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View Full Version : Oklahoma teens kill Austrailian, just for fun. Murder 1 or Manslaughter??



garhkal
08-21-2013, 03:15 AM
Saw on the ticker for most news channels a story about an Australian Baseball player here at college, killed by 3 Teens in Oklahoma (Duncan), just for fun in a "random act of violence"

Would this be manslaughter or murder?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/20/justice/australia-student-killed-oklahoma/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

imnohero
08-21-2013, 03:32 AM
Well, with the statement by one of the shooters of "we were going to kill somebody." That indicates premediation, so murder seems like the appropriate charge.

efmbman
08-21-2013, 11:19 AM
Without a doubt, murder. How could it possibly be anything else? No one involved was "standing his ground".

TJMAC77SP
08-21-2013, 03:54 PM
There was a similar case in Panama City around 1994. Three youths, according to their own statements, out to kill someone. Came across a stop-n-rob clerk sweeping the parking lot. Stopped the car, two shot and killed him and they drove off (the third was the driver). One ended up being the son of a Tyndall AFB MSgt. I had met the young man shortly before the killing in federal magistrate court. He had been cited for driving with a suspended license. They were Homestead AFB refugees moved as a result of Hurricane Andrew. The mother (again an AF AD MSgt) testified that her son's license had been suspended because he had missed school and the reason he had missed school was the sudden move. Magistrate bought this and dismissed the citation. I didn't buy the story and when he was arrested I made some calls and found out the license was suspended becuause he had active felony warrants in Dade County. The MSgt's CC was most interested in her false testimony. My hope is that he is still sitting in Stark and his mom, the civiian without a military pension is the one visiting him.

Pullinteeth
08-21-2013, 05:33 PM
Saw on the ticker for most news channels a story about an Australian Baseball player here at college, killed by 3 Teens in Oklahoma (Duncan), just for fun in a "random act of violence"

Would this be manslaughter or murder?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/20/justice/australia-student-killed-oklahoma/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Two were charged with capital murder (as adults). Is the question whether they should charge minors as adults? Personally, when I saw that only two were charged with felony murder, I wondered if the two that were charged with it were the two black teens? I was always under the impression that if you were the driver, you were just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger-if you knew that was what was going on... Have to wonder if the driver made a deal?

imported_WILDJOKER5
08-21-2013, 06:46 PM
Two were charged with capital murder (as adults). Is the question whether they should charge minors as adults? Personally, when I saw that only two were charged with felony murder, I wondered if the two that were charged with it were the two black teens? I was always under the impression that if you were the driver, you were just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger-if you knew that was what was going on... Have to wonder if the driver made a deal?http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/20/these-are-the-three-teens-arrested-and-suspected-of-murdering-student-chris-lane-for-the-fun-of-it/

All three are being charged as adults. But since the driver didnt pull the trigger, hes not up for murder. I think this shows how diverse America is becoming...3 teens, one black, one white-black (or is it black-white), and a white kid going around comitting murder together. See, we are post racial now.

Pullinteeth
08-21-2013, 07:12 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/20/these-are-the-three-teens-arrested-and-suspected-of-murdering-student-chris-lane-for-the-fun-of-it/

All three are being charged as adults. But since the driver didnt pull the trigger, hes not up for murder. I think this shows how diverse America is becoming...3 teens, one black, one white-black (or is it black-white), and a white kid going around comitting murder together. See, we are post racial now.

So...yeah, the white suspect is the only one not charged with murder... Apparently one confessed to his dad (though apparently his dad doesn't speak english);

Father of suspect James Edwards told KSWO-TV his son must be innocent because his son told him, “I didn’t have nothing to do with it.”

Class5Kayaker
08-21-2013, 07:40 PM
So...yeah, the white suspect is the only one not charged with murder... Apparently one confessed to his dad (though apparently his dad doesn't speak english);

Father of suspect James Edwards told KSWO-TV his son must be innocent because his son told him, “I didn’t have nothing to do with it.”

LOL...kid was telling the truth!

Greg
08-21-2013, 07:42 PM
So...yeah, the white suspect is the only one not charged with murder... Apparently one confessed to his dad (though apparently his dad doesn't speak english);

Father of suspect James Edwards told KSWO-TV his son must be innocent because his son told him, “I didn’t have nothing to do with it.”

"'I feel that it doesn't really matter, that he doesn't really understand it at all. He don't know, he really doesn't understand how serious it is,' proclaimed Edwards.

