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Shaken1976
08-01-2013, 06:38 PM
I really have to wonder what the divorce rate is in the military. Does it change if it is someone they knew from before they were in the military vs someone met while on AD? What plays a factor?

In my shop alone out of 9 people there are seven divorces. CRAZY

Bunch
08-01-2013, 06:51 PM
Something like 3.5% for the entire military. Air Force is the highest of all branches with 3.9%. I will go ahead and be the first one to blame it on the PT test.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/01/23/military-divorce-rate-down-slightly-in-2012.html?comp=700001075741&rank=2

Measure Man
08-01-2013, 06:54 PM
Something like 3.5% for the entire military. Air Force is the highest of all branches with 3.9%. I will go ahead and be the first one to blame it on the PT test.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/01/23/military-divorce-rate-down-slightly-in-2012.html?comp=700001075741&rank=2


Enlisted female soldiers and Marines, however, continue to experience the highest rate of divorce -- 9.4 percent and 9.3 percent respectively. In the Army, the female enlisted divorce rate is more than triple that of enlisted males. Still, those rates are down from the 2011 rates of 9.6 percent in Army and 9.8 percent in the Marine Corps.

That's interesting.

71Fish
08-01-2013, 06:57 PM
I don't have the stats, but based on my own personal experience and observation, I would say the military is somewhat higher than the civilian world. I think one factor especially for younger, people is waving that extra pay/base housing carrot in front of them. That causes people to make bad decisions, like get married before they are ready or even really know each other. If they did away with the extra pay (keep single and married at the same rate) that may reduce marriages, then reduced divorces would surely follow.

Another factor I saw was the looooong (sarcastic) sepration people have from their high school sweethearts during basic training, so the feel they need to marry them to show they really love each other.

Third factor relating to the looooong (sarcasm again) basic training. Chances are half the folks are virgins anyway, and the other half may have been laid only once or twice, but feel they've gone 6-8 whole weeks without "it" so they have to marry the first piece of ass they get after BMT.

Bunch
08-01-2013, 07:03 PM
This is interesting also:


Preliminary Results
Preliminary analyses for all three stages of the project have been completed.
Linear probability analyses of the entire military population 1995-2002 indicates that
compared to comparable civilians, military men and women are more likely to get
married, and that military men are less likely to get divorced while serving in the
military. Relative to comparable civilians, military women are more likely to get
divorced. However, upon exiting the military, both veteran men and women have higher
rates of divorce than comparable civilians, as indicted in the NLSY-79 using fixed effects
models. Taken together, these findings suggest that the military provides incentives to
marry (for men and women) and remain married (for men), but that once the
servicemembers return to civilian life and these incentives are absent, they suffer higher
rates of marital dissolution than comparable civilians. This suggests that the military may
encourage unions that would not normally be formalized into marriage in a civilian
context, and are consequently more fragile upon exit from the military.

http://paa2008.princeton.edu/papers/81696

jshiver15
08-01-2013, 07:52 PM
I used to be surprised by divorces in the Air Force, but now it is just common-place. I have friends who bring up talks about divorce before their first anniversary. I always tell them the same thing: the first couple of years will be the most trying. My wife and I have been together since 2002, I enlisted in 2006, and we married in 2007. Even with us being together for 5 years, the first year was pretty turbulent. It was a whole new way of life for the both of us. We were both home sick. I wasn't used to being in the Air Force yet. And shift work took its toll. But we stuck it out! We took our oath (to each other) seriously. I think there are way too many people, especially from my generation, that have no goddamn convictions.

Shit happens, I get it. But I see people resorting to divorce at the drop of a hat. I know several females in the military who have been married at least 3 times. Not to single women out, just my observation. In fact, one girl I was in training with in 2010 had been in the Air Force for less than three years and had to change her name 3 separate times (her ex-husband was actually in the course with us, which made it awkward). But less than a year after that, she had re-married and divorced yet again.

Even today, a "co-worker" made a comment about how I shouldn't apply my morals to other people. I had to explain, because it wasn't getting through to him, that I think there is a general responsibility to take your vowels seriously. Not for you, but for your partner. I just don't see why this isn't common perception. And in all honesty, it makes me sad.

Drackore
08-01-2013, 07:52 PM
If the military wanted you to have a family, it would have issued it to ya. I almost believe this mentality and I am on my second marriage.

Now that we're attacking religion left and right and homosexuals can join the military, I think it's just time that the government as a whole drops the whole marriage thing. Be together or not...have multiple partners...it's all irrelevant.

