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Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 12:04 PM
You are stationed at Lackland. You are walking towards a building when you see a few basic trainees come out and forget to put on their cover. Do you say something? or keep going and figure a TI will catch it? I see it quite a bit and generally just tap my head and say cover. Simple and quick.

What if you see trainees doing something stupid or something you know isn't allowed and there isn't a TI around...are you going to call them on it? I have found that I typically don't have to say anything because I can kind of just make my presence known with a cough and they stop whatever they are doing.


With the current climate in basic training it seems many active duty are afraid to even look at a trainee or tell them congrats when they graduate. TI's aren't always around them and they get stupid sometimes when they aren't around. One of the NCO's in my squadron witnessed two of them shoving each other as they marched. He just kept going because he was afraid to say something. I think it is a sad state of affairs here. I remember in basic one of my flight members and I were walking back from the clinic and were out of step and a TSgt stopped his car a little ahead of us and told us to get in step.

RobotChicken
08-08-2013, 12:12 PM
"The 'Campus' way is here to stay; get used to it."

imported_WILDJOKER5
08-08-2013, 12:20 PM
Take a 341. It is everyones job to mold the next generation of Airmen. You cant ignore someone doing something out of regs just because you are not in direct chain of command.

technomage1
08-08-2013, 12:30 PM
Take a 341. It is everyones job to mold the next generation of Airmen. You cant ignore someone doing something out of regs just because you are not in direct chain of command.

Or a good old fashioned butt chewing always works too. Our flight got thoroughly chewed out by a female MSgt who stopped her car to do it. Our flight leader almost tripped and wound up doing a Micheal Jacksonesque about face as a result in the intersection when marching us. We couldn't help but to burst out laughing and try as we might we couldn't get it under control.

She chewed us out, we deserved it, took the lesson and moved on.

Sergeant eNYgma
08-08-2013, 12:41 PM
If it's a cover violation I'd do the same as you...won't go TI on them but I'll just say "Hat" or "Cover" somethign to clue them in. If they are outright doing something retarded I WOULD intervene...my thing is as they say you never truly know who is watching and if someone is you want to have been seen doing the right thing...just me.

That said I'm not walking all over Lackland to find violations though.

Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 12:48 PM
If it's a cover violation I'd do the same as you...won't go TI on them but I'll just say "Hat" or "Cover" somethign to clue them in. If they are outright doing something retarded I WOULD intervene...my thing is as they say you never truly know who is watching and if someone is you want to have been seen doing the right thing...just me.

That said I'm not walking all over Lackland to find violations though.

I am not walking all over Lackland to find violations either. I do walk about three miles a day, live on Lackland, and work on Lackland. I do see things. I won't run across the parking lot to correct it or jump out of my car. But if I am close and I see something then I will say something. Thursdays and Fridays and weekends can be bad. I try to stay away as much as I can.

A few weeks ago we were at SeaWorld and I noticed an airman sitting in the splash zone at a show. I told him he might want to move because he would be soaked. He moved and all was good. The person who ended up sitting where he had been was dripping wet within two minutes of the show.

imported_Renazance
08-08-2013, 12:48 PM
Call them out for it. Get em while they're fresh to the AF. If you don't, and no one else does either, then those Airmen will go through the rest of BMT and Tech School without discipline and accountability and may eventually end up in your squadron. They might not be your problem while they're in BMT, but they can possibly end up your problem in the future.

20+Years
08-08-2013, 01:39 PM
Never been stationed there. But... a standard is a standard. I would treat them the same as any other military member I encounter. Tap my head and say "cover". I will remind them of any standard I see being violated, but I'm not going to raise my voice unless its an urgent safety matter.

Being a trainee doesn't mean they need to be yelled at by me to learn. Repetition and knowing the standards are enforced "should be" enough. The rest I'll leave to the T.I.s.

Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 01:45 PM
Never been stationed there. But... a standard is a standard. I would treat them the same as any other military member I encounter. Tap my head and say "cover". I will remind them of any standard I see being violated, but I'm not going to raise my voice unless its an urgent safety matter.

