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View Full Version : We all know military medical can suck at times...



Shaken1976
07-18-2013, 02:14 PM
But I have seen a trend that seems kind of scary. I have been in 17 years and I have known 6 people with brain tumors in the military. All of them were pretty bad off by the time they were discovered. One had been going to the doc for months complaining of headaches, localized weakness, dizzyness, and numbness.

Another had a complete personality change...night and day difference. He also was complaining of double vision and headaches.

Not sure of the others stories. But I haven't even know ONE person on the civilian side to have a brain tumor in the last 17 years with the exception of my father. How is that sooo many have them in the military? And these six are just the ones I know...I have heard of several others.


Am I the only one? Or is there something that makes it more prevalant in the military?

Pullinteeth
07-18-2013, 02:25 PM
Not sure if your thread is about the seeming trend of more tumors in the mil or the fact that mil med can't seem to catch them? If it is the latter, what do you expect? They ask you your height, weight, blood pressure, and only see you if they ABSOLUTELY have to. If they do see you what do they do? Give you a gigantic bottle of vitamin M and tell you that should cure all of your problems.

poindexter
07-18-2013, 02:36 PM
But I have seen a trend that seems kind of scary. I have been in 17 years and I have known 6 people with brain tumors in the military. All of them were pretty bad off by the time they were discovered. One had been going to the doc for months complaining of headaches, localized weakness, dizzyness, and numbness.

Another had a complete personality change...night and day difference. He also was complaining of double vision and headaches.

Not sure of the others stories. But I haven't even know ONE person on the civilian side to have a brain tumor in the last 17 years with the exception of my father. How is that sooo many have them in the military? And these six are just the ones I know...I have heard of several others.


Am I the only one? Or is there something that makes it more prevalant in the military?


We had a guy at my first base that was diagnosed with a brain tumor, went to the hospital numerous times they finally threatened to charge him with malingering. He finally got diagnosed from off base and then he died a couple of weeks later. It was really sad.

Shaken1976
07-18-2013, 02:44 PM
We had a guy at my first base that was diagnosed with a brain tumor, went to the hospital numerous times they finally threatened to charge him with malingering. He finally got diagnosed from off base and then he died a couple of weeks later. It was really sad.

I heard a similar story here...but don't actually know the guy.

TWilliams
07-18-2013, 02:59 PM
We had a guy at my first base that was diagnosed with a brain tumor, went to the hospital numerous times they finally threatened to charge him with malingering. He finally got diagnosed from off base and then he died a couple of weeks later. It was really sad.

That's messed up. While I like being in the military, it is stories like these that make me angry and disappointed in the service.

commguy228
07-18-2013, 03:05 PM
I'm getting an MRI in two weeks to check for a brain tumor. They decided this on Monday as a possibility to my issues. I really hate the fact that I have to wait two weeks to get the MRI then probably have to wait a few days for the results.

fufu
07-18-2013, 03:12 PM
I started having chest pains back in the fall. I made an appt and went to the dr on base. They ran an EKG and found nothing. Thats it, let me go and never even looked into the problem further. I had them off and on for a few months and then they stopped. Wierd.

Shaken1976
07-18-2013, 03:16 PM
I'm getting an MRI in two weeks to check for a brain tumor. They decided this on Monday as a possibility to my issues. I really hate the fact that I have to wait two weeks to get the MRI then probably have to wait a few days for the results.

Thats crazy. I was scheduled for my shoulder MRI within 4 days.

Rusty Jones
07-18-2013, 03:50 PM
I remember when I was still in recruit training at RTC Great Lakes. A day or two after I got that penicillin shot in my ass, I started having flu-like symptoms; and went to sick call.

Right then and there, I knew that military medical was effed up. The Corpsmen there were talking to me like I was there to try to get out of something; even making threats about what they're going to do if nothing is wrong with me. As soon as they got my temperature and got a 104 fever, their tune changed quick. I actually tried to report what was going on, but I was easily shut down. A recruit's words don't matter.

