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MisterBen
08-02-2013, 03:37 AM
I do not see any recent topic of the discussion of one camo pattern for all services (back to the BDU days) and was just curious on your thoughts.:usa

The House passed some legislation recently and now the Senate is making theirs.

Read more at http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130801/NEWS07/308010041/Senators-join-push-toward-common-combat-uniform

imnohero
08-02-2013, 04:02 AM
They should have done this from the start, there is very little justification for different basic utility uniforms for the different services, especially in light of the cost.

I will say that some duties may require a specific or special duty uniform that is different than a generic utility uniform, but there is no reason that those uniforms can't be the same across the services also.

MisterBen
08-02-2013, 04:05 AM
Imnohero, do you think we should all be issued MarPat? Or Multicam?

CYBERFX1024
08-02-2013, 04:22 AM
MarPat for sure. But I am a former Marine so I am alittle partial to it. But for the life of me I will never understand why the hell the Army decided to go with ACU. They spent how many years and money on the study but finally came up with that. Then that brought along the Air Force Tiger Stripes and the retard blue contraption of the Navy. Why not just stick to maybe 1 or 2 patterns?

Quixotic
08-02-2013, 05:03 AM
I'd take the BDUs back in a heart beat.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly what was wrong with them in the first place...

MisterBen
08-02-2013, 05:13 AM
MarPat for sure. But I am a former Marine so I am alittle partial to it. But for the life of me I will never understand why the hell the Army decided to go with ACU. They spent how many years and money on the study but finally came up with that. Then that brought along the Air Force Tiger Stripes and the retard blue contraption of the Navy. Why not just stick to maybe 1 or 2 patterns?

The Army was supposed to decide on a pattern recently before these political decisions and one pattern was similar to MarPat.

Here is the link.

http://www.hyperstealth.com/US4CES-ALPHA/

CrustySMSgt
08-02-2013, 06:14 AM
OCPs need some serious work if the current design is on the table... damn things look like shit, fading and wearing through after a couple months of routine use... and for those that actually work, they aren't worth a damn after 6 months. WOuld be a great boon for the supply chain making money off everyone having to replace them.

imnohero
08-02-2013, 12:19 PM
Personally, I prefer the Marpat camo scheme. However, I don't know enough about the differences in fabric, cleaning, durability, etc. to pick one. That, for me, would be the deciding factor (that is, utility for a utility uniform), not color scheme.

Chief_KO
08-02-2013, 01:17 PM
There was nothing "wrong" with the BDUs. They were an Army uniform (made under an Army contract). When the Army decided to follow the Marines lead and create a service-specific uniform, the BDU was done. Yes, the AF could have picked up the contract, but tried instead for a common uniform for all.

Other than possibly a common pattern (light and heavy weight), does anyone seriously believe there will be a single uniform for all DoD? Lets face facts...how many pockets, location of pockets, slanted or straight, velcro, buttons, reinforced knees, elbows, butts...The only issue I have with uniforms is how much we pay for R&D.

Every former uniform is better than the current: khakis were better than fatigues, fatigues were better than BDUs, BDUs were better than ABUs, and ABUs will be better than the SCCSSAMCDIGUWU (Senate Congress Common Soldier Sailor Airman Marine Coastguardsman Deployed & In-Garrison Utility & Working Uniform)

CYBERFX1024
08-02-2013, 03:47 PM
Personally, I prefer the Marpat camo scheme. However, I don't know enough about the differences in fabric, cleaning, durability, etc. to pick one. That, for me, would be the deciding factor (that is, utility for a utility uniform), not color scheme.

The MARPAT uniform is actually a pretty good uniform to have. I got the best of both worlds actually. My platoon at boot camp was the first regular platoon issued Marpat diggies the the rest before were BDU's. But I had the majority of my uniforms for the whole time I was in (7 1/2 years). The fabric woodland fabric is alittle thicker than the digital, cleaning was AWESOME, and the durability was ok. But I did have a problem a couple times because I split my pants in front trying to carry a box of radio batteries. The only thing I didn't like was that the woodland Marpat would get lighter overtime so you couldn't use a new blouse with old pants. But us Marines are usually sticklers that way about uniforms.

