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imported_StandardsAMust
09-22-2013, 02:23 PM
Straight from AFT editorial section...guess there is only one other person in the AF that agrees with me and I applaud his courage to identify himself.

NO EXCUSE FOR PT FAILS

The physical training guidance and changes aren’t what’s causing people to pass or fail. It’s poor discipline, poor eating habits, ignorance and laziness.
We need to stop letting people get away with multiple fails. We all know the requirements at a minimum six months prior to testing. There are no grounds to complain about any of it.
Quit seeking out a waiver/profile when your test date rolls around because you are too lazy to exercise. We have the easiest test of any branch.
Maybe implementing no-notice PT tests would keep members more on their toes; or it would help get rid of those who just want to complain versus those who take it upon themselves to get out and run. I can’t believe the overweight bodies I still see in the Air Force. It’s simple:You people are not within Air Force standards.

Master Sgt. Craig Dawdy
Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho

It’s poor discipline, poor eating habits, ignorance and laziness. (BINGO)
Quit seeking out a waiver/profile when your test date rolls around because you are too lazy to exercise. (Air Force needs to fix this)
We have the easiest test of any branch (not so sure about that one...I think alot of Army and Navy would fail ours, Marines would do okay...assuming the test was administered properly...which isn't the case today now that the FACs have dissolved to low ranking, untrained Airmen).
I can’t believe the overweight bodies I still see in the Air Force (It's called body wraps or tape test tightening).
Maybe implementing no-notice PT tests would keep members more on their toes. (Plausible suggestion, but highly unlikely...members must fill out that questionairre at least 7 days before the test)
It’s simple:You people are not within Air Force standards. (StandardsAMust)

sandsjames
09-22-2013, 02:36 PM
Straight from AFT editorial section...guess there is only one other person in the AF that agrees with me and I applaud his courage to identify himself.

NO EXCUSE FOR PT FAILS

The physical training guidance and changes aren’t what’s causing people to pass or fail. It’s poor discipline, poor eating habits, ignorance and laziness.
We need to stop letting people get away with multiple fails. We all know the requirements at a minimum six months prior to testing. There are no grounds to complain about any of it.
Quit seeking out awaiver/profile when your test date rolls around because you are too lazy to exercise. We have the easiest test of any branch.
Maybe implementing no-notice PT tests would keep members more on their toes; or it would help get rid of those who just want to complain versus those who take it upon themselves to get out and run. I can’t believe the overweight bodies I still see in the Air Force. It’s simple:You people are not within Air Force standards.

Master Sgt. Craig Dawdy
Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho

It’s poor discipline, poor eating habits, ignorance and laziness. (BINGO)
Quit seeking out awaiver/profile when your test date rolls around because you are too lazy to exercise. (Air Force needs to fix this)
We have the easiest test of any branch (not so sure about that one...I think alot of Army and Navy would fail ours, Marines would do okay).
I can’t believe the overweight bodies I still see in the Air Force (It's called body wraps or tape test tightening).
Maybe implementing no-notice PT tests would keep members more on their toes. (Plausible suggestion, but highly unlikely...members must fill out that questionairre at least 7 days before the test)
It’s simple:You people are not within Air Force standards. (StandardsAMust)

Bullshit...I know there are some who "seek out" waivers, but waivers are NOT easy to get. As a matter of fact, military doctors now assume you are looking for a way out of PT. The first question I was always asked was "When do you test?" Why is that relevant?

One of the major reasons people fail is because of the squadron PT program. It does nothing to prepare you for the test. And I know you can still do stuff on your own, but with short manning, long duty days, and hour of "off duty" for Sq PT, some people like to spend an hour or two with their spouse and kids once in awhile. This MSgt is a DB.

