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Shadowless
07-09-2013, 11:06 AM
Just got work from a friend stationed at OSAN AB Korea that the MSG Commander has ruled that no one will be receiving BAS anymore. I asked about shift workers and was told that unless they are missing more then 80% of their meals they can no longer receive BAS and if they are currently receiving BAS they will be having it removed and cut off. Is this true, has anyone heard of anything about this? Also, as a shift worker in tech school I remember having to fill out cards for missed meals, would this still apply here?

Chief_KO
07-09-2013, 12:17 PM
Wouldn't surprise me. As the AF continues to squeeze the rock to find out where to find $ this is an easy find. MSG/CC asks comptroller how much does base pay in BAS to dorm residents. Comptroller answers $175K. MSG/CC turns to MSG/CD and asks how much is this per year. MSG/CD (a USAFA-grad) whips out his/her Blackberry and calculates, then proudly tells MSG/CC $2.1M. MSG/CC then turns to FSS/CC and asks how many hours is the DFAC open, Flight Kitchen etc. MSG/CC now knows that DFAC and Flight kitchen covers 5 meal periods per day.
Twenty seven powerpoint slides later (with 3 COAs), and BOOM. NO BAS FOR YOU!!!

technomage1
07-09-2013, 12:38 PM
If the kitchen or DFAC is open for 5 meals a day AND it's accessible by the dorm population (without a car) I haven't got a problem with this. However, a lot of DFACs have stopped midnight meal, and if there is no ready transport to the flight kitchen, then this is a foul.

CrustySMSgt
07-09-2013, 12:42 PM
If the kitchen or DFAC is open for 5 meals a day AND it's accessible by the dorm population (without a car) I haven't got a problem with this. However, a lot of DFACs have stopped midnight meal, and if there is no ready transport to the flight kitchen, then this is a foul.

Summed up my response; shift work alone shouldn't justify BAS, must be meal availability... such as command post folks who can't leave to go get chow or Airmen working hours/locations that can't access chow during DFAC hours.

SomeRandomGuy
07-09-2013, 01:01 PM
Just got work from a friend stationed at OSAN AB Korea that the MSG Commander has ruled that no one will be receiving BAS anymore. I asked about shift workers and was told that unless they are missing more then 80% of their meals they can no longer receive BAS and if they are currently receiving BAS they will be having it removed and cut off. Is this true, has anyone heard of anything about this? Also, as a shift worker in tech school I remember having to fill out cards for missed meals, would this still apply here?

Interesting that you just summarized almost exactly what the regulation says regarding this. The wing commander (can delegate to MSG commander) is responsible for making sure that that ESM (Essential Station Messing) is applied uniformly for all enlisted members permanently assigned to single Government quarters at the same installation, station, base or ship. Exceptions may be made only when assigned duties cause an individual to miss more than 20 percent of their meals the Government furnishes on a monthly basis. (Source: AFMAN 65-116 V2 6.8.8)

If a member misses less than 20 percent of avaliable meals they can be refunded the meals that were missed due to performing duties. AFMAN 65-116 V1 25.2.3. Refunding Missed Meals: A member on ESM who misses meals due to work schedule conflicts is entitled to a refund for missed meals. A PI03 is used to refund meal collections to members who miss any meals (due to official reasons and providing commander’s approval has been acquired) that have already collected via a DN transaction (see Figure 25.6 for PI transaction format). Use DD Form 1475, Basic Allowance for Subsistence – Certification, as the source document for missed meals (see Figure 25.2). For more on the PI transaction, see paragraph 25.9.

So basically it sounds like the MSG commander realizes that the BAS program is being abused. The MSG commander also realizes that BAS review is supposed to be conducted quarterly and if it were discovered in a UCI that procedures were not being followed it would become a write-up. The important question here is whether or not the shift workers are in fact missing more than 20% of meals or is it just more conveinent for them to recieve BAS? Each individual unit would need to determine the number of meals avaliable (number or meals daily times number of days in the month) then multiply by .2. If the member is misisng more meals than that they and will continue to do so they are entitled to BAS. If not they should track missed meals on DD1475 and be reimbursed only for meals missed due to official duties.

71Fish
07-09-2013, 01:18 PM
What about "convenience" to the chow hall? Convenience can be somewhat of a subjective term in this case, but how far should someone without a car have to go to eat? Doesn't affect me, just playing devil's advocate.

Does this also apply to SNCO's? On the subject of convenience, the chow hall at Kunsan was a pretty good walk from where I lived and worked. The Osan chow hall is close to all the dorms plus the flight kitchen is close to "most" workcenters. The line there got long on steak day, which was not very convenient.

SomeRandomGuy
07-09-2013, 01:29 PM
What about "convenience" to the chow hall? Convenience can be somewhat of a subjective term in this case, but how far should someone without a car have to go to eat? Doesn't affect me, just playing devil's advocate.

AFMAN 65-116 V2 6.8.6 6.8.6. Location of dining facility makes use impracticable. Commanding officers will determine when the location of a government mess, in relation to members' duty location, makes the use of the dining facility impracticable.

