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Bry279
08-26-2013, 06:16 PM
Hi I am currently being discharged due to pt. It's a long story but the first questions is how long does this process usually take from The decision to the outprocessing? Also, people tell me I can receive half severance pay. Is this true? What AFI governs this any help would be very helpful. I currently got hired on as a electrician but I need to give them the best estimate that Iwill be out. Thanks everyone in advance.

Bunch
08-26-2013, 06:29 PM
I can only speak from experience and things might have changed a bit but when my ex wife got separated for PT she didnt got anything but that was like 5 years ago. It was on the AFI, that PT discharge gets nothing I will find it hard to believe that they change that.

Bry279
08-26-2013, 06:41 PM
More importantly do you remember roughly how long it took her from her last fail? Thanks

Bry279
08-26-2013, 06:42 PM
To separate I mean

Bunch
08-26-2013, 06:58 PM
Like 6 weeks.

technomage1
08-26-2013, 07:11 PM
It's quick if you're not putting up a fight. I've seen about a month in most cases.

The one thing you want to ask if you can keep is the GI Bill benefits. The PT discharges I've seen, as long as the rest of the member's service was honorable, they were allowed to keep those. I could be wrong but I don't think it's automatic, so I would ask about it if I were you.

Bry279
08-26-2013, 07:35 PM
My first sgt assured me it's a honorable discharge. I am just hoping it's fast I have a very good paying job on the outside. I do love the Air Force but the waist has gotten the best of me. Thanks for your replies.

Bry279
08-26-2013, 07:41 PM
I now need to get out ASAP to secure a mid Oct start date

Class5Kayaker
08-26-2013, 09:25 PM
Honorable Discharge....ZERO severance pay, but still eligble for GI Bill, Disabilty, etc.

Too lazy to look up the AFI reference, but let me know if you really need it for some reason and I'll look it up for you.

Bry279
08-26-2013, 09:52 PM
Thanks I was just curious because a friend sent me a link with conflicting info. If you know the afi I wouldn't mind looking at it. Thanks

CYBERFX1024
08-26-2013, 10:09 PM
Thanks I was just curious because a friend sent me a link with conflicting info. If you know the afi I wouldn't mind looking at it. Thanks

What job are you looking at on the outside? If you don't mind me asking. Make sure that it is a sure thing and not just a "conditional" offer.

Class5Kayaker
08-26-2013, 10:37 PM
Thanks I was just curious because a friend sent me a link with conflicting info. If you know the afi I wouldn't mind looking at it. Thanks
Administrative Separation.

AFI 36-3208 for active duty enlisted members,

AFI 36-3206, Administrative Discharge Procedures for Commissioned Officers, for active duty officers,

AFI 36-3209, Separation and Retirement Procedures for Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve Members, for all ARC members

I'm going to assume you're enlisted since the bulk of our force is.


It is considered "Unsatisfactory Performance":




5.26. Criteria. Airmen are subject to discharge for unsatisfactory performance based on documented failure to meet Air Force standards. Commanders must weigh an airman's conduct, military deportment, and duty performance against those of other airmen of like grade, age, and length of service. While unsatisfactory performance may be due to one flaw in a member's abilities, it is shown as a rule, in more than one way. When this is the case, the recommendation for discharge for unsatisfactory performance should cite all the deficiencies that were not overcome by counseling and rehabilitation. One or more of the following may be used as the basis for discharge under this provision:

5.26.1. Unsatisfactory duty performance:

5.26.1.1. Failure to perform assigned duties properly.
5.26.1.2. A progressively downward trend in performance ratings.
5.26.1.3. Failure to demonstrate the qualities of leadership required by the member's grade.5.26.2. Failure to maintain standards of dress and personal appearance (other than fitness standards) or military deportment.
5.26.3. Failure to progress in military training required to be qualified for service with the Air Force or for performance of primary duties.
5.26.4. Irresponsibility in the management of personal finances.
5.26.5. Unsanitary habits such as repeated infection of venereal disease, persistent refusal to bathe, and similar refusal to observe personal hygiene.
5.26.6. Failure to meet minimum fitness standards. Airmen who fail to meet minimum standards of fitness for reasons not amounting to disability may be discharged. Follow the procedures for fitness management according to current Fitness Program AFI before starting action to discharge. Make sure the case file shows the record of those actions.

