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imported_StandardsAMust
09-19-2013, 05:18 PM
Our squadron CC just issued a policy that is sure to stir some controversy. Currently, the entire squadron has mandatory fitness gatherings three times a week...Mon, Wed, and Fri. Times change and vary throughout the year based on seasonal changes. Some love it, some hate it. Roll is not taken...it's on the honor system. Squadron leadership is always present. The new policy goes like this:

1. Recent guidance changes resulting in the implementation of the Development Special Duties (DSD) process has prompted me to make a change to my squadron fitness policy. During a recent evaluation of potential DSD candidates, the fitness program was a discreminating factor for many of our personnel. To be eligible for the DSD program, members must have a score of 90 or higher on their most recent fitness evaluation, an 80 or higher on their last two tests, and not be exempted from any component over the last 12 months.

2. Effective 1 Oct 13, Squadron PT will be revised to 5 days per week and will be led by a PTL. Workouts will last no more than one hour and will be completed during the duty day. Members who have tested in all four components and have scored 80 or higher are exempt from attending Squadron PT and may choose to workout however they wish.

3. Members who have a current unsatisfactory score will continue to be enrolled in the fitness improvement plan.

4. Members who have any exempted component(s) on their last official fitness assessment, as listed in AFFMS, on or after 1 Oct 13, will be enrolled into this program. Members with a valid AF Form 469/422 will workout according to the fitness prescription as listed.

5. Attendance is mandatory and will be taken. No-shows will be reported through the chain-of-command for action.

6. Members will be released from the program when they have an official score of 80 or higher on their most recent fitness assessment without any component exemptions.

7. Questions can be addressed to the UFPM, the First Sergeant, or myself. Exceptions to the policy will be considered on a case-by-case basis only.

Shaken1976
09-19-2013, 05:24 PM
Our squadron CC just issued a policy that is sure to stir some controversy. Currently, the entire squadron has mandatory fitness gatherings three times a week...Mon, Wed, and Fri. Times change and vary throughout the year based on seasonal changes. Some love it, some hate it. Roll is not taken...it's on the honor system. Squadron leadership is always present. The new policy goes like this:

1. Recent guidance changes resulting in the implementation of the Development Special Duties (DSD) process has prompted me to make a change to my squadron fitness policy. During a recent evaluation of potential DSD candidates, the fitness program was a discreminating factor for many of our personnel. To be eligible for the DSD program, members must have a score of 90 or higher on their most recent fitness evaluation, an 80 or higher on their last two tests, and not be exempted from any component over the last 12 months.

2. Effective 1 Oct 13, Squadron PT will be revised to 5 days per week and will be led by a PTL. Workouts will last no more than one hour and will be completed during the duty day. Members who have tested in all four components and have scored 80 or higher are exempt from attending Squadron PT and may choose to workout however they wish.

3. Members who have a current unsatisfactory score will continue to be enrolled in the fitness improvement plan.

4. Members who have any exempted component(s) on their last official fitness assessment, as listed in AFFMS, on or after 1 Oct 13, will be enrolled into this program. Members with a valid AF Form 469/422 will workout according to the fitness prescription as listed.

5. Attendance is mandatory and will be taken. No-shows will be reported through the chain-of-command for action.

6. Members will be released from the program when they have an official score of 80 or higher on their most recent fitness assessment without any component exemptions.

7. Questions can be addressed to the UFPM, the First Sergeant, or myself. Exceptions to the policy will be considered on a case-by-case basis only.

That's crazy. So if someone is undergoing an MEB and can't do much they still have to show up at this? What if they have a score of over an 80? Seems that is punishing a lot of people that may not need it. There may be some profile fakers out there. But what about the legit ones? If someone has a broken arm and can't do push ups but scored perfect on every other componant they are going to have to be in this program? Hmmm

SomeRandomGuy
09-19-2013, 05:28 PM
Holy crap...really?

