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View Full Version : Rebuttals to paperwork



Shaken1976
08-13-2013, 04:26 PM
Have you ever thrown out paperwork because of a damn good rebuttal?

I have a few times. However, usually before I write paperwork I talk to them and figure out their side of the story. I usually know it is going to stick before I write the paperwork.

technomage1
08-13-2013, 04:39 PM
I always talk to them to find out their side of the story. So often this does not happen and guilt is presumed.

Pullinteeth
08-13-2013, 05:03 PM
Never... I have yet to see a good one... I have written a few though. I had one with character references, witness statements, everything... Didn't do a bit of good...

js7799
08-13-2013, 05:12 PM
The LOR I mentioned in another thread about missing an appointment, on that rebuttal I took the three days to make sure I wrote a good one. No dice, it stayed in my PIF. I've seen a couple of good ones written in response to paperwork I've written, but they didn't persuade me to drop the paperwork.

20+Years
08-13-2013, 05:55 PM
The only thing I expect to see on a rebuttal to paperwork I give is the member accepting responsibility for the action, saying they will never do it again, and thanking me for taking my time to correct them. If its outside of that, they are wasting thier time.

Shaken1976
08-13-2013, 06:13 PM
The only thing I expect to see on a rebuttal to paperwork I give is the member accepting responsibility for the action, saying they will never do it again, and thanking me for taking my time to correct them. If its outside of that, they are wasting thier time.

As an NCOIC I had an LOC come across my desk written by one of the SSgts. He wrote two people up for not completing a task assigned to them in a sufficient manner of time. The only issue was that while one person that he assigned the task to was at work and able to do the task. The other person was in the hospital and obviously unable to do the task. He felt that in fairness he had to write both people paperwork. I had been on leave and didn't know what was going on until I saw the paperwork and started to investigate. Had that individual just apologized for not completing the task, promised it wouldn't happen again, and thanked the supervisor for taking the time to correct them I would have never known of the issue with my SSgt not knowing how to investigate issues on his own. He knew why the one individual didn't finish the task. Fairness was not practiced as he thought.

20+Years
08-13-2013, 06:25 PM
As my comment above was mostly sarcasm, the dude in your story made himself look like a douche. When I write an LOC/LOR, I know, and the member knows its deserved. Thankfully, my cases have been clear cut. #1. I walked out of my office door right as one of the shop Airmen flipped off his supervisor behind his back as he was walking away. #2. Shirt found one of the Airmen asleep in his car, keys in hand, unresponsive on a Sunday morning. Had to get the ambulance to respond. I guess there may have been some insignificant ones over the years too, but nothing that jumps to mind.

sharkhunter
08-13-2013, 10:29 PM
I've only had one LOC been thrown out in my 10 year career and it was simply because my supervisor was in the complete wrong.

He was trying to make me come into work to fix my paternity leave paperwork (two days after my daughter was born), but I told I was too exhausted to drive and I'll come in that evening. Yet, he still ordered me to come into work at the moment. Again I said I was too exhausted and I'll come in later. Well, later on that evening, I got a very nasty text message ordering me to report to work the next morning from my supervisor.
The next morning I found out that my paperwork was indeed correct, but he didn't bother to route the paperwork up the chain. He gave me a very long demoralizing one on one session. His main comments were "I've never taken paternity leave before, so I don't know the process and you didn't tell me anything other than leaving paperwork with a routing slip on my desk. If you were expecting me to take care of you on this, you are wrong. As for the too exhausted to drive...that's no excuse...here's your LOC for failing to report to duty. You're lucky it's not an LOR."

I took it straight to my shirt. I've never seen someone actually turn red out of anger before in my life until that day. After he read it, he basically looked at me and said "this didn't exist, go be with your family. I'll take care of this and your leave." Last I saw was him marching straight to the CC's office.

Mr. Happy
08-13-2013, 11:05 PM
I just did recently on a TSgt. I was briefed he was 2 hours late to work and the section chief called him to only find out he was still sleeping. The TSgt didn't provide any details as to why, and maybe the MSgt didn't dig a little deeper to find out. This guy is far from a star performer, and he had other lapses recently, so our Captain told the MSgt he expected paperwork (which I actually agreed with at the time). Come to find out once I read his rebuttal, he was dealing with a life or death situation with his wife's mother who lives in Europe late into the night and morning hours over the phone; the wife was over there at the time and extremely upset obviously.

After I read it, I told the MSgt to shred it. Not sure why he didn't speak up sooner before paperwork was generated, but he's a sort of quiet NCO like that.

VCO
08-14-2013, 09:21 PM
I've only had one LOC been thrown out in my 10 year career and it was simply because my supervisor was in the complete wrong.

He was trying to make me come into work to fix my paternity leave paperwork (two days after my daughter was born), but I told I was too exhausted to drive and I'll come in that evening. Yet, he still ordered me to come into work at the moment. Again I said I was too exhausted and I'll come in later. Well, later on that evening, I got a very nasty text message ordering me to report to work the next morning from my supervisor.
The next morning I found out that my paperwork was indeed correct, but he didn't bother to route the paperwork up the chain. He gave me a very long demoralizing one on one session. His main comments were "I've never taken paternity leave before, so I don't know the process and you didn't tell me anything other than leaving paperwork with a routing slip on my desk. If you were expecting me to take care of you on this, you are wrong. As for the too exhausted to drive...that's no excuse...here's your LOC for failing to report to duty. You're lucky it's not an LOR."

I took it straight to my shirt. I've never seen someone actually turn red out of anger before in my life until that day. After he read it, he basically looked at me and said "this didn't exist, go be with your family. I'll take care of this and your leave." Last I saw was him marching straight to the CC's office.

You were not on leave and you failed to report to duty. That is called AWOL and warrants action. I see why your leadership is trying to give you the boot.