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Smeghead
11-07-2013, 02:57 PM
I remember going and round and round with this argument years ago for one of my Airmen who didn't have a phone. Is there a written requirement to have a home or cell phone? I thought that's why we have actual directions to residences on recall rosters.

Here at Wackland I'm now getting bugged by a pop up on my computer mandating that I put in either a home phone or cell phone so that the command post can bug me with weather warnings and FPCON changes. I have friends who PCSd out of here six months ago and are still getting these notifications. Not real high of my list of things I want to do.

The system referenced 10-218 which doesn't exist on e-pubs. So where is it written that we MUST have a phone?

Juggs
11-07-2013, 03:00 PM
Put papa johns phone number.

Smeghead
11-07-2013, 03:02 PM
Put papa johns phone number.

I wish I had the number to Richard and Sal from the Stern Show.

Juggs
11-07-2013, 03:03 PM
I wish I had the number to Richard and Sal from the Stern Show.

Google has it. It give them a buddies number.

I got out a yr ago and I was getting those calls until about feb mar of last yr.

71Fish
11-07-2013, 03:14 PM
Just put down your work number.

Measure Man
11-07-2013, 03:18 PM
You really don't have a phone?

Or you just don't want to be found if the command post needs you because someone in your family or one of your Airmen was in a serious car crash?

The command post is not going to call you for FPCON changes, unless it is some serious shit....same thing with weather.

Most of the time, it is going to be for some personal/family emergency for you or your Airmen.

sandsjames
11-07-2013, 03:25 PM
Nope...no requirement...hell...you don't even have to have a home phone. I never had one...when I was on telephone standby, I stayed home. When I was on standby, I carried the shop standby phone...otherwise, if I was off, I was off.

SomeRandomGuy
11-07-2013, 03:32 PM
You really don't have a phone?

Or you just don't want to be found if the command post needs you because someone in your family or one of your Airmen was in a serious car crash?

The command post is not going to call you for FPCON changes, unless it is some serious shit....same thing with weather.

Most of the time, it is going to be for some personal/family emergency for you or your Airmen.

That is not true. Here at WPAFB I signed up for the emergency notification system. I wanted to recieve text messages when the base is closed. Now I constantly get weather warnings. They aren't the weather warnings I wanted though. They send out a warning that a "potnetial" for lightining within 5 exists then they send a text if lightning within 5 is observed then when there is no further danger they send an cancel warning message. They also do the same thing with the potential for winds greater than 25 Knots. One night during a thrunderstorm I woke up to 33 different text messages from the base. Now I actually sleep with my phone on silent so I can't get woken up by these annoying messages. On a positive note I can always cancel the subscription as long as I still have a CaC card and access to the system. It also terminates your subscription after 1 year if you do not login at least once during that year to update info.

Juggs
11-07-2013, 03:34 PM
You really don't have a phone?

Or you just don't want to be found if the command post needs you because someone in your family or one of your Airmen was in a serious car crash?

The command post is not going to call you for FPCON changes, unless it is some serious shit....same thing with weather.

Most of the time, it is going to be for some personal/family emergency for you or your Airmen.

I got dumb phone calls all the time from cp about stupid stuff. Besides if one of my Airmen are in a serious wreck it would be my CC, shirt, or supervisor calling me. Not command post.

jshiver15
11-07-2013, 03:57 PM
You really don't have a phone?

Or you just don't want to be found if the command post needs you because someone in your family or one of your Airmen was in a serious car crash?

The command post is not going to call you for FPCON changes, unless it is some serious shit....same thing with weather.

Most of the time, it is going to be for some personal/family emergency for you or your Airmen.

Sorry, but not at all true. IWWC notifications are automatically put out to anyone on the distro list. Calls to that distro list include each and every weather notification that goes out (ie IFR flying conditions, fog, thunderstorms, heavy rain, etc., etc.).

Measure Man
11-07-2013, 04:00 PM
That is not true. Here at WPAFB I signed up for the emergency notification system. I wanted to recieve text messages when the base is closed. Now I constantly get weather warnings. They aren't the weather warnings I wanted though. They send out a warning that a "potnetial" for lightining within 5 exists then they send a text if lightning within 5 is observed then when there is no further danger they send an cancel warning message. They also do the same thing with the potential for winds greater than 25 Knots. One night during a thrunderstorm I woke up to 33 different text messages from the base. Now I actually sleep with my phone on silent so I can't get woken up by these annoying messages. On a positive note I can always cancel the subscription as long as I still have a CaC card and access to the system. It also terminates your subscription after 1 year if you do not login at least once during that year to update info.


I got dumb phone calls all the time from cp about stupid stuff.

Wow...okay, guess I've been retired too long...I have never gotten anything like that from the command post. Every time I've ever been called by Command Post it has been for something pretty serious, and I was glad they had my number. See...this is why I don't post in the military threads so much anymore!


Besides if one of my Airmen are in a serious wreck it would be my CC, shirt, or supervisor calling me. Not command post.

Not necessarily. I've been called for stuff like that several times when they couldn't get a hold of the CC. But, I guess I was assuming you were a supervisor...so, okay.

Juggs
11-07-2013, 04:07 PM
I was a supervisor when I was in. When this stuff did happen, our CC, sup, or ncoic or OIC called us. Being a SSgt or TSgt if the cp is calling me then there are quite a few other folks that should've been called first.

Smeghead
11-07-2013, 04:20 PM
You really don't have a phone?

Or you just don't want to be found if the command post needs you because someone in your family or one of your Airmen was in a serious car crash?

The command post is not going to call you for FPCON changes, unless it is some serious shit....same thing with weather.

Most of the time, it is going to be for some personal/family emergency for you or your Airmen.

It's nothing to do with that. This is an automated system that calls and texts out weather warnings and crap. I'm Public Affairs, trust me, command post know how to get hold of me if they need to.

Smeghead
11-07-2013, 04:22 PM
That is not true. Here at WPAFB I signed up for the emergency notification system. I wanted to recieve text messages when the base is closed. Now I constantly get weather warnings. They aren't the weather warnings I wanted though. They send out a warning that a "potnetial" for lightining within 5 exists then they send a text if lightning within 5 is observed then when there is no further danger they send an cancel warning message. They also do the same thing with the potential for winds greater than 25 Knots. One night during a thrunderstorm I woke up to 33 different text messages from the base. Now I actually sleep with my phone on silent so I can't get woken up by these annoying messages. On a positive note I can always cancel the subscription as long as I still have a CaC card and access to the system. It also terminates your subscription after 1 year if you do not login at least once during that year to update info.

Yup, this is exactly why I don't want to put my number in. Spend any time at Lackland and you'll know how often we get lightning within 5 warnings.

Smeghead
11-07-2013, 04:26 PM
Nope...no requirement...hell...you don't even have to have a home phone. I never had one...when I was on telephone standby, I stayed home. When I was on standby, I carried the shop standby phone...otherwise, if I was off, I was off.

The argument I go into for my Airman was along the same lines. Squadron said he had to have a phone. I said if they're requiring it they'll have to provide it. Didn't hear much back afterward. Dumn thing was he lived in the dorms, there was a payphone two doors down from his room.

How did we ever make it through the first 50 years without cellphones?

Absinthe Anecdote
11-07-2013, 04:30 PM
Wow...okay, guess I've been retired too long...I have never gotten anything like that from the command post. Every time I've ever been called by Command Post it has been for something pretty serious, and I was glad they had my number. See...this is why I don't post in the military threads so much anymore!



Not necessarily. I've been called for stuff like that several times when they couldn't get a hold of the CC. But, I guess I was assuming you were a supervisor...so, okay.

Those automated weather alert systems are all the rage these days... All the colleges and universities use them. It might come in handy the next time some nut goes on a shooting spree.

In Maryland, they send out Tornado warnings over the entire cell phone system. You don't even have to sign up. It's part of the emergency broadcast system.

Rainmaker
11-07-2013, 04:30 PM
Any military member who doesn't answer a recall should be required to live in quonset hut on base for 6 months and sign in and out with CQ.
Sgt Carter never had to go looking for Pyle. NomSayin?

Measure Man
11-07-2013, 04:35 PM
Those automated weather alert systems are all the rage these days... All the colleges and universities use them. It might come in handy the next time some nut goes on a shooting spree.

In Maryland, they send out Tornado warnings over the entire cell phone system. You don't even have to sign up. It's part of the emergency broadcast system.

Okay, I give up.

:yield:yield:yield:yield:yield:yield:yield:yield:y ield:yield

Never saw it...don't know if they have it here where I'm at....I'm on the emer contact list for our company (that we give to command post)....but, of course we never have tornadoes--warnings or watches, hurricanes, lightning, typhoons, thunderstorms, or any of that nonsense, so maybe that's why.

Oh wait...here's one now: high tide, 8:34 am....surf's up, boys!

Smeghead
11-07-2013, 04:35 PM
Any military member who doesn't answer a recall should be required to live in quonset hut on base for 6 months and sign in and out with CQ.
Sgt Carter never had to go looking for Pyle. NomSayin?

Not. About. Recalls.

Nomsayin?

sandsjames
11-07-2013, 05:06 PM
The argument I go into for my Airman was along the same lines. Squadron said he had to have a phone. I said if they're requiring it they'll have to provide it. Didn't hear much back afterward. Dumn thing was he lived in the dorms, there was a payphone two doors down from his room.

How did we ever make it through the first 50 years without cellphones?

That's exactly right. Dorm residents, especially, don't need them. That's why people go knock on doors during recalls...and for all other purposes, if you want to make me available, put me on telephone standby...and they also have a map to my house.

Rainmaker
11-07-2013, 05:10 PM
Not. About. Recalls.

Nomsayin?

Skrait.

Koa1121
11-07-2013, 05:34 PM
Nothing I love more than getting a phone call at 11am while i'm trying to sleep after getting off at 4am, answering it, then realizing it's the stupid AETC notification system telling me that the base I PCS'd out of 11 months ago has gone into exercise FPCON Charlie..

Smeghead
11-07-2013, 05:37 PM
Nothing I love more than getting a phone call at 11am while i'm trying to sleep after getting off at 4am, answering it, then realizing it's the stupid AETC notification system telling me that the base I PCS'd out of 11 months ago has gone into exercise FPCON Charlie..

