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imported_StandardsAMust
09-24-2013, 06:30 PM
Here's what will take effect on 1 Oct 13 (talk about a complicated mess):

If an Airman fails the abdominal circumference measurement of the Fitness Assessment (FA) and passes the other three components with a composite score of 75 of the remaining 80 points, the FAC will administer the DoD prescribed Body Mass Index (BMI) screen
An Airman (both male and female) shall not exceed the maximum BMI of 25 in order to pass the body composition component
Chart below shows the maximum allowed weight, regardless of age and gender, that gives you a BMI of 25

If an Airman fails the BMI screen (BMI ≥ 25.1), then he or she will receive an additional Body Fat Assessment (BFA) (2 or 3 site taping)
Maximum body fat percentage of 18% for males and 26% for females
Measurements will be administered after the other 3 components are completed
Height must be measured without shoes to provide an accurate measurement

Each installation will have at least one primary (BFPM) and one alternate trained in these procedures
Alternate will be opposite gender of BFPM
Individuals will be taped by individuals of the same gender, however, in rare circumstances where an individual of the same gender is not available, an observer of the same gender must be present
Males measured on neck and abdomen (2 sites)
Females measured on neck, waist, and hips (3 sites)
Measurements will be taken on bare skin, with the exception of the hips – which is taken around non-restrictive gym shorts or undergarments (absolutely NO spandex or tights)

NECK Measure:
With the member looking straight ahead and shoulders down (not hunched), measure the neck circumference at a point just below the larynx (Adams Apple). Because of the shape of the neck, the tape will usually be angled down slightly toward the front similar to the shirt collar line. This angle will vary depending on where the larynx is located
Care should be taken so as not to involve the shoulder/neck muscles (trapezius) in the measurement
Round the neck measurement up to the nearest quarter inch; measure 3 times, then add the 3 measurements and divide by 3

WAIST Female:
With the member standing with arms at her sides and at the end of a normal relaxed exhalation, measure the natural waist circumference. Ensure the tape measure is horizontal all the way around the waist. The natural waist circumference is the narrowest point, usually located about half way between the navel and the lower end of the sternum (breastbone)
When it is not easy to distinguish the narrowest point, take several measurements and use the smallest measurement
Round the waist measurement down to the nearest quarter inch; measure 3 times, then add the 3 measurements and divide by 3

WAIST Male:
With the member standing with arms at his sides and at the end of a normal relaxed exhalation, measure the abdominal circumference at the navel while keeping the tape level (horizontal) to the floor. Ensure the tape measure is horizontal all the way around the abdomen
Round the abdomen measurement down to the nearest quarter inch; measure 3 times, then add the 3 measurements and divide by 3

HIP Female:
While facing the member’s right side, and with the tape measure level (horizontal) to the floor, measure the hips (buttocks) circumference by placing the tape (ensure the tape measure is horizontal all the way around) so it passes over the hips at the point that protrudes the farthest
EXCEPTION: Ensure no part of the leg or thigh is a part of the measurement. If so, raise the tape measure up (still keeping it horizontal) to the point in which no part of the leg or thigh is a part of the measurement
Round the hips measurement down to the nearest quarter inch; measure 3 times, then add the 3 measurements and divide by 3

Before inputting in AFFMS, STOP & look for Amn who:
Failed AC
Passed min for all 3 other comps
Obtained ≥60 of 80 possible pts from aerobic, p/u, s/u
If you have an Amn who meets all 3 conditions, input height/weight from scorecard in AFFMS Fitness calculator to determine BMI
If BMI ≤25.0, input FA results for aerobic, p/u, s/u with an exemption for AC in AFFMS and complete ETP memo

If BMI 25.1 or greater, administer 2/3 site taping
BF of ≤18% males, ≤26% females, input FA results for aerobic, p/u, s/u with an exemption for AC in AFFMS and complete ETP memo
BF of ≥19% males, ≥ 27% females, input FA results (as tested) for aerobic, p/u, s/u, and AC

