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View Full Version : Why are officers the shame of the Air Force?



veritas
10-11-2013, 06:55 PM
Why is it that AF officers are the best of any service?? I for one could not wish or hope for better leaders than we have. Shame on everyone for clicking on this thread and thinking i was going to say something negative.

imported_DannyJ
10-11-2013, 06:57 PM
Wow. You're just looking for trouble with a post like this. :chargrined:

RobotChicken
10-11-2013, 07:07 PM
Why is it that officers are the embarrassment and shame of the entire USAF? We don't always find out exactly what they did wrong, but the few we do know about includes rape, abusing power, DUI's that get covered up, sexual harassment and rape that gets covered up, I'm sure there are thousands of more examples out there that our "leaders" have done.

Most officers will say "we are just the most visible" or "we get attention when our subordinates, to include enlisted mess up" that may have some partial truth but...when Officers are leading the way with the most vile and disgusting of the crimes, it shows there is a deep seated infestation of officers with no core values and I think it may be time just to clean house and start fresh.

Let's be honest, 99% of all squadrons/groups/wings, hell the whole AF would run better if there were NO officers and with a few exceptions, such as jobs where officers are the only ones trained to do the work (pilots, ect..) officers are nothing but a burden to the entire system, they are corrupt, lazy, clueless and most of all, they do not have the moral discipline to be a part of the USAF.

:spy "Sorority/Fraternities house training leaves no Military 'O' behind!!!

SomeRandomGuy
10-11-2013, 07:10 PM
Why is it that officers are the embarrassment and shame of the entire USAF? We don't always find out exactly what they did wrong, but the few we do know about includes rape, abusing power, DUI's that get covered up, sexual harassment and rape that gets covered up, I'm sure there are thousands of more examples out there that our "leaders" have done.

Most officers will say "we are just the most visible" or "we get attention when our subordinates, to include enlisted mess up" that may have some partial truth but...when Officers are leading the way with the most vile and disgusting of the crimes, it shows there is a deep seated infestation of officers with no core values and I think it may be time just to clean house and start fresh.

Let's be honest, 99% of all squadrons/groups/wings, hell the whole AF would run better if there were NO officers and with a few exceptions, such as jobs where officers are the only ones trained to do the work (pilots, ect..) officers are nothing but a burden to the entire system, they are corrupt, lazy, clueless and most of all, they do not have the moral discipline to be a part of the USAF.

Are you sure about this? Below is a link to the current AF JAG docket. I did a quick count and found 122 cases open. 10 of those 122 are officers. So at this current moment 8% of courtmartials are officers. Based on numbers from AFPC on September 30 there are 64,799 officers out of 326,775 people. That means officers account for 19% of the force but only 8% of the court martials. I think your perception is a little skewed based on your bias.

http://www.afjag.af.mil/docket/

SomeRandomGuy
10-11-2013, 07:24 PM
Personally, it just looks like all of our Officers are lushes. Out of 10 cases 6 are drug posession/use and a 7th is DUI. On the other hand enlisted cases range from drunk driving/drugs all the way to sexual assualt and child porn. It just isn't really news when an enlisted person does it.

Here is rank and charge for all 10 officer cases:

Maj-wrongful use of marijuana
Lt.-wrongful use of drugs
Capt.-possesion of drugs, wrongful use of drugs
Capt.-Larceny, Derelection of Duty, Conduct unbecoming of an officer
Maj.-sexual contact on unconscious person, assualt and battery, conduct unbecoming
Maj.-posession of drugs, larceny
Lt.-posession of drugs, fraterinzation, posseion of more than 30 grams marijuana, conduct unbecoming
Capt.-wrongful use of drugs
Maj-drunk driving, false statement
Capt.-violate general order, copy exam of other student, conduct unbecoming

BOSS302
10-11-2013, 08:59 PM
Why is it that officers are the embarrassment and shame of the entire USAF? We don't always find out exactly what they did wrong, but the few we do know about includes rape, abusing power, DUI's that get covered up, sexual harassment and rape that gets covered up, I'm sure there are thousands of more examples out there that our "leaders" have done.