11 months? Damn, I didn't think you'd been gone that long.

technomage1
11-07-2013, 06:21 PM
They can't require you to have a personal phone or internet. These are not covered by the BAH calculations or utility allowance for overseas. They can issue you a phone, though.

I am very picky about my number being abused by the AF. It disappears from recall rosters etc if I start getting spam or stupid calls. One other option is to use a number blocker like mr. Number on the cell phone. It's free and works well to screen unwanted calls or messages.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-07-2013, 08:16 PM
They can't require you to have a personal phone or internet. These are not covered by the BAH calculations or utility allowance for overseas. They can issue you a phone, though.

I am very picky about my number being abused by the AF. It disappears from recall rosters etc if I start getting spam or stupid calls. One other option is to use a number blocker like mr. Number on the cell phone. It's free and works well to screen unwanted calls or messages.

That sounds like barracks lawyer advice to me. If a commander makes it policy that you can't move off-base unless you get a phone are you really going to waltz into his office and start talking about BAH calculations or utility allowances?

coloringoutsidethelines
11-07-2013, 08:20 PM
It's nothing to do with that. This is an automated system that calls and texts out weather warnings and crap. I'm Public Affairs, trust me, command post know how to get hold of me if they need to.

Ah a fellow corporate communicator, I got a ton of useless messages when I was in Alaska

Juggs
11-07-2013, 08:31 PM
That sounds like barracks lawyer advice to me. If a commander makes it policy that you can't move off-base unless you get a phone are you really going to waltz into his office and start talking about BAH calculations or utility allowances?

Barracks lawyer or good NCO?

Absinthe Anecdote
11-07-2013, 08:36 PM
Barracks lawyer or good NCO?

Barracks lawyer.

What responsible person doesn't have a phone? Especially, if you are in the military and subject to recalls and want to live off base.

Juggs
11-07-2013, 08:41 PM
We aren't talking about responsiblty. We are talking about whether you can be forced to purchase an item that isn't required by any AFI. Lawyer? I don't think so.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-07-2013, 08:56 PM
We aren't talking about responsiblty. We are talking about whether you can be forced to purchase an item that isn't required by any AFI. Lawyer? I don't think so.

A barracks lawyer is someone who gives bad advice and that sounds like some bullshit you'd hear in the smoke pit.

If your commander says you have to get a phone to live off base, then get a phone.

It might not appear in Air Force-level instructions but it can certainly be a local or unit-level policy.

In my opinion, responsible people in modern society have phones and cars. They don't sponge off other people or burden others to come knock on their door during a recall.

Juggs
11-07-2013, 08:59 PM
BSadvice? Nope, sounds like somebody saying facts. However, it's not a good idea, but is it not true that a CC can't force you to buy a phone? Much like they can't force you to buy a vehicle. You just have to be some where at a certain time. Doesn't matter how you get there.

Also, if they went with the policy of needing to have a phone to move off base they might have an IG complaint coming their way.

Oh and don't cuss. The mods my ban you for it. Not being a lawyer.

Rainmaker
11-07-2013, 09:35 PM
A barracks lawyer is someone who gives bad advice and that sounds like some bullshit you'd hear in the smoke pit.

If your commander says you have to get a phone to live off base, then get a phone.

It might not appear in Air Force-level instructions but it can certainly be a local or unit-level policy.

In my opinion, responsible people in modern society have phones and cars. They don't sponge off other people or burden others to come knock on their door during a recall.

You right Abs. It like that one time when Amfernee tolt Rainmaker that the Po-9 had to tell you they a cop workin undercover if you akskd them. That was some BAAADDD advice. NomSayin.

SomeRandomGuy
11-07-2013, 09:47 PM
You right Abs. It like that one time when Amfernee tolt Rainmaker that the Po-9 had to tell you they a cop workin undercover if you akskd them. That was some BAAADDD advice. NomSayin.

You have to ask 3 times. I think that is where you messed up.

technomage1
11-07-2013, 11:32 PM
That sounds like barracks lawyer advice to me. If a commander makes it policy that you can't move off-base unless you get a phone are you really going to waltz into his office and start talking about BAH calculations or utility allowances?


SNCOs have that prerogative, yes. In fact, I exercised mine recently when the shirt wanted me to recall a member off convalescent leave for a routine appointment. This is not what the AFI states. Easy win for techno, member stayed on leave. If you see something you know is wrong and could get the commander in hot water, why wouldn't you say something through your chain of command? Obviously, I wouldn't expect an Amn to say something to the CC directly but I would expect them to say something to an NCO, who should let the SNCO know what's going on.

No commander should be giving an order like that unless they're willing to pony up for the bill for a government issued cell phone. No where in any AFI that I know of is there a requirement to have a telephone, and I've looked. If anyone knows of one please post it. But you don't require people to buy things they need for work (unless you give them an allowance for it). Next I suppose you'll cave when told to drive your POV for work since the GOV is in the shop (his has been tried too).

I pick which battles I fight, but I will always seek to ensure my members are treated fairly and in accordance with the applicable regulations, as well as giving my officers the best advice I can.

Typically I find that when something like this is going on, it was not with the commanders knowledge or to his or her liking.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-08-2013, 12:07 AM
SNCOs have that prerogative, yes. In fact, I exercised mine recently when the shirt wanted me to recall a member off convalescent leave for a routine appointment. This is not what the AFI states. Easy win for techno, member stayed on leave. If you see something you know is wrong and could get the commander in hot water, why wouldn't you say something through your chain of command? Obviously, I wouldn't expect an Amn to say something to the CC directly but I would expect them to say something to an NCO, who should let the SNCO know what's going on.

No commander should be giving an order like that unless they're willing to pony up for the bill for a government issued cell phone. No where in any AFI that I know of is there a requirement to have a telephone, and I've looked. If anyone knows of one please post it. But you don't require people to buy things they need for work (unless you give them an allowance for it). Next I suppose you'll cave when told to drive your POV for work since the GOV is in the shop (his has been tried too).

I pick which battles I fight, but I will always seek to ensure my members are treated fairly and in accordance with the applicable regulations, as well as giving my officers the best advice I can.

Typically I find that when something like this is going on, it was not with the commanders knowledge or to his or her liking.

Now you are bringing up different issues and linking it to standing up for your troops.

We were talking about having a phone as a requirement to live off base. I wouldn't expect you to find that in an AFI, but a commander is within his rights to make that a unit-level policy.

Plus, having a phone isn't an undue expense and is far from unreasonable. The vast majority of people on the planet have them, even in impoverished countries!

As a matter of fact, if I found out that one of my troops didn't have a phone, I would view it as a red flag that something is possibly wrong with their finances and I'd be worried about them.

What if the troop has small children? I would view not having a phone as being irresponsible to their children.

Bickering about having a phone sounds extremely barracks lawyerish and nonsensical to me.

Get a damn phone so we don't have to come get your sorry ass during a recall.

Airborne
11-08-2013, 01:03 AM
I get the whole thing of if the government requires it they must provide it. And no cell phones arent directly calculated in BAH or BAS entitlements, but in order for the military to stay competitive you are compensated enough to to afford things like cars and televisions you are payed a wage to afford such things. When I see everyone 30 years old and below with their face buried in a phone then I call bullshit on the "I dont have a phone". I will say though that it can be harder to disconnect whenever your supervisor has a grand idea or continues to caveat and piggyback through text when Im trying to watch the game.

technomage1
11-08-2013, 01:05 AM
Now you are bringing up different issues and linking it to standing up for your troops.

We were talking about having a phone as a requirement to live off base. I wouldn't expect you to find that in an AFI, but a commander is within his rights to make that a unit-level policy.

Plus, having a phone isn't an undue expense and is far from unreasonable. The vast majority of people on the planet have them, even in impoverished countries!

As a matter of fact, if I found out that one of my troops didn't have a phone, I would view it as a red flag that something is possibly wrong with their finances and I'd be worried about them.

What if the troop has small children? I would view not having a phone as being irresponsible to their children.

Bickering about having a phone sounds extremely barracks lawyerish and nonsensical to me.

Get a damn phone so we don't have to come get your sorry ass during a recall.

You asked if I'd walk into the commanders office over this issue. I pointed out its my right as a SNCO to do so and gave an example of when I've done so.

You need to be contactable for a recall. That's it. It can mean a call, a visit, or smoke signals. If a troop doesn't want to have one, for whatever reason, that is no ones business but theirs. Your feelings about responsibility or financial security are irrelevant to the issue. You can recommend it for those reasons but not require it nor should you be rating your troops based on it.

I've seen so many attempted types of paperwork for recall issues. One supervisor tried to give an LOC to his troop for not carrying his personal cell phone. The troop wasn't on standby so that got squished quick. Another tried to issue paperwork because the troop wasn't home. Again, not on standby so squished quick. The point I'm making here is where do you draw the line? Do you require a phone? Then why not a cell phone? And, hey, I want to be able to email you too so make it a smart phone. Oh, and since cell phones can go down you need a landline too. I can't be inconvenienced to come knock on your door so you need to spend the money is really what your argument boils down to.

I've never heard or seen of a CC policy where you had to have a phone - unless it was issued. I don't think it would make it past the legal folks, or if they're worth their salt, the Chief. I have seen requirements to have a personal phone proposed and in every case shot down as it would require a troop to spend money they're not being reimbursed for for government business.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-08-2013, 03:15 AM
You asked if I'd walk into the commanders office over this issue. I pointed out its my right as a SNCO to do so and gave an example of when I've done so.

You need to be contactable for a recall. That's it. It can mean a call, a visit, or smoke signals. If a troop doesn't want to have one, for whatever reason, that is no ones business but theirs. Your feelings about responsibility or financial security are irrelevant to the issue. You can recommend it for those reasons but not require it nor should you be rating your troops based on it.

I've seen so many attempted types of paperwork for recall issues. One supervisor tried to give an LOC to his troop for not carrying his personal cell phone. The troop wasn't on standby so that got squished quick. Another tried to issue paperwork because the troop wasn't home. Again, not on standby so squished quick. The point I'm making here is where do you draw the line? Do you require a phone? Then why not a cell phone? And, hey, I want to be able to email you too so make it a smart phone. Oh, and since cell phones can go down you need a landline too. I can't be inconvenienced to come knock on your door so you need to spend the money is really what your argument boils down to.