Out in the Fleet, it's normally the same thing - you may not get treated like shit, but they assume that you're only there because you want an an SIQ chit. It didn't really happen to me, because as a PN/PS, I was in the same division as the HM's... but when I was in sick bay doing my DCPO maintenance, I saw how they treated people. Hand them some Motrin (which, apparently, cures every ailment known to man) and an ice pack, and send them on their way!

VFFTSGT
07-18-2013, 03:57 PM
But I have seen a trend that seems kind of scary. I have been in 17 years and I have known 6 people with brain tumors in the military. All of them were pretty bad off by the time they were discovered. One had been going to the doc for months complaining of headaches, localized weakness, dizzyness, and numbness.

Another had a complete personality change...night and day difference. He also was complaining of double vision and headaches.

Not sure of the others stories. But I haven't even know ONE person on the civilian side to have a brain tumor in the last 17 years with the exception of my father. How is that sooo many have them in the military? And these six are just the ones I know...I have heard of several others.


Am I the only one? Or is there something that makes it more prevalant in the military?

If it makes you feel better...

I have one too. It was discovered incidentally during a CT scan after a head injury. It's benign, but it is there and is considered stable at this point (have recurring MRI's now).

However, I did have the same type of tumor removed from my back a few years ago after I noticed numbness in my arm and the protrusion of the tumor from the surface of the skin.

On the other note, military medical does suck most of the time. I have posted on here before about my issue and have since had another and another. Just the other day, I was told nothing was wrong with me by a PCM. I went to the ER and was properly diagnosed and given appropriate medicine.

Shaken1976
07-18-2013, 03:59 PM
If it makes you feel better...

I have one too. It was discovered incidentally during a CT scan after a head injury. It's benign, but it is there and is considered stable at this point (have recurring MRI's now).

However, I did have the same type of tumor removed from my back a few years ago after I noticed numbness in my arm and the protrusion of the tumor from the surface of the skin.

On the other note, military medical does suck most of the time. I have posted on here before about my issue and have since had another and another. Just the other day, I was told nothing was wrong with me by a PCM. I went to the ER and was probably diagnosed and given appropriate medicine.

Did you know BT has several brain tumors? Crazy. I just found out.

VFFTSGT
07-18-2013, 04:04 PM
Did you know BT has several brain tumors? Crazy. I just found out.

Oh wow, that is crazy!

Definately sounds like the military would be a good case study into tumors.


I started having chest pains back in the fall. I made an appt and went to the dr on base. They ran an EKG and found nothing. Thats it, let me go and never even looked into the problem further. I had them off and on for a few months and then they stopped. Wierd.

Ever had issues with reflux? Just something to consider...that's how I was diagnosed with reflux; started with chest pains. Was in a foreign country at the time; got sent to their hospital - that was interesting. But between the base hospital and off base hospital they did do a complete work up. EKG, Chest CT, labs, etc. I was a guinea pig for a while but they did everything (or seemingly everything) to eliminate cardiopulmonary issues. It was probably the best experience I have had with Air Force medical as far as diagnostic testing. This was 10 years ago too though.

45ACP
07-18-2013, 04:05 PM
I had been getting Migraines and almost passing out from them for over five years. Funny thing it all started to happen after returning from my deployment. I think the vaccine cocktail I got jacked me up, but the docs here can’t say how I got so jacked up.

I almost lost my stripe because my leadership was trying to get me for malingering. If they would have just talked to me I would have signed forms and let my commander see my full records and just not assume I was a POS.

Well last year I was finally diagnosed with Chronic Daily Migraine and partial seizures. My commander didn’t want to give the doc a year to treat me and put me in for a Med board. I went up for a full MEB/PEB lasted 9 months and AFPC returned me to duty. I am now coded C2 until I retire, but still pretty messed up. My saving grace is I can pass my PT test with a 92,that seemed to be the only thing the board was concerned with.

I honestly feel like I am a stroke waiting to happen, maybe they just want us to die…and save money for Big Blue. In my opinion the DOD doesn’t give a rat’s ass about us!

VFFTSGT
07-18-2013, 04:09 PM
My saving grace is I can pass my PT test with a 92,that seemed to be the only thing the board was concerned with.

This is so sad.


In my opinion the DOD doesn’t give a rat’s ass about us!

