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grimreaper
07-25-2013, 12:58 AM
AFPC just released the FY14 Enlisted Temporary Early Retirement Authority (TERA) program memorandum for E-6s and E-7s.

Please ensure widest dissemination to your eligible personnel.

Basic eligibility criteria is below:

1. The FY14 TERA program will consider Regular enlisted Airmen in the grades of TSgt and MSgt, if they will have at least 15 (but less than 20) years Total Active Federal Military Service by 31 Oct 13. Eligible Airmen must be in non-critical specialties, and must retire 1 Nov 13.

2. Airmen with an approved Date of Separation (DOS) or pending separation or retirement application as of release of this memorandum will not be eligible for the TERA program. If the pending separation or retirement application is disapproved, member may become eligible.

3. TERA-eligible members must submit their applications for retirement from 29 July 2013 through 19 August 2013, for a retirement date of 1 November 2013. Applications must be submitted in time to allow the unit commanders to coordinate by 19 August 2013. No exceptions to the eligible AFSCs, grades, waivers, or retirement dates are allowed. Additionally, late applications cannot be processed due to the established retirement date. Interested members should review the TERA matrix to see if their AFSC and grade are eligible for this program.

4. For further details, go to MyPers website, https://myPers.af.mil/app/answers/detail/a_id/25484, or input 25484 on the main page under Search by Keyword and click on search.

Who's jumpin'?

technomage1
07-25-2013, 01:09 AM
What kind of retirement can you get? Is it the same as before, a reduction in the percentage?

Don't know why I'm asking as my field is always critical....

grimreaper
07-25-2013, 01:41 AM
What kind of retirement can you get? Is it the same as before, a reduction in the percentage?

Don't know why I'm asking as my field is always critical....

From the FAQ's...


Q3. What benefits will I get if I decide to retire early?

A: Members retiring under the early retirement provisions will receive all benefits of a military member retired under the normal 20 year retirement provisions; however, their retired pay will be reduced by 1% for every full year served less than 20 YOS and less than a full year being reduced at the rate of 1/12th of 1% per month. Your local MPS can outline your entitlements for you.

SENDBILLMONEY
07-25-2013, 02:06 AM
Remember, you lose out on concurrent receipt of VA disability if you'd ordinarily qualify for that.

Edited to add: Actually, it appears I'm wrong on this. I was thinking of 10 U.S.C. 1414, which prohibits concurrent receipt for disability retirees with less than 20 years service. The prohibition doesn't appear to extend to TERA retirees. That's what I get for not checking before posting. My apologies.

Sprad
07-25-2013, 02:13 AM
If I were at 15-17 and single I would have jumped at this. I am at 19 in a few months with plans to go to 24. At 15 years 45% isn't bad especially since you may not have to pay the Redux back.

4. Recoupment of the Career Status Bonus (CSB) is waived IAW DoD FMR 7000.14-R, Volume 7A, Chapter 66, paragraph 660302-A3.

But then again it may be at 35% without the Redux recoupment

Mr. Happy
07-25-2013, 02:32 AM
Anyone struggling with fitness with the right amount of qualifying time should jump at this opportunity. For some, this could mean a retirement pension at age 33; unheard of in the civilian sector.

js7799
07-25-2013, 03:00 AM
Tempting but I think I'll stick it out for awhile longer.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-25-2013, 03:17 AM
Sounds like a good program for 2-3 time PT failures.

imported_Joker76
07-25-2013, 03:55 AM
I will start the process tomorrow!!!!

Can cops do this? prob not, screw it

WeaponsTSGT
07-25-2013, 05:06 AM
Remember, you lose out on concurrent receipt of VA disability if you'd ordinarily qualify for that.

Where did you get this info? Is this because concurrent reciept requires 20 years and not an approved retirement? After several back surgeries I'd love to jump on board with 18 years but it's not worth it.

VFFTSGT
07-25-2013, 05:27 AM
So you can retire, but you make any VA disability claims?

I believe you would still be able to file your claim. Like someone said, you probably won't get concurrent receipt though.

You probably take the higher of the two (retirement or disability) and then you still have the service connection for VA treatment.



I will start the process tomorrow!!!!

Can cops do this? prob not, screw it

I'm sure they can...they have 100 TSgt's on the FY14 retrain OUT list.

Tooltime
07-25-2013, 06:14 AM
Where did you get this info? Is this because concurrent reciept requires 20 years and not an approved retirement? After several back surgeries I'd love to jump on board with 18 years but it's not worth it.

According to DFAS website - TERA Retirees appear to be eligible if rated at 50% or greater. Here is the excerpt:

You must be eligible for retired pay to qualify for CRDP. If you were placed on a disability retirement, but would be eligible for military retired pay in the absence of the disability, you may be entitled to receive CRDP.

Under these rules, you may be entitled to CRDP if…

you are a regular retiree with a VA disability rating of 50 percent or greater.

you are a reserve retiree with 20 qualifying years of service, who has a VA disability rating of 50 percent or greater and who has reached retirement age. (In most cases the retirement age for reservists is 60, but certain reserve retirees may be eligible before they turn 60. If you are a member of the Ready Reserve, your retirement age can be reduced below age 60 by three months for each 90 days of active service you have performed during a fiscal year.)

you are retired under Temporary Early Retirement Act (TERA) and have a VA disability rating of 50 percent or greater.

you are a disability retiree who earned entitlement to retired pay under any provision of law other than solely by disability, and you have a VA disability rating of 50 percent or greater. You might become eligible for CRDP at the time you would have become eligible for retired pay.

http://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/disability/crdp.htm

SENDBILLMONEY
07-25-2013, 12:41 PM
Where did you get this info? Is this because concurrent reciept requires 20 years and not an approved retirement? After several back surgeries I'd love to jump on board with 18 years but it's not worth it.

I edited the prior post to highlight my error. Thanks.

Bunch
07-25-2013, 05:19 PM
If I was eligible I would jump at this.

WeaponsTSGT
07-25-2013, 05:39 PM
Sorry for being lazy, does anyone know about transfer of GI Bill benefits? I have a service commitment until May 14 for this, will I lose it if I go early?

grimreaper
07-25-2013, 05:43 PM
Sorry for being lazy, does anyone know about transfer of GI Bill benefits? I have a service commitment until May 14 for this, will I lose it if I go early?

According to what I've read, yes, you will lose the GI Bill transfer. You'll still keep it for yourself and they will waive the ADSC for the transfer, but you lose the transferability.

SomeRandomGuy
07-25-2013, 05:45 PM
Sorry for being lazy, does anyone know about transfer of GI Bill benefits? I have a service commitment until May 14 for this, will I lose it if I go early?

I knew some people who were on DOS rollback that still recieved GI Bill transfer benefits even though they had not finished their service commitment for it. In that case though they were forced out as opposed to voluntary seperation. I am not even sure who you could ask to get a 100% positive answer to your question. That whole GI bill transferability thing is a monster. The Air Force and Army have different requirements and then after you are finished with them you get to deal with the VA.

Measure Man
07-25-2013, 05:48 PM
This seems like a remarkably good deal for people who are ready to go.

Losing only 1% per year short of 20...you're not giving up much.

VFFTSGT
07-25-2013, 06:00 PM
This seems like a remarkably good deal for people who are ready to go.

Losing only 1% per year short of 20...you're not giving up much.

Did the calculation last year and it was around $1,000/mo for a 15 year E-6.

WeaponsTSGT
07-25-2013, 06:01 PM
This seems like a remarkably good deal for people who are ready to go.

Losing only 1% per year short of 20...you're not giving up much.

It's a bit more complicated based on high 3 year pay average, I'm waiting on my wife to get out of bed so we can discuss it. I actually will lose around $300 a month since I sewed MSgt on in January.

VFFTSGT
07-25-2013, 06:07 PM
Sorry for being lazy, does anyone know about transfer of GI Bill benefits? I have a service commitment until May 14 for this, will I lose it if I go early?

Don't remember for early retirement, but for early sep you lost it (or would have to pay back if already used) - there was no waiver unless you went reserves/guard.

Just set your sep/ret date right after your ADSC; that is what I did for early sep.

I think the article said you had to retire by SEP 14...so setting a date after your May ADSC would be fine.

I was right, here it is:

Airmen who leave the Air Force under this voluntary retirement program without completing their Post-9/11 GI Bill Active Duty Service Commitment forfeit the transferred benefit, and any benefits that dependents used may be treated as an overpayment subject to recoupment by the Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA). For questions regarding the Post-9/11 GI Bill Transferability, contact the DVA at 1-888-GIBILL1 (1-888-442-4551).

https://gum-crm.csd.disa.mil/ci/fattach/get/2728859/1374698262/redirect/1/filename/PSDM%2013-73%2C%20FY14%20Enlisted%20Temporary%20Early%20Reti rement%20Authority%20%28TERA%29%20program.pdf

SomeRandomGuy
07-25-2013, 06:14 PM
It's a bit more complicated based on high 3 year pay average, I'm waiting on my wife to get out of bed so we can discuss it. I actually will lose around $300 a month since I sewed MSgt on in January.