CYBERFX1024
08-02-2013, 03:53 PM
The Army was supposed to decide on a pattern recently before these political decisions and one pattern was similar to MarPat.
Here is the link.
http://www.hyperstealth.com/US4CES-ALPHA/

Thanks I really enjoyed looking at that.

oldgrndr@
08-02-2013, 04:24 PM
I'd take the BDUs back in a heart beat.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly what was wrong with them in the first place...

In a word... potatoes, rice, pasta and bread.



That and eefffinnngg patch mandate.

Class5Kayaker
08-02-2013, 10:25 PM
ACUs were great camoflauge...when you visted your Grandma's house!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QaNZFBg1Up8/R1GQiZbmIVI/AAAAAAAAABo/Exb_4L9TZG8/s400/acu+on+couch.php

Assaultdog0351
08-03-2013, 04:38 PM
I just saw the article on Congress wanting us to have common combat and utility uniforms. This makes me upset.
1. I really don't want to wear a blue (they say it's green still for some reason) uniform to combat or anywhere else for that matter.
2. I think services changed uniforms because the whole uniformity thing wasn't working out so well.
3. By the time all the services are done duking it out over uniforms, we will be left with a $300 set of cammies that has every bell and whistle I don't need.
4. The uniform will fail to be tested by grunts. If it is tested by grunts, their input will be ignored and plans will continue as planned to keep to the timeline prescribed.
5. No leeway to test new fabrics and designs will hinder innovation. The Marine Corps is currently testing a new woodland MARPAT fabric. What's wrong with that? Look at all the awesome ass new F.R.O.G. gear that we get so we don't burn to death. What's wrong with that?
6. If Congress wants to make a scene about cost of uniforms, lets just be honest with ourselves and throw the Army, Navy and Air Force under the bus for coming up with the absolute worst camouflage ever created. Except the Multicam, the Army has a good foot in towards redemption with that one.
7. I doubt Congress would like it if we told them they had to all wear the same suit.
8. MARPAT is superior, and I want every soldier, sailor and airman to know that every time they put on their shitty uniforms.
Endrant.
:soapbox:

Pullinteeth
08-03-2013, 06:27 PM
I just saw the article on Congress wanting us to have common combat and utility uniforms. This makes me upset.
1. I really don't want to wear a blue (they say it's green still for some reason) uniform to combat or anywhere else for that matter.
2. I think services changed uniforms because the whole uniformity thing wasn't working out so well.
3. By the time all the services are done duking it out over uniforms, we will be left with a $300 set of cammies that has every bell and whistle I don't need.
4. The uniform will fail to be tested by grunts. If it is tested by grunts, their input will be ignored and plans will continue as planned to keep to the timeline prescribed.
5. No leeway to test new fabrics and designs will hinder innovation. The Marine Corps is currently testing a new woodland MARPAT fabric. What's wrong with that? Look at all the awesome ass new F.R.O.G. gear that we get so we don't burn to death. What's wrong with that?
6. If Congress wants to make a scene about cost of uniforms, lets just be honest with ourselves and throw the Army, Navy and Air Force under the bus for coming up with the absolute worst camouflage ever created. Except the Multicam, the Army has a good foot in towards redemption with that one.
7. I doubt Congress would like it if we told them they had to all wear the same suit.
8. MARPAT is superior, and I want every soldier, sailor and airman to know that every time they put on their shitty uniforms.
Endrant.
:soapbox:

1. From what I understand the uniform is going to be the multicams
2. You would think wrong. It was because the Army decided they could do better than the BDUs so everyone else was left to their own devices.
3. Doubt it. That is one of the BENEFITS of having all services use the same ones-the more produced, the cheaper they SHOULD be.
4. That is one of the problems with three out of the four currently used. The ACUs don't hold up like they were supposed to, the ABUs are hotter than they should be, the "cammies" only provide camoflage when you fall overboard (when you least WANT to be camoflaged).
5. It isn't that they can't test new fabrics (at least I don't think so), it is that now they all have to agree before they change.
6. The AF didn't TRY to come up with good camouflage. That wasn't their intent. Their intent was a distinct uniform and IMO, they failed at that too-the ABU color scheme is VERY similar to the ACU color scheme and from a distance, except for the beret, they look almost identical.
7.
8. As you might be aware, the USMC TRIED to get the Army to use theirs, the Army declined, the USMC patented theirs (CANNOT be used now...), the Army realized the ACU was shit and asked the USMC if they could use theirs, the USMC said fuck you, we patented it and we wouldn't want your fuckers wearing our precious globe and anchor....

