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View Full Version : Sheppard Amn found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in death of base civ employee



loggie94
08-02-2013, 07:38 AM
http://www.aetc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123357970

"Sheppard Airman found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in death of base civilian employee"

So many thoughts on this one...

-- She wasn't "found guilty" she pled guilty. Poor caption from PA. (Good on her for at least admitting her stupidity)

-- Pre-trial agreement to 5 years and still only got 30 months??

-- 30 months!!!??? for killing one of our own!!??

-- where is the public outcry, congressional hearings, or ground-swell of effort to tackle DUI incidents!?

-- Shame on her wingman for letting her get that drunk. (although I do not held them responsible for her DUI)

-- Shame on her for ignoring her wingman's warnings and driving anyway.




Rest in peace, Mike Brown -- thank you for your years of dedicated service in and out of uniform. I hope his family and co-workers can find peace...

CrustySMSgt
08-02-2013, 07:49 AM
WTF...

Shit like this makes me want to vomit. I don't give 2 shits about how super awesome she was as a person on Airman. She didn't make a "mistake" she committed a CRIME that took someone's life. She should rot in jail for the 10 years she could have gotten.

disgusting

RIP Mike Brown

Bunch
08-02-2013, 08:16 AM
WTF...

Shit like this makes me want to vomit. I don't give 2 shits about how super awesome she was as a person on Airman. She didn't make a "mistake" she committed a CRIME that took someone's life. She should rot in jail for the 10 years she could have gotten.

disgusting

RIP Mike Brown

Both sides agreed on a sentence of less than 5 years. I can only imagine that the family of Mr. Brown even in their deep emotional state didn't want to see this young person life go to waste. That's the only thing I can think as why she got only 30 months.

tiredretiredE7
08-02-2013, 08:31 AM
Both sides agreed on a sentence of less than 5 years. I can only imagine that the family of Mr. Brown even in their deep emotional state didn't want to see this young person life go to waste. That's the only thing I can think as why she got only 30 months.

The AF has always given shorter sentences to women. Could this be an example of the AF's lesser expectation of women? Female TI got very little compared to her male TI peers as well.

Sergeant eNYgma
08-02-2013, 02:49 PM
Shit................more DUI briefings......more wingman days....just because stupid here thought she was Superwoman...

Absinthe Anecdote
08-02-2013, 03:11 PM
The AF has always given shorter sentences to women. Could this be an example of the AF's lesser expectation of women? Female TI got very little compared to her male TI peers as well.

Not really out of sync with what the civilian courts would do in a similar case.

mikezulu1
08-02-2013, 04:45 PM
God havent you guys done your SAPR/SARC traning lately. A women is not responsible for her actions even if she has had only one alcoholic beverage geez!

TWilliams
08-02-2013, 07:10 PM
30 months jail time for taking someone's life does not seem like justice to me.

Measure Man
08-02-2013, 07:40 PM
Sentence seems too short, IMO, also.

0.24 BAC in the MORNING...that girl wasn't driving buzzed, she was driving hammered.

technomage1
08-02-2013, 07:53 PM
Sentence seems too short, IMO, also.

0.24 BAC in the MORNING...that girl wasn't driving buzzed, she was driving hammered.

Agree in the sentence being short. She's lucky she didn't kill herself drinking that much, though IMO that would've been preferable to her killing an innocent man.

BRUWIN
08-03-2013, 09:15 AM
She's lucky she didn't kill herself drinking that much, though IMO that would've been preferable to her killing an innocent man.

I can't speak for her but I would almost bet that she probably feels the same way. I know I would.

akruse
08-03-2013, 09:25 AM
I can't speak for her but I would almost bet that she probably feels the same way. I know I would.

Yeah i don't think I want my tax dollars going to housing her in a prison for 30 years. What good would come of it?

jshiver15
08-03-2013, 10:44 AM
Damn, went to her FB and she's actually really cute . . too bad she's a fucking murderer.

jshiver15
08-03-2013, 10:51 AM
Also, kind of wondering how she updated her FB less than a month ago. Sorry, but if I was on trial for killing someone, I don't think I'd be updating my FB with selfies of me smiling.

Greg
08-03-2013, 12:11 PM
Damn, went to her FB and she's actually really cute . . too bad she's a fucking murderer.

