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View Full Version : Church Members Mistreat Homeless Man in Church Unaware It Is Their Pastor in Disguise



Measure Man
09-20-2013, 03:49 PM
........

Rusty Jones
09-20-2013, 04:10 PM
I overestimated Christians. Seriously.

I'm not surprised at all that Christians had such attitudes. Not by a long shot.

What I AM surprised by, is that none of them checked those attitudes at the door; and at least tried to PRETEND that they cared about the guy so as to look good in front of their congregation.

Silverback
09-20-2013, 09:08 PM
Wow,

That was brilliant. Kind of reminds you of the TV show Undercover Boss. I am sure the pastor got his point across. Sometimes we all need a wake up call. Well done.

kool-aid
09-21-2013, 02:30 AM
I've heard of this kind of thing happening at several different churches. I think it's sad that some us talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It's always refreshing to see people lump all christians together because of the act of a few (if you count all of us in the world). There are jerks everywhere and being a christian doesn't make you exempt from it or make you perfect. we all struggle to try to be better people, but none of us can do it. Every time I hear this story, I just hope these people learned a little something about doing the right thing.

kool-aid
09-21-2013, 02:32 AM
I overestimated Christians. Seriously.

I'm not surprised at all that Christians had such attitudes. Not by a long shot.

What I AM surprised by, is that none of them checked those attitudes at the door; and at least tried to PRETEND that they cared about the guy so as to look good in front of their congregation.

I'm not surprised that you're not surprised. Christian people are still people, and people are screw up and far from perfect. I do feel sorry for this church that if this story is completely true is full of upity jackasses.

SomeRandomGuy
09-21-2013, 02:41 AM
I like people who shake things up...especially among the self-righteous:

This has been going around on Facebook lately. Snopes.com says undetermined on whether or not its true. Even if it isn't I still appreciate the message and think we can all learn something from it.

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/homelesspastor.asp

garhkal
09-21-2013, 03:32 AM
Wow,

That was brilliant. Kind of reminds you of the TV show Undercover Boss. I am sure the pastor got his point across. Sometimes we all need a wake up call. Well done.

Exactly.. Way to shake things up at his congregation. Though i am sure some might call what he did a 'sham' designed to humiliate his congregation.

imnohero
09-21-2013, 03:40 AM
Humility is one of the christian virtues, isn't it?

http://www.kevinscottwrites.com/2013/03/26/5-essential-elements-of-christian-humility/

Moderator edit: Member indicates this link goes to a Christian blog.

Mr. Squid
09-23-2013, 01:55 AM
Daaamn! Way to own thousands of self-righteous hypocrites in one fell swoop. I'm not even religious, but I'd give that pastor a handshake and a beer if I had the chance.

Pullinteeth
09-30-2013, 06:57 PM
This has been going around on Facebook lately. Snopes.com says undetermined on whether or not its true. Even if it isn't I still appreciate the message and think we can all learn something from it.

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/homelesspastor.asp

If you read the bottom, there is no reference to any reverend with that name (except on in which another minister likely referenced this story), it is reminicent of an actual experiment at Princeton in 1970 (the source of its very own urban legend), almost exactly the same as part of and anecdote from the 1897 "In His Steps: What would Jesus Do?" by Charles M. Sheldon, AND the pic isn't a minister, it is an actual homelss man in London.....


What I AM surprised by, is that none of them checked those attitudes at the door; and at least tried to PRETEND that they cared about the guy so as to look good in front of their congregation.

See you missed that part. As in any good urban legend, you have to have one or two that do the right thing to make it believable...in the story there were a few that greeted him....:drum

Absinthe Anecdote
09-30-2013, 07:08 PM
Where the hell is the original story?

Pullinteeth
10-08-2013, 02:59 PM
Where the hell is the original story?

Check the link to Snopes...it is there...

meatbringer
10-09-2013, 05:57 PM
So 3 out of 7-10,000 christians aren't hypocrites, and are actually decent people? That sounds about right.

Pullinteeth
10-09-2013, 06:38 PM
So 3 out of 7-10,000 christians aren't hypocrites, and are actually decent people? That sounds about right.

And you got this from..................?

meatbringer
10-09-2013, 07:15 PM
I read the article..........................................

Pullinteeth
10-09-2013, 07:17 PM
I read the article..........................................

