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Giant Voice
09-19-2013, 12:37 PM
Air Force Times:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130918/NEWS/309180022/Air-Force-s-top-enlisted-Roll-call-back

Color me out of touch, but being a F/L guy we've always held roll calls for all three shifts. Do other org's not do this daily???

RFScott
09-19-2013, 12:42 PM
In the weather career field we didn't have "roll calls", but we had a morning meteorological conference (METCON), in which everyone on duty that day would attend. Everyone would be briefed on the current weather situation, and lay out plans for the day in case the weather was supposed to suck and extra bodies were needed.

akruse
09-19-2013, 12:49 PM
Haven't this been said every couple of years now?

Pullinteeth
09-19-2013, 12:58 PM
Air Force Times:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130918/NEWS/309180022/Air-Force-s-top-enlisted-Roll-call-back

Color me out of touch, but being a F/L guy we've always held roll calls for all three shifts. Do other org's not do this daily???

18 plus years and counting...never had roll call... EVER. I wonder how exactly they are going to implement this? Methinks it is just some bullshit talk... I have people that work for me that are hours away. Do they really expect me to make everyone drive to one location so I can take roll daily/weekly? If so, that will basically mean we will shut down for the day.

SomeRandomGuy
09-19-2013, 01:05 PM
Air Force Times:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130918/NEWS/309180022/Air-Force-s-top-enlisted-Roll-call-back

Color me out of touch, but being a F/L guy we've always held roll calls for all three shifts. Do other org's not do this daily???

Off the record quote from CMSgt Cody:

I'm thinking about possibly making a change to the PT AFI but I need about 6 months for that. In the meantime I need to make some sort of change. Screw it lets make everyone do a roll call. Now of course I have no idea how this roll call will work but you guys can figure it out. I am also looking at possibly making changes to EPRs but I need more time on that too. In the meantime lets do roll call. I don't care how you do it and quite frankly it doesn't matter to me. I am busy thinking about possibly making changes to PT and EPRs. In the meantime FALL IN TROOPS WE ARE STARTING ROLL CALL."

Pullinteeth
09-19-2013, 01:07 PM
I lied. We had weekly roll call at tech school.

71Fish
09-19-2013, 01:08 PM
When I worked my noner job in mx, we had roll call everyday.

BRUWIN
09-19-2013, 01:15 PM
Air Force Times:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130918/NEWS/309180022/Air-Force-s-top-enlisted-Roll-call-back

Color me out of touch, but being a F/L guy we've always held roll calls for all three shifts. Do other org's not do this daily???

I was in maintenance at one time and we did it everyday and every shift as well. It's a lot more practical for maintenance...you guys have lots of space for a formal roll call albeit conducted in a hanger or whatever. Most organizations don't have that luxury.

In intel...my day starts with a pre-mission brief every day. It's not as formal as a maintenance roll call but it's the same principle except we don't scratch our armpits the entire time like the maintenance guys do.

SomeRandomGuy
09-19-2013, 01:25 PM
I was in maintenance at one time and we did it everyday and every shift as well. It's a lot more practical for maintenance...you guys have lots of space for a formal roll call albeit conducted in a hanger or whatever. Most organizations don't have that luxury.

In intel...my day starts with a pre-mission brief every day. It's not as formal as a maintenance roll call but it's the same principle except we don't scratch our armpits the entire time like the maintenance guys do.

We never really had roll call in Finance. Normally we started our day off with what we called "The lottery." We would put everyone's social security number in a random drawing to pick a winner. Once we selected a winner we would randomly screw up that person's pay and pretend like we had no idea how to fix it. As long as everyone was on the same page we could usually keep the winner coming back for weeks. They would keep trying to fix their pay and we all just kept pretending like we had no idea what was going on. Inevitably one of my co-workers who missed the original drawing would fix the problem. Then we had to have another drawing. Hopefully with this new roll call we can get everyone on the same page and beat our old record. One time we had a guy come in almost everyday for 6 months.

Bumble78
09-19-2013, 01:30 PM
http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130917/NEWS/309170031/Welsh-Empower-a
I am going to leave this here.

SomeRandomGuy
09-19-2013, 01:31 PM
http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130917/NEWS/309170031/Welsh-Empower-a
I am going to leave this here.

