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Shaken1976
07-22-2013, 03:33 PM
I have been busting my ass the past several months since my profile became less restrictive. I have lost 10 lbs and 3 inches off my waist. My waist was way under the max. All I needed to do to pass was 31 situps which I wasn't worried about. I have been knocking out 45 which is my max without breaking a sweat. Today I was at 26 at my halfway point and was ready to go. Then the FAC member started not counting them, then I panicked, and I hit 30. So mad at myself for panicking. Should have just taken a break for a second, gathered myself, and moved on. I hope my cc lets me retest in 5 days. I showed significant improvement since my last test. failed by .3

imported_DannyJ
07-22-2013, 03:40 PM
I have been busting my ass the past several months since my profile became less restrictive. I have lost 10 lbs and 3 inches off my waist. My waist was way under the max. All I needed to do to pass was 31 situps which I wasn't worried about. I have been knocking out 45 which is my max without breaking a sweat. Today I was at 26 at my halfway point and was ready to go. Then the FAC member started not counting them, then I panicked, and I hit 30. So mad at myself for panicking. Should have just taken a break for a second, gathered myself, and moved on. I hope my cc lets me retest in 5 days. I showed significant improvement since my last test. failed by .3

A good CC will take your situation into consideration. I would suggest getting on his calander before you're put on it. Best of luck!

technomage1
07-22-2013, 03:43 PM
I have been busting my ass the past several months since my profile became less restrictive. I have lost 10 lbs and 3 inches off my waist. My waist was way under the max. All I needed to do to pass was 31 situps which I wasn't worried about. I have been knocking out 45 which is my max without breaking a sweat. Today I was at 26 at my halfway point and was ready to go. Then the FAC member started not counting them, then I panicked, and I hit 30. So mad at myself for panicking. Should have just taken a break for a second, gathered myself, and moved on. I hope my cc lets me retest in 5 days. I showed significant improvement since my last test. failed by .3

I know you can do it, good luck on your retest. Stress is the worst part of the test, in my opinion.

Shaken1976
07-22-2013, 03:45 PM
A good CC will take your situation into consideration. I would suggest getting on his calander before you're put on it. Best of luck!

I already talked to my shirt and explained what happened. My PTLs have seen me knock out 45 situps without breaking a sweat or hitting that point where you struggle to come up. But this time I just freaked out. They are all talking about me now.

DWWSWWD
07-22-2013, 03:50 PM
I can't believe these tests aren't videotaped.

fufu
07-22-2013, 03:53 PM
I never stop counting for whomever I'm counting for. I don't get paid to determine what is a proper situp or not... What kind of DB would do that? Hell, two years ago, a guy did 41 situps, I told the FAC he did 42 (the minimum). Nobody should be punished for one f'ing situp.

Shaken1976
07-22-2013, 03:53 PM
I can't believe these tests aren't videotaped.

I know. Really they should be. Here the FAC counts for you not another tester. Had that been the case I probably would have been fine. I probably wouldn't have panicked. I just kind of freaked out. I don't know why I freaked out so bad. I was good going into the test.

Shaken1976
07-22-2013, 03:54 PM
I never stop counting for whomever I'm counting for. I don't get paid to determine what is a proper situp or not... What kind of DB would do that? Hell, two years ago, a guy did 41 situps, I told the FAC he did 42 (the minimum). Nobody should be punished for one f'ing situp.

I know at least 3 weren't counted. Then I just kind of lost focus and lost momentum and then panicked.

CJSmith
07-22-2013, 03:55 PM
I can't believe these tests aren't videotaped.

We should all be issued GoPros. It would probably help in many situations... Or make matters worse.

Shaken1976
07-22-2013, 03:58 PM
We should all be issued GoPros. It would probably help in many situations... Or make matters worse.

What is a GoPro? Off to Google.

Kicker47
07-22-2013, 04:14 PM
Indeed...the stress is the worst part. I've seen guys easily score mid-80s on practice tests, but barely pass on official tests due to nerves and anxiety.