They don't and my opinion of the VA is pending but based on research they don't either.

I want to become the Al Sharpton of Military Medical when I get out...except these would be real issues.

CJSmith
07-18-2013, 04:27 PM
They call it medical practice for a reason. And civilian side is just as bad, the difference is its the insurance companies making your decisions for you.

SomeRandomGuy
07-18-2013, 04:28 PM
Interesting that the Military medical system is the best possible U.S. example of a single payer medical system and this is exactly what the POTUS and other liberals would like to institute.

VFFTSGT
07-18-2013, 04:35 PM
They call it medical practice for a reason. And civilian side is just as bad, the difference is its the insurance companies making your decisions for you.

I have had bad luck with a couple civilian providers, but I personally thought it was because I was a Tricare patient and the Doctor was trying to shuffle as many of us through as possible to get the most amount of money. Not taking the time needed to really analyze a case.

But overall, I have had better luck with civilian providers than military.

Ever since my first hiccup with civilian providers, I try to find reviews and information online about who I see. With the new Tricare West contractor (UHC Military) you can see any in-network provider without having the referral changed now - this is one good thing about this new contractor.

Here is a good write-up on military malpractice...
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/05/service-members-have-little-recourse-against-malpractice

Bunch
07-18-2013, 06:22 PM
My brother is alive today thanks to military medicine.

He is in the Coast Guard and as part of his annual health assesment he needs to do a hearing test. When he got it in 2008 the results on his left ear was way under normal hearing levels and way off from what it was the year before. A week later got an appointment with ENT Dr on base who order further studies and detected a tumor in his brain. They were so surprised that my brother didn't had any symptoms besides what my brother called minor hearing loss, no headchaes, no fainting, blurred vision and many of the other things associated with that, Dr's said my brother was lucky to be alive.

Due to the size and location of the tumor he underwent 3 brain surgeries at Walter Reed Hospital. He was under the care of military dr and nurses the entire time. We never had a complaint they did such an amazing job with my brother and I forever will be grateful to those men and women that save my brother's life. After that they allowed him to return back to duty and he is working happily and be retiring in a few years.

VFFTSGT
07-18-2013, 06:35 PM
My brother is alive today thanks to military medicine.

He is in the Coast Guard and as part of his annual health assesment he needs to do a hearing test. When he got it in 2008 the results on his left ear was way under normal hearing levels and way off from what it was the year before. A week later got an appointment with ENT Dr on base who order further studies and detected a tumor in his brain. They were so surprised that my brother didn't had any symptoms besides what my brother called minor hearing loss, no headchaes, no fainting, blurred vision and many of the other things associated with that, Dr's said my brother was lucky to be alive.

Due to the size and location of the tumor he underwent 3 brain surgeries at Walter Reed Hospital. He was under the care of military dr and nurses the entire time. We never had a complaint they did such an amazing job with my brother and I forever will be grateful to those men and women that save my brother's life. After that they allowed him to return back to duty and he is working happily and be retiring in a few years.

Not everyone in the military is subjected to annual hearing tests. Actually, quite a few are not.

Had this been another person, who say went for headaches...they would have gotten motrin and sent on their way. Since headaches are so 'subjective' no PCM would take the symptom seriously. (I've been to military ER before for an atypical [abnormal] headache before - I was essentially laughed out of the ER) Years later they would have died from being misdiagnosed.

It's like going in for hip pain or knee pain...they assume you are just a malinger because there is nothing there for them to see, hear, feel, or detect in a scan (if you are lucky enough to get a scan) - so there must not be anything wrong with you. My case, "significant" tear of cartilage went misdiagnosed for 2 years. Several X-rays and MRI's. No MRI detected damage to cartilage. After reviewing my medical records, I found the original X-ray detected an abnormality that pointed to the problem but the abnormality was deemed insignificant and "likely unrelated" by the radiologist.

Your brother is lucky his job required annual hearing tests.

