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Banned
07-03-2013, 04:27 AM
Since Conservatives love regulating vaginas so much, they'll love this one... fair's fair, right? ;)

Turner’s bill would require men to submit to a psychiatric evaluation, a cardiac stress test and have a notarized letter from their sexual partner confirming their erectile dysfunction before a single Viagra or Cialis tablet can be prescribed. The bill of course is a direct and sharp jab at Republican laws that force women into undergoing unnecessary and sometimes cruel and creepy measures before they can get the abortion they are seeking. In some states it’s even become par for the course to write laws requiring a transvaginal ultrasound, essentially giving the state government the right to shove something up inside a woman all in a sycophantic quest to end all abortions everywhere.http://aattp.org/female-dem-floats-viagra-bill-to-counter-anti-contraception-legislation/

USN - Retired
07-03-2013, 07:06 AM
Honestly, I seriously doubt that most conservatives have a problem with the Turner bill. They probably like it (except for those conservatives with ED).

Since men should have no right to regulate and control what goes into a woman, then men shouldn't have any legal obligation to financially support any kid that comes out of a woman. If it is her body and her choice, then shouldn't it also be her own financial responsibility?

Here's an analogy to support my thought...If you give a woman a puppy and she accepts the puppy, are you then financially responsible to support that puppy? It is not a perfect analogy, but perhaps you see my point.

Here's an idea... Since we give women the right to get an abortion, we should also give men a similar right. Before a child is born, the father of that unborn child should have the right to "abort" his legal and financial obligations as a father. Of course, if the father chooses to "abort" his legal and financial obligations as a father, then he is also "aborting" all his rights as a father.

.....fair's fair, right?

(and please try to avoid the personal attacks and shaming language when/if you respond to my post)

RS6405
07-03-2013, 08:57 AM
USN,

If you want to follow in Joe's theme about intrusive government action..... What if the only way to volunteer to terminate parental rights/ legal responsibility is to be castrated?

TJMAC77SP
07-03-2013, 11:00 AM
While I understand the lawmaker's point I don't understand the correlation between the steps necessary before taking a prescription medication and the steps taken prior to an invasive surgical procedure. She missed the mark here.

I didn’t see spelled out anywhere in the opinion piece from an anti Tea Party website the details of the “unnecessary and sometimes cruel and creepy measures” that Republicans have mandated in their bills before a doctor can perform an abortion. Do doctors object to a transvaginal ultrasound as unnecessary for this procedure? In what state is this law that requires such a procedure? Did I miss something?

RS6405
07-03-2013, 11:23 AM
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/mar/21/bob-mcdonnell/mcdonnell-says-23-states-have-ultrasound-requireme/

It's a dated article, but it lists out the types of ultrasounds required by each state. It references Virginia's attempt at an invasive ultrasound/ pre-abortion, which the invasive portion did not pass.

Here's another link for a google search.
https://www.google.com/search?q=transvaginal+ultrasound+pre+abortion&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Pullinteeth
07-03-2013, 12:48 PM
While I understand the lawmaker's point I don't understand the correlation between the steps necessary before taking a prescription medication and the steps taken prior to an invasive surgical procedure. She missed the mark here.

I didn't get the correlation either....requiring a medical eval for a perscription drug makes sense...so does a medical eval for a surgical procedure... Now should a lawyer come up with the rules? or should a Doctor? I would lean more toward the doctor but hey, i am neither....

TJMAC77SP
07-03-2013, 01:03 PM
I didn't get the correlation either....requiring a medical eval for a perscription drug makes sense...so does a medical eval for a surgical procedure... Now should a lawyer come up with the rules? or should a Doctor? I would lean more toward the doctor but hey, i am neither....

I was serious in my confusion. I also am always a bit miffed when elected officials use the process of making a law merely to prove a point. Use the ballot box.

USN - Retired
07-03-2013, 03:03 PM
USN,

If you want to follow in Joe's theme about intrusive government action..... What if the only way to volunteer to terminate parental rights/ legal responsibility is to be castrated?

