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veritas
10-14-2013, 07:41 PM
Its Monday morning, just a few months ago the Air Force section alone would have two pages of new topics and hundreds if not thousands of total replies. It was a fun place to come comment, we had a wide variety of users, most were of the comedic variety but when someone needed a real answer to a real question or problem, they were always given good advice.

Why would this site abandon its followers, throw away it's primary users (yes i know there are two are three who love the new simplistic bore of the forums, I'm not talking to you). It's time to own up to your mistake and admit the new "direction" of the forum was an bad idea, one not thought through or given much consideration to the implications that would follow. The entire forums have now become irrelevant; the forums that just a few months ago we're thriving.

In the words of Hollywood, this show has jumped the shark, trying to become something it is not, and never will be, and in the process it now has lost everything.

I doubt the forums would ever be able to recover from the gross mismanagement and idiotic moderating that has become the norm, but if it will ever return to its glory days it's time to stop moving posts, stop censoring posts, stop bending to the whims and whines of the few, let them man up or find a forum that will hurt their delicate un-military feelings.


What the forums use to be

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Happy_days_1976_fonzies_apartment.JPG/455px-Happy_days_1976_fonzies_apartment.JPG



What the forums have become

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/09/21/1226472/567739-fonz.jpg

raustin0017
10-14-2013, 07:57 PM
And he keeps his hair dry ^^^

efmbman
10-14-2013, 09:24 PM
...let them man up or find a forum...

Do you see the irony?

technomage1
10-14-2013, 09:42 PM
I have to admit, not even the rep wars managed to wipe out to the forum as much as -well, whatever is gong on here now has.

veritas
10-14-2013, 09:56 PM
and in an effort to show their mighty mod power, without thinking or taking helpful criticism of their mismanagement of the forums...they moved the thread

You have alienated your customers and drove away any new ones, you should be fired.


p.s.

You moved it to the questions sections, do you see a fucking question anywhere?

RobotChicken
10-14-2013, 10:03 PM
I have to admit, not even the rep wars managed to wipe out to the forum as much as -well, whatever is gong on here now has.

Concur

RobotChicken
10-14-2013, 10:04 PM
and in an effort to show their mighty mod power, without thinking or taking helpful criticism of their mismanagement of the forums...they moved the thread

You have alienated your customers and drove away any new ones, you should be fired.


p.s.

You moved it to the questions sections, do you see a fucking question anywhere?

Concur

Mjölnir
10-14-2013, 10:05 PM
Trust me, I and the other mods are listening to what people are saying. Admittedly, I pay more attention to suggestions that are a bit more suggestive as less of a rant.

That said, This was not related to the forum you originally posted the thread in, "Questions" is where issues on moderation(the subject of your thread) have been, therefore it was moved. If you have any questions or want to discuss, feel free to PM me.

RobotChicken
10-14-2013, 10:05 PM
Do you see the irony?
Concur

veritas
10-14-2013, 10:08 PM
maybe the mods can tell us why they ruined the forum? Do they work for another forum? paid off to destroy this one? I'm really interested why a small group of a few incompetent mods would destroy this place? Perhaps you are so incompetent that you still think what you did was a good idea? The mods here should change their names to "tea party". One small group of ignorant extremist destroying what they are not intellectually capable of understanding

Mjölnir
10-14-2013, 10:11 PM
Wait, people get paid to be moderators? Damn.

sandsjames
10-14-2013, 10:15 PM
maybe the mods can tell us why they ruined the forum? Do they work for another forum? paid off to destroy this one? I'm really interested why a small group of a few incompetent mods would destroy this place? Perhaps you are so incompetent that you still think what you did was a good idea? The mods here should change their names to "tea party". One small group of ignorant extremist destroying what they are not intellectually capable of understanding

It's like when a new NCOIC comes into a shop and changes everything immediately. Before, the shop was fine, everything took care of itself. Now, the shop is tentative and has no cohesion. Then, the new NCOIC, who fucked up the shop, gets moved into a Superintendent position to fuck up the entire flight.

veritas
10-14-2013, 10:18 PM
Wait, people get paid to be moderators? Damn.

That's even worse, getting paid to ruin a place would make sense.

imnohero
10-14-2013, 10:28 PM
Really, Veritas...didn't the mods help you out just a couple weeks ago when you posted some wild ass rant about work? Guess you would have prefered that thread be left up, right?

Or maybe you're just drunk right now.

Mjölnir
10-14-2013, 10:36 PM
Before, the shop was fine, everything took care of itself.

I think a fair number of people didn't think things were fine though.

As I said to veritas earlier, I for one am definitely open to suggestions; but I am more likely to take you seriously if you have a conversation vice a rant, profanity laced post or PM, use slurs etc.

imnohero
10-14-2013, 10:45 PM
Aw...what's the matter chicken...don't like the truth?

RobotChicken
10-14-2013, 10:57 PM
Really, Veritas...didn't the mods help you out just a couple weeks ago when you posted some wild ass rant about work? Guess you would have prefered that thread be left up, right?

Or maybe you're just drunk right now.