Marriage is a religious practice anyways.

jshiver15
08-01-2013, 07:58 PM
If the military wanted you to have a family, it would have issued it to ya. I almost believe this mentality and I am on my second marriage.

Now that we're attacking religion left and right and homosexuals can join the military, I think it's just time that the government as a whole drops the whole marriage thing. Be together or not...have multiple partners...it's all irrelevant.

Marriage is a religious practice anyways.

Have to disagree. I'm not at all religious and I believe in marriage. I view it as a legal bond to another person.

Not only that, it helps provide any cushion for her and my son in the event that something happens to me.

Class5Kayaker
08-01-2013, 08:14 PM
Something like 3.5% for the entire military. Air Force is the highest of all branches with 3.9%. I will go ahead and be the first one to blame it on the PT test.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/01/23/military-divorce-rate-down-slightly-in-2012.html?comp=700001075741&rank=2

When I first saw your 3.5% statistic I was like, "No freaking way it's that's low."

After reading the article, I realized that rate is for the number of people that got divorced for just that year . So if you look at it as 3.5% of the military population get divorced each year, and the entire population stays in for an overall average of 10 years (I'm just throwing that number out there), then you're looking at 35% overall # of personnel who have been divorced at some time during their career in the military. No way to hammer down the actual number due to how much turnover there is, but I'd say easily 35% if not closer to 50% (isn't that the statistic you always hear about America? 50% of all marriages end in divorce.)

71Fish
08-01-2013, 08:17 PM
Have to disagree. I'm not at all religious and I believe in marriage. I view it as a legal bond to another person.

Not only that, it helps provide any cushion for her and my son in the event that something happens to me.

I agree, neither my wife or I are religious. I believe in the institution of marriage (and some should be institutionalized), plus it shows my commitment to her.
I don't know the true origins, but marriage probably stems from religion. We'll have to get Rusty to chime in since he knows something about everything.

Shaken1976
08-01-2013, 08:22 PM
I used to be surprised by divorces in the Air Force, but now it is just common-place. I have friends who bring up talks about divorce before their first anniversary. I always tell them the same thing: the first couple of years will be the most trying. My wife and I have been together since 2002, I enlisted in 2006, and we married in 2007. Even with us being together for 5 years, the first year was pretty turbulent. It was a whole new way of life for the both of us. We were both home sick. I wasn't used to being in the Air Force yet. And shift work took its toll. But we stuck it out! We took our oath (to each other) seriously. I think there are way too many people, especially from my generation, that have no goddamn convictions.

Shit happens, I get it. But I see people resorting to divorce at the drop of a hat. I know several females in the military who have been married at least 3 times. Not to single women out, just my observation. In fact, one girl I was in training with in 2010 had been in the Air Force for less than three years and had to change her name 3 separate times (her ex-husband was actually in the course with us, which made it awkward). But less than a year after that, she had re-married and divorced yet again.

Even today, a "co-worker" made a comment about how I shouldn't apply my morals to other people. I had to explain, because it wasn't getting through to him, that I think there is a general responsibility to take your vowels seriously. Not for you, but for your partner. I just don't see why this isn't common perception. And in all honesty, it makes me sad.

I tried very hard to make my marriage work. I stood by him through way more than most would. But it got to the point that it was taking a huge toll on my child and me. I coudn't do it anymore. I couldn't trust him to be clean and sober.

Measure Man
08-01-2013, 08:26 PM
I think there is a general responsibility to take your vowels seriously.

rght! Whr wld scty b wtht vwls?

jshiver15
08-01-2013, 08:27 PM
I tried very hard to make my marriage work. I stood by him through way more than most would. But it got to the point that it was taking a huge toll on my child and me. I coudn't do it anymore. I couldn't trust him to be clean and sober.

I'm vaguely familiar with your story and I have to side with your choice on this. Yes, it does happen that people aren't who they appear to be. But you seem to have your shit together and probably made a sound decision when it came to marrying this guy. But it just sounds like he wasn't holding up his end of the bargain and you had no choice but to cut your losses.

However, I've literally seen people get divorced after only months of marriage because they honestly had no clue how much they disliked each other. Like I said, it makes me sad.

Measure Man
08-01-2013, 08:29 PM
Does getting a divorce necessarily mean you should not have gotten married?

Better to have loved and lost then never have loved at all?

jshiver15
08-01-2013, 08:29 PM
rght! Whr wld scty b wtht vwls?

LMAO! You got me! I even looked at it before posting it and thinking "is that right?"

