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Measure Man
09-12-2013, 11:47 PM
.........

RS6405
09-13-2013, 12:45 AM
MM,

I respect your views on so many topics, even if we have a difference of opinion. Your state above is the exception.

I can agree that humans have sexual urges and feel compelled to act on them. However, I refuse to believe that a vow of celibacy causes pediphillia, which is about the sexual attraction of a pre-pubescent child. (& acting on that attraction).

sandsjames
09-13-2013, 12:49 AM
MM,

I respect your views on so many topics, even if we have a difference of opinion. Your state above is the exception.

I can agree that humans have sexual urges and feel compelled to act on them. However, I refuse to believe that a vow of celibacy causes pediphillia, which is about the sexual attraction of a pre-pubescent child. (& acting on that attraction).

Yeah, the two have nothing to do with each other. That's like saying that not drinking leads to robbing liquor stores.

Bunch
09-13-2013, 03:27 AM
MM,

I respect your views on so many topics, even if we have a difference of opinion. Your state above is the exception.

I can agree that humans have sexual urges and feel compelled to act on them. However, I refuse to believe that a vow of celibacy causes pediphillia, which is about the sexual attraction of a pre-pubescent child. (& acting on that attraction).

I agree with this.

There has been studies done on this by the vatican and independent observers and they show that pedophilia within priesthood is half the percentage that you see in the civilian population in the US. The problem during the pedophila scandal for the Church was the handling of the issue by some higher priest which was totally unjustifiable.

Where I grew up what I saw was a few preist giving up priesthood because they fell in love with some women but of course that doesn't make it to the news. I think it should be left to the priest to decide how they manage their servitude to God. This is not a new thing since priesthood comes in different "shapes and forms" already.IMO, adding non celibate priest to the Religious Order won't be something that will derail the mission of the Church much to the contrary it will add another perspective and much needed boost to the Church.

Rizzo77
09-13-2013, 04:35 AM
I was raised Catholic, but don't claim to be one anymore. I must admit, I dig this new Pope's style.


I was raised Catholic, and even as I'm retired now my dog tags still say Roman Catholic.

I may just return to the church with Pope Francis' direction. I believe that if a Priest is going to provide counseling (they do that), a married Priest would be better prepared to do so. If he gets rid of the whole birth control/abortion thing, I might be a Catholic again. Throw out the anti-gay thing, too, and I'll be back.

Bunch
09-13-2013, 04:43 AM
I was raised Catholic, and even as I'm retired now my dog tags still say Roman Catholic.

I may just return to the church with Pope Francis' direction. I believe that if a Priest is going to provide counseling (they do that), a married Priest would be better prepared to do so. If he gets rid of the whole birth control/abortion thing, I might be a Catholic again. Throw out the anti-gay thing, too, and I'll be back.

Yeah Pope Francis has me quite puzzled. Everything from his time in Argentina gave the impression that he was going to be very conservative in regards to controversial social issues but everything he has said since assuming the papacy has been very refreshing borderline progressive. So far I like the direction he is taking the Church.

TJMAC77SP
09-13-2013, 11:36 AM
MM,

I respect your views on so many topics, even if we have a difference of opinion. Your state above is the exception.

I can agree that humans have sexual urges and feel compelled to act on them. However, I refuse to believe that a vow of celibacy causes pediphillia, which is about the sexual attraction of a pre-pubescent child. (& acting on that attraction).

I have always thought that it is probably more a matter of the life attracting the type not causing the type. Maybe there are rare cases of the opposite but my feeling is it is just that, rare.

RS6405
09-13-2013, 12:18 PM
I have always thought that it is probably more a matter of the life attracting the type not causing the type. Maybe there are rare cases of the opposite but my feeling is it is just that, rare.

I agree with that. Just like some go out of their way to be in a position ( scout leaders, teachers, babysitter etc.) to be around plenty of children.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 01:42 PM
There has been studies done on this by the vatican and independent observers and they show that pedophilia within priesthood is half the percentage that you see in the civilian population in the US.