If you are going to post that link you should at least highlight the very first line.


If it sounds stupid, don’t do it, Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh advised airmen, supervisors and commanders Tuesday.

BRUWIN
09-19-2013, 01:33 PM
One time we had a guy come in almost everyday for 6 months.

You must have been at my location because I did have one SrA not get paid for 6 months. It got to the point where the issue was about to land on the MAJOCOM CC's desk. Yep...a MAJCOM CC to fix a SrA pay issue...that's where I was going next time he didn't get paid. It didn't help that he had rich parents that were covering him while all this was going on and he kept telling finance that.

Bumble78
09-19-2013, 01:42 PM
We never really had roll call in Finance. Normally we started our day off with what we called "The lottery." We would put everyone's social security number in a random drawing to pick a winner. Once we selected a winner we would randomly screw up that person's pay and pretend like we had no idea how to fix it. As long as everyone was on the same page we could usually keep the winner coming back for weeks. They would keep trying to fix their pay and we all just kept pretending like we had no idea what was going on. Inevitably one of my co-workers who missed the original drawing would fix the problem. Then we had to have another drawing. Hopefully with this new roll call we can get everyone on the same page and beat our old record. One time we had a guy come in almost everyday for 6 months.

I know it was you, Fredo. You broke my heart. You broke my heart!

AF Comm Guy
09-19-2013, 01:52 PM
I know it was you, Fredo. You broke my heart. You broke my heart!

"Hail Mary, full of grace. Blessed is the fruit of thy womb..."

Pullinteeth
09-19-2013, 01:58 PM
We never really had roll call in Finance. Normally we started our day off with what we called "The lottery." We would put everyone's social security number in a random drawing to pick a winner. Once we selected a winner we would randomly screw up that person's pay and pretend like we had no idea how to fix it. As long as everyone was on the same page we could usually keep the winner coming back for weeks. They would keep trying to fix their pay and we all just kept pretending like we had no idea what was going on. Inevitably one of my co-workers who missed the original drawing would fix the problem. Then we had to have another drawing. Hopefully with this new roll call we can get everyone on the same page and beat our old record. One time we had a guy come in almost everyday for 6 months.

Oh great and powerful god of the mysterious world of $$....would you please remove my SSN from your hat? It isn't that I don't worship the ground you walk on but I would rather not sully your heavens with my lowly presence....

AF Comm Guy
09-19-2013, 02:02 PM
You must have been at my location because I did have one SrA not get paid for 6 months. It got to the point where the issue was about to land on the MAJOCOM CC's desk. Yep...a MAJCOM CC to fix a SrA pay issue...that's where I was going next time he didn't get paid. It didn't help that he had rich parents that were covering him while all this was going on and he kept telling finance that.

I don't usually play one-up with stories but my ex-girlfriend is married to a guy who went about 18 months without a steady paycheck. He came in from the Army and something got severely messed up along the way. His entire chain of command up to the wing totally failed him when he asked for help. Finally she called me and asked for advice. I told her to document the hell of everything that has happened up to that point, who they had spoken to, what was said and to get signatures to what was said if possible. Take it straight to the wing CC and explain that the next step is the IG if it doesn't get fixed. Two months later, still nothing. Even the IG didn't seem to be taking action, I mean not even a peep was heard from them. So I told them to send copies of their documentation to the chain of command right up to the SECAF or higher and see what happens.

A few days later all Hell broke loose. CSAF, SECAF, MAJCOMCC and everyone on down the chain was getting their asses chewed off. They had sent the paperwork right up to the SECDEF and also to their senators and congressman. You can bet his pay problems got fixed really fast at that point. His boss was highly pissed that he went so far outside the chain of command but what else was he supposed to do? A year and a half of getting partial pay? The guy had to do something. It's the only time I've ever heard of the IG failing to take action on something or of a chain of command failing so miserably to fix something so trivial.

imported_UncommonSense
09-19-2013, 02:04 PM
Haven't this been said every couple of years now?

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/128430/chiefs-perspective-focuses-on-roll-call.aspx

Only official story I could find regarding it in the past. However, I remember getting briefed every couple of years since about 2001 that the roll call was making a return.

Gonzo432
09-19-2013, 02:16 PM
http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/128430/chiefs-perspective-focuses-on-roll-call.aspx

Only official story I could find regarding it in the past. However, I remember getting briefed every couple of years since about 2001 that the roll call was making a return.