Pullinteeth
08-03-2013, 06:42 PM
Imnohero, do you think we should all be issued MarPat? Or Multicam?

Ummmm of those two, only one is possible.... The other is trademarked and has the USMC globe and anchor included...

Rusty Jones
08-03-2013, 08:49 PM
1. From what I understand the uniform is going to be the multicams
2. You would think wrong. It was because the Army decided they could do better than the ABUs so everyone else was left to their own devices.

Impossible. The ACUs came out in 2003, and the ABUs came out in 2006.


the "cammies" only provide camoflage when you fall overboard (when you least WANT to be camoflaged).


6. The AF didn't TRY to come up with good camouflage. That wasn't their intent. Their intent was a distinct uniform and IMO, they failed at that too-the ABU color scheme is VERY similar to the ACU color scheme and from a distance, except for the beret, they look almost identical.

Actually, the Navy was trying to do something similar to what the Air Force was doing - a unique, non-tactical uniform.

The NWU's aren't worn underway anyway, just in-port only. Originally, it was supposed to be worn underway; until MCPON Campa announced that the Navy was keeping the coveralls back in 2006. So now, the coveralls have been kept as an underway uniform - and the coveralls are ALSO dark blue; but no one complains about not being able to be seen if they fall overboard in those. The unstated reason behind the complaint, is because the "old school" types want the dungarees and wash khakis back.

MisterBen
08-04-2013, 12:09 AM
OCPs need some serious work if the current design is on the table... damn things look like shit, fading and wearing through after a couple months of routine use... and for those that actually work, they aren't worth a damn after 6 months. WOuld be a great boon for the supply chain making money off everyone having to replace them.

I believe the OCPs that are issued are similar to FRACU which is for flame resistant purposes downrange. I think the normal garrison issue of OCP will be of much better material.

MisterBen
08-04-2013, 12:11 AM
Thanks I really enjoyed looking at that.

Brother, I wish that was the selection but I will be happy with Marpat if your Commandant and SGM wouldnt mind relinquishing it.

E4RUMOR
08-04-2013, 08:48 AM
1. From what I understand the uniform is going to be the multicams
2. You would think wrong. It was because the Army decided they could do better than the ABUs so everyone else was left to their own devices.
3. Doubt it. That is one of the BENEFITS of having all services use the same ones-the more produced, the cheaper they SHOULD be.
4. That is one of the problems with three out of the four currently used. The ACUs don't hold up like they were supposed to, the ABUs are hotter than they should be, the "cammies" only provide camoflage when you fall overboard (when you least WANT to be camoflaged).
5. It isn't that they can't test new fabrics (at least I don't think so), it is that now they all have to agree before they change.
6. The AF didn't TRY to come up with good camouflage. That wasn't their intent. Their intent was a distinct uniform and IMO, they failed at that too-the ABU color scheme is VERY similar to the ACU color scheme and from a distance, except for the beret, they look almost identical.
7.
8. As you might be aware, the USMC TRIED to get the Army to use theirs, the Army declined, the USMC patented theirs (CANNOT be used now...), the Army realized the ACU was shit and asked the USMC if they could use theirs, the USMC said fuck you, we patented it and we wouldn't want your fuckers wearing our precious globe and anchor....


I just saw the article on Congress wanting us to have common combat and utility uniforms. This makes me upset.
1. I really don't want to wear a blue (they say it's green still for some reason) uniform to combat or anywhere else for that matter.
2. I think services changed uniforms because the whole uniformity thing wasn't working out so well.
3. By the time all the services are done duking it out over uniforms, we will be left with a $300 set of cammies that has every bell and whistle I don't need.
4. The uniform will fail to be tested by grunts. If it is tested by grunts, their input will be ignored and plans will continue as planned to keep to the timeline prescribed.
5. No leeway to test new fabrics and designs will hinder innovation. The Marine Corps is currently testing a new woodland MARPAT fabric. What's wrong with that? Look at all the awesome ass new F.R.O.G. gear that we get so we don't burn to death. What's wrong with that?
6. If Congress wants to make a scene about cost of uniforms, lets just be honest with ourselves and throw the Army, Navy and Air Force under the bus for coming up with the absolute worst camouflage ever created. Except the Multicam, the Army has a good foot in towards redemption with that one.
7. I doubt Congress would like it if we told them they had to all wear the same suit.
8. MARPAT is superior, and I want every soldier, sailor and airman to know that every time they put on their shitty uniforms.
Endrant.
:soapbox:

I thoroughly enjoyed the rant and rebuttal.