Damn you, Absolut.

jshiver15
08-01-2013, 08:34 PM
Does getting a divorce necessarily mean you should not have gotten married?

Better to have loved and lost then never have loved at all?

I would agree that it's not that big of a deal if all people were afforded the same rights to marriage. Not to threadjack, but it's 2013 and there are still states that don't recognize same sex marriage.

</end threadjack>

imported_DannyJ
08-01-2013, 08:36 PM
Does getting a divorce necessarily mean you should not have gotten married?

Better to have loved and lost then never have loved at all?

I suppose it depends on the circumstances. I'm a believer that all experience (good or bad) is a good thing.

tiredretiredE7
08-01-2013, 08:56 PM
Does getting a divorce necessarily mean you should not have gotten married?

Better to have loved and lost then never have loved at all?

Yes, should have not gotten married ever to an American woman. I did not and will not EVER get married. I had the awesome experience of dating women from numerous European countries and American women in general do NOT help sustain a strained marriage. An example was a Dutch woman I was dating and I got into an in-depth conversion about why I never got married. Women in the Netherlands look at relationships very differently than American women because prostitution is legal in the entire country of the Netherlands so most women do not want to look like a prostitute and go out of their way to ensure they do not convey the perception of prostitute behavior. An example is some of the reasons American women will withhold sex from their husbands. Some typical examples are anger over the husband's failure to purchase flowers or some other meaningless gift for a birthday or anniversary. In the Netherlands this woman would be immediately branded as a prostitute because she is withholding sex since an expected monetary gift was not purchased. In America, women withhold sex for many other reason but most of the reasons are related to something material that requires money. The Dutch women I knew view this as unacceptable because it is very close to if not prostitution. I have discussed this with American women who ask me why I never got married the general response from the women is "I never looked at it like that".

So here I am happily single for life watching many of the men around me struggle with dating American women and pay child support for other marriages.

**This is not for the very few American women who have never withheld sex from their boyfriends/husbands over a forgotten gift.**

RobotChicken
08-01-2013, 08:58 PM
"Cant even stay married to 'em; how do you work with them?"

USN - Retired
08-01-2013, 09:16 PM
When I first saw your 3.5% statistic I was like, "No freaking way it's that's low."

After reading the article, I realized that rate is for the number of people that got divorced for just that year . So if you look at it as 3.5% of the military population get divorced each year, and the entire population stays in for an overall average of 10 years (I'm just throwing that number out there), then you're looking at 35% overall # of personnel who have been divorced at some time during their career in the military. No way to hammer down the actual number due to how much turnover there is, but I'd say easily 35% if not closer to 50% (isn't that the statistic you always hear about America? 50% of all marriages end in divorce.)

Astute observation.

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. The military leadership likes to use the 3.5% number when talking about divorces in the military because 3.5% sounds like a small number and makes military divorce rate look small. Additionally, I wonder what data the military leadership used to calculate that 3.5% number? I suspect that the military leadership pulled that 3.5 % number out of their arse.

71Fish
08-01-2013, 09:22 PM
Yes, should have not gotten married ever to an American woman. I did not and will not EVER get married. I had the awesome experience of dating women from numerous European countries and American women in general do NOT help sustain a strained marriage. An example was a Dutch woman I was dating and I got into an in-depth conversion about why I never got married. Women in the Netherlands look at relationships very differently than American women because prostitution is legal in the entire country of the Netherlands so most women do not want to look like a prostitute and go out of their way to ensure they do not convey the perception of prostitute behavior. An example is some of the reasons American women will withhold sex from their husbands. Some typical examples are anger over the husband's failure to purchase flowers or some other meaningless gift for a birthday or anniversary. In the Netherlands this woman would be immediately branded as a prostitute because she is withholding sex since an expected monetary gift was not purchased. In America, women withhold sex for many other reason but most of the reasons are related to something material that requires money. The Dutch women I knew view this as unacceptable because it is very close to if not prostitution. I have discussed this with American women who ask me why I never got married the general response from the women is "I never looked at it like that".

So here I am happily single for life watching many of the men around me struggle with dating American women and pay child support for other marriages.

**This is not for the very few American women who have never withheld sex from their boyfriends/husbands over a forgotten gift.**

If you're looking at marriage only from a sex point of view, you're looking at it very wrong.

Edit: But you're correct about (most/many) American women. I want nothing to do with them.
I did have some of the best sex with a German girlfriend.
And my wife is from Argentina.

