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fufu
07-19-2013, 03:11 PM
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/673

Here at Base X:
-AD female goes to club. AD Female has many drinks, talks talking with AD male who also has many drinks. AD male and AD Female go home together alone, many AD witnesses to said fact. AD Male and AD Female have sex. AD Females says rape next day. AD Female requests / granted PCS to base near her baby daddy. AD Male is investigated and found of no wrong doing(rumor is he pass lie detector test, which I'm not sure the AF has).

Great policy....:uncomfortableness:

TSgt"M"
07-19-2013, 03:47 PM
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/673

Here at Base X:
-AD female goes to club. AD Female has many drinks, talks talking with AD male. AD male and AD Female go home together alone, many AD witnesses to said fact. AD Male and AD Female have sex. AD Females says rape next day. AD Female requests / granted PCS to base near her baby daddy. AD Male is investigated and found of no wrong doing(rumor is he pass lie detector test, which I'm not sure the AF has).

Great policy....:uncomfortableness:

AFOSI has polygraph operators.

Shaken1976
07-19-2013, 04:07 PM
I really hate the idea that a woman who has a drink or two can't make a sound decision. Back before I had a kid and was in the party scene...I never made the decision to go home with someone drunk. AND I ALWAYS had a friend with me to make sure I didn't do anything stupid. Seriously...crying rape because you had a few drinks, left the club with someone, and regretted it the next day is WRONG. Now...if the girl is sooo drunk that she is comatose and some guy takes advantage of that situation...then he is wrong and that is rape.

jpeters
07-19-2013, 04:31 PM
I really hate the idea that a woman who has a drink or two can't make a sound decision. Back before I had a kid and was in the party scene...I never made the decision to go home with someone drunk. AND I ALWAYS had a friend with me to make sure I didn't do anything stupid. Seriously...crying rape because you had a few drinks, left the club with someone, and regretted it the next day is WRONG. Now...if the girl is sooo drunk that she is comatose and some guy takes advantage of that situation...then he is wrong and that is rape.

I agree. When I lived in the dorms there was a party one weekend and there was a situation where guy and girl were talking and flirting before they even started drinking. Later on they went home together, stuff happened. About a week later the girl was getting so much grief for doing something with said guy from her friends that she said she was too drunk and he took advantage of her. After months of investigation and taking a stripe from the guy they found out that it was just her crying wolf. What happened to her…LOR, but they didn’t give the guy back his stripe or apologize for assuming he was guilty until they proved he was innocent.

SomeRandomGuy
07-19-2013, 04:34 PM
I really hate the idea that a woman who has a drink or two can't make a sound decision. Back before I had a kid and was in the party scene...I never made the decision to go home with someone drunk. AND I ALWAYS had a friend with me to make sure I didn't do anything stupid. Seriously...crying rape because you had a few drinks, left the club with someone, and regretted it the next day is WRONG. Now...if the girl is sooo drunk that she is comatose and some guy takes advantage of that situation...then he is wrong and that is rape.

What about the girl who is constantly drunk and going home with guys? Back in my party days there was a club very close to privatized housing (stumbling distance) and all the military people would go there and get hammered. There was one girl I always saw there and she always left with someone at last call. The last hour of the night was like a contest who could be the last guy she remembered so she would sleep with them. One night I am sitting at the bar and she sits down next to me. I am sitting there talking to her and someone else I know comes up and tells me to stay away because she is kind of a whore. She turns and says, "I am not a whore" to which he responds by pulling out his phone with naked pictures of her from the week before where she went home with a bunch of his friends. The thing is though she does this pretty much every single night. So is it rape if I am a guy and I buy her a drink in hopes that she will let her guard down and sleep with me? Lucky for the guys who took her home she never cried rape but I always wonder how she decides which nights were rape and which ones she enjoyed? It always seemed to me that her goal was to get laid every time she got drunk.