Simplified walk test
No more HR!
New initial test appeal authority
AFBCMR out; Wg/CC in
Test in AFFMS = matter of record
BFPM must have Wg/CC’s approval, in writing, to delete FA from AFFMS
Process for AEW/CC review developed locally
Single component FA passing standard
Only req’d to meet component minimum
Passing standard for AC-only tests changed from:
M ≤ 37.5 & F ≤ 34.0 to M ≤ 39.0 & F ≤ 35.5

Having ≥ 1 exemption(s) means no BMI/BFA
BFPM will run BMI screen using height/weight from scorecard
If BMI screen failed (BMI ≥ 25.1), BFPM will administer 2/3 site taping
–Males: Neck, Abdominal
–Females: Neck, Waist, Hips
BFPM must have opposite gender BFA alternate appointed by FSS/CC

If Amn passes either BMI screen or BFA, they will be marked “Exempt” in AFFMS for the AC measurement
To properly track these instances, BFPM will email an exception to policy (ETP) letter within two duty days on all Amn who passed BMI screen
If Amn fails both BMI screen and BFA, enter FA in AFFMS as tested (AC, aerobic, p/u, s/u)

Okay...so, we have determined that PTLs can't even measure the waist correctly to begin with, now we are going to expect them to measure 2 to 3 other areas and do some complicated math with rounding up, down, all around, up a quarter, down a half...OMG...what a mess!

Giant Voice
09-24-2013, 07:09 PM
Do you have a link to this to see the weight chart?

Shaken1976
09-24-2013, 07:36 PM
If they backdated this I would have passed all tests. Grrr..

20+Years
09-24-2013, 08:07 PM
Yes, time for silicone neck injections and implants...

http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2011/11-695-03/killer-traps.jpg

I think that dude is sick. He has weird bumps all over. Maybe he got stung by a bee.

Capt Alfredo
09-24-2013, 11:58 PM
This cannot be serious. By this standard, a 5' 11" person who weighs 180 pounds would fail the BMI test. The old MAW for 71 inches used to be 199. What the hell?

Absinthe Anecdote
09-25-2013, 12:56 AM
This cannot be serious. By this standard, a 5' 11" person who weighs 180 pounds would fail the BMI test. The old MAW for 71 inches used to be 199. What the hell?

According to the NIH, a person who is 5'11" and 180 lbs has a BMI of 25.1 and is overweight.

Like I have been saying in here for a long time, most Americans are fat and out of touch with healthy weight standards.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/BMI/bmicalc.htm

CJSmith
09-25-2013, 01:06 AM
When I first came in, we had a VI maintenance guy who was in the too skinny club and they almost booted him.

When I signed up for DEP I weighed around 117 pounds. My min was 119 I think. My recruiter told me to eat some bacon to fatten up. I came in right at my weight.

Sigh....16 years and 60 pounds later......

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
09-25-2013, 01:19 AM
This test will be fair once they start taping a female's ass and thighs.

imnohero
09-25-2013, 01:21 AM
According to the NIH, a person who is 5'11" and 180 lbs has a BMI of 25.1 and is overweight.

Like I have been saying in here for a long time, most Americans are fat and out of touch with healthy weight standards.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/BMI/bmicalc.htm


from that very link:

It may overestimate body fat in athletes and others who have a muscular build.

You mean like when I was 25, weighed 205, had a 30" waist, ran 5k's for fun, and all I had to do was prove my "fitness" by pedalling a bike. (btw, if you want to look it up, I'm 75" tall) But I gues I was "overweight" just because the BMI chart says so. Or maybe I'm "out of touch"? LOL.

BMI and waist measurements are medical guidelines of health and weight... say it with me...GUIDELINES. They are not standards and they do not measure fitness.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-25-2013, 01:43 AM
from that very link:


You mean like when I was 25, weighed 205, had a 30" waist, ran 5k's for fun, and all I had to do was prove my "fitness" by pedalling a bike. (btw, if you want to look it up, I'm 75" tall) But I gues I was "overweight" just because the BMI chart says so. Or maybe I'm "out of touch"? LOL.

BMI and waist measurements are medical guidelines of health and weight... say it with me...GUIDELINES. They are not standards and they do not measure fitness.

How many people who are constantly moaning about the PT program fit the description in your post?

Athletic people are not the ones in trouble with the PT program.

imnohero
09-25-2013, 01:49 AM
Athletic people are not the ones in trouble with the PT program.