I didn't even get a hearing test at my separation "physical." They make sure you get one coming in...but say screw you on the way out. They don't want anything extra that could document service connection.

imported_AFKILO7
07-18-2013, 11:47 PM
We had a guy at my first base that was diagnosed with a brain tumor, went to the hospital numerous times they finally threatened to charge him with malingering. He finally got diagnosed from off base and then he died a couple of weeks later. It was really sad.
Our Trainer (MWD) at my last base got married to a girl from back home. She got to Japan and was having horrible back pain. Over the course of a few months she made multiple trips to the UCC complaining of back pain and no tests were done, just some meds. Finally the medical hobby shop decided to do a scan. She had STAGE 4 Lymphoma Cancer! They were immediately sent to Tripler...she is completely cured now and they just had their second child. Damn miracle.

I'm getting an MRI in two weeks to check for a brain tumor. They decided this on Monday as a possibility to my issues. I really hate the fact that I have to wait two weeks to get the MRI then probably have to wait a few days for the results.
I'm stationed at Lackland, I had to wait over a month for a MRI for my knee. It probably depends on the size of the base and amount of patients. I also found out that the O-6 in charge here mandated no military can go off base for a MRI...have to wait. That was some bullshit...

Thats crazy. I was scheduled for my shoulder MRI within 4 days.
What was the outcome?

I think hospitals can order CT scans, but Tricare has to approve MRIs.
See above.


I just had surgery today to repair my meniscus. My body is really sensitive to anesthesia so waking up was a long process. I feel that I received a reasonable medical care, everyone I encountered today was professional and really nice.

poindexter
07-19-2013, 12:26 AM
When I needed an MRI, I had to go off base but the referral process was quick, I didn't have to wait too long to go off base to get it done. In my 16+ years, I have had care on both sides of the spectrum, at my last base was probably the WORST care that I have ever received; misdiagnosed broken foot, acid reflux and chest pains that ended up being a gallbladder blockage (emergency surgery rocks). Right now, at the base, my PCM is attentive even my off base docs are awesome. So right now, i can't complain.

UH1FE
07-19-2013, 01:16 AM
Finance is better at getting people's pay right than military doctor's are at doing there job right. I guess that's what you get from C average students. I once had a conversation with a good military surgeon and he informed me that flt med was the all other when it comes to doc specialty. If you didn't get something like surgeon and all the specialty's were filled you went to flt med. He told my wife to transfer to family practice and get out of flt med, then looks at me and says your screwed sorry. When it comes to flt med yes you can get seen that day but its all quantity and zero quality.

imported_AFKILO7
07-19-2013, 01:19 AM
Some base clinics have no MRI capability, some use trailers from big cities
Sporadically. Pretty sure referral office told me tricare has the approve MRI request.

Sorry I wasn't trying to discredit your statement, or insinuate that you were wrong. I was merely stating what goes on here at Lackland. FWIW I spoke with Tricare and they said they would approve it, all I had to do was get my PCM to put in the referral, however, it would never be approved by the O-6 and would never make it to Tricare.

My meds are really strong, I just wish they wouldn't make me feel all weird and shit.

Shaken1976
07-19-2013, 02:40 AM
Sorry I wasn't trying to discredit your statement, or insinuate that you were wrong. I was merely stating what goes on here at Lackland. FWIW I spoke with Tricare and they said they would approve it, all I had to do was get my PCM to put in the referral, however, it would never be approved by the O-6 and would never make it to Tricare.

My meds are really strong, I just wish they wouldn't make me feel all weird and shit.

Also at Lackland. I had my MRI last week. Apparently I have two small benign tumors, a few lesions, and a nice tear. Ortho next week.

106PADDOCK
07-19-2013, 03:35 AM
Hello,
I worked in the Emergency Department of a "Ivy League" Medical and encountered cases of missed brain tumors being treated as migranes, leaking Cerebral spinal fluid leaks as runny noses, colon cancer as hemorrhoids. Medicine isn't flawless, nothing is foolproof and with the constaints placed on military providers I can see a greater risk for errors.The military is a false cohort of patients since they are by design a young healthy group coupled with the hardcharging mindset, limited resources mission creep all factor into this.If I CT scanned every headache my competency would be suspect. A good history and physical exam are key, the differential diagnosis for headache is pretty broad. Military medicine isn't any worse or better than civilian medicine as a nAF brat and ARmy medic for 25 years and a PA for 25 years I can say that sadly "shit happens" and that doesn't equal malpractice just reality.I know this doesn't or won't make things better but things must be put in the proper perspective. I can say that I've not seen any civilian doctors face criminal charges for their screw ups like the military physicians have on occasion.

