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View Full Version : Does the Air Force have anything similar to the SWO pin?



xeverex21
09-06-2013, 01:56 AM
Enlisted sailors are badgered about the Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist pin since day one and officers have been sleep deprived for that Surface Warfare Officer pin. Does the Air Force give their officers a hard time of "get pin or you are not worthy?"

Capt Alfredo
09-06-2013, 01:59 AM
Dude. Not to go all Robert F. Dorr on you, but can you speak English? This is the Air Force board. No one knows what your acronyms mean. The only "pins" we get are functional badges (to include flying wings) and the rank we pin on our service jackets.

RFScott
09-06-2013, 02:01 AM
I think he is referring to some kind of Surface Warfare pin I have heard some of my Squid buddies talking about, but I do not know exactly what the acronyms mean.

Not only that, but the acronym SWO is kind of ambiguous for certain Air Force folks too. Air Force Weather personnel assigned to support Army units are referred to as SWOs (Staff Weather Officer).

Smeghead
09-06-2013, 02:04 AM
Weapons school patch maybe?

xeverex21
09-06-2013, 02:11 AM
I was hoping someone who crossed forces could answer me, as I know pinning for AF and Navy are different.

Rusty Jones
09-06-2013, 02:11 AM
I'll answer his question: no. Air Force pins denote AFSC (or rating), and Airmen get them upon completion of Tech School (A School).

The closest thing to warfare designators outside of the Navy and Coast Guard is the Army's Expert Infantryman Badge (EIB).

garhkal
09-06-2013, 04:08 AM
Though i do agree with the OP.. As a navy guy i can attest to the "If you ain't got a pin, you ain't worthy" attitude of many uppers.

BRUWIN
09-06-2013, 04:58 AM
Enlisted sailors are badgered about the Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist pin since day one and officers have been sleep deprived for that Surface Warfare Officer pin. Does the Air Force give their officers a hard time of "get pin or you are not worthy?"

What do you have to do to earn the pin if you are enlisted?

Rusty Jones
09-06-2013, 10:12 AM
Though i do agree with the OP.. As a navy guy i can attest to the "If you ain't got a pin, you ain't worthy" attitude of many uppers.

I don't see what the gripe is. It's not hard. Not by a long shot.

Rusty Jones
09-06-2013, 10:17 AM
What do you have to do to earn the pin if you are enlisted?

Basically, learn the ins and outs of the class of ship you're assigned to - the propulsion systems, the weapons systems, supply systems, navigation systems, etc and then demonstrate that knowledge at the "murder board."

BOSS302
09-06-2013, 10:31 AM
Enlisted sailors are badgered about the Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist pin since day one and officers have been sleep deprived for that Surface Warfare Officer pin. Does the Air Force give their officers a hard time of "get pin or you are not worthy?"

Enlisted airmen are badgered about the PT Excellence patch since day one and body builders have been sleep deprived for that waist measurement/BMI calculation. The Air Force gives their officers a hard time of "Run in a marathon or you are not worthy."

garhkal
09-06-2013, 05:11 PM
What do you have to do to earn the pin if you are enlisted?

Depends on which warfare pin.
ESWS - memorize a crap ton of stuff on each and every area on the ship, such as the ships power and steam generation flow chart, all the supply codes, what weapons do what etc. Take a test, do an oral board.
EAWS (enlisted air war), similar but doing with each and every type of plane and squadron.
ESSS (subsurface spec, submariner). Same but all the stuff for your type of sub

Giant Voice
09-06-2013, 05:39 PM
Enlisted airmen are badgered about the PT Excellence patch since day one and body builders have been sleep deprived for that waist measurement/BMI calculation. The Air Force gives their officers a hard time of "Run in a marathon or you are not worthy."

Can I play?

Enlisted airmen are badgered about their CCAF since day one and NCO's have sleep deprived for their Bachelors degree. Yes, you're not a true officer without the 26.2 sticker on your car/suv window.