In case you need it here is the High-36 calculator from OSD. Good luck with your decision. http://militarypay.defense.gov/tools/high3cal.html


EDIT: That calculator may not be all that helpful because the minimum number for years for input is 20. According to the same site TERA retirment is calculated by finding your original multiplier and then reducing it by a percentage based on how many months you are short.


Temporary Early Retirement Authority (TERA) authorized members with over 15, but less than 20 years of total active duty service to apply for early retirement. The opportunity to retire under this TERA program is expected to end by December 31, 2018.

TERA retired pay is initially computed using the length of service retirement formula. It is then multiplied by a reduction factor based on the number of months the retiree is short of 20 years.

Active duty pay x Percent Multiple x Reduction Factor = TERA Retired Pay

Like all retired pay, TERA gross retired pay is rounded down to the nearest dollar.

Please note: The Public and Community Service Program allowed under the 1993-2001 TERA is not applicable to the 2012-2018 TERA.

Measure Man
07-25-2013, 06:16 PM
Did the calculation last year and it was around $1,000/mo for a 15 year E-6.

Forgetting the High-3 part to simplify.

A 15 yr E-6 makes $3555 per month....45% of that = $1599

A 20 yr E-7 makes $4328 per month....50% of that = $2164

Diff of $565...the difference would be less obviously if you didn't make E-7, or made it with less than 3 years TIG at retirement.

So...$565 X 12 = $6780 per year.

Now, you spend those 5 years pulling in the retirement, which is $19,188 per year for 5 years = $95,940

Let's just assume for simplicity that your civilian job makes about the same as your active duty pay....we'll call that a wash.

So, 5 years from now, you've made an extra $95,940 that you wouldn't have made by staying in....and you are going to lose $565 in retirement each month, or $6780 per year.

$95, 940/6780 = 14.15 years...this is the break even point. IOW, it will take you 14 years of that extra retirement to make up for the benefit of drawing it for the next 5 years. Of course, you expect to live more than 14 years, so in the long run...you might want to stay in as long as you can.

Consider also...that you have 5 years more seniority (pay raises) in a civilian job...maybe 5 more years equity in a permanent home, etc.

Again...individual circumstances vary as to what is better for you...but, for someone who is ready to go, the deal they are making is a pretty good one.

Measure Man
07-25-2013, 06:18 PM
It's a bit more complicated based on high 3 year pay average, I'm waiting on my wife to get out of bed so we can discuss it. I actually will lose around $300 a month since I sewed MSgt on in January.

Don't forget to consider your civilian advancement as well...assuming you would work if you get to retire.

Measure Man
07-25-2013, 06:22 PM
One way to think about it...every year you serve OVER 20, you are earning an extra 2.5% per year. This early retirement plan, you are only sacrificing 1% per year.

VFFTSGT
07-25-2013, 06:39 PM
Forgetting the High-3 part to simplify.

A 15 yr E-6 makes $3555 per month....45% of that = $1599

A 20 yr E-7 makes $4328 per month....50% of that = $2164

Diff of $565...the difference would be less obviously if you didn't make E-7, or made it with less than 3 years TIG at retirement.

So...$565 X 12 = $6780 per year.

Now, you spend those 5 years pulling in the retirement, which is $19,188 per year for 5 years = $95,940

Let's just assume for simplicity that your civilian job makes about the same as your active duty pay....we'll call that a wash.

So, 5 years from now, you've made an extra $95,940 that you wouldn't have made by staying in....and you are going to lose $565 in retirement each month, or $6780 per year.

$95, 940/6780 = 14.15 years...this is the break even point. IOW, it will take you 14 years of that extra retirement to make up for the benefit of the next 5 years. Of course, you expect to live more than 14 years, so in the long run...you might want to stay in as long as you can.

Consider also...that you have 5 years more seniority (pay raises) in a civilian job...maybe 5 more years equity in a permanent home, etc.

Again...individual circumstances vary as to what is better for you...but, for someone who is ready to go, the deal they are making is a pretty good one.

I think they changed the penalty for retiring early...this time it appears to only be 1% per year...when they did this last time (FY12 I believe) I think there was an additional penalty besides the 1% per year.

Not sure, but I think you are making the same mistake I made when calculating this last time. I originally came up with a higher number like you but then spoke with someone and realized there was an error in the calculation.

The number was closer to $1,000 then...

Measure Man
07-25-2013, 06:43 PM
I think they changed the penalty for retiring early...this time it appears to only be 1% per year...when they did this last time (FY12 I believe) there was an additional penalty besides the 1% per year. The number was closer to $1,000 then.

Yes, I can believe that...don't think we've seen as good a deal as this for 15 years guys...

SomeRandomGuy
07-25-2013, 06:44 PM
Forgetting the High-3 part to simplify.

A 15 yr E-6 makes $3555 per month....45% of that = $1599

A 20 yr E-7 makes $4328 per month....50% of that = $2164

Diff of $565...the difference would be less obviously if you didn't make E-7, or made it with less than 3 years TIG at retirement.

So...$565 X 12 = $6780 per year.

Now, you spend those 5 years pulling in the retirement, which is $19,188 per year for 5 years = $95,940

Let's just assume for simplicity that your civilian job makes about the same as your active duty pay....we'll call that a wash.

So, 5 years from now, you've made an extra $95,940 that you wouldn't have made by staying in....and you are going to lose $565 in retirement each month, or $6780 per year.

$95, 940/6780 = 14.15 years...this is the break even point. IOW, it will take you 14 years of that extra retirement to make up for the benefit of drawing it for the next 5 years. Of course, you expect to live more than 14 years, so in the long run...you might want to stay in as long as you can.

Consider also...that you have 5 years more seniority (pay raises) in a civilian job...maybe 5 more years equity in a permanent home, etc.

Again...individual circumstances vary as to what is better for you...but, for someone who is ready to go, the deal they are making is a pretty good one.

Excellent post...............As someone mentioned above if I were struggling with PT I sure wouldn't be gambling with this. Better to take what you can get now than risk staying and losing it all or even losing a stripe. HYT for SSgt is not 20 years anymore. If a TSgt loses a stripe they effectively lose their entire retirement so they might as well take what they can get now and leave.

VFFTSGT
07-25-2013, 06:57 PM
Yes, I can believe that...don't think we've seen as good a deal as this for 15 years guys...

Just looked it up...there is that additional penalty still...the multiplier for 15 years is 37.5 then you take 1% per year off that amount.

I knew there was something about 2.5% in addition to the 1%....

http://militarypay.defense.gov/retirement/

At least that is how it was explained to me last time.

grimreaper
07-25-2013, 07:32 PM
Just looked it up...there is that additional penalty still...the multiplier for 15 years is 37.5 then you take 1% per year off that amount.

I knew there was something about 2.5% in addition to the 1%....

http://militarypay.defense.gov/retirement/

At least that is how it was explained to me last time.

You're saying that's how it works for this program?

That's not what they are advertising.


Q3. What benefits will I get if I decide to retire early?

A: Members retiring under the early retirement provisions will receive all benefits of a military member retired under the normal 20 year retirement provisions; however, their retired pay will be reduced by 1% for every full year served less than 20 YOS and less than a full year being reduced at the rate of 1/12th of 1% per month. Your local MPS can outline your entitlements for you.

VFFTSGT
07-25-2013, 07:44 PM
You're saying that's how it works for this program?

That's not what they are advertising.

I may not be right, the reasons for the words I think, I believe, etc...this is what someone explained to me last time (I think they called AFPC about it too because they were seriously considering it)

What I can say for sure is if you are considering, email AFPC and get it in writing what is the formula for calculation and what multiplier do you use because I don't think the advertisement is all that clear. And in the FAQ's is references you to online calculators that only allow a minimum of 20 years of service for input.

It wouldn't have been that difficult to include the multipliers and formula in the advertisement document... One would think that would be the first question anyone would have... Instead, they reference calculators that don't seem to compute for 15 years.

WeaponsTSGT
07-25-2013, 07:46 PM
Don't remember for early retirement, but for early sep you lost it (or would have to pay back if already used) - there was no waiver unless you went reserves/guard.

Just set your sep/ret date right after your ADSC; that is what I did for early sep.

I think the article said you had to retire by SEP 14...so setting a date after your May ADSC would be fine.

