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sharkhunter
08-07-2013, 10:47 PM
I was wondering if someone can give me advice on my situation, here's my situation:

I was placed on admin hold by commander in Apr 2013 due to a pending admin discharge board. However, in mid July, the admin discharge board was dismissed, but my admin hold is still in place. I have DEROS of 24 Sept 2013 with a pending assignment to a dependent restricted tour.
However, my commander has made it very clear to me that he wants to keep me at my base longer for "observation" and he is in the works to get my assignment cancelled. One reason is because he feels that I should not be away from my family for a long time. With my commander saying that, I believe he is going to involuntary extend my DEROS but don't know for how long.

I didn't do any outprocessing because of the pending admin discharge board, but now I'm within 50 days of my departure date and I don't have any orders to anywhere.

My dependent's visas are about to expire on my DEROS. Originally I was going to put in a request for Dependents to Remain Overseas while I serve my dependent restricted tour, which (if approved) would've allowed them to apply for new visas (all reimburiable) when I received my orders. However, since I am still on admin hold, no one can tell me when I will be off the admin hold or even give me a new DEROS date, which is required in order to apply for new visas. With the new visa application procedures in this country, it seems that my dependents will have to leave this country (at our expense) once their visas expire (which contradicts my commander's thinking) and then reapply outside of this country, but they still need a DEROS date and orders to apply. My first sergeant has suggested they leave the country and then return as "tourist" but somehow I think that's illegal (not blaming my first sergeant for giving this advice, but he's only a temp with no diamond so he probably doesn't know the rules).

Additionally, since all my dependents are acquired (I married my wife after my orders to this base were publish and my children were born here), my original orders will not be amended to show they are with me. All I have are command sponsorship letters to show they are command sponsored. I've been told by MPF that when I leave here, they will be on my orders leaving the base. With that being said, my wife's visa is not reimbursable and I would have to pay out of pocket for her visa ($950). My children's visas though are reimbursable since they are automatically command sponsored at birth.

My assignment has still not been cancelled and according to MPF, I'm still on the books to go to my next assignment. I'm not on a control roster, UIF, nor am I under investigation or a court martial witness. I think I'm in legal limbo here, but don't know who to talk to about this.

technomage1
08-07-2013, 11:07 PM
Wow...

The only thing I suggest is putting a ticket into myPers and seeing what the answer is. Also, use your shirt.

Measure Man
08-07-2013, 11:11 PM
I was wondering if someone can give me advice on my situation, here's my situation:

I was placed on admin hold by commander in Apr 2013 due to a pending admin discharge board. However, in mid July, the admin discharge board was dismissed, but my admin hold is still in place. I have DEROS of 24 Sept 2013 with a pending assignment to a dependent restricted tour.
However, my commander has made it very clear to me that he wants to keep me at my base longer for "observation" and he is in the works to get my assignment cancelled. One reason is because he feels that I should not be away from my family for a long time. With my commander saying that, I believe he is going to involuntary extend my DEROS but don't know for how long.

Sounds like he wants to put you on the control roster.


I didn't do any outprocessing because of the pending admin discharge board, but now I'm within 50 days of my departure date and I don't have any orders to anywhere.

Outprocessing is easy...can be done in a week if necessary.


My dependent's visas are about to expire on my DEROS. Originally I was going to put in a request for Dependents to Remain Overseas while I serve my dependent restricted tour, which (if approved) would've allowed them to apply for new visas (all reimburiable) when I received my orders. However, since I am still on admin hold, no one can tell me when I will be off the admin hold or even give me a new DEROS date, which is required in order to apply for new visas. With the new visa application procedures in this country, it seems that my dependents will have to leave this country (at our expense) once their visas expire (which contradicts my commander's thinking) and then reapply outside of this country, but they still need a DEROS date and orders to apply. My first sergeant has suggested they leave the country and then return as "tourist" but somehow I think that's illegal (not blaming my first sergeant for giving this advice, but he's only a temp with no diamond so he probably doesn't know the rules).

Visa rules vary by country. You need to talk with MPF on this. I wouldn't follow the First Sergeant's advice...not sure that it is "illegal" but it might effectively end her command sponsorship.