She's an alcoholic. Odds are one, or even both, of her parents have substance abuse issues.

This does not give her, or anyone else, a pass, especially involving the death of an innocent.

VCO
08-03-2013, 12:34 PM
Damn, went to her FB and she's actually really cute . . too bad she's a fucking murderer.

She isn't a murderer. The court didn't even try her for murder.

fufu
08-03-2013, 03:11 PM
http://www.aetc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123357970

"Sheppard Airman found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in death of base civilian employee"

Rest in peace, Mike Brown -- thank you for your years of dedicated service in and out of uniform. I hope his family and co-workers can find peace...



-- Shame on her wingman for letting her get that drunk. (although I do not held them responsible for her DUI)--STOP IT!! She is a fucking adult. Adults should not be babysitting other adults.

30 months is awfully light for killing someone. I mean, some of the TIs that had consensual sex with tech students got more than that.

fufu
08-03-2013, 03:13 PM
She's an alcoholic. Odds are one, or even both, of her parents have substance abuse issues.

This does not give her, or anyone else, a pass, especially involving the death of an innocent.

Says her Mother was in the article.

jshiver15
08-03-2013, 03:27 PM
She's an alcoholic. Odds are one, or even both, of her parents have substance abuse issues.

This does not give her, or anyone else, a pass, especially involving the death of an innocent.

I also grew up around substance abuse. My mother was an alcoholic. My uncle died from an overdose less than 4 years ago. I have NEVER gotten behind the wheel of a car when under the influence. That argument doesn't hold water with me. Sorry.

jshiver15
08-03-2013, 03:28 PM
She isn't a murderer. The court didn't even try her for murder.

With that logic, I'm sure you believe OJ Simpson wasn't a murderer either. Amirite?

Pullinteeth
08-03-2013, 05:07 PM
She's an alcoholic. Odds are one, or even both, of her parents have substance abuse issues.

This does not give her, or anyone else, a pass, especially involving the death of an innocent.

Oh please....using the AF definition who isn't?

Measure Man
08-03-2013, 05:07 PM
She's an alcoholic. Odds are one, or even both, of her parents have substance abuse issues.

This does not give her, or anyone else, a pass, especially involving the death of an innocent.

Says so right in the article:


During the second day of proceedings, character witnesses and family members were called to the stand to testify on Faul's behalf in regards to her upbringing that was marred with drugs and alcohol by her biological mother.

ForumModerator
08-03-2013, 05:43 PM
Ladies and Gent's,

Please refrain from personal attacks/harassment/provication of other forum members. It is expected of you to keep all discussions civil. Stay on topic and discuss.

fufu
08-03-2013, 06:55 PM
Ladies and Gent's,

Please refrain from personal attacks/harassment/provication of other forum members. It is expected of you to keep all discussions civil. Stay on topic and discuss.

---?----

:confused:

OtisRNeedleman
08-03-2013, 09:14 PM
Reading the story after Googling the airman, noticed no mention of her husband in the story. They were married in 2010, apparently during tech school.

loggie94
08-05-2013, 05:34 AM
-- Shame on her wingman for letting her get that drunk. (although I do not held them responsible for her DUI)--STOP IT!! She is a fucking adult. Adults should not be babysitting other adults.

30 months is awfully light for killing someone. I mean, some of the TIs that had consensual sex with tech students got more than that.

Well, I admit...here is where I am a little two-faced... I completely agree that SHE is responsible for her actions and is the only one who should be punished for them. However, she wasn't out drinking alone and someone else could (should) have interveined.

imported_Renazance
08-05-2013, 10:43 AM
She isn't a murderer. The court didn't even try her for murder.

You're right. She's an involuntary manslaughterer.

raider8169
08-05-2013, 12:35 PM
Well, I admit...here is where I am a little two-faced... I completely agree that SHE is responsible for her actions and is the only one who should be punished for them. However, she wasn't out drinking alone and someone else could (should) have interveined.

I dont think we have the whole story. It sounded to me like she was done drinking and home when she got the call that her friend was in the hospital. Chances are everyone thought she was done for the night and was going to bed.

technomage1
08-05-2013, 12:54 PM
I dont think we have the whole story. It sounded to me like she was done drinking and home when she got the call that her friend was in the hospital. Chances are everyone thought she was done for the night and was going to bed.