I've been lucky enough to always have counters that would warn me before not not counting a pushup or situp. They would say things like "watch your 90 degrees", or "keep your hands on your chest" whenever it looked like they may have to stop counting if I didn't fix my form. I've always done the same when counting. IMO, people shouldn't just stop counting without a warning or telling you what to fix.

Pullinteeth
07-22-2013, 04:27 PM
IMO, people shouldn't just stop counting without a warning or telling you what to fix.

Nope...not just your opinion....it is in the AFI...

"Your counter will not count incorrect sit-ups. Your counter will tell you what you are doing wrong and will repeat the last number of correct sit-ups until you correct the error."

Kicker47
07-22-2013, 04:32 PM
Even better.

imported_DannyJ
07-22-2013, 04:37 PM
I can't believe these tests aren't videotaped.

Excellent idea. Doing it from now on.

Sergeant eNYgma
07-22-2013, 04:58 PM
Sorry to hear it, really am. Though I myself have never failed one I do get nervous before hand because of the consequences of failing. I did time as a FAC guy when they were rotating Airmen through but the civs still had oversight. THey said I was too lenient with what I counted (I really tried not to screw people) so after awhile removed me from the position and sent me back to my unit. I had to explain it all to my unit as they wondered what happened like I never failed anyone I failed plenty of people who just couldnt get near the standard.

Anyway wish you luck on the restest, you sound like you are way better than the standard anyways.

El Gringo Verde
07-22-2013, 05:17 PM
Here at Base X, all of our tests are recorded. Eliminates he said/she said.

CJSmith
07-22-2013, 05:21 PM
What is a GoPro? Off to Google.

Small portable cameras sports enthusiasts use to capture their epic moments.

http://i.imgur.com/j1g3zlh.jpg

Shaken1976
07-22-2013, 05:26 PM
Sorry to hear it, really am. Though I myself have never failed one I do get nervous before hand because of the consequences of failing. I did time as a FAC guy when they were rotating Airmen through but the civs still had oversight. THey said I was too lenient with what I counted (I really tried not to screw people) so after awhile removed me from the position and sent me back to my unit. I had to explain it all to my unit as they wondered what happened like I never failed anyone I failed plenty of people who just couldnt get near the standard.

Anyway wish you luck on the restest, you sound like you are way better than the standard anyways.

I have been busting my ass since my last failure. I was in a serious car accident and was not allowed to do any PT for over a year. As soon as I was allowed I started busting my ass. I went from being out of breath after 20 minutes on the treadmill to being able to knock out 40 no sweat. I have been doing 30-40 on the treadmill and 30-40 on the arc trainer. Plus weight training. I have also been swimming, biking, and doing strong core workouts. I really don't know how I didn't even hit 31 today. I really thought I would be okay.

tiredretiredE7
07-22-2013, 06:01 PM
I have been busting my ass since my last failure. I was in a serious car accident and was not allowed to do any PT for over a year. As soon as I was allowed I started busting my ass. I went from being out of breath after 20 minutes on the treadmill to being able to knock out 40 no sweat. I have been doing 30-40 on the treadmill and 30-40 on the arc trainer. Plus weight training. I have also been swimming, biking, and doing strong core workouts. I really don't know how I didn't even hit 31 today. I really thought I would be okay.

Make sure you pretest 2 weeks ahead of the test with a PTL who will be testing you. Then stop doing any sort of workout two days before the test. Make sure and avoid eating anything heavy (no beef, ham but eat fish instead) and try to get into the routine of testing on an empty stomach. Your system could have been still attempting to digest the previous evenings meal and this WILL affect your test scores.

There isn't anything against you brining a camera to videotape your own test. Good luck. How many failures will this be in the last two years?

Sergeant eNYgma
07-22-2013, 06:06 PM
I have been busting my ass since my last failure. I was in a serious car accident and was not allowed to do any PT for over a year. As soon as I was allowed I started busting my ass. I went from being out of breath after 20 minutes on the treadmill to being able to knock out 40 no sweat. I have been doing 30-40 on the treadmill and 30-40 on the arc trainer. Plus weight training. I have also been swimming, biking, and doing strong core workouts. I really don't know how I didn't even hit 31 today. I really thought I would be okay.