I've never heard or seen of a CC policy where you had to have a phone - unless it was issued. I don't think it would make it past the legal folks, or if they're worth their salt, the Chief. I have seen requirements to have a personal phone proposed and in every case shot down as it would require a troop to spend money they're not being reimbursed for for government business.

I have to disagree with you on this.

A commander can make it a requirement to have a phone to move out of the barracks, especially overseas.

My personal opinion of someone who would create such a fuss about having to have a phone is that they are being difficult, stubborn, and unprofessional.

technomage1
11-08-2013, 03:19 AM
I get the whole thing of if the government requires it they must provide it. And no cell phones arent directly calculated in BAH or BAS entitlements, but in order for the military to stay competitive you are compensated enough to to afford things like cars and televisions you are payed a wage to afford such things. When I see everyone 30 years old and below with their face buried in a phone then I call bullshit on the "I dont have a phone". I will say though that it can be harder to disconnect whenever your supervisor has a grand idea or continues to caveat and piggyback through text when Im trying to watch the game.

The difference between cars and televisions is no one is proposing a requirement to have them. If they did it would be the same principle. Pay me for it. In a similar vein, this is why it took so long for CDCs to go electronic and why the PDG is still a paper copy - it was because the government could not require you to have a home computer. Yes, most people do - but its not paid for by the government so they can't make you have it.

I didn't have a phone when I lived the barracks years ago and I didn't have one in several overseas garrison locations. I used a pay phone and a phone card to make any needed calls. So it does happen. Even if you assume a landline phone is $25 a month (a low cost) that adds up to $6K over the course of a 20 year career, so it does add up to quite a bit of money out of pocket.

Cell phones add another wrinkle to the equation as I noted in my example above with supervisors trying to burn troops for not carrying a personal cell all the time. Even if you have one, you're not required to carry it unless you are notified you are on a standby.

You have to be very careful when you're talking about compensation and what you're willing to pay out of your base pay as not everyone is willing or able to do that. As an example, I once spent around $200 on ballistic glasses and prescription inserts for a deployment. My unit issued me over the glasses googles that I hated. So I chose to spend money out of pocket for something that suited me better. It was my choice. I would've cried foul if that wasn't the case and they were just trying to stick me with the cost. Also keep in mind our base pay is calculated with all the allowances, etc factored in. We've lost pay raises in the past due to this fact.

technomage1
11-08-2013, 03:31 AM
I have to disagree with you on this.

A commander can make it a requirement to have a phone to move out of the barracks, especially overseas.

My personal opinion of someone who would create such a fuss about having to have a phone is that they are being difficult, stubborn, and unprofessional.

In case I was unclear - I've seen it tried before and shot down every time at the unit level. I myself have lived in several overseas locations without a personal phone downtown. Not a darn thing happened to me. No one said boo about it. If I needed a phone for duty I was always issued one.

You're creating a "requirement" in your head that doesn't exist and that would cost people money out of pocket. Pointing that out and ensuring someone at unit level doesn't get the CC into hot water by their actions such as this is what SNCOs do.

Look, if you don't believe me I suggest you ask your senior enlisted leadership their opinion on the matter. As I noted to Airborne, you have to be really careful when you're talking about compensation and what you are personally willing to pay for out of it.

BRUWIN
11-08-2013, 03:44 AM
Maintenance always had a good policy on this issue. For weekend standby, if you had a phone and there was no immediate work you were on telephone standby for the rest of the weekend. If you didn't have a phone you came into work until the maintenance control released you. You came in both Saturday and Sunday...there was no comp time for it either. Needless to say...maintenance guys all had telephones.

technomage1
11-08-2013, 04:09 AM
Maintenance always had a good policy on this issue. For weekend standby, if you had a phone and there was no immediate work you were on telephone standby for the rest of the weekend. If you didn't have a phone you came into work until the maintenance control released you. You came in both Saturday and Sunday...there was no comp time for it either. Needless to say...maintenance guys all had telephones.

CE always issues phones for standby. Always. It doesn't matter if you have a cell or not and are OK with using or not. The reason being the electrical standby phone number is always the same and everyone (command post, fire dept, supers, other standby shops) already has it. It would be a nightmare trying to update everyone's number every week. Before that it was pagers. Before that I wasn't in the service so I couldn't tell you.

BRUWIN
11-08-2013, 04:49 AM
CE always issues phones for standby. Always. It doesn't matter if you have a cell or not and are OK with using or not. The reason being the electrical standby phone number is always the same and everyone (command post, fire dept, supers, other standby shops) already has it. It would be a nightmare trying to update everyone's number every week. Before that it was pagers. Before that I wasn't in the service so I couldn't tell you.

My maintenance example was before the use of cell phones. Back then it was widely known by CCs that they couldn't force someone to get a phone. However, my point of the post was that there are several ways to screw people that won't get a phone and may possibly convince them that maybe it's in the best interest to get one. And lets face it...all Airmen have phones. Whether they want to fess up the phone number is another matter. I for one would have no problems developing situations that may help them want to fess that phone number up.

technomage1
11-08-2013, 05:48 AM
My maintenance example was before the use of cell phones. Back then it was widely known by CCs that they couldn't force someone to get a phone. However, my point of the post was that there are several ways to screw people that won't get a phone and may possibly convince them that maybe it's in the best interest to get one. And lets face it...all Airmen have phones. Whether they want to fess up the phone number is another matter. I for one would have no problems developing situations that may help them want to fess that phone number up.

A choice was given in your example. A crappy choice, but a choice nonetheless. However, as you note (bolded) you can't force it. I can only speak from my experience but I didn't have a phone, cell or otherwise, at an overseas base as recently as 2011. It was never an issue and no one said anything to me about it. The few recalls we had my nearest neighbor stopped by to let me know on their way in. I still always made it in plenty of time.

There is a big difference between "encouraging" and "forcing", is my point. The original proposition was that a CC could have a policy requiring a telephone. That's just not true. And there is also a big difference between standby and recall, which is what we were originally discussing.

MaintChief
11-08-2013, 09:04 AM
A barracks lawyer is someone who gives bad advice and that sounds like some bullshit you'd hear in the smoke pit.

If your commander says you have to get a phone to live off base, then get a phone.

It might not appear in Air Force-level instructions but it can certainly be a local or unit-level policy.

In my opinion, responsible people in modern society have phones and cars. They don't sponge off other people or burden others to come knock on their door during a recall.

I'm not a barracks lawyer, but I WAS a CMSgt with 30 years AD before I retired 2 years ago. You CAN'T be made to have a personal phone. If the USAF wants you to have one, they need to either issue it or pay for it. You are pretty confused as to a commanders authority. I'd do some research or talk to the JAG before you get yourself in a sling. As for your opinions about cars and phones...you do know what they say about opinions, right?

And I'm with Bruin...I did the EXACT same thing with weekend duty...no, I can't make you have a telephone, but I can make you show up for duty until released by competent authority.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-08-2013, 09:09 AM
I'm not a barracks lawyer, but I WAS a CMSgt with 30 years AD before I retired 2 years ago. You CAN'T be made to have a personal phone. If the USAF wants you to have one, they need to either issue it or pay for it. You are pretty confused as to a commanders authority. I'd do some research or talk to the JAG before you get yourself in a sling. As for your opinions about cars and phones...you do know what they say about opinions, right?

And I'm with Bruin...I did the EXACT same thing with weekend duty...no, I can't make you have a telephone, but I can make you show up for duty until released by competent authority.

The commander can simply deny your request to move out of the barracks.

MaintChief
11-08-2013, 09:27 AM
It might not appear in Air Force-level instructions but it can certainly be a local or unit-level policy.



Really? Upon WHAT legal basis? The commander says so? Does not work that way.

MaintChief
11-08-2013, 09:32 AM
The commander can simply deny your request to move out of the barracks.
Uh huh. Are you familiar with USAF dormitory policy as regards junior Airmen? What is the purpose of the dormitory and who can be made to live there? Unless things have drastically changed since I retired, the question is moot when it comes to SrA with more than 3 years TOS. Junior Airmen are REQUIRED to live in the dorms until a certain occupancy level is reached, and then the most senior by date of rank are offered the opportunity to move out of the dorms. Once making SSgt, they are kicked out of the dorms. Try again.

Oh, the unaccompanied housing AFI is AFI32-6005.

Smeghead
11-08-2013, 11:59 AM
Get a damn phone so we don't have to come get your sorry ass during a recall.

Show the damn reference that says it's required. The question wasn't about your opinion on responsibility.

Smeghead
11-08-2013, 12:12 PM
The commander can simply deny your request to move out of the barracks.

:deadhorse It's okay to admit you're wrong sometimes. Really, you can do it.

But people stating their "opinions" and "how it should bes" like you are, are what keep arguments like this going around. It's been over 10 years since I last had this discussion and I'm seeing the same groundless arguments again.

If anything, stating this stuff as fact with no reference to back it up, or that it's what you think, is making you the barracks lawyer in this discussion. That being said, do you have any advice on how my to upgrade my dishonorable discharge to an honorable?

sandsjames
11-08-2013, 12:34 PM
Now you are bringing up different issues and linking it to standing up for your troops.

We were talking about having a phone as a requirement to live off base. I wouldn't expect you to find that in an AFI, but a commander is within his rights to make that a unit-level policy.

Plus, having a phone isn't an undue expense and is far from unreasonable. The vast majority of people on the planet have them, even in impoverished countries!

As a matter of fact, if I found out that one of my troops didn't have a phone, I would view it as a red flag that something is possibly wrong with their finances and I'd be worried about them.

What if the troop has small children? I would view not having a phone as being irresponsible to their children.

Bickering about having a phone sounds extremely barracks lawyerish and nonsensical to me.

Get a damn phone so we don't have to come get your sorry ass during a recall.

Not having a phone, with kids, is irresponsible? So all parents were irresponsible 'til 15 years ago, I guess. I don't understand how this is relevant or carries any truth at all.