I remember it starting from a throw-away line Gen Hornberg (COMACC) had, he called roll call a "lost art". Would've been around 2001 time.

SomeRandomGuy
09-19-2013, 02:25 PM
Oh great and powerful god of the mysterious world of $$....would you please remove my SSN from your hat? It isn't that I don't worship the ground you walk on but I would rather not sully your heavens with my lowly presence....

Sorry but SSNs cannot be removed from the drawing. I even got a $0 paycheck one time and I worked there.


*The $0 paycheck was due to a glitch in the TLA system at DFAS. When I looked up my pay and saw it was zero I was pissed. I called DFAS right away. About 1,000 other people had the same issue and because I caught it in time they fixed everyone's pay all at the same time by running a mass update. (Yes, I took credit for making that phone call on my EPR)

SomeRandomGuy
09-19-2013, 02:33 PM
I don't usually play one-up with stories but my ex-girlfriend is married to a guy who went about 18 months without a steady paycheck. He came in from the Army and something got severely messed up along the way. His entire chain of command up to the wing totally failed him when he asked for help. Finally she called me and asked for advice. I told her to document the hell of everything that has happened up to that point, who they had spoken to, what was said and to get signatures to what was said if possible. Take it straight to the wing CC and explain that the next step is the IG if it doesn't get fixed. Two months later, still nothing. Even the IG didn't seem to be taking action, I mean not even a peep was heard from them. So I told them to send copies of their documentation to the chain of command right up to the SECAF or higher and see what happens.

A few days later all Hell broke loose. CSAF, SECAF, MAJCOMCC and everyone on down the chain was getting their asses chewed off. They had sent the paperwork right up to the SECDEF and also to their senators and congressman. You can bet his pay problems got fixed really fast at that point. His boss was highly pissed that he went so far outside the chain of command but what else was he supposed to do? A year and a half of getting partial pay? The guy had to do something. It's the only time I've ever heard of the IG failing to take action on something or of a chain of command failing so miserably to fix something so trivial.

This actually happens a lot more than you think. The normal process for getting your pay started is that you come through basic training at Lackland. They start everyone as an AB with 0 days service. Other updates are made along the the way but the pay between AB and A1C isn't really much different so no one really complains (how could you during basic?). If you come in to the AF through a different channel (ROTC, Prior Service, AF Academy, Reserve/Guard, Etc) you are completely reliant on your finance and personnel people to send documentation that you are not an E1 or O1. Otherwise that is what you start off with. I saw a TSgt come on to active duty and get paid as an AB for almost 6 months one time.

Pullinteeth
09-19-2013, 02:33 PM
His boss was highly pissed that he went so far outside the chain of command but what else was he supposed to do? A year and a half of getting partial pay? The guy had to do something. It's the only time I've ever heard of the IG failing to take action on something or of a chain of command failing so miserably to fix something so trivial.

Two things...One, he didn't go outside the chain of command-anyone in BMT can tell you that the SecDef is in the chain of command-just not at a level that one would expect someone to reach. Secondly, IG is Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. I have heard/seen them basically tell people that they shouldn't file a complaint because it would go to their CC and once they file it, they can't take it back. For valid issues that should have been an easy fix....

Bumble78
09-19-2013, 02:44 PM
So we need to make sure everyone in the Air Force talks about finance at the first official Roll Call.

sandsjames
09-19-2013, 02:46 PM
Never had a "roll call" until I got into a Comm/Intel unit. Not surprising, though, as everything those guys do is like they're working on a flightline.

AF Comm Guy
09-19-2013, 02:54 PM
This actually happens a lot more than you think. The normal process for getting your pay started is that you come through basic training at Lackland. They start everyone as an AB with 0 days service. Other updates are made along the the way but the pay between AB and A1C isn't really much different so no one really complains (how could you during basic?). If you come in to the AF through a different channel (ROTC, Prior Service, AF Academy, Reserve/Guard, Etc) you are completely reliant on your finance and personnel people to send documentation that you are not an E1 or O1. Otherwise that is what you start off with. I saw a TSgt come on to active duty and get paid as an AB for almost 6 months one time.