Oh, and he sent this thing out for one reason and one reason only. He's looking for a "mentoring" bullet for his SMSgt package.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
09-22-2013, 03:03 PM
Push-ups, sit-ups, running. These are the ONLY three things PT sessions should focus on. I got so sick and tired of hearing, "we do grab-ass sessions because it 'works your core'." Bullshit. If you want to practice for a jump rope contest, then you don't practice hop-scotch.

sandsjames
09-22-2013, 03:17 PM
Push-ups, sit-ups, running. These are the ONLY three things PT sessions should focus on. I got so sick and tired of hearing, "we do grab-ass sessions because it 'works your core'." Bullshit. If you want to practice for a jump rope contest, then you don't practice hop-scotch.

Yup...Got so tired of the fad of the week, depending who the PTL is that week. Hell, we had a PTL who was into MMA, so for a couple weeks, our PT sessions consisted of learning to punch and kick...and the Commander didn't have anything to say about it. It's a joke.

I will say, the last time I ran was about 8 1/2 months ago (no need to run the last 6 months before my retirement) and my body feels so much better than it has for the last 4 years.

SomeRandomGuy
09-22-2013, 03:21 PM
Push-ups, sit-ups, running. These are the ONLY three things PT sessions should focus on. I got so sick and tired of hearing, "we do grab-ass sessions because it 'works your core'." Bullshit. If you want to practice for a jump rope contest, then you don't practice hop-scotch.

I agree. It is also important to note that 60% of the test is based on your run so the bulk of PT sessions should be unit runs. Its great that some people enjoy "amazing abs" on their own time but for mandatory unit PT you shouldn't spend a whole session working on abs which is only 10% of the test and most people do not have an issue with.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
09-22-2013, 03:23 PM
Yup...Got so tired of the fad of the week, depending who the PTL is that week. Hell, we had a PTL who was into MMA, so for a couple weeks, our PT sessions consisted of learning to punch and kick...and the Commander didn't have anything to say about it. It's a joke.

I will say, the last time I ran was about 8 1/2 months ago (no need to run the last 6 months before my retirement) and my body feels so much better than it has for the last 4 years.

I too quit running, but after about one month of terminal leave. My tendons, ankles and heels hurt, so finally I asked myself, "why the eff do I still do this?" After that day I took up incline treadmill walks and bike riding. I feel healthier now than anytime during my last two years in uniform. On another note, I just saw my first retirement pay statement. It's like I just hit the lottery for $800 per week tax free for life. Woo hoo!

Silverback
09-22-2013, 03:23 PM
Push-ups, sit-ups, running. These are the ONLY three things PT sessions should focus on. I got so sick and tired of hearing, "we do grab-ass sessions because it 'works your core'." Bullshit. If you want to practice for a jump rope contest, then you don't practice hop-scotch.

Agreed. I once had a squadron commander that made us do the same workout (Mon, Wed, Fri). We would do push ups, sit ups, and then run 3 miles. Why? Because it was these three components that we were being tested on.

BOSS302
09-23-2013, 08:30 AM
Yup...Got so tired of the fad of the week, depending who the PTL is that week. Hell, we had a PTL who was into MMA, so for a couple weeks, our PT sessions consisted of learning to punch and kick...and the Commander didn't have anything to say about it. It's a joke.

I will say, the last time I ran was about 8 1/2 months ago (no need to run the last 6 months before my retirement) and my body feels so much better than it has for the last 4 years.

There is nothing worse than a PTL pushing a "flavor of the week" workout on an entire squadron. I've been in sessions so bad that I've resorted to doing my own exercises during the formation. I've had to deal with the following:

MMA Dude: He thinks the morning PT session is his personal version of Never Back Down

HIIT Dude: Confuses "squadron PT" with his dream of "Tough Mudder" meets "Hardcore Parkour".

CrossFit Dude: Sees squadron PT as another step towards a Reebok CrossFit Games sponsorship.

Over-Motivational Dude: Usually a high-speed SrA or SSgt that forgets the person he is rudely yelling at to "have better form" or to "put in more effort" is our Ops CC major or is the CEM. PT gear may lack rank, an adrenaline high from a workout may cloud one's judgment or get one "amped-up", and a select few might see this "rudeness" as "motivation"...but once PT is over and the normal real-world of operations and ABUs with name/rank returns, I feel for them :D

71Fish
09-23-2013, 01:40 PM
I think some of you retirees (of which I am one) would be better off hanging out at the VFW smoking cigarettes and drinking stale Coors Light, complaining about how things used to be.

