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BOSS302
10-26-2013, 12:12 PM
Given his past history with the MTF, I cannot say I am surprised. However, I am perplexed - why was he banned? Did I miss an explosive thread?

Gonzo432
10-26-2013, 12:15 PM
Remember George Carlin's list of things you can't say on TV?

sandsjames
10-26-2013, 12:37 PM
Remember George Carlin's list of things you can't say on TV?

Funny thing is, I think 5 of those 7 words are now allowed on TV, in primetime, just not on MTF.

Mjölnir
10-26-2013, 12:41 PM
Without getting too much into it:

Tak received a permanent ban from the Forum Admin a few months ago. After some time, he contacted the Forum Admin and asked to be allowed to return to MTF. The permanent ban was lifted and Tak allowed to return as a courtesy to him.

Tak has been reminded several times since then, that based on his history on MTF and being allowed to return he was/is essentially on "probation", as such he may need to err on the side of caution with the Community guidelines. Instead, Tak has received several warnings and infractions for violating the Guidelines in the past couple of weeks, which he disagrees with and has had extensive conversations with a moderator about, he has been encouraged that if he feels he is being treated unfairly to talk to the Forum Admin directly.

At the point his disagreements with how the Forum is moderated went from private to public in what was viewed as an effort to be disruptive and/or return to the previous "jackassery", the courtesy of the removal of his previous permanent banning was temporarily lifted.

sandsjames
10-26-2013, 12:43 PM
the courtesy of the removal of his previous permanent banning was temporarily lifted.

?????? Is that a double triple negative ???? :witless:

Mjölnir
10-26-2013, 12:45 PM
I did my best to keep it from being a quadruple.

Vrake
10-26-2013, 12:46 PM
?????? Is that a double triple negative ???? :witless:


Sounds like double secret probation may have just ended

But we didn't back down when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor! :)

TJMAC77SP
10-26-2013, 01:20 PM
So his Marc Antony shtick got old for you guys?

Mjölnir
10-26-2013, 01:23 PM
Consider how much more you often suffer from your anger and grief, than from those very things for which you are angry and grieved.

TJMAC77SP
10-26-2013, 01:29 PM
Every conquering temptation represents a new fund of moral energy. Every trial endured and weathered in the right spirit makes a soul nobler and stronger than it was before.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-26-2013, 01:50 PM
The Yeats quotations I can handle, sort of, but that Marc Antony remark was right over my head.

UncaRastus
10-26-2013, 04:09 PM
One more time. If the TOS is not to be followed, you can be banned.

If someone is on probation, and breaks their promises, that person can be banned.

There are some things that the moderators keep an eye on, which are not covered by the TOS. The person that is egregiously breaking written rules, or is in contradiction of specail rules, not included because of the constant different kinds of attempts to slide by, brought forward in here, using the 'But it's not in the TOS' kind of mentality, being not covered by the TOS, are warned and/or infracted, for their behaviour.

If that person continues with their behaviour, they will be banned.

Smeghead
10-26-2013, 04:14 PM
One more time. If the TOS is not to be followed, you can be banned.

If someone is on probation, and breaks their promises, that person can be banned.

There are some things that the moderators keep an eye on, which are not covered by the TOS. The person that is egregiously breaking written rules, or is in contradiction of specail rules, not included because of the constant different kinds of attempts to slide by, brought forward in here, using the 'But it's not in the TOS' kind of mentality, being not covered by the TOS, are warned and/or infracted, for their behaviour.

If that person continues with their behaviour, they will be banned.

Rules for what? The sake of having them? It's a fucking Internet forum. Nobody's dying here. Used to be some interesting discussions/arguments/all out brawls on this place. It was funny. Now we have a bunch of people who probably launch bullying complaints when their kids' football team loses. I guess the Walgreen is MTF land are all out of Vagisil.

Pathetic.

Smeghead
10-26-2013, 04:15 PM
And I like the "one more time," comment. Or what?

BOSS302
10-26-2013, 04:26 PM
Nice info.

sandsjames
10-26-2013, 05:29 PM
It's strange how this forum used to be about stupid shit people wanted to talk about and now it's about the mods. I've never actually been in a forum that was about the mods.

imnohero
10-26-2013, 05:34 PM
it's strange how the same 3 people post just to bitch about the moderators and never any other time.

sandsjames
10-26-2013, 05:47 PM
it's strange how the same 3 people post just to bitch about the moderators and never any other time.

Who would those be??? I'm sure that, out of 6100+ posts, there must be a couple that aren't bitching about the mods.

imnohero
10-26-2013, 05:54 PM
really, you mean of the thousands of posts they aren't all about the moderators? huh, that's strange, too. I could've sworn you just said that it wasn't about anything but the mods.


It's strange how this forum used to be about stupid shit people wanted to talk about and now it's about the mods.

yep, you did. Strange, now you're saying it's not. Maybe your confused.

sandsjames
10-26-2013, 06:01 PM
really, you mean of the thousands of posts they aren't all about the moderators? huh, that's strange, too. I could've sworn you just said that it wasn't about anything but the mods.

yep, you did. Strange, now you're saying it's not. Maybe your confused.

I guess all my posts could be doing nothing but trying to contradict what others say and add zero value to any discussion.

And why are you attacking me? Mods...aren't personal attacks against the TOS????

imnohero
10-26-2013, 06:16 PM
Aww, you mean this isn't the kind of "stupid shit" that you like talking about? OK, what other kind of stupidity would you prefer?

Absinthe Anecdote
10-26-2013, 06:33 PM
And I like the "one more time," comment. Or what?

I'm putting you on a list of names.

Bunch
10-26-2013, 06:39 PM
Tak is banned... Again? Again again?! Or again again again again?!!!!!

OtisRNeedleman
10-26-2013, 06:40 PM
You gotta feel sorry for Tak. He's addicted to this forum and I believe he takes it rather too seriously. By the same token, believe the mods in general have been a little heavy-handed. Looking at the forum these days, there are just a few topics active at any given time as compared to a few months ago. Granted, haven't seen all of Tak's posts, especially whatever promoted the latest removal. But overall it seems that the forum has gotten somewhat dull these days.

TJMAC77SP
10-26-2013, 06:53 PM
really, you mean of the thousands of posts they aren't all about the moderators? huh, that's strange, too. I could've sworn you just said that it wasn't about anything but the mods.

yep, you did. Strange, now you're saying it's not. Maybe your confused.