RobotChicken
08-01-2013, 09:24 PM
Yes, should have not gotten married ever to an American woman. I did not and will not EVER get married. I had the awesome experience of dating women from numerous European countries and American women in general do NOT help sustain a strained marriage. An example was a Dutch woman I was dating and I got into an in-depth conversion about why I never got married. Women in the Netherlands look at relationships very differently than American women because prostitution is legal in the entire country of the Netherlands so most women do not want to look like a prostitute and go out of their way to ensure they do not convey the perception of prostitute behavior. An example is some of the reasons American women will withhold sex from their husbands. Some typical examples are anger over the husband's failure to purchase flowers or some other meaningless gift for a birthday or anniversary. In the Netherlands this woman would be immediately branded as a prostitute because she is withholding sex since an expected monetary gift was not purchased. In America, women withhold sex for many other reason but most of the reasons are related to something material that requires money. The Dutch women I knew view this as unacceptable because it is very close to if not prostitution. I have discussed this with American women who ask me why I never got married the general response from the women is "I never looked at it like that".

So here I am happily single for life watching many of the men around me struggle with dating American women and pay child support for other marriages.

**This is not for the very few American women who have never withheld sex from their boyfriends/husbands over a forgotten gift.**

"Concur 'RET 7'; Am a Proud member of the 'SINK' club too!" LOL! (need look no farther then AD retirement 50/50 split for servicing charges..)

Rusty Jones
08-01-2013, 09:30 PM
I don't have the stats, but based on my own personal experience and observation, I would say the military is somewhat higher than the civilian world. I think one factor especially for younger, people is waving that extra pay/base housing carrot in front of them. That causes people to make bad decisions, like get married before they are ready or even really know each other. If they did away with the extra pay (keep single and married at the same rate) that may reduce marriages, then reduced divorces would surely follow.

I don't think that the difference in BAH is the problem. On average, the difference is only about $200 or less for each paygrade. Who the hell gets married for $200?

The problem is the fact that people below a certain paygrade can't draw BAH ... AT ALL. So they marry in order to get out of the barracks/dorms.

It's hard to fault them for that. The barracks/dorms doesn't exactly provide the "homey" atmosphere that being in the military has you longing for. Marriage also provides a sense of "stability" in one's life, that being in the military takes away from.

If you ask me, I think the military does this on purpose. If you have dependants, you're more likely reenlist.


Third factor relating to the looooong (sarcasm again) basic training. Chances are half the folks are virgins anyway, and the other half may have been laid only once or twice, but feel they've gone 6-8 whole weeks without "it" so they have to marry the first piece of ass they get after BMT.

I don't think this is the case. Maybe it was back in the 80's, but EVERYONE is getting laid these days. Getting laid doesn't even make a teenage male "cool" anymore.


I agree, neither my wife or I are religious. I believe in the institution of marriage (and some should be institutionalized), plus it shows my commitment to her.
I don't know the true origins, but marriage probably stems from religion. We'll have to get Rusty to chime in since he knows something about everything.

Okay, I see a hook. I don't know what to do with it.

USN - Retired
08-01-2013, 09:30 PM
Does getting a divorce necessarily mean you should not have gotten married?

Better to have loved and lost then never have loved at all?

That sounds like propaganda from the divorce industry.


Does getting a divorce necessarily mean you should not have gotten married?

For most career military men, the answer is "yes", especially when they realize that they will lose a part of their military retirement pay.


Better to have loved and lost then never have loved at all?

Do you need marriage in order to have love?

technomage1
08-01-2013, 09:36 PM
I don't think that the difference in BAH is the problem. On average, the difference is only about $200 or less for each paygrade. Who the hell gets married for $200?

The problem is the fact that people below a certain paygrade can't draw BAH ... AT ALL. So they marry in order to get out of the barracks/dorms.

It's hard to fault them for that. The barracks/dorms doesn't exactly provide the "homey" atmosphere that being in the military has you longing for. Marriage also provides a sense of "stability" in one's life, that being in the military takes away from.

If you ask me, I think the military does this on purpose. If you have dependants, you're more likely reenlist.



I don't think this is the case. Maybe it was back in the 80's, but EVERYONE is getting laid these days. Getting laid doesn't even make a teenage male "cool" anymore.



Okay, I see a hook. I don't know what to do with it.