So you take an article that has not been authenticated as anything but urban legend to condemn christians (who also happen to believe what you consider to be an urban legend)?

meatbringer
10-09-2013, 07:28 PM
Well, I based my post from the article and history. The bible has never been authenticated and is nothing but urban legend too. But seriously, what do you care? Stop being butthurt because you know I'm right.

Bunch
10-09-2013, 08:33 PM
Where the hell is the original story?

Looks like the story is a hoax.


A very heartwarming, poignant and apparently fake story has been making the rounds on social media and religious blogs this week.

The anecdote, which has been shared more tens of thousands on Facebook, features a preacher identified as Pastor Jeremiah Steepek, an individual pictured as a haggard, homeless man with a straggly beard.

And later in the article...



Perhaps more tellingly, Snopes, as well as Hoax-Slayer.com, revealed the stirring image of Steepek was in fact a picture of an English homeless man taken by photographer Brad Gerrard and readily available on Flikr and Tumblr.

Link to article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/26/pastor-jeremiah-steepek-hoax-homeless-fake_n_3654742.html

I blame JoeB...

kool-aid
10-09-2013, 08:59 PM
So 3 out of 7-10,000 christians aren't hypocrites, and are actually decent people? That sounds about right.

If it makes you feel better, I don't look homeless and generally have no one but church staff greet me at new churches. I don't hold it against anyone though, none of us is perfect and most will admit it.

AJBIGJ
10-09-2013, 10:20 PM
If it makes you feel better, I don't look homeless and generally have no one but church staff greet me at new churches. I don't hold it against anyone though, none of us is perfect and most will admit it.

Adding to that, some people are just shy. I wouldn't exactly call it sinful for a person to be a bit introverted.

Rusty Jones
10-10-2013, 09:22 PM
Adding to that, some people are just shy. I wouldn't exactly call it sinful for a person to be a bit introverted.

...how is being "shy" or "introverted" an excuse, when the "homeless" man is the one initiating contact and making the requests?

kool-aid
10-10-2013, 11:08 PM
Adding to that, some people are just shy. I wouldn't exactly call it sinful for a person to be a bit introverted.

And he wasn't talking to them according to the story, he was asking for money. I've worked with homeless people regularly and we tell people not to give them money. If they need food, get them some, if they need clothes, buy them some, if they need shelter, get them a room or a tent. I still think people are jerks though and prob most would ignore him, but like I said, being a christian doesn't make you perfect or magically comfortable enough to reach out to someone who is out of your social comfort level.

Pullinteeth
10-10-2013, 11:59 PM
...how is being "shy" or "introverted" an excuse, when the "homeless" man is the one initiating contact and making the requests?

How about the fact that the whole thing was made-up? I get that atheists think that christians believe in a myth but how in the FUCK can someone use an urban legend to bash on people they disparage for believing a myth? WTF kind of sense does THAT make?

AJBIGJ
10-11-2013, 02:21 AM
...how is being "shy" or "introverted" an excuse, when the "homeless" man is the one initiating contact and making the requests?

Presuming the hypothetical, in all honesty, how would you see yourself responding to someone who bore all resemblance to a sycophant, who just approaches random strangers asking for money, would you not be a tad cautious to drop a $20 on the guy when your inclination might be that he might be looking to get a pack of booze? In truth, I've met very few people in general who would respond positively when put in the situation. Now, should we hold Christians to a higher standard? A Christian might and probably should believe so, but an Atheist has no grounds whatsoever to state that a Christian should respond better on average than anyone else if their disbelief in items of faith is based on intellect. If one does believe that Christians should take the higher road, their Atheist beliefs is clearly not based solely on an intellectual disagreement.

Rusty Jones
10-11-2013, 11:30 AM
How about the fact that the whole tying was made-up? I get that atheists think that christians believe in a myth but how in the FUCK can someone use an urban legend to bash on people they disparage for believing a myth? WTF kind of sense does THAT make?

Okay, we've established that it's made up. I guess in addition to challenging things said in exaggeration, jest, and sarcasm... you'll also challenge hypothetical talk as well. Give it a rest, dude. Believe it or not, there ARE other people in this world who are equally as intelligent as you are.


Presuming the hypothetical, in all honesty, how would you see yourself responding to someone who bore all resemblance to a sycophant, who just approaches random strangers asking for money, would you not be a tad cautious to drop a $20 on the guy when your inclination might be that he might be looking to get a pack of booze? In truth, I've met very few people in general who would respond positively when put in the situation. Now, should we hold Christians to a higher standard? A Christian might and probably should believe so, but an Atheist has no grounds whatsoever to state that a Christian should respond better on average than anyone else if their disbelief in items of faith is based on intellect. If one does believe that Christians should take the higher road, their Atheist beliefs is clearly not based solely on an intellectual disagreement.