Most officers will say "we are just the most visible" or "we get attention when our subordinates, to include enlisted mess up" that may have some partial truth but...when Officers are leading the way with the most vile and disgusting of the crimes, it shows there is a deep seated infestation of officers with no core values and I think it may be time just to clean house and start fresh.

Let's be honest, 99% of all squadrons/groups/wings, hell the whole AF would run better if there were NO officers and with a few exceptions, such as jobs where officers are the only ones trained to do the work (pilots, ect..) officers are nothing but a burden to the entire system, they are corrupt, lazy, clueless and most of all, they do not have the moral discipline to be a part of the USAF.

FLAPS is going to beat that ass.

RobotChicken
10-11-2013, 09:03 PM
FLAPS is going to beat that ass.

:deadhorse "Wish everyone luck on that!"

OtisRNeedleman
10-11-2013, 09:48 PM
Why is it that officers are the embarrassment and shame of the entire USAF? We don't always find out exactly what they did wrong, but the few we do know about includes rape, abusing power, DUI's that get covered up, sexual harassment and rape that gets covered up, I'm sure there are thousands of more examples out there that our "leaders" have done.

Most officers will say "we are just the most visible" or "we get attention when our subordinates, to include enlisted mess up" that may have some partial truth but...when Officers are leading the way with the most vile and disgusting of the crimes, it shows there is a deep seated infestation of officers with no core values and I think it may be time just to clean house and start fresh.

Let's be honest, 99% of all squadrons/groups/wings, hell the whole AF would run better if there were NO officers and with a few exceptions, such as jobs where officers are the only ones trained to do the work (pilots, ect..) officers are nothing but a burden to the entire system, they are corrupt, lazy, clueless and most of all, they do not have the moral discipline to be a part of the USAF.

Wrong. Period. For every officer who is a miscreant, there are hundreds who take their responsibilities and duties seriously, who constantly work to earn the trust placed in them, and do everything possible not to let their people down. And if you are an officer who's worth anything, YOU are the unit's designated shit-taker. Then you decide how much, if any, of that shit goes downhill.

I wore stripes before I wore bars and oak leaves. Saw my share of idiots and dirtbags wearing bars, oak leaves, eagles, and stars. Also saw my share of idiots and dirtbags wearing chevrons, too.

You allude to a lack of core values among officers. If there's a lack of core values, it is endemic throughout the service, as a reflection on the bigger lack of core values in the nation itself.

You mention the number of officers being court-martialed for various offenses. In any group of people there will be some who do wrong. But there are plenty of enlisted members who do wrong, and are punished. But in general the system works. Have seen far more senior and flag officers getting whacked over the past few years than ever before, and I first enlisted in 1974.

Think the AF can get along without officers? How do you know? Have you tried to become an officer? If not, why not? If you think you can do a better job, go for it. I did.

I am proud of my AF service, both enlisted and officer. The four years' enlisted service made me a much better officer. And I am proud to refer to myself as a retired AF officer. I served honorably and contributed to mission success everywhere I served. I took care of my people, always. Matter of fact, when applying for jobs I list former subordinates as references.

Now, if you have proof that all officers are corrupt, lazy, clueless, and haven't any moral discipline, let's see it. Got the guts to put your money where your mouth is? Otherwise, shut the fuck up. Do your verbal masturbation somewhere else, not here.

Otis

efmbman
10-11-2013, 10:00 PM
This observation in in OP is anecdotal at best. As officers, and as such being appointed to positions of great responsibility, just about any misconduct will be reported. The sensationalism is too tempting for the media to pass up. It is much like a rose garden in that the beauty of the rose will be quickly forgotten and replaced by the memory of the thorn in the palm. It is human nature to focus on the negative.