This is completely commander's discretion. They would need to weigh several factors like how long it takes to walk to the dining facility. They would also need to consider if the lunch break given is long enough to make this walk. They would also want to compare the walk to the dining facility versus the walk to other locations. So to answer your question it is a commander decision but should be applied uniformly to everyone.


Does this also apply to SNCO's? On the subject of convenience, the chow hall at Kunsan was a pretty good walk from where I lived and worked. The Osan chow hall is close to all the dorms plus the flight kitchen is close to "most" workcenters. The line there got long on steak day, which was not very convenient.

Glad you asked this is my favorite part. (SNCOs are automatically granted BAS because of their "responsibilties")

AFMAN 65-116 V2 6.8.8.1. Not collecting for meal charges. Enlisted members may receive BAS without meal deductions only when they are not furnished government meals or when granted permission to mess separately, unless provided meals by military treatment facilities (see 6.8.8 above). Automatic authority to mess separately is granted to:

6.8.8.1.1. E-7, E-8s, and E-9s.

6.8.8.1.2. Enlisted member residing with dependents at the member’s permanent duty station (exception non-command sponsored dependents).

6.8.8.1.3. Military couples assigned to the same installation or adjacent installations and maintaining common family quarters.

tiredretiredE7
07-09-2013, 04:16 PM
Wouldn't surprise me. As the AF continues to squeeze the rock to find out where to find $ this is an easy find. MSG/CC asks comptroller how much does base pay in BAS to dorm residents. Comptroller answers $175K. MSG/CC turns to MSG/CD and asks how much is this per year. MSG/CD (a USAFA-grad) whips out his/her Blackberry and calculates, then proudly tells MSG/CC $2.1M. MSG/CC then turns to FSS/CC and asks how many hours is the DFAC open, Flight Kitchen etc. MSG/CC now knows that DFAC and Flight kitchen covers 5 meal periods per day.
Twenty seven powerpoint slides later (with 3 COAs), and BOOM. NO BAS FOR YOU!!!

This brings up some awesome memories of Osan and the whole BAS saving money or having TSgt and below eat at the dining facility. I had an awesome shirt who believed all SF should be on BAS and need some "ammo" to go at Services with. I had a staff position and decided to help out our shirt by using Services way of accounting for food against Services. The cashier would ring up my meal and I always asked for a receipt. It turns out Services marks up the cost of the food for numerous reasons from the actual cost but used the actual cost of the food on wing staff slides to document the savings. I was costing the AF $1200/month on average due to the amount of food I was eating in the chow hall and my peers were around $750/month according to their receipts. BAS was around $250 so where was the cost savings? My shirt used 3 months worth of receipts to talk to the Services shirt about why SF needs to be on BAS. Ofcourse the Services shirt called our shirts bluff and said it was not going to happen regardless. This ofcourse was elevated to MSG level but SF is under the MSG however our CC and the MSG CC were rivals and the MSG CC was making our CC life hell for other reasons so the day finally came for a Wing CC to ask how things were going in the dining facility, were there any problems, how could we do things better for the Amn? Our CC had the 3 months of receipts with him and stood up to address the possibility for some huge savings that could potentially be shifted to increase sortie generation. The Wing CC saw the MSG CC turn immediately red and asked them both to stay after. See in the SF world if you want to get the Wing CCs attention mention sortie generation. Hide the actual reason for the change and twist how the change will directly contribute to increased sortie generation. We still stayed on BAS and the Services CC had some explaining to do to the MSG CC and Wing CC about the receipts my CC had in his hand. The Services CC had to conduct an extended survey of actual costs to see what the real savings were and the survey did not end until after I pcsed.

SomeRandomGuy
07-09-2013, 04:27 PM
This brings up some awesome memories of Osan and the whole BAS saving money or having TSgt and below eat at the dining facility. I had an awesome shirt who believed all SF should be on BAS and need some "ammo" to go at Services with. I had a staff position and decided to help out our shirt by using Services way of accounting for food against Services. The cashier would ring up my meal and I always asked for a receipt. It turns out Services marks up the cost of the food for numerous reasons from the actual cost but used the actual cost of the food on wing staff slides to document the savings. I was costing the AF $1200/month on average due to the amount of food I was eating in the chow hall and my peers were around $750/month according to their receipts. BAS was around $250 so where was the cost savings? My shirt used 3 months worth of receipts to talk to the Services shirt about why SF needs to be on BAS. Ofcourse the Services shirt called our shirts bluff and said it was not going to happen regardless. This ofcourse was elevated to MSG level but SF is under the MSG however our CC and the MSG CC were rivals and the MSG CC was making our CC life hell for other reasons so the day finally came for a Wing CC to ask how things were going in the dining facility, were there any problems, how could we do things better for the Amn? Our CC had the 3 months of receipts with him and stood up to address the possibility for some huge savings that could potentially be shifted to increase sortie generation. The Wing CC saw the MSG CC turn immediately red and asked them both to stay after. See in the SF world if you want to get the Wing CCs attention mention sortie generation. Hide the actual reason for the change and twist how the change will directly contribute to increased sortie generation. We still stayed on BAS and the Services CC had some explaining to do to the MSG CC and Wing CC about the receipts my CC had in his hand. The Services CC had to conduct an extended survey of actual costs to see what the real savings were and the survey did not end until after I pcsed.