I don't know where the $200 comes from. As a single E7 mine is over $425 less per month than a married E7. I make about what a married E4 does in this area. Could be my area is the outlier but I don't know.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't recommend getting married just to get more money. But you're right in pointing out junior enlisted get treated better when they're married.

zeke7142003
08-01-2013, 11:46 PM
I had a friend get married to get out of the dorms (overseas). He married a bar girl from the Philippines.....it didn't last. You can take the girl out of the bar, but you will have a hard time taking the bar out of the girl.

Measure Man
08-01-2013, 11:58 PM
I knew two couples that got married while I was in Tech School.

Last I heard from them, both were going strong 20+ years later.

Silverback
08-02-2013, 12:22 AM
I knew two couples that got married while I was in Tech School.

Last I heard from them, both were going strong 20+ years later.


Wow! That is really rare. Good for them.

Measure Man
08-02-2013, 12:32 AM
Wow! That is really rare. Good for them.

Well...I had an 8-month Tech School, so maybe that had something to do with it, now that I think about it.

CrustySMSgt
08-02-2013, 06:56 AM
I know of very few people who haven't had a "practice marriage," me included. I stuck it out for 13 years, trying to make it work. Not to say I didn't play a part in the end result, but I do think I went more than half way to trying to fix the problems to no avail.

I can't really say how things work in the civilian world, since after 28 years 99.9% of my friends have been military, but there are far more issues to deal with in the military than most civilians have to deal with. COnstant separations, developing bonds under "stress" like tech school and deployments, things like dorms pushing young people to interact/socialize off duty more than their civilian counterparts, leading to impulsive marriages or getting married just to get out of the dorms. Marriages of convinience to get a join spouse assignment, pressure from your high school sweetheart back home... and many more.

The military lifestyle makes the stigma/ramifications of divorce less pervasive compared to most civilians. Get divorced in your little home town and you're stuck amongst all the folks you grew up with, your spouses friends/family... with the transient nature of the military you don't have long term ties with anyone you work/live with and a clean slate is only a PCS away.

No doubt I did some dumb shit in my first marriage, and how I dealt with it taught me so much. Then I was lucky enough to marry another military member and DAMN is life so much easier. Other than the shitty part of the join spouse assignment system sucking and alternating deployments resulting in us having spent a total of 6 of the last 12 years stationed or deployed apart, it is SO nice to be married to someone who's been there/done that, and understands what it's like to be on the other end of a TDY/deployment. Life couldn't be better! And our E17 retirement pay is sure gonna be nice!

RetC141BFCC
08-08-2013, 02:13 PM
Does getting a divorce necessarily mean you should not have gotten married?

Better to have loved and lost then never have loved at all?

I think your wrong on that one. If you have ever been divorced you know how expensive it is. I was so broke at one time as an E-6 due to temporary alimony temporary child support (till the hearing.) I went to my shirt and got a temp room in the dorm. Seems that a woman can leave her husband while he is deployed empty his bank account and go to court and get temporary court order. If you think the soldiers and sailors civil relief act will protect you think again. A judge in NJ appointed me a lawyer to represent my interest while I was deployed. Guess who got to pay for that. So it is better to run then get married or at least get a prenup. Yes baby I love you but sign right here. SO ITS NEVER NETTER TO HAVE MARRIEAD AND LOST

raider8169
08-08-2013, 02:41 PM
I think your wrong on that one. If you have ever been divorced you know how expensive it is. I was so broke at one time as an E-6 due to temporary alimony temporary child support (till the hearing.) I went to my shirt and got a temp room in the dorm. Seems that a woman can leave her husband while he is deployed empty his bank account and go to court and get temporary court order. If you think the soldiers and sailors civil relief act will protect you think again. A judge in NJ appointed me a lawyer to represent my interest while I was deployed. Guess who got to pay for that. So it is better to run then get married or at least get a prenup. Yes baby I love you but sign right here. SO ITS NEVER NETTER TO HAVE MARRIEAD AND LOST

I hear a lot of people say sign a prenup, not sure if that will apply your service time after the marriage. In any case the spouse does travel around with the military member, if you PCS oversea's, they have a limited chase to get a job. Not every job they get will be able to turn into a career. If they are with you for 15 years and then break it off is it fair for them to walk away empty handed? Granted there are way to many factors to make this black and white but if you are willing to marry the person in the first place you have to be willing to accept what may come out of it to include losing half your retirement check.

imported_DannyJ
08-08-2013, 02:42 PM
I think your wrong on that one. If you have ever been divorced you know how expensive it is. I was so broke at one time as an E-6 due to temporary alimony temporary child support (till the hearing.) I went to my shirt and got a temp room in the dorm. Seems that a woman can leave her husband while he is deployed empty his bank account and go to court and get temporary court order. If you think the soldiers and sailors civil relief act will protect you think again. A judge in NJ appointed me a lawyer to represent my interest while I was deployed. Guess who got to pay for that. So it is better to run then get married or at least get a prenup. Yes baby I love you but sign right here. SO ITS NEVER NETTER TO HAVE MARRIEAD AND LOST

Wow. Bitter much?