Bunch
07-19-2013, 05:16 AM
Finance is better at getting people's pay right than military doctor's are at doing there job right. I guess that's what you get from C average students. I once had a conversation with a good military surgeon and he informed me that flt med was the all other when it comes to doc specialty. If you didn't get something like surgeon and all the specialty's were filled you went to flt med. He told my wife to transfer to family practice and get out of flt med, then looks at me and says your screwed sorry. When it comes to flt med yes you can get seen that day but its all quantity and zero quality.

The biggest myth out there is that we recruit C average students. Just not true...scholarship students need to maintain a 3.0 but many of them graduate above that. Physicians that come through fully qualified process go through extensive interviews and a selection board process. But the majority come through scholarship.

garhkal
07-19-2013, 05:34 AM
Not sure if your thread is about the seeming trend of more tumors in the mil or the fact that mil med can't seem to catch them? If it is the latter, what do you expect? They ask you your height, weight, blood pressure, and only see you if they ABSOLUTELY have to. If they do see you what do they do? Give you a gigantic bottle of vitamin M and tell you that should cure all of your problems.

Exactly.. Just like with me and my issues of Sciatica, it had to take me having to call out the civilian ambulance to my house, before i finally got the MRI i needed, due to me locking up. All the prior instances all Mil medical did was give me some flexerol, motrin and between 3 days and a week of light duty. Even WITH me asking several times to get an MRI done they kept saying "sorry, we just don't see the need, so will not refer you for one".


That's messed up. While I like being in the military, it is stories like these that make me angry and disappointed in the service.

Especially when due to the laws being the way they are (FERES) we can't sue them for their negligence.


Hand them some Motrin (which, apparently, cures every ailment known to man) and an ice pack, and send them on their way!

I heard of one guy who they did that 4 days in a row to due to back issues.. on the morning of the 5th day, he could not move (His back locked up!).. His father, grandfather and both brother's also shared the same issue, and all of them got diagnosed by civilian doctors with what was wrong (was never told), but the mil docs?? Could not care less it seemed.


They call it medical practice for a reason. And civilian side is just as bad, the difference is its the insurance companies making your decisions for you.

But at least on the civilian side, you can sue their butt when they mess up.


I learned late in af career to research
And walk in and tell my dr what they
Were gonna do for me.

I wish it was that simple.. Even WITH me telling them i had a sciatic issue and i need an MRI to find out why, mil medical did squat.. Till it could no longer be ignored.

Chief_KO
07-19-2013, 11:56 AM
1. Disband the medical group as an organization under the respective wing. The medical community should be like the ADC...not part of the chain of command. They exist to provide medical care to the military community, not bow to pressures from the wing. MDG should report directly to the AF Surgeon General.
2. Revamp the MDG budgetary process. Each appointment is a separate "bill" to be paid, hence why you need to make separate appointments.
3. Does each facility need the latest and greatest medical widget every other fiscal year?? Seems like every year there is a new x-ray machine, new this, new that.
4. Close flight medicine as a separate clinic.

RetC141BFCC
07-19-2013, 01:44 PM
Ok my two cents worth. Stationed at Okinawan in the early 80s. Three days in a row go to sick call coughing up that green flem. Just feeling like shit they give me cough medicine aspirin back to work I go. Third day working swing shift start coughing lean out of the expeditor truck and start puking my guts out. The SSgt in charge says” that it take him to the Navy Hospital.” Guess what pneumonia.
The worst was when I got ready to retire complained about a hole in my nose. PA blew me off. Retired went to the VAMC for my gulf war physical guess what active skin cancer took 4 operations finally cancer free. For 5 years now. After 3rd operation VA out sourced it to a MOHS specialist. Then plastics surgery disfigured me to the tune of a VA rating of 30 percent on my face that’s after plastic surgery.
I now get all my health care from the VA and I have a primary care Doctor who actually seems to care about me. Had back problems for years AF here have some Morton. Had a MRI done 3 bad disks. AF health care for me sucked the big one. Seems all they care about was getting you back to work.