Separation is considered honorable:



5.28.2. The service of airmen discharged for unsatisfactory performance will be characterized as honorable or general (instructions for service characterization in Chapter 1, Section 1B, apply). However, if the sole reason for separation is for failure to meet physical fitness standards, then only an honorable characterization may be given.

No separation pay is authorized:




Chapter 9
SEPARATION PAY

9.1. General Procedures. All the basic criteria below defining eligibility for separation pay must be met before a member is eligible for payment.

9.1.1. The member is on active duty (AD) and has completed at least 6 years, but fewer than 20 years of active service; active service does not have to be continuous.
9.1.2. The member must not separate at his/her own request. (However, after a member has been formally and officially denied reenlistment or continuation on active duty, the member may request an earlier separation from AD without loss of separation pay.) Consider as a separation at the member's own request, the following:

9.1.2.1. A member who declines training for a new skill as a precondition to reenlistment or continuation on AD.
9.1.2.2. A member who declines to test for promotion or declines the promotion and is subsequently separated under a high year of tenure program.
9.1.2.3. A member who requests voluntary separation under any of the provisions in Chapter 2 or Chapter 3 of this directive, except when member has been denied reenlistment or continuation on AD.
9.1.2.4. A member who declines to get the required retainability for permanent change of station.9.1.3. The member must not separate during the initial enlistment. Members who complete their initial enlistment of 4 or 6 years and who are involuntarily separated while on an extension of their enlistment and have more than 6 years of active service are eligible for separation pay.
9.1.4. The member is not being dropped from Air Force rolls and is not eligible for retirement at time of separation.
9.1.5. The member is not separated for "misconduct" or "unsatisfactory performance" as defined in Chapter 5, Section 5E and Section 5H.
9.1.6. The member is not separated as a result of a court-martial sentence.
9.1.7. The member is not separated with a service characterization of under other than honorable conditions.
9.1.8. The member must agree in writing to serve in the Ready Reserve for at least 3 years following the separation from active duty. A member who qualifies for separation pay (see Figure 9.1), but is unqualified for the Ready Reserves still must agree in writing to serve in the Ready Reserve in order to receive separation pay (see paragraph 9.1.8 second bullet and Table 9.1).

9.1.8.1. A member who enters into this written agreement and who is qualified to serve in the ready reserve will be released to the Air Force Reserve and his/her agreement mailed to ARPC/ XPX, Denver CO 80280-5000. The only members who, otherwise qualify for ready reserve, will be accepted to enter into ready reserve are those who qualify for full separation pay or are separated for involuntary expiration of term of service. All other members will be discharged.
9.1.8.2. If the member has a military service obligation that is not completed at the time the member is released from AD, the 3-year obligation will begin on the day after the day on which the member completes his/her obligation.
9.1.8.3. A member who enters into this written agreement and is not qualified for continuation in the ready reserve will be discharged. A member need not be qualified for reserve duty to meet this condition of eligibility for separation pay.

Since PT discharges are for "Unsatisfactory Performance," no separation pay authorized.

Bry279
08-26-2013, 11:16 PM
Thanks I really appreciate it. I do have a conditional offer for a electrician on locomotives. I am almost about clear all my medical and then I will wait for the final word. I got the job as long as all my medical is squared away which it is.

Bry279
08-26-2013, 11:19 PM
But I also need as much time as I can get so I can get out of the Air Force

efmbman
08-26-2013, 11:29 PM
Honorable Discharge....ZERO severance pay, but still eligble for GI Bill, Disabilty, etc.

Too lazy to look up the AFI reference, but let me know if you really need it for some reason and I'll look it up for you.

I hope someone knows for certain, but I think that one must serve at least 3 years to be eligible for the post 9-11 GI Bill.

Bry279
08-26-2013, 11:30 PM
I believe that is correct been in 8 years

Silverback
08-26-2013, 11:43 PM
I believe that is correct been in 8 years

Best of luck to you in your transition. It sounds like you will do fine. You have a plan.

efmbman
08-26-2013, 11:44 PM
I believe that is correct been in 8 years

OK - at least you don't have to worry about that! Just looking out.

Bry279
08-27-2013, 01:44 AM
Thanks everyone for the help. Like I said Air Force is great but I have never kept up well with weight standards. I can run decent and the rest but my waist is horrible. I just took a strength test for my new job and did well that made me feel good. It wasn't easy either ugh. Again thank you and hopefully this will help others .

sandsjames
08-27-2013, 01:55 AM
Only seen severance pay once as it relates to PT, but that's because we had a really good commander, and it wasn't technically due to PT failures. The guy had been in 12 years (was a SSgt). The Commander took a stripe, making him a SrA, putting him over HYT, thus the "severance pay". That's kind of a roundabout way to get it, though.