Sounds like you were straight beasting, that in itself is something to be proud of. Trust me I feel you on how the tests that can be diffrent, for a couple of my tests here they made me take a pre test and I either straight failed or scored LOW...like 77 lol. I think it's a psychological thing with me or something if I KNOW this will have no impact my brain will just say fuck it and my body will follow. If I know my ass is on the line I'll do what needs to be done.

Shaken1976
07-22-2013, 06:08 PM
Make sure you pretest 2 weeks ahead of the test with a PTL who will be testing you. Then stop doing any sort of workout two days before the test. Make sure and avoid eating anything heavy (no beef, ham but eat fish instead) and try to get into the routine of testing on an empty stomach. Your system could have been still attempting to digest the previous evenings meal and this WILL affect your test scores.

There isn't anything against you brining a camera to videotape your own test. Good luck. How many failures will this be in the last two years?

Here the FAC tests you and there are no pretests. The FAC counts your situps, pushups and all that. It is not a forgiving situation at all. I seriously wasn't worried about my situps at all. I was a little concerned about my waist...but once they measured me I was good.

20+Years
07-22-2013, 06:19 PM
Damn...sorry to hear. Hope you get a retest.

I think they should build a retest within ___ days into the AFI. If you pass, no harm, no foul, no record of the fail.

jpeters
07-22-2013, 06:31 PM
I have been busting my ass the past several months since my profile became less restrictive. I have lost 10 lbs and 3 inches off my waist. My waist was way under the max. All I needed to do to pass was 31 situps which I wasn't worried about. I have been knocking out 45 which is my max without breaking a sweat. Today I was at 26 at my halfway point and was ready to go. Then the FAC member started not counting them, then I panicked, and I hit 30. So mad at myself for panicking. Should have just taken a break for a second, gathered myself, and moved on. I hope my cc lets me retest in 5 days. I showed significant improvement since my last test. failed by .3

I think that is BS, our guys here will count one after they tell you what you are doing wrong and will stop counting after that until you correct what you are doing wrong. It sounds like you got screwed, but hopefully they let you retest real quick so you can show that the FAC guy was a DB. I know I went in to get my waist measured two days before my last test and they measured it at 34 barely, the day of the test, a totally different dude measured it and he said it was a 39. I was like WTF! There is no way you can gain 5 inches in two days. Come to find out the guy that did mine on the day of the test was new and had no idea what he was doing.

Shaken1976
07-22-2013, 06:47 PM
I think that is BS, our guys here will count one after they tell you what you are doing wrong and will stop counting after that until you correct what you are doing wrong. It sounds like you got screwed, but hopefully they let you retest real quick so you can show that the FAC guy was a DB. I know I went in to get my waist measured two days before my last test and they measured it at 34 barely, the day of the test, a totally different dude measured it and he said it was a 39. I was like WTF! There is no way you can gain 5 inches in two days. Come to find out the guy that did mine on the day of the test was new and had no idea what he was doing.

I measured 33.5 which I was completely happy with. I just freaked on the sit ups. I hate the waiting game. I wish they would just tell me whether or not they were going to let me retest.

technomage1
07-22-2013, 06:59 PM
I measured 33.5 which I was completely happy with. I just freaked on the sit ups. I hate the waiting game. I wish they would just tell me whether or not they were going to let me retest.

The waiting is the hardest part. Regardless, try to put this behind you and do your best on the next one. Get a good night's sleep, wear your lucky socks, do what you need to do to get your head on straight again. You could also try talking to the chaplain just to get some counseling and get it off your chest.

CrustySMSgt
07-23-2013, 05:00 AM
I never stop counting for whomever I'm counting for. I don't get paid to determine what is a proper situp or not... What kind of DB would do that? Hell, two years ago, a guy did 41 situps, I told the FAC he did 42 (the minimum). Nobody should be punished for one f'ing situp.