:spy"These LOW & CHEAP SHOTS when you Loose a debate on a subject when referring to booze,meds, or street stuff is 'tack-less', a clear assault of a members character, 'maybe overlooked' by some as 'in good fun'; but I personally do not, for an insult is an insult with a mean intent backing it up, just another school house bully want for attention." (And all this time I was led to believe this was an 'Adult' Forum)

imnohero
10-14-2013, 11:02 PM
LOL. Wondering if someone is drunk is an assault on their character?

I notice you ignore the actual point of the post....that Veritas is bitching about the people the helped him out just recently.

imnohero
10-14-2013, 11:04 PM
as to "adult"... you should try it yourself. I know you think you're clever with all the emoticons and quotes and whatever...but your as transparent as plastic wrap.

RobotChicken
10-14-2013, 11:06 PM
Aw...what's the matter chicken...don't like the truth?

"I will not get baited into a debate with you over our opinions SIR; seeing I have 0 support on this Forum from anyone for anything as recent 'history' has proved. So go and have a peaceful day on me since I did all I could to keep every ones blood pressure down."

Mjölnir
10-14-2013, 11:30 PM
You guys debate all you want, just stay within the Guidelines you agreed to when you joined the Forums, specifically:

Graphic sexual language and images
Graphic sexual language and images are not acceptable. Find another site for that. Posts will be removed with posting privileges suspended should your word choice and/or photos become too graphic. Social norms are the accepted guideline here, but as with all things in these forums, we have the final say.

Hyperlinks
Including links to informative and helpful sites is part of Internet communication. Choosing to click on a link is your decision. We do not screen links. However, posts may be removed if a hyperlink is not in the following format -- www.wheredoesthislinkgo.com or .org or any number of acceptable addresses. The key here is no hidden agendas. Tell us where the link goes so our members may make informed decisions on whether to click or not. Remember: We do not screen links in posts, but may remove a post if the link is determined to be inappropriate.

Mild vulgarity
We don't really mind mild profanity. We've been known to let one fly, ourselves. However, if it becomes excessive or you direct it at another person, that's no good.

sandsjames
10-14-2013, 11:34 PM
"I will not get baited into a debate with you over our opinions SIR; seeing I have 0 support on this Forum from anyone for anything as recent 'history' has proved. So go and have a peaceful day on me since I did all I could to keep every ones blood pressure down."

I support you RC...and I'm hurt that you didn't know that.

sandsjames
10-14-2013, 11:38 PM
You guys debate all you want, just stay within the Guidelines you agreed to when you joined the Forums, specifically:

Graphic sexual language and images
Graphic sexual language and images are not acceptable. Find another site for that. Posts will be removed with posting privileges suspended should your word choice and/or photos become too graphic. Social norms are the accepted guideline here, but as with all things in these forums, we have the final say.

Hyperlinks
Including links to informative and helpful sites is part of Internet communication. Choosing to click on a link is your decision. We do not screen links. However, posts may be removed if a hyperlink is not in the following format -- www.wheredoesthislinkgo.com or .org or any number of acceptable addresses. The key here is no hidden agendas. Tell us where the link goes so our members may make informed decisions on whether to click or not. Remember: We do not screen links in posts, but may remove a post if the link is determined to be inappropriate.

Mild vulgarity
We don't really mind mild profanity. We've been known to let one fly, ourselves. However, if it becomes excessive or you direct it at another person, that's no good.

Why is there an issue with profanity? I'm really, really confused about it. Aren't we all adults here?

Or is this all an issue because this is a "military" forum and "civilians" may get a bad image? I just don't understand. I've tried to figure it out, but am at a total loss. Or is it just a rule because "foul language" is something traditionally frowned upon?

Bunch
10-15-2013, 12:20 AM
Its Monday morning, just a few months ago the Air Force section alone would have two pages of new topics and hundreds if not thousands of total replies. It was a fun place to come comment, we had a wide variety of users, most were of the comedic variety but when someone needed a real answer to a real question or problem, they were always given good advice.

Why would this site abandon its followers, throw away it's primary users (yes i know there are two are three who love the new simplistic bore of the forums, I'm not talking to you). It's time to own up to your mistake and admit the new "direction" of the forum was an bad idea, one not thought through or given much consideration to the implications that would follow. The entire forums have now become irrelevant; the forums that just a few months ago we're thriving.

In the words of Hollywood, this show has jumped the shark, trying to become something it is not, and never will be, and in the process it now has lost everything.

I doubt the forums would ever be able to recover from the gross mismanagement and idiotic moderating that has become the norm, but if it will ever return to its glory days it's time to stop moving posts, stop censoring posts, stop bending to the whims and whines of the few, let them man up or find a forum that will hurt their delicate un-military feelings.


What the forums use to be

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Happy_days_1976_fonzies_apartment.JPG/455px-Happy_days_1976_fonzies_apartment.JPG



What the forums have become

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/09/21/1226472/567739-fonz.jpg

I put the blame on the PT test. Basically all the people that came here to complain are either retired, separated or adjusted so no reason to come here anymore.

