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Pullinteeth
08-30-2013, 05:06 PM
That was quite the odd sentence. The Judge said the girl (14YO) was "older than her chronological age"?? I thought that was no excuse but apparently one judge disagrees....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/29/rape-victim-mother-rejects-mont-judge-apology/?intcmp=obnetwork

imnohero
08-30-2013, 05:12 PM
Something is weird...


[The judge] said the sentence was based on Rambold's violation of an earlier deal he made with prosecutors, rather than the original crime.

That article doesn't even come close to telling the whole story.

RS6405
09-01-2013, 09:27 AM
Apparently when victim committed suicide, the prosecution felt that their case was compromised so they offered him a plea deal where the teacher would complete a 3 year sexual perp program with the condition if he fails to do so, they will prosecute him on the charges. Apparently he had unsupervised contact with his children and started a sexual relationship with a woman in violation of the program, not the sentance. So they prosecuted him on the original charge. The judge reference the plea deal when he sentanced him while stating his inappropriate opinions about the victim.

The case is being appealed since the conviction requires a higher minimum sentance guidelines and will probably cite the Judges statements as part of the appeal.

AJBIGJ
09-01-2013, 11:34 AM
Apparently when victim committed suicide, the prosecution felt that their case was compromised so they offered him a plea deal where the teacher would complete a 3 year sexual perp program with the condition if he fails to do so, they will prosecute him on the charges. Apparently he had unsupervised contact with his children and started a sexual relationship with a woman in violation of the program, not the sentance. So they prosecuted him on the original charge. The judge reference the plea deal when he sentanced him while stating his inappropriate opinions about the victim.

The case is being appealed since the conviction requires a higher minimum sentance guidelines and will probably cite the Judges statements as part of the appeal.

This stuff is definitely your balliwick more than mine, I was only involved to the extent that a victim comes forward, still it leaves a lot of questions here. I would think the Judge would be held accountable for such a weak sentence.

My first question of course goes to the "chronological age" comment. This leads me to speculate that maybe this was a consensual statutory case? The penalties for a conviction of rape, or even of sexual assault tend to be much more severe even when the victim is not a minor. I will submit not always. I know the RAINN statistic says although of the 5% of sexual crimes that to a conviction, only 3% of the criminals ever spend a single day in prison. There's a lot going into this we don't see and realistically probably won't see I imagine.

imnohero
09-01-2013, 12:58 PM
This leads me to speculate that maybe this was a consensual statutory case?

I suppose the following depends on individual ideas of "consent".

Clearly the law says a 14 year old can not consent to a sexual relationship with an adult. The question that seems to come up in these sort of cases (minor/adult relationship) is whether the minor is ABLE to give autonomous consent to the relationship.

My inclination is to say they can not. I say inclination because human development is individual and takes a long time. I don't think anyone would argue that a 7 year old can give consent to a sexual relationship with an adult. But where in human development does a person become a moral agent, capable of autonomy, and self-direction? 12, 14, 18, 21? This is a philosophical quandary, that the law/government has settled by setting minimum ages for certain activities. But it doesn't really answer the question.

AJBIGJ
09-01-2013, 02:16 PM
I suppose the following depends on individual ideas of "consent".

Clearly the law says a 14 year old can not consent to a sexual relationship with an adult. The question that seems to come up in these sort of cases (minor/adult relationship) is whether the minor is ABLE to give autonomous consent to the relationship.

My inclination is to say they can not. I say inclination because human development is individual and takes a long time. I don't think anyone would argue that a 7 year old can give consent to a sexual relationship with an adult. But where in human development does a person become a moral agent, capable of autonomy, and self-direction? 12, 14, 18, 21? This is a philosophical quandary, that the law/government has settled by setting minimum ages for certain activities. But it doesn't really answer the question.

You're correct in the sense that that is why they even have such thing as "statutory rape". My concern was, and someone will have to correct me if I'm mistaken in this, that the penalties tend to be more severe when the teens (or less) were unwilling participants in the activity. But I'm uncertain as to the specifics of how.

imnohero
09-01-2013, 02:41 PM
A quick survey of google and several states seems to indicate that penalties vary state by state, as well as the age of consent, age differentials between participants, "peer" sex between minors, etc.

I don't think without a comprehensive search of state laws and case histories, you question can be answered in a definitive way. That said, I would expect to see sentencing variations depending on the circumstances of the case: 19 year old comes home from college and has sex with his 17 year old GF, parents object and call the cops. Probably not a heavy sentence? 30 year old has "consensual sex" with 13 year old neighbor girl, I'm guessing heavy sentence.

With the advent of lifetime sexual offender registration, and the automatic restrictions that accompany that, I'm not sure "jail time" is the only thing to think about when it comes to sentencing severity.

AJBIGJ
09-01-2013, 03:21 PM
A quick survey of google and several states seems to indicate that penalties vary state by state, as well as the age of consent, age differentials between participants, "peer" sex between minors, etc.

I don't think without a comprehensive search of state laws and case histories, you question can be answered in a definitive way. That said, I would expect to see sentencing variations depending on the circumstances of the case: 19 year old comes home from college and has sex with his 17 year old GF, parents object and call the cops. Probably not a heavy sentence? 30 year old has "consensual sex" with 13 year old neighbor girl, I'm guessing heavy sentence.

With the advent of lifetime sexual offender registration, and the automatic restrictions that accompany that, I'm not sure "jail time" is the only thing to think about when it comes to sentencing severity.

Fair enough, nothing I've seen would indicate whether or not he will become a registered sex offender over this or not. I think we've both proven a point, the devil's in the details!

imnohero
09-01-2013, 04:10 PM
the devil's in the details!

It almost always is, the devil is sneaky that way. :firedevil:

Pullinteeth
09-03-2013, 12:34 PM
You're correct in the sense that that is why they even have such thing as "statutory rape". My concern was, and someone will have to correct me if I'm mistaken in this, that the penalties tend to be more severe when the teens (or less) were unwilling participants in the activity. But I'm uncertain as to the specifics of how.

You are talking about forcible rape of a minor...when violence or the threat of violence is involved as opposed to statutory rape whereas there is no violence but the "adult" is old enough to know better and takes advantage of someone below the age of consent. If force or the threat of force is involved, the sentence is generally more severe than if it isn't. Not a perfect analogy but it is like the difference between kidnapping and kidnapping ending in murder. Both kidnappers would get jail sentences but the one that kills the kid is probably getting a longer sentence.

AJBIGJ
09-04-2013, 03:39 AM
You are talking about forcible rape of a minor...when violence or the threat of violence is involved as opposed to statutory rape whereas there is no violence but the "adult" is old enough to know better and takes advantage of someone below the age of consent. If force or the threat of force is involved, the sentence is generally more severe than if it isn't. Not a perfect analogy but it is like the difference between kidnapping and kidnapping ending in murder. Both kidnappers would get jail sentences but the one that kills the kid is probably getting a longer sentence.

Precisely what I was talking about.

Pullinteeth
09-04-2013, 07:05 PM
The judge now says his sentence might be illegal... I wonder if he will sentence himself to 31 days as punishment for issuing an illegal sentence?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/03/us/montana-teacher-rape/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Bunch
09-04-2013, 11:52 PM
The judge now says his sentence might be illegal... I wonder if he will sentence himself to 31 days as punishment for issuing an illegal sentence?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/03/us/montana-teacher-rape/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

That's the same thing I was thinking. He probably be removed or voted out as a result of this.