Ahhh, so it wasn't an isolated incident. I think he was E-5 when he switched over to AF. That's usually a hard direction to go but he was an MP and went into Security Forces, which they were desperate for, so he was allowed to come over. It was right after PCIII was put into service and that was the excuse that Finance kept giving him every time he asked if there had been progress. Personally, I think he did the right thing but waited too long to do it.

Some time after the big dust up happened they got a phone call at home from his senator...John McCain. It wan't some assistant either but the man himself. His wife was the one who answered and he was asking if the problem got fixed. She said it appeared so and he told her that if there are anymore problems to just give his office a call. To say that call came as a bit of a shock would be an understatement.

AF Comm Guy
09-19-2013, 03:01 PM
Two things...One, he didn't go outside the chain of command-anyone in BMT can tell you that the SecDef is in the chain of command-just not at a level that one would expect someone to reach. Secondly, IG is Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. I have heard/seen them basically tell people that they shouldn't file a complaint because it would go to their CC and once they file it, they can't take it back. For valid issues that should have been an easy fix....

I stand corrected on your first point. Yes, he didn't go OUTSIDE the chain, he JUMPED the chain but was fully justified in doing so.

BENDER56
09-19-2013, 05:25 PM
Pffft. Who needs roll calls? It's the 21st century. Use email like everyone else. Hell, you never even have to leave your office anymore to be a Great Communicator.

USMC0341
09-19-2013, 05:46 PM
I remember reading a story in the 80s about a Marine who did not get paid for his entire enlistment.

He did not realize he was supposed to. He got a dorm room and meal card...his Mom sent him some allowance. He could never figure out how his buddies had money to do all the stuff they were doing.

When he was separating at ETS, they figured out he hadn't gotten paid and he got six figures in back pay.

Unfortunately, I have ecnountered some who I would not be surprised one bit if this were the case. You don't need to be too smart to carry a pack and shoot shit.

OtisRNeedleman
09-19-2013, 07:55 PM
Once out of Lackland, never had another roll call. Kind of hard to do a roll call on a SIGINT operations floor during daily operations - would have to do it after the shift. In staff jobs, roll call would likely be a quick gathering around the coffee bar/water cooler.

OtisRNeedleman
09-19-2013, 07:56 PM
I remember reading a story in the 80s about a Marine who did not get paid for his entire enlistment.

He did not realize he was supposed to. He got a dorm room and meal card...his Mom sent him some allowance. He could never figure out how his buddies had money to do all the stuff they were doing.

When he was separating at ETS, they figured out he hadn't gotten paid and he got six figures in back pay.

But how would he have ever been able to take leave? Need some version of an LES to document leave balance.

Juggs
09-19-2013, 08:49 PM
Air Force Times:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130918/NEWS/309180022/Air-Force-s-top-enlisted-Roll-call-back

Color me out of touch, but being a F/L guy we've always held roll calls for all three shifts. Do other org's not do this daily???

TACPs dont usually do that. Well on Mondays we had formation PT and did the whole fall in thing. Thats it though, then it was flight and section PT, but never did a roll call.

BENDER56
09-19-2013, 08:54 PM
This actually happens a lot more than you think. The normal process for getting your pay started is that you come through basic training at Lackland. They start everyone as an AB with 0 days service. Other updates are made along the the way but the pay between AB and A1C isn't really much different so no one really complains (how could you during basic?). If you come in to the AF through a different channel (ROTC, Prior Service, AF Academy, Reserve/Guard, Etc) you are completely reliant on your finance and personnel people to send documentation that you are not an E1 or O1. Otherwise that is what you start off with. I saw a TSgt come on to active duty and get paid as an AB for almost 6 months one time.

Huh. That reminds me off a story I had forgotten about. I was the 1st Sgt for an SF flight at Indian Springs, and this guy just fell out of the sky and showed up at our HQ in civvies. He had what looked like real orders assigning him to our unit as a CATM troop and nothing else. So I sat him down to find out WTF.

Turns out he was prior-Marine, did his time and was honorably discharged. Wound up working at WalMart for a couple of years and missed the military. He told me when he was a Marine, if he ever complained about anything the standard answer he got was, "Well if you don't like it you should have joined the Air Force." So he went to an AF recruiter. Maybe it was the end of the recruiting year and this recruiter needed to up his quota, like now, but for whatever reason this guy got fast-tracked. Not only did they waive BMT for him (he didn't even go and proficiency advance -- he just didn't go at all) but they said his job in the Marines (armorer) equated with our CATM position (not even close) and they waived tech school! He went from his recruiter's office to us.