VFFTSGT
07-19-2013, 03:45 PM
Military medicine isn't any worse or better than civilian medicine as a nAF brat and ARmy medic for 25 years and a PA for 25 years I can say that sadly "shit happens" and that doesn't equal malpractice just reality.

This is a crappy attitude to have as a medical professional.

106PADDOCK
07-19-2013, 05:24 PM
This is a crappy attitude to have as a medical professional.

No, I am a realist and make note that I clearly stated "sadly". I know of very good medical providers who had encountered bad outcomes in spite of doing "the right things" which doesn't me malpractice, neglect of lack of skills or caring. I have zero tolerance for noncaring, incompetence or lazy providers since it's wrong and their behavior splashes back on all of us.Shit does happen.

VFFTSGT
07-19-2013, 06:25 PM
No, I am a realist and make note that I clearly stated "sadly". I know of very good medical providers who had encountered bad outcomes in spite of doing "the right things" which doesn't me malpractice, neglect of lack of skills or caring. I have zero tolerance for noncaring, incompetence or lazy providers since it's wrong and their behavior splashes back on all of us.Shit does happen.

Maybe the "right things," aren't the right things... Maybe every headache should be scanned; Tricare doesn't pay that much so it really doesn't cost that much and if the military facility had its own equipment then it wouldn't cost anything except the cost to buy and maintain the equipment. We can afford jets that cost billions of dollars and cannot fly so... Maybe we should get real physicals every year. Maybe radiologist should not 'guess' that noted issues likely aren't the cause of pain therefore causing the PCM to dismiss the problem.

Sh!t happens was probably the attitude back in the day when it was common place to leave sponges in patients from surgery.

Granted it's anecdotal, but it seems to be a recurring trend among people I talk to. I personally have encounter more bad medical professionals in the military than the civilian world. The bad ones I have encountered seem to not care about their patients and/or are dismissive to cases and do not listen to what the patient says. They listened to what the med tech says the patient said, which almost never translates to what the patient actually said.

Just the other day, I think this was the cause of my misdiagnosis (PCM said nothing was wrong with me) that resulted in me going to the ER (where I was properly diagnosed and treated) after the fact - the PCM was too wrapped up on what the med tech said I said rather than what I was saying. The two didn't add up because the med tech turned part of my answer to a question into a phrase that I did not say, so I think the PCM thought I was making sh!t up.

Shaken1976
07-19-2013, 06:43 PM
Maybe the "right things," aren't the right things... Maybe every Maybe the "right things," aren't the right things... Maybe every headache should be scanned; Tricare doesn't pay that much so it really doesn't cost that much and if the military facility had its own equipment then it wouldn't cost anything except the cost to buy and maintain the equipment. We can afford jets that cost billions of dollars and cannot fly so... Maybe we should get real physicals every year. Maybe radiologist should not 'guess' that noted issues likely aren't the cause of pain therefore causing the PCM to dismiss the problem.

Sh!t happens was probably the attitude back in the day when it was common place to leave sponges in patients from surgery.

Granted it's anecdotal, but it seems to be a recurring trend among people I talk to. I personally have encounter more bad medical professionals in the military than the civilian world. The bad ones I have encountered seem to not care about their patients and/or are dismissive to cases and do not listen to what the patient says. They listened to what the med tech says the patient said, which almost never translates to what the patient actually said.

Just the other day, I think this was the cause of my misdiagnosis (PCM said nothing was wrong with me) that resulted in me going to the ER (where I was properly diagnosed and treated) after the fact - the PCM was too wrapped up on what the med tech said I said rather than what I was saying. The two didn't add up because the med tech turned part of my answer to a question into a phrase that I did not say, so I think the PCM thought I was making sh!t up.


I have had some very good PCMs and some very bad ones. Doesn't seem to be a lot in between. Just had to get my kiddo switched. Her pedi told us that she had several indicators of NF1 but didn't answer any questions about it. We are still awaiting an official diagnosis on that. The whole process was messed up.