Additionally, since all my dependents are acquired (I married my wife after my orders to this base were publish and my children were born here), my original orders will not be amended to show they are with me. All I have are command sponsorship letters to show they are command sponsored. I've been told by MPF that when I leave here, they will be on my orders leaving the base. With that being said, my wife's visa is not reimbursable and I would have to pay out of pocket for her visa ($950). My children's visas though are reimbursable since they are automatically command sponsored at birth.

Interesting.


My assignment has still not been cancelled and according to MPF, I'm still on the books to go to my next assignment. I'm not on a control roster, UIF, nor am I under investigation or a court martial witness. I think I'm in legal limbo here, but don't know who to talk to about this.

If I had to bet $5, I'd say your CC is going to figure that doing control roster for someone overseas with a DEROS and an assignment is just not worth the hassle...and he'll let your proceed to PCS. Some CCs are more stubborn than others though.

Chief_KO
08-08-2013, 12:00 AM
Command sponsorship does not matter. Once they are your dependents (DEERS, ID card, etc), passports, visas, etc. (to include photos, and rush processing) are reimbursable as travel expenses (claimed on you travel voucher). Talk to finance. The US government reimburses for dependent travel (to include passports, visas and foreign entrance fees: Hello Turkey) when you PCS CONUS to OCONUS and they will do likewise for locally acquired (a term I find offensive) spouse and children.

Measure Man
08-08-2013, 02:42 AM
Command sponsorship does not matter. Once they are your dependents (DEERS, ID card, etc), passports, visas, etc. (to include photos, and rush processing) are reimbursable as travel expenses (claimed on you travel voucher). Talk to finance. The US government reimburses for dependent travel (to include passports, visas and foreign entrance fees: Hello Turkey) when you PCS CONUS to OCONUS and they will do likewise for locally acquired (a term I find offensive) spouse and children.

Not necessarily. If they are not on your original orders to that assignment, then travel expenses are not reimbursed to that assignment.

This is why her visa will not get reimbursed, she was not on his orders to that country. I got married after I PCS'd to Germany, so my wife's travel to Germany was out of our pocket.

MSGTFSS
08-08-2013, 07:46 AM
If non of the below apply to you i would seek advice from your local ADC and push back thru the 1st Shirt that they need to let you go. In addation you should also complete all of your assignment actions as if you are going to PCS until your assignment actually gets canx. Per AFI 36-2110 "3.10.2.1. The reasons and authority for involuntary OS tour extensions are limited and specific. For the purpose of PCS assignments the term "admin hold" is too general in nature; all involuntary extensions must be based on one of the specific reasons authorized or approval of the extension received as an exception. Unit commanders must take prompt administrative or disciplinary action to reduce the need for involuntary OS extension. When more time is necessary to complete an administrative or disciplinary action, they may request involuntary DEROS extension. The commander exercising Special Court Martial (SPCM) authority (or HQ AFPC/CC) may approve a unit commander’s request for involuntary DEROS extension of an Airman serving any OS tour (accompanied or unaccompanied, short or long), for the following reasons. (Approval authority may not be delegated). When the SPCM authority approves an involuntary extension, the MPS must take PDS update action as prescribed in paragraph 3.10.4 NOTE: Airmen serving an unaccompanied short tour can be involuntarily extended for only the following reasons.
3.10.2.1.1. AFOSI or Security Forces investigation (AAC 17).
3.10.2.1.2. Court Martial or civil charges preferred (AAC 15).
3.10.2.1.3. Key and essential (material witness) at courts-martial (AAC 14).
3.10.2.1.4. Completion of Article 15 action (AAC 12). Does not include suspended punishment period.
3.10.2.1.5. Completion of Administrative Discharge Actions and/or Article 32 investigations (AAC 21).
3.10.2.1.6. Compliance with the host country’s customs regulations.
3.10.3. In addition to the reasons listed above, a unit commander may request, and the commander exercising SPCM authority (or HQ AFPC/CC) may approve, involuntary DEROS extension of an Airman serving accompanied, short or long tour, or accompanied or unaccompanied at a long tour (see Attachment 1) location for the following reasons. (Approval authority may not be delegated). Upon approval, the MPS must take PDS update action as prescribed in paragraph 3.10.4.
3.10.3.1. Enlisted Airmen nonselected for reenlistment (AAC 10, authorized only in conjunction with rehabilitative, administrative, or disciplinary action also being taken).
3.10.3.2. Control Roster (AAC 16).
3.10.3.3. Enlisted only. Administrative Demotion (AAC 21).
3.10.3.4. Enlisted only. Last EPR promotion recommendation is "1" or "2" (authorized only if the commander also places the Airman on the control roster with a commander-directed EPR at the conclusion of the observation period).
3.10.3.5. Failure to meet Fitness Standards only authorized if rehabilitative, administrative, or disciplinary action is also being taken.
3.10.3.6. Mandatory retraining action (authorized only if reporting identifier 9A100 applies)."