I swear I'm not making this up. The guy didn't have a single uniform item (fortunately, we wore DCUs at the time and our logistics guys hooked him up with those.) I started outlining the things he would have to do to inprocess, but I might as well have been speaking Greek to him 'cause he didn't know the AF's terms for stuff.

We wound up verifying that he really was in the AF and got him a tech school slot and he turned out to be a good troop. But all the other guys in the unit called him "the OSI guy" the whole time he was assigned with us.

sharkhunter
09-19-2013, 09:59 PM
Are shop meetings and morning meetings considered roll calls? If so, we do this almost every day.

UH1FE
09-19-2013, 11:16 PM
Nice! I had roll call regularly in the early 2000's so this 1950 crap is straight up BS. May be if we had a Chief as the CMSAF instead of an E-9 manager he would know that this has been done up until very recently.

retiredAFcivvy
09-20-2013, 03:57 AM
For some reason I thought this was an ACC initiative back in early to mid 2000s.

LogDog
09-20-2013, 04:37 AM
Huh. That reminds me off a story I had forgotten about. I was the 1st Sgt for an SF flight at Indian Springs, and this guy just fell out of the sky and showed up at our HQ in civvies. He had what looked like real orders assigning him to our unit as a CATM troop and nothing else. So I sat him down to find out WTF.

Turns out he was prior-Marine, did his time and was honorably discharged. Wound up working at WalMart for a couple of years and missed the military. He told me when he was a Marine, if he ever complained about anything the standard answer he got was, "Well if you don't like it you should have joined the Air Force." So he went to an AF recruiter. Maybe it was the end of the recruiting year and this recruiter needed to up his quota, like now, but for whatever reason this guy got fast-tracked. Not only did they waive BMT for him (he didn't even go and proficiency advance -- he just didn't go at all) but they said his job in the Marines (armorer) equated with our CATM position (not even close) and they waived tech school! He went from his recruiter's office to us.

I swear I'm not making this up. The guy didn't have a single uniform item (fortunately, we wore DCUs at the time and our logistics guys hooked him up with those.) I started outlining the things he would have to do to inprocess, but I might as well have been speaking Greek to him 'cause he didn't know the AF's terms for stuff.

We wound up verifying that he really was in the AF and got him a tech school slot and he turned out to be a good troop. But all the other guys in the unit called him "the OSI guy" the whole time he was assigned with us.
Late 70s, at Myrtle Beach AFB, SC, we had a freshly graduated veterinarian report to base. He was in civies, long hair and a beard. His orders told him to report directly to the base instead of attending the 2-week, mini-officer course at Sheppard AFB. He reported directly to the Wing Commander's office and the proverbial fecal material rolled downhill to the medical squadron. They got him uniforms, an AF haircut and shave, and made him presentable. He got orders shortly thereafter to attend the mini-officer course.

LogDog
09-20-2013, 04:40 AM
I can see a Roll Call within a large flight or at squadron/group/wing level but if you're in a flight with about 12 people and they work close by then why the need for a Roll Call? A decent NCOIC or OIC will know who is there and who isn't. Most likely they'll be having weekly meetings with the flight which serves the same purpose as the Roll Call.

loggie94
09-20-2013, 08:35 AM
Yep, different even, same speech. AF was even putting out "Roll Call" notes a few years back..'05ish. Weekly, if memory serves me correctly (not that it usually does).

He's got a point...nothing beats face-to-face communication. A reminder to lead the right way from his level is appropriate..... But mandating it from his level seems pretty silly.

Chief_KO
09-20-2013, 12:04 PM
Back in the day we started every morning with a shop meeting. Go over the days priorities, folks would announce if they had appointments that day, etc. There was a "read & sign" clipboard that had notes, daily announcement etc. that had to be initialed off.

Once everyone got email, human interaction went awry (for the most part). Folks auto-delete, or don't read or even check their email yet are first to complain when they didn't get the word.

No need to stand in formation & have open ranks & reporting statements but yes, there is a need to communicate.

