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View Full Version : What is the point of an EPR? Why do we need them? Do they serve any purpose?



veritas
09-26-2013, 02:49 AM
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Bunch
09-26-2013, 04:06 AM
The factor I see that leads to EPR inflation are the following:
1. They count towards promotion
2. They are key in determining if a person is allowed to reenlist or not
3. Some supervisors see their troops EPR's as a reflection of their supervisory skills

So even we take EPR's out of WAPS I'm still skeptical that we will see a great reduction on inflation unless they either go away from them altogether or make changes that tackle all three factors that I mentioned above.

BRUWIN
09-26-2013, 11:07 AM
I'll be the first to admit that way to much work and BS is put into EPRs....but to say we don't need them is a stretch. If anything...the threat of being one of the.05% of people getting a 4 EPR helps keep the slackers somewhat motivated.

sandsjames
09-26-2013, 11:29 AM
Isn't there another thread on this???? Recently? With several pages of posts discussing these exact things?

DWWSWWD
09-26-2013, 01:09 PM
I am currently a PME guy as many of you know. I tell students all the time that I wish we didn't have to have tests. A 30 question test can't measure the whole 6 week experience and students get so wrapped around the test that they miss out on the rest. But it's the only way to hold them accountable for doing homework, paying attention in class and trying to understand the material. People do care about the EPR rating they get.

jondstewart
09-28-2013, 04:14 AM
As for EPR ratings go, a 5 means you're walking on water or the supervisor cuts you some slack and figures everybody is worth a 5 unless they screw up, a 4 is given to someone who screws up or by a hard assed supervisor who gives 4's to good Airmen.

As for the 3 rating, I'm sure most everybody on here has heard at least once that "showing up for work on time and doing your job earns you a 3". Uh huh! Every single person I ever knew that got a 3 messed up bad, got in trouble, or had a spiteful supervisor. Or a combination depending on how cold and/or objective the supervisor was.

Chief_KO
09-28-2013, 02:47 PM
At some point everyone leaves the AF. Many will need a resume as part of the job search, interview, hiring process. If you do not have a source document that provides duty description and what you achieved during those last 4, 6, 15, 20, or 30 years you're gonna have an awfully hard time to write a resume. YES, I know there is a different writing style...somewhat. Many successful resume experts recommend...wait for it...achievement bullets!
Also a history lesson: Prior to the EPR's creation when you submitted a decoration there was a separate form used to submit the supporting achievements for the dec. There was a dotted line that differentiated between AFAM & AFCM (meaning a lot more meat for an AFCM). Despite it's failures the EPR was an improvement over the APR, just screwed up over time (and rather quickly I might add!)

LogDog
09-28-2013, 06:11 PM
The purpose of the EPR as a measure of how well a person does their job was undermined by assigning promotion points to the ratings. This meant that supervisors overinflated EPRs to keep their people competitive with their peers since everyone else was getting "5" EPRs. Taking the EPR points out of WAPS leaves you with a less inflated EPR and a more accurate view of who well the individual performs their duties and handles their responsibilities. Then the EPR becomes more of a management tool, instead of a promotion tool, in that commanders have to review PIF/EPRs prior to approving promotions or special duty assignments.

As Chief_KO mentioned, the EPRs are documents that support your resume showing prospective civilian employers what you've done, how well you did it, and the results of your accomplishments. Look at it this way, you and another person are applying for a position with a company and you both have a resume listing your accomplishments. The other guy was never in the military so what documents does he use to support his resume? The EPRs are official (military) government documents backing up what is in your resume.

XxATCxX
09-29-2013, 04:24 PM
Fair enough, but look at this way...what if its an ex air force guy who's doing the hiring and knows good and well that EPRs in fact DO NOT reflect anything other than fluffed up BS, who's he gonna hire now?

I can not see any civilian employer caring about your EPR's. I was just hired by the FAA and they never asked for my EPR or even my military records other than a DD214.

ps. My supervisor gave me a 4 on my last EPR for not re-enlisting (his words, he said if I was re-enlisting it would be a 5) so I missed Staff by less than 4 points. He owes me Staff pay as far as I'm concerned for the 4 months I would have been E5 before serperating.

retiredAFcivvy
09-30-2013, 03:15 AM
Fair enough, but look at this way...what if its an ex air force guy who's doing the hiring and knows good and well that EPRs in fact DO NOT reflect anything other than fluffed up BS, who's he gonna hire now?

I think as long as the AF person was discharged honorably, they would get the job. The EPRs may have fluff, but they still portray job experience and accomplishments.
Remember, that there most likely will be a face to face interview and the EPR is a great basis for discussion.

imported_DannyJ
09-30-2013, 03:42 AM
To answer the thread title: to waste millions of SNCO and O man hours on thesaurus.com to fill blank spaces.

LogDog
09-30-2013, 04:27 AM
Fair enough, but look at this way...what if its an ex air force guy who's doing the hiring and knows good and well that EPRs in fact DO NOT reflect anything other than fluffed up BS, who's he gonna hire now?
Then I'd say the guy who is hiring is biased. If the guy has any smarts about him then he'd be able to separate the fluff from the substance especially if he's hiring in the same career field as the applicant performed in the AF. Having sat on numerous boards as well as being a squadron and group superintendent, it wasn't hard to identify the fluff.

Remember, the EPRs are used as supporting documentation and are available to the potential employer upon request just as a letter of recommendation from a former employer or acquaintance is. I doubt most employers will ask for them but if they do it probably means you're being serious considered for the position and having what you said you have also shows integrity; a very good selling point.

LogDog
09-30-2013, 04:37 AM
I think as long as the AF person was discharged honorably, they would get the job. The EPRs may have fluff, but they still portray job experience and accomplishments.
Remember, that there most likely will be a face to face interview and the EPR is a great basis for discussion.
The way I look at it is it shows how you've performed over the years. What documentation does a civilian have? If the employer asks for them then by all means, give it to them if you really want the job.

I've had prospective employers call me asking for recommendation of someone who got out. Most of the recommendations were for someone I didn't know because I'd just PCS'd into the organization and I ask those who'd been there the longest if they knew the person in question. Usually, no on remember the person and that's what I told them. For those I did know, I told them the truth about the person. I never gave a bad recommendation because of the handful of calls I received were about people who were good at their jobs.