Being a trainee doesn't mean they need to be yelled at by me to learn. Repetition and knowing the standards are enforced "should be" enough. The rest I'll leave to the T.I.s.

I would never yell. That is not my job. I will correct if need be. The way I see it yelling is the TIs job. If I correct and someone gives me a problem I will ask for their flight info.

imported_WILDJOKER5
08-08-2013, 01:49 PM
I would never yell. That is not my job. I will correct if need be. The way I see it yelling is the TIs job. If I correct and someone gives me a problem I will ask for their flight info.

I would yell if they gave me attitude or disrespect. I would probably be pretty smart alec about it all too.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-08-2013, 01:53 PM
Call them out for it. Get em while they're fresh to the AF. If you don't, and no one else does either, then those Airmen will go through the rest of BMT and Tech School without discipline and accountability and may eventually end up in your squadron. They might not be your problem while they're in BMT, but they can possibly end up your problem in the future.

AMEN!

And if you really want to teach them a lesson you should make them put icy hot on their genitals and sexually assault them.

Hmmm, on second thought better just let their TIs take care of it.

Seriously, telling a trainee to put their hat on is just providing them a courtesy. If you aren't part of the BMT staff there is no need to go Full Metal Jacket on some dopey kid at the BX.

Politely correct whatever is wrong and move on. However, if you ever see a trainee sitting in the splash zone at Sea World, say absolutely nothing! That way they can come in here a few years later and write about it.

Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 01:56 PM
AMEN!

And if you really want to teach them a lesson you should make them put icy hot on their genitals and sexually assault them.

Hmmm, on second thought better just let their TIs take care of it.

Seriously, telling a trainee to put their hat on is just providing them a courtesy. If you aren't part of the BMT staff there is no need to go Full Metal Jacket on some dopey kid at the BX.

Politely correct whatever is wrong and move on. However, if you ever see a trainee sitting in the splash zone at Sea World, say absolutely nothing! That way they can come in here a few years later and write about it.

Ehh.. I figure it is better to let them know than to let them return to their squadron smelling like whale poop. Not to mention wet blues would be pretty uncomfortable.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-08-2013, 02:01 PM
Ehh.. I figure it is better to let them know than to let them return to their squadron smelling like whale poop. Not to mention wet blues would be pretty uncomfortable.

I think you are denying them a great story to tell a few years down the road.

I had no idea that the water at those places smells like whale poop! You just made my case stronger!

imported_WILDJOKER5
08-08-2013, 02:07 PM
I think you are denying them a great story to tell a few years down the road.

I had no idea that the water at those places smells like whale poop! You just made my case stronger!

I dont think he gave the order to move, just the observation and mentorship of experience. The Kid moved all on his own, am I right?

Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 02:08 PM
I dont think he gave the order to move, just the observation and mentorship of experience. The Kid moved all on his own, am I right?

You are correct...except on the point that I am a she.

raider8169
08-08-2013, 02:09 PM
Dont people at Lackland get a briefing on interactions with trainees?

Absinthe Anecdote
08-08-2013, 02:10 PM
I dont think he gave the order to move, just the observation and mentorship of experience. The Kid moved all on his own, am I right?

Shaken was just being nice and I'm just being irreverent.

Juggs
08-08-2013, 02:11 PM
Square them away hoping they'll remember there are differing ways to handle situations.

imported_WILDJOKER5
08-08-2013, 02:12 PM
You are correct...except on the point that I am a she.

Sorry, noted. Then they might have been following you as an invitation to sit with you. lol ;)

imported_WILDJOKER5
08-08-2013, 02:14 PM
I was a student at Keesler and while on AFI, I worked with the cops. One night I had my head down and passed right by a major. He said something, I apologized, saluted and changed the way I walked from then on really.

DocBones
08-08-2013, 04:20 PM
AbsintheAnecdote,

You do know that the 'Full Metal Jacket' treatment was pretty much the way things went, in San Diego or Parris Island, at the time, in every platoon, right?