Pullinteeth
09-20-2013, 12:39 PM
Huh. That reminds me off a story I had forgotten about. I was the 1st Sgt for an SF flight at Indian Springs, and this guy just fell out of the sky and showed up at our HQ in civvies. He had what looked like real orders assigning him to our unit as a CATM troop and nothing else. So I sat him down to find out WTF.

Turns out he was prior-Marine, did his time and was honorably discharged. Wound up working at WalMart for a couple of years and missed the military. He told me when he was a Marine, if he ever complained about anything the standard answer he got was, "Well if you don't like it you should have joined the Air Force." So he went to an AF recruiter. Maybe it was the end of the recruiting year and this recruiter needed to up his quota, like now, but for whatever reason this guy got fast-tracked. Not only did they waive BMT for him (he didn't even go and proficiency advance -- he just didn't go at all) but they said his job in the Marines (armorer) equated with our CATM position (not even close) and they waived tech school! He went from his recruiter's office to us.

I swear I'm not making this up. The guy didn't have a single uniform item (fortunately, we wore DCUs at the time and our logistics guys hooked him up with those.) I started outlining the things he would have to do to inprocess, but I might as well have been speaking Greek to him 'cause he didn't know the AF's terms for stuff.

We wound up verifying that he really was in the AF and got him a tech school slot and he turned out to be a good troop. But all the other guys in the unit called him "the OSI guy" the whole time he was assigned with us.

Other way around. They get their PS quotas at the beginning of the FY not the end (usually). They didn't "waive BMT" he had already completed a recognized Basic Military Training. Only the USMC makes PS folks go through Basic again-the Army USED to until the Blue-to-Green progam. "They" didn't say shit about his MOS. YOUR functional manager did. They are the ones that have the input into your particular section of the AFECD. If they weren't paying attention, it is THEIR fault not the recruitier/LINCO's fault.

A perfect example is the medical career fields. The Army changes their MOS' like chicks change shoes and the medical folks didn't keep up so the AFECD currently says that mechanics transfer to medical-no training required.

They didn't waive tech school, according to your functional, his MOS converted, no training required (when applicable, the MOS/rate converts as a 3-level). While he should have had BDUs, that would be the only uniform items he would have had that he COULD have worn and he couldn't wear those because he would have the wrong hat.

I find it hard to believe that you got him tech school dates when your functional said it wasn't required.

Chief_KO
09-21-2013, 03:01 AM
A training manager (not a unit training manager, but the AFSC training manager at the schoolhouse) can get some folks into 3-level schools. It is tough and the TM has to put his neck on the chopping block but I did see it once when I was an instructor

BadBender
09-21-2013, 05:02 AM
Back in 2002-3 at Langley AFB (1stCES) we had daily shop roll calls. It wasn’t too bad. Mostly the NCOIC would let us know what was coming down the pipe. When he was done anyone else that wanted to say something did and it was onwards to work. Now years later and two assignments past, I have a weekly shop safety meeting. After the safety part we bring up anything that needs to be brought up. This seems to work for us. I see my guys everyday so normally there isn’t allot to add. I agree that more communication is better.

RetC141BFCC
09-21-2013, 03:41 PM
Back in 2002-3 at Langley AFB (1stCES) we had daily shop roll calls. It wasn’t too bad. Mostly the NCOIC would let us know what was coming down the pipe. When he was done anyone else that wanted to say something did and it was onwards to work. Now years later and two assignments past, I have a weekly shop safety meeting. After the safety part we bring up anything that needs to be brought up. This seems to work for us. I see my guys everyday so normally there isn’t allot to add. I agree that more communication is better.