That's a pretty shitty answer...

PT GOD
07-23-2013, 05:04 AM
That's a pretty shitty answer...

Hellz yeaz dat be a shitty answer!!! Dat be da same as giving a shitty troop a 5 EPR, dont be helpin nobody, and hurts er'body else!!

You know what i be doing to keep from freaking out like an 11 year old girl if the counter don't count one..i prepare myself year round, ever year knowing goods and damns wells that I can pump out double or triple the numbers reckuired ...shit, dont count one..hell don't count 10 or 20 of them i'm stills gonna be maxing out!!!

loggie94
07-23-2013, 05:54 AM
I measured 33.5 which I was completely happy with. I just freaked on the sit ups. I hate the waiting game. I wish they would just tell me whether or not they were going to let me retest.

First, congrats on all the progress you've made. Sounds like you've hit it hard and have made solid improvements. Second, I hope your CC can see (and hear from your PTLs) the efforts you've made and gives you the second chance (perhaps invalidating your test so you can retest). Take one of your own PTLs with you to to the re-test. Another set of eyes can at least kepe the tester honest - or help point out what you are doing wrong in the moment.

This is exactly why there needs to be flexibility in the system -- a guy can work his ass off, be fit, strong and in shape...but still have a bad day.

Best of luck on the next test!

Shaken1976
07-23-2013, 11:57 AM
Hellz yeaz dat be a shitty answer!!! Dat be da same as giving a shitty troop a 5 EPR, dont be helpin nobody, and hurts er'body else!!

You know what i be doing to keep from freaking out like an 11 year old girl if the counter don't count one..i prepare myself year round, ever year knowing goods and damns wells that I can pump out double or triple the numbers reckuired ...shit, dont count one..hell don't count 10 or 20 of them i'm stills gonna be maxing out!!!

KNowing I am feeding the troll here...but here goes.

As soon as I was off my profile from my car accident I started working HARD. I have been at the gym for hours each day. I was able do well over what I needed on my test and wasnt even worried about it. Not until they stopped counting. I just completely lost my focus. That same afternoon I knocked out almost twice what I did on my test that morning. I know I can do them. One doesn't lose three inches off of their waist without a lot of hard work and dedication.

coloringoutsidethelines
07-23-2013, 12:59 PM
I have never scored lower than a 91 and I still stress out like mad before that test. All it takes is one bad muscle cramp.

imported_oih82w8
07-23-2013, 02:07 PM
I have been busting my ass the past several months since my profile became less restrictive. I have lost 10 lbs and 3 inches off my waist. My waist was way under the max. All I needed to do to pass was 31 situps which I wasn't worried about. I have been knocking out 45 which is my max without breaking a sweat. Today I was at 26 at my halfway point and was ready to go. Then the FAC member started not counting them, then I panicked, and I hit 30. So mad at myself for panicking. Should have just taken a break for a second, gathered myself, and moved on. I hope my cc lets me retest in 5 days. I showed significant improvement since my last test. failed by .3

Maybe the "counter" forgot how to count...ten...ten...ten...one...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZjqucrnI9w

PT GOD
07-23-2013, 02:39 PM
KNowing I am feeding the troll here...but here goes.

As soon as I was off my profile from my car accident I started working HARD. I have been at the gym for hours each day. I was able do well over what I needed on my test and wasnt even worried about it. Not until they stopped counting. I just completely lost my focus. That same afternoon I knocked out almost twice what I did on my test that morning. I know I can do them. One doesn't lose three inches off of their waist without a lot of hard work and dedication.

from the words of the great Mr Han

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/25349000.jpg

Drackore
07-23-2013, 03:14 PM
Freaking awesome idea. I have an iPad....maybe I need to bring a Wingman with me for my tests to record em for me.