Perhaps not, the point is that BMI is no more an accurate measurement of fitness than waist measurement. But then again, we all know that the "fitness program" is no longer about fitness and mission readiness. That's just lipstick on the pig.

grimreaper
09-25-2013, 02:07 AM
According to the NIH, a person who is 5'11" and 180 lbs has a BMI of 25.1 and is overweight.

Like I have been saying in here for a long time, most Americans are fat and out of touch with healthy weight standards.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/BMI/bmicalc.htm


It all begs the question then if BMI is such a good indicator, then why don't we just use it and scrap the waist measurement? It doesn't take much at all for someone 5'11" to hit 180 lbs. This is Big Blue talking with a forked tongue. Out of one side of their mouth they are telling us that over a 39" waist is a fail, while out of the other, they are telling us that over a 25 BMI is. So which is it? I would like to see the person that has over a 39" waist that has under a 25 BMI. I don't think it's possible. In fact, I'm willing to bet there are a lot of people with a 35 or 36 inch waist who are over a 25 BMI, but according to the waist measurement, they are good to go. Again, so which is it?

This was simple Big Blue's way of coming up with a means to defend the ridiculous waist measurement by pointing to a system that will tell you that anyone with even the slightest bit of muscle mass is overweight. And then, to top it all off, they add even more measurements to an already broken system.

You really can't make this stuff up. It would probably have been better if they just left it alone. IMO, the constant changes are all but an outright admission that our PT program is F'ed.

grimreaper
09-25-2013, 02:19 AM
PT designer explains Air Force's new test

Teed off about the PT test? Scratching your head over why there's still a waist measurement? Or how come your run time counts six times more than your pushup score?

You're not alone.

Complaints and questions are still pouring into the Air Force, even though the service unveiled the new standards five months ago.

The man with the answers is Neal Baumgartner, a retired Air Force major and exercise physiologist now working as a civilian with the 342nd Training Squadron at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas.

Baumgartner helped design the Air Force's "Fit to Fight" fitness program in 2003 and he's the one who two top leaders —Maj. Gen. Darrell Jones, director of force management policy, and former Chief Master Sgt. of the Air Force Rodney McKinley — turned to when they wanted to revamp the service's PT test.



Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein

The first thing the AF should have done is to stop listening to Mr. Baumgartner. Question for Mr. Baumgartner...if you're such a PT wizard, why is it that our PT program is always in a constant state of flux? How many mulligans do you need before you get it right?

grimreaper
09-25-2013, 02:44 AM
Here is his photo as girls track coach, he's on the left:

But of course...had to know that a guy that invented a PT program so heavily weighted on running would be a track guy...and that leads to people running so much as either part of group PT or PTing on their own that people are developing knee and joint issues left and right. Any doctor worth a darn will tell you that running all the time isn't good for you. Sure, lots of people can run all the time and have it not affect them. I used to be one of them...key words being used to. I can still run, but it is not without a price. The only thing that's changed is my age. Big Blue is worried about people's heath? Then maybe they should be worried about people having knee replacements at 40 something years old.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-25-2013, 10:55 AM
Perhaps not, the point is that BMI is no more an accurate measurement of fitness than waist measurement. But then again, we all know that the "fitness program" is no longer about fitness and mission readiness. That's just lipstick on the pig.

BMI and waist measurement are useful indicators of health, specifically being overweight or obese. In all fairness to BMI, you should have quoted the preceding paragraph and not just the bullet point that fit your bias.

BMI is a useful measure of overweight and obesity. It is calculated from your height and weight. BMI is an estimate of body fat and a good gauge of your risk for diseases that can occur with more body fat. The higher your BMI, the higher your risk for certain diseases such as heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, gallstones, breathing problems, and certain cancers.

Although BMI can be used for most men and women, it does have some limits:

It may overestimate body fat in athletes and others who have a muscular build.

It may underestimate body fat in older persons and others who have lost muscle.

imnohero
09-25-2013, 11:24 AM
BMI and waist measurement are useful indicators of health, specifically being overweight or obese.


That's what I said.




BMI and waist measurements are medical guidelines of health and weight...