Mjölnir
10-15-2013, 12:44 AM
Why is there an issue with profanity? I'm really, really confused about it. Aren't we all adults here?

Or is this all an issue because this is a "military" forum and "civilians" may get a bad image? I just don't understand. I've tried to figure it out, but am at a total loss. Or is it just a rule because "foul language" is something traditionally frowned upon?

In all honesty I don't know the 'why'. I am going to pull a quote of yours from a different thread to address my opinion


The question is why are the rules written as they are? In my opinion, they are the way they are because that's the way most other places do it, so this place falls in line.

If I had to guess, I would remember that the editors of the Military Times publications used to very regularly pull comments from these Forums for publication & excessive profanity, sexual content etc. would not have gone well for publication without editing that would cloud the message. It may be because as you said "foul language is something traditionally frowned upon." It may be someone copied and pasted the majority of the Guidelines from another Forum. In my opinion just because "we are all adults" doesn't mean the Forums have to be R rated. Even with that being my opinion, I don't care about profanity just don't be excessive or personal.

The guidelines for a long time got ignored, it stymied conversations, derailed 'legitimate' threads, and actually drove people away (yes, post counts were up, but by the participation of a very small portion of the community). Some don't like going back to a moderated forum and being required to adhere to the Guidelines that they agreed to when they joined. But I never thought I would make everyone happy by being a Moderator anyway. I have recently noticed posts from users who registered and lurked for years with 10 or 20 posts over that time. It may not be a direct result of the changes, but I think it has some part. It is true, new user registration has been disabled since AUG. That is a separate issue.

For me, if you want things to change, let's talk; I am all ears. If you want to rant & rave, drop a lot of profanity, start threads in the wrong place intentionally to show that I will move it, then go ahead. I'll let you do it unless you cross the line, but I am not likely to pay too much attention to what you say.

technomage1
10-15-2013, 01:11 AM
I'd like to know several thing about the crackdown. First, why, and why now? The rep wars were long over - and if there was ever a need for mods, it was then. Second, who are the mods? Do they even work for the military times publishing group? Who appointed them? At least with Alice we knew who she was. Third, there is a fine line between modding to keep a forum civil and over modding, which -as we're seeing here - kills the forum. Why the heavyhandedness? Why has nearly every thread remotely critical of the mods or the new system been deleted? What's the goal here?

Mjölnir
10-15-2013, 01:17 AM
Why has nearly every thread remotely critical of the mods or the new system been deleted?

They have not been deleted, but moved to the "Questions" Forum where issues about the Forum are addressed, they aren't related to the Air Force (even if the person creating the thread is in the Air Force.)

The largest issue I could gather from the OP was the moving of threads if posted in Forums or sections that they are not related to, which really is a non-issue and something that is common on many moderated Forums.

Bunch
10-15-2013, 01:54 AM
I will venture to take a wild guess about when the Air Force forum will hit the next big wave of traffic. It will have to do with EPR's and a whole lot of people complaining that they got a 3.

imnohero
10-15-2013, 02:03 AM
Uh, techno...I don't know where you've been for the last 8-9 months, but the so called "Crackdown" started last February, came to a head in June-July with people having spasms and "quitting", and have been going along pretty unpurturbed for the last 2-3 months. Other the occassional thread getting moved here and there, and an occassional nudge from the mods, it's been active and uneventful.

I have a better question...why does this seem to come up every two months or so?

RobotChicken
10-15-2013, 02:15 AM
MOD-'Mjolnir'; Could you give us some real 'posting numbers' by active members in the last 30 days please, excluding FA/ mods ones? New threads that had 100 replies and a 1k views? Thank you. :spy

UH1FE
10-15-2013, 02:17 AM
Yes MILD profanity :gay: :fuckyou:

Bunch
10-15-2013, 02:23 AM
"The Decline of the Alt Accounts"

veritas
10-15-2013, 02:36 AM
the Rep wars were great and should have a national holiday named after them.

imnohero
10-15-2013, 02:50 AM
I have a better suggestion...everyone that was involved with the rep wars should be permanently banned, along with all thier whiny friends...then the rest of us won't have to put up with the periodic idiocy of them complaining about how things were better before. It's only 3 or 4 people, that basically don't contribute anything else anyway, so no big loss.

Oh, and Veritas, you didn't answer my question...didn't the mods help you out by deleting a thread after your chain of command caught you cursing them out? I'm sure they could undelete it, if you'd prefer to not have their help.

technomage1
10-15-2013, 04:30 AM
Uh, techno...I don't know where you've been for the last 8-9 months, but the so called "Crackdown" started last February, came to a head in June-July with people having spasms and "quitting", and have been going along pretty unpurturbed for the last 2-3 months. Other the occassional thread getting moved here and there, and an occassional nudge from the mods, it's been active and uneventful.

I have a better question...why does this seem to come up every two months or so?