And the cost is a big deal to a lot of people. Requiring someone to have a phone, an extra expense, sounds like irresponsible supervision.

Now, I'll agree that the commander could do certain things, as mentioned, to "encourage" people carrying a phone. However, unless that happens, then there are two things that ARE required. One, a person must be able to be contacted when on shop standby. Two, a person must be able to be contacted while on telephone standby. That's why Shirts and Commander's, etc, are provided phones. Because their jobs require being able to be contacted 24/7. Others do not.

Monkey
11-08-2013, 01:06 PM
Not having a phone, with kids, is irresponsible? So all parents were irresponsible 'til 15 years ago, I guess. I don't understand how this is relevant or carries any truth at all.

And the cost is a big deal to a lot of people. Requiring someone to have a phone, an extra expense, sounds like irresponsible supervision.

Now, I'll agree that the commander could do certain things, as mentioned, to "encourage" people carrying a phone. However, unless that happens, then there are two things that ARE required. One, a person must be able to be contacted when on shop standby. Two, a person must be able to be contacted while on telephone standby. That's why Shirts and Commander's, etc, are provided phones. Because their jobs require being able to be contacted 24/7. Others do not.

Completely irrelevant to the OP, but...

If you have the resources to fund it, not having ready access (a phone) to contact Emergency Services when you have small children isn't exactly looking out for their best interests. I'm not saying that it has to be a cell phone, but a home phone would be an advisable option.

If that cost is overwhelming, then maybe that member needs to choose to live on base where it is a little easier to balance your budget.

And to address the OP, there is nothing in any AFI that directs you to own a phone. There is nothing in any AFI that directs you to own a car either.

Smeghead
11-08-2013, 01:28 PM
Alright, so we've answered the "Is it required by AFI to have a phone?" question. So in my specific scenario, if you can't require a member to have a phone, can you make it mandatory for those who do own phones to enter it into an alert system? This is not about recall rosters, or the orderly room having my contact info. This is a completely separate system that AETC runs.

Bruwin, weren't you command post?

akruse
11-08-2013, 01:31 PM
Alright, so we've answered the "Is it required by AFI to have a phone?" question. So in my specific scenario, if you can't require a member to have a phone, can you make it mandatory for those who do own phones to enter it into an alert system? This is not about recall rosters, or the orderly room having my contact info. This is a completely separate system that AETC runs.

Bruwin, weren't you command post?

Bruwin was a nonner

sandsjames
11-08-2013, 01:52 PM
Completely irrelevant to the OP, but...

If you have the resources to fund it, not having ready access (a phone) to contact Emergency Services when you have small children isn't exactly looking out for their best interests. I'm not saying that it has to be a cell phone, but a home phone would be an advisable option.

If that cost is overwhelming, then maybe that member needs to choose to live on base where it is a little easier to balance your budget.

And to address the OP, there is nothing in any AFI that directs you to own a phone. There is nothing in any AFI that directs you to own a car either.

We'll agree to disagree...you're in a freakin profession where you leave your family for 6-15 months at a time and aren't there for them growing up. Not sure that would be considered in their best interest by many.

USN - Retired
11-08-2013, 02:29 PM
...you're in a freakin profession where you leave your family for 6-15 months at a time and aren't there for them growing up. .

Is that a problem? If it is, then why did you stay in the military? You were not drafted into the military.

sandsjames
11-08-2013, 03:09 PM
Is that a problem? If it is, then why did you stay in the military? You were not drafted into the military.

Not saying it's a problem, if that's the choice you make. Just saying that is irresponsible to not have a cell phone with kids when you are making the choice to have your kids grow up with one parent is pretty ridiculous.

edit: Plus, I didn't have kids...

BRUWIN
11-08-2013, 03:15 PM
Bruwin was a nonner

INSULT INSULT!!!!! My feelings are being trampled on and I'm gonna tell the moderators!

BRUWIN
11-08-2013, 03:17 PM
Alright, so we've answered the "Is it required by AFI to have a phone?" question. So in my specific scenario, if you can't require a member to have a phone, can you make it mandatory for those who do own phones to enter it into an alert system? This is not about recall rosters, or the orderly room having my contact info. This is a completely separate system that AETC runs.

Bruwin, weren't you command post?

I was intel.

BRUWIN
11-08-2013, 03:19 PM
Get a damn phone so we don't have to come get your sorry ass during a recall.

I do have to agree with you here. I don't know why stuff has to be in an AFI for someone to act responsibly.

Smeghead
11-08-2013, 03:21 PM
I was intel.

Sorry. Maybe it was Crusty I was thinking of.

p.s. Now that I work with your Intel folks, it all begins to make sense ...

BRUWIN
11-08-2013, 03:25 PM
Sorry. Maybe it was Crusty I was thinking of.

p.s. Now that I work with your Intel folks, it all begins to make sense ...

PASSIVE AGGRESSSIVE???? I'm telling the moderators!!

Kicker47
11-08-2013, 03:26 PM
I am a happy Tracfone cell phone owner and user. My phone does two things: makes telephone calls and basic texts. I had put my number on the emergency notification thing, but I never received any messages.

Do they send them out in a format that a "non-smartphone" can't receive?

Smeghead
11-08-2013, 03:31 PM
I am a happy Tracfone cell phone owner and user. My phone does two things: makes telephone calls and basic texts. I had put my number on the emergency notification thing, but I never received any messages.

Do they send them out in a format that a "non-smartphone" can't receive?

Group messages are sometimes sent as multimedia messages. Maybe that's why.

Speaking of Tracfones, a guy I used to work with always had one and took crap for being a cheap ass. One night someone in the squadron mass texted a picture of her breasts (trust me, you didn't want to see them). It was the one time he was glad he couldn't receive picture messages.

Kicker47
11-08-2013, 03:34 PM
Group messages are sometimes sent as multimedia messages. Maybe that's why.

Speaking of Tracfones, a guy I used to work with always had one and took crap for being a cheap ass. One night someone in the squadron mass texted a picture of her breasts (trust me, you didn't want to see them). It was the one time he was glad he couldn't receive picture messages.

I'll tell you what...make fun of me all you want, but I pay about $40 every three months for two cell phones. Also, after the May 20th Tornado here in Moore, OK, almost everyone with a "smartphone" couldn't get a signal, yet my Tracfone worked just fine...people were lining up to borrow my phone to let their families know they were ok and where they were.

BRUWIN
11-08-2013, 03:41 PM
I am a happy Tracfone cell phone owner and user. My phone does two things: makes telephone calls and basic texts. I had put my number on the emergency notification thing, but I never received any messages.



That wouldn't work...I need an airmen that can pull up attachments so you would have to have a smart phone. If you didn't I would make sure you bought one.

Kicker47
11-08-2013, 03:51 PM
That wouldn't work...I need an airmen that can pull up attachments so you would have to have a smart phone. If you didn't I would make sure you bought one.

You could send me a text and e-mail me the attachment. The text would be telling me to go check my e-mail. I will then take a taxi to the library and use their computer to check my e-mail and read your attachments...

:happy

BRUWIN
11-08-2013, 04:08 PM
You could send me a text and e-mail me the attachment. The text would be telling me to go check my e-mail. I will then take a taxi to the library and use their computer to check my e-mail and read your attachments...

:happy

That won't do. I work at HQ and I'm sending the attachment as part of a tasker I have been sitting on for two weeks. It's now Friday, 1400hrs, and I need the tasker answered by 1500hrs so I have some time to ask dumb questions before I meet the 1600hrs tasker deadline. I will not extend the deadline even though the tasker won't be looked at until Monday because I want a restful weekend knowing all my work is done so I can work on my SNCO of the year package and go to the wine fest afterwards. You will get a smart phone.

Kicker47
11-08-2013, 04:15 PM
That won't do. I work at HQ and I'm sending the attachment as part of a tasker I have been sitting on for two weeks. It's now Friday, 1400hrs, and I need the tasker answered by 1500hrs so I have some time to ask dumb questions before I meet the 1600hrs tasker deadline. I will not extend the deadline even though the tasker won't be looked at until Monday because I want a restful weekend knowing all my work is done so I can work on my SNCO of the year package and go to the wine fest afterwards. You will get a smart phone.

Sorry...I'm at PT from 1400-1600 every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday...I don't carry my phone on the track with me, as this could create an unsafe condition for other runners...

Gonzo432
11-08-2013, 04:19 PM
That won't do. I work at HQ and I'm sending the attachment as part of a tasker I have been sitting on for two weeks. It's now Friday, 1400hrs, and I need the tasker answered by 1500hrs so I have some time to ask dumb questions before I meet the 1600hrs tasker deadline. I will not extend the deadline even though the tasker won't be looked at until Monday because I want a restful weekend knowing all my work is done so I can work on my SNCO of the year package and go to the wine fest afterwards. You will get a smart phone.

Ah, I always wondered who did that. It's you!!

BRUWIN
11-08-2013, 04:27 PM
Sorry...I'm at PT from 1400-1600 every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday...I don't carry my phone on the track with me, as this could create an unsafe condition for other runners...

OK...PT overrides everything. I go to the director and tell him my tasker will be late because of PT. I get a three week extension and I'm told great work ensuring that PT is given proper priority. Meanwhile...the suspect grenades will remain in the possession of unsuspecting warfighters.

giggawatt
11-08-2013, 06:40 PM
That won't do. I work at HQ and I'm sending the attachment as part of a tasker I have been sitting on for two weeks. It's now Friday, 1400hrs, and I need the tasker answered by 1500hrs so I have some time to ask dumb questions before I meet the 1600hrs tasker deadline. I will not extend the deadline even though the tasker won't be looked at until Monday because I want a restful weekend knowing all my work is done so I can work on my SNCO of the year package and go to the wine fest afterwards. You will get a smart phone.

I freakin love this! Too much real life!

BRUWIN
11-08-2013, 06:58 PM
I freakin love this! Too much real life!

I speak from experience...I've been on the receiving end of this sudden panic and I was on the staff (USAFE). When I questioned why it could wait until Monday morning I found out the individual responsible for sitting on it was indeed headed to a wine fest. I didn't jump through hoops though...it was done the Monday after I talked to his bosses.