Assaultdog0351
08-04-2013, 09:29 AM
8. As you might be aware, the USMC TRIED to get the Army to use theirs, the Army declined, the USMC patented theirs (CANNOT be used now...), the Army realized the ACU was shit and asked the USMC if they could use theirs, the USMC said fuck you, we patented it and we wouldn't want your fuckers wearing our precious globe and anchor....

Haha funny how that turned out.

DocBones
08-04-2013, 02:36 PM
I think that everyone should wear USMC cammies. That would be a great subliminal trick, with the EGA on them. The USMC would be guaranteed no more gutting of the Corps, for sure.

I would also like to see all of the women ( those who would want to) be wearing a set of cammied short shorts and a cammied crop topped blouse thing.

MisterBen
08-04-2013, 06:26 PM
Good thread. ForumAdmin should merge the Joint Camo into this one.

It won't be Multicam because the Corps won't relinquish MarPat for it. The Marines are even upset at the Navy for having the similar NWU Type III (AOR) that resembles MarPat. Sailors cannot even wear it unless in special ops units. So, my opinion is, keep MarPat for Marines/Sailors and US4CES for Army/Air Force. The Army needs to fix the pockets and velcro on the ACU. I wish rank will go back on the collar.

Bumble78
08-04-2013, 10:53 PM
I think there should be joint uniforms specific to jobs. If you work the flight line, you have some type of coveralls. If you work an office job, you have some sort of office uniform, not saying a dress uniform but not camoflauge. Kind of like Air Force services slacks and polo. If you are in a combat oriented job you should have a functional combat uniform. All dress uniforms should remain branch specific, but everything else should be the best design for the job. The ranks and patches should be what sets the branches apart.

Interceptor
08-04-2013, 10:57 PM
Good thread. ForumAdmin should merge the Joint Camo into this one.

Agreed. Great topic. Both threads have been merged. Enjoy the discussion.

Juggs
08-05-2013, 08:10 PM
There was nothing "wrong" with the BDUs. They were an Army uniform (made under an Army contract). When the Army decided to follow the Marines lead and create a service-specific uniform, the BDU was done. Yes, the AF could have picked up the contract, but tried instead for a common uniform for all.

Other than possibly a common pattern (light and heavy weight), does anyone seriously believe there will be a single uniform for all DoD? Lets face facts...how many pockets, location of pockets, slanted or straight, velcro, buttons, reinforced knees, elbows, butts...The only issue I have with uniforms is how much we pay for R&D.

Every former uniform is better than the current: khakis were better than fatigues, fatigues were better than BDUs, BDUs were better than ABUs, and ABUs will be better than the SCCSSAMCDIGUWU (Senate Congress Common Soldier Sailor Airman Marine Coastguardsman Deployed & In-Garrison Utility & Working Uniform)

The only thing wrong with BDUs is certain. Folks had to modify them to make them useful under body armor. When your spending 60 per person for a 1500 person care field it ads up. Now include the other 4 career fields at we're doing that same thing.

The multi cam idea is great, but from what Im seeing, the colors are fading quickly. So some more work has to be done to them, it i like how the set up is right, and the color scheme is right. More than what I can say for the AB

CYBERFX1024
08-05-2013, 08:24 PM
Good thread. ForumAdmin should merge the Joint Camo into this one.
It won't be Multicam because the Corps won't relinquish MarPat for it. The Marines are even upset at the Navy for having the similar NWU Type III (AOR) that resembles MarPat. Sailors cannot even wear it unless in special ops units. So, my opinion is, keep MarPat for Marines/Sailors and US4CES for Army/Air Force. The Army needs to fix the pockets and velcro on the ACU. I wish rank will go back on the collar.

