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sharkhunter
07-30-2013, 10:19 PM
All three airmen are NCOs of equal rank...who is worse off and how would you rate the following airmen?

Airman 1
- takes many college classes
works hard at primary duties and secondary duties
follows orders given by others but doesn't exactly lead at maintenance
ensures work center meets TO standard in AF database system but the consequence to that is that the Airman is seen at the computer a lot
has only taken 2 PME course (not official) in one year.
Volunteered minimally at base level activities off duty.
Is involved with base organizations and organizes both squadron and base level morale events/activities.
Sometimes has to take time off to help family but has no paperwork in one year
met all standards met in initial feedback...EPR close rating...4

Airman 2
- volunteers 35 of the 52 weekends out of the year for both the base and local community
sits behind a desk to do primary duties which are mostly admin and is not question openly about computer work
does not get involve in maintenance unless there is an emergency or critical outage but tells people what maintenance to do
has squadron level additional duties (including training manager)
is involved in AF level professional organization
squadron Safety/SABC/CPR representative.
No paperwork at all...EPR closeout rating...5

Airman 3
-does not volunteer unless told to do so (mostly during the duty day)
took 3 college classes in one year
does minimal work during duty day, performs maintenance and goes home
work accomplish is average at best
co-workers do not have confidence in Airman
is not involved in squadron or base activities/organizations unless told or force to get involved
has some issues that required paperwork
assisted in completing a project...EPR closeout rating...5

efmbman
07-30-2013, 10:31 PM
Where are the PT scores?

imported_AFKILO7
07-30-2013, 10:37 PM
I'll bite. Are the three NCO's supervised by different people? Do they work in the same area? If they are supervised by different people and work in a the same area why is #3 rated higher than #1?

sharkhunter
07-30-2013, 10:48 PM
Airman 1, 86
Airman 2, 76
Airman 3, 94

sharkhunter
07-30-2013, 10:50 PM
I'll bite. Are the three NCO's supervised by different people? Do they work in the same area? If they are supervised by different people and work in a the same area why is #3 rated higher than #1?

All three airmen are supervised by the same higher ranking person and work in the same job/same work area/same shift

grimreaper
07-30-2013, 10:54 PM
All three airmen are NCOs of equal rank...who is worse off and how would you rate the following airmen?

Airman 1
- takes many college classes
works hard at primary duties and secondary duties
follows orders given by others but doesn't exactly lead at maintenance
ensures work center meets TO standard in AF database system but the consequence to that is that the Airman is seen at the computer a lot
has only taken 2 PME course (not official) in one year.
Volunteered minimally at base level activities off duty.
Is involved with base organizations and organizes both squadron and base level morale events/activities.
Sometimes has to take time off to help family but has no paperwork in one year
met all standards met in initial feedback...EPR close rating...4

Airman 2
- volunteers 35 of the 52 weekends out of the year for both the base and local community
sits behind a desk to do primary duties which are mostly admin and is not question openly about computer work
does not get involve in maintenance unless there is an emergency or critical outage but tells people what maintenance to do
has squadron level additional duties (including training manager)
is involved in AF level professional organization
squadron Safety/SABC/CPR representative.
No paperwork at all...EPR closeout rating...5

Airman 3
-does not volunteer unless told to do so (mostly during the duty day)
took 3 college classes in one year
does minimal work during duty day, performs maintenance and goes home
work accomplish is average at best
co-workers do not have confidence in Airman
is not involved in squadron or base activities/organizations unless told or force to get involved
has some issues that required paperwork
assisted in completing a project...EPR closeout rating...5

If all 3 were my troops, given what info you've provided, #1 & #2 would most likely get 5's unless there is more to their stories I'm not getting and #3 would be a 4 at best (although a can totally see some crappy sup giving that crappy troop a 5).

imported_AFKILO7
07-30-2013, 11:01 PM
All three airmen are supervised by the same higher ranking person and work in the same job/same work area/same shift

Hmm....The ratings smell like poo to me. But then again there could be information that you don't have and were unable to pass along. Are you one of the NCO's? If not, and if you don't mind me asking where are you going with this inquiry?

sharkhunter
07-30-2013, 11:19 PM
Hmm....The ratings smell like poo to me. But then again there could be information that you don't have and were unable to pass along. Are you one of the NCO's? If not, and if you don't mind me asking where are you going with this inquiry?

