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Absinthe Anecdote
08-15-2013, 07:35 PM
I've only read about these ceremonies and I'm curious what people think of them.

Are they a time honored tradition or are they just dumb morale boosting fun?

Seems like in this day and age it could be considered hazing.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Crossing_the_Line_Ceremony%2C_USS_Blue_Ridge_%28LC C_19%29_on_16_May_2008.JPG/800px-Crossing_the_Line_Ceremony%2C_USS_Blue_Ridge_%28LC C_19%29_on_16_May_2008.JPG

BURAWSKI
08-15-2013, 07:49 PM
They are NOT hazing. It is a time-honored tradition. A right of passage. People today call it hazing though.

Stalwart
08-15-2013, 08:55 PM
They are tradition, filled with a lot of morale boosting (allowing steam to blow off) fun.

Not every crossing the line ceremony involves hazing, but if things are allowed to get out of control, hazing can (and chances are at some point will) occur.

Yes, some of the things that used to be done have been phased out, some call it PC, some call it micromanagement ... it is really just acknowledging that times and people change.

USN - Retired
08-15-2013, 10:33 PM
I went through the equator crossing ceremony (aka shellback initiation) on the USS Belleau Wood on October 7, 2002. It was stupid. It was unprofessional. It was a big waste of time. And it definitely was hazing.

The shellback certificate is nice though.

BURAWSKI
08-16-2013, 01:59 AM
I went through the equator crossing ceremony (aka shellback initiation) on the USS Belleau Wood on October 7, 2002. It was stupid. It was unprofessional. It was a big waste of time. And it definitely was hazing.

The shellback certificate is nice though.

Well, that's one opinion...

Greg
08-16-2013, 02:07 AM
Well, that's one opinion...

I'll wager he didn't enjoy kissing King Neptune's belly, coated in 90w.

RobotChicken
08-16-2013, 03:02 AM
I'll wager he didn't enjoy kissing King Neptune's belly, coated in 90w.

" A 'non-hacker' wuss."

RobotChicken
08-16-2013, 03:10 AM
They are NOT hazing. It is a time-honored tradition. A right of passage. People today call it hazing though.

"I'll try to copy and post my fathers he was awarded steaming (yea, real steam) enroute to Guadalcanal aug '42. Non hacking PC Navy today; following AF's tradition on destroying traditions."

Vrake
08-16-2013, 03:26 AM
"I'll try to copy and post my fathers he was awarded steaming (yea, real steam) enroute to Guadalcanal aug '42. Non hacking PC Navy today; following AF's tradition on destroying traditions."


Wow under steam to Guadalcanal is cool/scary... Nothing like being to slow to get out of your own way. The Slot, iron bottom sound and Henderson field are just a few names that come to mind.

(Side note Mr Chicken, we destroy our own traditions since they are our own. No service wants it but it is just a reflection of the everyone gets a trophy society. I won't/wouldn't throw rocks at another service for being first cause no one can claim that other then our honored senior service the Army :) )

*edit and no one knows their own branch like the ones in it.

RobotChicken
08-16-2013, 04:12 AM
Wow under steam to Guadalcanal is cool/scary... Nothing like being to slow to get out of your own way. The Slot, iron bottom sound and Henderson field are just a few names that come to mind.

(Side note Mr Chicken, we destroy our own traditions since they are our own. No service wants it but it is just a reflection of the everyone gets a trophy society. I won't/wouldn't throw rocks at another service for being first cause no one can claim that other then our honored senior service the Army :) )

*edit and no one knows their own branch like the ones in it.

"1 November, 1794; USS Constitution was laid down, 21 October, 1797 is launched! Still serving Proudly in our US NAVY!! Lets sea something beat that in America!!" 'RC'.

Mjölnir
08-16-2013, 05:26 AM
Let's keep in mind this is not a bash the other services thread.

RobotChicken
08-16-2013, 05:31 AM
Let's keep in mind this is not a bash the other services thread.

"Truth hurts." (doesn't it?)

RobotChicken
08-16-2013, 05:41 AM
Let's keep in mind this is not a bash the other services thread.

"Not familiar with 'inter-service rivialies? NOW that is a TRADITION that is Not going away!"

Max Power
08-16-2013, 05:43 AM
Let's keep in mind this is not a bash the other services thread.