If the other services want MARPAT then give them AOR. We will not give away our MARPAT for anyone. The only people allowed to wear MARPAT with the EGA are Corpsmen. We love our Devil Doc's

Absinthe Anecdote
08-05-2013, 08:39 PM
This thread is great! Seems like we have a real honest to goodness dilemma.

Don't worry folks, I'm going to sit down right now and write a nice long letter to my Senator and Congressmen and suggest they allocate a whole bunch of money to through at this problem.

If they give enough money to the DARPA guys, I think most of you could be replaced by robots in a few years.

Then whoever they keep around to be robot mechanics can wear simple white lab coats.

Dis_Grunt_Led
08-10-2013, 12:45 AM
I'm with several of you in questioning why we stopped using BDUs/cammies in the first place. I could be wrong, but there is likely a stockpile of them still (if we haven't sold them all to various 3rd world countries) that we could reclaim. I left the Corps right before they changed to Marpat and left OEF before multicam was issued so I've got no insight as to which is better, but I can definitely state that ACUs are garbage. As far as the USAF and USN uniforms... WTF were people thinking?

Pullinteeth
08-14-2013, 02:53 PM
Actually, the Navy was trying to do something similar to what the Air Force was doing - a unique, non-tactical uniform.

Not sure how that changes anything.... The Navy could have switched and if the Army had stayed withe the BDU, chances are that the AF could have as well...

Dis_Grunt_Led
08-16-2013, 01:04 AM
Still can't understand why some senior Marines are clinging so desperately to the MARPAT. Sure, it's a decent uniform, but its certainly not worth squabbling over in the media. The collective short-term memory of our senior leaders seems to have forgotten that only around a decade ago ALL of the services wore the same utility uniform and it didn't matter in the least. I highly doubt that the prestige of those in the Corps will lessen any if they have to share the MARPAT with the other services for the greater good. I can understand if those who joined the Corps over the last decade (aka newbies) have grown somewhat attached and identify with the MARPAT, but the senior leaders raising a stink about it simply come off as selfish little b****es. If today's Marines have to rely on the utility uniform they wear to maintain their identity, then things have sadly changed from the Corps of old.

DocBones
08-16-2013, 01:42 AM
Dis_Grunt_Led,

I seem to recall from way back when, as to how the Marines always called their green utilities 'utilities', while anyone not in the Corps called their greens 'fatigues'.

Now, I never hear the word 'fatigues' being used in talking about anyones utilities.

I guess that is the one victory that I can see in how the Marines have made everyone in the US military do their bidding... ;)

RobotChicken
08-16-2013, 01:48 AM
Dis_Grunt_Led,

I seem to recall from way back when, as to how the Marines always called their green utilities 'utilities', while anyone not in the Corps called their greens 'fatigues'.

Now, I never hear the word 'fatigues' being used in talking about anyones utilities.

I guess that is the one victory that I can see in how the Marines have made everyone in the US military do their bidding... ;)

"Kinda like our 'Dungaree's."

USMC0341
08-16-2013, 02:10 AM
No matter the design, the name tapes will still be there, along with the haircut, attitude and discipline to set em apart.

Chief_KO
08-16-2013, 03:26 AM
By the time one deployed uniform is chosen we will be out of the current AOR (en masse), and whenever the decided uniform is (after Congress decides where the factory will be etc.) delivered to the forces no one will be like it and many (all) will be complaining about looking like the other and being called by other service names.
In the history of the Armed Forces of the United States of America have we ever had a single common uniform used by all branches?
This is just one of those hot-button issues that get everyone's (in and out of uniform) panties in a bunch (OMG the DoD has 10 different uniforms...that is scandalous!!!!)
Or maybe we can just get Nike to do for us what they did for (to) the NFL.

Vrake
08-16-2013, 04:18 AM
One CAMO for all stateside all services. Shoulder patches for service so we can tell by color who is who from a distance. Devices left up to the individual services. Leave every other branch uniform in place outside of CAMO. That's a start IMHO.

In the field another. Keep it to the environment (sand,jungle,woodland,hot,cold etc) Reserve them for those outside the wire who will remain unseen until they pull a trigger.

Pullinteeth
08-16-2013, 01:36 PM
One CAMO for all stateside all services. Shoulder patches for service so we can tell by color who is who from a distance. Devices left up to the individual services. Leave every other branch uniform in place outside of CAMO. That's a start IMHO.