Shaken1976
07-19-2013, 04:46 PM
What about the girl who is constantly drunk and going home with guys? Back in my party days there was a club very close to privatized housing (stumbling distance) and all the military people would go there and get hammered. There was one girl I always saw there and she always left with someone at last call. The last hour of the night was like a contest who could be the last guy she remembered so she would sleep with them. One night I am sitting at the bar and she sits down next to me. I am sitting there talking to her and someone else I know comes up and tells me to stay away because she is kind of a whore. She turns and says, "I am not a whore" to which he responds by pulling out his phone with naked pictures of her from the week before where she went home with a bunch of his friends. The thing is though she does this pretty much every single night. So is it rape if I am a guy and I buy her a drink in hopes that she will let her guard down and sleep with me? Lucky for the guys who took her home she never cried rape but I always wonder how she decides which nights were rape and which ones she enjoyed? It always seemed to me that her goal was to get laid every time she got drunk.

Thats crazy and obviously she goes with the intention of drinking too much and getting laid. If I were a guy I would stay the hell away from that just on the very probable chance she has some flesh eating STI.

I was never the type to sleep around...but if you got enough drinks in me I was super friendly...but still never took it to the point of any type of sex. I managed to have a good time without sex involved.

Pullinteeth
07-19-2013, 05:16 PM
So...if my wife and I want to PCS, I should get hammered, have some sex, call the cops in the morning and say she raped me, get orders, PCS, recant, wife gets joint spouse....?

imnohero
07-19-2013, 09:35 PM
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/673

Here at Base X:
-AD female goes to club. AD Female has many drinks, talks talking with AD male who also has many drinks. AD male and AD Female go home together alone, many AD witnesses to said fact. AD Male and AD Female have sex. AD Females says rape next day. AD Female requests / granted PCS to base near her baby daddy. AD Male is investigated and found of no wrong doing(rumor is he pass lie detector test, which I'm not sure the AF has).

Great policy....:uncomfortableness:

First, did this actually happen, or is it hypothetical?

2nd: There are plenty of chiefs, former chiefs, ex-1st shirts, superintendent, etc. on this forum...have any of you every actually dealt with a false SA report? I didn't, in my entire 21 year career. nor did I even hear about one occurring in any of my units or units at my bases. There were ACTUAL sexual assaults. There were accusations that were "unsubstantiated" legally so no one got charged. But no false reports. Just curious, if anyone actually ever encountered one personally, 1st hand knowledge.

imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting
07-19-2013, 09:56 PM
Kinda feels like people are getting a little too freaked out.

Eastwood
07-21-2013, 01:20 PM
I’ve seen this happen a few times. Watched a good SMSgt get retired because of perception and circumstances. At Osan a Sra was a little wasted and making a fool of herself at the Golden gate. He was on town patrol and since it was closing he took her back to her hooch. He dropped her off and came back to his room. His Pissmate and 2 others saw him and testified that he didn’t spend the night . She cried rape and the sympathy vote went to her. In the end it came down to reputation. She was a squeaky clean MSG/CCC enlisted aide, he was a problematic SNCO who made waves. I honestly believe that he didn’t touch her but was asked to retire anyway. This is becoming so frequent now that its like the Boy who cried wolf. Soon, no one will listen and the real case will be ignored!

Eastwood
07-21-2013, 01:29 PM
First, did this actually happen, or is it hypothetical?

2nd: There are plenty of chiefs, former chiefs, ex-1st shirts, superintendent, etc. on this forum...have any of you every actually dealt with a false SA report? I didn't, in my entire 21 year career. nor did I even hear about one occurring in any of my units or units at my bases. There were ACTUAL sexual assaults. There were accusations that were "unsubstantiated" legally so no one got charged. But no false reports. Just curious, if anyone actually ever encountered one personally, 1st hand knowledge.

I did, but we were never able to prove it. I’ve PCS'd Adulterer’s, Domestics, Aids patients etc. Had a few actual assaults but it was 2 in a 20 year period. Now its almost as if the AF is teaching women to cry rape at the slightest rejection, or worse, to cover for bad or adulterous behavior. I honestly believe that the real cases will be lost in all the false and baseless claims. Brief Example below.

