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Measure Man
09-10-2013, 03:53 PM
............

Giant Voice
09-10-2013, 04:25 PM
Stuff like this starts at the top. From Brian Vickers being forced to pit, to the spine. MWR has lost what little cred it had left. This will change the face of NASCAR for next year. There will be some NFL type rules headed down the pipe. Just wait.

CYBERFX1024
09-10-2013, 04:27 PM
This is one of the reasons why I don't watch NASCAR anymore. I haven't really watched a full race since they started the chase bullshit.

sandsjames
09-10-2013, 05:01 PM
I think you're right...it will change things.

NASCAR's guiding principle needs to be "if you are on the track, you are racing for the best position, period." No shenanigans to help out other cars, be they teammates or not, will be tolerated. Fight your own battles.



The chase does keep things exciting...without the chase format, this season would basically have been over more than a month ago. It does change the dynamics quite a bit though. I'm not sure that it's any more bullshit than any other playoff though.

It was a pretty crappy move. On one hand, I think it calls for a serious suspension of many team members. On the other hand, is it really any different than crews from different teams being allowed to talk back and forth about "teaming up" when it comes to drafting, etc? To me that is legalized cheating. Of course they call it strategy, but to me it seems no different than fixing a race. Different teams should not be allowed to converse with each other about race strategy, before or during the race.

USMC0341
09-10-2013, 05:13 PM
What upsets me even more about this was the fact I had Clint on my fantasy race team this week. That A-hole cost me $130...

Absinthe Anecdote
09-10-2013, 06:29 PM
Disgraced the sport, his team, his sponsors with an intentional spin with 7 laps to go because the wrong guy was leading the race.

Throwing the race...ranks right up there with the Chicago Black Sox, IMO.

He should've been parked for the season, at least. He has severely damaged the integrity of the sport...and really just got a slap on the wrist.

Even Pete Rose never threw a game intentionally.

Serious question:

Isn't he just playing the villain like in professional wrestling?

All that NASCAR drama is scripted, right?

Just like Hulk Hogan was the "Nature Boy" and Dale Waltrip was "The Intimidator" it is all in the script at the beginning of the race, right?

It is all for fun so don't get upset, just enjoy the show.

Giant Voice
09-10-2013, 06:31 PM
The chase does keep things exciting...without the chase format, this season would basically have been over more than a month ago. It does change the dynamics quite a bit though. I'm not sure that it's any more bullshit than any other playoff though.

The only thing I don't like about the chase is the fact that non-chase drivers can still have a say in the outcome(crash a Chase guy out). If I were running it, there would be 2 races on Sunday...both 200 lap/mile sprints. One for the non-Chase guys so they can go nuts(and still get owner points), and one for the Chase guys(My chase setup would be top 15-18 drivers).

sandsjames
09-10-2013, 06:39 PM
Serious question:

Isn't he just playing the villain like in professional wrestling?

All that NASCAR drama is scripted, right?

Just like Hulk Hogan was the "Nature Boy" and Dale Waltrip was "The Intimidator" it is all in the script at the beginning of the race, right?

It is all for fun so don't get upset, just enjoy the show.

Hulk Hogan wasn't the "Nature Boy". Ric Flair was the "Nature Boy". Before that, Buddy Rogers was the "Nature Boy". At one point, for a short time, Buddy Landel was even the "Nature Boy".

AFcynic
09-10-2013, 06:49 PM
My question is this: Why do you consider NASCAR to be a sport?

What kind of athletic skill does it take to turn left all day?
How does one go to the gym to prepare for a race?

I'll give you the competition aspect of NASCAR. It's highly competitive, but so is beer pong and bowling. I've heard the "they endure a lot of gravitational force", and the "it's really hot in that car" arguments. Pilots endure a lot of gravitational forces, but flying airplanes isn't a sport. I'll concur that they endure a lot to finish a race, but is NASCAR really a sport? Are the drivers really athletes?

I'd like to read your thoughts on this.

'Merica - Canada's Mexico

RFScott
09-10-2013, 06:58 PM
Hulk Hogan wasn't the "Nature Boy". Ric Flair was the "Nature Boy". Before that, Buddy Rogers was the "Nature Boy". At one point, for a short time, Buddy Landel was even the "Nature Boy".