Actually he asked a question (which you didn't answer) and posted a counterpoint in the event your assertions included him.

TJMAC77SP
10-26-2013, 06:54 PM
Aww, you mean this isn't the kind of "stupid shit" that you like talking about? OK, what other kind of stupidity would you prefer?

Actually you are both discussing the 'stupid shit'....and now I am as well.

imnohero
10-26-2013, 07:13 PM
Actually he asked a question (which you didn't answer) and posted a counterpoint in the event your assertions included him.


Actually you are both discussing the 'stupid shit'....and now I am as well.

Exactly. This is what he lamenting as lost. I for one don't miss it.

TJMAC77SP
10-26-2013, 07:42 PM
Exactly. This is what he lamenting as lost. I for one don't miss it.

Another opinion.................'Merica!!!................ aint it great?

Mjölnir
10-26-2013, 08:29 PM
Mods...aren't personal attacks against the TOS????

Yes, they are:

Disruption
You're welcome to voice your opinion here, and it would be a boring place if you didn't. But if you disagree with a comment that's been made, keep it civil. Posts designed to instigate or disrupt discussions or that contain offensive material may be removed, along with other messages posted in response. Please don't use obscene or offensive language, hate speech or engage in personal attacks of other members. Bashing services on branch-specific forums or any forum is not acceptable within our communities. Posts made with the intent to belittle, harass or otherwise disrupt a community will be removed. Repeated instances of such harassment and disruption may result in a revocation of posting privileges.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-26-2013, 08:55 PM
I want to tell on Sandsjames because he often makes snippy posts that are just shy of personal attacks.

If being snippy isn't in the TOS maybe it could be put in the "special rules" that Uncle Rhemis was talking about.

SomeRandomGuy
10-26-2013, 09:43 PM
I want to tell on Sandsjames because he often makes snippy posts that are just shy of personal attacks.

If being snippy isn't in the TOS maybe it could be put in the "special rules" that Uncle Rhemis was talking about.

One time sandjames called me an "ad hominem" and then referred to my mother as old fashioned.

imnohero
10-26-2013, 09:52 PM
Another opinion.................'Merica!!!................ aint it great?

gazuntite

imnohero
10-26-2013, 09:54 PM
One time sandjames called me an "ad hominem" and then referred to my mother as old fashioned.

this one time, billy told bobby that johnny told him that katy didn't like me and said I was a "booger head." Should I tattle to the teacher?

BOSS302
10-26-2013, 10:05 PM
One time sandjames called me an "ad hominem" and then referred to my mother as old fashioned.


I want to tell on Sandsjames because he often makes snippy posts that are just shy of personal attacks.



Sandsjames touched me.

UncaRastus
10-26-2013, 10:32 PM
Oh. My.

AFcynic
10-26-2013, 10:33 PM
Hey.. where did you get your moderating skills? At the toilet store?

UncaRastus
10-26-2013, 10:37 PM
AFcynic,

With Tak being banned, I am looking for a new person to watch closely. Are you volunteering for that?

Greg
10-26-2013, 10:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8105U1WY9ro

Absinthe Anecdote
10-26-2013, 11:00 PM
Sandsjames touched me.

I don't like the way he reads my posts either; I can't prove it, but I think he probably has a big sneer on his face when he reads my posts.

There ought to be something the mods can do about that. Maybe that Rhemis character and his "special rules" can step in and straighten Sandsjames out.

Mjölnir
10-26-2013, 11:50 PM
One time sandjames called me an "ad hominem" ...

3560


... and then referred to my mother as old fashioned.

Moms, spouses and kids should be off limits ...

sandsjames
10-27-2013, 12:05 AM
One time sandjames called me an "ad hominem" and then referred to my mother as old fashioned.

Now I know you're lying. I have no idea what "ad hominem" means. Isn't that when two different words have the same meaning...or two words pronounced the same have different meanings???

sandsjames
10-27-2013, 12:06 AM
Sandsjames touched me.

Physically or emotionally?

sandsjames
10-27-2013, 12:08 AM
I don't like the way he reads my posts either;

Generally, I only read the first sentence, edit out everything else, and respond to what I think you probably said in the rest of the post.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-27-2013, 12:25 AM
It's an outrage that you're allowed to trample over the "special rules" like that.

You're on my list.

sandsjames
10-27-2013, 12:27 AM
It's a outrage that you're allowed to trample over the "special rules" like that.



AN outrage...not "a outrage".

meatbringer
10-27-2013, 12:53 AM
I for one am glad that the
moderators are doing such
an exceptional job with cleaning
out the riff-raff from the
forums. I used to actually
enjoy coming on here and
reading posts and battling
it out, but it got to the point
where some individuals were
being a little too crazy for
my taste. What can you expect
when someone is constantly
getting banned and then going
against forum rules. At least we
don't have to be subjected to
any more posts that are structured
like some crazy ass, incoherent
poem that doesn't make sense.
:clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1:

Capt Alfredo
10-27-2013, 12:54 AM
AFcynic,

With Tak being banned, I am looking for a new person to watch closely. Are you volunteering for that?

Since this is the "questions" forum, I am going to ask you one. What is your goal in being a moderator here? Do you see your presence improving the community, making things better, more interesting, or more appealing to a wider audience? Do you think the quoted material above adds anything positive to this community? Do you think, perhaps, that "threatening" people might just drive them away, or make others respect the role of the moderator a little less? I am really starting to wonder what the overall desired endstate is for these fora (forums); does the parent company want this place to dry up and disappear? If so, just pull the plug now and kill it. This death of a thousand cuts (aka slow bleeding off of users) doesn't make any sense and I can't figure out the point of the strategy.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-27-2013, 01:01 AM
AN outrage...not "a outrage".