Very true. I'm atheist and not very fond of the Catholic Church, but pedophilia is actually a bigger problem among protestant churches... but the media doesn't report it nearly has much. Many of us don't realize this... but the Anglosphere is VERY anti-Catholic compared to the rest of the world. The way we report pedophilia in the Catholic church seems, by design, an attempt to "take them down"

About a year ago, a Methodist pastor in my area was arrested and convicted of pedophilia. We've there are more Catholic churches here than Methodist churches, and I have yet to see a local Catholic priest get accused of molesting children.

And then there was Eddie Long, the Baptist pastor.

By the way, the Orthodox churches (Greek, Russian, etc) don't require their priests to be celibate, but most actually choose to be.

I don't think that pedophilia really has anything to do with the Catholic church reviewing their celibacy rule. The problem is that there's an extreme shortage of priests; because no one wants to be one. Presumably, because of the celibacy requirement.

sandsjames
09-13-2013, 02:59 PM
If you had nothing to drink, don't you think you'd rob a liquor store?








No, I'd go buy some. It's perfectly legal. If not drinking was a choice, but I really had the urge, then there are several ways to get it without breaking the law.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 03:04 PM
I still think unhealthy sexual repression can cause dysfunction.

Which can manifest itself in more ways than just one.


If you had nothing to drink, don't you think you'd rob a liquor store?

No, I'd buy a two-dollar bottle of Wild Irish Rose. And if I didn't have that, I'd loiter in front of the store and beg for money.


Okay, so there are the stats. Allegations made against 4 percent of priests serving between 1950-2002. Well, 4 % might sound like a small number...and yes, that means 96% of priests are not molestors...until you think about it... let's see, that would mean that in my squadron of 300 people, 12 peoople were accused of child molestation. That would be a scandal of epic proportions....can anyone post stats of another population with that kind of accusation rate?

But how many of those accusations are credible? Probably most of those accusations are a result of people panicking, because of the reputation that priests are stuck with.

sandsjames
09-13-2013, 03:16 PM
Right...duh.

But, the Catholic Church prohibits priests from having normal sexual relations... I'm no expert, but I'm sure they also prohibit sex with children

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 03:20 PM
Right...duh.

But, the Catholic Church prohibits priests from having normal sexual relations...

And I'm sure you're referring to drinking alcohol...which is NOT a human need, generally, unless someone is chemically dependent. If you weren't allowed to drink water, for instance, and you tried to comply because you wanted to be a good priest...you'd probably break the law to get some water if it was the only way you could get it.

Sexual intimacy is a human need.

Okay, but there are ways for a priest to get sex without breaking law. Why not find a girlfriend who lives in a town 20 miles away, where no one knows who he is?

Even if he bought a prostitute, the most that would happen is a misedemeanor charge. Sure, his face would be in the paper and the Catholic Church would know about it - but that's the same thing if he molested a boy. But at least he doesn't have a felony, and he'd have the piece of mind knowing that what he did (or was about to do) was with a consenting adult.

Lack of sex cannot be used to establish causation for pedophilia. There's just no way to do it.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 03:30 PM
...people don't always think rationally, especially when they are turned on.

Speak for yourself.

I, on the other hand, when feeling the need; will always look to adult women.


I disagree.

You're making the claim that it's a causatation. It's time for you to ante up a peer reviewed source that supports this claim.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 03:47 PM
Or at least explain why you disagree. I'm telling you that these priests do this, specifically because they're pedophiles.

By denying this, you are saying that they would have adult women (or men, if they're) gay; before resorting to children. This means that the priests in question would have to exhaust all efforts to have sex with a consenting adult before resorting to children.

I'm sorry, but there's too much consentual sex out there to be had with adults. Even if you have to resort to means that society deems undignified. You only mess with children because that's what you WANT to do.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 04:18 PM
"Although celibacy is not physically harmful, it may be destructive to a relationship if one partner makes a unilateral decision to stop sexual relations - whether due to illness, physical disability, interpersonal problems or sexual difficulties - thus imposing celibacy on the other partner. When life situations entail long-term deprivation of sex with a steady partner, an individual may turn to masturbation (selective or partial celibacy) or seek random partners for release of sexual tension," according to Dr. Domeena C. Renshaw, professor of psychiatry at the Loyola University of Chicago - Strich School of Medicine in the journal Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality.

"Celibacy may lead to psychological problems. Some celibates who say they have no difficulty with sexual suppression nonetheless develop symptoms such as irritability, insomnia, somatization, or clinical depression," Renshaw added.