Except for the end of bootcamp, with Private Pyle doing the one gun salute. That would have sucked, big time, if that had happened to all of us loving and caring Drill Instructors. ;)

Smeghead
08-08-2013, 04:45 PM
For me, unless a trainee is about to walk in front of a bus and get squashed I'm not saying crap. I was at Wilford almost every week recently with a shoulder injury. I would walk past the trainees BSing and chilling at the bus stop. They should be studying for their end of course test at times like that. Most instructors would let their flights know that. I ignored it for as long as I could until one day I stopped and said something. They looked at me and went right back to checking their nails and carrying on their conversations.

I left it alone right there. Granted my case is a little different. I wanted to slide back into TI mode but what's point. They know they can get back at NCOs by dropping critique forms. If you reported them to the squadron nothing would be done. If you pulled a 341 it would go in the trash.

Hopefully their "I can do what I want" attitudes are getting squashed in tech school or at the very latest their first duty station.

I heard it said a lot in BMT "no trainee is worth your stripes." If you want to correct them quietly and professionally, then do it. But try going TI unless you're wearing the hat. It's not your job. Even if you are a TI there's trainees out there who just don't care. I was at the BX for lunch one weekend. Ran into a graduated Airman with his family. He had obviously been walking round all day and looked a little frumpy--shirt not tucked in tight, gig line off. Nothing major, just a quick adjust in front of mirror and he'd be good. I told him he might want to find a bathroom and straighten his uniform. No drama, it was in the BX in front of his family. It didn't need to be a yelling scene, I was only a dick when I needed to be.

He gives me a quick "yes Sir" and we're done. Or so I thought. As I walk away, in uniform, campaign hat in hand, Airman Shitbag proceeds to stand proudly in front of his family and flip me off. I didn't see him, but another MTI from my squadron who was there in civvies watched the whole thing. He pulled a 341, nothing came of it. Airman left for tech school the following day and is probably still out there in your Air Force. If they won't take a correction from an MTI what makes you think they'll take one from you?

Juggs
08-08-2013, 04:53 PM
For me, unless a trainee is about to walk in front of a bus and get squashed I'm not saying crap. I was at Wilford almost every week recently with a shoulder injury. I would walk past the trainees BSing and chilling at the bus stop. They should be studying for their end of course test at times like that. Most instructors would let their flights know that. I ignored it for as long as I could until one day I stopped and said something. They looked at me and went right back to checking their nails and carrying on their conversations.

I left it alone right there. Granted my case is a little different. I wanted to slide back into TI mode but what's point. They know they can get back at NCOs by dropping critique forms. If you reported them to the squadron nothing would be done. If you pulled a 341 it would go in the trash.

Hopefully their "I can do what I want" attitudes are getting squashed in tech school or at the very latest their first duty station.

I heard it said a lot in BMT "no trainee is worth your stripes." If you want to correct them quietly and professionally, then do it. But try going TI unless you're wearing the hat. It's not your job. Even if you are a TI there's trainees out there who just don't care. I was at the BX for lunch one weekend. Ran into a graduated Airman with his family. He had obviously been walking round all day and looked a little frumpy--shirt not tucked in tight, gig line off. Nothing major, just a quick adjust in front of mirror and he'd be good. I told him he might want to find a bathroom and straighten his uniform. No drama, it was in the BX in front of his family. It didn't need to be a yelling scene, I was only a dick when I needed to be.

He gives me a quick "yes Sir" and we're done. Or so I thought. As I walk away, in uniform, campaign hat in hand, Airman Shitbag proceeds to stand proudly in front of his family and flip me off. I didn't see him, but another MTI from my squadron who was there in civvies watched the whole thing. He pulled a 341, nothing came of it. Airman left for tech school the following day and is probably still out there in your Air Force. If they won't take a correction from an MTI what makes you think they'll take one from you?


Seem communities are still allowed to utilize push-ups and heavy bags as corrective measures. Those wushu ally fix stupidity.

Smeghead
08-08-2013, 04:56 PM
Seem communities are still allowed to utilize push-ups and heavy bags as corrective measures. Those wushu ally fix stupidity.

If you want to attempt making a trainee push if you're not an MTI, then get ready to deal with some maltreatment charges.

Juggs
08-08-2013, 04:57 PM
If you want to attempt making a trainee push if you're not an MTI, then get ready to deal with some maltreatment charges.