I'm telling Uncle Rhemis.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
10-27-2013, 01:13 AM
Mods- between a couple versions of FLAPS and one tour of duty as Blue Warrior, I've been an active contributor on this forum since 2007. Although I've gone through some rough periods with a few other members, recently whom I've gotten along with, overall I've always looked forward to posting and reading comments over the years. However, this forum has really gotten boring, more so than I've ever seen. There were other long time MTF vets who, after several years of active participation, basically quit and walked away (VFFTSGT, ChiefB, F4Crew Chick, VariableWind, etc). What made the MTF so popular over the years, yet so effing boring now? I like 'moderate' moderation, but I think you guys may have regulated the forums a tad bit too much and pushed people away.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
10-27-2013, 01:18 AM
Since this is the "questions" forum, I am going to ask you one. What is your goal in being a moderator here? Do you see your presence improving the community, making things better, more interesting, or more appealing to a wider audience? Do you think the quoted material above adds anything positive to this community? Do you think, perhaps, that "threatening" people might just drive them away, or make others respect the role of the moderator a little less? I am really starting to wonder what the overall desired endstate is for these fora (forums); does the parent company want this place to dry up and disappear? If so, just pull the plug now and kill it. This death of a thousand cuts (aka slow bleeding off of users) doesn't make any sense and I can't figure out the point of the strategy.


I've noticed there are no longer any shortcuts to the MTF on the AF Times home page. It's now harder to find, which leads me to suspect they want it to bleed out a little bit before finally pulling it off of life support.

imnohero
10-27-2013, 01:25 AM
While I'm not a mod, as I recall most of the long time people that left were all of the variety that "any moderation is too much." They wanted to be able to say and act any way they felt at the moment, without regard to anything or anyone but themselves. As I also recall they didn't "walk away"...they threw a coniption and got banned.

ChiefB has been gone a couple years, Variable Wind too (someone said he's in jail now).

Mjölnir
10-27-2013, 01:38 AM
Since this is the "questions" forum, I am going to ask you one. What is your goal in being a moderator here? ...


Mods- between a couple versions of FLAPS and one tour of duty as Blue Warrior, I've been an active contributor on this forum since 2007. Although I've gone through some rough periods with a few other members, recently whom I've gotten along with, overall I've always looked forward to posting and reading comments over the years. However, this forum has really gotten boring, more so than I've ever seen. There were other long time MTF vets who, after several years of active participation, basically quit and walked away (VFFTSGT, ChiefB, F4Crew Chick, VariableWind, etc). What made the MTF so popular over the years, yet so effing boring now? I like 'moderate' moderation, but I think you guys may have regulated the forums a tad bit too much and pushed people away.

I too have been around several years. The problem I see is that the 'fun' on the forum got so out of control that people trying to have a serious conversation or debate could not, new joins were driven off, and instead of letting the fun be in the sections loosely earmarked for fun it took over nearly every forum and thread.

As a mod (to answer Capt Alfredo's question) my goal would be that the users self-regulate / self-moderate. Want to have fun, a dicey conversation etc.? I really don't care, but don't derail people trying to have a conversation or debate.

I observed the "Entitlements Much" thread, which aside from people getting passionate about their points of view was awesome, and went on for 20 pages without any moderator doing anything, then we started getting folks talking about boobs.

Yes there is some selective / objective moderation on my part: In off topic / non serious threads I don't mind the zingers, jokes or sidebar; in a thread that is a serious discussion I would like to see that stuff kept out so those trying to debate can debate.

What would I want? Have all the fun you want, in the right places ... That way those who want the serious discussion can have it. If you want a "Wild West" forum for a military crowd, there are several of those I can point you to. MTF is probably going to a hybrid (not all business, but not the "Wild West" anymore either.)

Absinthe Anecdote
10-27-2013, 01:39 AM
I've noticed there are no longer any shortcuts to the MTF on the AF Times home page. It's now harder to find, which leads me to suspect they want it to bleed out a little bit before finally pulling it off of life support.

I'm not buying that theory because the moderators are just volunteers, right?

There might be one or two of the mods that suffer from "Barney Fife" Syndrome, but it is not any worse than letting Tak and Robot Chicken run the forums.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
10-27-2013, 01:39 AM
While I'm not a mod, as I recall most of the long time people that left were all of the variety that "any moderation is too much." They wanted to be able to say and act any way they felt at the moment, without regard to anything or anyone but themselves. As I also recall they didn't "walk away"...they threw a coniption and got banned.

ChiefB has been gone a couple years, Variable Wind too (someone said he's in jail now).

I only listed a few people that I could remember off the top of my head, but the point is that the MTF used to be a whole lot more interesting and active than it is now. Things have changed and this place now kind of sucks. There's no denying this.

Mjölnir
10-27-2013, 01:46 AM
I'm not buying that theory because the moderators are just volunteers, right?


If by "volunteer" you mean "not paid", then yes.


There might be one or two of the mods that suffer from "Barney Fife" Syndrome,

At least Barney had a good heart.


but it is not any worse than letting Tak and Robot Chicken run the forums.

Thanks?

Cerberus
10-27-2013, 01:57 AM
[T]he point is that the MTF used to be a whole lot more interesting and active than it is now.

you keep saying that. "interesting" is subjective...just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. "Active" is a different story and can be objectively measured. Unfortunately, I do not have access to the forum statistics on active posters, # posts per day, etc. that we could examine. I think Bourne could get them as the administrator, so I will ask for them.

BOSS302
10-27-2013, 08:48 AM
I only listed a few people that I could remember off the top of my head, but the point is that the MTF used to be a whole lot more interesting and active than it is now. Things have changed and this place now kind of sucks. There's no denying this.


you keep saying that. "interesting" is subjective...just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. "Active" is a different story and can be objectively measured. Unfortunately, I do not have access to the forum statistics on active posters, # posts per day, etc. that we could examine. I think Bourne could get them as the administrator, so I will ask for them.

According to Alexa.com, the traffic for the MTF has dropped by 5.14% for daily visits, 5.00% for time spent on the site/visit, has dropped 314 spots in the global webpage traffic ratings...in the past three months.

Gonzo432
10-27-2013, 10:18 AM
According to Alexa.com, the traffic for the MTF has dropped by 5.14% for daily visits, 5.00% for time spent on the site/visit, has dropped 314 spots in the global webpage traffic ratings...in the past three months.

I thought it was going to be, " the traffic for the MTF has dropped by 5.14% for daily visits, 5.00% for time spent on the site/visit, has dropped 314 spots in the global webpage traffic ratings...since Tak was banned."

Gonzo432
10-27-2013, 10:19 AM
If by "volunteer" you mean "not paid", then yes.



At least Barney had a good heart.



Thanks?

Bud-nipping?

Mjölnir
10-27-2013, 10:57 AM
I've noticed there are no longer any shortcuts to the MTF on the AF Times home page. It's now harder to find, which leads me to suspect they want it to bleed out a little bit before finally pulling it off of life support.