Absinthe Anecdote
09-25-2013, 11:45 AM
imnohero

Then what are we arguing about?

imported_UncommonSense
09-25-2013, 11:52 AM
The first thing the AF should have done is to stop listening to Mr. Baumgartner. Question for Mr. Baumgartner...if you're such a PT wizard, why is it that our PT program is always in a constant state of flux? How many mulligans do you need before you get it right?

If you haven't read it, do a search for Ben Gleason AF PT manifesto. He was Eglin AFB's Fitness Program Liason. It's a long but good read and who the AF should have listened to.

imnohero
09-25-2013, 12:02 PM
AA, I think we have a difference of opinion on the value of BMI as it relates to the fitness test.

sandsjames
09-25-2013, 12:37 PM
I'm a little confused. The OP says that the BMI will be determined if the other 3 total >60. If the passing score is a 75, should the BMI be determined if the other scores total at least 55, since the waist is worth 20?

Absinthe Anecdote
09-25-2013, 01:52 PM
AA, I think we have a difference of opinion on the value of BMI as it relates to the fitness test.

Perhaps, we do but I think one aspect of this that is lost on people is that there used to be a separate weight management program.

Weight management and the PT program were merged a long time ago. It makes sense to be concerned about BMI and abdominal circumference.

I don't see the current program being unreasonable for members of a military service. It shouldn't matter if you are an office worker, cop, cook, or maintenance troop. What is the problem with mandating weight and fitness standards for the military?

imnohero
09-25-2013, 02:30 PM
Perhaps, we do but I think one aspect of this that is lost on people is that there used to be a separate weight management program.

Weight management and the PT program were merged a long time ago. It makes sense to be concerned about BMI and abdominal circumference.

I don't see the current program being unreasonable for members of a military service. It shouldn't matter if you are an office worker, cop, cook, or maintenance troop. What is the problem with mandating weight and fitness standards for the military?

Having a weight standard is just fine. Having a fitness standard is just fine. Mushing the two together, in one program, is the problem. Especially when the AF keeps giving lip service to the idea that a waist size (or now BMI) is a measure of fitness, instead of what they really want, which is a weight standard.

Honestly, I think there would be less heartburn about it if Big Blue just said that they wanted a weight and appearance standard and disconnected it from the Fit-Test score.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-25-2013, 04:38 PM
Having a weight standard is just fine. Having a fitness standard is just fine. Mushing the two together, in one program, is the problem. Especially when the AF keeps giving lip service to the idea that a waist size (or now BMI) is a measure of fitness, instead of what they really want, which is a weight standard.

Honestly, I think there would be less heartburn about it if Big Blue just said that they wanted a weight and appearance standard and disconnected it from the Fit-Test score.

Point taken.

I guess my "rock bottom line" is the whole fucking confusing program is irrelevant if a person eats right and exercises regularly.

If a person wants to be a couch potato, fine; they can look for employment in the Navy or at some Fat & Tall clothing retailer.

20+Years
09-25-2013, 05:43 PM
I've spent 23 years eating and drinking whatever I want and prepping for a PT test (and passing) a few weeks out. Nothing is going to change now...

imported_StandardsAMust
09-26-2013, 06:52 AM
I'm a little confused. The OP says that the BMI will be determined if the other 3 total >60. If the passing score is a 75, should the BMI be determined if the other scores total at least 55, since the waist is worth 20?

According to the chart, members will have to score 60 or more points from the run, p/u, and s/u components. The run accounts for 60 pts, the others 10 pts each...for a total of 80. So, to get a 75% score, you will need 60 or more points.

sandsjames
09-26-2013, 11:26 AM
According to the chart, members will have to score 60 or more points from the run, p/u, and s/u components. The run accounts for 60 pts, the others 10 pts each...for a total of 80. So, to get a 75% score, you will need 60 or more points.

Ohh...I see...so it's scored as if you are exempt from the waist...gotcha...

imported_UncommonSense
09-26-2013, 12:02 PM
Ohh...I see...so it's scored as if you are exempt from the waist...gotcha...