MSGTFSS
08-08-2013, 07:48 AM
Command sponsorship does not matter. Once they are your dependents (DEERS, ID card, etc), passports, visas, etc. (to include photos, and rush processing) are reimbursable as travel expenses (claimed on you travel voucher). Talk to finance. The US government reimburses for dependent travel (to include passports, visas and foreign entrance fees: Hello Turkey) when you PCS CONUS to OCONUS and they will do likewise for locally acquired (a term I find offensive) spouse and children.

Command Sponsorship does matter and a member is not reimbured for acquired dependents travel/visas because they were not his dependent when he was assignded to his current station.

BRUWIN
08-08-2013, 10:01 AM
I kinda had something similar happen to me during my very first assignment. My CC and Shirt kept saying I was put in Admin Hold status...I was in a bit of trouble at the time...when in fact MPF kept calling saying I still had the assignment and I needed to get my out-processing checklist done. I didn't know what the hell to do. In the end I was let go to outprocess. Come to find out....my CC and Shirt were trying to flex muscles they didn't really have. I really don't know if this is the case for the OP. I know the IG was the agency that figured it all out for me.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-08-2013, 10:24 AM
I don't see why it would hurt to start out processing. I'd also be asking about this everyday until I got an answer.

euripedes
08-08-2013, 01:37 PM
MSGTFSS said it best. The AFI is pretty clear man. They can't just tell you "admin hold". It has to fit one of the criteria listed. AFI 36-2110 (Pages 186-189).

"Involuntary Extension of OS Tour for Cause. DOD and, in turn, the AF permit involuntary extension of Airmen in the OS area for limited specific reasons. This paragraph provides the losing commander the opportunity to involuntarily extend Airmen in order to take appropriate action to rehabilitate, discipline, or separate those Airmen, who by their actions or performance, have demonstrated they are unwilling or unable to meet minimum AF standards. Involuntary extension is a function of command and the decision to extend rests solely with the losing commander."

And just reading this part of it, you should probably walk the line and do everything you can to keep your ducks in a row.

sharkhunter
08-10-2013, 08:58 PM
Command sponsorship does not matter. Once they are your dependents (DEERS, ID card, etc), passports, visas, etc. (to include photos, and rush processing) are reimbursable as travel expenses (claimed on you travel voucher). Talk to finance. The US government reimburses for dependent travel (to include passports, visas and foreign entrance fees: Hello Turkey) when you PCS CONUS to OCONUS and they will do likewise for locally acquired (a term I find offensive) spouse and children.

I had a talk with finance and they are more than willing to reimburse me IF/WHEN I get my wife on my orders and even they said that she should be on my orders now. However, again MPF is pushing back saying "no your orders will not be amended and your wife and kids will only show up AFTER you leave here."

sharkhunter
08-10-2013, 09:03 PM
Thanks to all for your reponses. I started my out-processing, but most of the out processing paperwork requires a signature from my CC. I had one paperwork routed up only to be stopped at the Flight CC with a comment "no need to go up, assignment is going to be axed." MPF though, keeps saying its not. So again I'm stuck where I am. The only other pre outprocessing checklist items I can do is the medical and dental. But my supervisor is telling me "don't hold your breath, your assignment is going to get cancelled." So not really sure how to take it: stay positive and keep pressing or listen to everyone and give up?