TREYSLEDGE
09-06-2013, 06:18 PM
Can I play?

Enlisted airmen are badgered about their CCAF since day one and NCO's have sleep deprived for their Bachelors degree. Yes, you're not a true officer without the 26.2 sticker on your car/suv window.

What's the 26.2 sticker?

Pullinteeth
09-06-2013, 06:45 PM
I prefer the 1.5 sticker myself.

Smeghead
09-06-2013, 07:20 PM
I prefer the 1.5 sticker myself.

0.0

Smeghead
09-06-2013, 07:20 PM
Enlisted airmen are badgered about the PT Excellence patch since day one ..."

What reality is this happening in? The PT patch was canx'd before it ever appeared.

BOSS302
09-06-2013, 09:50 PM
What reality is this happening in? The PT patch was canx'd before it ever appeared.



http://imgc.artprintimages.com/images/art-print/bruno-barbier-young-man-with-fish-caught-on-a-line-northeast-coast-island-of-praslin-seychelles_i-G-21-2151-B35CD00Z.jpg

Airborne
09-06-2013, 09:54 PM
Yes. The CCAF degree.

Smeghead
09-06-2013, 10:16 PM
We could learn the ins and outs of aircraft, etc. Make the pin semi-mandatory before making E-7.

Great idea @CSAF

The number of people in the AF who can't even identify common airframes like 16s and 130s is frightening. Then again, I live in nonner world so I suppose it's to be expected.

Rusty Jones
09-06-2013, 11:35 PM
We could learn the ins and outs of aircraft, etc. Make the pin semi-mandatory before making E-7.

Great idea @CSAF

I suppose the Air Force could quite easily develop their own pin - just take the Navy's EAWS, and tweak the Common Core to reflect the AF's mission, and develop their own unit specifics.

Though, other than to severely piss off a force of half a million Airmen, I don't see why the AF would do this.

Stalwart
09-07-2013, 01:18 AM
The only "pins" we get are functional badges (to include flying wings) and the rank we pin on our service jackets.

The functional badges have increasing levels of proficiency, correct?

Basic, Senior & Master or something like that?

Rusty Jones
09-07-2013, 01:42 AM
The functional badges have increasing levels of proficiency, correct?

Basic, Senior & Master or something like that?

I can see the Navy borrowing from this model, when they decide that getting the pin just isn't enough. Now they want you to get a star and a wreath.

Stalwart
09-07-2013, 10:26 AM
I can see the Navy borrowing from this model, when they decide that getting the pin just isn't enough. Now they want you to get a star and a wreath.

Oh I hope not.

The way I get it, the Air Force's functional badges are almost like the Navy's strikers that identify the rating on rank, they get them after "A" School and if you know what they all look like you can denote what their MOS/AFSC (rating) is from it.

The Navy's enlisted warfare pins denote a level of proficiency beyond "A" School / entry level training and are not specific to a rating (MOS or AFSC). A Machinist's Mate who is on a destroyer would get qualified as an Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist and have ESWS) added to his written rank; a Machinist's Mate who is on a submarine would get qualified in submarines and have (SS) added to his rank.

For officers in the Air Force (as I understand it) it is somewhat similar to the enlisted. In the Navy you cannot denote what an officer's community is from their rank insignia but you usually can from their warfare device if they have one but there are opportunities for Naval officers to qualify in warfare areas outside their designator (AFSC/MOS).

I confuse a lot of people when I am in uniform, I am an Information Warfare Officer and my primary warfare device (the one I wear on top of my ribbons) is the Information Dominance Corps one (IW officers, Intel officers, METOC/weather, and Information Professional Officers can get that one). I have also qualified in several other warfare areas (Surface Warfare, Naval Aviation Observer, Navy & Marine Corps Parachutist & Marine Corps Combatant Diver) and rotate my secondary warfare device (the one on my pocket flap under my ribbons) depending on where I am.