I think we may have discovered ROAD/PT GOD's new account. :reporter:

imported_StandardsAMust
09-19-2013, 05:29 PM
That's crazy. So if someone is undergoing an MEB and can't do much they still have to show up at this? What if they have a score of over an 80? Seems that is punishing a lot of people that may not need it. There may be some profile fakers out there. But what about the legit ones? If someone has a broken arm and can't do push ups but scored perfect on every other componant they are going to have to be in this program? Hmmm

Exceptions to the policy will be considered on a case-by-case basis only.

RFScott
09-19-2013, 05:37 PM
My last squadron had a policy very similar to this one. It lasted a few months before the PTLs stopped caring or could not make it due to deployments, shift responsibilities, formal training, etc. Eventually control of fitness time was ceded back to duty section OICs/NCOICs.

Dickie
09-19-2013, 05:53 PM
This was implemented in my previous unit and it lasted all of a few months as well, when flying ops still had to occur and more of the crewmembers/ops support troops had flight related or instructor duties to attend to and we all had to be actually at work doing our jobs. To accomodate the PFT schedule. Same thing with us, control was back to the duty section OICs/NCOICs before we knew it.

poindexter
09-19-2013, 06:35 PM
So yea... my unit has the same policy and we currently have someone on profile because of a hip injury and surgery and the profile states that she can't do anything (walk/run/lift/push/stand/etc) so they have her sit on the bleachers until pt was done...

20+Years
09-19-2013, 06:50 PM
Makes perfect sense in today's Air Force.

You Sir wouldn't know what "Today's" Air Force is like. Now go to the commissary and write a check for prunes.

RFScott
09-19-2013, 07:01 PM
I can't tell you how ticked I was reading this while sitting at Minot.

PACAF site http://www.pacaf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123152039

http://www.pacaf.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/090527-F-7629T-003.jpg
http://www.pacaf.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/090527-F-7629T-002.jpg

We did that same shit at Hurlburt...it is not as fun as it looks...

poindexter
09-19-2013, 07:10 PM
I can't tell you how ticked I was reading this while sitting at Minot.

PACAF site http://www.pacaf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123152039

http://www.pacaf.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/090527-F-7629T-003.jpg
http://www.pacaf.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/090527-F-7629T-002.jpg


I'll throw some sand along 83 where the standing water is and we can work out there. :-)

imported_StandardsAMust
09-20-2013, 06:13 PM
You can't punish someone for being on profile. Making everyone who has a profile and not completed all the components show up for mandatory PT, even when they have a 80 or higher, when those without exemptions do not have to show up, is a form of punishment. All it will take is one complaint to the ADC or IG and it will end.

Being on a profile does not enroll you into the program. Having fitness exemptions does.

giggawatt
09-20-2013, 07:29 PM
I thought it was a 90 on the most current OR an 80 on the last 2 tests to be eligible for DSD.

Silverback
09-20-2013, 09:47 PM
I thought it was a 90 on the most current OR an 80 on the last 2 tests to be eligible for DSD.

That was the same information I received. My understanding was that a person needs a 90 if the PT test prior had any kind of exemption.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-21-2013, 07:44 AM
I hate to be the voice of common sense here, but you don't get fitness exemptions without a profile. They are being punished for being on a profile, plain and simple, no lawyer or IG is going buy that load of bullshit. It will take person to say not go, and get in trouble for it, that person go to ADC or the IG...commander will get his peepee smacked and it will never happen again. Hell if i knew which squadron was dong it, i'd call the base IG right now and report it.

Do you think the CC didn't run this by legal first? You must be silly. Anyway, it is not punishment. This is Squadron PT. He can mandate whomever he feels to go. The policy is legit, the sessions occur during duty hours. Not all people who have exemptions are on profile. You need to do some research.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-21-2013, 07:45 AM
I thought it was a 90 on the most current OR an 80 on the last 2 tests to be eligible for DSD.

You are correct. The policy states this fact.