The part I bolded has always pissed me off. At my first base Security Forces was under the impression that they were automatically granted BAS even those individuals living in the dorms. For the most part they got away with it and other AFSCs started following suit. It got to the point that basically only about 40% of the dorm Airmen were actually on a meal card. This in turned reduced the dining facility budget to almost nothing and the quality of food became an issue. The wing commander decided to do what was mentioned above. All dorm Airmen authorized BAS needed to obtain MSG approval. This allowed MSG to track the reasons. I have never understood how SF should automatically be authorized BAS but other AFSCs shouldn't. Just stop by the dining facility at just about any base and you will normally see at least 3 SF cruisers parked in the lot. Most of the SF NCOs choose to go to the chow hall because of the price and it is one of very few places they are actually authorized to drive their crusier to.

The bottom line is every single shop in the AF has to manage their personnel to allow for meal breaks. If I had to allow my Amn at finance to go to lunch while still maintaing a customer service counter, and phone lines why can't SF manage their personnel the same? Hint it involves staggering your personnel on lunch breaks which means everyone cannot go at the same time.

tiredretiredE7
07-09-2013, 04:47 PM
The part I bolded has always pissed me off. At my first base Security Forces was under the impression that they were automatically granted BAS even those individuals living in the dorms. For the most part they got away with it and other AFSCs started following suit. It got to the point that basically only about 40% of the dorm Airmen were actually on a meal card. This in turned reduced the dining facility budget to almost nothing and the quality of food became an issue. The wing commander decided to do what was mentioned above. All dorm Airmen authorized BAS needed to obtain MSG approval. This allowed MSG to track the reasons. I have never understood how SF should automatically be authorized BAS but other AFSCs shouldn't. Just stop by the dining facility at just about any base and you will normally see at least 3 SF cruisers parked in the lot. Most of the SF NCOs choose to go to the chow hall because of the price and it is one of very few places they are actually authorized to drive their crusier to.

The bottom line is every single shop in the AF has to manage their personnel to allow for meal breaks. If I had to allow my Amn at finance to go to lunch while still maintaing a customer service counter, and phone lines why can't SF manage their personnel the same? Hint it involves staggering your personnel on lunch breaks which means everyone cannot go at the same time.

There two assignments out of 20 years where we could not get troops to the chow hall due to manning and a lack of vehicles which would result in breaking some timed responses. The rest of my assignments we could and did use the dining facility. I can say that the AF lost every month I ate at the dining facilities and BAS would have been much cheaper in my case. Maybe I am just a big eater? So SRG this is one of the few posts I do mostly agree with you.

SomeRandomGuy
07-09-2013, 05:01 PM
There two assignments out of 20 years where we could not get troops to the chow hall due to manning and a lack of vehicles which would result in breaking some timed responses. The rest of my assignments we could and did use the dining facility. I can say that the AF lost every month I ate at the dining facilities and BAS would have been much cheaper in my case. Maybe I am just a big eater? So SRG this is one of the few posts I do mostly agree with you.

Personally, I have always been on the side of people who want to eliminate all dining facilities and simply pay everyone BAS. I realize this creates a few issues but I think it solves more than it creates.

PROS:
1. More money in single Amn pockets.
2. Amn learn at a young age how to cook and plan meals
3. Money savings from finance no longer tracking meal deductions
4. Money savings from no longer providing the meals

CONS:
1. No chance for services to hone their craft except when deployed
2. Full per diem authorized for all TDY travelers
3. Guard and reserve need somewhere to eat on drill weekends
4. Have to fee prisoners and inpatient hospital staff somehow


It seems to me the solution would be for each base to look at the feasability of their chow hall (some bases have). In places like korea the chow hall may be justified. At bases like Wright-Patterson (where I was at one point) the chow hall could go away and no one would miss it. I like the idea of everyone getting BAS as opposed to just certain AFSCs and shift workers getting the hookup.

grimreaper
07-09-2013, 07:17 PM
Interesting that you just summarized almost exactly what the regulation says regarding this. The wing commander (can delegate to MSG commander) is responsible for making sure that that ESM (Essential Station Messing) is applied uniformly for all enlisted members permanently assigned to single Government quarters at the same installation, station, base or ship. Exceptions may be made only when assigned duties cause an individual to miss more than 20 percent of their meals the Government furnishes on a monthly basis. (Source: AFMAN 65-116 V2 6.8.8)

If a member misses less than 20 percent of avaliable meals they can be refunded the meals that were missed due to performing duties. AFMAN 65-116 V1 25.2.3. Refunding Missed Meals: A member on ESM who misses meals due to work schedule conflicts is entitled to a refund for missed meals. A PI03 is used to refund meal collections to members who miss any meals (due to official reasons and providing commander’s approval has been acquired) that have already collected via a DN transaction (see Figure 25.6 for PI transaction format). Use DD Form 1475, Basic Allowance for Subsistence – Certification, as the source document for missed meals (see Figure 25.2). For more on the PI transaction, see paragraph 25.9.