Capt Alfredo
09-07-2013, 06:08 PM
Yes, there are basic, senior, and master badges. The basic has no star, the senior has a star, the master has a star and a wreath. On the enlisted side this is tied to the 3, 7, and 9 skill levels. For officers it's usually based on time in the AFSC. For example, when I reached a combined 15 years of having an intel AFSC, I put on the wreath, even though I was a first lieutenant at the time. An easy way to spot prior-enlisted officers.

Chief_KO
09-07-2013, 07:07 PM
Actually the enlisted badges do not recognize the 9-skill level (SMSgt). From AFI 36-2903: 10.4.3. Enlisted. Wear the basic badge after completing technical school. Wear the senior badge after award of the 7-skill level, and the master badge as a master sergeant or above with 5 years in the specialty from award of the 7-skill level.

Capt Alfredo
09-07-2013, 07:16 PM
Actually the enlisted badges do not recognize the 9-skill level (SMSgt). From AFI 36-2903: 10.4.3. Enlisted. Wear the basic badge after completing technical school. Wear the senior badge after award of the 7-skill level, and the master badge as a master sergeant or above with 5 years in the specialty from award of the 7-skill level.

Thanks - I didn't know that. I guess it does make sense, though.

Gonzo432
09-07-2013, 11:25 PM
The number of people in the AF who can't even identify common airframes like 16s and 130s is frightening. Then again, I live in nonner world so I suppose it's to be expected.

People in the AF don't know an F-16 from a C-130? That scares me.

Rusty Jones
09-07-2013, 11:39 PM
People in the AF don't know an F-16 from a C-130? That scares me.

But after all is said and done, does it really matter? If someone is a medic or a cook, does knowing their aircraft make them do their job better?

I never complained about having to get my ESWS. The clock doesn't even start until you're an E5 at a deployable unit, and then you have 18 months from there. I got mine as an E4 with 4 months on board.

Though I still never understood the purpose of it.

Gonzo432
09-08-2013, 12:03 AM
But after all is said and done, does it really matter? If someone is a medic or a cook, does knowing their aircraft make them do their job better?

I never complained about having to get my ESWS. The clock doesn't even start until you're an E5 at a deployable unit, and then you have 18 months from there. I got mine as an E4 with 4 months on board.

Though I still never understood the purpose of it.

Understanding that you are part of something bigger than any one "job" is very important. It's the difference of "being in the military" and "working for the military".

efmbman
09-08-2013, 12:05 AM
Understanding that you are part of something bigger than any one "job" is very important. It's the difference of "being in the military" and "working for the military".

I agree. Having spent the majority of my career in the Army Medical Department, I believed there were "Army Doctors" and "Doctors in the Army". It was easy to tell the difference.

imnohero
09-08-2013, 12:17 AM
I guess I'm split on this one. yes, getting that you are part of "something bigger" is important. But I agree with Rusty, specific knowledge of aircraft is not really necessary to being good at being a cook (or other non-aircraft job). Would it be good if a airman in services or the clinic knew the difference between transport and fighter aircraft? Sure. But it doesn't make them a "bad person" or "bad at their job" if they don't.

Personally, I'm happy if they know how to do their assigned job. Low expectations? Probably. But after a lot of years, I've learned to keep my expectations low, that way I don't get pissed off.

Rusty Jones
09-08-2013, 01:07 AM
Understanding that you are part of something bigger than any one "job" is very important. It's the difference of "being in the military" and "working for the military".

But the Navy is the only service that sees this as an imperative. I mean, in the Army, the EIB is only for infantrmen; and they're not even REQUIRED to get it. In the Coast Guard, you get your Cutterman pin after six months onboard, as long as you're qualed in DC and whatever watches that you're required to stand. And you know something else? Seamanship and navigation skills in the Coast Guard are far superior to those of the Navy's. They are to us in navigation and seamanship what the Marine Corps is to the Army in terms of combat skills.