I’ve seen this happen a few times. Watched a good SMSgt get retired because of perception and circumstances. At Osan a Sra was a little wasted and making a fool of herself at the Golden gate. He was on town patrol and since it was closing he took her back to her hooch. He dropped her off and came back to his room. His Pissmate and 2 others saw him and testified that he didn’t spend the night . She cried rape and the sympathy vote went to her. In the end it came down to reputation. She was a squeaky clean MSG/CCC enlisted aide, he was a problematic SNCO who made waves. I honestly believe that he didn’t touch her but was asked to retire anyway. This is becoming so frequent now that its like the Boy who cried wolf. Soon, no one will listen and the real case will be ignored!

fufu
07-23-2013, 03:55 AM
First, did this actually happen, or is it hypothetical?

2nd: There are plenty of chiefs, former chiefs, ex-1st shirts, superintendent, etc. on this forum...have any of you every actually dealt with a false SA report? I didn't, in my entire 21 year career. nor did I even hear about one occurring in any of my units or units at my bases. There were ACTUAL sexual assaults. There were accusations that were "unsubstantiated" legally so no one got charged. But no false reports. Just curious, if anyone actually ever encountered one personally, 1st hand knowledge.

.This did happen

loggie94
07-23-2013, 06:45 AM
First, did this actually happen, or is it hypothetical?

2nd: There are plenty of chiefs, former chiefs, ex-1st shirts, superintendent, etc. on this forum...have any of you every actually dealt with a false SA report? I didn't, in my entire 21 year career. nor did I even hear about one occurring in any of my units or units at my bases. There were ACTUAL sexual assaults. There were accusations that were "unsubstantiated" legally so no one got charged. But no false reports. Just curious, if anyone actually ever encountered one personally, 1st hand knowledge.

I dealt with one false reporting situation -- Had it happen when I was a flight commander.

One of my troops and the spouse of a tdy troop (another unit) partied all night together...ended up in bed together. Next day, she felt guilty and as a way of expaining it to her hubby - stated she said no hanky-panky and only wanted to sleep next to him...and then woke up with him on top of her. Her written statement had about as much detail as I've given so far. His--4 pages long, read like a penthouse letter, including detailed quotes of her screaming for more, etc... When confronted with his version of the story, she recanted quickly and dropped the charges. Dude sweated like no tomorrow for a few weeks until it was resolved. I don't remember if he got an LOR, etc. for adultry, but at least the big "R" charges were dropped.


Does it happen a lot -- hard to tell. Frankly, hard to believe any of the statistics on the subject anymore.

mikezulu1
07-23-2013, 11:14 AM
And I'm sure the female was promtly charged with making false official statements for lying to police right?

Bumble78
07-23-2013, 05:45 PM
And I'm sure the female was promtly charged with making false official statements for lying to police right?
That only happens if PT is involved.

loggie94
07-24-2013, 05:18 AM
To be honest, she belonged to another unit and I don't remember what happened with her. All of the accusations were purely within the military system, though, if I remember right. I think the initial statements were made to the First Sergeants...OSI may have been involved, but it was a while ago and my memory isn't what it used to be...

I do recall she had some explaining to do to her husband, since I think they pulled him back from his TDY/deployment when she first cried wolf.

imported_oih82w8
07-24-2013, 05:48 PM
Silly me...I thought that SA stood for "substance abuse". :pat:

SomeRandomGuy
07-24-2013, 05:50 PM
Silly me...I thought that SA stood for "substance abuse". :pat:

The first time I saw this I was thinking San Antonio. Then again these days San Antonio is pretty much synonymous with Sexual Assualt.

Pullinteeth
08-16-2013, 07:18 PM
Now the accused can be involuntarily PCS'd.... Seriously? They haven't been convicted of shit yet can be punished....

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130815/NEWS05/308150018/DoD-allow-transfer-reassignment-troops-accused-sexual-assault

:frusty

imnohero
08-16-2013, 07:24 PM
<sigh> what a mess.

20+Years
08-16-2013, 07:28 PM
Well, I can say that some of the thing in that article are good. Fast tracking the accusals to a one-star, appointing an attorney immediately. Maybe it will help victims feel more like reporting. It also might take away a want to false report knowing how serious it will get so fast. I'll have to think on this one.