I was right, here it is:


https://gum-crm.csd.disa.mil/ci/fattach/get/2728859/1374698262/redirect/1/filename/PSDM%2013-73%2C%20FY14%20Enlisted%20Temporary%20Early%20Reti rement%20Authority%20%28TERA%29%20program.pdf

Unless I read it wrong, retirement is as of 1 Nov 2013, and because of my medical problems I had already decided to retire right at 20.

VFFTSGT
07-25-2013, 07:49 PM
Unless I read it wrong, retirement is as of 1 Nov 2013, and because of my medical problems I had already decided to retire right at 20.

EDIT: Oops you are right...that's odd. I got out under FY13 programs and had to be out by the end of FY13. But it looks like you have to be out early FY14. I didn't catch that; I just presumed it was based on similar dates as previous years programs.

They sure aren't giving people much time to consider/think about it...

Shaken1976
07-25-2013, 07:49 PM
I sent in several questions to myPers. They sent back links that had nothing to do with my questions. Grrr.

Measure Man
07-25-2013, 07:55 PM
EDIT: Oops you are right...that's odd. I got out under FY13 programs and had to be out by the end of FY13. But it looks like you have to be out early FY14.

Nov 2013 is actually in FY14.

FY14 begins 1 Oct 2013.

For this program, according to the article, everyone who applies and is approved will have a retirement date of 1 Nov 2013.

VFFTSGT
07-25-2013, 07:56 PM
I sent in several questions to myPers. They sent back links that had nothing to do with my questions. Grrr.

That sounds about right. They talked down to me last year when I called in asking about clarification of aspects of the FY13 program. It was like they had the mindset of how dare you call us.

grimreaper
07-25-2013, 07:57 PM
I may not be right, the reasons for the words I think, I believe, etc...this is what someone explained to me last time (I think they called AFPC about it too because they were seriously considering it)

What I can say for sure is if you are considering, email AFPC and get it in writing what is the formula for calculation and what multiplier do you use because I don't think the advertisement is all that clear. And in the FAQ's is references you to online calculators that only allow a minimum of 20 years of service for input.


Oh, most definitely. Anyone jumping on this better make sure they know what percentage they are getting. If it is indeed like it is advertised, it's a great deal. The loss of GI Bill transfer would be a deal-breaker for me though.

grimreaper
07-25-2013, 08:00 PM
For this program, according to the article, everyone who applies and is approved will have a retirement date of 1 Nov 2013.

That's correct. It does say that they may offer different dates to some people.

I'm really surprised this is just being released now. It leaves very little time to prepare. Some people would be starting terminal leave in like a month from now.

fufu
07-25-2013, 08:10 PM
Just crossed 14 yrs TIS in May. FML. I'd be all over this, provided I get my Tricare and VA disability.

Shaken1976
07-25-2013, 08:13 PM
That's correct. It does say that they may offer different dates to some people.

I'm really surprised this is just being released now. It leaves very little time to prepare. Some people would be starting terminal leave in like a month from now.

I thought there was supposed to be at least 120 days for retirements? This suspense is going to be like half of that.

Measure Man
07-25-2013, 08:19 PM
I thought there was supposed to be at least 120 days for retirements? This suspense is going to be like half of that.

That's the normal...easy to waiver though.

I retired with <60 days notice...basically if your app is approved, the waiver is assumed.

Shaken1976
07-25-2013, 08:23 PM
That's the normal...easy to waiver though.

I retired with <60 days notice...basically if your app is approved, the waiver is assumed.

I would consider it. But it leaves me very little time to prepare. Lots of things to consider.

I currently live on base and by daughter attends the base school and LOVES it.

Job? Haven't even started a job hunt.

VA dis... How long is that taking?

How long before retirement pay kicks in? Would I be able to keep using TSP or would I have to withdraw?

I currently have about 45 days of leave. So add in PTDY..I would be done as soon as I got my approval.

VFFTSGT
07-25-2013, 08:33 PM
I would consider it. But it leaves me very little time to prepare. Lots of things to consider.

I currently live on base and by daughter attends the base school and LOVES it.

Job? Haven't even started a job hunt.

VA dis... How long is that taking?

How long before retirement pay kicks in? Would I be able to keep using TSP or would I have to withdraw?

I currently have about 45 days of leave. So add in PTDY..I would be done as soon as I got my approval.

VA disability...taking a LONG TIME. BDD claims out of UTAH are averaging 332 days - national average is 273. The goal is 40 days.

http://www.app.hospitalcompare.va.gov/index.cfm

The intent of BDD is to have your claims paying out 60 days after separation/retirement.


BDD is offered to accelerate receipt of VA disability benefits, with a goal of providing benefits within 60 days after release or discharge from active duty. BDD allows a servicemember with at least 60 days, but not more than 180 days, remaining on active duty to file a VA disability claim prior to separation. BDD requires a minimum of 60 days to allow sufficient time to complete the medical examination process (which may involve multiple specialty clinics) prior to separation from service.http://www.benefits.va.gov/BENEFITS/factsheets/general/BDDFactSheet.pdf

Rumor mill is fully developed claims right after separation may be the way to go these days but that also varies based on location.

Measure Man
07-25-2013, 08:40 PM
I would consider it. But it leaves me very little time to prepare. Lots of things to consider.

Yes, one would need to be ready to go.


I currently live on base and by daughter attends the base school and LOVES it.

One of the considerations for me retiring when I did is that I was 1 year into a 3 year tour...with my step-daughter just beginning high school. Meaning if I stayed in, she would have had to transfer halfway through HS.


Job? Haven't even started a job hunt.

Realistically...it's kind of hard to do that until you have a retirement date within 60 days anyway...not many people are going to wait for you longer than that on a firm job offer.

I was lucky...I got a job offer that was willing to wait 2 months for me...so I dropped my papers asking for a 2-month retirement. If it had been disapproved, I could have just declined the job offer and stayed in longer...


VA dis... How long is that taking?

Mine took 14 months. Not a big deal for me either way as I'm less than 50%, so whatever I get in disability comes out of my retirement pay. Slight tax advantage is all.

You get it all in back pay to your retirement day, too


How long before retirement pay kicks in? Would I be able to keep using TSP or would I have to withdraw?

I wanna say it was about the second month after....also there is about a 2-3 week delay in getting your final pay from active duty, too....so you might actually miss a pay day or two, but then it catches up...if you got a little cash in the bank, it's not a huge deal.


I currently have about 45 days of leave. So add in PTDY..I would be done as soon as I got my approval.

You have the option to sell that leave, too...which might make sense in your case. Stay working until 31 Oct, minus PTDY, and sell the 45 days...that would give you the most money and be able to plan for a job and stuff. Of course, that'd mean the daughter transfers during the school year, but if she's young it's not that tragic.

technomage1
07-26-2013, 09:01 PM
Talked to my CFM about this today. While I'm technically eligible since my career field - gasp - is now off the critical list, and my year is eligible, he feels my chances aren't that great since the overall manning at my level is so low but also feels it doesn't hurt to try. All they can say is no, right?

I've got some serious thinking to do this weekend.

VFFTSGT
07-26-2013, 09:42 PM
Talked to my CFM about this today. While I'm technically eligible since my career field - gasp - is now off the critical list, and my year is eligible, he feels my chances aren't that great since the overall manning at my level is so low but also feels it doesn't hurt to try. All they can say is no, right?

I've got some serious thinking to do this weekend.

Well, I do believe the only disapproval authority is AFPC...I don't think anyone else in the chain can say no. But like you said, don't know until you try and all they can say is no. I would NEVER base my life on someone else's "feelings." They can feel all they want; AFPC is the yea, nay folks.

VFFTSGT
07-26-2013, 09:47 PM
AFSC matrix has been posted. Security Forces IS ELGIBLE Joker76.

https://gum-crm.csd.disa.mil/ci/fattach/get/2731851/1374786195/redirect/1/filename/Eligibility%20for%202013%20TERA%20-%20ENLISTED.PDF

technomage1
07-26-2013, 10:16 PM
AFSC matrix has been posted. Security Forces IS ELGIBLE Joker76.

https://gum-crm.csd.disa.mil/ci/fattach/get/2731851/1374786195/redirect/1/filename/Eligibility%20for%202013%20TERA%20-%20ENLISTED.PDF

That is last years...it's the 2014 list....it got me at first too.

technomage1
07-26-2013, 10:18 PM
Well, I do believe the only disapproval authority is AFPC...I don't think anyone else in the chain can say no. But like you said, don't know until you try and all they can say is no. I would NEVER base my life on someone else's "feelings." They can feel all they want; AFPC is the yea, nay folks.

Well he is the CFM so he has more perspective than I do and access to much more information. I trust his judgement from what I've seen from him in the past. He's usually spot on.