As someone who either stood roll call or called roll call my entire AF carrier I understand the need for it. As usual the AF has taken it way too far. In the MX world or Security world where there are lots of folks on shift and lots of different things it makes sense. In a small office it does not. If you are assigned to an office with 5 people its better just to sit down together once or twice a week and discuss what’s going on. In maintenance the smallest shift I ever worked on had at least 15 on shift and the largest had over 50 including ARTS.
Even the ARTS stood roll call every day. They did not stand at attention but they fell in the back so they could get the daily information that affected them also.
I think the AF is screwing up here. The shops that need roll call have them the shops that don not should not be mandated to have them.
The main reason for Roll Call besides handing out daily work assignments was to make sure everyone was at work or I knew where they were. Did Johnny make it back from his weekend trip to NY? Or is Sue still drunk and hung over in her room. When you have a shit load of young A1Cs and SRA you need to make sure they are taking care of uniforms look right and they don’t need a haircut. They will get you in trouble in a heartbeat.
Now in my post AF job we don’t have roll call but something similar we get together at the beginning of shift and pass out the work assignments. Night shift the largest shift at most Airline maintenance bases has almost a formal roll call without standing at attention same reason. So you can see in my rambling it does make sense for some sections but not others. Let the NCOIC decide what he or she needs that what the AF is paying them for to make decisions.
OK Rant over

OtisRNeedleman
09-22-2013, 03:21 AM
As someone who either stood roll call or called roll call my entire AF carrier I understand the need for it. As usual the AF has taken it way too far. In the MX world or Security world where there are lots of folks on shift and lots of different things it makes sense. In a small office it does not. If you are assigned to an office with 5 people its better just to sit down together once or twice a week and discuss what’s going on. In maintenance the smallest shift I ever worked on had at least 15 on shift and the largest had over 50 including ARTS.
Even the ARTS stood roll call every day. They did not stand at attention but they fell in the back so they could get the daily information that affected them also.
I think the AF is screwing up here. The shops that need roll call have them the shops that don not should not be mandated to have them.
The main reason for Roll Call besides handing out daily work assignments was to make sure everyone was at work or I knew where they were. Did Johnny make it back from his weekend trip to NY? Or is Sue still drunk and hung over in her room. When you have a shit load of young A1Cs and SRA you need to make sure they are taking care of uniforms look right and they don’t need a haircut. They will get you in trouble in a heartbeat.
Now in my post AF job we don’t have roll call but something similar we get together at the beginning of shift and pass out the work assignments. Night shift the largest shift at most Airline maintenance bases has almost a formal roll call without standing at attention same reason. So you can see in my rambling it does make sense for some sections but not others. Let the NCOIC decide what he or she needs that what the AF is paying them for to make decisions.
OK Rant over

Indeed. In most staff-type jobs roll call is ludicrous. You can look around the office and see who's there and who's gone. Heck, with the TDY schedules people in my office at Randolph had am hard-pressed to think of a single time we had everyone in the office at once. Someone was always TDY, out, on leave, or whatever. About all you can do is a quick gathering in the office, or maybe in the division chief's office. But when you're talking staff work, you're pretty much talking SNCOs and officers, big boys and girls, if you would. They don't need that constant watching-over. In most staff environments, "roll call" will be the exception rather than the rule, except maybe a periodic "roll call" at the bowling alley or at a restaurant downtown over lunch.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-22-2013, 02:36 PM
Roll Call??? Haven't seen or heard a thing about it...no official messages have been sent to us yet.

Deploy Me Please
09-22-2013, 06:46 PM
Yea, this whole thing kind of confused me. I think that "Roll Call" is the title of a weekly message put out by HAF with topics to be discussed at roll calls (if you have them). Kinda like the list of CC call topics that are distributed. The most recent topic of the periodical named "Roll Call" was...the fact that we should be having more roll calls. I don't think there are any mandatory roll call initiatives.

BENDER56
09-24-2013, 07:52 PM
Other way around. They get their PS quotas at the beginning of the FY not the end (usually). They didn't "waive BMT" he had already completed a recognized Basic Military Training. Only the USMC makes PS folks go through Basic again-the Army USED to until the Blue-to-Green progam. "They" didn't say shit about his MOS. YOUR functional manager did. They are the ones that have the input into your particular section of the AFECD. If they weren't paying attention, it is THEIR fault not the recruitier/LINCO's fault.

A perfect example is the medical career fields. The Army changes their MOS' like chicks change shoes and the medical folks didn't keep up so the AFECD currently says that mechanics transfer to medical-no training required.

They didn't waive tech school, according to your functional, his MOS converted, no training required (when applicable, the MOS/rate converts as a 3-level). While he should have had BDUs, that would be the only uniform items he would have had that he COULD have worn and he couldn't wear those because he would have the wrong hat.

I find it hard to believe that you got him tech school dates when your functional said it wasn't required.