It is still there, very bottom right in the "More" subsection, labeled "Forums". It takes you to the MTF activity stream

technomage1
10-27-2013, 02:24 PM
According to Alexa.com, the traffic for the MTF has dropped by 5.14% for daily visits, 5.00% for time spent on the site/visit, has dropped 314 spots in the global webpage traffic ratings...in the past three months.

I could only pull up military times on that site and not the forums themselves. I got the same numbers you posted so I'm guessing that's what you did as well. While insightful, unless the forum traffic itself is considered the traffic to military times itself is going to skew the results.

Mjölnir
10-27-2013, 02:48 PM
According to Alexa.com, the traffic for the MTF has dropped by 5.14% for daily visits, 5.00% for time spent on the site/visit, has dropped 314 spots in the global webpage traffic ratings...in the past three months.

There are a couple of ways to do it (gauge traffic etc.) on the admin control panel (which the mods can't use) if it is set up the same way as the other forums I am a moderate for.

Anyone can go to the activity stream and count posts as well, time consuming but a low tech way to do it as well.

I would expect post count to drop or to have dropped with the absence of a few of MTFs more prolific posters. That said, a high post count does not necessarily equate to a high level of contribution.

Mjölnir
10-27-2013, 02:50 PM
I could only pull up military times on that site and not the forums themselves. I got the same numbers you posted so I'm guessing that's what you did as well. While insightful, unless the forum traffic itself is considered the traffic to military times itself is going to skew the results.

I would guess the results are for the whole domain, but that is really just a guess.

sandsjames
10-27-2013, 03:59 PM
I would expect post count to drop or to have dropped with the absence of a few of MTFs more prolific posters. That said, a high post count does not necessarily equate to a high level of contribution.

Guess it depends on what you consider a contribution.

Mjölnir
10-27-2013, 04:28 PM
Guess it depends on what you consider a contribution.

True

BOSS302
10-27-2013, 07:02 PM
I could only pull up military times on that site and not the forums themselves. I got the same numbers you posted so I'm guessing that's what you did as well. While insightful, unless the forum traffic itself is considered the traffic to military times itself is going to skew the results.

Right.

kool-aid
10-27-2013, 08:08 PM
Yes, they are:

Disruption
You're welcome to voice your opinion here, and it would be a boring place if you didn't. But if you disagree with a comment that's been made, keep it civil. Posts designed to instigate or disrupt discussions or that contain offensive material may be removed, along with other messages posted in response. Please don't use obscene or offensive language, hate speech or engage in personal attacks of other members. Bashing services on branch-specific forums or any forum is not acceptable within our communities. Posts made with the intent to belittle, harass or otherwise disrupt a community will be removed. Repeated instances of such harassment and disruption may result in a revocation of posting privileges.

I was personally attacked recently and I don't think that person was banned, figured it's politics as to who suffers repercussions and who doesn't though.

RS6405
10-27-2013, 09:08 PM
I was personally attacked recently and I don't think that person was banned, figured it's politics as to who suffers repercussions and who doesn't though.

Ok, I'll bite.... Who attacked you?

mikezulu1
10-27-2013, 09:10 PM
yeah this place sucks now. afforums.com is way more active, which is sad. I remember less than a year ago by the end of my shift the entire front page was full of new and interesting topics. Now the front page has topics that are over two weeks old. Who cares if a topic gets derailed by "boobs". This forum is exactly whats wrong with america and the airforce. We are going to regulate everything and punish everyone, no on should ever be offended by anything or anyone at anytime. Freedom of speech has been trumped by censorship so no one gets their feelings hurt. This country and our military are rotting from the inside.

RS6405
10-27-2013, 09:14 PM
For the past few days, I've noticed only a few active posts. In the last 24 hours only 6 posts have been commented on.

3562

Subjective or not; I remember when there were over 20+ posts updated in a 24 hour period.

mikezulu1
10-27-2013, 09:18 PM
and though some of them were derailed, many had great and useful information.

imnohero
10-27-2013, 10:30 PM
All this nostaligia about how "great" it "used to be"... guess what, things change. Deal with it. If you all put half the energy into positive contribution to the forum that you do into bitching about how awful it is...

But it guess that takes too much effort, right? Easier to just complain and sit on your ass and do nothing.

kool-aid
10-27-2013, 10:31 PM
Ok, I'll bite.... Who attacked you?

The person who called me a boot-licking yard jockey, which I think translates to butt kissing uncle tom.

technomage1
10-27-2013, 10:35 PM
I agree that the quantity and quality of forum posts has gone down since the moderation began. Part of this is losing some of the more "colorful" characters - who I enjoyed for the most part. Even when I vehamently disagreed with someone, even though I don't behave that way online, and even though some of them crossed the line sometimes - they made the forum fun. Who wasn't amused by WillsPowers eye bleeding multi-color insane conspiracy theories? Who didn't enjoy the time PickYourBattles and I got into it over his forum actions? As others have pointed out, it's a forum and no one got hurt. The only thing that really turned me off was the rep wars, just because they were so stupid and pointless.

Another part of this is not being able to find interesting posts. Even old posts, such as WillsPowers "renters" post, got moved in the shuffle. I thought it got deleted in the purge until someone else commented on it and I found it in the activity stream.

I'm not saying that I want the forums to be total anchary, because I don't. But the moderation now is too much in my opinion. We've lost long time posters and I know I don't post nearly as much as I used to. In fact, I've seriously considered leaving the forums because of it.

mikezulu1
10-27-2013, 10:57 PM
All this nostaligia about how "great" it "used to be"... guess what, things change. Deal with it. If you all put half the energy into positive contribution to the forum that you do into bitching about how awful it is...

But it guess that takes too much effort, right? Easier to just complain and sit on your ass and do nothing.

If you put half the energy into positive contribution instead of bitching about people bitching about how awful it is...

let me guess....too much effort?

imnohero
10-27-2013, 11:14 PM
at least I try.

mikezulu1
10-27-2013, 11:19 PM
ahhh censorship at its finest thanks cerberus.

Interceptor
10-27-2013, 11:45 PM
So what a perfect message board will look like? I see a lot of general complaints but I will like to see some more specific ones. For example:

1. I want to see more cursing
2. I want to feel free to talk about all pornographic topics.
3. No one should be banned no matter what

Lets hear it... Or see it...