In the field another. Keep it to the environment (sand,jungle,woodland,hot,cold etc) Reserve them for those outside the wire who will remain unseen until they pull a trigger.

You had me up until your last sentence... So you are saying if it is balz@$$ cold, the only ones that should get a uniform that is warm are those outside the wire? That is just dumb.

MisterBen
08-16-2013, 04:38 PM
I am not surprised by the SGM's retraction.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20130815/NEWS07/308150029/Pentagon-s-top-enlisted-adviser-backs-off-comments-common-camouflage


The Pentagon’s senior noncommissioned officer insists his comments made earlier this month critical of the hodgepodge of American camouflage patterns did not signal support for stripping Marines of their unique combat uniforms.

During an Aug. 5 town hall meeting with fellow Marines in Hawaii, Sgt. Maj. Bryan Battaglia said the variety of camouflage patterns in use today across the four services makes deployed U.S. forces look like an “American Baskin Robbins,” according to a Marine Corps news release posted online this week. Battaglia is the senior enlisted adviser to Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. Martin Dempsey.

“The idea,” Battaglia told Marines, “is to find a universal uniform for the battlefield, whereas branch garrison uniforms will most likely remain the same. “Talks concerning a distinct universal uniform are currently a work in progress.”

BENDER56
08-16-2013, 06:48 PM
They should have done this from the start, there is very little justification for different basic utility uniforms for the different services, especially in light of the cost.

I will say that some duties may require a specific or special duty uniform that is different than a generic utility uniform, but there is no reason that those uniforms can't be the same across the services also.

<Sputter!> But, but ... how will our airmen stand out among the soldiers and Marines?! The Air Force must be seen!!1!11eleven!1

Yeah. Agreed. There should be only one tactical uniform for all services and it should be the one that conceals best and is functional while wearing body armor. Maybe two; woodland and desert versions.

Vrake
08-16-2013, 08:21 PM
You had me up until your last sentence... So you are saying if it is balz@$$ cold, the only ones that should get a uniform that is warm are those outside the wire? That is just dumb.

No I meant an outside the wire uniform. To match the enviroment or camouflage requirements. Everyone in the wire would wear the samething suited for the same. Just those going out would wear the "special" digital or whatever concealing properties work best. Then change back to the normal when they come back in. Just spit balling and I am pretty dumb--- Me Maxa Culpa or however that's spelled :)

DocBones
08-18-2013, 02:20 AM
Man, around here, the good old boys are dressed in their butternut uniforms from the Civil War. I bet they'd give their eyeteeth to have any of the since worn uniforms. Oh. Sorry, since everyone around here is missing most of their teeth, I meant that they would give their coon hounds eyeteeth for the chance to get out of them there smelly uniforms.

seanofthedead86
08-18-2013, 03:15 PM
Or maybe we can just get Nike to do for us what they did for (to) the NFL.

I know this comment is being made in jest, but seriously, why not let a company like Nike have a go at making a uniform for the services. They make quality stuff. It would be interesting to see if they could adapt the Dri-Fit technology into something comfortable and functional for everyday use in the military.

Pullinteeth
09-04-2013, 06:07 PM
I know this comment is being made in jest, but seriously, why not let a company like Nike have a go at making a uniform for the services. They make quality stuff. It would be interesting to see if they could adapt the Dri-Fit technology into something comfortable and functional for everyday use in the military.

The issue with that would be that they generally don't like to share and it would take more than one company to produce enough uniforms for everyone....

MisterBen
09-22-2013, 07:56 PM
I was just googling about the new Army camo and came across this post on this forum that was posted today.


Well SMA Chandler just told us tonight that the new pattern for the Army is going to be Multicam. Kinda disappointed but I suppose it makes sense seeing as how we are already wearing it here in Afghanistan and the Army has a bunch of gear and uniforms in stock. I'm still hoping things change and we get US4CES but that seems pretty far off now.

http://www.nationalguard.com/forums/showthread.php/26406-New-Army-Camo-Pattern-Set-For-Distribution-April-quot-1-quot-2014?p=191302#post191302

Does anyone believe this is true?