VFFTSGT
07-26-2013, 10:34 PM
That is last years...it's the 2014 list....it got me at first too.

This is the right list. There was no FY13 TERA. The last matrix from FY12 looked different and had different year groups for my AFSC.

It just appears they put calendar year on it versus FY.

VFFTSGT
07-26-2013, 10:41 PM
Well he is the CFM so he has more perspective than I do and access to much more information. I trust his judgement from what I've seen from him in the past. He's usually spot on.

I get all that, I just said that because too many times other people's arbitrary feelings interfere with people's decision making process.

technomage1
07-26-2013, 10:42 PM
This is the right list. There was no FY13 TERA. The last matrix from FY12 looked different and had different year groups for my AFSC.

It just appears they put calendar year on it versus FY.

Now I'm really confused. The 2014 matrix (the excel one) on myPERS had my career field eligible. This does not. That's why I thought it was last years. I wonder which is right?

VFFTSGT
07-26-2013, 10:44 PM
Now I'm really confused. The 2014 matrix on myPERS had my career field eligible. This does not. That's why I thought it was last years. I wonder which is right?

Interesting... I dunno, but the last TERA was FY12, it was right at the end and had short time spans too. They announced there was no FY13 TERA, so I don't see how this list was for FY13. I don't even see the 2014 lists you are talking about.

Why would they post 2013 lists under 2014 in the first place?!

Oh wait, I bet you are looking at the matrix for early separations. There are two different spreadsheets. One for seps and one for retirements.

technomage1
07-26-2013, 10:45 PM
https://myPers.af.mil/app/answers/detail/a_id/25484

If you go to this link it's on the upper right corner.

My shirt sent out a list an my AFSC was on it....really confused.

VFFTSGT
07-26-2013, 10:49 PM
https://myPers.af.mil/app/answers/detail/a_id/25484

If you go to this link it's on the upper right corner.

My shirt sent out a list an my AFSC was on it....really confused.

I think that matrix is just for early separations because there is the TERA matrix under that section and these TERA lists where not there yesterday...

Call AFPC...

technomage1
07-26-2013, 10:50 PM
Interesting... I dunno, but the last TERA was FY12, it was right at the end and had short time spans too. They announced there was no FY13 TERA, so I don't see how this list was for FY13. I don't even see the 2014 lists you are talking about.

Why would they post 2013 lists under 2014 in the first place?!

Oh wait, I bet you are looking at the matrix for early separations. There are two different spreadsheets. One for seps and one for retirements.

Maybe you're right. I'm at home so I'll check again on Monday. Still wouldn't explain why my shirt let me know I was eligible, but maybe he was confused too. Yesterday that one you posted didn't even exist. Or maybe AFPC realized my career field never gets anything nice...lol

VFFTSGT
07-26-2013, 10:54 PM
Maybe you're right. I'm at home so I'll check again on Monday. Still wouldn't explain why my shirt let me know I was eligible, but maybe he was confused too. Yesterday that one you posted didn't even exist. Or maybe AFPC realized my career field never gets anything nice...lol

Their number is 1 (800) 525-0102 and they are 24/7.

Your shirt probably didn't realize the difference either.

technomage1
07-26-2013, 11:07 PM
Their number is 1 (800) 525-0102 and they are 24/7.

Your shirt probably didn't realize the difference either.

I called them. They don't know either and couldn't figure it out. Told me to check the website again on Monday, but the sheet she pulled up was labeled 2014. She told me to check the FAQ section. :confusion:

I'd look myself now but I'm at home. And of course don't remember my username or 8K character password.

VFFTSGT
07-26-2013, 11:11 PM
I called them. They don't know either and couldn't figure it out. Told me to check the website again on Monday, but the sheet she pulled up was labeled 2014. She told me to check the FAQ section. :confusion:

I'd look myself now but I'm at home. And of course don't remember my username or 8K character password.

Well, just submit your package anyways...lol If they don't even know the rules, you are probably good to go...lol

technomage1
07-26-2013, 11:13 PM
Well, just submit your package anyways...lol If they don't even know the rules, you are probably good to go...lol

Well if they don't know that much then I'd be worried I'd be reenlisting for life and volunteering for a permanent assignment to Thule. :banana:

WeaponsTSGT
07-27-2013, 12:33 AM
Well if they don't know that much then I'd be worried I'd be reenlisting for life and volunteering for a permanent assignment to Thule. :banana:

God damnit that confusing shit got me also, I applied and low and behold mine is not on there either. That second list didn't appear on there until today. That's pretty shitty, considering I read that everyone that was eligible last time that applied was accepted.

So I will be able to tell you within 10 days when they tell me if I'm eligible or not which list is good.

technomage1
07-27-2013, 12:50 AM
God damnit that confusing shit got me also, I applied and low and behold mine is not on there either. That second list didn't appear on there until today. That's pretty shitty, considering I read that everyone that was eligible last time that applied was accepted.

So I will be able to tell you within 10 days when they tell me if I'm eligible or not which list is good.

How did you apply now? The website said you could apply starting Monday, July 29 - Aug 15. Good grief, this whole thing is messed up....

WeaponsTSGT
07-27-2013, 01:04 AM
How did you apply now? The website said you could apply starting Monday, July 29 - Aug 15. Good grief, this whole thing is messed up....

I applied the way the directions said, went to Vmpf hit apply for retirement which takes you to MYpers, and then you submit a form to check eligibility. So I submited the form to check my eligibility for retirement, the email says you will hear back within 10 days and at that time you apply.

technomage1
07-27-2013, 01:11 AM
I applied the way the directions said, went to Vmpf hit apply for retirement which takes you to MYpers, and then you submit a form to check eligibility. So I submited the form to check my eligibility for retirement, the email says you will hear back within 10 days and at that time you apply.

I think that might be the regular retirement process. Granted, I only skimmed the instructions since I read you couldn't apply until Monday, but I think there is more than that. You may want to double check, is all I'm saying....don't want this opportunity to pass you by.

WeaponsTSGT
07-27-2013, 01:17 AM
I think that might be the regular retirement process. Granted, I only skimmed the instructions since I read you couldn't apply until Monday, but I think there is more than that. You may want to double check, is all I'm saying....don't want this opportunity to pass you by.

Also for whatever it's worth I just got off the phone with mypers 1 (800) 525-0102, and was told that the FY14 matrix list was the list to look at. However they didn't sound certain. I'll call them back Monday and make sure that my application wasn't too early, thanks. If someone else wants to call and post what they are told maybe we can see a trend as to what answer is given at the help center.

technomage1
07-27-2013, 01:31 AM
Also for whatever it's worth I just got off the phone with mypers 1 (800) 525-0102, and was told that the FY14 matrix list was the list to look at. However they didn't sound certain. I'll call them back Monday and make sure that my application wasn't too early, thanks. If someone else wants to call and post what they are told maybe we can see a trend as to what answer is given at the help center.

How like AFPC to give us instructions then conflicting information and a 2 week deadline....

VFFTSGT
07-27-2013, 04:20 AM
I applied the way the directions said, went to Vmpf hit apply for retirement which takes you to MYpers, and then you submit a form to check eligibility. So I submited the form to check my eligibility for retirement, the email says you will hear back within 10 days and at that time you apply.

You might have put a hiccup into your plans because it said you cannot apply until Monday.


From 29 Jul 13 through 19 Aug 13, eligible Airmen may apply for retirement under the TERA program that is effective 1 Nov 13.

CrustySMSgt
07-27-2013, 05:24 AM
Well he is the CFM so he has more perspective than I do and access to much more information. I trust his judgement from what I've seen from him in the past. He's usually spot on.

As VFF said, never let someone discourage you from applying for something, even if they must coord on the package. Easier to tell someone no than to put it on paper and have to actually justify their rationale... and if AFPC is the ultimate approval authority, they may not care. Most functionals may give you shit for doing it anyway, but not actually hold it against you... but I'm sure there are some out there who will, so you've got to consider that.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-27-2013, 12:09 PM
I applied the way the directions said, went to Vmpf hit apply for retirement which takes you to MYpers, and then you submit a form to check eligibility. So I submited the form to check my eligibility for retirement, the email says you will hear back within 10 days and at that time you apply.

The first step is the retirement eligibility check. Once you get a response (may not actually take 10 days), then AFPC opens up the link for you to submit your retirement application to AFPC via your CC. Keep in mind that the retirement eligibility check does not commit you to the retirement process. One they give you the thumbs up and open up the application link they give you a time limit to apply before the application link disappears and you have to start the whole process over. Pretty simple process!

euripedes
07-27-2013, 04:09 PM
Many people got a response in one or two days because while they meet the matrix and years requirements, the next level totally disqualifies them.