No mention of pedophilia here.


A study published by the U.S. Conservative Policy Research organization showed that sexually abstinent teens were more likely to graduate from school, stay in college, and earn higher incomes. Social background factors were taken into consideration.

On the other hand, there have been studies that show repression of sexual desire leads to an overall level of aggression in society. Societies that forbid premarital sex have higher rates of crime and violence. Some suggest there may be a link between sexual repression and criminal behavior, aggression, and insensitivity.

None here, either.


Celibacy blocks sexual energy. Blocked energy does not know rules, customs, laws and beleifs. Energy must flow and it will find a way to flow. We either let energy flow the easy way, or it will find a way out the hard way. And so people who are celibating for long are just getting crazy and express (release) their blocked energy

Still don't see any.


Thank you for those Desmond Morris quotes. I think the same applies to pedophilia. Homosexuality and pedophilia are often treated as inherent tendencies that come out of the genetic makeup, rather than a response to conditions.

I knew many people in Mayapur who engaged in pedophiliac activity with Gurukula children. There were a few deliberate predators among them, but most were brahmacharis who found the loving intimacy of their relation with children a springboard to sexual relations, which may have started innocently enough.

I am personally not a strong believer in a celibate priesthood, as I have often stated elsewhere. (I made some comments in the Gayatri Mantra thread on Istagosthi.) There are a few "athletes of the spirit" who might engage in absolute chastity, but they are rare and must be very careful in their practice. For the most part, their lives should not be public until they have come to the point in the control of their sexuality that it is no longer an issue. And they should be ready to face the fact that that may never happen.

Ah, here's one. But, alas, he's stating an opinion just like you; and ignoring the fact that there are ALWAYS ways to engage in consentual sex with adults.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 04:27 PM
So, some of the above quotes hint on what I think as well.

Priest take a vow of celibacy...thus denying an outlet for their sexual energy. In the course of their work, they are close to, develop relationships with...children, among others. In a priests dealings with adults...adults are not vulnerable...adults have an expectation of priests and can more easily hold priests accountable...priests feel more accountable to adults. The children are vulnerable...can not hold a priest accountable necessarily (more so today, of course). I'm not sure most of these priests seek out children for sex..."it just happens", you know what I mean? :-)

Still doesn't work. The priest can seek sex with consenting adults outside of the members in his parish - hell, he could probably have sex with an adult IN his parish if he wanted to. I'm sure there's a scandalous bitch or two in his congregation who would LOVE to break a priest's vow of celibacy.

Bunch
09-13-2013, 05:10 PM
I still think unhealthy sexual repression can cause dysfunction.



If you had nothing to drink, don't you think you'd rob a liquor store?





I would say, that is possible...but going to seminary for 6 years and going through all of that sure seems like a long way around to get access to children



Okay, so there are the stats. Allegations made against 4 percent of priests serving between 1950-2002. Well, 4 % might sound like a small number...and yes, that means 96% of priests are not molestors...until you think about it... let's see, that would mean that in my squadron of 300 people, 12 peoople were accused of child molestation. That would be a scandal of epic proportions....can anyone post stats of another population with that kind of accusation rate?

There is this

According to Dr. Fred Berlin, a Johns Hopkins University professor who founded the National Institute for the Study, Prevention and Treatment of Sexual Trauma in Baltimore, Md., pedophilia is a distinct sexual orientation marked by persistent, sometimes exclusive, attraction to prepubescent children. Dr. John Bradford, a University of Ottawa psychiatrist who has spent 23 years studying pedophilia--which is listed as an illness in the manual psychiatrists use to make diagnoses--estimates its prevalence at maybe 4% of the population. (Those attracted to teenagers are sometimes said to suffer "ephebophilia," but perhaps because so many youth-obsessed Americans would qualify, psychiatrists don't classify ephebophilia as an illness.)

So for priest is 4% and experts say is 4% for the entire population so it is consistent not out of the norm.

Then there is this:


Lack of media and official discussion

A comparison of the attention given US public school cases to allegations involving Catholic priests reveals almost no equivalent official or media coverage, and a lack of public statements regarding the extent of the threat facing U. S. public school students.

According to a report in The Tidings, the newspaper for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, when Shakeshaft looked into the problem, the first thing that came to her mind were the daily headlines about the Catholic Church.
“[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?” she said. “The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.”