Yep. What are they supposed to do, chain her to the bed to make sure she doesn't get up during the night? That would lead to a whole other set of problems.

Of course, someone who drank 20 drinks in 1 night probably shouldn't have been left alone anyway. As I noted, she could have died from that much alcohol.

the culture we have of going out, getting slammed, etc has got to change,

Greg
08-05-2013, 01:28 PM
Yep. What are they supposed to do, chain her to the bed to make sure she doesn't get up during the night? That would lead to a whole other set of problems.

Of course, someone who drank 20 drinks in 1 night probably shouldn't have been left alone anyway. As I noted, she could have died from that much alcohol.

the culture we have of going out, getting slammed, etc has got to change,

It's not the culture, it is the individual. No law, no disciplinary action, no punishment, will change an individual who is predisposed, genetically, of behavior considered outside social norms.

The culture is cover for someone's actions, a convenient excuse.

technomage1
08-05-2013, 03:36 PM
It's not the culture, it is the individual. No law, no disciplinary action, no punishment, will change an individual who is predisposed, genetically, of behavior considered outside social norms.

The culture is cover for someone's actions, a convenient excuse.

I don't argue against personal responsibility. Far from it. But how many times do your Airmen or Jr NCOs, when asked about their weekend plans, they include getting hammered? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with having a drink or two - I do it myself - but at least in CE units, the motto is work hard, play hard. And that comes from the top down. I've seen CC's staggering drunk at events before.

Unless this changes we will continue to have DUIs, sexual assualts, etc related to alcohol abuse (which is what getting hammered is).

Absinthe Anecdote
08-05-2013, 04:59 PM
I don't argue against personal responsibility. Far from it. But how many times do your Airmen or Jr NCOs, when asked about their weekend plans, they include getting hammered? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with having a drink or two - I do it myself - but at least in CE units, the motto is work hard, play hard. And that comes from the top down. I've seen CC's staggering drunk at events before.

Unless this changes we will continue to have DUIs, sexual assualts, etc related to alcohol abuse (which is what getting hammered is).

I agree with you but I don't see those attitudes changing anytime soon. I came in during the 1980's and remember the deglamorization of alcohol campaign.

I also view getting hammered as alcohol abuse. I also recognize that alcohol abuse is tied to very basic aspects of human behavior and that society has been struggling with the problem of alcohol abuse since the invention of wine.

I don't foresee the problem being eliminated by a PR campaign or by hammering (pun intended) people who do dumb shit while intoxicated.

Hold people accountable, yes! Talk to people honestly about the pitfalls of consuming alcohol, yes!

But don't be unrealistic about preventing destructive human behavior. Realize that it is a undesirable quality lurking inside each and every one of us and it is a force as strong as nature.

loggie94
08-06-2013, 06:09 AM
I dont think we have the whole story. It sounded to me like she was done drinking and home when she got the call that her friend was in the hospital. Chances are everyone thought she was done for the night and was going to bed.

I agree, if this is the case. I had a similar incident... troops' friends did the right thing...kept a guy from driving after a night of partying...tucked him into bed, made sure he had some water and tylenol by the bed and left for the night. He slept an hour, woke up, and decided to head back out to the party. Luckily, he only made it a block and only injured himself and a tree. Still use it as proof that "wingmen" can do everything right and still not prevent stupid.

jshiver15
08-06-2013, 07:41 AM
I agree, if this is the case. I had a similar incident... troops' friends did the right thing...kept a guy from driving after a night of partying...tucked him into bed, made sure he had some water and tylenol by the bed and left for the night. He slept an hour, woke up, and decided to head back out to the party. Luckily, he only made it a block and only injured himself and a tree. Still use it as proof that "wingmen" can do everything right and still not prevent stupid.

Similar thing happened when I was in Hawaii. A guy went out drinking with his friends, they got him back to the dorm, made sure he was in his room and had a puke bucket and water, even left the door to his pissmate's room open so he could periodically check on him, and then he "suddenly realized" (pretty sure he knew and just didn't care) he was supposed to work bay orderly a few hours later. So he decided that by walking to duty he will sober up and be good to go. He gets there, about 4 hours early, and they tell him to go home until he's supposed to report. He goes back to his dorm, falls asleep, then wakes up 5 minutes before he's supposed to be at work. Instead of calling to let them know he'd be late or to own up to his stupidity, he decides to drive and ends up driving on a sidewalk in front of a SF patrol car. Fastest demotion I've ever seen in the Air Force.