ADSC is one that killed a lot of people. They're only going to waive 2 years. If you owe more than that, you're not going anywhere. I'd definitely need to know if that extra penalty is only the 1%. DFAS has that calculation going from 2012-2018 on their website. It would suck to apply and think you're getting 45% only to realize its more like 36%.

WeaponsTSGT
07-27-2013, 06:49 PM
The first step is the retirement eligibility check. Once you get a response (may not actually take 10 days), then AFPC opens up the link for you to submit your retirement application to AFPC via your CC. Keep in mind that the retirement eligibility check does not commit you to the retirement process. One they give you the thumbs up and open up the application link they give you a time limit to apply before the application link disappears and you have to start the whole process over. Pretty simple process!

And that's all I did, was an eligibility check...so far. Which should clear up everything regarding which list is correct.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-27-2013, 09:50 PM
And that's all I did, was an eligibility check...so far. Which should clear up everything regarding which list is correct.

Good luck. Once you actually submit the application it's like the weight of the world just lifted off of your shoulders. A few weeks later the reality that you need to find a job (in most cases) sinks in. The freedom is nice though!

Class5Kayaker
07-30-2013, 01:48 PM
Here's what the AF Times is reporting for actual retirement pay if you take TERA:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130729/CAREERS/307290023/Apply-starting-today-15-year-retirements

hmmm......not letting me hotlink. Anyway, here's the text version:

EARLY RETIREMENT AND YOUR PAY
Airmen approved for 15-year retirement would receive a reduced percentage of basic pay, calculated as an annuity in monthly increments for service of less than 20 years. The breakdown, in six-month increments:


Years of Retirement
service (% of base pay)
19.5 48.506%
19 47.025
18.5 45.556
18 44.100
17.5 42.656
17 41.225
16.5 39.806
16 38.400
15.5 37.006
15 35.625
Under 2013 pay rates:
A lieutenant colonel with 16 years would get about $3,032 per month, versus about $3,926 per month at 20 years.
A master sergeant with 18 years would get about $1,971 per month, versus about $2,263 per month at 20 years.

DWWSWWD
07-30-2013, 02:09 PM
Here's what the AF Times is reporting for actual retirement pay if you take TERA:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130729/CAREERS/307290023/Apply-starting-today-15-year-retirements

hmmm......not letting me hotlink. Anyway, here's the text version:

EARLY RETIREMENT AND YOUR PAY
Airmen approved for 15-year retirement would receive a reduced percentage of basic pay, calculated as an annuity in monthly increments for service of less than 20 years. The breakdown, in six-month increments:


Years of Retirement
service (% of base pay)
19.5 48.506%
19 47.025
18.5 45.556
18 44.100
17.5 42.656
17 41.225
16.5 39.806
16 38.400
15.5 37.006
15 35.625
Under 2013 pay rates:
A lieutenant colonel with 16 years would get about $3,032 per month, versus about $3,926 per month at 20 years.
A master sergeant with 18 years would get about $1,971 per month, versus about $2,263 per month at 20 years.

That's quite a bit different than the 1% a year we were kicking around earlier. This is closer or the same to what it was when they did it in the early 90s.

technomage1
07-30-2013, 02:15 PM
Based on the list published in the AFT, my career field isn't eligible. :miserable:

Class5Kayaker
07-30-2013, 02:27 PM
That's quite a bit different than the 1% a year we were kicking around earlier. This is closer or the same to what it was when they did it in the early 90s.

It's really confusing. Because the text of AFT times article states, "Airmen hoping to collect the 15-year retirement benefits must act fast. Airmen accepted for early retirement will receive all of the benefits of traditional retirement pay, but they also would be docked 1 percentage point for each year short of 20 years." Then they have that chart off to the side which shows different percentages. I'm thinking the chart is accurate because only losing 1% a year is a STEAL considering you basically accrue 2.5% of base pay per year towards retirement. After seeing the chart I thought maybe it was docking an extra 1% from the 2.5% you earn in retirement every year. But that would equate to 19 years = 46.5% and the chart shows 47.025%.

Bottom line for anyone considering this is to call AFPC and to realize the chart is probably more realistic than the initially advertised "1% less per year" when making your decision.

DWWSWWD
07-30-2013, 02:43 PM
THe DFAS website presents it as you do. 2.5% x TIS - 1% reduction for each year short of 20. Not matching up with AFT but I'd bet it's far closer to reality than 48% at 18. That would really have been to good to be true.

Measure Man
07-30-2013, 03:23 PM
THe DFAS website presents it as you do. 2.5% x TIS - 1% reduction for each year short of 20. Not matching up with AFT but I'd bet it's far closer to reality than 48% at 18. That would really have been to good to be true.

Not such a good deal then.

VFFTSGT
07-30-2013, 03:31 PM
Not such a good deal then.

They make it sound like a good deal though. You know the average person probably doesn't realize this and by the time they do it's too late.

It really almost seems as if they are intentionally misleading people. But then again, they probably didn't take 2 seconds to think that everyone is not personnelist and don't know all these rules and they assume we do.

DWWSWWD
07-30-2013, 05:50 PM
They make it sound like a good deal though. You know the average person probably doesn't realize this and by the time they do it's too late.

It really almost seems as if they are intentionally misleading people. But then again, they probably didn't take 2 seconds to think that everyone is not personnelist and don't know all these rules and they assume we do.

Hopefully no one here would make it through retirement without consulting something other than AFT. DFAS website is clear about who to contact for specifics including percentages, pay amounts and such. I didn't, though I will as soon as I get a chance. I am not eligible but some of my teammates are. I owe it to them to have good answers, lest they drop their papers based on an AFT article or the advice of an internet Chief.

technomage1
07-30-2013, 05:59 PM
They make it sound like a good deal though. You know the average person probably doesn't realize this and by the time they do it's too late.

It really almost seems as if they are intentionally misleading people. But then again, they probably didn't take 2 seconds to think that everyone is not personnelist and don't know all these rules and they assume we do.

To be fair, they don't have to offer squat. They can just cut and give you zilch. And if you want out anyway, its a good deal.

grimreaper
07-30-2013, 06:10 PM
They make it sound like a good deal though. You know the average person probably doesn't realize this and by the time they do it's too late.

It really almost seems as if they are intentionally misleading people. But then again, they probably didn't take 2 seconds to think that everyone is not personnelist and don't know all these rules and they assume we do.

19 years: 19 * 2.5% * 0.99 (1% penalty) = 47.025%
18 years: 18 * 2.5% * 0.98 (2% penalty) = 44.55%
17 years: 17 * 2.5% * 0.97 (3% penalty) = 41.225%
16 years: 16 * 2.5% * 0.96 (4% penalty) = 38.4%
15 years: 15 * 2.5% * 0.95 (5% penalty) = 35.625%

Those numbers are correct.

wmx013
07-30-2013, 06:36 PM
The numbers in the AFT article are correct if you run them in a certain order. You accumulate 2.5%/year and then the 1%/year is taken off once off the end.

19 years: 19 * 2.5% * 0.99 (1% penalty) = 47.025%
15 years: 15 * 2.5% * 0.95 (5% penalty) = 35.625%

Didn't 45% at 15 seem a little too good be true anyway?

VFFTSGT
07-30-2013, 06:39 PM
Hopefully no one here would make it through retirement without consulting something other than AFT. DFAS website is clear about who to contact for specifics including percentages, pay amounts and such. I didn't, though I will as soon as I get a chance. I am not eligible but some of my teammates are. I owe it to them to have good answers, lest they drop their papers based on an AFT article or the advice of an internet Chief.

Or an email re-forwarded from your shirt that may or may not contain accurate information.


To be fair, they don't have to offer squat. They can just cut and give you zilch. And if you want out anyway, its a good deal.

I know, those of us that are leaving early don't get sh!t. But yeah, get in trouble, get a DOS rollback, and you get paid. Not that I think I need anything else but I think it is crappy trouble makers get paid.



Yup, they definintely presented it by sounding like it was as simple as 50% minus the 1% for every year under 20. I wonder how many people might have started the ball rolling on this and are not aware. At 15 years, the actual percentage is 32.5%, not the 45% initially though. At 17 years, it would be 39.5%, and at 19 it would be 46.5%.

Definitely not as appetizing as initially thought.

Several, I'm sure...

euripedes
07-30-2013, 06:40 PM
Yup, they definintely presented it by sounding like it was as simple as 50% minus the 1% for every year under 20. I wonder how many people might have started the ball rolling on this and are not aware. At 15 years, the actual percentage is 32.5%, not the 45% initially though. At 17 years, it would be 39.5%, and at 19 it would be 46.5%.

Definitely not as appetizing as initially thought.

these are the numbers i've been giving my people who are eligible but the AF Times article shows percentages that don't make sense.