Not in BMT. In tech school it works, and in the CAF it works like a champ.

Smeghead
08-08-2013, 05:02 PM
Not in BMT. In tech school it works, and in the CAF it works like a champ.

Who cares? Tech school and CAF are irrelevant in this case. OP's question was about BMT, Lackland and trainees.

Juggs
08-08-2013, 05:03 PM
Who cares? Tech school and CAF are irrelevant in this case. OP's question was about BMT, Lackland and trainees.

You mentioned hoping they get squared away in tech schools. So you care.

Smeghead
08-08-2013, 05:21 PM
You mentioned hoping they get squared away in tech schools. So you care.

You're reaching, but I'll give it to you. Congrats, you win all teh internets.

BENDER56
08-08-2013, 05:57 PM
This thread is similar to the ones that were pretty common here a couple of years ago about enforcing nit-noid standards at al Udeid.

All I learned from those threads is that there are two polar-opposite attitudes about this. One is: a violation is a violation and one should never walk past without correcting it, although one doesn't have to be a dick about it. The other: not my problem ... and don't you SNCOs have anything better to do than measure my f-ing sock height?

I'm with the correct-the-problem-but-don't-be-a-dick-about-it group. Mostly because I was a 1st Sgt and many people knew I was even when I was out of uniform. The last thing you want to get seen doing as a 1st Sgt is walking by a problem without correcting it. Also, you know damn well the next time the culprit gets caught the first words out of his mouth will be, "...but MSgt Bender saw me do it and he didn't say anything so I figured it was OK." Much easier to do one's job as an NCO and be done with it.

That said, I'm retired now and don't say anything airmen who are out of standards. On a recent flight I sat across the aisle from a female airman in ABUs with a huge, hot-pink Nike gym bag as her carry-on. Hope she was getting greeted by her family at her destination and not her new supervisor. Then again, for all I know, 36-2903 might have been changed to allow that. I'm retired. It literally isn't my job now.

Slyoldawg
08-08-2013, 06:16 PM
From reading these posts it makes it sound like a very different Air Force than when I did my time. In 1955 basic training was 11 weeks. When we completed Basic Training it was off to tech School for most of us. I finished basic in November 1955 and my class in aircraft mechanic school at Sheppard AFB did not start until March of '56. So, it was either pulling squadron details, or joining the Drum & Bugle Corps. I did that as a snare drummer and we had our own barracks with not much supervision and no details, except playing for the march to school of all the troops. We did not have any thoughts of basic training and never paid attention to what other students were doing. The base movie was opened at noon so we saw a lot of movies.

Soon after I arrived at Sheppard Basic Training was reduced from 11 weeks and we started seeing TIs around the base at Sheppard. I suppose basic continued for the new guys even in Tech School after the shortened basic at Lackland. Most TIs were two stripers around that time and I don't remember seeing many of them with more than two stripes.

Once my friend and I were running to the chow hall because it was close to closing off the meals. As we were running a 2 stripe TI yelled at us to stop, so we were curious to see what he wanted and he started to chew our ass for running down the street. We looked at each other with amusement over this clown that had two stripes as we did trying to sound like a bad ass. We told him to just wait there and we would get back to him after lunch and took off running again. After tech school I never saw a basic trainee or TI for the rest of my 26 years. As aircraft mechanics we simply did our jobs and never gave any thought to correcting people for the way they walked, or what they wore. there was always some bad ass MSgt to handle any screw offs and that was none of our business. That worked out well for us keeping our nose out of other folks business.

Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 06:16 PM
For me, unless a trainee is about to walk in front of a bus and get squashed I'm not saying crap. I was at Wilford almost every week recently with a shoulder injury. I would walk past the trainees BSing and chilling at the bus stop. They should be studying for their end of course test at times like that. Most instructors would let their flights know that. I ignored it for as long as I could until one day I stopped and said something. They looked at me and went right back to checking their nails and carrying on their conversations.

I left it alone right there. Granted my case is a little different. I wanted to slide back into TI mode but what's point. They know they can get back at NCOs by dropping critique forms. If you reported them to the squadron nothing would be done. If you pulled a 341 it would go in the trash.