So, in order to better protect children, did media outlets start hounding the worse menace of the school systems, with headlines about a “Nationwide Teacher Molestation Cover-up” and by asking “Are Ed Schools Producing Pedophiles?”

No, they didn’t. That treatment was reserved for the Catholic Church, while the greater problem in the schools was ignored altogether

Many of the teachers accused of child sexual abuse are married, have families and kids of their own. They don't follow a celibate lifestyle and they still show a pedophile orientation. So the link you trying to make between celibacy and pedophilia is just not supported by facts, if that was the case you will have a higher number of priest been child molester and the facts just don't support that.

TJMAC77SP
09-13-2013, 05:17 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-6389019.html

"The Vatican's second-highest authority says the sex scandals
haunting the Roman Catholic Church are linked to homosexuality
and not celibacy among priests."

Wrong thinking......dated. I suppose the changes we think might be coming will be slow

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 05:19 PM
I'd go crazy...some nuns are hot!

Only in porn, Rated R movies, and raunchy sitcoms. In real life, nuns are fugly.

Pullinteeth
09-13-2013, 05:27 PM
Not to distract from you pedophelila conversation but...what I found particularly interesting....

But Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the Holy See’s press office, told NBC News the comments were "in line with the teachings of the church."

It's not clear when celibacy became mandatory for priests, HuffPost Religion notes, but the first written mandate for chastity dates to 304 C.E., when Canon 33 of the Council of Elvira stated that all "bishops, presbyters, and deacons and all other clerics" should "abstain completely from their wives and not to have children."

And "a definitive ruling was handed down at the Second Lateran Council of 1139, which ruled that priests were forbidden to marry."

Parolin's admitted question of priestly celibacy represents “a great challenge for the pope."

Currently I don't believe married priests are forbidden to have children so the first "rule" doesn't really apply. Priests may be forbidden to marry but there isn't any Biblical instruction for that to be the case. Maybe a way around this rule would be to only allow men to enter seminary if they are already married....then they will have an outlet and not break any church rules...

Bunch
09-13-2013, 05:28 PM
When they say, "the molestation is schools is likey 100 times higher"...are they saying the rate is 100 times higher...or the raw number is 100 times higher? Obviously, there are a lot more kids in school than there are that spend time with priests...even of kids that go to catholic church, not that many are actually alter boys or some other role where they are really spending time with the priest...I never did.

But you are missing the point that you are even making. The issue is not being celibate the issue is being a pedophile. I guess that if that 4% percent of priest had access to more children more children would have been molested but that wont increase the percentage of priest who are pedophiles. Liking prepubescent children is what causes child sexual abuse not a lifestyle decision made by one person.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 05:38 PM
Priests may be forbidden to marry but there isn't any Biblical instruction for that to be the case. Maybe a way around this rule would be to only allow men to enter seminary if they are already married....then they will have an outlet and not break any church rules...

The Bible only mentions deacons and bishops, and even states that bishops are required to have children... but...

Catholicism doesn't believe in sola scriptura; in fact, the first Christians to do so were the Waldensians of the late Middle Ages, and this were Protestants picked it up from.

sandsjames
09-13-2013, 05:40 PM
I am shocked by that statistic...but, remember the 4% of priests are the ones actually accused of molestation.





And the 4% of the public are also the ones actually accused of molestation.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 05:42 PM
Go without sex for a long while...you'll find some perverted stuff popping into your brain.

I lost my virginity at 13. Did not have sex again until I was 17. Did have sex after that until I was 19, when I started actually having sex "regularly."

Not ONCE has it ever entered my mind to have sex with anything other than human female that was my age.

sandsjames
09-13-2013, 05:46 PM
Where did you read that?

Ummm...I didn't read it...but common sense says that the stats they have are the ones who have been caught. Obviously, not 100% get caught, which means that there are more out there who aren't caught, which puts the number above 4%, just as it does with the Priests.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Catholic Church...I find so much wrong with it...but to assume the rate of priests not accused is any higher than the rate of the general public doesn't make sense.

Bunch
09-13-2013, 05:57 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-6389019.html

"The Vatican's second-highest authority says the sex scandals
haunting the Roman Catholic Church are linked to homosexuality
and not celibacy among priests."