That was the same information I received. My understanding was that a person needs a 90 if the PT test prior had any kind of exemption.

Wrong. Any fitness exemptions disqualifies regardless of score.

Silverback
09-21-2013, 11:35 PM
You are correct. The policy states this fact.



Wrong. Any fitness exemptions disqualifies regardless of score.

That's not what I meant. I realize now that my first post was a little vague. This is what I meant. I got this from myPers.

6. Must have scored 80 or above on last two fitness test, or 90 or above on most recent fitness test, no failure on any portion within the last 12 months or exemptions from any component.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-23-2013, 03:56 PM
The names of those affected by this policy were released by the UFPM on Friday. More than 70 names on the list. Looks like it has caught some off-guard. We have already heard that some are very upset and outraged by this. I will continue to monitor and see how this unfolds over the next few days...Oct 1 is just around the corner. On the flip side, there have been many positive comments from those that hate Sq PT and would rather workout on their own.

Bunch
09-23-2013, 03:58 PM
The names of those affected by this policy were released by the UFPM on Friday. More than 70 names on the list. Looks like it has caught some off-guard. We have already heard that some are very upset and outraged by this. I will continue to monitor and see how this unfolds over the next few days...Oct 1 is just around the corner. On the flip side, there have been many positive comments from those that hate Sq PT and would rather workout on their own.

WoW!! Public shaming and all...

What's next...firing squad?

imported_StandardsAMust
09-23-2013, 05:22 PM
WoW!! Public shaming and all...

What's next...firing squad?

Names were released to the flight chiefs...they make the notifications and re-work their scheduling if needed. Looks like there will be two times a day for Sq PT...0700-0800 and 1600-1700.

imported_CLSE
09-23-2013, 08:43 PM
Do you think the CC didn't run this by legal first? You must be silly. Anyway, it is not punishment. This is Squadron PT. He can mandate whomever he feels to go. The policy is legit, the sessions occur during duty hours. Not all people who have exemptions are on profile. You need to do some research.

Gonna guess that the answer is no, he didn't run it by legal.

More likely he figured he's the commander and knows that he can get away with anything that makes him look like a hardass when it comes to PT.

As far as the policy being legit, is he a doctor or an exercise physiologist or does he even know why his people are scoring less than an 80? If he actually knew what the hell he was doing, he wouldn't be establishing a blanket mandatory PT policy that requires everybody to attend the same training.

This is the same concept that many people have complained about here and that you and a lot of other people in the Air Force can't seem to comprehend:

Doing the wrong type of exercise is bad and doing it to excess is even worse

Bunch
09-23-2013, 08:48 PM
Names were released to the flight chiefs...they make the notifications and re-work their scheduling if needed. Looks like there will be two times a day for Sq PT...0700-0800 and 1600-1700.

Oh...that sounds about right...

BOSS302
09-24-2013, 10:42 AM
Gonna guess that the answer is no, he didn't run it by legal.

More likely he figured he's the commander and knows that he can get away with anything that makes him look like a hardass when it comes to PT.

As far as the policy being legit, is he a doctor or an exercise physiologist or does he even know why his people are scoring less than an 80? If he actually knew what the hell he was doing, he wouldn't be establishing a blanket mandatory PT policy that requires everybody to attend the same training.

This is the same concept that many people have complained about here and that you and a lot of other people in the Air Force can't seem to comprehend:

Doing the wrong type of exercise is bad and doing it to excess is even worse

Who cares? The commander and "leadership" surely does not care. What they do care about is the "gung-ho" high-speed PTL who is kicking asses and taking names. Screw everyone's tendons, ligaments, and muscles - they'll break their people so long as the slide for the squadron at the Wing meeting is "Green" or in the nth-percentile.

"Motivat'd NCO! Sqdn PT trainer/assessor; led 63 qrtly sessions/execut'd CC vsn--+300 prsnl cmbt rdy/Wg #1!"