Hopefully their "I can do what I want" attitudes are getting squashed in tech school or at the very latest their first duty station.

I heard it said a lot in BMT "no trainee is worth your stripes." If you want to correct them quietly and professionally, then do it. But try going TI unless you're wearing the hat. It's not your job. Even if you are a TI there's trainees out there who just don't care. I was at the BX for lunch one weekend. Ran into a graduated Airman with his family. He had obviously been walking round all day and looked a little frumpy--shirt not tucked in tight, gig line off. Nothing major, just a quick adjust in front of mirror and he'd be good. I told him he might want to find a bathroom and straighten his uniform. No drama, it was in the BX in front of his family. It didn't need to be a yelling scene, I was only a dick when I needed to be.

He gives me a quick "yes Sir" and we're done. Or so I thought. As I walk away, in uniform, campaign hat in hand, Airman Shitbag proceeds to stand proudly in front of his family and flip me off. I didn't see him, but another MTI from my squadron who was there in civvies watched the whole thing. He pulled a 341, nothing came of it. Airman left for tech school the following day and is probably still out there in your Air Force. If they won't take a correction from an MTI what makes you think they'll take one from you?



I would never be a bitch about it. Like I said..if I notice someone without cover..I would tap my head and say cover. I have seen several little things that I have corrected over my years here. Nothing big. I tried to get to one kid before someone else did...but wasn't quick enough. He walked out of Reid clinic with his hat, jacket, and everything else in his hands, put it all down on the sidewalk and began to dress himself outside. But before I could get to him he was being chewed out by a Captain.

My theory is if I can prevent an ass chewing by someone else I will. Sometimes it is just a simple mistake. I see a lot of them without hats on outside or with hats on inside.

About a week ago I was walking over by the mini mall on the street where they do the Airmens Run. One trainee was swinging his Blues back and forth a little ways ahead of me. By the time I got close to him the jacket had fallen off of its coat hanger and was laying in a heap on the ground. He was standing there staring at it. I bent over picked it up, handed it to him, and told him to be a bit more careful.

AFcynic
08-08-2013, 06:16 PM
As a non-commissioned officer, you make the correction because that is your responsibility. They'll fix it on the spot, and then everyone is happy. Unfortunately, you can't "fix" the individual trainee. Do they know what they are doing is wrong? Absolutely. It's a reflection of their character, and more importantly, who they will become once they are in the operational Air Force.

In the current BMT environment, the inmates are running the asylum, and it's only going to get worse once they arrive at their first duty stations. The trainees are taught to usurp the chain of command via critiques, and before you know it - a career is over, and it isn't the one that is only four weeks old.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-08-2013, 06:20 PM
I once said something to a pregnant female who was wearing a pair of those blinky light Nikes with BDUs.

We were standing in the NSA cafeteria with damn near a hundred or so people around. I told her, "You are obviously on profile and can wear sneakers but those sneakers?"

She gave me big time attitude and I made the time out symbol and said, "If you want proof that those are a poor choice of sneakers to wear in uniform just take a look at that table of Marines over there laughing at the both of us."

I rarely would say something to airmen that weren't in my shop but I was the kind of sergeant that kept a shoeshine kit in my desk and would routinely make people polish nasty looking boots before leaving my section.

Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 06:21 PM
As a non-commissioned officer, you make the correction because that is your responsibility. They'll fix it on the spot, and then everyone is happy. Unfortunately, you can't "fix" the individual trainee. Do they know what they are doing is wrong? Absolutely. It's a reflection of their character, and more importantly, who they will become once they are in the operational Air Force.

In the current BMT environment, the inmates are running the asylum, and it's only going to get worse once they arrive at their first duty stations. The trainees are taught to usurp the chain of command via critiques, and before you know it - a career is over, and it isn't the one that is only four weeks old.

I think they should fit all TIs with the GoPro cameras. Then when a trainee says TSgt so n so said this to me....leadership can go back and view the footage and say...no...you are stupid.