Cerberus
10-27-2013, 11:52 PM
your welcome.

btw, mike, if you edit your posts to be intentionally profane for no purpose, you can expect them to get edited in return. Free speech comes with responsibility and consequences, you just ran smack into both. Free speech does not mean anarchy, and consequences do not equal censorship.

If you don't like this reality, go find a different one.

mikezulu1
10-27-2013, 11:57 PM
So what a perfect message board will look like? I see a lot of general complaints but I will like to see some more specific ones. For example:

1. I want to see more cursing.
Why not? who ever died from hearing shit or bitch?

2. I want to feel free to talk about all pornographic topics.
how many 12 yr olds are registered on the forum? we are all grown ups and i would wager most of us have watched porn at some point.

3. No one should be banned no matter what.
If you can take an insult or don't like what you see or hear, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. Let this place be about expression, dont like it? There are plenty of other places you can talk about military issues.

Lets hear it... Or see it...
there you go

mikezulu1
10-27-2013, 11:59 PM
your welcome.

btw, mike, if you edit your posts to be intentionally profane for no purpose, you can expect them to get edited in return. Free speech comes with responsibility and consequences, you just ran smack into both. Free speech does not mean anarchy, and consequences do not equal censorship.

If you don't like this reality, go find a different one.

how is the word "boobs" profane? maybe in a 3rd grade class room, is that where we are? and that was in sarcastic response to a moderator saying they ended/censored a thread because it was derailed by in their words "boobs". I guess humor is now moderated as well.

OH and my name is not mike. It's Zach. If you are going to call my by my screen name please use the full name. mikezulu1, thank you.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-28-2013, 12:00 AM
your welcome.

What did you edit out of mikezulu1 's post?

I did read it before you edited and although I can't remember exactly what it said, I think he used the term "lazy ass."

You felt a need to clean that up?

Cerberus
10-28-2013, 12:01 AM
It is not the word, but the action and intent behind the edit.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-28-2013, 12:05 AM
It is not the word, but the action and intent behind the edit.

Your reply makes no sense to me.

Cerberus
10-28-2013, 12:07 AM
That's because I wasn't replying to you AA. I was answering mike.

mikezulu1
10-28-2013, 12:10 AM
on page 6 a mod said they ended/censored a thread because and i quote" I observed the "Entitlements Much" thread, which aside from people getting passionate about their points of view was awesome, and went on for 20 pages without any moderator doing anything, then we started getting folks talking about boobs." so me being the smart ass that i am, in my response to imnohero edited my post and put edit to add: "boobs" i guess that made the"powers the be" upset. so much for humor i guess

UH1FE
10-28-2013, 12:20 AM
Yes boob is profane but emoticons with WHAT THE FUCK, BLOW JOB, COCK BLOCK, and THREESOME are ok?????????????????????????????????????????

Absinthe Anecdote
10-28-2013, 12:33 AM
:gay::gay::gay::fuckyou::smileysex5::smileysex5::b uttkick:

They got rid of blowjobs, but they still have anti-gay emoticons and other ones worse than the term "lazy ass" that was just edited of mikezulu1 's post.

Cerberus
10-28-2013, 12:46 AM
Very well, I'll see what I can do about removing use of emoticons on the forum.

mikezulu1
10-28-2013, 12:55 AM
:gay::gay::gay::fuckyou::smileysex5::smileysex5::b uttkick:

They got rid of blowjobs, but they still have anti-gay emoticons and other ones worse than the term "lazy ass" that was just edited of mikezulu1 's post.


(in my best al sharpton voice) The hypocrisy of our democracy!!

mikezulu1
10-28-2013, 12:59 AM
Very well, I'll see what I can do about removing use of emoticons on the forum.

With all due respect i think you have it backwards. People like the emotions and want to use them. We (or I anyways) just don't understand why you condone those, but dont allow posts that follow along the same level of offensiveness. You're going in the wrong direction, nam sayin.


edit for clarification: "nam sayin" was not intended to portray anything racist, sexist or generally offensive in nature..... So help me god.

Cerberus
10-28-2013, 01:04 AM
as it happens, I would prefer them to be removed individually. However, since I do not have administrative control over them, I can only request they be removed. The emoticons "group" have been reviewed and edited at least once already to remove things people found the most egregious. However, an attempt was made to retain as many as possible. Obviously, we need to readdress the issue.

In the meanwhile, don't be surprised if they disappear completely for a few days.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-28-2013, 01:37 AM
Cerberus

I'm not complaining about the emoticons; if anything, they are merely silly.

My point was that I found it silly that you edited the term "lazy ass" out of someone's post.

Do you think you are being too uptight about this?

RS6405
10-28-2013, 01:58 AM
I think the whole point is being lost upon the mods.

It is not a emoticon issue but a moderation issue. Where grown adults are treated like 4th graders. There are rules that are not evenly applied, and people are becoming frustrated with how you all are responding to the issues.

We are not asking for more moderation, but a reality check.

1. This is not the work place, so work place decorum is not expected.
2. Adults participate here, not children.
3. People enjoy a laugh, a rant, a debate, and even a put down now and then-- so stop hindering how things flow.
4. While it may irritate the mods, it may not irritate the masses.
5. The forum is for the masses, not the mods, so treat it as such.

Cerberus
10-28-2013, 03:01 AM
I think the whole point is being lost upon the mods.

It is not a emoticon issue but a moderation issue. Where grown adults are treated like 4th graders.

When grown adults act and speak like 4th graders, that's how they will get treated.




There are rules that are not evenly applied, and people are becoming frustrated with how you all are responding to the issues.

We are aware that there is an appearance of uneven rule enforcement. That is primarily because of the amount of activity that happens (and stays) in private. We try to apply the rules as fairly as possible, based on individual circumstances. Which is what I would hope everyone would want, rather than some sort of "zero tolerance" policy.



We are not asking for more moderation, but a reality check.

1. This is not the work place, so work place decorum is not expected.
2. Adults participate here, not children.
3. People enjoy a laugh, a rant, a debate, and even a put down now and then-- so stop hindering how things flow.
4. While it may irritate the mods, it may not irritate the masses.
5. The forum is for the masses, not the mods, so treat it as such.