He got kicked out a little more than a year later for doing the same exact thing. I think it surprised everyone he lasted as long as he did in the Air Force.

BRUWIN
08-06-2013, 11:32 AM
I agree with you but I don't see those attitudes changing anytime soon. I came in during the 1980's and remember the deglamorization of alcohol campaign.

I also view getting hammered as alcohol abuse. I also recognize that alcohol abuse is tied to very basic aspects of human behavior and that society has been struggling with the problem of alcohol abuse since the invention of wine.

I don't foresee the problem being eliminated by a PR campaign or by hammering (pun intended) people who do dumb shit while intoxicated.

Hold people accountable, yes! Talk to people honestly about the pitfalls of consuming alcohol, yes!

But don't be unrealistic about preventing destructive human behavior. Realize that it is a undesirable quality lurking inside each and every one of us and it is a force as strong as nature.

Well spoken words. I am not against alcohol...but from my own personal experience it can make some people do things they normally wouldn't do. Some people have no business touching the stuff.

VCO
08-07-2013, 07:15 AM
With that logic, I'm sure you believe OJ Simpson wasn't a murderer either. Amirite?

18 USC § 1111
(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Every murder perpetrated by poison, lying in wait, or any other kind of willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated killing; or committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery; or perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; or perpetrated from a premeditated design unlawfully and maliciously to effect the death of any human being other than him who is killed, is murder in the first degree.

VCO
08-07-2013, 07:18 AM
I don't argue against personal responsibility. Far from it. But how many times do your Airmen or Jr NCOs, when asked about their weekend plans, they include getting hammered? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with having a drink or two - I do it myself - but at least in CE units, the motto is work hard, play hard. And that comes from the top down. I've seen CC's staggering drunk at events before.

Unless this changes we will continue to have DUIs, sexual assualts, etc related to alcohol abuse (which is what getting hammered is).

I disagree with the way you are painting CE as a bunch of drunks. Also, just because I drink doesn't mean I will drive or rape people. Not everyone in CE goes out and gets "hammered."

jshiver15
08-07-2013, 09:01 AM
18 USC § 1111
(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Every murder perpetrated by poison, lying in wait, or any other kind of willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated killing; or committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery; or perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; or perpetrated from a premeditated design unlawfully and maliciously to effect the death of any human being other than him who is killed, is murder in the first degree.

She deliberately got behind the wheel of a car in an extremely intoxicated state. She MURDERED someone by making an extremely poor decision. Hitting the guy was an accident, but selfishly putting herself in that position was deliberate. Not the same as other accidents that result in death because for most there isn't a reasonable expectation that you're putting someone's life in danger. Everyone knows that drinking and driving can very likely result in death. So yes, murder.

BOSS302
08-07-2013, 09:16 AM
in CE units, the motto is work hard, play hard. And that comes from the top down. I've seen CC's staggering drunk at events before.



Just about every unit has that motto. It's one of the most cliche' things in the Air Force - "We work hard but we also play hard, yeeeaah!!!"

I don't know what screwy CE units you've been in, but aside from Korea (where every squadron loses its damn mind for that year) my CE squadrons could have been full of straight-edgers. The last thing the BCE wants is a squadron full of hung-over assholes working on electricity, water/sewer systems, generators, performing engineering surveys, etc. And they made that point clear, though in more professional terms.

At Lakenheath in my extended-long tour CE had one DUI. That's one too many, but it's still one. Compare that to the other squadrons who were reapeat offenders and it brings to light the following:

(1) CE isn't as "party hard" as you're making it out to be
(2) CE could be "party hard" but they practice responsibility and maturity to the point that their hard-partying effects no one and only results in a good time.

As for drunk CC's staggering around, again...I say you must have had a crop of commanders who were better suited to command a Hooter's restaurant than command a squadron responsible for the base infrastructure/base recovery, fire protection, emergency management/readiness, and explosive ordinance disposal.

technomage1
08-07-2013, 09:36 AM
I disagree with the way you are painting CE as a bunch of drunks. Also, just because I drink doesn't mean I will drive or rape people. Not everyone in CE goes out and gets "hammered."

