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View Full Version : Rather Than Censor, Why Don't We Just move Especially Trollish Posts here?



AJBIGJ
10-24-2013, 01:13 AM
Seems to me fairly straightforward, if a poster places content the mods do not approve of, they can just move those posts over into here rather than shut down an entire thread regardless of the other content. So if someone mentions "Tig Ol' Bitties" and the mods happen to not approve of the context, they can just slide those comments over here, as a silent reprimand, rather than an in-your-face attempt to shut the person down. Kind of like a penalty box, really!

UncaRastus
10-24-2013, 11:52 AM
And the same can continue. Trolllish posts must be stoppped in their tracks, not moved about.

AJBIGJ
10-24-2013, 12:08 PM
And the same can continue. Trolllish posts must be stoppped in their tracks, not moved about.

Boy, you may have to shut down quite a few good threads if this is the going in mentality. If the criteria now is what I've seen very recently, at least. That's a shame because I think a lot of interesting posters may have decided to just put their heads back in the shells, so to speak, after seeing such activity occur. I for one am all for keeping discussions civil where possible, but I don't think this "scorched Earth" approach of taking out both the good and the bad simultaneously will accomplish this without unintended consequences.

UncaRastus
10-24-2013, 12:16 PM
A few gentle warnings were posted in that thread, and a few infractions given, to no avail. When the posters continue on with disruptive language and/or personal attacks against another poster, we do our job.

When the topic goes off topic, and there is no trend to bring it back to the topic, action must be taken.

When all three occur, a closure of that thread is inevitable.

AJBIGJ
10-24-2013, 12:27 PM
A few gentle warnings were posted in that thread, and a few infractions given, to no avail. When the posters continue on with disruptive language and/or personal attacks against another poster, we do our job.

When the topic goes off topic, and there is no trend to bring it back to the topic, action must be taken.

When all three occur, a closure of that thread is inevitable.

My concern is that it also cut short the remaining content of that thread along with the bad. If you slid those crap squabbles over into here and shut these threads down instead nobody would probably notice other than the offenders themselves. When others of us are put in the position of creating new threads just to keep a positive and interesting discussion going, it won't be universally well-received.

UncaRastus
10-24-2013, 12:33 PM
Noted, AJ.

Mjölnir
10-24-2013, 12:33 PM
Seems to me fairly straightforward, if a poster places content the mods do not approve of, they can just move those posts over into here rather than shut down an entire thread regardless of the other content. So if someone mentions "Tig Ol' Bitties" and the mods happen to not approve of the context, they can just slide those comments over here, as a silent reprimand, rather than an in-your-face attempt to shut the person down. Kind of like a penalty box, really!

AJ,

I have looked into something like you suggest but the current controls only let a moderator merge threads, not selectively move out a block of or specific posts. The only real option a moderator has with specific posts is to delete or edit.

Also, I probably would not use the "Wall o' Shame" for it, the WoS was intended more for Stolen Valor type issues. But, if I find a way to do it I will call it "Penalty Box" and give you credit.

AJBIGJ
10-24-2013, 12:37 PM
AJ,

I have looked into something like you suggest but the current controls only let a moderator merge threads, not selectively move out a block of or specific posts. The only real option a moderator has with specific posts is to delete or edit.

Also, I probably would not use the "Wall o' Shame" for it, the WoS was intended more for Stolen Valor type issues. But, if I find a way to do it I will call it "Penalty Box" and give you credit.

Fair enough, website mechanics is an acceptable reason certainly! I wouldn't care so much about the credit itself, but it makes me feel much better that you all are willing to explore the idea.

AJBIGJ
10-24-2013, 12:41 PM
Fair enough, website mechanics is an acceptable reason certainly! I wouldn't care so much about the credit itself, but it makes me feel much better that you all are willing to explore the idea.

If you could slide this thread into there first if you did discover the capability (or have the right admin privileges granted to mods). I started this thread well into my cups of egg nog and didn't really look at the rest of the content the "Wall of Shame" contained when I first posted in here!

Mjölnir
10-24-2013, 12:42 PM
I will play around with some of the controls some more, I may have missed something.

Trust me, I enjoyed the first 22 or 23 pages of that thread, and as UncaRastus said, some warnings we're put out and even in the thread.

20+Years
10-24-2013, 12:45 PM
So the most interesting thread to be seen here in a while was closed? Color me surprised.

How about we take care of the users that misbehave and not punish everyone?

Oh, and my definition of "misbehave" is not posting off-topic. Some great conversations have happened from threads that evolved.

In my best moderator voice, "But that is not allowed. Return to topic. If you want to discuss that, start a new thread. You can't do it in here, because I said so. And go eat your green beans and take out the trash."