To address you points:
1. No this is not the work place, but it is also not you and your buddies drunk in the garage. A certain level of public civility is expected.
2. Then they should act like adults, not children
3. Laugh, joke, friendly jabs... fine. When debates turn into calling each other bigots and race traitors (in much more colorful terms), things have crossed the line.
4. No one knows what "irritates the masses"... we can only guess. What we (the mods) know is that you and about 4 or 5 other people don't like having us here, period. It doesn't matter what we do, you will complain and purposely violate the rules, just to irritate us.
5. Exactly, maybe some others should treat it that way as well.

Finally, you will note that the forum administrator has removed himself from the daily activity of the forum. in part, so that he can be a somewhat objective observer to moderator activities and objections to same. Feel free to send Bourne a private message.

RS6405
10-28-2013, 08:42 AM
When grown adults act and speak like 4th graders, that's how they will get treated.

We are aware that there is an appearance of uneven rule enforcement. That is primarily because of the amount of activity that happens (and stays) in private. We try to apply the rules as fairly as possible, based on individual circumstances. Which is what I would hope everyone would want, rather than some sort of "zero tolerance" policy.


To address you points:
1. No this is not the work place, but it is also not you and your buddies drunk in the garage. A certain level of public civility is expected.
2. Then they should act like adults, not children
3. Laugh, joke, friendly jabs... fine. When debates turn into calling each other bigots and race traitors (in much more colorful terms), things have crossed the line.
4. No one knows what "irritates the masses"... we can only guess. What we (the mods) know is that you and about 4 or 5 other people don't like having us here, period. It doesn't matter what we do, you will complain and purposely violate the rules, just to irritate us.
5. Exactly, maybe some others should treat it that way as well.

Finally, you will note that the forum administrator has removed himself from the daily activity of the forum. in part, so that he can be a somewhat objective observer to moderator activities and objections to same. Feel free to send Bourne a private message.

I respectfully disagree that everyone acts like 4th graders, or that most members act like they would if they were drunk in their garage. I would admit to some drunk posting, and we have had some funny result posts as a result.

The point about not being a workplace is that this place should be more relaxed instead of regulated.

We both agree on the racists comments should be dealt with; however, when there are public warnings for some infraction and alleged private warnings for racists comments then there is an appearance of unequal application of the rules.

RS6405
10-28-2013, 09:08 AM
Also....No, I will not send Bourne a private message. I have no faith or trust in him as a result of his prior actions. I will not participate in an exercise of pointless futility.

I have bothered directing my statements you mods in general, because you all have not lost that aspect.

However, I do agree with his previous statement though, when he said he killed this forum. Yet, that is just my personal opinion.

technomage1
10-28-2013, 09:16 AM
So in the last few pages we've had two people use a "colorful" term in the - and I did read the unedited version- same vein. One had his comments edited, the other did not.

We've had someone point out the emoticons were worse than the language and the response was the emoticons would going away.

Add in seemingly random post movings and you have a great representation of why the forums have blown chunks lately.

Mjölnir
10-28-2013, 09:44 AM
I respectfully disagree that everyone acts like 4th graders, or that most members act like they would if they were drunk in their garage. I would admit to some drunk posting, and we have had some funny result posts as a result.

The point about not being a workplace is that this place should be more relaxed instead of regulated.

We both agree on the racists comments should be dealt with; however, when there are public warnings for some infraction and alleged private warnings for racists comments then there is an appearance of unequal application of the rules.

No, not everyone does act like a 4th grader or they are drunk in their garage, or a drunk 4th grader in a garage. But for some time the same small group of people were the ones disrupting threads where other users were trying to have legitimate conversations or debates. As I have said, there are places for that on this forum and others, all that has been asked here is to keep it in the right place.

I can say that I have used public warnings when a user has ignored private warnings, sometimes it has worked and sometimes it has not.

I have told many people this is one of 3 forums I moderate, one other with military content, one on Tolkien. The other military one has a much different set of rules than this forum and as such the posts and threads are different (more edgy than here); the Tolkien one is a bit more tame.
RS6405, about your previous points (from my point of view):

1. This is not the work place, so work place decorum is not expected.
You are right, but a certain level of decorum IS expected. From the Guidelines:

The Golden Rule
A good rule of thumb is to never say something in the message boards that you wouldn't say in front of a group of people, or face-to-face.

2. Adults participate here, not children.
Fair enough, most get this right. Some don't and are asked to cut it out, when they don't ...

3. People enjoy a laugh, a rant, a debate, and even a put down now and then-- so stop hindering how things flow.
Also fair enough, but when the laugh, rant or put down is the thing hindering the flow it is disruptive and not in keeping with the Guidelines:

Disruption
You're welcome to voice your opinion here, and it would be a boring place if you didn't. But if you disagree with a comment that's been made, keep it civil. Posts designed to instigate or disrupt discussions or that contain offensive material may be removed, along with other messages posted in response. Please don't use obscene or offensive language, hate speech or engage in personal attacks of other members. Bashing services on branch-specific forums or any forum is not acceptable within our communities. Posts made with the intent to belittle, harass or otherwise disrupt a community will be removed. Repeated instances of such harassment and disruption may result in a revocation of posting privileges.

4. While it may irritate the mods, it may not irritate the masses.
Also true. There are comments that I don't personally like but is not violating the guidelines, I don't do anything with this type of content.

5. The forum is for the masses, not the mods, so treat it as such.
But, the 'masses' also have to follow the rules. Granted, those rules were not enforced for some time and a small group of users in effect subjugated the Forums to nothing disrupted content. I have gone back and read many of those posts where the same users complaining now were complaining about the disruption then. But as a result of the lengthy period of not enforcing the Guidelines, the masses got used to that. Some don't like it now and as someone said earlier, they may "take their ball and go home". I hope that they don't, but if they do I can't really control that either.

I do as a moderator, try to communicate about why I may have done something or not, or to answer questions and encourage anyone with a question or comment to PM me or start a thread.

Someone earlier brought up the quantity of activity on the boards vs. the quality of activity and I said I think this Forum is going to a hybrid of that vice just trying for a high volume of posts & threads. While not being 'in the know', I say that in part since the Forum Admin (the only paid employee of Gannett) is willing to allow some of the highest-volume posters to be banned which undoubtedly will lower overall activity on the Forums.

Monkey
10-28-2013, 01:00 PM
Maybe this question was answered when I was away, but what prompted to crackdown? Did MTF reach out for moderators to come in and clean the place up? Did they actively recruit the current moderators? Or was this a matter of members within the community who were fed up and sought out the roles?