RetC141BFCC
08-08-2013, 03:30 PM
Wow. Bitter much?

Bitter now nope back then yes. Now very happy. I got my retirement, got a divorce in NY state where the marriage took place. Grounds were abandonment. Had my lawyer put one sentence in the divorce degree “all property of this marriage has been divided.” Guess what in NY State you have two years to reopen a divorce degree or its final. Since she never showed up I won by default. She can never got a dime of my retirement.

20+Years
08-08-2013, 03:43 PM
NY/NJ scared the hell outta me. I got divorced in Texas, child support under Texas law. She wanted to move the child support up there where she moved and then repetition because of the higher rates. Bleh.

RetC141BFCC
08-08-2013, 03:53 PM
I hear a lot of people say sign a prenup, not sure if that will apply your service time after the marriage. In any case the spouse does travel around with the military member, if you PCS oversea's, they have a limited chase to get a job. Not every job they get will be able to turn into a career. If they are with you for 15 years and then break it off is it fair for them to walk away empty handed? Granted there are way to many factors to make this black and white but if you are willing to marry the person in the first place you have to be willing to accept what may come out of it to include losing half your retirement check.

You might be shocked to see me agree with you here. If I broke it off If I fooled around on my spouse hit her was an alcoholic or drug user given her any good reason to leave she does deserve half. If a woman decides she does not want to be married anymore and leaves you because of your job in the military well that’s her problem. When the USFPA first came out I thought it was fair. It was designed so a man could not leave his wife high and dry and just trade her in for a younger model. It was not designed to reward a spouse for cheating or running off with a new man while he is deployed.

Rusty Jones
08-08-2013, 03:55 PM
Texas Child Support law is a bitch. It's one of the few states that can base your child support on the highest paying occupation that you qualify for, even if you're working a job that pays less than that.

The GOOD thing about Texas law, is that child support is a fixed percentage of your income, adjusted only by how many other children you're supporting. In other words, your child support will never go up just because she decides she's going to quit her job and park her fat ass on the couch, or because her current husband had enough of her bullshit and left too.

RetC141BFCC
08-08-2013, 03:56 PM
Ny child support law you pay until child is 21 in school or not. NJ until child is self Sufficient so if young suzie or Johnny is going on the 5 year plan for a 2 year degree you are still paying child support.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-08-2013, 04:02 PM
You might be shocked to see me agree with you here. If I broke it off If I fooled around on my spouse hit her was an alcoholic or drug user given her any good reason to leave she does deserve half. If a woman decides she does not want to be married anymore and leaves you because of your job in the military well that’s her problem. When the USFPA first came out I thought it was fair. It was designed so a man could not leave his wife high and dry and just trade her in for a younger model. It was not designed to reward a spouse for cheating or running off with a new man while he is deployed.

The division of marital property isn't about rewarding or punishing anyone.

It is about the equitable division of property and that's it.

Who slept with who and who drank too much Budwiser can be used to establish cause for divorce but it doesn't factor into the division of property.

Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 04:05 PM
The division of marital property isn't about rewarding or punishing anyone.

It is about the equitable division of property and that's it.

Who slept with who and who drank too much Budwiser can be used to establish cause for divorce but it doesn't factor into the division of property.

It does in some states. Especially when it comes to infidelity. If you can prove that your spouse cheated you can end up with more of the assets and less of the debt. From what I understand from some reading I have been doing, as I have this situation going on now, with proof the judge can decide he gets nothing. The judge can also "award" him up to 75% of the debt unless I can prove that the debt was used by him to take care of his mistress.

RetC141BFCC
08-08-2013, 04:19 PM
The division of marital property isn't about rewarding or punishing anyone.

It is about the equitable division of property and that's it.

Who slept with who and who drank too much Budwiser can be used to establish cause for divorce but it doesn't factor into the division of property.