Hicks believes each suspect has been given the appropriate charge for their role in the crime, especially Edwards who has displayed no remorse for his actions.

'He was doing what we refer to as a little dance and turning circles and kind of laughing and carrying on. As he was being processed into the Stephens County jail on murder one charge (like it was a joke) it was just a great big joke to him,' said Hicks.

Another fact revealed in court today is that the younger Edwards actually made a court appearance at the Stephens County Courthouse on a separate offense at 3:30 on Friday, the day of the murder, barely 30 minutes after the shooting was reported by witnesses."

Clueless. Absolutely clueless.

http://www.kswo.com/story/23201502/duncan-homicide-suspects-in-court

garhkal
08-21-2013, 07:50 PM
Two were charged with capital murder (as adults). Is the question whether they should charge minors as adults? Personally, when I saw that only two were charged with felony murder, I wondered if the two that were charged with it were the two black teens? I was always under the impression that if you were the driver, you were just as guilty as if you pulled the trigger-if you knew that was what was going on... Have to wonder if the driver made a deal?

He must have.. But he is still getting charged with being the driver and being an accomplice.

imnohero
08-21-2013, 08:17 PM
From the blaze article:


James Edwards, 15, and Chancey Luna, 16, were reportedly charged with first degree murder and face life in prison if convicted. They are being held without bond.
Michael Jones, 17, was reportedly charged with using a vehicle to facilitate the discharge of a weapon and accessory after the fact of murder in the first degree.

And the kswo story


Luna and Edwards, Jr. both charged with murder in the first degree, held without bond, facing up to life in prison. Jones was charged as a youthful offender on lesser counts but, still being held on one million dollars bond.

So Jones was driving, Edwards and Luna were the shooters, it looks like. Other versions conflict as say all three were charged as adults? The news has a little catching up to do, I think, since it doesn't seem to be consistent. The driver gets lesser charge probably only because he didn't actually shoot the gun(s).

Unless this stays in the media, I expect they will all plead out for less jail time or some kind of deal.

efmbman
08-21-2013, 09:49 PM
Unless this stays in the media, I expect they will all plead out for less jail time or some kind of deal.

I suspect that will happen. The players in this case are all the wrong race for it to be in the news for more than a few days.

Silverback
08-21-2013, 10:07 PM
Saw on the ticker for most news channels a story about an Australian Baseball player here at college, killed by 3 Teens in Oklahoma (Duncan), just for fun in a "random act of violence"

Would this be manslaughter or murder?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/20/justice/australia-student-killed-oklahoma/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

This is just cold blooded. This is absolutely murder. Manslaughter would be for example if someone ran red light and killed someone with their vehicle. In the case of these three teens, it was all premeditated. They absolutely should be tried as adults. I can't stand when a teenager breaks the law and then acts like they don't know right from wrong.

efmbman
08-21-2013, 10:56 PM
Ain't happening...a cold-blooded random killing is just about the worst kind of murder...ceptin maybe children or something.

Maybe they plead out to avoid the death penalty or something, or maybe the driver can get less...but the triggerman ain't never seeing the light of day again.

I hope you are right. Time will tell. If they are incarcerated for a long time they will certainly get an special kind of education while locked up. Either way, a damn shame.

imported_WILDJOKER5
08-22-2013, 11:15 AM
I want Al Sharpton charged in this for inciting the murder and violence towards whites. This kid actually tweeted about how he "knocked out 5 'woods' since zimmerman verdict". If anyone deserves to be charge with a "hate" crime, its sharpton. Obama and Holder should be thrown in there too for fanning the flames.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/21/hate-them-heres-what-teen-accused-of-murdering-australian-student-had-to-say-about-white-people-guns-and-killing-on-twitter/

Greg
08-22-2013, 11:49 AM
Log rolling, that is what minorities from on side of town like to brag they do when going to the non-minority side of town.

Pullinteeth
08-22-2013, 01:50 PM
Ain't happening...a cold-blooded random killing is just about the worst kind of murder...ceptin maybe children or something.

Maybe they plead out to avoid the death penalty or something, or maybe the driver can get less...but the triggerman ain't never seeing the light of day again.

Channeling your inner Rainmaker?

garhkal
08-22-2013, 07:04 PM
I suspect that will happen. The players in this case are all the wrong race for it to be in the news for more than a few days.

Was actually surprised Ref jackson had a snippet on it... But i also disagree it will 'go away in a few days'.