Seriously? It wasn't even remotely bad. It was more of a joke about the long standing Air Force tradition of destroying Air Force tradition.

RobotChicken
08-16-2013, 06:45 AM
Seriously? It wasn't even remotely bad. It was more of a joke about the long standing Air Force tradition of destroying Air Force tradition.

"Post #8 did me in!"

imported_WINTHORP1
08-16-2013, 09:38 AM
I've always enjoyed the crossing the line ceremonies that I've done. Some were a little crazier than others, but still a great tradition. I don't really like the long hours of cleaning up afterwards though.

RobotChicken
08-16-2013, 09:51 AM
I've always enjoyed the crossing the line ceremonies that I've done. Some were a little crazier than others, but still a great tradition. I don't really like the long hours of cleaning up afterwards though.

"Yea, especially a flight deck! Been there, done that!!" (to you non Navy types out there; it is a really big airport on a ship with hangers and housing for 6,000 folks with a golf course overlooking the ocean! Off the fantail that is, and free green fees!)

Pullinteeth
08-16-2013, 02:01 PM
I've only read about these ceremonies and I'm curious what people think of them.

Are they a time honored tradition or are they just dumb morale boosting fun?

Seems like in this day and age it could be considered hazing.

Absolutely they are hazing....they are also sexual assault so everyone in the Navy that has ever participated should immediately be kicked out under the zero tolerence policy....

Mjölnir
08-16-2013, 02:03 PM
"Post #8 did me in!"

Actually it was #7.

Mjölnir
08-16-2013, 02:04 PM
Nice photo Max, get one from my good side next time. :)

Salty Old Dog
09-13-2013, 02:30 PM
"I'll try to copy and post my fathers he was awarded steaming (yea, real steam) enroute to Guadalcanal aug '42."

Um, today's nuke ships still use steam. Real steam, even! ;)

The ceremonies today, I'd wager, are a pale comparison to what I went through in 82, on board the USS Enterprise. They're only hazing to the politically correct wusses who can't handle it. :usa2

Chief Bosun
09-16-2013, 01:30 PM
Pretty much anything today can be considered hazing depending on the context.

Some things actually do need to be reworked as folks take them to extremes. Two cases in point - pining your Dolphins on by punching you in the chest while you are wearing them (without the backs on) and tacking on the crow of someone who just made rate.

Some - well the babies simply need to grow up instead of whining because their feelings were hurt.

Pullinteeth
09-16-2013, 03:53 PM
Pretty much anything today can be considered hazing depending on the context.

Some things actually do need to be reworked as folks take them to extremes. Two cases in point - pining your Dolphins on by punching you in the chest while you are wearing them (without the backs on) and tacking on the crow of someone who just made rate.

Some - well the babies simply need to grow up instead of whining because their feelings were hurt.

One thing you are failing to factor in is that sometimes it isn't even the person being subjected to the hazing that whines about it... It is an observer that is butt-hurt FOR them.

garhkal
09-16-2013, 10:09 PM
Exactly.. Had one lass who got her crow's tacked on who had NO issue with it. But yet another lass watching reported it as hazing.

Chief Bosun
09-17-2013, 12:20 PM
One thing you are failing to factor in is that sometimes it isn't even the person being subjected to the hazing that whines about it... It is an observer that is butt-hurt FOR them.

Au contraire shipmate.

I am quite aware that it many times is a person that is totally outside the conversation, event, etc., that has the issue. In fact, when the PC crowd first reared it's ugly head the Navy leadership at the time made it clear that it was immaterial if the person was part of the conversation, event, etc.

For example, I have a private conversation with you in an office. The talk gets a little salty, but you and I know each other well and take no offense at the comments.

Sammy or Susie Sailor, who just so happens to be (insert your choice of ethnic background, choice of intimate companionship, etc., here) walks by and hears us talk. They have no business eavesdropping on the conversation. They don't like what's said, they need to move on. Instead, they holler we harrassed them when we were not even talking to them or about them.

TJMAC77SP
09-17-2013, 01:18 PM
"1 November, 1794; USS Constitution was laid down, 21 October, 1797 is launched! Still serving Proudly in our US NAVY!! Lets sea something beat that in America!!" 'RC'.

First American Regiment (Now known as the Third Infantry Regiment) first organized in 1784.

