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sharkhunter
09-25-2013, 11:17 PM
A high ranking officer or enlisted person walks into your section (announced or unannounced). He/she walks around the section and shakes everyone's hand and then asks a few questions.

1. How are you guys doing?
Lie: Good; alright; great!; or simple head nod.
Truth: Not well; depressed; sad; angry at (insert situation/person); stressed out over (insert issue)

2. What do you think of the new (insert item) policy?
Lie: It's good; it's okay;about time for change; or simple head nod
Truth: It sucks; its not effective; how will that affect us?; Didn't know about it?

3. What do you think of your leadership?
Lie: They're great; they're okay; or simple head nod
Truth: They suck; they only look after themselves; they don't have time for us; I don't trust them; or who?

4. Are you guys busy a lot?
Lie: Yes! ; Absolutely!; or Simple head nod
Truth: Not really; With busy work; only us lower ranks; or only the NCOIC

5. Do you like it here?
Lie: Yes I do; of course; great place to be; or simple head nod
Truth: No, I hate it here; I can deal with it; I cannot wait to PCS

6. You guys have anything else to add or ask me about?
Lie: No; not now; thanks for coming; come by whenever; or simple shake of the head
Truth: I have many things I want to say or express but doing so will only get me in trouble; Why is it that leaders constantly ask younger troops how they are doing but are afraid to ask the question because of the fear of reprisal?; Are you just asking that or do you generally want to hear from us?; Is there a catch to that question?

My question is, why do many of us keep lying?

efmbman
09-25-2013, 11:25 PM
Are those example lies really what people say?

Rusty Jones
09-25-2013, 11:36 PM
My question is, why do many of us keep lying?

Because if you tell the truth, you're gonna end up answering even more questions and going through a bunch of other nonsense... and nothing is going to change. If things are going to stay the same anyway, then it doesn't make sense to add to the nonsense that you're already putting up with.

sandsjames
09-26-2013, 02:59 AM
Because if you tell the truth, you're gonna end up answering even more questions and going through a bunch of other nonsense... and nothing is going to change. If things are going to stay the same anyway, then it doesn't make sense to add to the nonsense that you're already putting up with.

Absolutely...and you're going to end up being the one "tasked" to come up with solutions to the problems which will, in turn, end up taking hours of your time with no chance at any actual resolution. So we just nod and smile...

SomeRandomGuy
09-26-2013, 03:23 AM
Absolutely...and you're going to end up being the one "tasked" to come up with solutions to the problems which will, in turn, end up taking hours of your time with no chance at any actual resolution. So we just nod and smile...

Sometimes it depends who is asking and whether you think they are being sincere. I was TDY to Keesler one time and I ran into the finance career field manager at a bar. He was there with 2 Chiefs who I had worked for. They stopped me to say high. We talked for a few minutes and then he straight up asked me how I felt about the AFFSC (Ellsworth processing office). I straight up told him that it was a total disaster and it actually ended up being twice as much work for us base level people and actually lowered customer service. I explained in simple terms the issues we were dealing with and how the solution was to admit it was a mistake and bring back processing capability to base level. He looked a little bit stunned and said he had not really been getting that feedback from other bases. About a week later he sent out an email to ask for feedback on the issues I had brought up. It turns out every base agreed with me but no one would man up and be honest. If you think you have a fighting chance its worth bringing up the issue. Just make sure you are bringing up the issue to the right person. If you complain about your work hours to the career field manager he obviously cannot fix that. You need to bring that up to your commander or flight chief. Addressing issues to the proper person is key. Don't be the tech school Amn who told a 4 star general his mattress was not very comfortable. The general made every squadron do a mattress check and report back on the comfort of all of them. If he would have just said something to his MTL they had plenty of extra mattresses in supply.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-26-2013, 12:49 PM
There is a time to speak up and a time to keep your mouth shut. Knowing the difference between the two is what makes a person wise.

If you are part of any organization or social group you have got to be concerned with protocol because if you break it you'll be marginalized or crushed. That not just in the military, that is how any large group of people interact.

When a colonel or a chief comes into your duty section and starts asking questions, you can talk to them about issues, just make sure you aren't throwing someone in your chain of command under the bus if you do speak up.

I changed from a disgruntled airman into a sergeant when I accepted the fact that there was always going to be a system that was bigger than me and I'd be much better off paying attention to how that system worked. I also had to accept the fact that sometimes I was going to have to keep my mouth shut and and agree with it when I didn't want to.

It is a rare thing when speaking up and "telling the unvarnished truth" to a colonel who walks into your shop for a visit is the right thing to do.

I was also a hell of a lot happier in life when I realized that the "truth" most always has a subjective component to it. The "truth" often changes when you start examining it with a few other people.

sharkhunter

You don't have to lie but you do have to be careful with speaking your mind because it can be like letting a genie out of a bottle, there are consequences.

Giant Voice
09-26-2013, 01:48 PM
Lying is what keeps the mission going and morale sky high.

Also, if you're the only person that doesn't lie, you will be cast as a complainer/bitcher and your life will become hell. Been there, it sucks!

Pullinteeth
09-26-2013, 09:48 PM
Because if you tell the truth, you're gonna end up answering even more questions and going through a bunch of other nonsense... and nothing is going to change. If things are going to stay the same anyway, then it doesn't make sense to add to the nonsense that you're already putting up with.

Don't forget the fact that as soon as that person leaves the area, you are gonna get your @$$ handed to you by your leadership....

Rusty Jones
09-26-2013, 11:03 PM
This is kind of like the questionaire that has to be taken before the PRT (PT test in the AF).

A bunch of "yes or no" questions - like, are you sedentary? Do you experience pain when you run? - etc, etc.