So basically it sounds like the MSG commander realizes that the BAS program is being abused. The MSG commander also realizes that BAS review is supposed to be conducted quarterly and if it were discovered in a UCI that procedures were not being followed it would become a write-up. The important question here is whether or not the shift workers are in fact missing more than 20% of meals or is it just more conveinent for them to recieve BAS? Each individual unit would need to determine the number of meals avaliable (number or meals daily times number of days in the month) then multiply by .2. If the member is misisng more meals than that they and will continue to do so they are entitled to BAS. If not they should track missed meals on DD1475 and be reimbursed only for meals missed due to official duties.

Just pinged an firefighter buddy there I know. Fortunately for them, they were smart enough to have it written into their AFI that they will get BAS.

AFI 32-2001
2.8.6. To ensure crew integrity and prevent negatively impacting response times due to disruptions in emergency response posture, military firefighters shall be authorized Basic Allowance for Subsistence (BAS).

BOSS302
07-09-2013, 07:42 PM
Having been stationed at Osan AB, the dorms are clustered around two main chow halls - the Pacific House and the Gingko Tree. Out on the flight line, there is the "Back of the Hangar" flight kitchen. All are readily accessible with breakfast, lunch, dinner, and midnight meals served.

There is no reason why BAS should be given so freely. It's the same as the POV driving privileges; too many Staff and Tech Sergeants driving on base because commanders are accepting the most basic of reasons to give the privileges. Thus, once one silly reason gets approved, that individual merely lets their buddies use it as a template and then the whole system is abused.

I see nothing wrong with shift workers having their BAS revoked. It's on them to get to the chow halls that are readily-available, and it's on their shops to ensure that they are given ample time to eat while on duty at the readily-available chow halls. The MSG/CC is not the problem here. The problem lies in over-generous squadron commanders and first-line supervisors who are fueling the abuse of the BAS system by their rank & file.

VFFTSGT
07-09-2013, 07:45 PM
Wouldn't surprise me. As the AF continues to squeeze the rock to find out where to find $ this is an easy find. MSG/CC asks comptroller how much does base pay in BAS to dorm residents. Comptroller answers $175K. MSG/CC turns to MSG/CD and asks how much is this per year. MSG/CD (a USAFA-grad) whips out his/her Blackberry and calculates, then proudly tells MSG/CC $2.1M. MSG/CC then turns to FSS/CC and asks how many hours is the DFAC open, Flight Kitchen etc. MSG/CC now knows that DFAC and Flight kitchen covers 5 meal periods per day.
Twenty seven powerpoint slides later (with 3 COAs), and BOOM. NO BAS FOR YOU!!!

I wonder how much money we could save if we cut off all blackberries and government phones...these are luxuries and conveniences...not necessities.

Mcjohn1118
07-09-2013, 07:52 PM
Personally, I have always been on the side of people who want to eliminate all dining facilities and simply pay everyone BAS. I realize this creates a few issues but I think it solves more than it creates.

At bases like Wright-Patterson (where I was at one point) the chow hall could go away and no one would miss it. I like the idea of everyone getting BAS as opposed to just certain AFSCs and shift workers getting the hookup.

SRG, for the most part, you are correct except the inmates we have (when we have them) at WPAFB. We can't really have them brown bag their meals. I guess the unit they are assigned to could have potlucks 3 times a day but...

VFFTSGT
07-09-2013, 07:57 PM
SRG, for the most part, you are correct except the inmates we have (when we have them) at WPAFB. We can't really have them brown bag their meals. I guess the unit they are assigned to could have potlucks 3 times a day but...

Civilian police stations have periodic prisoners too. They typically don't have full service chow halls either. They go to town and buy hot plate meals from places like deli's at the local grocery store.

The real downside to not have a chow hall on base is a military base should have the ability to close it's gates and sustain itself for a period of time. Without a chow hall, you cannot do this unless you going to feed everyone MRE's for sustainment.

There is an inherent cost of doing business...but then again, we don't have a military mindset anymore when it comes to in-garrison support.

technomage1
07-09-2013, 08:46 PM
Summed up my response; shift work alone shouldn't justify BAS, must be meal availability... such as command post folks who can't leave to go get chow or Airmen working hours/locations that can't access chow during DFAC hours.

When I was at Ramstein and in the dorms many moons ago, the north side DFAC closed and they wanted all of us to eat at the southside facility. Now, my dorm was near that so that wasn't a problem. However, for lunch we were not allowed to take GOVs to the DFAC. It took 1/2 an hour each way on the bus to get there from where I worked, and it would've taken longer than that to walk. I wound up riding my bike or bumming rides. I thought that was a foul then and I still think that now. I didn't mind eating there, but to me access needs to be reasonable and those conditions were not.

BRUWIN
07-09-2013, 11:25 PM
If I'm being furloughed than the entire unaccompanied base population at Osan should be eating MREs.