Also, "The Intimidator" was Dale Earnhardt, not Darrell Waltrip. And AA says he is from North Carolina.... ;)

sandsjames
09-10-2013, 07:02 PM
Also, "The Intimidator" was Dale Earnhardt, not Darrell Waltrip. And AA says he is from North Carolina.... ;)

I'm sensing that he did that on purpose.

RFScott
09-10-2013, 07:03 PM
My question is this: Why do you consider NASCAR to be a sport?

What kind of athletic skill does it take to turn left all day?
How does one go to the gym to prepare for a race?

I'll give you the competition aspect of NASCAR. It's highly competitive, but so is beer pong and bowling. I've heard the "they endure a lot of gravitational force", and the "it's really hot in that car" arguments. Pilots endure a lot of gravitational forces, but flying airplanes isn't a sport. I'll concur that they endure a lot to finish a race, but is NASCAR really a sport? Are the drivers really athletes?

I'd like to read your thoughts on this.

'Merica - Canada's Mexico

What about the pilots who compete in air racing competitions such as the Red Bull Series? I am just curious if you would consider that a sport.

RFScott
09-10-2013, 07:04 PM
I'm sensing that he did that on purpose.

At first I was skeptical....then I realized who posted it....

Damn you AA.

AFcynic
09-10-2013, 07:18 PM
It's a competition, but it's not a sport. Competition alone does not make an event a sport. I'm not trying to come off as condescending, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

71Fish
09-10-2013, 07:20 PM
What Clint Boyer did was only a problem if your driver was affected. I see it as no more than helping out a teammate. Even bringing Vickers in was strategy to help the teammate.
If Boyer would have taken out another driver who would have otherwise taken a position from a teammate, that would be a problem. But as it stands now, I don't see a problem with it other than the Golden Boy Jeff Gordon didn't make the chase.

71Fish
09-10-2013, 07:22 PM
The only thing I don't like about the chase is the fact that non-chase drivers can still have a say in the outcome(crash a Chase guy out). If I were running it, there would be 2 races on Sunday...both 200 lap/mile sprints. One for the non-Chase guys so they can go nuts(and still get owner points), and one for the Chase guys(My chase setup would be top 15-18 drivers).

This is only one of the many reasons you aren't running the chase.

RFScott
09-10-2013, 07:22 PM
It's a competition, but it's not a sport. Competition alone does not make an event a sport. I'm not trying to come off as condescending, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

I get where you are coming from; I've often thought about the distinction myself. I was just curious since you had asked about what kind of physical preparation is required for a NASCAR driver. I cannot speak for the drivers, but I know that the pilots in the air racing circuit have to do some grueling workouts to be able to retain consciousness during some of their high-G turns.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-10-2013, 07:30 PM
At first I was skeptical....then I realized who posted it....

Damn you AA.

Charlie the Tuna told me to tell you, "Hi"

3353

SomeRandomGuy
09-10-2013, 07:37 PM
It's a competition, but it's not a sport. Competition alone does not make an event a sport. I'm not trying to come off as condescending, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

I think I agree with you here but the line between competition and sport is very blurred. It seems like a lot of people would say sports are events where the objective of the game is soemthing entirely made up (take an oblong ball 100 yards without your opponent tackling you) versus a competition is where you attempt to do somewhat ordinary tasks (driving) better than your opponents. Even that definiton has its own holes though. Is golf a sport? What about bowling? Under my definitoon both of those qualify as sport because the objective is something entirely made up and almost completely pointless. My definition does help on other things though. I think most people would agree that Math League is probably a competition and not a sport. In that case the competitors are seeing who is best at any everyday activity.

71Fish
09-10-2013, 07:42 PM
I think I agree with you here but the line between competition and sport is very blurred. It seems like a lot of people would say sports are events where the objective of the game is soemthing entirely made up (take an oblong ball 100 yards without your opponent tackling you) versus a competition is where you attempt to do somewhat ordinary tasks (driving) better than your opponents. Even that definiton has its own holes though. Is golf a sport? What about bowling? Under my definitoon both of those qualify as sport because the objective is something entirely made up and almost completely pointless. My definition does help on other things though. I think most people would agree that Math League is probably a competition and not a sport. In that case the competitors are seeing who is best at any everyday activity.

ESPN shows spelling bees.

Giant Voice
09-10-2013, 07:49 PM
ESPN shows spelling bees.

And the grueling endurance sport that is Poker!

efmbman
09-10-2013, 07:54 PM
Is golf a sport?