All comments about quotas were unimportant suppositions on my part for the sake of the narrative, but now that I know all about them ... well, I really don't care.

Call it what you want, but PS recruits used to go through a proficiency-advanced version of AF BMT, so they "waived" that.

I also don't really care who screwed up the tech school thing, the recruiter or the functional. In fact, now that I re-read what I wrote, I really didn't say who it was, I just said "they" waived such-and-such. Although I can understand that most readers would infer I was talking about the recruiter. Our superintendent wound up taking the reins with this issue so I didn't worry about it after that.

Anyway, yes, this guy showed up without having gone through AF tech training and we wound up sending him to AF tech training.

When you figure out whose screw-up that was, let me know, cause I'm sitting here on pins and needles waiting to find out.

stephenlosey
09-25-2013, 06:36 PM
Have any of you started attending roll call meetings in the week or so since Chief Cody announced its return? If so, Air Force Times would like to find out what you think about it. What kind of things were discussed, how was it structured, and was it worth your time? You can e-mail me at slosey@airforcetimes.com.

jshiver15
09-27-2013, 04:38 PM
In the weather career field we didn't have "roll calls", but we had a morning meteorological conference (METCON), in which everyone on duty that day would attend. Everyone would be briefed on the current weather situation, and lay out plans for the day in case the weather was supposed to suck and extra bodies were needed.

We do that at our det, but when other folks visit and see us doing it, they act like they've landed on another planet. However, we did integrate a Roll Call into our MetCon for the first time the other day.

Capt Alfredo
09-28-2013, 12:24 AM
I do Roll Call every morning.

I Roll outta bed about 8:30 and Call out to my wife in the kitchen to make me breakfast.

And then when she doesn't, you eat a pre-made cinnamon roll, right?

imported_DannyJ
09-28-2013, 01:31 AM
If by pre-made cinnamon roll you mean hot sex with two bikini models, then no.

Is there any other kind of pre-made cinnamon roll?

WeaponsTSGT
09-28-2013, 05:49 PM
Is there any other kind of pre-made cinnamon roll?

I guess I'm out of touch, I have had a roll call every work day for the past 18 years for every shift. Depending on the flight chief it also included open ranks on Mondays and the occasional bring your blues in to get inspected since we might wear them once a year.

Shadowless
10-02-2013, 08:34 AM
We do that at our det, but when other folks visit and see us doing it, they act like they've landed on another planet. However, we did integrate a Roll Call into our MetCon for the first time the other day.

That's really sweet, lovely Weather career field. Are they making all the shift workers come in on their days off to attend the roll call? Wouldn't surprise me...

jshiver15
10-03-2013, 12:16 PM
That's really sweet, lovely Weather career field. Are they making all the shift workers come in on their days off to attend the roll call? Wouldn't surprise me...

Nah, we're a small shop, so they don't make a big deal out of it.

raustin0017
10-03-2013, 02:08 PM
IMHO...Roll Calls should be designed not only for keeping the team on target but to put eyes on your Airmen. All supervisors should do this at a minimum weekly. You don't have to have a Formation to accomplish a Roll Call. Just check on your folks and see how they are doing and press on. Security Forces and MX folks do this daily and is part of their culture.

Pullinteeth
10-07-2013, 02:16 PM
Whew....it isn't a real roll call....just electronic...

http://www.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/rollcall/RollCall_Oct_Shutdown.pdf

imported_StandardsAMust
10-22-2013, 12:46 PM
Whew....it isn't a real roll call....just electronic...

http://www.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/rollcall/RollCall_Oct_Shutdown.pdf

You are absolutely right...I know of no unit that has changed any processes to accomodate the CMSAF's "roll call."

Rainmaker
10-31-2013, 07:23 PM
You are absolutely right...I know of no unit that has changed any processes to accomodate the CMSAF's "roll call."

Question for the board. Rainmaker been retarded a couple years now, so he outta the loop. but, Rainmaker been noticin a trend of Brothas with full beards and shavin bumps lately. Are NCOs allowed to make airman of color shave anymore or is the rule only apply to the White ones? All of them seemin to be under age 25 or so. Is they a shaving bumps epidemics? Do anybody check this at roll call? Do they teach this in basic anymore or is they too busy concentrating on more important things like trying to figure out what orientation errbody is and not rapin they co-workers?