I am one of the NCOs, but I wont say which one.
There is also Airman #4 who mirrors #1 but the two things that make that Airman different is #4 took less college courses and he volunteered two more events. Additionally, he won Performer of the month by default (he was the only name submitted to the squadron when asked for a name). So naturally, he gets a 5.
All the information posted is the best information avaliable for the situation. When you work in a small shop of 8, you pretty much know what goes on with everyone and why they're getting in trouble or being rewarded.

grimreaper
07-30-2013, 11:24 PM
I am one of the NCOs, but I wont say which one.
There is also Airman #4 who mirrors #1 but the two things that make that Airman different is #4 took less college courses and he volunteered two more events. Additionally, he won Performer of the month by default (he was the only name submitted to the squadron when asked for a name). So naturally, he gets a 5.
All the information posted is the best information avaliable for the situation. When you work in a small shop of 8, you pretty much know what goes on with everyone and why they're getting in trouble or being rewarded.

Well with all you've said so far, I would bet good money that you are Airman #1. You feel that you got screwed over, yet there are others you work with who are slackers, but were still given a five (particularly Airman #3).

Not sure why else you would be posting this if you weren't the one who got screwed.

Chief_KO
07-31-2013, 02:18 AM
How does 1, 2, or 3 know what each other received on their EPR???

retiredAFcivvy
07-31-2013, 02:34 AM
How does 1, 2, or 3 know what each other received on their EPR???

I've been awaiting for some Ol' timers like you and "crusty" to chime in.

fufu
07-31-2013, 02:02 PM
How does 1, 2, or 3 know what each other received on their EPR???

EPR ratings are pretty much public info these days. The Airman don't seem to be bothered by announcing that they got a '4' or '3'.

SomeRandomGuy
07-31-2013, 03:27 PM
How does 1, 2, or 3 know what each other received on their EPR???

Back in the day they used to route EPRs threough Case Management System (CMS). As a finance tech I had access and could read any EPR I wanted. Sometimes I would get an incredibly dumb customer. I would be like, "I just spent 20 minutes explaining how BAH works to that guy, no way he is a 5" I would open his EPR and BAM! 5!. Then sometimes I would get a customer who is very squared away. I am like firewall 5 there for sure. Nope? 4? WTF? ........The EPR system is a strange animal indeed. (Also EPRs are not routed through CMS anymore so my fun is over).

efmbman
07-31-2013, 08:42 PM
Where are the PT scores?

Is there some reason this has not been addressed? From what I have read here, PT scores are a vital part of the rating according to current USAF doctrine. Not including the PT scores in the scenario limits the ability to accurately come to a decision.

20+Years
07-31-2013, 08:48 PM
5, 5, 4. All of them need mentoring.

imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting
07-31-2013, 08:56 PM
Well someone isn't doing #3 a favor in the long run by sending him that kind of a message.

VFFTSGT
07-31-2013, 09:04 PM
I am one of the NCOs, but I wont say which one.
There is also Airman #4 who mirrors #1 but the two things that make that Airman different is #4 took less college courses and he volunteered two more events. Additionally, he won Performer of the month by default (he was the only name submitted to the squadron when asked for a name). So naturally, he gets a 5.
All the information posted is the best information avaliable for the situation. When you work in a small shop of 8, you pretty much know what goes on with everyone and why they're getting in trouble or being rewarded.