I want Al Sharpton charged in this for inciting the murder and violence towards whites. This kid actually tweeted about how he "knocked out 5 'woods' since zimmerman verdict". If anyone deserves to be charge with a "hate" crime, its sharpton. Obama and Holder should be thrown in there too for fanning the flames.

When i heard that, i was like WTF.. IMO he should have his crimes shifted up to a hate crime.

Rusty Jones
08-22-2013, 07:13 PM
I want Al Sharpton charged in this for inciting the murder and violence towards whites. This kid actually tweeted about how he "knocked out 5 'woods' since zimmerman verdict". If anyone deserves to be charge with a "hate" crime, its sharpton. Obama and Holder should be thrown in there too for fanning the flames.

This is your emotions speaking. There's always been Team Martin and Team Zimmerman. And any high profile black person who is Team Martin; you want charged with a "hate crime" - even though nothing they said advocated violence or any retaliatory behavior towards whites.

oldgrndr@
08-22-2013, 07:35 PM
Based on the few snippets that I've heard this is murder, not homicide. And it sounds like a special circumstances one as a hate crime. The other thing this smells of is possible gang initiation. But I'm only as current and well versed as walking by an office with the news rolling or car radio.

oldgrndr@
08-22-2013, 07:54 PM
It can not be murder without being homicide.

All murders are homicides.

You are correct sir. I meant to say manslaughter instead of homicide.

imported_WILDJOKER5
08-23-2013, 05:56 PM
This is your emotions speaking. There's always been Team Martin and Team Zimmerman. And any high profile black person who is Team Martin; you want charged with a "hate crime" - even though nothing they said advocated violence or any retaliatory behavior towards whites.

Actually, since GZ is NOT white and blaming it on whites gets blacks very emotionally charged up on more than one occasion, yeah, they advocate violence when they make it a white/black thing when it never really was.

Would you say the person back in the days of the KKK was responsible for a lynching of a black person, or several blacks, just because they may have said "black man raped white woman". Just because these beatings, muggings, and MURDERS arent centralized around a single leader or associated with an FBI terror watch list, doesnt mean those that use race to get people emotionally involved shouldnt be held responsible for their nationally telivised words with absolutely no evidence to back them up?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/21/hate-them-heres-what-teen-accused-of-murdering-australian-student-had-to-say-about-white-people-guns-and-killing-on-twitter/

And when he knows he is talking to people like this, he knew full well what the consequences were going to be when GZ was aquitted.

AJBIGJ
08-23-2013, 10:55 PM
Where is the NRA supporting these kids' right to carry?

Silence...

Were the teens legally carrying? Pretty sure that's a big sticking point with the NRA at the very least.

AJBIGJ
08-24-2013, 12:47 AM
I believe the age limit, at least to purchase firearms is 21. The NRA has filed suit before to remove the age restriction.

But, seriously, I was being facetious...

I figured, but I was curious whether you'd play it out to a great extent.

garhkal
08-24-2013, 02:23 AM
Well, the oldest is what 17, so legally he could not get a gun anyway. Ergo there is no need for the NRA (or other orgs) to step up to say "their right to bear arms is being infringed" etc..

But one wonders where they GOT their guns from?

oldgrndr@
08-26-2013, 01:22 AM
I believe the age limit, at least to purchase firearms is 21. The NRA has filed suit before to remove the age restriction.

But, seriously, I was being facetious...

The legal age varies by firearm type. 18 for a rifle and 21 for a hand gun. At least in my state it does.

garhkal
08-26-2013, 05:38 AM
Trying to remember which state it was, but while in someone said his home state allows 15 and older to get rifles with parental sign off, 18 for shotguns and 21 for pistols.
No idea why its easier to get a rifle (which can kill you further out) than it is a pistol.

imported_WILDJOKER5
08-26-2013, 06:10 PM
Trying to remember which state it was, but while in someone said his home state allows 15 and older to get rifles with parental sign off, 18 for shotguns and 21 for pistols.
No idea why its easier to get a rifle (which can kill you further out) than it is a pistol.

Cause you can take a pistol to school easier and show off compared to bringing in a rifle.

grimreaper
08-26-2013, 07:19 PM
Cause you can take a pistol to school easier and show off compared to bringing in a rifle.

Not to mention that shotguns and rifles are used for hunting and putting ridiculous age restrictions on rifles and shotguns would be harming a family's ability to provide for themselves in many locations.