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View Full Version : Something that bothers me about Bradley Manning



Stalwart
08-22-2013, 08:01 PM
A friend of mine made the statement today that had Manning shot an unarmed kid in an affluent neighborhood, he would have gotten no jail time (a reference to the George Zimmerman verdict).

Manning has been portrayed by his supporters, lawyers and some in the media as a whistleblower who was exposing war crimes by the United States. However, a couple of things:

1. If he had an issue with U.S. policy in Iraq, Afghanistan or where ever that conflicted his ability to safeguard classified information, why not ask to be reassigned duties that prevented him from being around it?

2. He didn't acknowledge what he did was wrong until after conviction but before sentencing, throwing himself on the mercy of the judge.

3. If he was so principled about what he leaked, why did he did not target what information he released? He essentially went to the classified shared drives & hit CTRL A (select all), CTRL C (copy), and the pasted everything to CDs and thumb drives. EVERYTHING he could find: geopolitical data, after action reports, diplomatic cables, operational reports and briefings. There was no sense to what he copied other than he just took everything he could.

Greg
08-22-2013, 08:32 PM
A friend of mine made the statement today that had Manning shot an unarmed kid in an affluent neighborhood, he would have gotten no jail time (a reference to the George Zimmerman verdict).

Manning has been portrayed by his supporters, lawyers and some in the media as a whistleblower who was exposing war crimes by the United States. However, a couple of things:

1. If he had an issue with U.S. policy in Iraq, Afghanistan or where ever that conflicted his ability to safeguard classified information, why not ask to be reassigned duties that prevented him from being around it?

2. He didn't acknowledge what he did was wrong until after conviction but before sentencing, throwing himself on the mercy of the judge.

3. If he was so principled about what he leaked, why did he did not target what information he released? He essentially went to the classified shared drives & hit CTRL A (select all), CTRL C (copy), and the pasted everything to CDs and thumb drives. EVERYTHING he could find: geopolitical data, after action reports, diplomatic cables, operational reports and briefings. There was no sense to what he copied other than he just took everything he could.

That is exactly what I thought while reading the news reports shortly after this hit the airwaves.

The MSM was concentrating on the BlackHawk video where the Reuter News reporter was killed.

What about the exposed ID of interperters/informers who helped US Forces ID HVT's?

RobotChicken
08-22-2013, 10:15 PM
:spy Gotta watch for double AGENTS(except for Inspector GADGET)

imnohero
08-22-2013, 11:38 PM
A friend of mine made the statement today that had Manning shot an unarmed kid in an affluent neighborhood, he would have gotten no jail time (a reference to the George Zimmerman verdict).

Manning has been portrayed by his supporters, lawyers and some in the media as a whistleblower who was exposing war crimes by the United States. However, a couple of things:

1. If he had an issue with U.S. policy in Iraq, Afghanistan or where ever that conflicted his ability to safeguard classified information, why not ask to be reassigned duties that prevented him from being around it?


I remember reading early on that he supposedly tried using the chain and was shut down, I don't know what ever happened to that, or even if it was true. However, I doubt anyone would have "listened" to an E3 about his moral concerns about the war. Too much rank bias, by which I mean, the people in a position to do something about it would look at his rank and assume he was too dumb, weak, or whatever and was just trying to get out of his duty. I guess, what I'm saying is that appealing to the Chain probably wouldn't have done any good.




3. If he was so principled about what he leaked, why did he did not target what information he released? He essentially went to the classified shared drives & hit CTRL A (select all), CTRL C (copy), and the pasted everything to CDs and thumb drives. EVERYTHING he could find: geopolitical data, after action reports, diplomatic cables, operational reports and briefings. There was no sense to what he copied other than he just took everything he could.

Part of his defense was that he did "tailor" the information...supposedly he took and "everything but..." approach, excluding only those thing that pertained to current missions or something. I don't know whether I buy this or not, but I don't recall hearing anything about tactical missions that were cancelled or failed because of the information release. This suggests that he did remove something from the everything. I could be wrong.

Note: I am in no way defending Manning. Just expressing some thoughts on the topic, which I readily admit are conjecture and only possible alternatives, and may be completely incorrect.

TJMAC77SP
08-23-2013, 04:02 AM
Folks....please don't spend one minute trying to convince yourself or others that he did this for some altruistic higher purpose.

Prior to his deployment he spent time with a ‘hacker’ group in Cambridge, MA (http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/07/15/wikileaks-grand-jury-witness-publishes-first-account-of-prosecutors-questioning/2/). One of the key members was a gay guy who he developed a crush one. (http://3dblogger.typepad.com/wired_state/2013/02/did-aaron-swartz-help-bradley-manning-hack-for-wikileaks.html) Within this group to hack a secure site and release data was the highest of ‘cool’ acts. He did this to impress what amounts to a girl (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2010/08/did_bradley_manning_share_clas.html). Plain and simple. Nothing more complicated than that.

imnohero
08-23-2013, 04:16 AM
Perhaps so. It wouldn't be the first time a boy did something to "impress" a romantic interest. On the other hand, all those links have is suspicions and conjecture, which is all we have.