Stalwart
09-17-2013, 01:51 PM
Sammy or Susie Sailor, who just so happens to be (insert your choice of ethnic background, choice of intimate companionship, etc., here) walks by and hears us talk. They have no business eavesdropping on the conversation. They don't like what's said, they need to move on. Instead, they holler we harrassed them when we were not even talking to them or about them.

The reality is, a workplace is a common area and today in a workplace there is some language, conversations & jokes that if there is a chance someone else will hear it and be offended by it ... you are wrong even if they are not part of your conversation.

Pullinteeth
09-17-2013, 07:12 PM
Yes, this is true. One time, I was a shop chief and happened to be talking to an Airman who made some mention of his arm being sore or something.

I inquired further and he took off his BDU top to show me a huge bruise he had on his arm...he'd had his SrA stripes tacked on the day before...he'd was laughing and thought it was kind of funny/cool that he went throught this.

I did not...and issued all involved a letter of reprimand....I can be kind of a whiner that way.

So without knowing where he got the bruise, you punished those in your shop? How do you know he didn't get the bruise from the other dorm rats? Not saying you were wrong but....

Chief Bosun
09-19-2013, 01:24 PM
The reality is, a workplace is a common area and today in a workplace there is some language, conversations & jokes that if there is a chance someone else will hear it and be offended by it ... you are wrong even if they are not part of your conversation.

Quite true, and that is why it is important to ensure you do not indulge in that sort of thing, especially if you are the person in charge. After all, you are supposed to set the example.

Stalwart
10-12-2013, 03:37 PM
Exactly.. Had one lass who got her crow's tacked on who had NO issue with it. But yet another lass watching reported it as hazing.

But as far as 'tradition' goes, tacking on a crow initially involved a newly-promoted Sailor's fellow petty officers taking turns stitching the new rank on his uniform (the rushed needlework referred to as tacking) only in the latter half of the 20th century did this become physically tacking either as a soft tap or an aggressive punch. If we would like to get back to tradition, everyone should start learning how to sew.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-12-2013, 04:03 PM
I've seen the tacking on of stripes go too far too many times. Back in the 80's I saw guys get their stripes tacked on by as many as 20 to 30 people with the majority of those hits being solid punches.

I even had my A1C stripes tacked on in this manner, I laughed about it at the time, but it is sophomoric bullshit and doesn't bring anything like camaraderie to a unit. You can build camaraderie without frat boy style antics.

AJBIGJ
10-12-2013, 04:07 PM
As far as the crossing the line ceremonies go, whether they are currently perceived as "hazing" or not, the good news is, a person can always opt out, at least this has been the case for the last decade or so, I can't remember if it was or not when I did it in 1999.

Greg
10-12-2013, 04:20 PM
But as far as 'tradition' goes, tacking on a crow initially involved a newly-promoted Sailor's fellow petty officers taking turns stitching the new rank on his uniform (the rushed needlework referred to as tacking) only in the latter half of the 20th century did this become physically tacking either as a soft tap or an aggressive punch. If we would like to get back to tradition, everyone should start learning how to sew.

Not a problem. Flat stitch, round stitch, herringbone stitch, and baseball stitch. I worked in the sail locker, on occasion. Even worked some macrame curtains for the CO's captain's gig.

Greg
10-12-2013, 04:23 PM
As far as the crossing the line ceremonies go, whether they are currently perceived as "hazing" or not, the good news is, a person can always opt out, at least this has been the case for the last decade or so, I can't remember if it was or not when I did it in 1999.

In the late '70's, and early '80's, you could opt-out, but the peer pressure was pretty intense.

Stalwart
10-12-2013, 04:31 PM
I've seen the tacking on of stripes go too far too many times. Back in the 80's I saw guys get their stripes tacked on by as many as 20 to 30 people with the majority of those hits being solid punches.

I even had my A1C stripes tacked on in this manner, I laughed about it at the time, but it is sophomoric bullshit and doesn't bring anything like camaraderie to a unit. You can build camaraderie without frat boy style antics.

I am not really a small guy, I stand 6'2" and since high school have weighed between 205 and 215 lbs and never participated in that stuff. I had one person, a Sgt, who walked up and tacked on my chevrons when I was promoted to Cpl. Before he could try to pin on the blood stripe I planted a very solid punch to his chin. I was called down to talk to my 1stSgt the next day who asked what happened, I told him and the 1stSgt said my story lined up with the other folks he had talked to, he chuckled and sent me on my way.