Read what I wrote again. I never claimed CE was a bunch of drunks. I mentioned CE only in the context of what my experiences are. If you hang around these boards long enough you will figure out its a vastly different AF for different AFSCs. Perhaps other fields don't have the same proportion of drinkers we do. I don't know their culture, hence the qualifing statement.

I do believe, based on my experiences, which are limited to CE, that a culture of getting hammered exists among airmen and jr NCOs. That does not mean everyone does this, but a lot do. Visit the dorms on a weekend if you don't believe me. They're not the only ones going this but it will show a snapshot of what I'm referring to.

technomage1
08-07-2013, 09:53 AM
Just about every unit has that motto. It's one of the most cliche' things in the Air Force - "We work hard but we also play hard, yeeeaah!!!"

I don't know what screwy CE units you've been in, but aside from Korea (where every squadron loses its damn mind for that year) my CE squadrons could have been full of straight-edgers. The last thing the BCE wants is a squadron full of hung-over assholes working on electricity, water/sewer systems, generators, performing engineering surveys, etc. And they made that point clear, though in more professional terms.

At Lakenheath in my extended-long tour CE had one DUI. That's one too many, but it's still one. Compare that to the other squadrons who were reapeat offenders and it brings to light the following:

(1) CE isn't as "party hard" as you're making it out to be
(2) CE could be "party hard" but they practice responsibility and maturity to the point that their hard-partying effects no one and only results in a good time.

As for drunk CC's staggering around, again...I say you must have had a crop of commanders who were better suited to command a Hooter's restaurant than command a squadron responsible for the base infrastructure/base recovery, fire protection, emergency management/readiness, and explosive ordinance disposal.

*sigh* Apparently I've twisted more than one set of panties with my qualifying statement.

In my 16 years in, I've had 3 commanders who I've seen completely hammered at squadron events. One i had to help sober up so he could report to the group CC on an emergency on a sat morning. Doesn't mean they didn't do their jobs. Doesn't mean they got a DUI. Doesn't mean they showed up to regular duty work hung over. Doesn't mean the squadron had a bunch of DUIs or we didn't take care of business. 2 of these units got outstanding unit awards and 1 had the highest award rates in the wing.

Does mean that they abused alcohol. Does mean they didn't set what I consider to be a good example in this area. Does indicate culture.

BOSS302
08-07-2013, 10:13 AM
*sigh* Apparently I've twisted more than one set of panties with my qualifying statement.

In my 16 years in, I've had 3 commanders who I've seen completely hammered at squadron events. One i had to help sober up so he could report to the group CC on an emergency on a sat morning. Doesn't mean they didn't do their jobs. Doesn't mean they got a DUI. Doesn't mean they showed up to regular duty work hung over. Doesn't mean the squadron had a bunch of DUIs or we didn't take care of business. 2 of these units got outstanding unit awards and 1 had the highest award rates in the wing.

Does mean that they abused alcohol. Does mean they didn't set what I consider to be a good example in this area. Does indicate culture.

Thank you for clarifying your original statement.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-07-2013, 11:14 AM
*sigh* Apparently I've twisted more than one set of panties with my qualifying statement.

In my 16 years in, I've had 3 commanders who I've seen completely hammered at squadron events. One i had to help sober up so he could report to the group CC on an emergency on a sat morning. Doesn't mean they didn't do their jobs. Doesn't mean they got a DUI. Doesn't mean they showed up to regular duty work hung over. Doesn't mean the squadron had a bunch of DUIs or we didn't take care of business. 2 of these units got outstanding unit awards and 1 had the highest award rates in the wing.

Does mean that they abused alcohol. Does mean they didn't set what I consider to be a good example in this area. Does indicate culture.

I'm a little disappointed that you walked back on your previous comments.

I've never been in a CE squadron but I've walked by their compounds on a number of occasions and spied them drunkenly igniting each others flatulence with acetylene torches and laughing as if it were a grand achievement.

I've only been in cop and intel squadrons so perhaps my opinion is a bit biased but I was more than happy to have CE characterized as a bunch of drunken buffoons.

You shouldn't be so quick to reverse yourself on this! You might find a lot of people who support your CE bashing in aircraft maintenance, security forces, and intelligence.