Well... not exactly. This isn't about double standards. This is about questioning whether or not people are actually true to the things they say. Have you heard any atheist say that it's his duty as an atheist to help the less fortunate? That's why you can't hold atheists to that standard. Because we don't claim to have it. Christians, on the other hand...

Greg
10-11-2013, 11:44 AM
Well... not exactly. This isn't about double standards. This is about questioning whether or not people are actually true to the things they say. Have you heard any atheist say that it's his duty as an atheist to help the less fortunate? That's why you can't hold atheists to that standard. Because we don't claim to have it. Christians, on the other hand...

I suggest you re-read your quote, and then take a hard look at the second, and last sentences.

Rusty Jones
10-11-2013, 11:46 AM
I suggest you re-read your quote, and then take a hard look at the second, and last sentences.

Eat a dick.

So what are your thoughts, AJ?

sandsjames
10-11-2013, 11:54 AM
Eat a dick.



So typical, it's pathetic.

AJBIGJ
10-11-2013, 12:51 PM
Eat a dick.

So what are your thoughts, AJ?

An intellectual argument for Atheism wouldn't concern itself very much with the actions of individual Christians. An intellectual argument addresses the faults of the faith system itself, not its members. For instance, one who chooses to have no belief because there is insufficient evidence to prove the positive or the negative regarding the existence of God or the validity of the story of Jesus Christ. A charge against the faith because of the actions of its members really has very little intellectual argument to it, except maybe the literal translation of a "New Creation" as depicted in the book of 2 Corinthians. If a person is in fact a non-believer then that verse should hold no more weight than any other in the Bible, because one already disbelieves the faith in general, so an Atheist who bases their position has no valid reason to believe a Christian should respond to environmental stimuli any differently from any other human being. The attempt to expose "hypocrisy" of individual Christians is not an intellectual position supporting Atheism, it is an emotional response to individual Christians who purport themselves as morally superior to any other individual. That is the fault of the individual, not the faith itself. It is a valid concern that some Christian individuals have consistently proven themselves to be hypocritical, but such is an argument against the Christian individuals, not the faith itself. The faith itself condemns the actions of the individuals. It would be akin to having a Christian make the arguments against Atheism by citing the actions of Pol Pot.

Rusty Jones
10-11-2013, 02:40 PM
An intellectual argument for Atheism wouldn't concern itself very much with the actions of individual Christians.

What the hell is Atheism? I assume you're talking about atheism. But what I'm saying is not an argument for atheism.


An intellectual argument addresses the faults of the faith system itself, not its members.

Isn't that what's happening? Religion is supposed to make its followers into better people, is not? But that's not happening, is it?

Christianity believes that one is saved through faith alone. So, as long as someone has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, the belief is that anything else that they do - or fail to thereof - will have no consequences. However... if one did have the faith, would they not be helping this man because of that faith?

What has "Christianity" really done for Christians? If I recall correctly, there were recent stats showing that over 95% of current prison inmates are Christian. This isn't me questioning the individuals; this is me questioning what Christianity has done for them. They were Christian, and they still committed a heinous crime that put them in their current position.

Mind you, I'm not arguing for atheism. If an atheist commits a crime, then he did so in accordance with his own personal morals which are totally different than mine or any other atheist.

Christians, however, read the same Bible and worship the same god.


For instance, one who chooses to have no belief because there is insufficient evidence to prove the positive or the negative regarding the existence of God or the validity of the story of Jesus Christ. A charge against the faith because of the actions of its members really has very little intellectual argument to it, except maybe the literal translation of a "New Creation" as depicted in the book of 2 Corinthians. If a person is in fact a non-believer then that verse should hold no more weight than any other in the Bible, because one already disbelieves the faith in general, so an Atheist who bases their position has no valid reason to believe a Christian should respond to environmental stimuli any differently from any other human being.

Not true. If enlisted person in uniform is walking past an officer in uniform, he's expected to salute - is he not? What about the civilian?

A Christian belongs to something where things are expected of him or her. An atheist does not.

The only time where you can hold and an atheist and a Christian to the same standard is when it comes to the law, or the rules and regulations of a non-government or non-religious organization that they might both belong to - for example, working for the same employer.