Castration seems a bit drastic. A vasectomy might be an appropriate requirement for a man who desires to terminate his parental rights/legal responsibilities. A vasectomy might also be an appropriate requirement for a man who can not or will not pay his child support payments.

Greg
07-03-2013, 03:11 PM
I was serious in my confusion. I also am always a bit miffed when elected officials use the process of making a law merely to prove a point. Use the ballot box.

Ah yes, Senator Nina Turner. She has been on my radar for a couple of years now. She is an "up-n-comer" in Ohio politics, and I like quite a few of her ideas.

I'm just not too thrilled in the manner she goes about the state's business. I wish she would be a little less demonstrative, and thereby more productive.

Measure Man
07-03-2013, 03:21 PM
Honestly, I seriously doubt that most conservatives have a problem with the Turner bill. They probably like it (except for those conservatives with ED).

Since men should have no right to regulate and control what goes into a woman, then men shouldn't have any legal obligation to financially support any kid that comes out of a woman. If it is her body and her choice, then shouldn't it also be her own financial responsibility?

Here's an analogy to support my thought...If you give a woman a puppy and she accepts the puppy, are you then financially responsible to support that puppy? It is not a perfect analogy, but perhaps you see my point.

Here's an idea... Since we give women the right to get an abortion, we should also give men a similar right. Before a child is born, the father of that unborn child should have the right to "abort" his legal and financial obligations as a father. Of course, if the father chooses to "abort" his legal and financial obligations as a father, then he is also "aborting" all his rights as a father.

.....fair's fair, right?

(and please try to avoid the personal attacks and shaming language when/if you respond to my post)

Until men can carry a baby to term, it can never be fair.

USN - Retired
07-03-2013, 03:31 PM
Until men can carry a baby to term, it can never be fair.

Her body, her choice, her problem.

imported_WILDJOKER5
07-03-2013, 03:53 PM
Since Conservatives love regulating vaginas so much, they'll love this one... fair's fair, right? ;)

Turner’s bill would require men to submit to a psychiatric evaluation, a cardiac stress test and have a notarized letter from their sexual partner confirming their erectile dysfunction before a single Viagra or Cialis tablet can be prescribed. The bill of course is a direct and sharp jab at Republican laws that force women into undergoing unnecessary and sometimes cruel and creepy measures before they can get the abortion they are seeking. In some states it’s even become par for the course to write laws requiring a transvaginal ultrasound, essentially giving the state government the right to shove something up inside a woman all in a sycophantic quest to end all abortions everywhere.http://aattp.org/female-dem-floats-viagra-bill-to-counter-anti-contraception-legislation/

Ok, so this is syterical huh? Lets look at how far off these two scenarios are shall we?

Vigra = Promotes sexual intercourse, allows for ANY guy to be able to get it up. Provides a chance to produce another life, if not, no one dies.
Abortion = Kills a baby. Scars the whomb. Doesnt follow ensuring everyone has "Life, Liberty, and a persuit of happiness".

Please correct me if I am wrong since I have never had nor wanted an abortion, but do they put an ultra sound device up the whooha before the vaccum to make sure they are sucking out the baby? Or do they go in blind? So really, the excuse to keep the trans vag untrasound from being mandatory is to keep women ignorant to what is really inside them, since without the propaganda of telling women "Its not really a baby till its born" help them sleep better at night about their decission to kill a baby for mostly selffish reasons.

imported_WILDJOKER5
07-03-2013, 03:57 PM
Castration seems a bit drastic. A vasectomy might be an appropriate requirement for a man who desires to terminate his parental rights/legal responsibilities. A vasectomy might also be an appropriate requirement for a man who can not or will not pay his child support payments.

Can this all be flipped as well? A woman that wants to kill the baby also gets to have their tubes tide. And the woman who doesnt pay child support gets tubes timed or just a complete hysterectomy?

Banned
07-03-2013, 04:28 PM
this is good stuff.