VFFTSGT
07-30-2013, 06:48 PM
these are the numbers i've been giving my people who are eligible but the AF Times article shows percentages that don't make sense.
wmx013 posted the formula - it is what AFT is reporting....not what you are giving your people.

You don't subtract 1 from 37.5 for each year...it's one percent per year so you calculate percentage by multiplying. Look at the formula posted above...or rather here it is...



The numbers in the AFT article are correct if you run them in a certain order. You accumulate 2.5%/year and then the 1%/year is taken off once off the end.

19 years: 19 * 2.5% * 0.99 (1% penalty) = 47.025%
15 years: 15 * 2.5% * 0.95 (5% penalty) = 35.625%

Didn't 45% at 15 seem a little too good be true anyway?

euripedes
07-30-2013, 06:56 PM
Got it. Militaryadvantage.com put an article out in April with the same formula. Just sounded like something different this time. Thanks.

Class5Kayaker
07-30-2013, 07:30 PM
The numbers in the AFT article are correct if you run them in a certain order. You accumulate 2.5%/year and then the 1%/year is taken off once off the end.

19 years: 19 * 2.5% * 0.99 (1% penalty) = 47.025%
15 years: 15 * 2.5% * 0.95 (5% penalty) = 35.625%

Didn't 45% at 15 seem a little too good be true anyway?

I was thinking about it at lunch and figured that was how AFT calculated it. But if I were to bet on it, I think it's the other way. 3.5% reduction per year below 20.

All of this debate could have been solved had the AF just posted an official chart with the release of the message.

But I'm sure they didn't do that on purpose in order to entice more folks to jump at it [/sarcasm]

45ACP
07-30-2013, 08:38 PM
What list do you go by on MyPers? I called AFPC twice and they didn't seem to know. There is the FY14 Force Managment Matrix and a 2013 TERA Eligibility Chart? The program falls under FY14...am I the only one confused.

VFFTSGT
07-30-2013, 08:51 PM
What list do you go by on MyPers? I called AFPC twice and they didn't seem to know. There is the FY14 Force Managment Matrix and a 2013 TERA Eligibility Chart? The program falls under FY14...am I the only one confused.

No you are not, we had this conversation on here on Friday.

No one really knows though...the FY13 Force Management one is posted under the early separation one though and the 2013 (I think they are refering to calendar year 13) is posted under TERA. But TERA is also considered a Force Management tool...

There was no FY13 TERA so the list could not be the FY13 TERA list UNLESS it was a proposed list they created for FY13 before deciding no TERA for FY13 and then accidently posting it.

But everything else also says FY if refering to the fiscal year. This is why I think they are refering to the TERA chart by calendar year 2013 and since the program is spanning across two FY's - having to submit in FY13 and retire in FY14 but all within calendar year 2013.

Just another confusing aspect about the program. It appears no one took the time and asked how will the 'customer' see this information...

My advice, if you are interested...just submit. The powers that be will decide if you are elgible, heck even if you are not since they do not seem to know their own rules you might get lucky and still get approved.

DWWSWWD
07-30-2013, 10:34 PM
19 years: 19 * 2.5% * 0.99 (1% penalty) = 47.025%
18 years: 18 * 2.5% * 0.98 (2% penalty) = 44.55%
17 years: 17 * 2.5% * 0.97 (3% penalty) = 41.225%
16 years: 16 * 2.5% * 0.96 (4% penalty) = 38.4%
15 years: 15 * 2.5% * 0.95 (5% penalty) = 35.625%

Those numbers are correct. Unless you took REDUX. YIKES! Still a great deal if you're a fat TSgt with a couple of PT fails under your belt.

grimreaper
07-30-2013, 10:38 PM
Unless you took REDUX. YIKES! Still a great deal if you're a fat TSgt with a couple of PT fails under your belt.

Definitely. At least they will wave the CSB recoupment w/ REDUX. That would be a double whammy.

cloudFFVII
08-04-2013, 01:40 AM
WeaponsTSGT (and anyone else who may be curious):

As a general rule, ANY voluntary retirement/separation action will result in you losing your Transfer of Education Benefit (TEB) eligibility. In addition to that, any months of benefits that your dependents have utilized will be sought after by the VA if you accept said voluntary retirement/separation.

For reference sake, the AFI is 36-2306, Attachment 9, A9.18.8.5 "Failure to Complete the Service Agreement".

One other thing: A lot of people think when they utilize TEB, they lose the benefit for themselves. This is simply NOT TRUE. If you DID take a voluntary retirement AND your TEB ADSC was waived, while you'd lose the TEB portion, you would keep your Post 9/11 GI Bill benefit. Of course, with the TEB conversion, your MGIB would be gone forever.

Finally, anyone who has questions on their TEB status should ALWAYS call the Total Force Service Center at 1-800-525-0102, or submit a web inquiry through your MyPers portal.

imported_wtrwlkr
08-05-2013, 03:59 AM
This is semi-related, and I would like to have started a new post, but as I'm a new member, I'm apparently not allowed to. Concerning the FY14 Active duty service commitment waiver, I applied for the program two weeks ago. The memo AFPC put out regarding the program stated that AFPC is the decision authority and that no other organization or unit is allowed to delay or disapprove applications. My superintendent (whom I advised I was applying before i pushed the button) came to me one week ago stating the commander had my application on his desk and wanted to know my reasons for applying. I gave my sup the answer and assumed the CC would recommend/not recommend on the application and send it up to the base separation authority.

This past friday (one week and five days after I pushed the button), I asked my sup if he heard anything about my application and he replied that it's still with the commander and "it's not looking good" because the CC believes if someone signed up for x amount of years, they should serve their full term. Never mind the fact that the AF is looking to get rid of people and instituted a program allowing members who want to get out early to do so. I didn't reply to my sup at that time, but I can't help but think the CC is purposely delaying my application. I know I can't really prove this and I may just be paranoid, but sq leadership has said in the past that they're doing everything in their power to keep people here as long as possible.

My questions are: 1. How long should I wait for the CC to have the application before I start making waves and 2. What would be the best avenue to get the commander to stamp my application with his recommendation and send it up? I don't want to make waves, but I don't like the idea of the commander disobeying Air Force guidance on a program I'm trying to take advantage of just to suit his personal agenda. Thanks in advance for any advice. My apologies if I seem like I'm spamming.

Bunch
08-05-2013, 05:25 AM
This is semi-related, and I would like to have started a new post, but as I'm a new member, I'm apparently not allowed to. Concerning the FY14 Active duty service commitment waiver, I applied for the program two weeks ago. The memo AFPC put out regarding the program stated that AFPC is the decision authority and that no other organization or unit is allowed to delay or disapprove applications. My superintendent (whom I advised I was applying before i pushed the button) came to me one week ago stating the commander had my application on his desk and wanted to know my reasons for applying. I gave my sup the answer and assumed the CC would recommend/not recommend on the application and send it up to the base separation authority.

This past friday (one week and five days after I pushed the button), I asked my sup if he heard anything about my application and he replied that it's still with the commander and "it's not looking good" because the CC believes if someone signed up for x amount of years, they should serve their full term. Never mind the fact that the AF is looking to get rid of people and instituted a program allowing members who want to get out early to do so. I didn't reply to my sup at that time, but I can't help but think the CC is purposely delaying my application. I know I can't really prove this and I may just be paranoid, but sq leadership has said in the past that they're doing everything in their power to keep people here as long as possible.

My questions are: 1. How long should I wait for the CC to have the application before I start making waves and 2. What would be the best avenue to get the commander to stamp my application with his recommendation and send it up? I don't want to make waves, but I don't like the idea of the commander disobeying Air Force guidance on a program I'm trying to take advantage of just to suit his personal agenda. Thanks in advance for any advice. My apologies if I seem like I'm spamming.

I hate when things like this happen. If I was you and I don't see any movement I will call the AFPC office that is managing the program and ask them for guidance. If you are in the right, I imagine that your CC will get a quick email regarding the status of your application and he will have to send it up.

Call them and tell them straight up what the situation is.

imported_AFKILO7
08-05-2013, 11:01 AM
This is semi-related, and I would like to have started a new post, but as I'm a new member, I'm apparently not allowed to. Concerning the FY14 Active duty service commitment waiver, I applied for the program two weeks ago. The memo AFPC put out regarding the program stated that AFPC is the decision authority and that no other organization or unit is allowed to delay or disapprove applications. My superintendent (whom I advised I was applying before i pushed the button) came to me one week ago stating the commander had my application on his desk and wanted to know my reasons for applying. I gave my sup the answer and assumed the CC would recommend/not recommend on the application and send it up to the base separation authority.