KellyinAvon
07-10-2013, 12:54 AM
If I'm being furloughed than the entire unaccompanied base population at Osan should be eating MREs.

Why the hate on the dorm-dwellers Bru? Make those spouses and rug-rats eat MREs too!:wall:

KellyinAvon
07-10-2013, 01:53 AM
MREs are for the Army.

Meals Rambo Eats?

KellyinAvon
07-10-2013, 02:15 AM
I went short notice TDY to roving sands, a joint exercise at Fort Bliss Texas.
AF had rental cars, stayed at residence Inn and had per diem, went
to red lobster and such. The army stayed in tents and had boxes of MREs,
we were made to drive them around with our cars for the joint fight :-)

We went to the right recruiter.

OtisRNeedleman
07-10-2013, 05:20 AM
Having been stationed at Osan AB, the dorms are clustered around two main chow halls - the Pacific House and the Gingko Tree. Out on the flight line, there is the "Back of the Hangar" flight kitchen. All are readily accessible with breakfast, lunch, dinner, and midnight meals served.

There is no reason why BAS should be given so freely. It's the same as the POV driving privileges; too many Staff and Tech Sergeants driving on base because commanders are accepting the most basic of reasons to give the privileges. Thus, once one silly reason gets approved, that individual merely lets their buddies use it as a template and then the whole system is abused.

I see nothing wrong with shift workers having their BAS revoked. It's on them to get to the chow halls that are readily-available, and it's on their shops to ensure that they are given ample time to eat while on duty at the readily-available chow halls. The MSG/CC is not the problem here. The problem lies in over-generous squadron commanders and first-line supervisors who are fueling the abuse of the BAS system by their rank & file.

However, there are some shift workers at Osan who cannot leave to go to the chow hall, unless something has changed. Way back when I was a Skivvy-Niner at Osan we used to bring chow from the chow hall to Hill 170 and the HTACC. I'll never forget the immortal "box bennies"...

BOSS302
07-10-2013, 08:53 AM
However, there are some shift workers at Osan who cannot leave to go to the chow hall, unless something has changed. Way back when I was a Skivvy-Niner at Osan we used to bring chow from the chow hall to Hill 170 and the HTACC. I'll never forget the immortal "box bennies"...

I believe it is the responsibility of the shop to get the meals to their airmen who cannot get the meals themselves. If this is truly unreasonable, then BAS is the next obvious option.

Unfortunately this is not the case at Osan. BAS is given for the most flimsy of reasons. Those flimsy reasons set a precedence, and the buddies of that airman who got BAS simply copy his/her justification letter and now there's an entire group of airmen abusing the BAS system. Multiply this across the base and it adds up.

It's the same as driving privileges. It's sickening to see the number of unaccompanied one-year SSgt/TSgts driving a POV on base and that's a contributing factor to why parking, driving, and getting on base in the morning at the gates is such a bitch. A SSgt I knew personally was granted POV privileges because she worked the UCC during exercises.

Really? That is justification to drive a POV at Osan?

Mind you, these are the same one-year people who are getting their follow-on assignments and hardship duty pay.

BRUWIN
07-10-2013, 10:05 AM
Back in 2002 I was a SMSgt in Korea and we didn't even have the option of eating at the D-FAC. The SNCO dorms had a kitchenette in each room and I lived on Hamburger Helper for a year...it sucked.

El Kabong
07-10-2013, 10:35 AM
Back in 2002 I was a SMSgt in Korea and we didn't even have the option of eating at the D-FAC. The SNCO dorms had a kitchenette in each room and I lived on Hamburger Helper for a year...it sucked.

did you read the instructions?

Airborne
07-10-2013, 10:35 AM
Personally, I have always been on the side of people who want to eliminate all dining facilities and simply pay everyone BAS. I realize this creates a few issues but I think it solves more than it creates.

PROS:
1. More money in single Amn pockets.
2. Amn learn at a young age how to cook and plan meals
3. Money savings from finance no longer tracking meal deductions
4. Money savings from no longer providing the meals

CONS:
1. No chance for services to hone their craft except when deployed
2. Full per diem authorized for all TDY travelers
3. Guard and reserve need somewhere to eat on drill weekends
4. Have to fee prisoners and inpatient hospital staff somehow


It seems to me the solution would be for each base to look at the feasability of their chow hall (some bases have). In places like korea the chow hall may be justified. At bases like Wright-Patterson (where I was at one point) the chow hall could go away and no one would miss it. I like the idea of everyone getting BAS as opposed to just certain AFSCs and shift workers getting the hookup.

In theory, just because you are giving everyone BAS doesnt mean you cant have some sort of dining facility. Well per AFI I guess it does...But it doesnt have to be the mashed potatoes for 10 cents kind of place that we have now but it could be. In my short time, if the chow hall is convenient and offers good food I will eat there. You can only really brown bag it or go to the BX food court so much.

BOSS302
07-10-2013, 01:46 PM
Back in 2002 I was a SMSgt in Korea and we didn't even have the option of eating at the D-FAC. The SNCO dorms had a kitchenette in each room and I lived on Hamburger Helper for a year...it sucked.