UncaRastus
10-28-2013, 01:22 PM
Monkey,

We are not a bunch of people that were fed up, and asked to moderate, and then were chosen to do so. Our role was decided by our actions within the MTF, as to wanting the TOS to be upheld, or at least to tone down some of the disruptive action taking place in the MTF. Then, we were contacted, and asked if we would consider becoming moderators.

We were given a timeframe to accept or to decline moderatorhood. Since then, we have been tasked with watching the threads, moving them to other places more appropriate for them, to warn, then to infract some of the posters for constant breaking of the TOS. After a certain amount of infractions have been levied, if there is no change in the postings offered by that individual, anything from a short ban on up to a full time ban is issued, preferably a short time ban to start off the banning process.

I hope that this answers your question. I know that I have expanded a bit on the answer, to let you know of the processes being employed.

Also, come to think of it, the posters that are warned or infracted are usually contacted privately to give them a chance to clean up their actions. After a certain amount of personal contacts being made, they know why they have been warned or infracted, and PMs become redundant.

sandsjames
10-28-2013, 01:45 PM
Monkey,

We are not a bunch of people that were fed up, and asked to moderate, and then were chosen to do so. Our role was decided by our actions within the MTF, as to wanting the TOS to be upheld, or at least to tone down some of the disruptive action taking place in the MTF. Then, we were contacted, and asked if we would consider becoming moderators.

We were given a timeframe to accept or to decline moderatorhood. Since then, we have been tasked with watching the threads, moving them to other places more appropriate for them, to warn, then to infract some of the posters for constant breaking of the TOS. After a certain amount of infractions have been levied, if there is no change in the postings offered by that individual, anything from a short ban on up to a full time ban is issued, preferably a short time ban to start off the banning process.

I hope that this answers your question. I know that I have expanded a bit on the answer, to let you know of the processes being employed.

Also, come to think of it, the posters that are warned or infracted are usually contacted privately to give them a chance to clean up their actions. After a certain amount of personal contacts being made, they know why they have been warned or infracted, and PMs become redundant.

I see...that makes sense. So you're like the MSgt nobody in the squadron likes, so the dumbass Chief puts you in a position to make everyone's life miserable and tells you it's an "opportunity to excel". Got it.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
10-29-2013, 12:08 AM
I highly suspect CrustySMSgt and some other Chiefs or retired Chiefs are now moderators.

Gonzo432
10-29-2013, 12:12 AM
I highly suspect CrustySMSgt and some other Chiefs or retired Chiefs are now moderators.

Is that a conspiracy hypothesis?

Capt Alfredo
10-29-2013, 01:07 AM
Is Tak banned forever (again) or what? Seems like he's been gone awhile. Don't know what the bannings go for these days.

Bunch
10-29-2013, 01:08 AM
I highly suspect CrustySMSgt and some other Chiefs or retired Chiefs are now moderators.

You mean enlisted plebs running the MTF's?!!! No way!!!

Chief_KO
10-29-2013, 01:50 AM
I highly suspect CrustySMSgt and some other Chiefs or retired Chiefs are now moderators.

Not this retired Chief...I got more important things to do with my free time

Absinthe Anecdote
10-29-2013, 01:57 AM
I actually think one of Tak's split personalities is a moderator.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
10-29-2013, 02:16 AM
I suspect PYB, Smarg and WillPowers are moderators. Am I wrong Crusty (now secret moderator)?

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
10-29-2013, 02:19 AM
I actually think one of Tak's split personalities is a moderator.

No way. TAK is at home going through serious MTF withdrawal. I hate to admit it, but TAK has done more to keep the MTF alive than anyone else I can think of in the past 6 months. I say UN-ban him.

technomage1
10-29-2013, 06:21 AM
I actually think one of Tak's split personalities is a moderator.

Next time, on "As The Forum Turns"....

Absinthe Anecdote
10-29-2013, 10:07 AM
Next time, on "As The Forum Turns"....

That would make a very snappy thread title, but I have no idea which section it should go in.

20+Years
10-29-2013, 12:47 PM
That would make a very snappy thread title, but I have no idea which section it should go in.

No worries, one of the moderators will move it anyways.

Kalbo607
10-31-2013, 11:50 AM
I for one will miss the postings of TAK and whatever happen to PYB?

AJBIGJ
10-31-2013, 03:31 PM
3581Sometimes, word do not suffice...

Vrake
10-31-2013, 03:32 PM
I for one will miss the postings of TAK and whatever happen to PYB?

He is in banned camp too after cussing out a few people and made a grand exit.

BRUWIN
10-31-2013, 03:59 PM
Monkey,

We are not a bunch of people that were fed up, and asked to moderate, and then were chosen to do so. Our role was decided by our actions within the MTF, as to wanting the TOS to be upheld, or at least to tone down some of the disruptive action taking place in the MTF. Then, we were contacted, and asked if we would consider becoming moderators.

We were given a timeframe to accept or to decline moderatorhood. Since then, we have been tasked with watching the threads, moving them to other places more appropriate for them, to warn, then to infract some of the posters for constant breaking of the TOS. After a certain amount of infractions have been levied, if there is no change in the postings offered by that individual, anything from a short ban on up to a full time ban is issued, preferably a short time ban to start off the banning process.

I hope that this answers your question. I know that I have expanded a bit on the answer, to let you know of the processes being employed.

Also, come to think of it, the posters that are warned or infracted are usually contacted privately to give them a chance to clean up their actions. After a certain amount of personal contacts being made, they know why they have been warned or infracted, and PMs become redundant.

So you guys are kinda like the volunteer ropes we had in AF tech schools. I hated those guys and the ass kissing mo-fos they would all eventually turn out to be. They would start off with good intentions and then start drinking the nazi Kool-Aid. I bet you newly minted "moderators" are carving notches in your computer desk with every ban.

Let me say this...if you Mods ever consider a ban on me I won't go down without a fight. You will be answering to higher ups. Consider yourselves warned.

imnohero
10-31-2013, 04:43 PM
Answer to who exactly? The newly formed Government Oversight and Independent Review Board of Internet Forum Bans and Suspensions?