.....Promote!

:sleeping:

Drackore
09-25-2013, 11:07 AM
I thought all squadron level OIs had to go through legal. If they didn't...I'd suggest pushing it through. If it did, I'd suggest rerouting it through for a sanity check. Not saying it isn't legal - it very well could be. Let the legal "experts" make that decision. It does sound like a witch hunt. Profiles and exemptions having to go to FIP? I'd be in FIP for the rest of my career. That's a load of crap. I'd be fighting that tooth and nail.

On the other hand...I see the necessity. There are so many freaking fakers out there that this would be a great "cure". I can't argue it for your CC for trying to combat that problem. Medical Hobby Shop lets anyone have a profile for any claim they come in with. My problem, however, is easily visible in X-rays and MRIs...and I still freaking passed all components (walked my cardio though..I'll never run again..but I did crank situps..doc didn't want me to, but I did it).

So it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You got people like me that will actually risk hurting themselves further to try to get off profile and do the actual test. You got people that try to fake themselves out of the test. Where is the happy medium?

imported_StandardsAMust
09-26-2013, 06:14 PM
I thought all squadron level OIs had to go through legal. If they didn't...I'd suggest pushing it through. If it did, I'd suggest rerouting it through for a sanity check. Not saying it isn't legal - it very well could be. Let the legal "experts" make that decision. It does sound like a witch hunt. Profiles and exemptions having to go to FIP? I'd be in FIP for the rest of my career. That's a load of crap. I'd be fighting that tooth and nail.

On the other hand...I see the necessity. There are so many freaking fakers out there that this would be a great "cure". I can't argue it for your CC for trying to combat that problem. Medical Hobby Shop lets anyone have a profile for any claim they come in with. My problem, however, is easily visible in X-rays and MRIs...and I still freaking passed all components (walked my cardio though..I'll never run again..but I did crank situps..doc didn't want me to, but I did it).

So it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You got people like me that will actually risk hurting themselves further to try to get off profile and do the actual test. You got people that try to fake themselves out of the test. Where is the happy medium?

It's not considered FIP. Just mandatory Sq PT for some folks. BTW, according to your posts, you wouldn't have to go if you don't have any exemptions on your last test.

We've got people retaking their tests now to get a full one before 1 Oct. We have others complaining. I'll let you know more later next week.

wildman
09-26-2013, 07:31 PM
Okay I'm going to start by saying I am not sure of this so help me out. Is it no longer Air Force standards for the P.T. test? Does the flight surgeon for the wing have to sign off on the profiles for one to be exempt from the test? How can a squadron commander override a profile? As I said I'm confused about all of this!

Always,
Wildman

Pullinteeth
09-26-2013, 09:12 PM
Being on a profile does not enroll you into the program. Having fitness exemptions does.

Duh...otherwise EVERYONE would be enrolled since EVERYONE is on a profile...:becky

imported_StandardsAMust
10-10-2013, 07:39 AM
First week in and problems have already started. Multiple absences is the first and leadership is addressing this. Already heard a few folks think that being on a profile exempts them from Squadron PT. That's why they weren't going. Guess that's the wrong answer. Had a few folks take a full PT test early to get out of the mandatory sessions. Have a few more signed up to take a full test this month because of this change. Rumor is some may have went to ADC but was told they can't help them unless some type of action was taken against them.

CC says he will address this at the weekly staff meeting to clarify any mis-interpretation of his policy.

Juggs
10-10-2013, 01:52 PM
We did that same shit at Hurlburt...it is not as fun as it looks...

When I was hurby we did that stuff for PT every week. We would ruck to the PT field, do PT then ruck to the sound and make sugar cookies then wash off, then PT some more then sugar cookies. It was more fun than it looked if you just played the game and didn't get pissed.

OtisRNeedleman
10-10-2013, 07:30 PM
We did that same shit at Hurlburt...it is not as fun as it looks...

It looks pretty damned stupid to me.