I didn't specify a timeframe in my post. I'm well aware of when it started and the timeline. I've been unhappy with the direction the forums have taken since that time.

veritas
10-15-2013, 05:22 AM
I have a better suggestion...everyone that was involved with the rep wars should be permanently banned, along with all thier whiny friends...then the rest of us won't have to put up with the periodic idiocy of them complaining about how things were better before. It's only 3 or 4 people, that basically don't contribute anything else anyway, so no big loss.

Oh, and Veritas, you didn't answer my question...didn't the mods help you out by deleting a thread after your chain of command caught you cursing them out? I'm sure they could undelete it, if you'd prefer to not have their help.

I have a suggestion, anyone who was upset by the rep wars should remove their tampon for at least 15 min a day and pretend to be a man

Absinthe Anecdote
10-15-2013, 05:28 AM
I'd like to know several thing about the crackdown. First, why, and why now? The rep wars were long over - and if there was ever a need for mods, it was then. Second, who are the mods? Do they even work for the military times publishing group? Who appointed them? At least with Alice we knew who she was. Third, there is a fine line between modding to keep a forum civil and over modding, which -as we're seeing here - kills the forum. Why the heavyhandedness? Why has nearly every thread remotely critical of the mods or the new system been deleted? What's the goal here?

I think they are former users except for forum admin. One is probably Crusty, another might be Shaken, I thought Kelly might have been another. The only one who was a little creepy is that Rasta guy and I think one of the other mods might have moderated him because he chilled out.

I never really had an issue with them until that one with the confusing Norse folk lore name started complaining about me posting Catherine Bell pictures. Catherine Bell is relevant to any discussion in here because she played a JAG lawyer on TV; plus, she is super hot.

Someone needs to drink a bottle of Milk of Magnesia because they are uptight. It isn't me who needs to drink it and it certainly isn't Catherine Bell.

@Mjolnir

Don't start complaining about me complaining about you. Just go drink your medicine.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-15-2013, 05:31 AM
Wasn't it revealed a long time ago that Veritas is an alt account?

Mjölnir
10-15-2013, 05:31 AM
Oh, I think she is uber-hot. But the photos really weren't relevant to the discussion. Again, uber-hot.

Mjölnir
10-15-2013, 05:32 AM
Wasn't it revealed a long time ago that Veritas is an alt account?

It is an account for a user that previously deleted an old account. The moderators saw the IP match really quick, he outed himself in a thread a while ago.

Interceptor
10-15-2013, 05:44 AM
I think they are former users except for forum admin. One is probably Crusty, another might be Shaken, I thought Kelly might have been another. The only one who was a little creepy is that Rasta guy and I think one of the other mods might have moderated him because he chilled out.

I never really had an issue with them until that one with the confusing Norse folk lore name started complaining about me posting Catherine Bell pictures. Catherine Bell is relevant to any discussion in here because she played a JAG lawyer on TV; plus, she is super hot.

Someone needs to drink a bottle of Milk of Magnesia because they are uptight. It isn't me who needs to drink it and it certainly isn't Catherine Bell.

@Mjolnir

Don't start complaining about me complaining about you. Just go drink your medicine.

That "Rasta Guy" ... For some reason I found that description outstandingly funny.

Each mod has its own personality, we respect each other's contribution and no one has told him to "chill". Rasta Guy did made us aware that he was going to be out for a while though.

Mjölnir
10-15-2013, 05:45 AM
yeah ... he is about as far from a Rasta-farian as you could get.

imnohero
10-15-2013, 06:09 AM
I have a suggestion, anyone who was upset by the rep wars should remove their tampon for at least 15 min a day and pretend to be a man

LOL. The rep wars didn't upset me. They didn't affect me one way or the other. On the other hand, your constant bitching is irritating... "I got a crappy EPR, WAAAA"..."I was a complete idiot online and my chain found out, WAAA!"...."The forums are boring, WAAA"...talk about needing to pull out the tampon and act like a man.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-15-2013, 06:17 AM
I missed the EPR thread...

imnohero
10-15-2013, 06:18 AM
I didn't specify a timeframe in my post. I'm well aware of when it started and the timeline. I've been unhappy with the direction the forums have taken since that time.


First, why, and why now?

"now" implies a contemporaneous event...not a past event...just so you know.

oh and WerriamWebster: contemporaneous (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contemporaneous)

imnohero
10-15-2013, 06:21 AM
I missed the EPR thread...

That's because it was only up for a couple hours and then was deleted. Presumably by the moderators, since users can't, and at his request.

technomage1
10-15-2013, 09:13 AM
"now" implies a contemporaneous event...not a past event...just so you know.

oh and WerriamWebster: contemporaneous (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contemporaneous)

Thanks for the completely unasked for and pointless tip,

Zxc
10-15-2013, 09:33 AM
The forum is over-moderated and too spread out. There's not enough daily activity to warrant the amount of sections. Too many sections with too little activity hinders threads from growing and puts an unneccessary importance on topics falling in the correct forum. Moderate what needs to be moderated, but don't worry about policing what topics people talk about and where--if its vulgar or illegal, kill it; if it is personal attacks, address it; otherwise, let it go. It kills the vibe and turns a moderately active forum into dozens of inactive mini-sections.