RobotChicken
10-11-2013, 10:51 PM
:rip "Yepper; our military is a refection of our societies values and we can see where that is going...."

efmbman
10-11-2013, 11:24 PM
I am not so quick to slam the OP. One used to bank on the commander being an officer and a gentleman,
fighting for his men, weighing in when it counts, beyond reproach. There just so happens to be a lot
of very senior commanders with stars doing very dishonorable things and these people have thousands
of troops under them that they were charged to lead. Hell, I think I can count over 6, 4 star generals
who got in throuble just in the last two years. Perhaps it's a reflaection of society going downhill
or the military going downhill. I can say that my last five years in I saw new young commanders much
worse than any commander I had seen in my first 15 years. I saw commanders not be an officer and a
gentleman, not fight for his men, weigh in on every single trivial issue and dealing with Airman directly
even though units had SNCO's and frankly I saw many fired for various trangressions (being at Minot
on both wing's I think I saw over ten commanders fired at every level). Now the OP is painting with a wide
brush to be sure, but don't lose the forest for the trees. I believe there is a fire in that forest. I do
respect people standing up for officers though, I bet you guys are older and that's the way it used to be.

There is certainly a fire, no argument there. Maybe the change is that it is seized upon more in this time than in the past... especially the last 12 years. Let's face it, military members got the benefit of the doubt and unwavering support during the "War on Terrorism". Now that is winding down and the emphasis in now focused on a bloated military industrial complex that is viewed as extremely wasteful and corrupt. Any chance to prove that in the media will be used and milked. In this time, everyone in the military will be under more scrutiny than ever. We all know the brass is looking for just about any reason to kick someone to the curb. A wise person would not give the brass the ammo for their own execution.

imported_blacksheep1208
10-28-2013, 10:01 AM
Globe http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/vatican-recalls-papal-medals-that-spelled-jesus-wrong/article14828021/

Homer to Jebus...Homer to Jebus...come in Jebus!!

WillsPowers
10-30-2013, 01:15 AM
You're dealing with a insulated mutual protecting, mutual benefit and mutual admiration society that will run you over and screw you in a heartbeat----unless you dig up dirt on THEM!

ttribe
10-30-2013, 01:31 PM
You're dealing with a insulated mutual protecting, mutual benefit and mutual admiration society that will run you over and screw you in a heartbeat----unless you dig up dirt on THEM!

It would be interesting to see how you came up with such an opinion of the officer corps. Especially since you put your very life in their hands every time you stepped off the crew bus with them.

My personal experience with flying with them is overwhelmingly positive, both professionally and personally. From butterbars to the occasional GO.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
10-31-2013, 02:04 AM
You're dealing with a insulated mutual protecting, mutual benefit and mutual admiration society that will run you over and screw you in a heartbeat----unless you dig up dirt on THEM!

Is there ever a time where you are not so angry and bitter?

4CECMC
10-31-2013, 05:15 AM
Very funny thread, with a spirit about as shallow as a midgets grave who was buried standing up. In my experience in dealing with these matters, especially the more senior the case was, there was a Senior, (or Junior for that matter), Enlisted Leader somewhere in the CoC that had an opportunity to "pull up a fender and go along side" and prevent and Officer from jumping, slipping or being pushed off the cliff. Quick to point out the perceived death spiral that our beloved Officer corps might be in, but c'mon fellas, we enlisted are not totally absolved from having a role here..... Step up, or Step out!!!!

4CECMC
10-31-2013, 05:19 AM
WillsPowers is probably the "victim" of some great leadership, that held him/her accountable, made him/her do there job and drove them out of the USAF with an OTH, (at best). Gotta wander how the view from the back of the garbage truck is, not that he's working mind you, simply hopped on for a free ride down to the blood bank!!!

technomage1
10-31-2013, 10:15 AM
WillsPowers is probably the "victim" of some great leadership, that held him/her accountable, made him/her do there job and drove them out of the USAF with an OTH, (at best). Gotta wander how the view from the back of the garbage truck is, not that he's working mind you, simply hopped on for a free ride down to the blood bank!!!

I won't get into the particulars publicly since it would out his real name but I am familiar with his case, though only by reading about it in the news. Truth be told, he got a bit of a raw deal IMO. In a nutshell, he messed up and deserved some punishment but they went after him with a vengeance when they could have handled it with some paperwork and having him retire or even some counseling. I can understand his bitterness.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
10-31-2013, 11:49 AM
I won't get into the particulars publicly since it would out his real name but I am familiar with his case, though only by reading about it in the news. Truth be told, he got a bit of a raw deal IMO. In a nutshell, he messed up and deserved some punishment but they went after him with a vengeance when they could have handled it with some paperwork and having him retire or even some counseling. I can understand his bitterness.