This past friday (one week and five days after I pushed the button), I asked my sup if he heard anything about my application and he replied that it's still with the commander and "it's not looking good" because the CC believes if someone signed up for x amount of years, they should serve their full term. Never mind the fact that the AF is looking to get rid of people and instituted a program allowing members who want to get out early to do so. I didn't reply to my sup at that time, but I can't help but think the CC is purposely delaying my application. I know I can't really prove this and I may just be paranoid, but sq leadership has said in the past that they're doing everything in their power to keep people here as long as possible.

My questions are: 1. How long should I wait for the CC to have the application before I start making waves and 2. What would be the best avenue to get the commander to stamp my application with his recommendation and send it up? I don't want to make waves, but I don't like the idea of the commander disobeying Air Force guidance on a program I'm trying to take advantage of just to suit his personal agenda. Thanks in advance for any advice. My apologies if I seem like I'm spamming.
Wow. Going off the info provided alone...wow. I would be pissed and I wouldnt have waited.

DWWSWWD
08-05-2013, 05:07 PM
This is semi-related, and I would like to have started a new post, but as I'm a new member, I'm apparently not allowed to. Concerning the FY14 Active duty service commitment waiver, I applied for the program two weeks ago. The memo AFPC put out regarding the program stated that AFPC is the decision authority and that no other organization or unit is allowed to delay or disapprove applications. My superintendent (whom I advised I was applying before i pushed the button) came to me one week ago stating the commander had my application on his desk and wanted to know my reasons for applying. I gave my sup the answer and assumed the CC would recommend/not recommend on the application and send it up to the base separation authority.

This past friday (one week and five days after I pushed the button), I asked my sup if he heard anything about my application and he replied that it's still with the commander and "it's not looking good" because the CC believes if someone signed up for x amount of years, they should serve their full term. Never mind the fact that the AF is looking to get rid of people and instituted a program allowing members who want to get out early to do so. I didn't reply to my sup at that time, but I can't help but think the CC is purposely delaying my application. I know I can't really prove this and I may just be paranoid, but sq leadership has said in the past that they're doing everything in their power to keep people here as long as possible.

My questions are: 1. How long should I wait for the CC to have the application before I start making waves and 2. What would be the best avenue to get the commander to stamp my application with his recommendation and send it up? I don't want to make waves, but I don't like the idea of the commander disobeying Air Force guidance on a program I'm trying to take advantage of just to suit his personal agenda. Thanks in advance for any advice. My apologies if I seem like I'm spamming. You've waited long enough. First Sergeant is your first step and you should do that now.

Bunch
08-05-2013, 05:29 PM
You've waited long enough. First Sergeant is your first step and you should do that now.

That too...but I've seen some First Sgt's of late that are nothing but the CC's butlers. If he has one without a backbone I don't see how he will be of much help.

imported_wtrwlkr
08-05-2013, 06:09 PM
Thanks for the replies, all. Bunch, I don't expect my shirt to be of much assistance. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone in my immediate chain of command to be of much help. My plan right now is to contact the MPF (the next step in the process) and see if they can ping the CC. Failing that, AFPC will be my next stop. Afterwards, other than an IG complaint, I don't see anything else that could be done. My only hangup about contacting the MPF or AFPC is that the memo regarding the program specifically states not to contact them before 8 weeks have passed after submission. I just don't want my paperwork to sit at the CC's desk for those 8 weeks or conveniently "lost" during that time.

Bunch
08-05-2013, 08:06 PM
Thanks for the replies, all. Bunch, I don't expect my shirt to be of much assistance. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone in my immediate chain of command to be of much help. My plan right now is to contact the MPF (the next step in the process) and see if they can ping the CC. Failing that, AFPC will be my next stop. Afterwards, other than an IG complaint, I don't see anything else that could be done. My only hangup about contacting the MPF or AFPC is that the memo regarding the program specifically states not to contact them before 8 weeks have passed after submission. I just don't want my paperwork to sit at the CC's desk for those 8 weeks or conveniently "lost" during that time.

But your application hasn't been submitted yet. Usually for these programs when they receive an application AFPC will send you an email saying that they receive your application and to not contact them for certain amount of time with inquiries about the status. In your case that hasn't happened because your CC is holding to your application. That's why I advice you to call AFPC and seek help, usually for programs like this they get a goal amount of application they need to receive to show the program was a success, I'm pretty sure your CC will be reminded pretty quick about the program guidance.

TWilliams
08-05-2013, 08:58 PM
I'm not sure what kind of command climate you work in, but I think you should give your 1st Sgt the opportunity to do his job and work this for you or failing that have you considered requesting an appointment to actually speak to the commander about it? Taking care of things at the lowest level is usually the best in my experience.

VFFTSGT
08-06-2013, 05:44 PM
Thanks for the replies, all. Bunch, I don't expect my shirt to be of much assistance. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone in my immediate chain of command to be of much help. My plan right now is to contact the MPF (the next step in the process) and see if they can ping the CC. Failing that, AFPC will be my next stop. Afterwards, other than an IG complaint, I don't see anything else that could be done. My only hangup about contacting the MPF or AFPC is that the memo regarding the program specifically states not to contact them before 8 weeks have passed after submission. I just don't want my paperwork to sit at the CC's desk for those 8 weeks or conveniently "lost" during that time.

Your commander is willfully ignoring Air Force guidance in favor of his personal agenda.

As you noted before:

No commander, supervisor, agency, unit or organization is authorized to delay, divert or disapprove applications under this program. AFPC Military Retirements Branch (DPSOR) and Military Separations Branch (DPSOS) will serve as the final approval or disapproval authority for E-8 and below.

Your FIRST STOP should be the wing IG.

If you want to use the chain of command, the group commander is next, not the first sergeant. It's your commander that is the problem. But time sensitive issues like this don't have time for the slow process called the chain of command.

I might also consider calling AFPC, tell them your commander is intentionally delaying the application process and asking them what their suggestion is. Maybe they have authority to pull your application anyways and bypass the commander.

The longer you wait, the less your chances are at approval because while your commander is delaying your application, AFPC is still getting and approving applications. They could hit the target number before yours gets in; you need to take the action you think is going to get you the fastest results period.

P.S. Yes, I am lurking on here occasionally to help others like this.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-06-2013, 06:21 PM
The way he presented the story he hasn't even spoken to the CC about it yet.

Go talk to the CC first! It might be the SQ Superintendent that is fouling things up.

Then consider other avenues if he keeps your package in a desk drawer. He has the right to non-concur but not to mothball your package.

It is your responsibility to get that package moving again but right now I'm not sure if you know what is going on with it.

You got a crappy answer from the Sq Superintendent and you need to talk to the CC.

It isn't IG time until you know more of what is going on.

You'll end up looking dumb running to the IG when the SQ Superintendent will say, "no, he misunderstood what I said."

Measure Man
08-06-2013, 06:24 PM
The way he presented the story he hasn't even spoken to the CC about it yet.

Go talk to the CC first! It might be the SQ Superintendent that is fouling things up.

Then consider other avenues if he keeps your package in a desk drawer. He has the right to non-concur but not to mothball your package.

It is your responsibility to get that package moving again but right now I'm not sure if you what is going on with it.

You got a crappy answer from the Sq Superintendent and you need to talk to the CC.

It isn't IG time until you know more of what is going on.

I agree with that.

I'd make an appointment to see the commander so you can talk face-to-face...ask him what his concerns are and see if you can answer them.

Also, it's alot easier for the commander to say 'no' without justification to a package than it is to a person.

DWWSWWD
08-06-2013, 06:47 PM
I agree with that.

I'd make an appointment to see the commander so you can talk face-to-face...ask him what his concerns are and see if you can answer them.

I'm a little late to the party here but in hopes of reiterating...... Talk to your Commander. If he has a recommend/non-recommend block, there is absolutely nothing the IG can do for you. I would take a few minutes to type out some talking points. You can either send these to him ahead of time or just use them to make sure you hit all of your points while you have his ear. It is easy to get nervous, distracted or otherwise off point when you are in front of the man with so much at stake. Send him an e-mail today..... "Sir, I'm hearing that you have some concerns about my application for early retirement. I'd like to speak with you about why this is a great option for me and my family right now. I may also be able to mitigate some operational concerns that you may have. I look forward to talking with you soon. Blah, blah." Make him look you in the eye and tell you that since he'll have a two month gap without a basketball hander outer, he's going to ruin your life. It won't happen. There's no reason for him not to let you go. Be articulate, be calm, try to understand his point of view and then crush him with it. Good luck.

VFFTSGT
08-06-2013, 07:04 PM
I would like to know if the guy applied for early retirement or early separation - he only mentioned ADSC waiver, which is an automatic process with the FM programs.