Giant Voice
09-23-2013, 01:43 PM
I'm a cyclist. I only run for about 2 weeks prior to my test to get my legs used to the impact of running. I do enough p/u's and s/u's to keep my muscles decent. Scored my first sub 90(89.5) this year. No excuses although I had a sinus inf and couldn't breath(I know...thats an excuse).

I don't do sq pt...its a joke(run one day, gator ball, ultimate frisbee)

sandsjames
09-23-2013, 02:23 PM
I'm a cyclist. I only run for about 2 weeks prior to my test to get my legs used to the impact of running. I do enough p/u's and s/u's to keep my muscles decent. Scored my first sub 90(89.5) this year. No excuses although I had a sinus inf and couldn't breath(I know...thats an excuse).

I don't do sq pt...its a joke(run one day, gator ball, ultimate frisbee)

Why would you need an excuse...you passed with an 89.5. It's sad that people think there's something wrong with that.

Stalwart
09-23-2013, 02:36 PM
I don't have any personnel right now. In the past as a Division Officer the basic routine was:

-Two days a week, PRT improvement via pushup, situps, running. Sometimes we ran long and slow for endurence , sometimes we did sprint training to improve speed.
-One day a week, something fun & espirit d'corps building ie. flag football or whatever -- usually the Sailors' choice.
-Once a month we would do mock PRTs so the LCPO and I knew who may need to PT more than 3 times a week.
-As we got about a month out from the PRT the fun day usually went away.

No need to try and run people into the ground.

I am 41, have had a knee rebuilt, and have a bad back and neck from parachuting but still manage to average in the top 5% most of the time.

The PT test is pretty easy to pass, failing it is usually a result of old fashioned laziness.

sandsjames
09-23-2013, 02:51 PM
I don't have any personnel right now. In the past as a Division Officer the basic routine was:

-Two days a week, PRT improvement via pushup, situps, running. Sometimes we ran long and slow for endurence , sometimes we did sprint training to improve speed.
-One day a week, something fun & espirit d'corps building ie. flag football or whatever -- usually the Sailors' choice.
-Once a month we would do mock PRTs so the LCPO and I knew who may need to PT more than 3 times a week.
-As we got about a month out from the PRT the fun day usually went away.

No need to try and run people into the ground.

I am 41, have had a knee rebuilt, and have a bad back and neck from parachuting but still manage to average in the top 5% most of the time.

The PT test is pretty easy to pass, failing it is usually a result of old fashioned laziness.

The only part I don't like about the "mock" PT test is that they turn into a disciplinary issue if someone doesn't do well. That's not what they should be used for. They should be used for 2 things...1) let the person know what they need to improve and 2)let the "leadership" determine if the squadron PT program needs to be tweeked (ie. are the PT sessions doing any good). Instead, the mocks turn into an excuse to send people to separate PT sessions with the HAWC, etc. I'd rather see a real monthly test than a mock test.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-23-2013, 03:01 PM
The only part I don't like about the "mock" PT test is that they turn into a disciplinary issue if someone doesn't do well. That's not what they should be used for. They should be used for 2 things...1) let the person know what they need to improve and 2)let the "leadership" determine if the squadron PT program needs to be tweeked (ie. are the PT sessions doing any good). Instead, the mocks turn into an excuse to send people to separate PT sessions with the HAWC, etc. I'd rather see a real monthly test than a mock test.

The AFI specifically says that all members must be physically fit, 365 days a year, not just for testing purposes.

sandsjames
09-23-2013, 03:04 PM
The AFI specifically says that all members must be physically fit, 365 days a year, not just for testing purposes.

Yes, but it also states that mock tests are NOT to be used for disciplinary reasons.

20+Years
09-23-2013, 03:17 PM
The AFI specifically says that all members must be physically fit, 365 days a year, not just for testing purposes.