I would have figured you'd fish at the river in your blues during your lunch hour.

SomeRandomGuy
07-10-2013, 02:13 PM
In theory, just because you are giving everyone BAS doesnt mean you cant have some sort of dining facility. Well per AFI I guess it does...But it doesnt have to be the mashed potatoes for 10 cents kind of place that we have now but it could be. In my short time, if the chow hall is convenient and offers good food I will eat there. You can only really brown bag it or go to the BX food court so much.

I have always been a fan of this idea too. If we could get AAFES to take their hand out of everyone's pocket on base. I like the idea of having a restaurant on base that is maybe slightly subsidized but does not provide free meals. You pay for what you order just like every other restaurant. If the food is good people will eat there if not the place will go out of business and someone else gets a shot. If the government offered to pay for the building and maybe utilities I could see a lot of restaurants who would be happy to come on base and compete with AAFES.

RobotChicken
07-10-2013, 02:56 PM
I have always been a fan of this idea too. If we could get AAFES to take their hand out of everyone's pocket on base. I like the idea of having a restaurant on base that is maybe slightly subsidized but does not provide free meals. You pay for what you order just like every other restaurant. If the food is good people will eat there if not the place will go out of business and someone else gets a shot. If the government offered to pay for the building and maybe utilities I could see a lot of restaurants who would be happy to come on base and compete with AAFES.

"Good luck with that...AAFES and USAA (Defense industry) all heavens for retired O-6+ officers."

BOSS302
07-10-2013, 08:03 PM
I have always been a fan of this idea too. If we could get AAFES to take their hand out of everyone's pocket on base. I like the idea of having a restaurant on base that is maybe slightly subsidized but does not provide free meals. You pay for what you order just like every other restaurant. If the food is good people will eat there if not the place will go out of business and someone else gets a shot. If the government offered to pay for the building and maybe utilities I could see a lot of restaurants who would be happy to come on base and compete with AAFES.

FSS (Non-Appropiated Funds) is also greedy.

Many years ago, Chili's was interested in opening a restaurant at RAF Mildenhall in the new Galaxy Club complex. In fact half of the ground floor was going to be Chili's. FSS wanted a huge chunk of the profits. Chili's balked and, well, now Mildenhall has a "New York City Pizza & Deli" and a "Route 66 Cafe" that is inferior to a mall food court.

BRUWIN
07-10-2013, 11:56 PM
I would have figured you'd fish at the river in your blues during your lunch hour.

I fish...I don't fish well.

BRUWIN
07-10-2013, 11:58 PM
did you read the instructions?

You sound like my wife when I have to cook for my boys. We now eat out a lot when she ain't here.

KellyinAvon
07-11-2013, 12:09 AM
You sound like my wife when I have to cook for my boys. We now eat out a lot when she ain't here.

Food rarely has instructions that begin with "remove from box". That's too bad.

Airborne
07-11-2013, 01:35 AM
FSS (Non-Appropiated Funds) is also greedy.

Many years ago, Chili's was interested in opening a restaurant at RAF Mildenhall in the new Galaxy Club complex. In fact half of the ground floor was going to be Chili's. FSS wanted a huge chunk of the profits. Chili's balked and, well, now Mildenhall has a "New York City Pizza & Deli" and a "Route 66 Cafe" that is inferior to a mall food court.

WHile it gets boring, I think that NYPD wasnt that bad. I dont think Chilis would be a good fit there and Im sure the lines would be out of the door all of the time.

Chief_KO
07-11-2013, 02:10 AM
At the Hump (Cp Humphreys for those not in the know) back around 1996 someone had the great idea to pull BAS from all the USAF stationed at the 607 CBCS (Combat Comm Sq). Figured they'd save $$. All was well till the post found out and called the First Sergeant to set up the KP schedule for E4 and below. The 607th would have to give up 2 Amn a week for KP duty. When sq/gp leadership relooked at the BAS vs. KP duty they decided not to pull BAS after all...

Chief_KO
07-11-2013, 02:13 AM
Some of you youngsters won't remember (and may not believe) but prior to Operation DESERT STORM when you deployed (even for a field exercise) you lost your BAS and did not even receive the $3.50 a day for incidentals that you get now. Used to love the days at Robins and in Korea...go out for a week or two week deployment...lose BAS, fill out a travel voucher and receive $0.00...those were the days..

BRUWIN
07-11-2013, 03:08 AM
Some of you youngsters won't remember (and may not believe) but prior to Operation DESERT STORM when you deployed (even for a field exercise) you lost your BAS and did not even receive the $3.50 a day for incidentals that you get now. Used to love the days at Robins and in Korea...go out for a week or two week deployment...lose BAS, fill out a travel voucher and receive $0.00...those were the days..

Hey you're right... I forgot all about that. Do that now and the 2-stripers will have to trade in their Dodge Rams with the V-8 Hemi.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-11-2013, 03:31 AM
Some of you youngsters won't remember (and may not believe) but prior to Operation DESERT STORM when you deployed (even for a field exercise) you lost your BAS and did not even receive the $3.50 a day for incidentals that you get now. Used to love the days at Robins and in Korea...go out for a week or two week deployment...lose BAS, fill out a travel voucher and receive $0.00...those were the days..