20+Years
11-08-2013, 07:05 PM
If you love the United States you will get a cellphone.

If you cannot afford one, Obama will appoint one to you.

PburghNo1
11-08-2013, 07:29 PM
If you love the United States you will get a cellphone.

If you cannot afford one, Obama will appoint one to you.

Or Reagan or Clinton or Bush 41/43.....seeing as the program started in 1984...

technomage1
11-08-2013, 09:54 PM
I do have to agree with you here. I don't know why stuff has to be in an AFI for someone to act responsibly.

Now here is where we disagree. CE has recalls, on average, 2 times a year. Some units and locations do more but that is the average I've seen. Now on a 2 year tour I will be deployed for around 8 months for training and the actual length of the deployment. So I might get recalled 2-3 times during a tour. Considering I do not use a phone for anything else, and phones cost around $25 a month for local service, and the fact I like to live close to base, why should I spend $600 out of pocket? The last time I didn't have one it literally took 5 minutes for someone to come knock on my door -which happened once.

I would feel differently if someone chose to live a considerable distance from base, or we had weekend duty like you described. Then I would say that was an unfair burden on others (and be concerned they wouldn't meet the reporting time goals for the unit). But folks who live on or near base I don't think that should be an issue.

Most places I do have a phone, it really depends on the location, but some places I've chosen not to. I don't feel that during those times it was irresponsible in the least,

Absinthe Anecdote
11-10-2013, 06:51 PM
:deadhorse It's okay to admit you're wrong sometimes. Really, you can do it.

But people stating their "opinions" and "how it should bes" like you are, are what keep arguments like this going around. It's been over 10 years since I last had this discussion and I'm seeing the same groundless arguments again.

If anything, stating this stuff as fact with no reference to back it up, or that it's what you think, is making you the barracks lawyer in this discussion. That being said, do you have any advice on how my to upgrade my dishonorable discharge to an honorable?

No, it sucks being wrong and I don't like it one little bit!

I'm still holding on to the opinion that that refusing to get a phone, especially for a career airman, indicates one of three things:

1) a desire to avoid being contacted for alerts/recalls

2) a level of tight-waddedness, that I'll never understand

3) Financial irresponsibility/mismanagement to meet a common every day expense

Also, if you have a spouse and small kids back at the house, leaving them without a phone in the event of an emergency is a gigantic shitbag move and is irresponsible in my book.

garhkal
11-10-2013, 10:12 PM
I am very picky about my number being abused by the AF. It disappears from recall rosters etc if I start getting spam or stupid calls. One other option is to use a number blocker like mr. Number on the cell phone. It's free and works well to screen unwanted calls or messages.

That's an argument i have heard several in the Navy use to not put their #s down in command recall rosters, cause they kept getting spammed and the like. BUT the Navy at least does require at least a home phone# as part of your recall info.. What irks me off is they have a command roster, a department roster (same info, maybe a little more), division roster with same info and more, and at times a Shop roster...
ALL have the same #s..


A commander can make it a requirement to have a phone to move out of the barracks, especially overseas.

Yup. My first duty station in England had that requirement. Our Base CO had it in writing that for all personnel wishing to live off base either a land line OR cell phone # was required..

technomage1
11-11-2013, 10:25 AM
That's an argument i have heard several in the Navy use to not put their #s down in command recall rosters, cause they kept getting spammed and the like. BUT the Navy at least does require at least a home phone# as part of your recall info.. What irks me off is they have a command roster, a department roster (same info, maybe a little more), division roster with same info and more, and at times a Shop roster...
ALL have the same #s..


Yup. My first duty station in England had that requirement. Our Base CO had it in writing that for all personnel wishing to live off base either a land line OR cell phone # was required..

Shrug. All I can tell you is in the AF that's never flown anywhere I've ever been. When I was a single NCO I had to live downtown, I didn't have a choice. So what are you going to do with a person with 5000lbs of stuff, put them in a dorm room and store it or let the issue drop?

I completely disagree that forcing someone to spend $12000 (I actually miscalculated earlier when I said $6k) out of pocket is a just thing to do. ($25 per month x 12 months x 20 years). It may not seem like much but it does add up.

Most squadrons don't abuse it, I've only pulled it off twice in my career. Once we had a crap ton - I'm talking several a week here - of informational recalls about stupid crap. The other they kept on giving out my number to people who would call into the office. Nope, it's not a government phone, it's mine. I asked them twice to stop, they didn't, number gone. My sup had my number as did everyone else in my chain so recalls it was not a problem.

I'm also about ready to go ask the clinic to stop calling me with those darn appointment reminder calls. The always call during supper and you can't hang up or just buzz through your conformation. I know I have an appointment, I made it.

BOSS302
11-11-2013, 11:41 AM
If you're in Europe - UK, specifically - you can spend $15 equivalent for a cheap "pay as you go" phone, spend another $15 equivalent to put about thirty minutes on the SIM card, and that's that. Drop the SOB on your nightstand with the charger perpetually plugged in to it and you're good to go.

That's $30. I've known people who spend more in a week at the Starbucks on base or spend more in half a night's worth of drinking. Personally I would not make an airman of mine get a phone; I'd just let their stupidity display itself. Or I'd be happy to explain their stupidity to others ("Yes, he refuses to get a phone because the AFI Monster hasn't told him to. He's an idiot.")

BOSS302
11-11-2013, 11:44 AM
OK...PT overrides everything. I go to the director and tell him my tasker will be late because of PT. I get a three week extension and I'm told great work ensuring that PT is given proper priority. Meanwhile...the suspect grenades will remain in the possession of unsuspecting warfighters.

You don't do PT. You're obese.

Chief_KO
11-11-2013, 01:00 PM
Osan circa 1994, TSgt_KO desired to move off base. Paperwork included a place for listing the telephone number. Yes it was required.
Back in the day when everyone had to clear through base housing before living off base the "mandate" for a telephone number was there.
I will say that answering machines, voicemail, and caller ID are wonderful things to screen out the BS calls...

BOSS302
11-11-2013, 01:50 PM
Osan circa 1994, TSgt_KO desired to move off base. Paperwork included a place for listing the telephone number. Yes it was required.
Back in the day when everyone had to clear through base housing before living off base the "mandate" for a telephone number was there.
I will say that answering machines, voicemail, and caller ID are wonderful things to screen out the BS calls...

With most "smart" phones today, you can program them to accept only certain numbers & auto-reject all others.

ConfusedAirman
11-11-2013, 06:51 PM
I can't see what the big deal is about giving your phone number to your unit as it saves you the hassle of hearing BS threats from your leadership. They ask, you give it and go about your business. But nothing says you must have the phone available at all times. Screen your calls and don't answer if you were never told you were on telephone standby. If you give a landline and get a call for a no-notice recall, just show up at work for your next scheduled work period and say you stayed at a friend's house. If you give a cell, just say you left it at home or the battery died. Sure, your leadership may not like it and may think you are lying, but let them prove it.

Juggs
11-11-2013, 07:27 PM
I can't see what the big deal is about giving your phone number to your unit as it saves you the hassle of hearing BS threats from your leadership. They ask, you give it and go about your business. But nothing says you must have the phone available at all times. Screen your calls and don't answer if you were never told you were on telephone standby. If you give a landline and get a call for a no-notice recall, just show up at work for your next scheduled work period and say you stayed at a friend's house. If you give a cell, just say you left it at home or the battery died. Sure, your leadership may not like it and may think you are lying, but let them prove it.

The unit has my home phone, my boss and my troop and anybody trustworthy has my cell. That's how I rolled.

Smeghead
11-11-2013, 07:41 PM
I know schools have now stopped teaching cursive, but when did reading comprehension go the way of the dodo?

Absinthe Anecdote
11-11-2013, 11:56 PM
I know schools have now stopped teaching cursive, but when did reading comprehension go the way of the dodo?

I don't understand.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-11-2013, 11:59 PM
Osan circa 1994, TSgt_KO desired to move off base. Paperwork included a place for listing the telephone number. Yes it was required.
Back in the day when everyone had to clear through base housing before living off base the "mandate" for a telephone number was there.
I will say that answering machines, voicemail, and caller ID are wonderful things to screen out the BS calls...

I saw the same thing at Osan 1999-2000 and at the SAC bases in the 1980s it was definitely that way.

Sarkile
11-12-2013, 03:41 AM
Bruwin was a nonner
Right, but then he cross-trained out of maintenance. Right?

BRUWIN
11-12-2013, 06:28 PM
Right, but then he cross-trained out of maintenance. Right?

Yes...after 16 years. I left my diapers, pacifier, and snuggy blanket at the hanger on my way out the door. Been wearing big boy pants ever since.

SomeRandomGuy
11-12-2013, 06:38 PM
I can't see what the big deal is about giving your phone number to your unit as it saves you the hassle of hearing BS threats from your leadership. They ask, you give it and go about your business. But nothing says you must have the phone available at all times. Screen your calls and don't answer if you were never told you were on telephone standby. If you give a landline and get a call for a no-notice recall, just show up at work for your next scheduled work period and say you stayed at a friend's house. If you give a cell, just say you left it at home or the battery died. Sure, your leadership may not like it and may think you are lying, but let them prove it.

I have pulled this move off before. At one unit we always had recalls at like 0530 when we normally would be reporting at 0730. I would normally just sleep through the call. At about 0630 I would respond that I got the message and I was on my way. I would then stroll in at around 0715. One time the commander got pissed at said we would keep having recalls until we could "get it right" thatw as fine with me. I kept doing the same thing anyways. Eventually, we started getting worse instead of better because other people started to catch on to the system. The bottom line is recalls are stupid. In today's world if a major incident happens you are going to hear about it on the news probably long before you get a recall message. Also It is extremely rare for a unit to deploy on less than 24 hours notice. Why do we train like we actually have that capability when in reality we do not?

Rainmaker
11-12-2013, 08:04 PM
I know schools have now stopped teaching cursive, but when did reading comprehension go the way of the dodo?

It were arount the time they start putting letters in Maff.

DWWSWWD
11-12-2013, 08:41 PM
It is extremely rare for a unit to deploy on less than 24 hours notice. Why do we train like we actually have that capability when in reality we do not?