I don't disagree with you or the guy in the article. Most people are out of shape because they don't exercise. Its laziness and bad eating habits pure and simple. Even if you only spend 2-3 weeks preparing for the test, you should be able to "gut out" at least an 80. As I see the culture changing my unit has climbed to a 75% above 90 pass rate. The ones still on the 6 month cycle... yup, thats where you will find the big waists and low exercise routines.

I still want taping to be fixed. Two PTLs, two different measurments. That is not correct. Its also the same subjectivity that allows the 42 in waists to read 39 and not get in trouble. Fix taping and the program is where I think it needs to be.

Stalwart
09-23-2013, 03:17 PM
The only part I don't like about the "mock" PT test is that they turn into a disciplinary issue if someone doesn't do well.


Concur.

I don't consider it disciplinary though if I am identifying who needs to PT more than the required 3 times a week. I have offered to do extra PT with people who needed it or didn't have the motivation, offered to let them have an extra hour at lunch to get in some PT -- if that is what they were going to use it for etc. But yes, I could see where people could abuse that.

One division I was put in charge of had so many people that had failed the PRT (and a few in danger of admin separation) that we did PT five times a week until the next PRT even though the Navy instruction says that only three sessions are required. We only had one failure after the next test and it saved a couple of people from having their third failure (automatic requirement to process for admin separation.)

71Fish
09-23-2013, 03:25 PM
The only part I don't like about the "mock" PT test is that they turn into a disciplinary issue if someone doesn't do well. That's not what they should be used for. They should be used for 2 things...1) let the person know what they need to improve and 2)let the "leadership" determine if the squadron PT program needs to be tweeked (ie. are the PT sessions doing any good). Instead, the mocks turn into an excuse to send people to separate PT sessions with the HAWC, etc. I'd rather see a real monthly test than a mock test.

You are right about that. I've seen it several times. I always scored in the 90s but during mock tests, but I hang back to help someone who needs it, and that's a problem.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-23-2013, 04:20 PM
You are right about that. I've seen it several times. I always scored in the 90s but during mock tests, but I hang back to help someone who needs it, and that's a problem.

I've never seen anyone in my unit get into "trouble" for failing a mock test...the only thing they get is "special" attention to get them back into shape...like being enrolled into the fitness improvement program.

What punishments are you seeing?

71Fish
09-23-2013, 04:28 PM
I've never seen anyone in my unit get into "trouble" for failing a mock test...the only thing they get is "special" attention to get them back into shape...like being enrolled into the fitness improvement program.

What punishments are you seeing?

I didn't say punishment. What they receive is unneeded attention. Not everyone is a super athlete. Like I did say in my post, I would hang back to help other and get accussed of not working hard enough even though I always scored in the 90s.

sandsjames
09-23-2013, 04:33 PM
I've never seen anyone in my unit get into "trouble" for failing a mock test...the only thing they get is "special" attention to get them back into shape...like being enrolled into the fitness improvement program.

What punishments are you seeing?

Ummm...the FIP is a "punishment". There's a huge disconnect between what some people see as punishment and what some see as correction. I struggled with the PRT for most of my career, and I can tell you, having to go into the gym for "boot camp" on days off (while working 12 hour shifts, Panama schedule) is a punishment.

sandsjames
09-23-2013, 04:35 PM
You are right about that. I've seen it several times. I always scored in the 90s but during mock tests, but I hang back to help someone who needs it, and that's a problem.

This is exactly one of the problems. We had several go through the same thing. 90s and above (on mock) were allowed to PT on their own, which is great. However, they would do what you were talking about and in essence being "punished" for trying to help others because their mock test would end up in the 80s. Pretty bad when you get unneeded attention for trying to help someone out on a test that is just supposed to be for people to see where they are.

efmbman
09-23-2013, 05:38 PM
I would do mock PT tests for my troops at least monthly. The feedback I got from them is that it showed that I cared about if they were going to pass. It is no secret that my rating was directly related to their performance, so I did have a vested interest. Whatever the reason, I felt it was in their (and my) best interest to perform well.