To this day, I haven't figured out the "yes" answer - or combinations of answers - that will get you out of the PRT. But what I do know, is you'll simply get some lecture on whatever you answered "yes" to.

And then you're going to run the PRT anyway.

That's why I simply answer "no" to everything. Even if it's a flat-out lie.

Chief_KO
09-26-2013, 11:12 PM
The truth hurts...but leadership (at all levels) needs to hear the truth. Now, having said that, there is the correct level, time & place to consider. Like said early, don't tell the 4-star your mattress is lumpy (unless all previous attempts fail).
Dog & pony shows are valuable...IF leadership has the balls to take the DV to see the worst thing on base (or the worst thing in that DV's area of interest).

Rusty Jones
09-27-2013, 01:04 AM
The truth hurts...but leadership (at all levels) needs to hear the truth.

Yeah, but what good will that do anyone if leadership has no intention of fixing anything?

The whole situation seems kinda like a trap. Specifically, THIS trap:

http://www.sign-farm.com/images/137.JPG

Absinthe Anecdote
09-27-2013, 12:36 PM
That trap has already been sprung, you're good to go!

Pullinteeth
09-27-2013, 05:37 PM
This is kind of like the questionaire that has to be taken before the PRT (PT test in the AF).

A bunch of "yes or no" questions - like, are you sedentary? Do you experience pain when you run? - etc, etc.

To this day, I haven't figured out the "yes" answer - or combinations of answers - that will get you out of the PRT. But what I do know, is you'll simply get some lecture on whatever you answered "yes" to.

And then you're going to run the PRT anyway.

That's why I simply answer "no" to everything. Even if it's a flat-out lie.

When I saw the thread title, I immediately thought of ADAPT. If you go to ADAPT and tell the truth, it is likely that you will either have to give up drinking entirely (and who the hell wants to do THAT?) or your career will be over.

Giant Voice
09-27-2013, 06:18 PM
Same goes for Web HA. You answer yes to some of those questions, you'll have SS at your house checking on your kids, an appointment with your PCM, and a ticket to mental heath for anger issues. Answer no and drink til its dealt with.

Chief_KO
09-28-2013, 03:58 PM
Yeah, but what good will that do anyone if leadership has no intention of fixing anything?

I agree with you there. If they don't want to fix anything then they are not leaders. Now having said that bumper sticker, my experience has been that some things requiring fixing can be fixed at the SSgt-MSgt level.
Recently at my base the CCC was hanging with CE Airmen. He was working with them as they were replacing some damage concrete sidewalks & curbing. He asked if the damage was caused by the snow plow banging into the curb. The Airmen said no, the problem is the water drains directly into that area, freezes and breaks the concrete. The water is diverted by a large boulder that is along side the abandoned R/R tracks (which the R/R has recently removed). The Airmen brought to their supervisor the idea of moving the boulder 3 feet so the water would drain towards the drain. The answer was "No, it's the R/R's boulder, we can't move it." REALLY, WTF NCOs...1. Call the R/R and ask for permission (they already removed all the tracks, so really doubt they give a $hit). or 2. Get a forklift and move the boulder (chances are near 100% that no one other than the CE crew would ever notice or ever know it was moved).
The CCC got back with the CE/CCM to have it resolved...and to remind the NCOs/SNCOs to make decisions to fix things within their span of control.

Rizzo77
09-29-2013, 12:10 AM
When I saw the thread title, I immediately thought of ADAPT. If you go to ADAPT and tell the truth, it is likely that you will either have to give up drinking entirely (and who the hell wants to do THAT?) or your career will be over.

You sound like you are really confrontational, and unable to address your drinking problem. <SARCASM, so don't get mad>

During the upcoming drawdown, that whole program needs to go away.

Chief_KO
09-29-2013, 04:12 AM
Moving a boulder is against regs. You need to contact ce roads and grounds,
So they can coordinate workorder through safety. Can't just have anyone
Go around moving boulders, what if someone got injured and were
Not trained on equipment, what if there was a swallows nest on the
Boulder, what if a civilian contractor placed it there under a contract?.
Too many what ifs to not follow correct procedures Just cause CCC wants to hang around.

Good point on how we can overthink the easiest of decisions...

imported_chipotleboy
09-29-2013, 01:49 PM
During one of my PHAs, the questionnaire asked if I always used a condom while having sex. Since I just got married and my wife and I were trying to have children, I truthfully replied no.

Despite my explanation to the physicians assistant, he still was obliged to give me a stern lecture on safe sex and document it in my medical records.

I just left Tricare Prime and am going to a civilian doc. Big improvement from my perspective. Same goes for civilian dentists. I told my dental hygienist that military dentistry is one step below prison dentistry. After all, prisoners have rights!

Pullinteeth
09-30-2013, 06:40 PM
Or smoking....always lie on that one too.... I used to answer it honestly. I have maybe 1-2 a day-sometimes more, sometimes less. They assume I mean 1-2 PACKS...and I have to explain then still get the lecture. I am a grown-up. I may not make adult decisions but they are mine and I alone am responsible for them (unless it is drunken sex then I'm apparently not responsible).

20+Years
09-30-2013, 06:53 PM
I am not sure it is considered lying... but I learned a valuable lesson on withholding information. As a young SSgt, I saw many flight members come and go. Of course, trying to make a good impression when they first got to the flight, new members would tell the Flight CC I can do this or this or that. Everything from safety monitor to driving a forklift.

The TSgt I worked for would just sit there with a grin and shake his head. In his words, "Never tell them what you can do, then they will expect it".

I seem to now forget all the additional duties or "special" programs I ran at my previous base when I PCS. When someone asks who has experience in such and such, I just look at other people like "?". Is it lying?