Rare, yes. I have been in two units where our string was much shorter than that. If you are in one, you know it and if you get the call, (everyone in the command carried pagers) you know you need to get your ass to work and probably wouldn't be home for a good while. Other than that, I never really got the recall thing. My boss asked me to run a com out recall a couple of years ago. Make sure everyone had maps to their houses uploaded, priorities, routes etc. I said, "Really, boss? Let's not." It wasn't that kind of place. In Guam we did it because it was very likely that we would lose power to everything including cell towers. Should be situational. Haven't seen a recall in a few years now.

imported_KnuckleDragger
11-12-2013, 11:20 PM
As demonstrated in this thread...if you give people an inch, they will take a mile. Follow the rules of your applicable unit. I have no problem with occasional recalls.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-12-2013, 11:21 PM
Right, but then he cross-trained out of maintenance. Right?

He was a tech school rope his entire career. The only career rope the Air Force ever had for that matter. I'm not talking about those blue rope STAs either, he was a yellow rope his entire career, impressive when you think about it.

garhkal
11-13-2013, 04:47 AM
I have pulled this move off before. At one unit we always had recalls at like 0530 when we normally would be reporting at 0730. I would normally just sleep through the call. At about 0630 I would respond that I got the message and I was on my way. I would then stroll in at around 0715. One time the commander got pissed at said we would keep having recalls until we could "get it right" thatw as fine with me. I kept doing the same thing anyways. Eventually, we started getting worse instead of better because other people started to catch on to the system. The bottom line is recalls are stupid. In today's world if a major incident happens you are going to hear about it on the news probably long before you get a recall message. Also It is extremely rare for a unit to deploy on less than 24 hours notice. Why do we train like we actually have that capability when in reality we do not?

Deploy maybe. But recalls are often used for more than just 'deploying'.
When i worked with Naval Support activity Bahrain, recalls were used to alert everyone when the command shifted to FPCON charlie or delta, especially the latter as it prompted a recall of everyone that was needed back to base. When i worked in the Seabees or was stationed overseas in guam, they were used when "Nasty weather" had just passed to check on everyone.

RetC141BFCC
11-13-2013, 05:17 PM
Maintenance always had a good policy on this issue. For weekend standby, if you had a phone and there was no immediate work you were on telephone standby for the rest of the weekend. If you didn't have a phone you came into work until the maintenance control released you. You came in both Saturday and Sunday...there was no comp time for it either. Needless to say...maintenance guys all had telephones.
This is the main reason why I hated working in the fighter world. Weekend standby. When I worked for Mother MAC or AMC we had the manning for a 24 hour 365 day a year schedule. How many of my maintenance brothers and sister worked all weekend 12 hour shifts just so planning did not have to change a schedule. It looks bad for stats. In the fighter world it was all about the stats how many sorties you can fly does not matter if you broke the enlisted force to do it just how many did training sorties did you fly so the wing King could get promoted. My answer to the 12 hour shifts on the weekend was change the Dam schedule. Ok Rant over but I do believe you should have a cell phone. To this day I am one of the few you will see who stills use a flip phone. If were you work does weekend standby and you are too cheap to buy a cell phone I agree bring your ASS to work until realised. Even then you have to go sit home or in the Barracks all weekend. T-Mobile will sell you a phone with no contract and 1500 minutes a month for 30 bucks a month. Shit I use to spend that much and more in the Bar on Fridays

Measure Man
11-13-2013, 05:24 PM
To this day I am one of the few you will see who stills use a flip phone.

I had a smart phone, but turned it off and went back to a flip phone...I love it.

Bunch
11-13-2013, 05:31 PM
I had a smart phone, but turned it off and went back to a flip phone...I love it.

I don't think I could ever go back to a dumb phone...

Absinthe Anecdote
11-13-2013, 07:06 PM
I had a smart phone, but turned it off and went back to a flip phone...I love it.

You should try the Jitterbug :-)

It doesn't have all those confusing functions and has big easy to read numbers; also, if you fall in the shower and break your hip, all you have to do is start screaming, "I've fallen and can't get up!" and it will call the fire department for you.

http://easylivingprogram.vestaforyou.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/jitterbug_senior_citizen_cell_phone.jpg

Hoo-huh???
11-14-2013, 06:09 AM
I didn't have time to read the whole thread to see if the OP's question was really answered. I do know that an instruction exists that states you are required to have a working phone number. The reason I know this is because we had a Chief try to force everyone to get local phone numbers by a certain date. I knew this did not sound right so I started digging through AFIs & told my Airmen not to change their numbers. Once I couldn't find anything I contacted the IG & they gave me the AFI (Sorry I don't remember the AFI due to this happening over 5 years ago). When the date came to have our numbers changed the Chief did nothing... If you really want the AFI contact your IG.

RetC141BFCC
11-15-2013, 04:50 PM
You should try the Jitterbug :-)

It doesn't have all those confusing functions and has big easy to read numbers; also, if you fall in the shower and break your hip, all you have to do is start screaming, "I've fallen and can't get up!" and it will call the fire department for you.

http://easylivingprogram.vestaforyou.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/jitterbug_senior_citizen_cell_phone.jpg

Hey were did you get my picture from?

SomeRandomGuy
11-15-2013, 06:07 PM
I didn't have time to read the whole thread to see if the OP's question was really answered. I do know that an instruction exists that states you are required to have a working phone number. The reason I know this is because we had a Chief try to force everyone to get local phone numbers by a certain date. I knew this did not sound right so I started digging through AFIs & told my Airmen not to change their numbers. Once I couldn't find anything I contacted the IG & they gave me the AFI (Sorry I don't remember the AFI due to this happening over 5 years ago). When the date came to have our numbers changed the Chief did nothing... If you really want the AFI contact your IG.

Wait....You are saying there is an AFI that specifies everyone has to have a "local" number? I highly doubt that. Officers PCS every two years. Do you really think an officer would sign off on an AFI that makes him change his number every 2 years so that he has a local area code?

Juggs
11-15-2013, 06:34 PM
Wait....You are saying there is an AFI that specifies everyone has to have a "local" number? I highly doubt that. Officers PCS every two years. Do you really think an officer would sign off on an AFI that makes him change his number every 2 years so that he has a local area code?

I haven't had a local number since 07. Most of coworkers at my last assignment didn't have a local number. I call BS on an AFI requiring local numbers.

BISSBOSS
11-15-2013, 08:18 PM
I didn't have time to read the whole thread to see if the OP's question was really answered. I do know that an instruction exists that states you are required to have a working phone number. The reason I know this is because we had a Chief try to force everyone to get local phone numbers by a certain date. I knew this did not sound right so I started digging through AFIs & told my Airmen not to change their numbers. Once I couldn't find anything I contacted the IG & they gave me the AFI (Sorry I don't remember the AFI due to this happening over 5 years ago). When the date came to have our numbers changed the Chief did nothing... If you really want the AFI contact your IG.


I don't think that's specifically true...

-BB-

technomage1
11-18-2013, 06:48 AM
Anyone know of any requirement to call local TDY or leave personnel in the event of an exercise recall? Seems its policy some places now. Folks are getting told they have to be contacted but they don't have to come in.

This is a new one to me and I can't figure out what possible purpose it serves other to annoy the living shit out of people.

Hoo-huh???
11-18-2013, 06:57 AM
I don't think that's specifically true...

-BB-

If you don't think it's true then please contact your IG. Think about it...everyone is on a recall roster; which requires you to have a working telephone number. I never said in my post that you are required to have a local number, only a working number.

sandsjames
11-18-2013, 12:41 PM
Anyone know of any requirement to call local TDY or leave personnel in the event of an exercise recall? Seems its policy some places now. Folks are getting told they have to be contacted but they don't have to come in.

This is a new one to me and I can't figure out what possible purpose it serves other to annoy the living shit out of people.

I've heard people say this, and seen it done, but have never seen it in writing. Obviously, you have to leave a contact number while on leave, but unless real world, there should be no reason for them to contact you. My last 5 or 6 years, I never mentioned that my leave would be local. I was always "travelling" while on leave just for this reason.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
11-18-2013, 12:56 PM
First of all, how many people, especially our Airmen, DON'T have phones? Second, why would anyone worth a shit NOT want to provide leadership with their phone number? If you are on active duty, then you should want to be accessible in the possible event of a real-world recall. That's why you are on active duty. Contrary to popular belief, it really is a 24/7 job.

As far as leave goes, leadership should leave you alone so you can actually use that leave for what DOD intended it for, to recharge your batteries. If you are a leader (managementship type) who thinks it's remotely ok to call someone on leave for an exercise or other non-real world work related event, then you are a big, fat D-bag. If this is you, then stop it!

Absinthe Anecdote
11-18-2013, 01:16 PM
First of all, how many people, especially our Airmen, DON'T have phones? Second, why would anyone worth a shit NOT want to provide leadership with their phone number? If you are on active duty, then you should want to be accessible in the possible event of a real-world recall. That's why you are on active duty. Contrary to popular belief, it really is a 24/7 job.

As far as leave goes, leadership should leave you alone so you can actually use that leave for what DOD intended it for, to recharge your batteries. If you are a leader (managementship type) who thinks it's remotely ok to call someone on leave for an exercise or other non-real world work related event, then you are a big, fat D-bag. If this is you, then stop it!

Ahmen!

Where the hell were you a couple of pages ago when I was getting my ass stomped by @maint chief and @Technomange1 ?

technomage1
11-18-2013, 01:19 PM
I've heard people say this, and seen it done, but have never seen it in writing. Obviously, you have to leave a contact number while on leave, but unless real world, there should be no reason for them to contact you. My last 5 or 6 years, I never mentioned that my leave would be local. I was always "travelling" while on leave just for this reason.

It's in writing at "base x" in the form of an AFI signed by the wing king, and no, base x is not downrange. My jaw hit the ground when I saw it.

technomage1
11-18-2013, 01:34 PM
First of all, how many people, especially our Airmen, DON'T have phones? Second, why would anyone worth a shit NOT want to provide leadership with their phone number? If you are on active duty, then you should want to be accessible in the possible event of a real-world recall. That's why you are on active duty. Contrary to popular belief, it really is a 24/7 job.