As a result, I knew my troops. If I saw one was dropping back to motivate another, I chalked it up to leadership in action. I knew these troops, so I would not use a bad time on the run as an accurate indicator if I knew that the troop would normally run well within time.

The next day, I would let the group in on the collective results. If the results showed we were lacking somewhat in push-ups, we would develop a course of action. Those that excelled in push-ups were not given a pass; they were consulted about ways to improve those that were not doing as well. Same with all the events - someone in the group is the best at that event so give that person a chance to shine and at the same time help the group. This forms teams and results in unit cohesion (at least it did in my experience). I was not a fan of anyone doing PT on their own. Not because I did not trust them, but I felt the cohesion of the unit outweighed any benefit of getting out of such an obvious requirement.

The results of any "test" should be used to determine training opportunities. The results should not be used as a way to punish or coerce. In today's military, the troops know the consequence of failure could be unemployment. If they don't know this by now, their leaders have failed them. Physical fitness is the responsibility of the individual and it always will be. However, there are great ways to get the troops to "buy in" on this. There will always be a few that no matter how much you try to motivate and encourage them, they will rebel and not succeed. I always felt these troops were not the ones we would want to see promoted, so the system was in place to handle that. It was not personal, it was business.

HMT
09-28-2013, 01:35 AM
This is my 3rd PT program in the AF. We have never had a difficult test. It is the individuals responsibility to get in shape and stay in shape. Here is a simple program that has worked for me in my 27 years in service:
1. Work out at least 3 times a week. 30 mins cardio/15 mins strength trng/10 mins stretching = 55 mins
2. Try to eat right. If you can't control your bad eating habits, add 2 more days to your work out...
3. 3 to 4 months prior to the test, run 1 1/2/do 50 pushups/100 situps at least 3 times a week
You will not fail the test. The test truly isn't designed for failures. However it will identify the folks not in good physical condition in terms of overall fitness.

efmbman
09-28-2013, 01:26 PM
We have never had a difficult test. It is the individuals responsibility to get in shape and stay in shape.

Most of what I have read here on MTF makes me think you are in the minority. Apparently, the Air Force PT test can only be passed by athletes of Olympic quality. Also, it is program (and management of the same) that is the cause of so many airmen failing.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-28-2013, 02:45 PM
Most of what I have read here on MTF makes me think you are in the minority. Apparently, the Air Force PT test can only be passed by athletes of Olympic quality. Also, it is program (and management of the same) that is the cause of so many airmen failing.

That's the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum.

Capt Alfredo
09-28-2013, 05:58 PM
That's the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum.

And something that practically no one who complains about the *administration* of the test ever says...

BOSS302
10-01-2013, 10:17 AM
Most of what I have read here on MTF makes me think you are in the minority. Apparently, the Air Force PT test can only be passed by athletes of Olympic quality. Also, it is program (and management of the same) that is the cause of so many airmen failing.

Negative. It's very easy to say "Most of what I have read on here..." since it is absolutely ambiguous.

The Air Force PFT is easy - pushups, sit-ups, run for 1.5 miles. If one is in normal shape and uninjured, then one can pass with ease. Where the disconnect begins is with 1) emphasis on PT, 2) how the program is administered, 3) how items 1 and 2 can combine into a negative force that discriminates against people with legitimate profiles, legitimate health issues, and people who have much worth to offer the Air Force but are instead marginalized due to a perverse focus on this one dysfunctional aspect of force health management.

It has been almost a decade now since the PT culture of the Air Force shifted dramatically. That means that for those who've been in, they've had a decade to adjust accordingly; for those coming in, they know the game from Week Zero and thus...no excuses.

It also means that the Air Force has had a decade to get this program right and yet here we are...five CSAFs and four CMSAF's later & it's still a mess. No excuses.


That's the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum.

You are easily and sadly amused.

imported_chipotleboy
10-02-2013, 08:47 PM
I was stationed at Eglin during the bike test days. But I still kept up my running. I wanted to be fast enough to outrun the EOD students. You know, just in case I had to.