Smeghead
08-08-2013, 07:22 PM
As a non-commissioned officer, you make the correction because that is your responsibility. They'll fix it on the spot, and then everyone is happy. Unfortunately, you can't "fix" the individual trainee. Do they know what they are doing is wrong? Absolutely. It's a reflection of their character, and more importantly, who they will become once they are in the operational Air Force.

In the current BMT environment, the inmates are running the asylum, and it's only going to get worse once they arrive at their first duty stations. The trainees are taught to usurp the chain of command via critiques, and before you know it - a career is over, and it isn't the one that is only four weeks old.

This x 1,000,000.

I'm guessing you're there pushing now.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-08-2013, 07:34 PM
This x 1,000,000.

I'm guessing you're there pushing now.

You poor bastards, what a bleak and terrible picture you are painting! You need some cheering up, watch this video about the Pentagon, I promise it will make you smile.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiEYWvW3cMY

Roto
08-09-2013, 05:50 PM
I think they should fit all TIs with the GoPro cameras. Then when a trainee says TSgt so n so said this to me....leadership can go back and view the footage and say...no...you are stupid.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. I'd be in full support of it.

DocBones
08-10-2013, 04:20 PM
Shaken, I do believe that all of the TIs should wear those Google Glasses, with the biggest ugliest frames that they can be fitted with. That would give all of the trainees something to kind of laugh at, privately, and also for the trainees to be really minding their Ps and Qs.

DocBones
08-10-2013, 04:27 PM
If anyone was outdoors in my USMC, with the Marine's cover off their head, for no reason escept for when they were wearing their gasmasks, I would have snatched their head bald, on the spot.

Of course, with someone outranking me, I would have said, "With all due respect to the rank and to the uniform," then I would have snatched their head bald.

Then I would have removed their head from their stacking swivel, and then proceed to do something down their neck.

I am getting old. I can't quite remember what I would have done down their neck.

;)

sharkhunter
08-10-2013, 10:38 PM
I've corrected Airmen at my base for having their hands in their pockets, but just like others, I'm a dick about it when I tell them. I've also corrected enlisted not saluting officers and I've correct officers not saluting back to me (which usually gets me an ugly stare). So why do these things? We can't let the little things go because sooner or later, those little things add up to bigger things. The sooner we correct them, the early we prevent it

Absinthe Anecdote
08-10-2013, 10:47 PM
You can observe a lot just by looking!

Capt Alfredo
08-11-2013, 01:37 AM
I've corrected Airmen at my base for having their hands in their pockets, but just like others, I'm a dick about it when I tell them. I've also corrected enlisted not saluting officers and I've correct officers not saluting back to me (which usually gets me an ugly stare). So why do these things? We can't let the little things go because sooner or later, those little things add up to bigger things. The sooner we correct them, the early we prevent it

I know! Planes will be falling from the skies if we don't hold the line. Welcome to the board!

Pullinteeth
08-13-2013, 06:04 PM
You are stationed at Lackland. You are walking towards a building when you see a few basic trainees come out and forget to put on their cover. Do you say something? or keep going and figure a TI will catch it? I see it quite a bit and generally just tap my head and say cover. Simple and quick.

What if you see trainees doing something stupid or something you know isn't allowed and there isn't a TI around...are you going to call them on it? I have found that I typically don't have to say anything because I can kind of just make my presence known with a cough and they stop whatever they are doing.


With the current climate in basic training it seems many active duty are afraid to even look at a trainee or tell them congrats when they graduate. TI's aren't always around them and they get stupid sometimes when they aren't around. One of the NCO's in my squadron witnessed two of them shoving each other as they marched. He just kept going because he was afraid to say something. I think it is a sad state of affairs here. I remember in basic one of my flight members and I were walking back from the clinic and were out of step and a TSgt stopped his car a little ahead of us and told us to get in step.

Can, would, and have. I don't go all TI on them but I will certianlly correct them. Haven't pulled a 341 and don't go looking for them screwing up but can't/won't let it slide...