As far as the crossing the line ceremonies go, whether they are currently perceived as "hazing" or not, the good news is, a person can always opt out, at least this has been the case for the last decade or so, I can't remember if it was or not when I did it in 1999.

I did my Emerald Shellback in 1994, so probably after some clamping down on things came around. I didn't think anything was hard, but sophomoric ... absolutely. Since then I have seen several ceremonies done with the right mix of antics but respect for folks dignity ... it is mostly a chance to blow off steam and have fun while underway, there really is nothing to be learned or gained from just turning it into a chance to haze someone for a couple hours.


Not a problem. Flat stitch, round stitch, herringbone stitch, and baseball stitch. I worked in the sail locker, on occasion. Even worked some macrame curtains for the CO's captain's gig.

Macramé ... wow. I would imagine you were able to use that for some $$$ underway as well.

Greg
10-12-2013, 04:39 PM
Macramé ... wow. I would imagine you were able to use that for some $$$ underway as well.

I had no problem showing, and helping, others with their fancy work. After all, I had an Ashleys.* As far as doing some for a few bucks? Nah, too much of a hard-ass. If they wanted to wear fouled anchors, they did their own work!

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashley_Book_of_Knots

Absinthe Anecdote
10-12-2013, 04:40 PM
In the late '70's, and early '80's, you could opt-out, but the peer pressure was pretty intense.

They did an episode of JAG about this, shitty TV program, but it had Catherine Bell in every episode. The military would be so much better if all the females were like Catherine Bell.

All the stupid problems like hazing and sexual harassment would vanish if we had tens of thousands of Catherine Bells walking around in uniform.

Of course all the men should look like the handsome guy in the program but I'm not posting a picture of him.

http://im05.thewallpapers.org/photo/31025/catherine_bell_003.jpg

My point is, only let beautiful people enlist and all the ugly problems and bullshit hazing will go away.

RobotChicken
10-12-2013, 05:40 PM
I am not really a small guy, I stand 6'2" and since high school have weighed between 205 and 215 lbs and never participated in that stuff. I had one person, a Sgt, who walked up and tacked on my chevrons when I was promoted to Cpl. Before he could try to pin on the blood stripe I planted a very solid punch to his chin. I was called down to talk to my 1stSgt the next day who asked what happened, I told him and the 1stSgt said my story lined up with the other folks he had talked to, he chuckled and sent me on my way.

:spy "Great 'sea story' SIR!! Marines lost out big time when you went nav! Iraq and the 'stan' would have been swabbed up on a holiday weekend and all troops home in time for turkey dinner a la hoof! Ahhhaaa, the good 'ole days of iron men......" :usaflag:

I did my Emerald Shellback in 1994, so probably after some clamping down on things came around. I didn't think anything was hard, but sophomoric ... absolutely. Since then I have seen several ceremonies done with the right mix of antics but respect for folks dignity ... it is mostly a chance to blow off steam and have fun while underway, there really is nothing to be learned or gained from just turning it into a chance to haze someone for a couple hours.



Macramé ... wow. I would imagine you were able to use that for some $$$ underway as well. Concur..

Stalwart
10-12-2013, 06:14 PM
Concur..

I fought in both Afghanistan and Iraq while still in the Marines and failed to win the war solo. Thanks for the vote of confidence but no one can do it all themselves.

garhkal
10-12-2013, 07:07 PM
But as far as 'tradition' goes, tacking on a crow initially involved a newly-promoted Sailor's fellow petty officers taking turns stitching the new rank on his uniform (the rushed needlework referred to as tacking) only in the latter half of the 20th century did this become physically tacking either as a soft tap or an aggressive punch. If we would like to get back to tradition, everyone should start learning how to sew.

True, it initially started as sewing on the crow, and morphed into punching (or as i like to do, head butt it!)


In the late '70's, and early '80's, you could opt-out, but the peer pressure was pretty intense.

True.. One of the guys in our scope shop on the Frank cable, opted out when our ship crossed the line, and he got "dogged' for weeks afterwards..

Absinthe Anecdote
10-12-2013, 09:43 PM
Just for the record, Catherine Bell doesn't approve of hazing and she thinks it is dumb and adds no value to life in the military.