Gonzo432
09-08-2013, 01:20 AM
I guess I'm split on this one. yes, getting that you are part of "something bigger" is important. But I agree with Rusty, specific knowledge of aircraft is not really necessary to being good at being a cook (or other non-aircraft job). Would it be good if a airman in services or the clinic knew the difference between transport and fighter aircraft? Sure. But it doesn't make them a "bad person" or "bad at their job" if they don't.

Personally, I'm happy if they know how to do their assigned job. Low expectations? Probably. But after a lot of years, I've learned to keep my expectations low, that way I don't get pissed off.

It's easy, fighters are small, pointy, and begin with an "F". Cargo aircraft are big, round, and begin with a "C".

I never said not knowing a C-130H from a C-130J makes you a bad person (4 prop blades vice 6 by the way). Maybe it's because I'm an old retired guy who went through a lot of years being focused on the J-O-B instead of being in the Air Force. By the time I figured out BOTH things are very important I was a late-30s MSgt. You can be really good on the J-O-B and know the big picture of organization you are a part of.

BOSS302
09-08-2013, 11:42 AM
I don't think knowing the aircraft inventory of the United States Air Force makes one better at their job. I do not think I am a better Civil Engineer airman because I know the difference between an F-15 C/D and an F-15E...or the differences between current heavy cargo aircraft such as the C-17 and C-5 vs retired ones such as the venerable C-141 (that bastard of an aircraft kept my Dad working late many nights....who the hell thought it was a good idea to STRETCH a fucking heavy??!).

Yet knowing the aircraft inventory of your Air Force does make you out to be less of an ignoramus. :)

Gonzo432
09-08-2013, 08:23 PM
I don't think knowing the aircraft inventory of the United States Air Force makes one better at their job. I do not think I am a better Civil Engineer airman because I know the difference between an F-15 C/D and an F-15E...or the differences between current heavy cargo aircraft such as the C-17 and C-5 vs retired ones such as the venerable C-141 (that bastard of an aircraft kept my Dad working late many nights....who the hell thought it was a good idea to STRETCH a fucking heavy??!).

Yet knowing the aircraft inventory of your Air Force does make you out to be less of an ignoramus. :)

Not being an ignoramus is an outstanding goal to acheive in all walks of life. If you get up every morning, look in the mirror and say, "I'm not going to be an ignoramus", that's a good thing.

technomage1
09-08-2013, 09:33 PM
The pin doesn't make sense for the AF but does for the Navy. If you're on a ship it benefits you and the Navy to know as much about it as possible. Also keep in mind we move around a lot. I've been at C130, C17, B52, B2, F16, F15, and F22 bases. I'm not sure how often the Navy changes ships.

The only thing the AF ever had that was close was the old SAC Master Technician badge.

Rusty Jones
09-09-2013, 03:15 AM
The pin doesn't make sense for the AF but does for the Navy. If you're on a ship it benefits you and the Navy to know as much about it as possible. Also keep in mind we move around a lot. I've been at C130, C17, B52, B2, F16, F15, and F22 bases. I'm not sure how often the Navy changes ships.

The only thing the AF ever had that was close was the old SAC Master Technician badge.

I've never been to an aviation command, so I don't know how often Naval aviaton and the Air Force work together, or even if they do at all.

But what I do know is that there is a precedent: the EAWS.

A senior Air Force officer who is familiar with the Navy's EAWS, in theory, could pull a dick move and have something similar implemented.

Though I think it's safe to say that, EAWS having been around since 1980, if the Air Force really wanted to borrow that idea, it would have a long time ago.

imnohero
09-09-2013, 03:36 AM
There are occasional joint forces exercises with the fighters or rescue assets. Other than that? I certainly didn't work with any Marine or Navy airlift during my career. Two different worlds. Doesn't help that the AF Big Wigs have an ongoing self-esteem problem with other services having fixed wing assets.