Bunch
08-27-2013, 02:04 AM
I hope someone knows for certain, but I think that one must serve at least 3 years to be eligible for the post 9-11 GI Bill.

Just for clarification.

You are elegible for GI bill benefits after just 90 days of active duty. Just 30 days if the member was separated by a service connected injury. The 3 years mark you probably speak of is to qualify for full benefits for 36 months but even that can change under special circumstances. Always recommend your fellow airmen/soldier, sailor, marine/ coasties to visit the VA website for specific and up to date GI Bill information.

efmbman
08-27-2013, 02:25 AM
Just for clarification.

You are elegible for GI bill benefits after just 90 days of active duty. Just 30 days if the member was separated by a service connected injury. The 3 years mark you probably speak of is to qualify for full benefits for 36 months but even that can change under special circumstances. Always recommend your fellow airmen/soldier, sailor, marine/ coasties to visit the VA website for specific and up to date GI Bill information.

Yes, that is what I meant. Sorry for any confusion.

dudley
08-27-2013, 03:41 AM
I am going through the same thing. I am wondering the same thing about the severance pay. Here is my argument:

AFI 36-3208:
9.1.5. The member is not separated for "misconduct" or "unsatisfactory performance" as defined in Chapter 5, Section 5E and Section 5H.

But there is an entire section under 5K
Section 5K—Failure in the Fitness Program.
5.65. Failure in the Fitness Program. Airmen who do not meet fitness standards in AFI 10- 248, Fitness Program, (formerly AFIs 40-501 and 40-502) may be discharged when the failure in the fitness program resulted from a cause which was within their control. Follow the procedures for failure in the fitness program according to AFI 10-248 before starting action to discharge. Make sure the case file shows the record of those actions. NOTE: Administrative actions commenced on or before 31 Dec 03 may be executed to completion, using this paragraph and separation program designator (SPD) codes JCR, GCR, and HCR. Members who were notified in writing on or after 1 Jan 04 (as specified in AFI 10-248) IAW this directive will be separated using SPD codes JFT, GFT and HFT and paragraph 5.26.6.
5.66. Separation Authority and the Type of Separation.
5.66.1. The SPCM authority personally approves or disapproves discharge under this provision unless an Airman who has made an unrestricted report of sexual assault requests review of the discharge (see paragraph 1.31). If the SPCM authority also exercises GCM authority, the vice commander may be designated, in writing, to act personally on these cases. If the SPCM authority is the initiating commander, the case must be referred to the GCM authority for final decision.
5.66.2. The service of airmen discharged for not meeting fitness standards will be characterized as honorable if the sole reason for separation is failure to meet fitness standards.
5.67. Suspension of Discharge. Airmen approved for discharge under this provision should be considered for probation and rehabilitation under Chapter 7. If the member has lengthy service, comply with Chapter 6, Section 5F. If the member is reenlistment eligible, comply with Chapter 6, Section 6E.

So, if the discharge package says discharge under 5K and not under 5E....can you theoretically fight to get severance pay?

dudley
08-27-2013, 03:47 AM
Section 5E—Unsatisfactory Performance.
5.25. Eligibility. Airmen should be discharged when their unsatisfactory performance or conduct shows they are not qualified for service with the Air Force. Performance in the Air Force includes, but is not limited to, work done as assigned duties, military training, bearing, and behavior. It necessarily includes the member's continuing responsibility for maintaining the high standards of personal behavior and conduct required of military members at all times. Airmen may not be discharged under this provision:
5.25.1. If they are in entry level status. Unsatisfactory performance in entry level status is a basis for discharge under Section 5D.
5.25.2. Until they have been counseled about their deficiencies and have a chance to overcome them.
5.26. Criteria. Airmen are subject to discharge for unsatisfactory performance based on documented failure to meet Air Force standards. Commanders must weigh an airman's conduct, military deportment, and duty performance against those of other airmen of like grade, age, and length of service. While unsatisfactory performance may be due to one flaw in a member's abilities, it is shown as a rule, in more than one way. When this is the case, the recommendation for discharge for unsatisfactory performance should cite all the deficiencies that were not overcome by counseling and rehabilitation. One or more of the following may be used as the basis for discharge under this provision:
5.26.1. Unsatisfactory duty performance:
5.26.1.1. Failure to perform assigned duties properly.
5.26.1.2. A progressively downward trend in performance ratings.
5.26.1.3. Failure to demonstrate the qualities of leadership required by the member's grade.
5.26.2. Failure to maintain standards of dress and personal appearance (other than fitness standards) or military deportment.
5.26.3. Failure to progress in military training required to be qualified for service with the Air Force or for performance of primary duties.
5.26.4. Irresponsibility in the management of personal finances.
5.26.5. Unsanitary habits such as repeated infection of venereal disease, persistent refusal to bathe, and similar refusal to observe personal hygiene.
5.26.6. Failure to meet minimum fitness standards. Airmen who fail to meet minimum standards of fitness for reasons not amounting to disability may be discharged. Follow the procedures for fitness management according to current Fitness Program AFI before starting action to discharge. Make sure the case file shows the record of those actions.