And there lies the problem. How does something I have not earned yet become property? If a man or woman gets out of the service at 10 years he or she gets nothing because there is no pension earned. So if the ex-wife or ex-husband is entitled then what is half of nothing? If you read the law it’s very interesting it is written in a male gender it specifically says the man will pay the woman nowhere does it say a woman would pay the man. So if I was a female and got a divorce I would say this does not apply to me. But under the USFPA it can the act only gives courts the authority to divide the pension. Here is a great fact sheet written by the AF JAG a few years ago

http://www.afjag.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-081204-033.pdf

Absinthe Anecdote
08-08-2013, 04:23 PM
It does in some states. Especially when it comes to infidelity. If you can prove that your spouse cheated you can end up with more of the assets and less of the debt. From what I understand from some reading I have been doing, as I have this situation going on now, with proof the judge can decide he gets nothing. The judge can also "award" him up to 75% of the debt unless I can prove that the debt was used by him to take care of his mistress.

I'm not trying to sound snide but good luck proving something like that.

In my experience the judges really don't want to get into dissecting who wronged who in the marriage, unless you have very compelling evidence. Even then it isn't likely that they'll award you anything that justifies all the money you'll spend on paying your lawyer to build a winning case.

Unless it is an very large sum of money at stake, it probably doesn't make fiscal sense to go the route of a big court battle.

Either way, good luck!

raider8169
08-08-2013, 04:29 PM
Ny child support law you pay until child is 21 in school or not. NJ until child is self Sufficient so if young suzie or Johnny is going on the 5 year plan for a 2 year degree you are still paying child support.

By this point though you should be paying the money directly to the child instead of the spouse.

SomeRandomGuy
08-08-2013, 04:37 PM
By this point though you should be paying the money directly to the child instead of the spouse.

Exactly! And most "good parents" would be providing some sort of support for their college age children anyways. I think it is sad when the court has to order a parent to do something that most loving parents would do without a second thought.

Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 04:38 PM
I'm not trying to sound snide but good luck proving something like that.

In my experience the judges really don't want to get into dissecting who wronged who in the marriage, unless you have very compelling evidence. Even then it isn't likely that they'll award you anything that justifies all the money you'll spend on paying your lawyer to build a winning case.

Unless it is an very large sum of money at stake, it probably doesn't make fiscal sense to go the route of a big court battle.

Either way, good luck!

I have no plans of going full a big court battle unless he makes that choice. I am being very reasonable considering everything he has put me through. I am asking for half of the debt he accrued and left me with. I am not trying to get everything I paid off already or any of the rest.

I do have compelling evidence. I have e-mails and texts and voicemails from him. Also...he was arrested on drug charges and DUI. I won't use it unless he decides to be an idiot and try and go after my retirement like he likes to threaten.

Measure Man
08-08-2013, 04:38 PM
Ny child support law you pay until child is 21 in school or not. NJ until child is self Sufficient so if young suzie or Johnny is going on the 5 year plan for a 2 year degree you are still paying child support.

I got divorced in Ohio. Child support stopped at age 18 or when no longer attending High School full time, whichever came later.

I'm done since May.

Kind of a wash though becasue my wife had the same deal with her ex-...and her daughter graduated in June...lol So, I stopped paying mine, she stopped getting hers. Somehow, we end up sending both to college though...ouch!

Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 04:40 PM
Exactly! And most "good parents" would be providing some sort of support for their college age children anyways. I think it is sad when the court has to order a parent to do something that most loving parents would do without a second thought.

My mom gave us our child support money starting at 14. It wasn't much...like $175/month. But with that money we were responsible for our clothes and fun stuff. She bought school clothes and shoes. But if I wanted a pair of Doc Martins that was on me. We were also expected to sock some of that away if we wanted a car or whatever. I paid $600 for my first car and had the money to pay my first years insurance. I would probably do the same with my kiddo.

RetC141BFCC
08-08-2013, 05:10 PM
By this point though you should be paying the money directly to the child instead of the spouse.

I had to go to court in NJ in order to be allowed to pay my daughter. Daughter moved out at 20 ex wife kept the money. Judge allowed me to pay daughter directly done paying now but there are some woman and nowadays man who can make a living off of haveing a former spouse in the military

Rusty Jones
08-08-2013, 06:46 PM
I'm not trying to sound snide but good luck proving something like that.

In my experience the judges really don't want to get into dissecting who wronged who in the marriage, unless you have very compelling evidence. Even then it isn't likely that they'll award you anything that justifies all the money you'll spend on paying your lawyer to build a winning case.

Unless it is an very large sum of money at stake, it probably doesn't make fiscal sense to go the route of a big court battle.

Either way, good luck!