Ohhhh of course Bertone... That's why he got kicked out of the Vatican when Pope Francis got in. Bertone is a an old school catholic douchbag of the highest order, glad his gone.


Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180).


Other
Approaches Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% of cases in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases (Jenny et al., 1994).
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

Bertone was just trying to say " Is not a church problem... Is a gay problem" to excuse the unjustifiable behaviour of letting child molester serve in the Church.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 06:52 PM
I've stated this earlier, but it seems to have fallen on blind eyes - much of the 4% of Catholic priests, if not most of it, can be attributed to panic; since priests are stuck with that reputation. You're more like to "see" signs of pedophilia that aren't even there among priests than anyone else, if you have it in your mind that priests are pedophiles; and, as such, you're more likely to report it.

Bunch
09-13-2013, 07:02 PM
Some more stats:


Population of the US, roughly 310,000,000.



Okay...so 400K registered sex offenders...0.12% of the population.

Yes, we can assume more are accused than are registered SO. Also, we can assume that a fair portion of the registered SO are not accused of crimes against children. Are incarcerated inmates registered???



Okay, so 234,000 are incarcerated on sex crimes...0.075% of the population.

Let's just say we add these two together, even though many are probably the same people...634,000. We are still at only 0.204% of the population that we know have been convicted of sex crimes...but, not necessarily against children.



Okay...so let's assume 70% of the 634,000 are against children...443,800...or 0.14% of the population having been convicted of sex crimes against children.

Okay, not all accused are convicted or even tried...but we're still pretty far from 4%

You do understand that child sexual abuse is one of the most under reported crimes not only in the US but in the world?

Mainly because the victim tends to be children and secondly but no less important because 90% of child sexual abuse occurs within the immediate family circle.

Bunch
09-13-2013, 07:12 PM
Yes, I do understand that...

Sooo...if 4% of priests HAVE BEEN REPORTED...how many would you guess have actually occurred?? Much Higher right?

Not necessarily because I won't consider the priest to be part of that "immediate family circle". Priest cases fall into those that were actually reported and if you go back to the scandal that was the issue, cases being reported but nothing was being done.

You keep trying to these tricks with numbers and with numbers you can really show whatever you want really so I'm no going to argue your assumptions. The data is there from the Vatican and from experts that have been studying pedophilia for decades and their conclusions don't support the link that you are trying to make between celibacy and child sexual abuse and that's all I got I say.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 07:13 PM
I believe the 4% is based on substantiated allegations...there were ANOTHER 4% or so that were unsubstantiated.

again, this is INTERNAL church documents reporting these stats...

I do think that the accuse-rate of priests is probably higher now than the general population...

You also have to consider the fact that accusation rates will be lower in the general population, resulting in far less convictions... since, when a priests molests and alterboy, he's molesting someone that he's going to have continuous contact with - someone whose parents are coming to mass every Sunday.

Whereas, on the outside, a pedophile can victimize a child and never be seen again.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 07:19 PM
The vast majority of child molestations the victim is known to the molestor.

What percentage, exactly, do they mean by "majority"? 50.0000001%?

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 07:30 PM
I'm sorry, but one thing that we lost focus on... is the easy access to sex with consenting adult. ANY sex that a priest has is going to against the rules as a priest. And, if the priest is not truly not attracted to children, he's going to exhaust all efforts to have sex with consenting adult.

It's my understanding that a priest's salary is comparable to that of a dentist - AND they get free housing in the parish's rectory on top of that.

With that kind of cash, priest could easily buy himself a five-woman lesbian orgy that he can jump into.

Why is he going to molest a boy, if an adult woman is what he wants; and BOTH are violations of the rules anyway?

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 07:44 PM
Not losing that point...I don't think the priest sits at home and says..."I'm gonna go molest a boy, where's that phone number...."

...he finds himself in a setting, alone, with a child...and things proceed beyond what his rational thought probably wants them to..."it just happened"

Okay, but how often does this happen when you're alone with a woman? The majority of the sex I've had was a result of this.

Are you telling me that priests don't have this SAME opportunity?

Bunch
09-13-2013, 07:47 PM
It's my understanding that a priest's salary is comparable to that of a dentist - AND they get free housing in the parish's rectory on top of that.