As far as leave goes, leadership should leave you alone so you can actually use that leave for what DOD intended it for, to recharge your batteries. If you are a leader (managementship type) who thinks it's remotely ok to call someone on leave for an exercise or other non-real world work related event, then you are a big, fat D-bag. If this is you, then stop it!

I've already explained in detail why I didn't have a phone at several locations in the past.

Regarding the being contacted while on leave for exercises, I agree its a d-bag move. It's in writing in the form of a wing king signed AFI over 10 years old. If they keep calling me for stupid stuff on pass days, in the middle of the night, and recalling me on leave days then this location will join the others where I didn't have a phone. I get "informational" recalls nearly every other week on stupid stuff.

Morale is low would be a true statement, and it's policies like this that are the main reason. I can't believe someone actually proposed this then got it signed by by wing king and no one along the way said, hey, why are we doing this? I also can't believe over the last 10 years no wing king hasn't seen it, thought it was pointless, and amended the pub to remove it.

When off duty - and especially when on leave - it's hard to refresh your batteries if you're always getting called.

BISSBOSS
11-18-2013, 03:14 PM
If you don't think it's true then please contact your IG. Think about it...everyone is on a recall roster; which requires you to have a working telephone number. I never said in my post that you are required to have a local number, only a working number.

I understand what you said. I merely stated that I did not think that there was a specific requirement to have a telephone. I checked the Epubs site pretty thoroughly and could find no references to a requirement for a telephone.

I have also managed many unit recall rosters and have had several personnel listed without a phone number.

I just don't think the AF can blanket require personnel to have a phone any more than they can require you to have a car.

It it a GOOD idea? Sure. Is it "odd" not to? Absolutely. But, can the AF MAKE you...?

-BB-

BOSS302
11-18-2013, 08:48 PM
I checked the Epubs site pretty thoroughly and could find no references to a requirement for a telephone.



Maybe it's in the ceiling?

MaintChief
11-19-2013, 12:51 PM
Ahmen!

Where the hell were you a couple of pages ago when I was getting my ass stomped by @maint chief and @Technomange1 ?

Ok, let's clarify something...the question was can the USAF "REQUIRE" you to have a phone. The answer is "no". Unless the USAF provides it to you at no charge to yourself, you CAN'T be required to purchase a phone for mission purposes. Anybody here is welcome to go down to Base Legal and ask the question instead of playing "in my opinion" here. That said...there used to be bay phones in the dorms, CQ, runners, etc. All of which serve the purpose of notification. Worked really well for many decades prior to the advent of cell phones. Commanders and 1st Sgt's along with squadron superintendents are usually provided government phones for 24/7 contact purposes. As for recall rosters...can anybody show me an Air Force or DOD Standard Form that is labeled "Recall Roster"? I can put anything I want on one. They are a tool for supervision so as to know where all their personnel live and to provide a means to get in contact with same. I used to put a pager number on mine. Lots of talking but not a lot of facts.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-19-2013, 01:08 PM
Ok, let's clarify something...the question was can the USAF "REQUIRE" you to have a phone. The answer is "no". Unless the USAF provides it to you at no charge to yourself, you CAN'T be required to purchase a phone for mission purposes. Anybody here is welcome to go down to Base Legal and ask the question instead of playing "in my opinion" here. That said...there used to be bay phones in the dorms, CQ, runners, etc. All of which serve the purpose of notification. Worked really well for many decades prior to the advent of cell phones. Commanders and 1st Sgt's along with squadron superintendents are usually provided government phones for 24/7 contact purposes. As for recall rosters...can anybody show me an Air Force or DOD Standard Form that is labeled "Recall Roster"? I can put anything I want on one. They are a tool for supervision so as to know where all their personnel live and to provide a means to get in contact with same. I used to put a pager number on mine. Lots of talking but not a lot of facts.

That is a crappy attitude to have. What if everybody felt like that? I'm appalled that as a prior Chief you are running around helping airmen dodge recalls.

Oh, and I don't like your tone with me either.

efmbman
11-19-2013, 01:19 PM
...But, can the AF MAKE you...?

An old saying in the Army (maybe the USAF has a something similar): The Army can't make you do anything, they can only make you wish you had done it.

MaintChief
11-19-2013, 06:09 PM
That is a crappy attitude to have. What if everybody felt like that? I'm appalled that as a prior Chief you are running around helping airmen dodge recalls.

Oh, and I don't like your tone with me either.

You don't like my tone? You think I really care? Unlike you, I have already PROVEN my abilities to manage and lead Airmen...and was quite successful at it. When I desire your opinion as to your likes or dislikes, I'll think about telling you what to say. As a prior Chief...I KNEW my job, I knew the AFI's, and I knew the limits under which I could operate. I never had a problem contacting an Airman...they ALL knew the consequences if they tried to play games. Maybe because I came on active duty in 1981 and was a SAC trained killer raised on SAC MSET made me the way I am. NEVER say anything to an Airman that you can't back up by law, regulation, or AFI. Once you lie to an Airman and they catch you at it or they call your bluff, you are toast. You have lost all credibility/earned authority and they will NEVER respect you again. Unlike the new, kinder, PT crazed NCO's who can't lead a starving wolf to rotting meat, I ensured my Airmen knew what the rules were. Had weekend duty...you WILL be available...if not..you get to keep the Pro-Super company for 12 hours. I'm amazed that you can make a mountain out of a molehill. This isn't rocket science.

sandsjames
11-19-2013, 06:27 PM
You don't like my tone? You think I really care? Unlike you, I have already PROVEN my abilities to manage and lead Airmen...and was quite successful at it. When I desire your opinion as to your likes or dislikes, I'll think about telling you what to say. As a prior Chief...I KNEW my job, I knew the AFI's, and I knew the limits under which I could operate. I never had a problem contacting an Airman...they ALL knew the consequences if they tried to play games. Maybe because I came on active duty in 1981 and was a SAC trained killer raised on SAC MSET made me the way I am. NEVER say anything to an Airman that you can't back up by law, regulation, or AFI. Once you lie to an Airman and they catch you at it or they call your bluff, you are toast. You have lost all credibility/earned authority and they will NEVER respect you again. Unlike the new, kinder, PT crazed NCO's who can't lead a starving wolf to rotting meat, I ensured my Airmen knew what the rules were. Had weekend duty...you WILL be available...if not..you get to keep the Pro-Super company for 12 hours. I'm amazed that you can make a mountain out of a molehill. This isn't rocket science.

I guess sarcasm doesn't show up too well on an internet forum.

Love the trained killer part...

Curious as to what games you are talking about when it comes to being contacted.

sandsjames
11-19-2013, 06:29 PM
It's in writing at "base x" in the form of an AFI signed by the wing king, and no, base x is not downrange. My jaw hit the ground when I saw it.

Can an AFI be signed by the wing king? Sounds more like a commander policy, which, if you speak with base legal, means almost nothing.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-19-2013, 06:35 PM
You don't like my tone? You think I really care? Unlike you, I have already PROVEN my abilities to manage and lead Airmen...and was quite successful at it. When I desire your opinion as to your likes or dislikes, I'll think about telling you what to say. As a prior Chief...I KNEW my job, I knew the AFI's, and I knew the limits under which I could operate. I never had a problem contacting an Airman...they ALL knew the consequences if they tried to play games. Maybe because I came on active duty in 1981 and was a SAC trained killer raised on SAC MSET made me the way I am. NEVER say anything to an Airman that you can't back up by law, regulation, or AFI. Once you lie to an Airman and they catch you at it or they call your bluff, you are toast. You have lost all credibility/earned authority and they will NEVER respect you again. Unlike the new, kinder, PT crazed NCO's who can't lead a starving wolf to rotting meat, I ensured my Airmen knew what the rules were. Had weekend duty...you WILL be available...if not..you get to keep the Pro-Super company for 12 hours. I'm amazed that you can make a mountain out of a molehill. This isn't rocket science.

Okay, the truth is coming out now, you are one of those guys who doesn't take PT seriously, I'm not surprised you help airmen dodge recalls and hide downtown when the base goes on alert. How can you expect to anyone to take your claims of leadership seriously when you can't knock out a shit load of crunches and push ups?

You are probably a tobacco user with twenty pounds of blubber around their mid-section and you want me to think you are a SAC trained killer... LOL!

I still don't like your tone with me. I got perfect PT scores so, show a little respect.

MaintChief
11-19-2013, 06:45 PM
I guess sarcasm doesn't show up too well on an internet forum.

Love the trained killer part...

Curious as to what games you are talking about when it comes to being contacted.

"SAC trained killer" was the standing in-side joke back in the 80's during the Cold War for us SAC weenies. The killer part was questionable...the SAC trained part, wasn't. SAC was VERY unforgiving back in the day and expected perfection. Fail a QA inspection, you get to go see the DCM with your boss, the shop chief, the branch chief, and the Chief. You only wanted to go through that once. We didn't "lose" nuclear weapons or fail an NSI...

As to "games"...let's see...my cellphone battery died, my cellphone was on vibrate, my phone went straight to voicemail, etc. Ok, no problem. I just make everybody report for weekend duty/standby at 0700 and they stay there until released by the prosuper. And I make it plain why everybody is there. Peer pressure can work wonders. And I'm only talking about weekend duty. Live in base housing and no phone, no problem. You better be there if I send a runner.

MaintChief
11-19-2013, 06:47 PM
Okay, the truth is coming out now, you are one of those guys who doesn't take PT seriously, I'm not surprised you help airmen dodge recalls and hide downtown when the base goes on alert. How can you expect to anyone to take your claims of leadership seriously when you can't knock out a shit load of crunches and push ups?

You are probably a tobacco user with twenty pounds of blubber around their mid-section and you want me to think you are a SAC trained killer... LOL!

I still don't like your tone with me. I got perfect PT scores so, show a little respect.

Very funny GI. I laugh.

technomage1
11-19-2013, 06:55 PM
Can an AFI be signed by the wing king? Sounds more like a commander policy, which, if you speak with base legal, means almost nothing.

It's a wing instruction. AFI may not have been the right term, but it is on the AF pubs website.