I can't believe these tests aren't videotaped.

imported_StandardsAMust
07-23-2013, 03:25 PM
I have been busting my ass the past several months since my profile became less restrictive. I have lost 10 lbs and 3 inches off my waist. My waist was way under the max. All I needed to do to pass was 31 situps which I wasn't worried about. I have been knocking out 45 which is my max without breaking a sweat. Today I was at 26 at my halfway point and was ready to go. Then the FAC member started not counting them, then I panicked, and I hit 30. So mad at myself for panicking. Should have just taken a break for a second, gathered myself, and moved on. I hope my cc lets me retest in 5 days. I showed significant improvement since my last test. failed by .3

Why don't you use the AFI to your advantage. I just reviewed it...according to page one, it appears to be expired.

"The guidance in this Memorandum becomes void after 180 days have elapsed from the date of this Memorandum, or upon incorporation by interim change to, or rewrite of AFI 36-2905, whichever is earlier." The memorandum is dated 3 January 2013. I would compare your scores against the charts listed in the original AFI and go from there.

Capt Alfredo
07-23-2013, 04:45 PM
One doesn't lose three inches off of their waist without a lot of hard work and dedication.

Sometimes a proper taping can net you three inches...true story and happened without losing a pound.

Capt Alfredo
07-23-2013, 04:46 PM
Why don't you use the AFI to your advantage. I just reviewed it...according to page one, it appears to be expired.

"The guidance in this Memorandum becomes void after 180 days have elapsed from the date of this Memorandum, or upon incorporation by interim change to, or rewrite of AFI 36-2905, whichever is earlier." The memorandum is dated 3 January 2013. I would compare your scores against the charts listed in the original AFI and go from there.

Someone (@vfftsgt)? posted recently that they changed the statement to 365 days in order to keep the AFI in effect. Don't know, but would be hilarious if everything defaulted back to the "original" score chart.

jpeters
07-23-2013, 04:52 PM
Sometimes a proper taping can net you three inches...true story and happened without losing a pound.

Same happened to me! Two different people, two different measurements that varied 4 inches, so if I was close that could have put me over and made me fail my test. Just depends on who is measuring you, even though there is suppose to be a standard, it all depends on who is doing it.

Capt Alfredo
07-23-2013, 05:01 PM
Same happened to me! Two different people, two different measurements that varied 4 inches, so if I was close that could have put me over and made me fail my test. Just depends on who is measuring you, even though there is suppose to be a standard, it all depends on who is doing it.

There are very specific instructions on how to perform the waist measurement, but without fail, the PTLs or FACs don't follow those instructions. In the latest version of the AFI, it even says that the member can "help" the test administrator locate the proper landmark, but I've never seen that happen. Sometimes they screw up to your advantage, but most times they're measuring in the wrong place to your disadvantage. If they're measuring over the bone instead of above it like you're supposed to, they're wrong.

VFFTSGT
07-23-2013, 05:03 PM
Someone (@vfftsgt)? posted recently that they changed the statement to 365 days in order to keep the AFI in effect. Don't know, but would be hilarious if everything defaulted back to the "original" score chart.

Yeah, the publishing AFI was changed after the GM for the PT AFI was published. While 33-360 says GM's are good for a year now, the GM in the PT AFI was published under the old standard and says itself is expired.

imported_StandardsAMust
07-24-2013, 05:23 AM
Yeah, the publishing AFI was changed after the GM for the PT AFI was published. While 33-360 says GM's are good for a year now, the GM in the PT AFI was published under the old standard and says itself is expired.

I would assume, from a legal perspective, that the old score charts are now in effect?

VFFTSGT
07-24-2013, 07:16 AM
I would assume, from a legal perspective, that the old score charts are now in effect?

I am not a lawyer, but if someone could use the old charts to their advantage...I personally think there is a case to be made against the AF. I would recommend consulting ADC if you need to.

If it had to do with writing a unit up during an ORI/UCI - yes, the unit would be written up. But when it comes to these legal matters, who knows how it would play out.

Shaken1976
07-24-2013, 02:11 PM
So I got an LOR that states there was no significant improvement. SERIOUSLY? 3 inches off my waist is NO SIGNIFICANT improvement? I expected the paperwork but the wording seriously pissed me off.