With that kind of cash, priest could easily buy himself a five-woman lesbian orgy that he can jump into.

Why is he going to molest a boy, if an adult woman is what he wants; and BOTH are violations of the rules anyway?

As a matter of correction... Only clerical/diocesans priest get a salary... Which it also raises an interesting question? What's the rate of clerical/diocesans priest accused of child sexual abuse compared to those from other religious orders like Friars, Monks and Canons. I bet the majority of the cases reported will fall on the Clerical/Diocesan orders. Which begs the questions again... Is it pedophilia? Is it celibacy? A combination of pedophile and access to children will be my best guess.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 07:47 PM
I also think that the percentage of the perpetrators knowing their victims can only be assessed through reported cases; in which case, the "reportability" factor comes into play.

In other words, people are less likely to report something if they feel that they can't provide enough information to result in an arrest.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 09:31 PM
...not sure if they have the same opportunity or not...but I'm saying their alone time with adults might be less likely to result in sex because they know that the other person has an expectation of their celibacy, and they are more likely to be called to account.

You're only looking "on duty" interactions with adults. Priests DO go out in town in "civvies" when they're "off duty." The guy sitting next to you at your local sports bar could be a priest, and you wouldn't know it unless he told you.

Even on duty, would you agree that there are plenty of women out there that see priests as a "challenge" that they'd like to tackle?

sandsjames
09-13-2013, 09:55 PM
I don't know...


So...what you're really trying to say is you don't think the Vow of Celibacy has anything to do with any priest abusing children, right?

Right...well, that's what I'm saying. I cant' speak for Rusty.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 09:57 PM
I don't know...


So...what you're really trying to say is you don't think the Vow of Celibacy has anything to do with any priest abusing children, right?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Put yourself in a priest's shoes. What would YOU do if you had the urge to violate the vow?

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 10:13 PM
...it's not always that simple as to what a rational thought in the light of day might dictate

Why do you keep bringing up "rational thought" as if it's a requirement for a sex-deprived heterosexual non-pedophile male to seek sex from a woman?

You're retired military. Surely, you've seen the irrational things guys will do, just to sniff a woman's panties.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 10:45 PM
LOL...exactly. You are the one saying, rationally, he would just go seek sex from a prositute or adult female...

No I didn't. I said nothing of a priest thinking "rationally."


I'm the one saying...repressed sexuality just might be expressed in an irrational way.

Okay, I'm a heterosexual male. If I'm going without sex, you know what the #1 thing on my mind is going to be? A vagina. A nice big, pink, warm, wet, fragrant, tasty VAGINA. And it will STAY on my mind until I get it. No rational thinking required. The only thing I'll do with a little boy that will land me in prison, due to sex deprivation, is kick him like a football if he gets in my way when I'm trying to get to that VAGINA.

Do you see any rationality in that? I sure as hell don't.

RobotChicken
09-14-2013, 10:22 PM
:spy "Now if they only put this amount of energy into the worlds largest prison system problem of sexual assaults...."(that they do in protecting children)

UncaRastus
09-15-2013, 02:17 AM
In Kansas, the age of consent is 15, Tak.

RobotChicken
09-15-2013, 02:56 AM
:spy
I got a 14 year old, in my opinion that's just way too young.
In basic training I met some dudes from the South who had
Wife's that young and kids already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zavhRryZuFA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

:spy "Lived in 'Kansas'; and saw first hand the result of it..."

UncaRastus
09-15-2013, 02:59 AM
I think that marriage before the human brain has completed forming into the adult brain is a bad thing. That happens in the mid 20s. However, what is someone to do with a child like person that is in their 40s?

Since this is a little off subject, I guess I must state that there is the Catholic Church that swept the pedophiles under the rug, while 'agonizing' over the molestation charges against the priests. What I wonder is how many of the pedopriests were themselves molested by a priest while they were children?

Also, there are links that can be found about Carmelite nuns having been raped by priests. I suppose that when there were females that could be used against their will, and any news of those rapes being suppressed by the CC, not to mention consensual sex with some of the nuns that needed no suppression, in the area that this was done may have been a far less molestation rate of the children.

Or maybe the rate of molestation was the same, or higher. Those figures were not to be found back when I checked on rapes being conducted on some of the Carmelite nuns.