Banned
07-03-2013, 04:28 PM
https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=637709116249032&set=a.429122320441047.103062.429101477109798&type=1&theater

TJMAC77SP
07-03-2013, 04:52 PM
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/mar/21/bob-mcdonnell/mcdonnell-says-23-states-have-ultrasound-requireme/

It's a dated article, but it lists out the types of ultrasounds required by each state. It references Virginia's attempt at an invasive ultrasound/ pre-abortion, which the invasive portion did not pass.

Here's another link for a google search.
https://www.google.com/search?q=transvaginal+ultrasound+pre+abortion&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Thanks RS. I really didn't get the ultrasound requirement thing.

Ok, now I get it.

So, the crux of the argument seems to be..."It's my body and if I want to terminate this pregnacy without the unpleasant situation of actually seeing an image of the fetus or possibly hearing a human heartbeat that is my right"

Don't get me wrong, I am pro-choice but equally glad I have never been involved in a situation requiring that decision.

It seems that there is a right of personal decision being claimed here while a desire to remain blissfully ignorant of the ramifications of that decision is being equally sought.

I am not overly surprised. I fully believe that anyone who can state without resvervation or exception an opinion on any hot-button issue is either not fully informed or not really fully cognizant of the issue they are talking about.

Banned
07-03-2013, 04:57 PM
Of course an abortion would be a pretty serious matter... it is "the largest organ in a woman's body" after all. ;)

garhkal
07-03-2013, 07:20 PM
Since Conservatives love regulating vaginas so much, they'll love this one... fair's fair, right? ;)

Turner’s bill would require men to submit to a psychiatric evaluation, a cardiac stress test and have a notarized letter from their sexual partner confirming their erectile dysfunction before a single Viagra or Cialis tablet can be prescribed. The bill of course is a direct and sharp jab at Republican laws that force women into undergoing unnecessary and sometimes cruel and creepy measures before they can get the abortion they are seeking. In some states it’s even become par for the course to write laws requiring a transvaginal ultrasound, essentially giving the state government the right to shove something up inside a woman all in a sycophantic quest to end all abortions everywhere.http://aattp.org/female-dem-floats-viagra-bill-to-counter-anti-contraception-legislation/

I am fully behind it. Personally i feel ED medication should NOT be covered by insurance.. You want to get a woodie, pay for it yourself!



Until men can carry a baby to term, it can never be fair.

Unfortunately too true. Though it does remind me of the furor raised in the film Junior with Arnie where he DOES carry a kid to term, all the womens groups (in the film) up in arms at this guy stepping over something that is a "Womans burden"..

RS6405
07-03-2013, 10:11 PM
There is no medical reason to have the ultrasound, so why impose it?

3178

USN - Retired
07-03-2013, 10:54 PM
An elective abortion is a human sacrifice. The life of the unborn child is sacrificed to the feminist goddess of personal convenience. Sacrificing the life of an unborn child is a long established ritual of the religion of feminism, and it is not our place to judge the rituals of that religion. If you oppose elective abortion, then you oppose freedom of religion.

TJMAC77SP
07-04-2013, 12:16 AM
There is no medical reason to have the ultrasound, so why impose it?

3178

I don't think the lawmakers have stated any medical reason for it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily agree with the requirement but it does raise a question about whether the right to choose is exercised in a fully informed and cognizant manner.

garhkal
07-04-2013, 08:02 PM
An elective abortion is a human sacrifice. The life of the unborn child is sacrificed to the feminist goddess of personal convenience. Sacrificing the life of an unborn child is a long established ritual of the religion of feminism, and it is not our place to judge the rituals of that religion. If you oppose elective abortion, then you oppose freedom of religion.

I actually laughed at this posting.. Wonder if joe is going to slam feminism now for its religious bent.

Banned
07-04-2013, 08:16 PM
Republican Logic 101 - a fetus is a sacred person, until it is born... then it becomes a freeloader, and should be ignored by society until its old enough to join the military.