BOSS302
08-07-2013, 12:10 PM
I'm a little disappointed that you walked back on your previous comments.

I've never been in a CE squadron but I've walked by their compounds on a number of occasions and spied them drunkenly igniting each others flatulence with acetylene torches and laughing as if it were a grand achievement.

I've only been in cop and intel squadrons so perhaps my opinion is a bit biased but I was more than happy to have CE characterized as a bunch of drunken buffoons.

You shouldn't be so quick to reverse yourself on this! You might find a lot of people who support your CE bashing in aircraft maintenance, security forces, and intelligence.

I once spied some CE ruffians in horned helmets abusing a precious cathedral altar in Bury St. Edmund's. When I confronted them, they merely grunted, finished off their yard of meade, and proceeded to attack me with their iron and flint weapons. Luckily I survived.

I found out later that one of them was a Dirt Boy who went on to become the CMSAF.

BRUWIN
08-07-2013, 12:42 PM
I've only been in cop and intel squadrons so perhaps my opinion is a bit biased but I was more than happy to have CE characterized as a bunch of drunken buffoons.



I used to hate playing them in softball in the pre-9/11 days. In those days you daren't bring your wife or kids when playing CE in softball. If we won we had to scurry off the field and race to our cars before they could beat us up. When they were all in the dugout cage it really did look like an episode of MSNBC's "Lockup"... all they lacked was the theme song and the prison bars clanging shut.

After 9/11 they were always deployed and it was just their staff and other weenies left to field a team.

20+Years
08-07-2013, 01:00 PM
This CE story goes deeper than anyone actually realizes, and Bruwin was close. Anyone who paid close attention to AF personnel changes would have realized that about the same time COMM shredded out thier AFSC's, CE got a raise in SRBs. This was all pretty straight forward. After years of abuse, beatings, and humilation at the hands of CE, COMM decided something had to be done. To rectify being called geeks, nerds, and getting pounded by some CE guy named Ogre, COMM took two evasive steps. The COMM shred-out was an attempt to scatter and hide from CE, and the SRB was a secretive payoff to quit beating up COMM "weenies".

technomage1
08-07-2013, 09:58 PM
This CE story goes deeper than anyone actually realizes, and Bruwin was close. Anyone who paid close attention to AF personnel changes would have realized that about the same time COMM shredded out thier AFSC's, CE got a raise in SRBs. This was all pretty straight forward. After years of abuse, beatings, and humilation at the hands of CE, COMM decided something had to be done. To rectify being called geeks, nerds, and getting pounded by some CE guy named Ogre, COMM took two evasive steps. The COMM shred-out was an attempt to scatter and hide from CE, and the SRB was a secretive payoff to quit beating up COMM "weenies".

Are you saying we stole their lunch money?

Rizzo77
08-08-2013, 01:24 AM
God havent you guys done your SAPR/SARC traning lately. A women is not responsible for her actions even if she has had only one alcoholic beverage geez!

According to the "sessions" to which I have been subjected, NO woman can make a decision after drinking. So how does that apply in this case?

imnohero
08-08-2013, 02:13 AM
God havent you guys done your SAPR/SARC traning lately. A women is not responsible for her actions even if she has had only one alcoholic beverage geez!


According to the "sessions" to which I have been subjected, NO woman can make a decision after drinking. So how does that apply in this case?

I realize this is somewhat sarcastic (or at least that's the way I read it)...however, the same concept applies in both cases. After drinking a person can not consent (sex) or, as in this case, satisfy the requirements of a murder charge...malice of intent and/or forethought.

I'm not sure that I agree 100% with this concept, but I do see a consistency in reasoning in each case.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-08-2013, 02:54 AM
I realize this is somewhat sarcastic (or at least that's the way I read it)...however, the same concept applies in both cases. After drinking a person can not consent (sex) or, as in this case, satisfy the requirements of a murder charge...malice of intent and/or forethought.

I'm not sure that I agree 100% with this concept, but I do see a consistency in reasoning in each case.

You should be making the decision not to drive before you start drinking.

imnohero
08-08-2013, 03:15 AM
I agree. But driving after drinking, whether you decided to before hand or not, does not mean you had intent to kill the person that you did. Shades of grey between murder and manslaughter? Yes, probably. But they are important in the law.