Otherwise known as: GOIRBIFBS

LOL

Greg
10-31-2013, 05:05 PM
.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-31-2013, 06:15 PM
So you guys are kinda like the volunteer ropes we had in AF tech schools. I hated those guys and the ass kissing mo-fos they would all eventually turn out to be. They would start off with good intentions and then start drinking the nazi Kool-Aid. I bet you newly minted "moderators" are carving notches in your computer desk with every ban.

Let me say this...if you Mods ever consider a ban on me I won't go down without a fight. You will be answering to higher ups. Consider yourselves warned.

I think you should start your own group of renegade moderators. You wouldn't have any real powers to do anything but you could just go around and tattle on people for minor infractions.

BRUWIN
10-31-2013, 07:43 PM
I think you should start your own group of renegade moderators. You wouldn't have any real powers to do anything but you could just go around and tattle on people for minor infractions.

Tattling is not part of my reportoire'. I will say this though...if I were a Mod I would be banning most of the goody two-shoes that show up in here. I would lifetime ban the Navy people that have ever posted in this forum. A few Marines and Army would make it past my initial scrub but I'm sure they'd eventually land on my shit list for saying something totally stupid. Most of the AF members would fare well since we are the ones that have even half a clue what we're talking about. I saw Will Powers post here the other day...he'd be walking a tightrope with me but even he acts like rocket scientist compared to some of the assclowns that show up here and start acting all Mr Military.

Capt Alfredo
10-31-2013, 10:21 PM
I guess Tak is permanently banned now. Pretty weak violation for that kind of punishment. I get he could go a little overboard, but at the end of the day, this is kind of his on-line home.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-31-2013, 11:24 PM
Tattling is not part of my reportoire'. I will say this though...if I were a Mod I would be banning most of the goody two-shoes that show up in here. I would lifetime ban the Navy people that have ever posted in this forum. A few Marines and Army would make it past my initial scrub but I'm sure they'd eventually land on my shit list for saying something totally stupid. Most of the AF members would fare well since we are the ones that have even half a clue what we're talking about. I saw Will Powers post here the other day...he'd be walking a tightrope with me but even he acts like rocket scientist compared to some of the assclowns that show up here and start acting all Mr Military.

Don't sell yourself short, you'd make an excellent tattler. I'm guessing you were a tech school rope from the way you talk about how you would handle the forums.

You can't teach that kind of strategic thinking, you either have it or you don't.

Gonzo432
10-31-2013, 11:38 PM
No way. TAK is at home going through serious MTF withdrawal. I hate to admit it, but TAK has done more to keep the MTF alive than anyone else I can think of in the past 6 months. I say UN-ban him.

Maybe Tak is in an on-line (what's the Internet forum addition treatment program that's like methadone only its on-line??) program.

BENDER56
11-01-2013, 02:48 PM
... we were contacted, and asked if we would consider becoming moderators.

Okay. So who was it that contacted you?

AlexCross
11-01-2013, 02:54 PM
Okay. So who was it that contacted you?

The SuperMod from on high.

BRUWIN
11-01-2013, 06:06 PM
How long does an "infraction" stay on my record? Does my car insurance now go up?

Mjölnir
11-01-2013, 06:30 PM
Not sure. Using the mod control panel I can see infractions back to 2008 on some users.

Gonzo432
11-01-2013, 11:59 PM
Not sure. Using the mod control panel I can see infractions back to 2008 on some users.

No statute of limitations?

BRUWIN
11-02-2013, 01:58 AM
Not sure. Using the mod control panel I can see infractions back to 2008 on some users.

Well I say - well one guess one need to behave better. One is sorry. Goodness me...this is spiffing. Must say....How smashing it is to chat with a moderator! Have a divine day. Until we chinwag again....Tally ho!

Mjölnir
11-02-2013, 07:53 AM
No statute of limitations?

None of the moderators have gone back and given infractions on things that were posted prior to us becoming moderators. But we can see infractions that were given by previous admins / moderators.

It is also an easy tool to use to track a series of infractions, which could lead to a ban not based solely on a single infraction but a sum of the whole.

BENDER56
11-02-2013, 01:36 PM
The SuperMod from on high.

I don't know if that's a facetious answer or not.

Seriously, who is it that's running this show? What does the organizational chart for the MTF Forums look like? You don't have to give names, but I'd like real answers. Is it someone from Gannett?

UH1FE
11-02-2013, 02:18 PM
You know MTF has screwed the pooch when the most happening discussion day after day after day is "TAK IS BANNED?". So much for all that moderating to keep people on topic because there is almost no other topics that people want to discuss.

Cerberus
11-02-2013, 03:16 PM
I don't know if that's a facetious answer or not.

Seriously, who is it that's running this show?

Not you.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-02-2013, 03:20 PM
You know MTF has screwed the pooch when the most happening discussion day after day after day is "TAK IS BANNED?". So much for all that moderating to keep people on topic because there is almost no other topics that people want to discuss.

I think you are right.

Perhaps, we should create a gigantic "super thread" that contains all things related to Tak, but also have it encompass all other subjects.

This "super thread" should contain a photo of Tak in the OP and some kind of squirrely mission statement that usurps the relevance of all other threads.

That's what I think.

BENDER56
11-02-2013, 03:46 PM
Not you.

Wow.

Did you think that was funny?

I think I'm asking a reasonable question and I don't appreciate your response.

Mjölnir
11-02-2013, 04:44 PM
What does the organizational chart for the MTF Forums look like? You don't have to give names, but I'd like real answer Is it someone from Gannett?

The is one Forum Administrator and a small number of moderators.


You know MTF has screwed the pooch when the most happening discussion day after day after day is "TAK IS BANNED?". So much for all that moderating to keep people on topic because there is almost no other topics that people want to discuss.

I disagree, right now there are multiple active threads ranging from politics, to aircraft being retired, to equal opportunity training. You could try using the NEW ACTIVITY tab or WHAT'S NEW.

As this thread has answered the original issue or question of a user banning and is turning more into another thread on moderation, I am closing this thread.

What does it mean to be off-topic?
Some boards are for discussing current news and politics, while others are for chitchat. Posts that do not fall within the topic presented in the first post of the thread can disrupt discussions. (For example, a post about what cell phone plans are good if you deploy overseas is off-topic in a conversation about the Secretary of Defense resigning. True story, btw.) Please read the first post and other posts to get an idea of what the conversation is about before you post. Off-topic posts and their responses may be removed without notification.