I have been know to play golf, but I do not consider it a sport in terms of athletic ability. Yes, there is a high degree of skill involved but that is very different than athletic ability. I have no doubt that a NASCAR driver is very skilled at what he does and I do not think I could do it, but I still consider it a skill. Just my opinion...

71Fish
09-10-2013, 08:12 PM
I wish Danica Patrick would wear a tighter fire suit.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-12-2013, 01:15 AM
Hulk Hogan wasn't the "Nature Boy". Ric Flair was the "Nature Boy". Before that, Buddy Rogers was the "Nature Boy". At one point, for a short time, Buddy Landel was even the "Nature Boy".

I neglected to comment on this earlier but it kind of scares me that you have such a high degree of knowledge about professional wrestling.

No doubt you would be able to tell me the name of the wrestler who always spit their chewing gum into the air and would knock it into the crowd as they entered the ring.

Although I doubt you need an extra clue, he reminded me of the Biff character from Back to the Future.

71Fish
09-12-2013, 01:40 AM
I neglected to comment on this earlier but it kind of scares me that you have such a high degree of knowledge about professional wrestling.

No doubt you would be able to tell me the name of the wrestler who always spit their chewing gum into the air and would knock it into the crowd as they entered the ring.

Although I doubt you need an extra clue, he reminded me of the Biff character from Back to the Future.

Your knowledge of pro wrestling is also disturbing.

sandsjames
09-12-2013, 01:44 AM
I neglected to comment on this earlier but it kind of scares me that you have such a high degree of knowledge about professional wrestling.

No doubt you would be able to tell me the name of the wrestler who always spit their chewing gum into the air and would knock it into the crowd as they entered the ring.

Although I doubt you need an extra clue, he reminded me of the Biff character from Back to the Future.

Ummm...Razor Ramon...he started as Scott Hall in the AWA, ran by Verne Gagne. He was, at the time, referred to as an alligator wrestler. He was "The Bad Guy", one of the founding members of the NWO in WCW, along with Kevin Nash (Diesel/Oz). When they jumped from WWE to WCW it was one of the first times that it was recognized on a wrestling show that there even was another wrestling company. They were known as "The Outsiders", supposedly not members of WCW. When Hogan came over, they formed the NWO when Hogan went "heel" against Macho Man. Shall I go on? And, no, I'm not ashamed for knowing this.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-12-2013, 02:02 AM
Ummm...Razor Ramon...he started as Scott Hall in the AWA, ran by Verne Gagne. He was, at the time, referred to as an alligator wrestler. He was "The Bad Guy", one of the founding members of the NWO in WCW, along with Kevin Nash (Diesel/Oz). When they jumped from WWE to WCW it was one of the first times that it was recognized on a wrestling show that there even was another wrestling company. They were known as "The Outsiders", supposedly not members of WCW. When Hogan came over, they formed the NWO when Hogan went "heel" against Macho Man. Shall I go on? And, no, I'm not ashamed for knowing this.

Maybe that guy also did the chewing gum stunt but I was talking about was Mr. Perfect; I have no clue as to which wrestling company he worked for.

The only reason I know about that crap is because my ex-wife's family watched that stuff non-stop.

sandsjames
09-12-2013, 02:44 AM
Maybe that guy also did the chewing gum stunt but I was talking about was Mr. Perfect; I have no clue as to which wrestling company he worked for.

The only reason I know about that crap is because my ex-wife's family watched that stuff non-stop.

I just realized my wrong answer...I apologize. Razor had the toothpick...Mr. Perfect also started out in the AWA...him and Razor Ramon were actually tag team partners in their younger days. At the time, Perfect was known by his real name, Curt Hennig...son of Larry the Axe...The best match I ever saw him wrestle was against Nick Bockwinkle...went to a 1 hour time limit draw...ESPN carried the AWA at the time...The match took place the same night that Sugar Ray Leonard fought Marvin Hagler...

Absinthe Anecdote
09-12-2013, 03:02 AM
I just realized my wrong answer...I apologize. Razor had the toothpick...Mr. Perfect also started out in the AWA...him and Razor Ramon were actually tag team partners in their younger days. At the time, Perfect was known by his real name, Curt Hennig...son of Larry the Axe...The best match I ever saw him wrestle was against Nick Bockwinkle...went to a 1 hour time limit draw...ESPN carried the AWA at the time...The match took place the same night that Sugar Ray Leonard fought Marvin Hagler...