So please stop hazing each other! Here is another photo of Catherine Bell.http://www.wallpapers.24on.pl/data/media/122/Catherine_Bell_c.jpg

Absinthe Anecdote
10-13-2013, 01:07 AM
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but hazing is absolutely unacceptable in today's military.

Catherine agrees that there is no place for hazing in the military, so please, no hazing!

http://wallpapers.funmunch.com/wallpaper_catherine-bell-wallpaper-023-1600x1200.jpeg?w=1600&h=1200&f=catherine-bell-wallpaper-023.jpg

Greg
10-13-2013, 01:15 AM
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but hazing is absolutely unacceptable in today's military.

Catherine agrees that there is no place for hazing in the military, so please, no hazing!

http://wallpapers.funmunch.com/wallpaper_catherine-bell-wallpaper-023-1600x1200.jpeg?w=1600&h=1200&f=catherine-bell-wallpaper-023.jpg

I'll wager Lilly would also agree.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-13-2013, 01:33 AM
True, it initially started as sewing on the crow, and morphed into punching (or as i like to do, head butt it!)



True.. One of the guys in our scope shop on the Frank cable, opted out when our ship crossed the line, and he got "dogged' for weeks afterwards..

Admittedly, I shouldn't be fucking around in the Navy thread when my knowledge of your jargon is so lacking; because I think the phrase, "on the Frank cable" sounds curiously suggestive and that "scope shop" is where periscopes are repaired.

Speaking of submarines, they did an episode of JAG on a submarine! Try as I might, I couldn't find a picture of Catherine Bell in blue coveralls so here is a picture of her in something more comfortable.

http://www.pubcardenal.es/cumplefamosos/fotos/Catherine_Bell-3.jpg

FUN FACT:

The producers of JAG first pitched the idea for the television series to be set in the Air Force, but Air Force brass turned them down so they made it a Navy show, we also passed on the movie, Top Gun.

I don't mind you guys getting Tom Cruise but we really messed up giving you Catherine Bell.

garhkal
10-13-2013, 05:08 AM
Admittedly, I shouldn't be fucking around in the Navy thread when my knowledge of your jargon is so lacking; because I think the phrase, "on the Frank cable" sounds curiously suggestive and that "scope shop" is where periscopes are repaired..

Yup. the AS-40 Frank cable is a submarine tender, which amongst other things fixes the periscope of subs..

4CECMC
10-15-2013, 10:25 AM
Most rookies and those thin skinned souls would consider it hazing. Us old salts consider and know it to be a time honored tradition. This guy probably sat on the mess decks with his time out card until the sign up list for certificates started wherein he was first in line!

4CECMC
10-15-2013, 10:27 AM
Only a shore based weenie would find such "jargon" curious and imagine such a twist. Makes you wander......

Stalwart
10-17-2013, 06:02 PM
Most rookies and those thin skinned souls would consider it hazing. Us old salts consider and know it to be a time honored tradition. This guy probably sat on the mess decks with his time out card until the sign up list for certificates started wherein he was first in line!

At what point does someone go from being a rookie to an old salt?

It seems that being part of the 'cool club' is less and less about what you know, what you are capable of doing or have actually done, or even if you have 'been there' but more about if you agree with the guys already in the 'cool club' or not.

I have been in USMC Force Recon as well as completed Ranger school, worked in the same detachments & on mission with NSW, Army SOF and the like (never too closely with Air Force SOF), and they seem to be the most quiet professionals I have ever known. Find me the guy who in garrison or at a shore command is the loudest, most obnoxious & foul-mouthed 'tough guy' and he probably physically, tactically and operationally lacks the ability, skill or plain willingness to do the kind of things that get done in those units. Ironically, check the SITREP pages on the CNO's page, very few hazing reports come from NSW or MARSOC ... no coincidence there. It isn't just that it doesn't get reported, the people in those units have already proven themselves.

Go find the retired SeAL who came out as transgendered after he retired. Read about what the guy did when on active duty and call him a rookie or a thin skinned soul, he probably wouldn't drop you to the deck because he is more professional than that. But quite honestly I would take him/her next to me in a firefight over most of the 'tough guys' I see running around the waterfront these days.

Greg
10-17-2013, 06:27 PM
+1. For spelling SeAL, in its traditional form. Sea, Air. Land.

Those guys didn't/don't haze, they just had different ways to have fun.

Duct taping a wet blanket around a rookie, and throwing him in a chest freezer.