MisterBen
09-23-2013, 02:30 AM
Looks like Multicam won as mentioned in the last paragraph

http://www.stripes.com/news/soldiers-told-new-rules-governing-tattoos-grooming-standards-on-the-way-1.242828#

http://soldiersystems.net/2013/09/22/sma-chandler-lets-the-cat-out-of-the-bag-crye-family-of-camouflage-patterns-for-us-army/comment-page-1/#comment-352840

Stalwart
09-23-2013, 04:25 PM
Unique dress uniforms: yes
Unique service uniforms: yes
Unique utility uniforms for the same working environment: No -- use name tapes to ID your service.

MisterBen
10-19-2013, 06:47 AM
The announcement is coming soon.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/10/18/wait-continues-for-armys-new-camo-decision.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=1

http://soldiersystems.net/2013/10/18/us-army-camouflage-improvement-effort-update-ocp-contract-documents-removed-from-fbo/

pjluckyman
10-19-2013, 10:40 AM
Unique dress uniforms: yes
Unique service uniforms: yes
Unique utility uniforms for the same working environment: No -- use name tapes to ID your service.

My sentiments exactly! Never should have been an issue in the first place. Marines should have proposed the change to the SECDEF and then we should have all changed if it was the best camo. Time to un#*)k this mess of utility uniforms and gear.

Stalwart
10-19-2013, 11:30 AM
I should have edited that to say in utility uniforms I would like to see the Marines and Navy keep their 8-point covers, but in the same camo pattern.

Gonzo432
10-19-2013, 12:22 PM
Unique dress uniforms: yes
Unique service uniforms: yes
Unique utility uniforms for the same working environment: No -- use name tapes to ID your service.

You mean wear green fatigues in-garrison and wear issued camo appropriate for the deployment area? That sounds really familiar.......... almost like we've done that before..... Deja vu all over again? (thank you Yogi Berra)

MisterBen
11-28-2013, 01:48 AM
Supposedly Multicam was selected for the US Army but due to the budget issues, appears there will be no announcement.

MisterBen
03-01-2014, 08:03 PM
Update - Now the Army is looking at the Corps for solutions

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/02/27/army-considers-marine-corps-camo-for-new-uniforms.html

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2014/02/army_will_adopt_marine_camoufl.html

TomTom093
03-08-2014, 04:28 AM
Thing is-these new tests and the cost of clothing the Army in MARPAT/AOR would be far more expensive than just paying Crye (the company that designed Multicam)-Crye is asking for $24.8 million for the rights. The standard uniforms wouldn't be any higher costs than they are now (just stop printing the uniforms in UCP and print them in whatever camo they go with). But add in the more expensive costs of replacing OCIE and it will quickly add up.

The sticking point seems to be the Army doesn't feel it should pay as much as Crye is asking. Unfortunately, Army logic will probably win out, a new set of trials will be conducted, whatever winner will be selected as the DOD-wide uniform and the uniform fustercluck will continue. Another point I want to add-if either MARPAT or AOR are selected, the Army will have to develop a transitional pattern-not only for CONUS use, but also regions that aren't light enough for full desert but not dark enough for Woodland. Since the pattern will be new, all services would need to adopt it. Hopefully the Army comes to it's senses, pays Crye, develops desert and woodland patterns based on OCP (patterns that would be backwards compatible with the existing stock of OCIE), all of the DOD adopts it, and we can focus on shit that actually matters.

MisterBen
03-09-2014, 10:38 PM
TomTom,

Excellent response and if the Army would go with a better MARPAT pattern that would have been US4CES but Congress killed that option. The best thing is to have the Navy or Marines just work with the Army and Air Force on using their patterns.

MisterBen
03-11-2014, 08:35 PM
Response from the SMA

"And from my perspective, it's less about that for the Navy and Air Force. They are generally on ships or around an airfield whereas both the Marines and the Army are engaged in direct combat and concealment in camouflage is very, very important."

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/03/11/armys-top-enlistee-new-camo-delayed-by-congress.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=1

sandsjames
03-11-2014, 09:57 PM
1 combat uniform...there are dress uniforms to distinguish the services.

You'd think that people would be more worried about being concealed than looking different from the other services. Whichever combat uniform is the most concealing (in general) should be what everyone is wearing downrange.

MisterBen
03-19-2014, 03:38 PM
Article on why the Army did not purchase multicam.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140318/NEWS/303180064/MultiCam-maker-Camo-talks-broke-down-over-cost