Will is the same guy who got into a shouting match with Code Pink outside of Travis' gate, then posted it on YouTube. He's also waged a multi-year rambling MTF attack on Jill Metzger. Therefore, I believe his 'bitterness' and bad attitude is probably something he's carried with him throughout his adulthood, rather than the result of some single incident.

SomeRandomGuy
10-31-2013, 12:27 PM
I won't get into the particulars publicly since it would out his real name but I am familiar with his case, though only by reading about it in the news. Truth be told, he got a bit of a raw deal IMO. In a nutshell, he messed up and deserved some punishment but they went after him with a vengeance when they could have handled it with some paperwork and having him retire or even some counseling. I can understand his bitterness.

The story I read was the PA version published by the AF but it sounds like he forced the issue. Just so everyone knows the details of the incident are that he said "Allah damn it" after getting into an argument about maintaining a jet. He was offered an Article 15 and declined it. According to the story he declined the 15 because he was worried his commander would take a stripe. Instead he faced a court martial. I feel bad for anyone who doesn't know his real name. There are hours of entertainment on google if you know his real name. My favorite line is from an article about his court case. One of the comments says, "His attorney knows the best way to defend him. It starts with duct tape". There is also another comment that implies Willspowers is being persecuted for being a "white christian". I think he may have missed the part of the bible that mentioned turning the other cheek.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-31-2013, 03:16 PM
I won't get into the particulars publicly since it would out his real name but I am familiar with his case, though only by reading about it in the news. Truth be told, he got a bit of a raw deal IMO. In a nutshell, he messed up and deserved some punishment but they went after him with a vengeance when they could have handled it with some paperwork and having him retire or even some counseling. I can understand his bitterness.

Did you ever watch the series of YouTube videos titled Sewer Soon City?

Absinthe Anecdote
10-31-2013, 06:11 PM
I can't believe I just wasted about 30 minutes watching some of the Sewer City Soon videos.

Here is a quick recap:

His security camera footage shows a toddler on a tricycle encroach upon the edge of his driveway and he goes outside and yells at the kids father.

He gives a rambling speech to the city council threatening them with numerous law suits and goes into his WOT veteran routine and declares, "I did not risk my life over the skies of the Middle East and North Africa to come home and have you push me around."

He talks about spraying pepper mace into the eyes of a neighbor's dog.

He goes on a photo hunt for violations of HOA regulations, crap like too many cars in the driveway. In true Captain Ahab tradition he finds his white whale, an illegally parked RV! He really does a good job of showcasing his video editing skills in this one with a picture of 1313 Mockingbird Lane and a pretty cool acoustic guitar riff of the Munsters theme song. He also shows a bunch of photos of atomic bomb tests for artistic effect.

technomage1
11-07-2013, 11:21 AM
It's not just AF officers. Three senior navy officials (two officers and a civilian) are arrested in a bribery and prostitution scandal. Seems the were giving away secrets for cash, travel, and prostitutes.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/06/21338225-third-senior-navy-official-arrested-in-bribery-prostitution-scandal?lite

And to think Snowden gave away the secrets for free...what a chump.... [\Sarcasm]

technomage1
11-10-2013, 12:24 AM
Read in a book (so I can't post a link) that Rear Admiral W.L. Erdmann, upon retiring from the Navy in 1960, smuggled 42 cases of duty free whiskey from his last (overseas) posting in his HHG. He was caught, indicted, plead guilty and fined $15,000 but got to keep his retirement. That's over $118k in today's money.

I'm not sure how many bottles of whiskey are in a case, but that's a lot of whiskey. Anyhow, corruption and abuse of authority have been around for a while. I'm sure there are much older cases to, this just caught my eye.

Found a link with a period newspaper article if anyone is interested. It was 504 bottles and the tipster was an enlisted man....

http://fultonhistory.com/newspaper%2010/Yonkers%20NY%20Herald%20Statesman/Yonkers%20NY%20Herald%20Statesman%201960%20Graysca le/Yonkers%20NY%20Herald%20Statesman%201960%20Graysca le%20-%206626.pdf