EastCoaster
08-08-2013, 06:37 AM
Incoming Wingman Days...

VCO
08-08-2013, 08:10 AM
Read what I wrote again. I never claimed CE was a bunch of drunks. I mentioned CE only in the context of what my experiences are. If you hang around these boards long enough you will figure out its a vastly different AF for different AFSCs. Perhaps other fields don't have the same proportion of drinkers we do. I don't know their culture, hence the qualifing statement.

I do believe, based on my experiences, which are limited to CE, that a culture of getting hammered exists among airmen and jr NCOs. That does not mean everyone does this, but a lot do. Visit the dorms on a weekend if you don't believe me. They're not the only ones going this but it will show a snapshot of what I'm referring to.

All I'm saying is, be careful about painting thousands of people with the same brush based on the units you have been in and the people you have met. You haven't been to every unit or met every member of CE. You don't speak for us all.

BRUWIN
08-08-2013, 11:16 AM
All I'm saying is, be careful about painting thousands of people with the same brush based on the units you have been in and the people you have met. You haven't been to every unit or met every member of CE. You don't speak for us all.

Being as your CE I think you need to just chill out. It's now morning...get off the computer and start pyramiding the day's empty beer cans on the coffee table.

I can say this on the internet because you can't beat me up when I do.

Juggs
08-08-2013, 11:34 AM
Murder doesn't equal manslaughter, even voluntary manslaughter.

Also she wasn't found guilty. She pleaded guilty. Hmm PA making our military judicial system look good?

Juggs
08-08-2013, 11:37 AM
All I'm saying is, be careful about painting thousands of people with the same brush based on the units you have been in and the people you have met. You haven't been to every unit or met every member of CE. You don't speak for us all.

Chill out homie. It's called generalization. Instead listing folks by name he simply says CE probably because its true for the majority. Every time I've run across CE folks all I hear is man I need a beer. No it's not all CE troops, just the ones I've run across so that is may experience with them.

Some folks say TACPs are cocky assholes because that is the experience they had. I say the same thing about my former colleagues, they are quite cocky and can be assholes, now I know there are probably 7 or 8 that aren't, but it's easier to generalize, and I'm lazy.

technomage1
08-08-2013, 11:50 AM
All I'm saying is, be careful about painting thousands of people with the same brush based on the units you have been in and the people you have met. You haven't been to every unit or met every member of CE. You don't speak for us all.

I think my 16 years in 7 home station squadrons and 9 deployed ones gives me pretty broad scope. As others have noted, it's a generalization. Like with any generalization, it doesn't mean everyone is that way. I've met teetotalers too but not many. And, in case I didn't make it clear before, I think a lot of the AF is this way.

Maybe you spend your Friday nights crocheting and starching doilies. That's fine but you're not the majority.

Also keep in mind that a drunk abuses alcohol but an abuser of alcohol isn't necessarily a drunk. If I go out an get hammered tomorrow night, but show up to work M-F stone cold sober and excel at my job, I've abused alcohol but I'm not a drunk.

wxjumper
08-08-2013, 12:52 PM
http://www.aetc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123357970

"Sheppard Airman found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in death of base civilian employee"

So many thoughts on this one...

-- She wasn't "found guilty" she pled guilty. Poor caption from PA. (Good on her for at least admitting her stupidity)

-- Pre-trial agreement to 5 years and still only got 30 months??

-- 30 months!!!??? for killing one of our own!!??

-- where is the public outcry, congressional hearings, or ground-swell of effort to tackle DUI incidents!?

-- Shame on her wingman for letting her get that drunk. (although I do not held them responsible for her DUI)

-- Shame on her for ignoring her wingman's warnings and driving anyway.




Rest in peace, Mike Brown -- thank you for your years of dedicated service in and out of uniform. I hope his family and co-workers can find peace...The funny thing is that he would have gotten more jail time if he sexually harassed her.

imported_Renazance
08-08-2013, 12:59 PM
The funny thing is that he would have gotten more jail time if he sexually harassed her.

You've got a point there.

imported_WILDJOKER5
08-08-2013, 01:00 PM
Both sides agreed on a sentence of less than 5 years. I can only imagine that the family of Mr. Brown even in their deep emotional state didn't want to see this young person life go to waste. That's the only thing I can think as why she got only 30 months.

Budget cuts....