RS6405
10-15-2013, 10:49 AM
One of my big pet peeves about other forums is when there is a gigantic warning about asking a question that has already been addressed will lead to a perma ban.... then when you start looking at the forum, you notice it spans several years and has 100's of threads all you can think of is WTF?

Mjölnir
10-15-2013, 12:19 PM
One of my big pet peeves about other forums is when there is a gigantic warning about asking a question that has already been addressed will lead to a perma ban.... then when you start looking at the forum, you notice it spans several years and has 100's of threads all you can think of is WTF?

MTF is actually pretty liberal in allowing open discussion of how the Forum is moderated and administered. I think I have told a few people, I do moderation for three sites, it is really a questions of "what are the Guidelines?"

Suggestions or comments are welcome, but keep it civil, put it in the appropriate forum or sub-forum and we will have a discussion. Also, the moderators get PMs from a silent crowd who thank us for what we do. So a dissenting opinion isn't the only one out there.

“…you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.
A. Lincoln

giggawatt
10-15-2013, 12:27 PM
The only real change I've noticed is that threads are moved to appropriate sections and not all lumped into the AF section. Now people have to do "work" to post and find thead topics of their interest. That's why the AF section has slowed down. Not everything is posted there now.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-15-2013, 01:10 PM
The only real change I've noticed is that threads are moved to appropriate sections and not all lumped into the AF section. Now people have to do "work" to post and find thead topics of their interest. That's why the AF section has slowed down. Not everything is posted there now.

I think we need to start a cataloging system for each section, thread and post. A variation of the Dewey Decimal Classification (DDC) system would greatly enhance our efforts to keep all the treads and posts tidy and in their proper place.

There is a poetic beauty in the DDC because hierarchy in the DDC is expressed through structure and notation. Structural hierarchy means that all topics (aside from the ten main classes) are part of all the broader topics above them. Any note regarding the nature of a class holds true for all the subordinate classes, including logically subordinate topics classed at coordinate numbers.

Instead of just using plain English to express sections and names we could use a series of numbers. Just imagine how official and important we would all appear if we said stuff like, "Hey Giggawatt, did you see that post Cornelius made over in 750.152 yesterday?"




750.152

When a female of the species ascertains that a male with whom she is acquainted exhibits considerable desire to extend their acquaintance, that female customarily will first engage in protracted discussion with her close confidantes.

I think we should try to make all of our posts like that one and use the DDC, that's what I think.

imnohero
10-15-2013, 02:02 PM
Thanks for the completely unasked for and pointless tip,

your welcome.

CYBERFX1024
10-15-2013, 04:28 PM
I admit the forum has completely changed from before. It used to be fun to come on here and read what were on people's minds and the item of the day. But then the mods came in and deleted people that had different accounts. Most of the time the people that have been on here for a while knew who the people were and didn't care. We didn't care if it was the small amount of people that were posting, because if people wanted to come in and join us they could. We were never rude to people, ok some people were. But the majority of us are just decent people.

imnohero
10-15-2013, 04:37 PM
Most of the time the people that have been on here for a while knew who the people were and didn't care. We didn't care if it was the small amount of people that were posting

You do understand that this is your forum, right?

Absinthe Anecdote
10-15-2013, 04:47 PM
I thought it belonged to Tak?

Pullinteeth
10-15-2013, 04:50 PM
They have not been deleted, but moved to the "Questions" Forum where issues about the Forum are addressed, they aren't related to the Air Force (even if the person creating the thread is in the Air Force.)

The largest issue I could gather from the OP was the moving of threads if posted in Forums or sections that they are not related to, which really is a non-issue and something that is common on many moderated Forums.

*coughbullshitcough* Entire sections were summarily deleted, threads were deleted and when someone complained, what we got was-oh it was deleted a week ago...you must not really care because you didn't notice it immediately.

As to any threads even hinting at displeasure with the state of moderation? They were immediately moved and locked to prevent further discussion. Even civil conversations that involved mods were locked down if another mod got their panties in a twist. And guess what? They have all been deleted....


The only real change I've noticed is that threads are moved to appropriate sections and not all lumped into the AF section. Now people have to do "work" to post and find thead topics of their interest. That's why the AF section has slowed down. Not everything is posted there now.

Then you haven't been paying attention. The whole Off-Duty section was deleted...along with about a dozen other sections. The best part? A couple of months later, the Mods recreated some of the very sections that were just deleted...Sports anyone?

Mjölnir
10-15-2013, 05:49 PM
Not saying things have been perfect.

About deleted threads, I have gotten plenty of messages about threads being deleted that are still around.

RobotChicken
10-15-2013, 07:01 PM
I thought it belonged to Tak?

:spy "Whaaaaa???? Who? When? Where? Galaxy? WTF,over???"

giggawatt
10-15-2013, 07:23 PM
Then you haven't been paying attention. The whole Off-Duty section was deleted...along with about a dozen other sections. The best part? A couple of months later, the Mods recreated some of the very sections that were just deleted...Sports anyone?

I guess you're right. There were a couple of months when I never visited the forum. Everything must have went down during that time.