AFI36-3208 9 JULY 2004 83
5.26.6. Failure to meet minimum fitness standards. Airmen who fail to meet minimum standards of fitness for reasons not amounting to disability may be discharged. Follow the procedures for fitness management according to current Fitness Program AFI before starting action to discharge. Make sure the case file shows the record of those actions.
Section 5K—Failure in the Fitness Program.
5.65. Failure in the Fitness Program. Airmen who do not meet fitness standards in AFI 10- 248, Fitness Program, (formerly AFIs 40-501 and 40-502) may be discharged when the failure in the fitness program resulted from a cause which was within their control. Follow the procedures for failure in the fitness program according to AFI 10-248 before starting action to discharge. Make sure the case file shows the record of those actions. NOTE: Administrative actions commenced on or before 31 Dec 03 may be executed to completion, using this paragraph and separation program designator (SPD) codes JCR, GCR, and HCR. Members who were notified in writing on or after 1 Jan 04 (as specified in AFI 10-248) IAW this directive will be separated using SPD codes JFT, GFT and HFT and paragraph 5.26.6.
5.66. Separation Authority and the Type of Separation.
5.66.1. The SPCM authority personally approves or disapproves discharge under this provision unless an Airman who has made an unrestricted report of sexual assault requests review of the discharge (see paragraph 1.31). If the SPCM authority also exercises GCM authority, the vice commander may be designated, in writing, to act personally on these cases. If the SPCM authority is the initiating commander, the case must be referred to the GCM authority for final decision.
5.66.2. The service of airmen discharged for not meeting fitness standards will be characterized as honorable if the sole reason for separation is failure to meet fitness standards.
5.67. Suspension of Discharge. Airmen approved for discharge under this provision should be considered for probation and rehabilitation under Chapter 7. If the member has lengthy service, comply with Chapter 6, Section 5F. If the member is reenlistment eligible, comply with Chapter 6, Section 6E.
SEPARATION PAY
9.1. General Procedures. All the basic criteria below defining eligibility for separation pay must be met before a member is eligible for payment.
9.1.1. The member is on active duty (AD) and has completed at least 6 years, but fewer than 20 years of active service; active service does not have to be continuous.
9.1.2. The member must not separate at his/her own request. (However, after a member has been formally and officially denied reenlistment or continuation on active duty, the member may request an earlier separation from AD without loss of separation pay.) Consider as a separation at the member's own request, the following:
9.1.2.1. A member who declines training for a new skill as a precondition to reenlistment or continuation on AD.
9.1.2.2. A member who declines to test for promotion or declines the promotion and is subsequently separated under a high year of tenure program.
9.1.2.3. A member who requests voluntary separation under any of the provisions in Chapter 2 or Chapter 3 of this directive, except when member has been denied reenlistment or continuation on AD.
9.1.2.4. A member who declines to get the required retainability for permanent change of station.
9.1.3. The member must not separate during the initial enlistment. Members who complete their initial enlistment of 4 or 6 years and who are involuntarily separated while on an extension of their enlistment and have more than 6 years of active service are eligible for separation pay.
9.1.4. The member is not being dropped from Air Force rolls and is not eligible for retirement at time of separation.
9.1.5. The member is not separated for "misconduct" or "unsatisfactory performance" as defined in Chapter 5, Section 5E and Section 5H.

So I am wondering if they put in the discharge package that the person is getting discharged under paragraph 5K and not under 5E, can a person fight for separation pay?

Pullinteeth
09-07-2013, 02:27 PM
If you are still wondering, please see AFI 36-3208 table 9.1. rule 8... Failure in Fitness Program=No Pay