I remember getting bas pulled whenever I went on a Provide Comfort deployment, but still making money from the 39.50 per day we got paid in tent city, plus HFP.

Shadowless
07-11-2013, 06:48 AM
I believe it is the responsibility of the shop to get the meals to their airmen who cannot get the meals themselves. If this is truly unreasonable, then BAS is the next obvious option.

Unfortunately this is not the case at Osan. BAS is given for the most flimsy of reasons. Those flimsy reasons set a precedence, and the buddies of that airman who got BAS simply copy his/her justification letter and now there's an entire group of airmen abusing the BAS system. Multiply this across the base and it adds up.

It's the same as driving privileges. It's sickening to see the number of unaccompanied one-year SSgt/TSgts driving a POV on base and that's a contributing factor to why parking, driving, and getting on base in the morning at the gates is such a bitch. A SSgt I knew personally was granted POV privileges because she worked the UCC during exercises.

Really? That is justification to drive a POV at Osan?

Mind you, these are the same one-year people who are getting their follow-on assignments and hardship duty pay.

I realize our leadership are full of our of touch morons but did they ever stop to think that there are some jobs...that...well..do NOT get a lunch break and eat their lunch at their desk everyday? How are these people supposed to go the chow hall when they don't even get a lunch break to begin with?

BOSS302
07-11-2013, 11:28 AM
I realize our leadership are full of our of touch morons but did they ever stop to think that there are some jobs...that...well..do NOT get a lunch break and eat their lunch at their desk everyday? How are these people supposed to go the chow hall when they don't even get a lunch break to begin with?

There are very few jobs at Osan that involve people both NOT getting a lunch break and their section NOT able to bring them lunch. Even during exercises, meal card people turned-in a form and they received a box of MREs; BAS people would have to pay $59.00 if they wanted a box of them. Of course, if one is on BAS...pre-cook and bring your own food; thus is the point of BAS.

Both BAS and driving privileges are out of control at Osan. I know they have reigned in the "living off base" for many NCOs; many dorms have seen their remodeling efforts completed, doors reopened, and NCOs are moving in again. Of course, with today's entitlement culture, there were many Staffs/Techs coming in furious that they would not get to live off-base. I knew of one female who said she was going to "write her Congressman." lol.

BOSS302
07-11-2013, 11:34 AM
Hey you're right... I forgot all about that. Do that now and the 2-stripers will have to trade in their Dodge Rams with the V-8 Hemi.

You are very out of touch with today's E2-E4 populace. Depending upon the MAJCOM, the following applies:

E2-E4 in USAFE - Brand new BMW 3-Series
E2-E4 in PACAF - Fully-modded Nissan Skyline

Shadowless
07-11-2013, 01:31 PM
There are very few jobs at Osan that involve people both NOT getting a lunch break and their section NOT able to bring them lunch. Even during exercises, meal card people turned-in a form and they received a box of MREs; BAS people would have to pay $59.00 if they wanted a box of them. Of course, if one is on BAS...pre-cook and bring your own food; thus is the point of BAS.

Both BAS and driving privileges are out of control at Osan. I know they have reigned in the "living off base" for many NCOs; many dorms have seen their remodeling efforts completed, doors reopened, and NCOs are moving in again. Of course, with today's entitlement culture, there were many Staffs/Techs coming in furious that they would not get to live off-base. I knew of one female who said she was going to "write her Congressman." lol.

There may be very FEW jobs at Osan that people can not get a lunch break and people are not able to bring their own food but I can assure you there ARE jobs where for instance a friend of mine who is there RIGHT now does not get a lunch break. Why? Because she works in a job that is 24/7, not sure if you realize that but yes there are jobs that work 24/7 in the Air Force. Also since she is not working 7-3 like the rest of you, there is no one there to cover her because...wait for it...yes she is the ONLY one at work during that shift. What are they doing for her? Well she told me they are letting her close down shop for just enough time to walk over to the chow hall, get her food, and come back. Personally, I told her to take her very sweet time walking over there but I guess I am a jerk off for saying that. Also, she was informed that she can not leave under certain conditions to which I replied...so if you go to work and these 'conditions' are not taking place, but then after an hour they do, you have to stay? She said yes, I said what about eating, are you supposed to starve?

As for Staffs and Techs living off base, I don't personally know anyone who does so I can't comment on that however I do wonder what your rank is and if you were one of those entitled or maybe you are just bitter because you had to live in the dorms? Just curious.

BRUWIN
07-11-2013, 04:34 PM
You are very out of touch with today's E2-E4 populace. Depending upon the MAJCOM, the following applies:

E2-E4 in USAFE - Brand new BMW 3-Series
E2-E4 in PACAF - Fully-modded Nissan Skyline

I haven't been overseas for 5 years so I am a little out of touch there. I do know that a 2-striper here in the states moved a riding lawn mower for me a couple months back with his Dodge Ram. Sweet truck.