When my kiddo was at my last base we had a fantastic pedi. She listened to concerns, talked to my kid, and explained everything.

When I was at Barksdale long ago...I was super sick. Sore throat, high fevers, achy, tired, and all. PCM said allergies. Went on leave...woke up two days later and was so lethargic I could barely move. Went to the ER...Mono. 45 days of con leave later I was a lot better. I have never been that sick in my life.

I really wish I could interview PCMs and make my own decision.

I had a PCM who handed out quarters if you went in because you were sneezing and needed allergy meds. Yet another one was fever of 101 or higher, puking, shits, and that was about it. I went in with an allergic reaction...she shot me up with benadryl and something else and sent me back to work. I was falling asleep on the floor. Boss sent me home.

TWilliams
07-19-2013, 06:56 PM
I have had some very good PCMs and some very bad ones. Doesn't seem to be a lot in between. Just had to get my kiddo switched. Her pedi told us that she had several indicators of NF1 but didn't answer any questions about it. We are still awaiting an official diagnosis on that. The whole process was messed up.

When my kiddo was at my last base we had a fantastic pedi. She listened to concerns, talked to my kid, and explained everything.

When I was at Barksdale long ago...I was super sick. Sore throat, high fevers, achy, tired, and all. PCM said allergies. Went on leave...woke up two days later and was so lethargic I could barely move. Went to the ER...Mono. 45 days of con leave later I was a lot better. I have never been that sick in my life.

I really wish I could interview PCMs and make my own decision.

I had a PCM who handed out quarters if you went in because you were sneezing and needed allergy meds. Yet another one was fever of 101 or higher, puking, shits, and that was about it. I went in with an allergic reaction...she shot me up with benadryl and something else and sent me back to work. I was falling asleep on the floor. Boss sent me home.

I think a lot of the docs expect supervisors to take care of giving 24 hr quarters so they don't bother with it. Others may just be de-sensitized to illness to care. I went in once for throwing up and it turned out to be food poisoning. The doc just told me to drink clear fluids and sent me back to work. My boss was nice enough to let me go home since no one in the office wanted to experience the chain reaction of sympathetic pukers.

VFFTSGT
07-19-2013, 07:30 PM
I think a lot of the docs expect supervisors to take care of giving 24 hr quarters so they don't bother with it. Others may just be de-sensitized to illness to care. I went in once for throwing up and it turned out to be food poisoning. The doc just told me to drink clear fluids and sent me back to work. My boss was nice enough to let me go home since no one in the office wanted to experience the chain reaction of sympathetic pukers.

You know, after going through this VA deal, learning about the process, and reading a lot about it and problems others have had...it's actually a VERY BAD IDEA to not go to the doctor if something is wrong with you. Everything needs to be documented. If you just take the 24 hours and nothing is documented then you don't have an established history that might point to recurring/chronic issues...especially years later when you developed some major issue that you try to get noted as service connected and what seemed small 10, 20 years ago is now significant in establishing service connection.

Same thing for the bases that let you get certain [OTC] medications from the pharmacy without seeing a PCM. Good idea and in practice it seems to work well, but again, you end up lacking the documentation you might need later when dealing with the VA.

OtisRNeedleman
07-19-2013, 08:34 PM
I have had bad luck with a couple civilian providers, but I personally thought it was because I was a Tricare patient and the Doctor was trying to shuffle as many of us through as possible to get the most amount of money. Not taking the time needed to really analyze a case.

But overall, I have had better luck with civilian providers than military.

Ever since my first hiccup with civilian providers, I try to find reviews and information online about who I see. With the new Tricare West contractor (UHC Military) you can see any in-network provider without having the referral changed now - this is one good thing about this new contractor.

Here is a good write-up on military malpractice...
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/05/service-members-have-little-recourse-against-malpractice


When TriWest had the Tricare contract you could use the referral without changes to see any network provider, too. I know.

Must admit I have never felt less than a first-class patient with any doctor who took Tricare. And far as I know every doctor who has worked on me has done a first-class job. I'm alive to post this; if the cardio sugeon had been dogging it last year maybe I wouldn't be, know what I mean?