Pullinteeth
10-17-2013, 06:30 PM
Only a shore based weenie would find such "jargon" curious and imagine such a twist. Makes you wander......

Hopefully you don't get lost while you are wandering....

Stalwart
10-17-2013, 06:46 PM
+1. For spelling SeAL, in its traditional form. Sea, Air. Land.

Those guys didn't/don't haze, they just had different ways to have fun.

Duct taping a wet blanket around a rookie, and throwing him in a chest freezer.

True, different kinds of fun. At the same time, a command event or function is a different monster than what guys do off site or away from the command. I have been the CFL at 3 different commands, and each time there was an initial fear that I was going to go "Marine" or even "Recon" with the PT or FEP program. Why would I need to? That isn't the standard, it was where I came from but not where I am now. Whether a wog, a SN, a Sailor on FEP etc. I can train you (at this point in my career I am usually approving training plans but can still PT pretty well) without crossing the line between training and hazing. I wrote my ship's crossing the line instruction, which was pretty good. It didn't have some of the stuff we did when I was a wog, but it was fun, people blew off steam and no one got injured or hazed.

The bad part of when fun goes to far and turns into hazing is you jade people's perception of the Navy or the worst thing is actually injuring someone. The Sailor I referenced before who had to have blood drained from his arms after getting his crow tacked was not a superstar nor was he below average, pretty much he was what you expect of a SN who just got picked up for 3rd. In time he may have made 1st Class then Chief. Who knows, he may have gone on to be a CMC. Unfortunately we will never know, before we left for deployment he was medically separated due to a loss of sensation in his arms and hands, related to the incident.

Greg
10-17-2013, 07:09 PM
Yes, there's a large gray area when it comes to hazing. I've heard of a couple of incidents were the person hazed sought retribution while the other(s) were asleep. With that I fault supervision. I was lucky, my first fleet experience was on a Commodore's flag-ship. A real squared away crew, and the three years flew bye. A couple other commands, not so much.

Salty Old Dog
10-25-2013, 07:13 PM
FUN FACT:

The producers of JAG first pitched the idea for the television series to be set in the Air Force, but Air Force brass turned them down so they made it a Navy show, we also passed on the movie, Top Gun.

I don't mind you guys getting Tom Cruise but we really messed up giving you Catherine Bell.

Actually, Catherine Bell's character didn't join the show until the 2nd season. Rabb's partner in the first season was Leiutenant Junior Grade Meg Austin, played by the lovely Tracey Needham. I believe the show started on one network, which cancelled after the first season, and was then picked up by a 2nd network, where it found great success.....but without "Meg", and with the addition of Sarah "Mac" McKenzie.

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0020084/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t16

Catherine Bell also played, during the first season of the show, a young Navy Leiutenant, who was killed. The producers remembered her, when they were casting for a lead female role in the re-do of the series (after the first season), and cast her opposite David James Elliot.

My personal favorite was Petty Officer Jennifer Coates, played by Zoe McLellan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0572721/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t8). :love_heart:
Trust me when I say that there weren't too many Navy gals that looked like her, back in MY day!! LOL
http://images.tvrage.com/cguide/21/726.jpg

Absinthe Anecdote
10-25-2013, 08:43 PM
Actually, Catherine Bell's character didn't join the show until the 2nd season. Rabb's partner in the first season was Leiutenant Junior Grade Meg Austin, played by the lovely Tracey Needham. I believe the show started on one network, which cancelled after the first season, and was then picked up by a 2nd network, where it found great success.....but without "Meg", and with the addition of Sarah "Mac" McKenzie.

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0020084/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t16

Catherine Bell also played, during the first season of the show, a young Navy Leiutenant, who was killed. The producers remembered her, when they were casting for a lead female role in the re-do of the series (after the first season), and cast her opposite David James Elliot.

My personal favorite was Petty Officer Jennifer Coates, played by Zoe McLellan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0572721/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t8). :love_heart:
Trust me when I say that there weren't too many Navy gals that looked like her, back in MY day!! LOL
http://images.tvrage.com/cguide/21/726.jpg

Thanks for the fun facts!

That show was total garbage in terms of being anywhere near reality but totally watchable because of Catherine Bell.

I think the idea of the show must have been inspired by the movie, A Few Good Men, which was based on a broadway play.

I've got to give it to the Navy, you guys are way better at cooperating with Hollywood than the Air Force is.