20+Years
10-15-2013, 07:38 PM
There is some truth to the OPs claim. We used to be able to come in here, go to the Air Force section and all the "happening" threads were right on top. Since the change, I can tell you that I don't bother "looking around" (aka. searching, aka. go and find, aka. butt pain) to see whats going on. I'm not going to search for wherever a mod moved a post that I didn't know existed. If its not one of the recent posts under "Whats new", I guess I will just miss out.

TJMAC77SP
10-15-2013, 09:48 PM
There is some truth to the OPs claim. We used to be able to come in here, go to the Air Force section and all the "happening" threads were right on top. Since the change, I can tell you that I don't bother "looking around" (aka. searching, aka. go and find, aka. butt pain) to see whats going on. I'm not going to search for wherever a mod moved a post that I didn't know existed. If its not one of the recent posts under "Whats new", I guess I will just miss out.

I have always viewed the whole "Why's everything in the AF section" as (to quote another poster) whining. Quite frankly anyone who has visited the forum more than once or has visited another forum and then came here probably uses the "New Posts" function so they (like me) don't notice nor give a shyte what section a thread is in. Harping on that is a straw man argument.

imnohero
10-16-2013, 12:50 AM
I have always viewed the whole "Why's everything in the AF section" as (to quote another poster) whining. Quite frankly anyone who has visited the forum more than once or has visited another forum and then came here probably uses the "New Posts" function so they (like me) don't notice nor give a shyte what section a thread is in. Harping on that is a straw man argument.

And yet, it keeps coming up over and over again.

There are serious discussions to be had about how a forum in moderated. Quite frankly, from what I've seen, the mods have "backed off" quite a bit from August. The most obvious thing they do is moving threads around (which goes back to the "why isn't everything in one section" complaint). Tak is back, RC is back, bans are shorter, people wanted new sections (sports or whatever in off duty), they got them. They don't lock up and deleted threads about moderation (witness this one).

OK, I'm not aware of everything that goes on in private, but it sure seems like the mods are listening and giving people what they are asking for in a reasonable fashion.

The things that people seem most obviously upset about, threads/sections that were deleted months ago (which were searched for and apparently are unrecoverable) and the whole "not everything is in one section" thing. Seriously, what do you expect to happen with these sort of things? The mods can't wish data back into existence.

I realize that some people won't be happy unless the moderators are completely done away with, but that's not going to happen, as far as I can tell.

Silverback
10-16-2013, 01:16 AM
And yet, it keeps coming up over and over again.

There are serious discussions to be had about how a forum in moderated. Quite frankly, from what I've seen, the mods have "backed off" quite a bit from August. The most obvious thing they do is moving threads around (which goes back to the "why isn't everything in one section" complaint). Tak is back, RC is back, bans are shorter, people wanted new sections (sports or whatever in off duty), they got them. They don't lock up and deleted threads about moderation (witness this one).

OK, I'm not aware of everything that goes on in private, but it sure seems like the mods are listening and giving people what they are asking for in a reasonable fashion.

The things that people seem most obviously upset about, threads/sections that were deleted months ago (which were searched for and apparently are unrecoverable) and the whole "not everything is in one section" thing. Seriously, what do you expect to happen with these sort of things? The mods can't wish data back into existence.

I realize that some people won't be happy unless the moderators are completely done away with, but that's not going to happen, as far as I can tell.

I have no problems with the moderators. But isn't there a thread on here somewhere about where the moderators went? Now that that the moderators are present people are complaining about that also. Point is you can't please everybody.

CYBERFX1024
10-16-2013, 05:32 AM
You do understand that this is your forum, right?

Yes I understand that. I see the good and the bad with what the moderators have done. It has helped keep some of the crazies under control.

Pullinteeth
10-16-2013, 02:25 PM
And yet, it keeps coming up over and over again.

There are serious discussions to be had about how a forum in moderated. Quite frankly, from what I've seen, the mods have "backed off" quite a bit from August. The most obvious thing they do is moving threads around (which goes back to the "why isn't everything in one section" complaint). Tak is back, RC is back, bans are shorter, people wanted new sections (sports or whatever in off duty), they got them. They don't lock up and deleted threads about moderation (witness this one).

They aren't new...they are a recreation of ones that were deleted by the Forum Administrator(FA). And using one thread remaining of the dozens that were locked and subsequesntly deleted doesn't really prove your point very well....


I have no problems with the moderators. But isn't there a thread on here somewhere about where the moderators went? Now that that the moderators are present people are complaining about that also. Point is you can't please everybody.

It is merely confusion of verbiage. It used to be that the FA was the Moderator (Alice). She did pretty much everything. When she left, it was the Wild West at times. The new FA came in just wiped entire sections-some of which were almost as active as the AF section. It wasn't until a few months ago that there was a separate Moderator. THAT is where the confusion comes from.

Mjölnir
10-16-2013, 03:09 PM
If there is confusion, I would suggest people read the Community Guidelines, they are pretty basic. I agree that having more than one moderator means that the moderators have to all be on the same page when it comes to how we moderate, something we have gotten better with.