106PADDOCK
07-19-2013, 08:42 PM
Maybe the "right things," aren't the right things... Maybe every headache should be scanned; Tricare doesn't pay that much so it really doesn't cost that much and if the military facility had its own equipment then it wouldn't cost anything except the cost to buy and maintain the equipment. We can afford jets that cost billions of dollars and cannot fly so... Maybe we should get real physicals every year. Maybe radiologist should not 'guess' that noted issues likely aren't the cause of pain therefore causing the PCM to dismiss the problem.

Sh!t happens was probably the attitude back in the day when it was common place to leave sponges in patients from surgery.

Granted it's anecdotal, but it seems to be a recurring trend among people I talk to. I personally have encounter more bad medical professionals in the military than the civilian world. The bad ones I have encountered seem to not care about their patients and/or are dismissive to cases and do not listen to what the patient says. They listened to what the med tech says the patient said, which almost never translates to what the patient actually said.

Just the other day, I think this was the cause of my misdiagnosis (PCM said nothing was wrong with me) that resulted in me going to the ER (where I was properly diagnosed and treated) after the fact - the PCM was too wrapped up on what the med tech said I said rather than what I was saying. The two didn't add up because the med tech turned part of my answer to a question into a phrase that I did not say, so I think the PCM thought I was making sh!t up.

Maybe.........the professionals actually know what they are doing and those who surf the web and talk to their friends about what is "the right thing" to do or diagnose should consider that. There is no 100% in anything anywhere anytime. Decisions are made by humans using their knowledge, experience and perception of the circumstances. No one point or statement is the answer, as those who actually practice know that a good history of present illness will give you a major part of the diagnosis the exam coupled with studies will confirm it. Long before CT scans, MRI and a the plethora of labs studies available........ diseases and injury were being diagnosed with good clinical medicine skills. It is my belief that the over reliancee on test and specialist coupled with the rush to see 4-6 patients an hour has led to the current state of medicine in and out of the military. The elusive "They" who know all, do all, and who can't or does not fail or do whats right remain the foe of all endevors. BTW, leaving sponges in has never been acceptable, but has happened, if you've ever been in the OR you might seen the great pains taken to account for everything that enters the field. Yes "shit happens" and denial doesn't change it accepting that it happens, doesn't mean it's not "shit".

VFFTSGT
07-19-2013, 10:41 PM
Maybe.........the professionals actually know what they are doing and those who surf the web and talk to their friends about what is "the right thing" to do or diagnose should consider that. There is no 100% in anything anywhere anytime. Decisions are made by humans using their knowledge, experience and perception of the circumstances. No one point or statement is the answer, as those who actually practice know that a good history of present illness will give you a major part of the diagnosis the exam coupled with studies will confirm it. Long before CT scans, MRI and a the plethora of labs studies available........ diseases and injury were being diagnosed with good clinical medicine skills. It is my belief that the over reliancee on test and specialist coupled with the rush to see 4-6 patients an hour has led to the current state of medicine in and out of the military. The elusive "They" who know all, do all, and who can't or does not fail or do whats right remain the foe of all endevors. BTW, leaving sponges in has never been acceptable, but has happened, if you've ever been in the OR you might seen the great pains taken to account for everything that enters the field. Yes "shit happens" and denial doesn't change it accepting that it happens, doesn't mean it's not "shit".

Sorry, but when medical professionals spend less than 2 minutes with a patient and document in the patient's records they spent 20 minutes (or more) face to face time with the patient, they don't know what the "right thing" to do is.

106PADDOCK
07-19-2013, 11:02 PM
Sorry, but when medical professionals spend less than 2 minutes with a patient and document in the patient's records they spent 20 minutes (or more) face to face time with the patient, they don't know what the "right thing" to do is.

You are conflating your experience with my statement of medicine in genera, which is incorrect. If this is your observation, who did you report it to? Dishonesty isn't acceptable in any profession. In the civilian world we bill based on these encounters, lying is called fraudulent billing and will get you sent to jail.

ElRayDelPrivaron
07-21-2013, 04:22 AM
If at all possible, could you fellas direct me to a more pertinent thread for enlisting with a bit of a criminal history? I searched for awhole and found nothing.