I think the wording just makes it appear complicated. From what I've gathered, if you fail the waist measurement but meet either the BMI or fat taping, you will get 15 points, which should be the amount you receive if you taped at 39" originally. Those 15 points will get you to the passing score of 75. If you're below 60 points on the other components, there's no reason to go through the other 2 measurements because it is a fail anyways. The way I see it, this should eliminate the excuse of not trying on the other components if you bust max waist off the bat (which I was guilty of the only time I failed that portion.) The only question I would have when it comes to this is when will the fat tape test occur. If it is immediately after the rest of the test, that's a huge foul. But, in all honesty, someone with a 40" waist is highly unlikely to pass the tape test unless they have a super neck, or a huge extra chin a la former SECAF Roche.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/James_Roche_press_conference.jpg/398px-James_Roche_press_conference.jpg


The above post is all speculation on my part.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-26-2013, 02:31 PM
how do you post images on this forum? All I get is a URL window with no way to browse for the image.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-26-2013, 03:29 PM
so you can't upload a file from your computer...

imported_StandardsAMust
10-01-2013, 12:27 PM
The Air Force misses the 1 Oct 13 date for the new PT standards to take place...wow...imagine that. The new standards are delayed until the fitness AFI can be updated.

Class5Kayaker
10-01-2013, 06:52 PM
The Air Force misses the 1 Oct 13 date for the new PT standards to take place...wow...imagine that. The new standards are delayed until the fitness AFI can be updated.

What world do you live in man? Do you think with all the shut-down stuff giong on that anyone besides you gives a shit about the new PT guidance? I think the folks on staff, etc. have much bigger things to worry about right now.

imported_StandardsAMust
10-01-2013, 07:12 PM
What world do you live in man? Do you think with all the shut-down stuff giong on that anyone besides you gives a shit about the new PT guidance? I think the folks on staff, etc. have much bigger things to worry about right now.

The government shutdown has nothing to do with the delay of PT guidance...that should have hit the street weeks ago. When the CSAF sends a message to everyone in the AF saying these changes take place on 1 Oct 13, then nothing happens, he begins to lose some credibility. But those of us on the inside knew it would be missed...it was too much change in a short period of time. The fitness program needs at least 6 months before anything can be changed and then work properly.

Class5Kayaker
10-01-2013, 07:44 PM
The government shutdown has nothing to do with the delay of PT guidance...that should have hit the street weeks ago. When the CSAF sends a message to everyone in the AF saying these changes take place on 1 Oct 13, then nothing happens, he begins to lose some credibility. But those of us on the inside knew it would be missed...it was too much change in a short period of time. The fitness program needs at least 6 months before anything can be changed and then work properly.

You think their focus didn't change at least a week ago when this whole thing started to look like it might happen? Guess what man, there's WAY more important things out there than PT. As much as I hate how slow they've been to make changes, and how a lot of the changes are worse than what we already had, even I have to give them a "pass" on not meeting their self-imposed deadline of 1 Oct.

20+Years
10-01-2013, 09:18 PM
I'd rather have a budget. I won't hold my breath though. I'd settle for another year of continuing resolution.

Class5Kayaker
10-01-2013, 09:20 PM
Tingley was unable to say the reason for the delay, but another Air Force official who asked not to be identified said the civilians whose job is to publish the instruction have been furloughed due to the government shutdown.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20131001/NEWS/310010027/Shutdown-delays-new-fitness-standards

Text to make this post long enough

imported_UncommonSense
10-02-2013, 12:35 PM
The government shutdown has nothing to do with the delay of PT guidance...that should have hit the street weeks ago. When the CSAF sends a message to everyone in the AF saying these changes take place on 1 Oct 13, then nothing happens, he begins to lose some credibility. But those of us on the inside knew it would be missed...it was too much change in a short period of time. The fitness program needs at least 6 months before anything can be changed and then work properly.

Then why are you so upset/disappointed if you knew the deadline would be missed? You should email General Welsh with your concerns about him busting his suspense if it means that much to you.

Class5Kayaker
10-03-2013, 09:02 PM
Then why are you so upset/disappointed if you knew the deadline would be missed? You should email General Welsh with your concerns about him busting his suspense if it means that much to you.

Hell, just do one of those classic "reply all" to the entire global adress list and let the fun begin. There were a couple of doozies back in the day. I don't think that's even possible any more though.