The attempt to expose "hypocrisy" of individual Christians is not an intellectual position supporting Atheism, it is an emotional response to individual Christians who prove themselves as morally superior to any other individual. That is the fault of the individual, not the faith itself. It is a valid concern that some Christian individuals have consistently proven themselves to be hypocritical, but such is an argument against the Christian individuals, not the faith itself. The faith itself condemns the actions of the individuals. It would be akin to having a Christian make the arguments against Atheism by citing the actions of Pol Pot.

The quality of any product is reflective of the workmanship of the person who produced it. That said... what has Christianity done for these Christians?

An argument against atheism because of Pol Pot would be invalid. Atheism is not a religion, and to say it is would be the same as saying that abstinence is a sex position.

SomeRandomGuy
10-11-2013, 03:06 PM
What has "Christianity" really done for Christians? If I recall correctly, there were recent stats showing that over 95% of current prison inmates are Christian. This isn't me questioning the individuals; this is me questioning what Christianity has done for them. They were Christian, and they still committed a heinous crime that put them in their current position.


Where did you hear this stat? Was it saying that these people were Christians before they were in prison or converted while in? A little known fact about prison is that in most places you can get your senetence shortened by one day for every self help meeting you attend (AA, NA, Anger Management, etc). My guess is these people attend the meetings to shorten their sentence and maybe even bought into the material presented.

I bet you would find that a large portion of recovering alcoholics are christians. I'm not so sure you can take that stat though and say that most christians are drunks. If you are willing to do that then I can convince you that eating ice cream causes drowning. If you look at the sales volume of ice cream you will find that in months where ice cream sales increase so does drowning.

AJBIGJ
10-11-2013, 03:36 PM
What the hell is Atheism? I assume you're talking about atheism. But what I'm saying is not an argument for atheism.

Isn't that what's happening? Religion is supposed to make its followers into better people, is not? But that's not happening, is it?

Christianity believes that one is saved through faith alone. So, as long as someone has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, the belief is that anything else that they do - or fail to thereof - will have no consequences. However... if one did have the faith, would they not be helping this man because of that faith?

What has "Christianity" really done for Christians? If I recall correctly, there were recent stats showing that over 95% of current prison inmates are Christian. This isn't me questioning the individuals; this is me questioning what Christianity has done for them. They were Christian, and they still committed a heinous crime that put them in their current position.

Mind you, I'm not arguing for atheism. If an atheist commits a crime, then he did so in accordance with his own personal morals which are totally different than mine or any other atheist.

Christians, however, read the same Bible and worship the same god.

Not true. If enlisted person in uniform is walking past an officer in uniform, he's expected to salute - is he not? What about the civilian?

A Christian belongs to something where things are expected of him or her. An atheist does not.

The only time where you can hold and an atheist and a Christian to the same standard is when it comes to the law, or the rules and regulations of a non-government or non-religious organization that they might both belong to - for example, working for the same employer.

The quality of any product is reflective of the workmanship of the person who produced it. That said... what has Christianity done for these Christians?

An argument against atheism because of Pol Pot would be invalid. Atheism is not a religion, and to say it is would be the same as saying that abstinence is a sex position.

You're absolutely correct about using Pol Pot as a case against Atheism being invalid, you cannot ascribe the actions of the individual who ascribes to Atheism to be equivalent to being morally supported by the philosophy itself. Whether you realize it or not, you are making a moral argument here. You are arguing that Christians who aspire to a faith, take actions which are contrary to the system of belief, and then subsequently cast moral judgments on other individuals for taking contrary actions are in fact hypocrites. This is a fair assertion, but in doing so, it is wrapped under the premise that taking a "hypocritical action" is morally incorrect, thus in doing so you likewise are casting a moral judgment upon these individuals. This would mean, by your own standards, if you are casting these aspersions on these individuals, you should never take an action which is contrary to this moral belief. So now, in your casting a moral judgment on individuals, yet ascribing to a different standard for yourself because you purport to allegedly have no specific moral code of any set variety, it is extremely disingenuous, and another word for it has already been used in quotes in this commentary.

People are human, Christians believe they are by definition imperfect beings. The fact that there are imperfect Christians helps emphasize the point.

What would not be intellectually disingenuous here would be to call out hypocritical individuals in general, the belief system the hypocritical individuals subscribe to is irrelevant.