Capt Alfredo
07-24-2013, 03:28 PM
So I got an LOR that states there was no significant improvement. SERIOUSLY? 3 inches off my waist is NO SIGNIFICANT improvement? I expected the paperwork but the wording seriously pissed me off.

Once again, proof the administration of the PT program is broken.

Sergeant eNYgma
07-24-2013, 03:50 PM
So I got an LOR that states there was no significant improvement. SERIOUSLY? 3 inches off my waist is NO SIGNIFICANT improvement? I expected the paperwork but the wording seriously pissed me off.

That's complete bullshit...

technomage1
07-24-2013, 04:09 PM
So I got an LOR that states there was no significant improvement. SERIOUSLY? 3 inches off my waist is NO SIGNIFICANT improvement? I expected the paperwork but the wording seriously pissed me off.

What BS. Get the ADC involoved. Also ask what would be a significant improvement in their eyes in that timeframe.

SomeRandomGuy
07-24-2013, 04:16 PM
What BS. Get the ADC involoved. Also ask what would be a significant improvement in their eyes in that timeframe.

People always say this but how much good does it really do? How many people are actually successful in getting an LOR removed from their PIF (PIFs do not even officially exist anymore do they?) From my limited experience ADC is basically just an editor for your response and hardly provides any useful assistance. ADC is ussually much busier with their case workload and tend to ignore the little things like LOCs and LORs. I would absolutely have them look over my response but anything who thinks they are getting more assistance than that is in for a surprise.

20+Years
07-24-2013, 04:24 PM
Note: there exists a PT & Fitness sub-thread.

Ahhh..put a sock in it.


You get a chance to rebuttal that LOR and I would absolutely include that you made an IMPROVEMENT by reducing the waist measurement 3 inches, and I would include any push-up or runtime that was better. Even if the CC doesn't agree its an improvement, anyone who reads the LOR and rebuttal will know the CC was a dick.

VFFTSGT
07-24-2013, 06:06 PM
So I got an LOR that states there was no significant improvement. SERIOUSLY? 3 inches off my waist is NO SIGNIFICANT improvement? I expected the paperwork but the wording seriously pissed me off.

Make sure you right out a very well thought out response (rebuttal) and include all your progress. Document your previous waist size and current waist size. Document every other improvement too. Take all the allowed time to write out your response. If you thought the the FAC didn't count sit-ups that should have been counted, I would state that as well. Read, edit, read, edit.

Don't write angry. If you want a second set of eyes to review/edit send it to me and I will help you.


People always say this but how much good does it really do? How many people are actually successful in getting an LOR removed from their PIF (PIFs do not even officially exist anymore do they?) From my limited experience ADC is basically just an editor for your response and hardly provides any useful assistance. ADC is ussually much busier with their case workload and tend to ignore the little things like LOCs and LORs. I would absolutely have them look over my response but anything who thinks they are getting more assistance than that is in for a surprise.

Yeah, I use to say talk to ADC too, but I consulted them on something before and lost all faith in them - they were completely wrong on their advice. They are captains and not in civilian practice for a reason I guess.

I will say, the rebuttal is not about getting the LOR removed from a PIF. It's about documenting everything. So, if the time comes you have that documenation to use to make a case for yourself if you need to.

loggie94
07-25-2013, 05:36 AM
Good advice above from VFFTSGT. You have a chance to rebut the LOR--use it. They may let the LOR stand, but your side of the story will be entered in the record and be included in future actions if the road continues to turn south.

Keep it un-emotional and spell out the improvements that you have made...past history, etc.

On a side note -- keep in mind that your CC may be issuing the LOR to stay consistent with squadron policy/wing policy/AFI guidance. As a former CC, I had done this a couple times... Once I received their rebuttal, I exused the rest and had a heart-to-heart chat with the individuals about where they stood wrt to the PT and overall effect on their EPRs/etc.. I was focused on their improvement and assuring them that passing PT tests (right or wrong) make it all a non issue.

Like VFFTSGT, I'd be happy to review your paperwork if you want a seperate set of eyes on it.