From my chair, the biggest problem that lingers seems to be that as Pullinteeth put it, for some time the Forums became something like the Wild West. There have always been rules, guidelines, standards etc. the rules were still there, but were not enforced. Well, now they are. They may be more enforced then when the previous Admin was here, but after nearly 3 months of enforcement of the rules, time is running out on claiming ignorance of the rules as well.

Moderators were implemented, and at first moderation was a learning curve for users & moderators. For the most part, I think we have found the medium between the Wild West and total lock down. Me personally, for the most part I don't care WHAT you say, but HOW you say it can put you afoul of the Guidelines. Yes, if a user continually disrupts the Forums, that user will be given a warning, if that user keeps going with being disruptive he or she will likely find themselves banned. If you have been on the receiving end of bannings in the past, you probably do get watched to see if you are still being disruptive and you are probably on a 'shorter leash' than someone who has not been banned before.

Yes, threads will be moved if they are not in the right Forum, learn to use the search bar, the New Activity or the What's New tabs, sorry. Yes, we have started asking people to ID hyperlinks (as per the guidelines) as a means to try to ID if someone hides a link that looks like it goes to AFNEWS.com but actually goes to a site with malware or malicious code, and yes forums and threads were deleted and then some of those deleted were restarted.

imnohero
10-16-2013, 04:10 PM
They aren't new...they are a recreation of ones that were deleted by the Forum Administrator(FA).

OK, they aren't "new"... is your point to argue semantics?

My point is that the moderators are being responsive to users requests, but certain users (you included) want to keep bitching about what happened in the past. I guess that's your right, but do you think it going to change what happened back then?

Pullinteeth
10-16-2013, 06:40 PM
OK, they aren't "new"... is your point to argue semantics?

My point is that the moderators are being responsive to users requests, but certain users (you included) want to keep bitching about what happened in the past. I guess that's your right, but do you think it going to change what happened back then?

No the point is that if the threads hadn't been deleted in the first place, there wouldn't have been any need to recreate them. Giving someone kudos for almost sort-of fixing their fuckups (collective their-I realize for the most part it wasn't the Mods it was the FA) is a bit misguided.

Nope...can't change the past but I am not going to sing the praises of the Mods for almost kinda sorta fixing debacle caused by the FA. Esp since there are Mods that were doing the same thing (might still be doing it for all I know.

Not saying they are the devil but I'm not saying they are the second coming of Christ (or even Alice) either. Some are more reasonable than others, some are good, some suck asscock....law of averages I guess.

BRUWIN
10-16-2013, 07:00 PM
I don't post much anymore because the mods are nut jobs, they seem to ban the people with much wisdom, and the topics have become so organized that they are borderline disorganized. Whenever I come here now it's almost the same experience as when I go to a library. I go into a library looking for a book...any book...and can't find one despite the thousands of books there. Like a library...this forum has become a confusing place for me. Plus, I am a retiree and these newbees show zero respect. They need to realize that if it wasn't for me they'd be speaking Iraqi right now.

This is what should be happening:

1. Fire every Mod. They have sucked all the life out of this forum.

2. Make Bruwin in charge of screening newbees from every service before they are allowed to post.

3. Initiate a lawsuit against the fired Mods.

4. Initiate a Blues Monday for posters...anybody that wants to post needs to provide a picture (with the day's date visible) of them in their blues or other associated uniform of their service.

5. Anybody with an 80% or less on their PT score can't post until they pass. Retirees will use their last PT score before they retired. Army/Marines needs 99.9% PT scores before they can post.

6. Develop a forum creed.

Do these things...and the forum will experience rapid growth and popularity.

efmbman
10-16-2013, 07:18 PM
6. Develop a forum creed.

No song? We should all sing a song. If one does not remember all the words, just clap along.

BRUWIN
10-16-2013, 07:21 PM
No song? We should all sing a song. If one does not remember all the words, just clap along.

You cant sing a song in an internet forum...no one would hear you. That's thinking outside the box though....good work. You are obviously Air Force.

imnohero
10-16-2013, 08:56 PM
No the point is that if the threads hadn't been deleted in the first place, there wouldn't have been any need to recreate them. Giving someone kudos for almost sort-of fixing their fuckups (collective their-I realize for the most part it wasn't the Mods it was the FA) is a bit misguided.

Nope...can't change the past but I am not going to sing the praises of the Mods for almost kinda sorta fixing debacle caused by the FA. Esp since there are Mods that were doing the same thing (might still be doing it for all I know.

Not saying they are the devil but I'm not saying they are the second coming of Christ (or even Alice) either. Some are more reasonable than others, some are good, some suck asscock....law of averages I guess.

No one is saying "Sing their praises"...I'm not singing either. My point is that people complained, the mods changed their behavior. yet they keep on complaining about the same things.