Do you think that stuff is real or do you know it is scripted and choreographed?

Chief_KO
09-12-2013, 03:41 AM
NASCAR needs to have a throwback race, using modified stock cars (suspension, safety, engine). That would be interesting to see (at least to me)

71Fish
09-12-2013, 04:43 AM
Ummm...Razor Ramon...he started as Scott Hall in the AWA, ran by Verne Gagne. He was, at the time, referred to as an alligator wrestler. He was "The Bad Guy", one of the founding members of the NWO in WCW, along with Kevin Nash (Diesel/Oz). When they jumped from WWE to WCW it was one of the first times that it was recognized on a wrestling show that there even was another wrestling company. They were known as "The Outsiders", supposedly not members of WCW. When Hogan came over, they formed the NWO when Hogan went "heel" against Macho Man. Shall I go on? And, no, I'm not ashamed for knowing this.

Here is a little history that no one but me will care about, but I'll tell it anyway.

Verne Gagne was originally from MN. Every year he held a Vern Gagne high school wrestling tournament. In 1989 I won my weight class and he presented me with my medal.

sandsjames
09-12-2013, 12:54 PM
Do you think that stuff is real or do you know it is scripted and choreographed?

That is such a ridiculous question. You do realize that for the last 25 years or so everyone is well aware that everything is scripted? I rarely watch anymore, maybe 2 to 3 times a year, but I used to watch it all as much as possible.

sandsjames
09-12-2013, 01:01 PM
Here is a little history that no one but me will care about, but I'll tell it anyway.

Verne Gagne was originally from MN. Every year he held a Vern Gagne high school wrestling tournament. In 1989 I won my weight class and he presented me with my medal.

Pretty awesome getting the medal from him. He's a legend.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-12-2013, 04:00 PM
That is such a ridiculous question. You do realize that for the last 25 years or so everyone is well aware that everything is scripted? I rarely watch anymore, maybe 2 to 3 times a year, but I used to watch it all as much as possible.

Just checking and I'm not so sure I'd slap they "everyone" label onto that statement.

One of my cousins is the operations manager at an arena and a couple of years ago one of the custodians came to him with a look of concern on his face and said, "You can't put all those wrestlers in the same locker room!"

"Why not?" My cousin replied. "Because they'll kill each other in there before the event even starts!"

sandsjames
09-12-2013, 04:29 PM
Just checking and I'm not so sure I'd slap they "everyone" label onto that statement.

One of my cousins is the operations manager at an arena and a couple of years ago one of the custodians came to him with a look of concern on his face and said, "You can't put all those wrestlers in the same locker room!"

"Why not?" My cousin replied. "Because they'll kill each other in there before the event even starts!"

Well, you can't fix....

It's no more real or unreal than any fiction drama anybody watches on TV.

sandsjames
09-13-2013, 10:14 PM
Jeff Gordon has been added to the Chase as a 13th contender...wow!

I missed it...what's the reasoning for that?

edit: Did they want to ensure homosexuals were accounted for?:haha:

RFScott
09-19-2013, 08:37 PM
NAPA has dumped Michael Waltrip Racing as a result of the scandal. From a BleacherReport article:


NAPA announced on Facebook that it will end its sponsorship agreement with Michael Waltrip Racing:

After thorough consideration, NAPA has made the difficult decision to end its sponsorship arrangement with Michael Waltrip Racing effective December 31, 2013. NAPA believes in fair play and does not condone actions such as those that led to the penalties assessed by NASCAR. We remain supportive of the millions of NASCAR fans and will evaluate our future position in motorsports.

Michael Waltrip released a statement following the announcement on Michael Waltrip Racing's Facebook account:

NAPA has been with me from winning two Daytona 500s, to missing races with a new start-up team, and back to victory lane again. The relationship grew far past that of just a sponsor, but more of a partner and a friend. We will not be racing a NAPA car in 2014, but I have friendships that will last a lifetime.

To the fans and those who made their voice heard through social media, as the owner, I am responsible for all actions of MWR. I sincerely apologize for the role our team played and for the lines NASCAR has ruled were crossed by our actions at Richmond. NASCAR met with the competitors in Chicago and we all know how we are expected to race forward.

Link to the article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1767886-ryan-newman-to-replace-martin-truex-jr-in-chase-for-the-cup?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t2