Class5Kayaker
08-23-2013, 01:15 PM
Folks....please don't spend one minute trying to convince yourself or others that he did this for some altruistic higher purpose.

Prior to his deployment he spent time with a ‘hacker’ group in Cambridge, MA (http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/07/15/wikileaks-grand-jury-witness-publishes-first-account-of-prosecutors-questioning/2/). One of the key members was a gay guy who he developed a crush one. (http://3dblogger.typepad.com/wired_state/2013/02/did-aaron-swartz-help-bradley-manning-hack-for-wikileaks.html) Within this group to hack a secure site and release data was the highest of ‘cool’ acts. He did this to impress what amounts to a BOY (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2010/08/did_bradley_manning_share_clas.html). Plain and simple. Nothing more complicated than that.

Fixed it for ya. Manning was obviously the "girl" in their relationship

TJMAC77SP
08-23-2013, 10:47 PM
Perhaps so. It wouldn't be the first time a boy did something to "impress" a romantic interest. On the other hand, all those links have is suspicions and conjecture, which is all we have.

No it wouldn't be the first time someone was motivated by their lust but that isn't my point.

His supporters and those that repeat their drivel try to paint him as an idealist. He simply isn't.

While the articles cited are mostly opinion pieces they cite facts known to be true. Would PBS Frontline (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/wikileaks/manning-facebook-page/) be acceptable? Not mention of an ideals on his FB page until he is arrested. Imagine that. He was upset over Tyler Watkins’ relationship status.
He even mentions the AH-64 gunship footage in a chat…. "At first glance ... it was just a bunch of guys getting shot up by a helicopter ... no big deal," he writes. "But something struck me as odd about the van thing ... and also the fact that it was being stored in a JAG officer's directory ... so I looked into it."

No real idealistic outrage there.

He was idealistic about one subject....gay rights. Understandable but still doesn't make him the idealistic heroic whistleblower many are attempting to paint him as.

imnohero
08-23-2013, 11:01 PM
I agree with you. I don't think he's an idealist "hero" or some of the other laudatory things he supporters have called him.

I also don't think he's some sort of craven "traitor", like his detractors have said, that deserves the death penalty. It's perfectly plausible that he was some love-sick kid trying to impress someone. Or he hated his job, and wanted out, by any means possible. I suppose it's even possible he was all of these at one point or another. Human's are complex that way.

it's unfortunate that we won't be able to read the trial transcripts, because I think it would give us some insight into his mental state, motives, etc.

Rizzo77
08-24-2013, 12:43 AM
I am in no way defending the traitor, BUT:

He went to his chain of command and went to mental health prior to the deployment in which he betrayed the country. He made his case and was still denied, because "everybody has to go." He asked for help, and was denied.

That in no way is a defense of his traitorous actions, but it is certainly something to think about.

Greg
08-24-2013, 01:10 AM
..........

AJBIGJ
08-24-2013, 01:12 AM
..........

I think I giggled enough at this one to pee a little bit!

TJMAC77SP
08-24-2013, 03:27 AM
I agree with you. I don't think he's an idealist "hero" or some of the other laudatory things he supporters have called him.

I also don't think he's some sort of craven "traitor", like his detractors have said, that deserves the death penalty. It's perfectly plausible that he was some love-sick kid trying to impress someone. Or he hated his job, and wanted out, by any means possible. I suppose it's even possible he was all of these at one point or another. Human's are complex that way.

it's unfortunate that we won't be able to read the trial transcripts, because I think it would give us some insight into his mental state, motives, etc.

Why won't we be able to read the transcripts? Well, they usually aren't published but I haven't heard anything about this CM being a closed session.

Manning is a broken human being. He was before he went in. I have never bought into the 'traitor' label. The opposite is equally untrue (he deserves praise). THAT has always been my point in this case.

imnohero
08-24-2013, 03:32 AM
Part(s) of the CM were closed for classified material discussions, testimony, arguments, motions, etc.

We might eventually get a redacted version through FOIA, if someone with clout pushes hard enough. But I'm not holding my breath.

TJMAC77SP
08-24-2013, 04:11 PM
Part(s) of the CM were closed for classified material discussions, testimony, arguments, motions, etc.

We might eventually get a redacted version through FOIA, if someone with clout pushes hard enough. But I'm not holding my breath.

Right. I forgot about the Seal Team 6 member testimony etc. I don't think the classified testimony would add to any picture other than the prosecution's use of it to illustrate damage done by the leaks.