Mcjohn1118
07-05-2013, 02:10 PM
Are there any women on these boards? I'd like to hear their opinion. Right now and I may be way off here, but it appears the only people discussing this issue here are men. We don't really have a clue on the emotional aspect women go through when deciding to abort or not. I suspect it's an easier but still emotional decision at one month versus six. Whether you believe life begins at conception or not, it's hard to imagine there are the same emotions towards a zygote versus a six month fetus that can survive outside the womb. But that's my issue...I'm not a woman so I really don't know and neither do the rest of the dudes here.

garhkal
07-05-2013, 07:23 PM
Are there any women on these boards? I'd like to hear their opinion. Right now and I may be way off here, but it appears the only people discussing this issue here are men. We don't really have a clue on the emotional aspect women go through when deciding to abort or not. I suspect it's an easier but still emotional decision at one month versus six. Whether you believe life begins at conception or not, it's hard to imagine there are the same emotions towards a zygote versus a six month fetus that can survive outside the womb. But that's my issue...I'm not a woman so I really don't know and neither do the rest of the dudes here.

I would also like to know, but why are you only seeming to care about the emotional impact on them? What of the prospective fathers? Does their feelings not count?

Mcjohn1118
07-05-2013, 07:45 PM
I would also like to know, but why are you only seeming to care about the emotional impact on them? What of the prospective fathers? Does their feelings not count?

It's not that I don't care about the men and their feelings on this. My point was that there seems to be an all male forum giving their opinions. I just would like to hear a woman's perspective.

RS6405
07-05-2013, 10:08 PM
Are there any women on these boards? I'd like to hear their opinion. Right now and I may be way off here, but it appears the only people discussing this issue here are men. We don't really have a clue on the emotional aspect women go through when deciding to abort or not. I suspect it's an easier but still emotional decision at one month versus six. Whether you believe life begins at conception or not, it's hard to imagine there are the same emotions towards a zygote versus a six month fetus that can survive outside the womb. But that's my issue...I'm not a woman so I really don't know and neither do the rest of the dudes here.

Female here. In other posts, I have let my opinions be known. Short synopsis is that I support the choice as I do not believe government shouldn't legislate morality simply because it is impossible.

I, like you, have trouble with a six month abortion. Yet, my views stem from the fact the right to choose is a fundamental right of one's own body. When a person delays the choice to a point where the fetus can be viable outside the womb, although with development delays...then the rights of the child would out weigh the rights of mother. Then I believe that the option should not be a available except if it posses a health risk to the mother.

garhkal
07-07-2013, 05:52 AM
It's not that I don't care about the men and their feelings on this. My point was that there seems to be an all male forum giving their opinions. I just would like to hear a woman's perspective.

Ahh.. started to make it sound like you were some of the feminists i have heard that feel that all men should stay out of any thing to do with a woman's body..
Not realizing that even using IVF they still need a man to procreate..

FuelShopTech
08-10-2013, 02:05 PM
Honestly, I seriously doubt that most conservatives have a problem with the Turner bill. They probably like it (except for those conservatives with ED).

Since men should have no right to regulate and control what goes into a woman, then men shouldn't have any legal obligation to financially support any kid that comes out of a woman. If it is her body and her choice, then shouldn't it also be her own financial responsibility?

Here's an analogy to support my thought...If you give a woman a puppy and she accepts the puppy, are you then financially responsible to support that puppy? It is not a perfect analogy, but perhaps you see my point.

Here's an idea... Since we give women the right to get an abortion, we should also give men a similar right. Before a child is born, the father of that unborn child should have the right to "abort" his legal and financial obligations as a father. Of course, if the father chooses to "abort" his legal and financial obligations as a father, then he is also "aborting" all his rights as a father.

.....fair's fair, right?

(and please try to avoid the personal attacks and shaming language when/if you respond to my post)

I'm female (all the doctors say so), and I agree with this message.

Sign me up for the "Men's Rights" rally.