I heard it said a lot in BMT "no trainee is worth your stripes." If you want to correct them quietly and professionally, then do it. But try going TI unless you're wearing the hat. It's not your job. Even if you are a TI there's trainees out there who just don't care. I was at the BX for lunch one weekend. Ran into a graduated Airman with his family. He had obviously been walking round all day and looked a little frumpy--shirt not tucked in tight, gig line off. Nothing major, just a quick adjust in front of mirror and he'd be good. I told him he might want to find a bathroom and straighten his uniform. No drama, it was in the BX in front of his family. It didn't need to be a yelling scene, I was only a dick when I needed to be.

Of course they say that... They don't mean it like you think though... They MEAN no trainee is so good in the sack as to risk your career....

DocBones
08-13-2013, 08:08 PM
Here's a thought, and I do believe that maybe the same thing goes on in the Air Force.

While I was a Drill Instructor for the Marines, about the only time a recruit was away from a DI was when he was going to sick call.

Those recruits had little enough time to mess around. Going to and from sick call was a very short distance. There was really no chance, almost, for them to screw up.

If a recruit missed giving a salute to an officer while enroute to sick call, they would be dressed down by that officer. Anyone that was not an officer, ie: enlisted, and that person was not a DI, that person was not allowed to go DIish on that recruit. Corrections are one thing. Trying to be a DI when that person was not a DI would land that person in such hot water if that person was seen doing so.

During my time at Parris Island, SC, I had never seen any enlisted ever accost a recruit, trying to put a recruit into 'the Rose Garden" (a sand pit where recruits were brought to and made to do some pretty back breaking exercises), unless that person was a DI.

I had never seen a person that was enlisted that was not a DI getting into a recruits face and well, you know.

I think that TIs have a place, and the rest of the AF has their own place, just like DIs and the rest of the USMC.

You can correct someone if they mess up. You may report that person to the TI. However, to get down and funky?

That is the TI's job. Not anyone else's in the AF.

imported_chipotleboy
08-13-2013, 09:32 PM
I think DocBones had a great post. It's the job of a TI to be a TI.

From the "O" side, if it was something that was a minor matter of distraction or inattention to detail, I would quietly make a matter-of-fact comment, looking directly at the member, and that was usually enough to handle the situation. In some cases, I would discover that I was wrong and the member was right, giving me the opportunity to learn something without looking like a jacka##. If something more serious was involved, I worked with my NCOIC or the member's supervisor to resolve the situation. Not because I didn't want to do it myself, but I believe it is the supervisor's responsibility and prerogative to know what is going on and to fairly enforce standards. Also, doing it this way establishes mutual trust and faith in the supervisor's professionalism and expertise. If I got involved to the point where I officially noticed something and directly handled it, it was serious to the point where I had the Manual for Courts Martial on my desk and was quoting punitive articles of the UCMJ to the wayward member explaining potential consequences for continued bad behavior. I rarely went that far, and never had to go beyond that.

imnohero
08-15-2013, 04:15 PM
this is a military job?

imnohero
08-15-2013, 04:26 PM
Well, yes. If you are being offered a position that matches your rank and AFSC, then go for it without reservation.

If it's a civilian position they must have seen something they liked and are willing to train you up on the stuff you don't know. I'd accept the position and be upfront about needing to learn a lot. Unless the job requirements are something specific that you have absolutely no knowledge or clue about, that requires specialized training, certification or knowledge, I say go for it.

Pullinteeth
08-15-2013, 04:36 PM
New Question of the Day!

You've just been offered a position/job that you believe you are unqualified for. You've read the requirements and barely know what they mean, let alone how to do them.

Do you:

- Take the job and expect to figure it out as you go

- Take the job but sign up for off-duty classes or something.

- Decline the job figuring you'll end up fired or in jail for incompetence

- Approach the hiring authority and ask him what the hell is he thinking...what makes him think you can do it.

- Other

I think most of us are taught that we need to "step out of our comfort" zone and accept new challenges...looking around, especially as senior leaders get fired and career's ruined, stepping too far out of your comfort zone can spell disaster for your career or worse.

What say you? How far out of your comfort zone are you willing to go? Or do you just take all opportunities? Does it matter if it's a lateral or a "step up"?

Take it...if you suck @$$ at it, at least you get paid for a while...not your fault they didn't follow their own guidelines. Maybe they just hadn't updated their requirements....