I got out under the Voluntary Early Out Force Management program, which came with an automatic ADSC and DEROS waiver. Several people in my unit have. The online application goes straight from you to the commander. It took the commander less than 24 hours to click approve/submit. It then goes to Base Manpower. Again, quick approval process. It then goes straight to AFPC. No on else in the chain of command has a thing to do with it.

I had final approval from AFPC around 2 weeks from start to finish...so has everyone else in my uint.

The commander is of substantial rank, educated, etc. He should have read the PSDM; he should be able to understand it. There is no purpose for any delay much less a week +.

SomeRandomGuy
08-06-2013, 07:14 PM
I would like to know if the guy applied for early retirement or early separation - he only mentioned ADSC waiver, which is an automatic process with the FM programs.

I got out under the Voluntary Early Out Force Management program, which came with an automatic ADSC and DEROS waiver. Several people in my unit have. The online application goes straight from you to the commander. It took the commander less than 24 hours to click approve/submit. It then goes to Base Manpower. Again, quick approval process. It then goes straight to AFPC. No on else in the chain of command has a thing to do with it.

I had final approval from AFPC around 2 weeks from start to finish...so has everyone else in my uint.

The commander is of substantial rank, educated, etc. He should have read the PSDM; he should be able to understand it. There is no purpose for any delay much less a week +.

The process you are talking about is all electronic. You intiate the process on VMPF or MILPERS or whatever they call it these days. That initiates a CMS (Case Management System) case with personnel. The metric for CMS cases is that all cases should be resolved within 45 days. The system also pings you everyday if you have a case in your box longer than 3 days (maybe as long as 5). The MPS commander and MAJCOM can view all open cases and they do not take kindly to people sitting on cases for personal reasons. That is the reason your commander had to act on your case. They simply have no other option. You cannot hide a CMS case in hopes that it goes away. They really should have used CMS/MILPERS for these applications also. It is so much easier when a person can track their status electronically plus it stops commanders from blocking packages.

VFFTSGT
08-06-2013, 07:22 PM
The process you are talking about is all electronic. You intiate the process on VMPF or MILPERS or whatever they call it these days. That initiates a CMS (Case Management System) case with personnel. The metric for CMS cases is that all cases should be resolved within 45 days. The system also pings you everyday if you have a case in your box longer than 3 days (maybe as long as 5). The MPS commander and MAJCOM can view all open cases and they do not take kindly to people sitting on cases for personal reasons. That is the reason your commander had to act on your case. They simply have no other option. You cannot hide a CMS case in hopes that it goes away. They really should have used CMS/MILPERS for these applications also. It is so much easier when a person can track their status electronically plus it stops commanders from blocking packages.

That is the only way provided to apply for these programs (or at least I thought)....I was slightly confused by the poster when he said it was "sitting on the commander's desk."

SomeRandomGuy
08-06-2013, 07:34 PM
That is the only way provided to apply for these programs (or at least I thought)....I was slightly confused by the poster when he said it was "sitting on the commander's desk."

I guess I am confused too. I went back and re-read his post and he said he, "pushed the button". By doing that it should have created a case and routed it to the commander. He should be able to go into VMPS/MILPERS and check on the status of his case. It should say exactly what level the case is at right now. I actually kind of wonder why it would route through the commander anyways. I admit I have been out of the loop a while but when I was around the early seperation routed to the comamnder because they have to approve. With this program it appears you do not need commander approval. Maybe he should call AFPC and ask them how to look up his case. That might answer a lot of questions. In fact when he calls AFPC may they can grab the case from the commanders box and force it through. I used to have that ability for finance within CMS. If a case was in the wrong box and it needed my orgs action I could go grab it.

imported_wtrwlkr
08-06-2013, 08:33 PM
Thanks again for all the advice. I applied for early separation, not early retirement. "On the commander's desk" is a figure of speech in this case. The process is electronic, but I don't know how to look up the CMS number through vMPF. I'll see if the AFPC hotline can help me out with that. I have not actually spoken to the commander, just my superintendent. As of yesterday, the sup's answer was still "the commander has it". I'll set up an appointment with the boss today. I also went to the MPF to confirm the status. They pinged the CC requesting an update.

VFSSGT is right, though, the CC should have at least skimmed the memo AFPC sent out and should know he isn't authorized to do anything with my application except rubber stamp it and send it along. I can't see much of an excuse for my application sitting in his inbox for two weeks other than it slipping his mind, in which case the friendly reminder from the MPF should resolve the situation.

My plan ahead is 1. Ask the MPF to remind the CC (done) 2. Talk to the CC face to face (setting up an appt. now) 3. Talk to AFPC about forcing his hand in the matter. If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know. Thanks again for all of the responses.

45ACP
08-07-2013, 06:33 PM
I was just denied by AFPC, they stated that my (3D1XX)AFSC wasn't eligible. My AFSC is on the force shaping matrix. So what Big Blue is telling me is I can punch at 16 with no bennies, but my peers that are radio troops can get TERA. I am really confused; you would think they want 16yr 3D1XX MSgts out. I am C-coded so seems like if I am a non-deployer it would be a no brainer to let us retire early. It’s a win win for the Air Force, I plan to stay past 20...so they would be paying us less retirement in the long run. The message did inform me to keep checking TERA eligibility because they may open it up to more AFSCs.

20+Years
08-08-2013, 06:15 PM
In case you need it here is the High-36 calculator from OSD. Good luck with your decision. http://militarypay.defense.gov/tools/high3cal.html


EDIT: That calculator may not be all that helpful because the minimum number for years for input is 20. According to the same site TERA retirment is calculated by finding your original multiplier and then reducing it by a percentage based on how many months you are short.

The calculator also fails because the minimum payraise is 2.0%. Like we will be getting that for a few years...

DWWSWWD
08-08-2013, 07:07 PM
The calculator also fails because the minimum payraise is 2.0%. Like we will be getting that for a few years... I hate that calculator. You should be able to take the pay raise, inflation rate and tax rate out of it. For a while I was using it to figure the difference between 25 and 30 years and everything in between. It appeared to be a much larger difference than the reality. To get reality, difference in today's dollars, I hand jammed it and then later I found the no-kidding Air Force site that uses all of your dates to compute retired pay to the 1/12yr for different variables. They don't have TERA though. Here it is - https://w20.afpc.randolph.af.mil/retsepcalcnet35/RetirementCalculator.aspx. Pretty helpful though. Also tells you the amount you'd pay for SBP.

Shaken1976
08-08-2013, 07:42 PM
I hate that calculator. You should be able to take the pay raise, inflation rate and tax rate out of it. For a while I was using it to figure the difference between 25 and 30 years and everything in between. It appeared to be a much larger difference than the reality. To get reality, difference in today's dollars, I hand jammed it and then later I found the no-kidding Air Force site that uses all of your dates to compute retired pay to the 1/12yr for different variables. They don't have TERA though. Here it is - https://w20.afpc.randolph.af.mil/retsepcalcnet35/RetirementCalculator.aspx. Pretty helpful though. Also tells you the amount you'd pay for SBP.

That is cool. Would be nice if it was set up for TERA. You can find all of your dates on MPF for the calculator.

20+Years
08-15-2013, 04:02 PM
Has anyone seen an approval through AFPC yet?

20+Years
08-15-2013, 08:44 PM
Speak of the devil, just saw an approval for an early seperation request from AFPC. They should be trickling down now for folks.

RedTitan19
08-15-2013, 09:50 PM
We won't see any approvals until after the deadline for applications (19 August). It isn't first come-first serve. They have to rack and stack the applications and then the approvals will start flowing. Personally, I don't see any applications being approved until around the end of the month.

cloudFFVII
08-16-2013, 03:42 AM
I was just denied by AFPC, they stated that my (3D1XX)AFSC wasn't eligible. My AFSC is on the force shaping matrix. So what Big Blue is telling me is I can punch at 16 with no bennies, but my peers that are radio troops can get TERA. I am really confused; you would think they want 16yr 3D1XX MSgts out. I am C-coded so seems like if I am a non-deployer it would be a no brainer to let us retire early. It’s a win win for the Air Force, I plan to stay past 20...so they would be paying us less retirement in the long run. The message did inform me to keep checking TERA eligibility because they may open it up to more AFSCs.

While the AFSC might be on the matrix, it's got to be colored Blue under your respective year group for you to be eligible.

For example, while Personnelists (3S0X1) are ALL eligible from 15-19, Education and Training (3S2X1) is only available for those at the 15 year mark only (all others are colored Red).

As with all things Air Force, it's definitely subject to change, my guess is MyPers would be your best bet (keep bringing up and checking the matrix to see if there is changes within your AFSC).

45ACP
08-16-2013, 08:05 PM
Cloud, it is blue on the enlisted force management Matrix for my year group, but it's not on the Tera list. I think it's a test to see who wants to punch.