BOSS302
11-19-2013, 09:02 PM
You don't like my tone? You think I really care? Unlike you, I have already PROVEN my abilities to manage and lead Airmen...and was quite successful at it. When I desire your opinion as to your likes or dislikes, I'll think about telling you what to say. As a prior Chief...I KNEW my job, I knew the AFI's, and I knew the limits under which I could operate. I never had a problem contacting an Airman...they ALL knew the consequences if they tried to play games. Maybe because I came on active duty in 1981 and was a SAC trained killer raised on SAC MSET made me the way I am. NEVER say anything to an Airman that you can't back up by law, regulation, or AFI. Once you lie to an Airman and they catch you at it or they call your bluff, you are toast. You have lost all credibility/earned authority and they will NEVER respect you again. Unlike the new, kinder, PT crazed NCO's who can't lead a starving wolf to rotting meat, I ensured my Airmen knew what the rules were. Had weekend duty...you WILL be available...if not..you get to keep the Pro-Super company for 12 hours. I'm amazed that you can make a mountain out of a molehill. This isn't rocket science.

Don't bother. You will not get a serious or even a normal conversation out of AA. Not saying it's a bad thing - it's good to have some sarcasm around here. But yelling/screaming at him Internet-style is only going to turn him on.

BISSBOSS
11-19-2013, 09:05 PM
It's a wing instruction. AFI may not have been the right term, but it is on the AF pubs website.

What base?

Where is it?

-BB-

technomage1
11-20-2013, 01:38 AM
What base?

Where is it?

-BB-

I wont share my base publicly but will pm it to you.

sandsjames
11-20-2013, 01:41 AM
"SAC trained killer" was the standing in-side joke back in the 80's during the Cold War for us SAC weenies. The killer part was questionable...the SAC trained part, wasn't. SAC was VERY unforgiving back in the day and expected perfection. Fail a QA inspection, you get to go see the DCM with your boss, the shop chief, the branch chief, and the Chief. You only wanted to go through that once. We didn't "lose" nuclear weapons or fail an NSI...

As to "games"...let's see...my cellphone battery died, my cellphone was on vibrate, my phone went straight to voicemail, etc. Ok, no problem. I just make everybody report for weekend duty/standby at 0700 and they stay there until released by the prosuper. And I make it plain why everybody is there. Peer pressure can work wonders. And I'm only talking about weekend duty. Live in base housing and no phone, no problem. You better be there if I send a runner.

Are they on standby? Leave? I'm confused. Are you saying if you didn't have a phone (there weren't a whole lot of cell phones around in the SAC days) you had to be at home, available, at all times?

OtisRNeedleman
11-20-2013, 02:28 AM
"SAC trained killer" was the standing in-side joke back in the 80's during the Cold War for us SAC weenies. The killer part was questionable...the SAC trained part, wasn't. SAC was VERY unforgiving back in the day and expected perfection. Fail a QA inspection, you get to go see the DCM with your boss, the shop chief, the branch chief, and the Chief. You only wanted to go through that once. We didn't "lose" nuclear weapons or fail an NSI...

As to "games"...let's see...my cellphone battery died, my cellphone was on vibrate, my phone went straight to voicemail, etc. Ok, no problem. I just make everybody report for weekend duty/standby at 0700 and they stay there until released by the prosuper. And I make it plain why everybody is there. Peer pressure can work wonders. And I'm only talking about weekend duty. Live in base housing and no phone, no problem. You better be there if I send a runner.

What is a prosuper? Am not a maintenance type. Thanks!

BOSS302
11-20-2013, 04:59 AM
What is a prosuper? Am not a maintenance type. Thanks!

Pro-Super. He's their equivalent of a superintendent. He gets to ride around in a GOV with a magnetic decal on the doors that usually reads something stupid like "BLUE SUPER" or "RAPTOR 5". His job is to go out on the line and drink coffee while looking serious/inquisitive. A military 'stache and flat top are mandatory.

BISSBOSS
11-20-2013, 04:58 PM
I wont share my base publicly but will pm it to you.

Aaahhh... A Wing Instruction. That explains the "Knee-jerk" nature.

I still don't think the AF can force you to have a phone. If they could, then what's to stop them from banning motorcycles in favor of safer automobiles?

-BB-

Sergeant eNYgma
11-20-2013, 05:21 PM
I do have to agree with you here. I don't know why stuff has to be in an AFI for someone to act responsibly.

Agreed here, my thoughts exactly and seriously who doesn't have a phone these days?

RetC141BFCC
11-20-2013, 05:34 PM
Pro-Super. He's their equivalent of a superintendent. He gets to ride around in a GOV with a magnetic decal on the doors that usually reads something stupid like "BLUE SUPER" or "RAPTOR 5". His job is to go out on the line and drink coffee while looking serious/inquisitive. A military 'stache and flat top are mandatory.

Ok lets play fair I never has a stache or a Flat Top did drink a whole bunch of JAVA from the roach coach. You forgot the part where gets his ass chewed by everybody when a Jet does not take off on time. Now I am going to tell you a little secret. Back when I was a DCC we lived and died on reliability stats. On time take off were the number 1 thing Crew Chiefs were rated on. At Base X were I was at there were a lot of Bird Strikes. The wing safety office put in a bird awareness hotline in was answerd by MX control If AMN Snuffy was over at the Local BX or Army base and he sees a lot of birds the Airman could call the hotline. The base would hold all AC takeoff and landing for about 15 minutes while they sent the bird truck out. The Bird truck made a lot of noise and scared away the birds. So when SSgt great Crew Chief (me) knew his plane was running late he or one of his assitc crew chiefs would call the bird hotline. All flights would be delayed and SSgt great crew chief would make his on time take off stat. To this day not to many people now how I had such great take off stats

technomage1
11-20-2013, 06:57 PM
Aaahhh... A Wing Instruction. That explains the "Knee-jerk" nature.

I still don't think the AF can force you to have a phone. If they could, then what's to stop them from banning motorcycles in favor of safer automobiles?

-BB-

It isn't forcing me to have one. My beef with it was they're contacting people on local leave status for exercise recalls. That's BS.

SomeRandomGuy
11-20-2013, 07:08 PM
It isn't forcing me to have one. My beef with it was they're contacting people on local leave status for exercise recalls. That's BS.

Here is what you do. Anytime you take leave in the local area keep a 12 pack in the fridge or a bottle of your favorite liquor handy. If someone calls you for a recall and wants you to come in tell them that is fine but they are going to have to come and pick you up. When they ask why just tell them "it is my day off and I have been drinking" If they actually take you up on your offer just start chugging. By the time they arrive to pick you up I doubt they will think it is a good idea for you to come in for an exercise. If they still insist make sure and fill your gas mask canteen up so you can maintain your buzz even in MOPP 4.

imported_KnuckleDragger
11-20-2013, 09:24 PM
Ok lets play fair I never has a stache or a Flat Top did drink a whole bunch of JAVA from the roach coach. You forgot the part where gets his ass chewed by everybody when a Jet does not take off on time. Now I am going to tell you a little secret. Back when I was a DCC we lived and died on reliability stats. On time take off were the number 1 thing Crew Chiefs were rated on. At Base X were I was at there were a lot of Bird Strikes. The wing safety office put in a bird awareness hotline in was answerd by MX control If AMN Snuffy was over at the Local BX or Army base and he sees a lot of birds the Airman could call the hotline. The base would hold all AC takeoff and landing for about 15 minutes while they sent the bird truck out. The Bird truck made a lot of noise and scared away the birds. So when SSgt great Crew Chief (me) knew his plane was running late he or one of his assitc crew chiefs would call the bird hotline. All flights would be delayed and SSgt great crew chief would make his on time take off stat. To this day not to many people now how I had such great take off stats

That is awesome.

technomage1
11-21-2013, 01:13 AM
Here is what you do. Anytime you take leave in the local area keep a 12 pack in the fridge or a bottle of your favorite liquor handy. If someone calls you for a recall and wants you to come in tell them that is fine but they are going to have to come and pick you up. When they ask why just tell them "it is mday off and I have been drinking" If they actuallytake you up on your offer just start chugging. By the time they arrive to pick you up I doubt they will think it is a good idea for you to come in for an exercise. If they still insist make sure and fill your gas mask canteen up so you can maintain your buzz even in MOPP 4.

Theyre not making you come in, thankfully. just contacting you at 0400. Because no one would like to sleep in on leave at all.

There is no reason for this. if it was a real world event, of course i would understand. but what does this demonstrate? capabilty? You cant simulate that?

i want to find the numbskull that propsed this and call him once a month at 0400 after he retires and see how he likes it.

DWWSWWD
11-21-2013, 01:32 PM
Happened to me. Big deal.

SSgt Flattop (0400) - This is a recall. I need you to call the next person on the list and report to work ASAP.

Amn DWWSWWD - I'm on leave

SSgt Flattop - Oh, OK. Will you call the next person and let them know?

Amn DWWSWWD - No.

SSgt Flattop - Oh, OK. Enjoy your leave.

technomage1
11-21-2013, 02:15 PM
There is a big difference between calling someone you didn't know was on leave and a policy that stipulates people on local leave will be contacted.

BOSS302
11-21-2013, 02:19 PM
Happened to me. Big deal.

SSgt Flattop (0400) - This is a recall. I need you to call the next person on the list and report to work ASAP.

Amn DWWSWWD - I'm on leave

SSgt Flattop - Oh, OK. Will you call the next person and let them know?

Amn DWWSWWD - No.

SSgt Flattop - Oh, OK. Enjoy your leave.

Amn BOSS302 would be wise enough to not tell his SSgt WhiteSocksWithBDUs "No."

sandsjames
11-21-2013, 03:34 PM
Agreed here, my thoughts exactly and seriously who doesn't have a phone these days?


Me...

Absinthe Anecdote
11-21-2013, 03:41 PM
Me...

No phone but you have a computer... I'd recall your ass via Skype and you better pick up on the first ring.

sandsjames
11-21-2013, 06:16 PM
No phone but you have a computer... I'd recall your ass via Skype and you better pick up on the first ring.

LOL...yeah...I'd be waiting on your call.