It's actually not that difficult. Only in criminal cases is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" required. Outside of criminal cases, only a "preponderance of evidence" is required.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-08-2013, 09:52 PM
It's actually not that difficult. Only in criminal cases is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" required. Outside of criminal cases, only a "preponderance of evidence" is required.

I think you and I had talked about this before. If memory serves me correct you also got divorced in Virginia but we had very different experiences.

My first lawyer really took me for a rube; he made a lot of big promises about getting me primary custody of my kids, burned through his 70 hour retainer in record time and then moved to Iowa before the case went to trail.

My second lawyer explained it to me in plain but painful terms that I didn’t have a chance in hell of winning primary custody and it didn’t matter who she slept with.

He said that for a judge in Virginia to take primary custody away from the mother they have to be a criminal or a drug addict.

smart45556
08-08-2013, 11:51 PM
In my experience, American women arent witholding sex because of a forgotten gift or lack of material things, they are witholding the sex because you forgot the anniversary/birthday/special occasion that the woman has held near-and-dear to her heart. Women in America use the sex-holdout tactic because that is one avenue for them that is very effective! Most guys, when faced with the prospect of no-sex for a long time after getting sex regularly will cave or try to make amends, usually with a token gift. But it doesnt always and shouldnt always be with a purchased item. Sometimes the best tokens of love cant be bought.

But then again, what do I know? Im only the gay friend for about 5 married spouses who hears the back end of the conversations from these women when discussing their marriages.

imported_Renazance
08-09-2013, 01:12 PM
I had a friend get married to get out of the dorms (overseas). He married a bar girl from the Philippines.....it didn't last. You can take the girl out of the bar, but you will have a hard time taking the bar out of the girl.

He used her to get out of the dorms, she used him to get that US citizenship.

imported_Renazance
08-09-2013, 01:51 PM
I used to be surprised by divorces in the Air Force, but now it is just common-place. I have friends who bring up talks about divorce before their first anniversary. I always tell them the same thing: the first couple of years will be the most trying. My wife and I have been together since 2002, I enlisted in 2006, and we married in 2007. Even with us being together for 5 years, the first year was pretty turbulent. It was a whole new way of life for the both of us. We were both home sick. I wasn't used to being in the Air Force yet. And shift work took its toll. But we stuck it out! We took our oath (to each other) seriously. I think there are way too many people, especially from my generation, that have no goddamn convictions.

Shit happens, I get it. But I see people resorting to divorce at the drop of a hat. I know several females in the military who have been married at least 3 times. Not to single women out, just my observation. In fact, one girl I was in training with in 2010 had been in the Air Force for less than three years and had to change her name 3 separate times (her ex-husband was actually in the course with us, which made it awkward). But less than a year after that, she had re-married and divorced yet again.
Even today, a "co-worker" made a comment about how I shouldn't apply my morals to other people. I had to explain, because it wasn't getting through to him, that I think there is a general responsibility to take your vowels seriously. Not for you, but for your partner. I just don't see why this isn't common perception. And in all honesty, it makes me sad.

There was a female like that in my squadron. She PCS'd in with one name, 6 months later she went by another name, and then a few months later she suckered a guy in our squadron to marry her, so she took his name. So yeah, 3 different names in less than a year. Girl was a mess. I'm sure she's now on her fourth or fifth last name by now.

Her name change was so constant that no one was ever current on her name. Our shop just referred to her by an amalgamation of all the names she'd used. So Williams, Martin, and Ramos* became Wilmaramos.
*names changed to protect the idiotic

Rusty Jones
08-09-2013, 02:36 PM
My second lawyer explained it to me in plain but painful terms that I didn’t have a chance in hell of winning primary custody and it didn’t matter who she slept with.

He said that for a judge in Virginia to take primary custody away from the mother they have to be a criminal or a drug addict.

Really?

I divorced my ex-wife for adultery. I had actually adopted her two daughters. She wasn't present at court, but didn't have to be because it was uncontested and we had a marital settlement agreement.

Despite that; the judge actually tried to push custody onto me; even though I didn't want it and the marital settlement agreement had her with custody.

denmom
08-09-2013, 04:20 PM
I really don't think there is a set reason as to why a marriage lasts in the military or doesn't.

My husband and I just celebrated our 16th anniversary. We are definately an exception to the rule though. We were married 4 months after our first date and only 2 months after tech school. We were stationed apart almost a year before he PCS'd to my base. We still keep in contact with our friends from our first base and all 5 couples are still married (anywhere from 16-18 years).