Well, I bet the 94 PT score out weighed the paper work...don't agree with it, but it is a fact of life in today's AF.

Absinthe Anecdote
07-31-2013, 09:04 PM
EPR ratings are pretty much public info these days. The Airman don't seem to be bothered by announcing that they got a '4' or '3'.

I remember people talking openly about their ratings throughout my career.

It isn't cool for the supervisor to blab about what he rated airman duffle bag but if duffle wants to tell everyone what he got, he can.

20+Years
07-31-2013, 09:13 PM
I don't think most people are ashamed to share thier rating. After all, a 4 is above average!

When I came in they had just switched to the 1-5 rating. On a phone call one night my retired Dad asked me what was my first rating. When I said 4, he blew his frikin top. I remember him yelling, "What the hell did you do wrong"? I was like, "Dad, I got a 4! Thats good!" He was used to the 1-10 system when he retired.

We still laugh about that one together.

BOSS302
07-31-2013, 10:48 PM
All three ratings are very good EPRs.

BRUWIN
08-01-2013, 03:39 AM
Well with all you've said so far, I would bet good money that you are Airman #1. You feel that you got screwed over, yet there are others you work with who are slackers, but were still given a five (particularly Airman #3).

Not sure why else you would be posting this if you weren't the one who got screwed.

You should be an investigator of some kind. Maybe ForumAdmin needs an assistant.

BRUWIN
08-01-2013, 03:40 AM
I think they all suck quite frankly.

Quixotic
08-01-2013, 07:13 AM
Obviously, they all get 5s in this Air Force.

But with any luck, #3 would F-up big and we could bust him out.

With luck...

BOSS302
08-01-2013, 07:16 AM
I think they all suck quite frankly.

Didn't you almost-fight a SMSgt while in MOPP-4, passive-aggressively make fun of your female commander's SUV, fall in the ocean while fishing on duty in your service dress, and get asked why you were carrying a polka-dotted umbrella while in uniform?

:pokey:

BRUWIN
08-01-2013, 10:24 AM
Didn't you almost-fight a SMSgt while in MOPP-4, passive-aggressively make fun of your female commander's SUV, fall in the ocean while fishing on duty in your service dress, and get asked why you were carrying a polka-dotted umbrella while in uniform?

:pokey:

Yeah...never said I deserved 5s. They just gave them to me. It probably had a lot to do with the knuckleheads they were rating me against.

Gonzo
08-01-2013, 06:33 PM
In my opinion the ratings should be 4, 4, 3. But that will never happen, reality is 5, 5, 4. Reality is if you take classes and volunteer you are a 5 and trying to flick the 5 booger is tough when someone takes classes and volunteers...

Sergeant eNYgma
08-01-2013, 08:48 PM
EPR ratings are pretty much public info these days. The Airman don't seem to be bothered by announcing that they got a '4' or '3'.

I am, I've gotten 4's when I was a younger Airman and was embarrassed because I thought EVERYONE got 5's so why not me?

Gonzo
08-02-2013, 11:24 AM
I am, I've gotten 4's when I was a younger Airman and was embarrassed because I thought EVERYONE got 5's so why not me?

When I first came in a 4 was a good EPR according to my supervisor. Only the best of the best got a 5. He told me that if someone got a 5 there should be a STEP package going up with that EPR. Then of course I had to ask what a STEP package was... So needless to say my first 2 EPRs were 4's and I thought that I was doing pretty well. I didn't feel I was looked down upon and my leadership thought I was a pretty good technician as they gave me more and more responsibility. My next two ERPs at that assignment were 5's but I was hands down the king-ding-a-ling among the Amn. Then of course I PCS'd and soon found out that the rest of the AF did not operate the same.... my next shop, everyone was a 5.

SomeRandomGuy
08-02-2013, 02:22 PM
True Story: The reason Chuck Norris left the Air Force was because everyone else kept getting rated the same as him and they refused to make a new category just for him.