Personally, I think the moderators should have less opinion on the content of a thread, but more on the content of the poster. You let certain users call names, make inflammatory comments towards others, but oh no, "an opinion off the original topic??? This must be stopped"!

Just my 2 cents.

AJBIGJ
10-24-2013, 12:50 PM
I will play around with some of the controls some more, I may have missed something.

Trust me, I enjoyed the first 22 or 23 pages of that thread, and as UncaRastus said, some warnings we're put out and even in the thread.

I saw it as well, I'd envision a scenario where someone throws out "racist" or something similar suddenly finds their post has magically been transported under a new, slightly more shameful topic header. If their counterpart wishes to continue that line of discussion they are free to do so under the limitations of the TOS. If and when the subject content does cross the line you would be able to respond in kind and shut down that thread which to begin with was already created under dubious circumstances.

Meanwhile, the remainder who preferred the civil, intelligent conversation of the original thread would possibly even be oblivious towards whether any actual trolling occurred, and be able to continue in the discussions we were actively engaged with unhindered.

UncaRastus
10-24-2013, 12:59 PM
AJ,

What you say does have some value. However, the posters that got their postings removed would just jump back in at some wee hour of the morning, and complain about how they are being treated meanly.

This is a never ending wrestling match.

AJBIGJ
10-24-2013, 01:13 PM
AJ,

What you say does have some value. However, the posters that got their postings removed would just jump back in at some wee hour of the morning, and complain about how they are being treated meanly.

This is a never ending wrestling match.

I sympathize your situation, and don't envy the position you're put into here. I've had to dole out disciplinary action both as a father and a leader in the military, it is generally not very well-received by the recipients. I just remind myself though, they took the actions that brought on the consequences, it's not just me doing it to be mean. If the recipients here do likewise, so be it, this site will never satisfy everyone. I would encourage you as moderators taking actions to be conscientious of the collateral effects those actions might have though, and I'm not saying you're not already, but it already appears from that other thread I created that I am not alone in being unhappy with the shutdown of the Entitlements thread in such a fashion. If there is an alternative way to both corral the trolls while allowing the good stuff to continue I highly recommend we employ that.

sandsjames
10-24-2013, 01:25 PM
AJ,

What you say does have some value. However, the posters that got their postings removed would just jump back in at some wee hour of the morning, and complain about how they are being treated meanly.

This is a never ending wrestling match.

No it's not. What ends it is the mods showing some common sense.

Mjölnir
10-24-2013, 01:27 PM
I went back and looked and see that the previous Admin/Mod closed threads that got into the same level of irrelivence, name calling / attacking etc. After posting a warning in the thread the thread continued to disolve. I closed the thread and then took some time to look at the posts, issue warnings & infractions to those that took it down the path it went and have merged it with the replacement thread and reopened it.

AJBIGJ
10-24-2013, 01:30 PM
I went back and looked and see that the previous Admin/Mod closed threads that got into the same level of irrelivence, name calling / attacking etc. After posting a warning in the thread the thread continued to disolve. I closed the thread and then took some time to look at the posts, issue warnings & infractions to those that took it down the path it went and have merged it with the replacement thread and reopened it.

That all makes sense from my perspective, I think if you can make the "penalty box" idea work, it might circumvent a lot of the unintended consequences of disciplinary action, if site mechanics allow such a thing.

Mjölnir
10-24-2013, 01:35 PM
True enough.

Part of me likes it in lieu of warnings / infractions, but I also prefer to scold in private, until that doesn't work then I get a bit more vocal or public.

Part of me does like the warning / infraction system, since I can go back and look at what someone has received warnings / infractions for over long periods of time and while I can use the Moderator Control Panel to look at deleted or the original versions of edited posts, the infraction system saves time. In military speak, I would almost compare it to a formal counseling, making a record of a warning, so I have something to refer back to if needed.

AJBIGJ
10-24-2013, 01:43 PM
True enough.

Part of me likes it in lieu of warnings / infractions, but I also prefer to scold in private, until that doesn't work then I get a bit more vocal or public.

Part of me does like the warning / infraction system, since I can go back and look at what someone has received warnings / infractions for over long periods of time and while I can use the Moderator Control Panel to look at deleted or the original versions of edited posts, the infraction system saves time. In military speak, I would almost compare it to a formal counseling, making a record of a warning, so I have something to refer back to if needed.

All of the above I think have a certain value. I tend to work a lot with Navy Damage Control, in that field at least, and force protection I believe as well, where there just isn't a good opportunity to deal with things privately and for the persons and everyone's safety you have to correct the deficiency publicly. Which isn't to say safety is really an issue on a website, but sometimes it really will take a little more public of an acostment to get a troll's attention. If the person sees their posts get moved somewhere, it will imply the content is already borderline, no further words need be spoken if the individual is semi-intelligent.