It's a sad state of affairs when men trusted with children do these things.

Also, if the priests confessed their rapes or molestations to other priests, in the confessional, not only are the priests themselves guilty of such things, but the priests that take their confessions would probably have to report such things to higher authorites. If they do have to do that (not so sure on the privacy of the confessions, amongst priests), then there is a huge amount of priests that knew or know of what has happened, or is happening.

The RCC can claim that they are taking care of business, and it's none of the outside worlds business. However, if they think that the entire world is happy with that stance, I do believe that the RCC will have to deal with public outcry, sooner, rather than later.

I am not Catholic. I really don't know the finer points in ideology of the RCC. What I do think is that a certain amount of 'self guarding' has come into existence to protect priests, and that other members of that church 'enjoy' some of those 'benefits.' Such as the privacy of the confessions.

What I also believe is that if someone does a felony, then gets absolved of the 'sin of the crime,' then I think that the public authorities should be notified.

Murder, rape, and child molestation, especially.

As I said, I am not an RC. That may very well shock any of the RCC members, as to what I said.

Also the same thing should extend to all members of any church, worldwide.

The person may have been washed free of their sins before God, but just like a person on death row getting their sins absolved, it doesn't mean that they don't have to be punished.

That is my 2 cents worth.

Pullinteeth
09-16-2013, 01:52 PM
I'm sorry, but one thing that we lost focus on... is the easy access to sex with consenting adult. ANY sex that a priest has is going to against the rules as a priest. And, if the priest is not truly not attracted to children, he's going to exhaust all efforts to have sex with consenting adult.

Not if the priest is married.

Rusty Jones
09-16-2013, 03:50 PM
What I also believe is that if someone does a felony, then gets absolved of the 'sin of the crime,' then I think that the public authorities should be notified.

Murder, rape, and child molestation, especially.

As I said, I am not an RC. That may very well shock any of the RCC members, as to what I said.

Also the same thing should extend to all members of any church, worldwide.

The person may have been washed free of their sins before God, but just like a person on death row getting their sins absolved, it doesn't mean that they don't have to be punished.

That is my 2 cents worth.

I do know that the confession itself isn't the sacrament; it's the penance. In other words, the priest may tell you that your absolved, but that's conditional based on completion of the task that was given to you by your priest.

I had a friend once, who had to volunteer a certain amount of hours at the local SPCA when he confessed to kicking his dog out of anger.

Although I've never seen it, I imagine that if someone confesses a major crime - like murder or rape - that the priest will probably tell you to turn yourself in.


Not if the priest is married.

...yeah, one of those rare exceptions. It's not too often you see an Episcopalian/Anglican priest jumping ship.

TJMAC77SP
09-16-2013, 04:49 PM
I do know that the confession itself isn't the sacrament; it's the penance. In other words, the priest may tell you that your absolved, but that's conditional based on completion of the task that was given to you by your priest.

I had a friend once, who had to volunteer a certain amount of hours at the local SPCA when he confessed to kicking his dog out of anger.

Although I've never seen it, I imagine that if someone confesses a major crime - like murder or rape - that the priest will probably tell you to turn yourself in.



...yeah, one of those rare exceptions. It's not too often you see an Episcopalian/Anglican priest jumping ship.

Actually it is the confession (along with contrition, absolution by a priest and lastly the penance)

Rusty Jones
09-16-2013, 04:53 PM
Actually it is the confession (along with contrition, absolution by a priest and lastly the penance)

This link right here, straight from the Vatican, lists the sacrament as "penance."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2.htm

TJMAC77SP
09-16-2013, 05:01 PM
This link right here, straight from the Vatican, lists the sacrament as "penance."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2.htm

Yes the word "penance" is cited. That is the name of the four-part sacrament.

Further into the website you cited (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm) it explains it (in a fairly cumbersome manner I might add)

"1480 Like all the sacraments, Penance is a liturgical action. The elements of the celebration are ordinarily these: a greeting and blessing from the priest, reading the word of God to illuminate the conscience and elicit contrition, and an exhortation to repentance; the confession, which acknowledges sins and makes them known to the priest; the imposition and acceptance of a penance; the priest's absolution; a prayer of thanksgiving and praise and dismissal with the blessing of the priest."