RobotChicken
10-16-2013, 10:09 PM
As the user responsible for the downfall of the forum,
I offer my sincerest apology and call on everyone
to look to the future and see what can be.
I cannot undue the past, but can offer a creed,
to start mending the wounds:

This is my forum. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My forum is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life.
My forum, without me, is useless. Without my forum, I am useless.
I must post in my forum threads. I must post smarter than any poster who is trying to outpost me.
I must comment before he comments first. I will...
My forum and myself know that what counts in this forum is not the threads we posts,
the amount of likes we get, nor the thanks. We know that it is the views that count. We will post...
My forum is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother.
I will learn its weakness, its strength, its forums, its sub-forums, its Forumadmin and its Moderators.
I will keep myself TOS compliant, even as I am always pushing the envelope.
We will become part of each other. We will.... Before God I swear this creed.
My user friends and moderators are the defenders of my threads. We are the master baiters of thread creation.
We are the saviors of my life. So be it, until victory is Gannetts and there are no bannings, but Peace.

:spy "Concur...+1"

UncaRastus
10-17-2013, 01:36 PM
Nice redo of the Marine's Rifleman Creed, Tak.

BOSS302
10-19-2013, 01:43 PM
10 Reasons I Love the Moderators

1) They have cool names.
2) They enforce TOS without fear or favor.
3) They do a good job sorting through threads.
4) They do thankless work for no pay.
5) They give warnings in private.
6) They have no agenda/want what's best for forum.
7) They keep people like me in line.
8) They participate and do not alienate.
9) They are learned individuals/always helpful.
10) They are doing an overall great job!

http://true-x.net/upload/images/good-sex14.jpg

sandsjames
10-19-2013, 02:17 PM
No one is saying "Sing their praises"...I'm not singing either. My point is that people complained, the mods changed their behavior. yet they keep on complaining about the same things.

Yep, just as the Air Force listened and changed the EPR and PT Test. All is good and their should be no more complaining about those issues. Once a fix is made, everything works great.

imnohero
10-19-2013, 04:17 PM
And just like the PT test, those that bitch the loudest are the ones that can't pass. And just like the AF, those that can't adapt will get kicked out.

The only point that I can see the complainers have is that they don't like moderation period, any is too much. Well, we saw how that worked out, didn't we?

sandsjames
10-19-2013, 04:30 PM
And just like the PT test, those that bitch the loudest are the ones that can't pass. And just like the AF, those that can't adapt will get kicked out.

The only point that I can see the complainers have is that they don't like moderation period, any is too much. Well, we saw how that worked out, didn't we?

I went 20 years without adapting. Never did get kicked out. It can be done.

imnohero
10-19-2013, 04:55 PM
I went 20 years without adapting. Never did get kicked out. It can be done.

Got news for ya, you adapted there, just like you have here.

sandsjames
10-19-2013, 05:07 PM
Got news for ya, you adapted there, just like you have here.

You're so smart...with such wit. If you'd been my mentor, I'm sure I would have adapted immediately.

giggawatt
10-19-2013, 05:36 PM
I, for one, welcome our new moderator overlords.

efmbman
10-19-2013, 11:25 PM
3536.
............................

Pullinteeth
10-21-2013, 07:40 PM
And just like the PT test, those that bitch the loudest are the ones that can't pass. And just like the AF, those that can't adapt will get kicked out.

The only point that I can see the complainers have is that they don't like moderation period, any is too much. Well, we saw how that worked out, didn't we?

Can't pass? Really? I have 5 excellents, a satisfactory and 4 goods that beg to differ. My waist has never measured above 32" yet even I know that is a bullshit measure of fitness.

Perhaps some of us just like to bitch?

Absinthe Anecdote
10-25-2013, 09:25 PM
I stand by my comments.

If I have an issue with a moderator,
I contact them in private,
voice my concern and
respect their decision.
Then I press on.

Great advice, I'll have to remember to do that myself.

sandsjames
10-26-2013, 01:41 PM
"This thread did not keep with the concept or background and has been closed."

The quote from Mod about the AF News and Current Events thread. Other than the final post in the thread, every single post was about AF News and Current Events, with links to the site. It was more on topic and relevant to the Air Force than any thread we have. Just an observation.

TJMAC77SP
10-26-2013, 02:25 PM
"This thread did not keep with the concept or background and has been closed."

The quote from Mod about the AF News and Current Events thread. Other than the final post in the thread, every single post was about AF News and Current Events, with links to the site. It was more on topic and relevant to the Air Force than any thread we have. Just an observation.

Just saw that..................puzzling.

Mjölnir
10-26-2013, 02:34 PM
You are welcome to discuss AF new and current events.

One long thread about a myriad of topics is pretty much one thread replacing the point of the Air Force Forum.

Capt Alfredo
10-26-2013, 02:48 PM
You are welcome to discuss AF new and current events.

One long thread about a myriad of topics is pretty much one thread replacing the point of the Air Force Forum.

You can keep forcing people to walk between the lines, but the organic nature of this community will result in (mixed metaphor aside) water finding its level, irrespective of artificial constrictions. I don't know why you guys keep trying to force things. It's not really working, from what I can tell and just annoys loyal posters. But, as has been shown, you can take your ball and go home, and there's nothing we can do about it.