71Fish
07-11-2013, 04:53 PM
There are very few jobs at Osan that involve people both NOT getting a lunch break and their section NOT able to bring them lunch. Even during exercises, meal card people turned-in a form and they received a box of MREs; BAS people would have to pay $59.00 if they wanted a box of them. Of course, if one is on BAS...pre-cook and bring your own food; thus is the point of BAS.

Both BAS and driving privileges are out of control at Osan. I know they have reigned in the "living off base" for many NCOs; many dorms have seen their remodeling efforts completed, doors reopened, and NCOs are moving in again. Of course, with today's entitlement culture, there were many Staffs/Techs coming in furious that they would not get to live off-base. I knew of one female who said she was going to "write her Congressman." lol.
The (American) civilian in our office used to bring us Popeye's and Taco Bell during exercises. I never ate that kind of food except when it was forbidden to do so.

Shadowless
07-12-2013, 02:31 AM
If the MSG wants to get serious about saving money on BAS then he or she should have the self respect to make it that ANYONE and EVERYONE living on base from the lowest ranking to the highest ranking will eat at the chow hall. Not just E6 and below. If he or she does that to include themselves I will then respect them.

SomeRandomGuy
07-12-2013, 02:39 AM
If the MSG wants to get serious about saving money on BAS then he or she should have the self respect to make it that ANYONE and EVERYONE living on base from the lowest ranking to the highest ranking will eat at the chow hall. Not just E6 and below. If he or she does that to include themselves I will then respect them.

Just so you know it has nothing to do with saving money. BAS, BAH, COLA, and every other Military Pay entitlement is paid from Military Personnel funds at the AF level. If a base decided every single person on base would be on a meal card it wouldn't save a dime at the base level. Military personnel are paid at the AF level and I guarantee you that the MSG commander could care less about saving money there. Taking away BAS is about two things, 1.) Following regulations, 2.) Diverting AF funds into the dining facility which improves the quality of food. It doesn't actually save the base anything. They just get a few more dollars collected in that can be used to make the chow hall better for the people who weren't lucky enough to cheat the system.

BOSS302
07-12-2013, 11:05 AM
There may be very FEW jobs at Osan that people can not get a lunch break and people are not able to bring their own food but I can assure you there ARE jobs where for instance a friend of mine who is there RIGHT now does not get a lunch break. Why? Because she works in a job that is 24/7, not sure if you realize that but yes there are jobs that work 24/7 in the Air Force. Also since she is not working 7-3 like the rest of you, there is no one there to cover her because...wait for it...yes she is the ONLY one at work during that shift. What are they doing for her? Well she told me they are letting her close down shop for just enough time to walk over to the chow hall, get her food, and come back. Personally, I told her to take her very sweet time walking over there but I guess I am a jerk off for saying that. Also, she was informed that she can not leave under certain conditions to which I replied...so if you go to work and these 'conditions' are not taking place, but then after an hour they do, you have to stay? She said yes, I said what about eating, are you supposed to starve?

As for Staffs and Techs living off base, I don't personally know anyone who does so I can't comment on that however I do wonder what your rank is and if you were one of those entitled or maybe you are just bitter because you had to live in the dorms? Just curious.

Who are you getting mad at?

Reading my previous posts, I believe I have been consistent in supporting genuine BAS needs while being against the "Freebie BAS" culture where the most flimsy of reasons somehow get CC approval, and once that reason is accepted by the CC, others simply copy/paste that letter with their NAME/RANK and send it on up the chain where the process repeats.

It sounds like your friend has not only a genuine need for BAS but also a genuine need for someone to re-evaluate her work center and figure out just what the hell is going on; there seems to be deeper issues than simply BAS & lunch hours.

As for the "7-3 like the rest of you", I can assure you that my hours are nothing like that. I worked far too many stand-by calls, typhoons, ice storms, and "do it NOW" projects that took me beyond "Banker's Hours."

BOSS302
07-12-2013, 11:16 AM
The (American) civilian in our office used to bring us Popeye's and Taco Bell during exercises. I never ate that kind of food except when it was forbidden to do so.

It infuriated me as EET to be expected to tell the guys I was evaluating that they had to abide by asinine rules while others - 7th AF, 5th RS, Army, Dependasauruses, Dependent Brats - were able to eat what they wanted and go where they wanted (BX, gym, food court, off base). When one of the Koreans would bring them Taco Bell and Pizza Hut, I saw no evil/smelled no evil.

One may say, "Hey, rules are rules. Deal with it." But some of these rules become comical when one steps back and examines the surrounding environment. For example, how as an EET member can I correct someone's minor MOPP Lvl infraction with a straight face when a "non-player" is walking by us in gym shorts and flip-flops with a cup of Starbucks in his hand? It's a bit farcical and forces me to step back and think that the "little things" are just that - little things - and that the "give and take" really comes into play.

Okay, enough from me...:focus

Chief_KO
07-13-2013, 12:43 PM
Last time I was at Osan (94-98) all personnel, all units had to respond during a base exercise...guess they flipped that around again. The only non players were in/out processing and you had to wear your blues to identify yourself as a non player (and carry your a copy of your orders).