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FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-26-2013, 04:41 AM
Just moved to a new city and noticed something strange. No longer are food servers some of the only ones in the service industry expecting tips. There are tip jars at the movie theater ticket counter, tip jars at the Ben & Jerry's cash register, and a tip jar at the pancake joint that's labeled "hostess tips." WTF with this gross sense of entitlement? Tips for just doing your Effing job? Really?

CrustySMSgt
06-26-2013, 06:43 AM
It is so refreshing to go to other countries where people are expected to do their job because it is their job, not because you tip them. Sucks when they're exposed to Americans and begon to expect it.

In some jobs, it is factored in to their wages, so they get paid less... but it has crept in to others who have jumped on the bandwagon.

The worst is when you get shitty service and they still expect a tip. Here's you're tip, "you're in the wrong line of work!"

Greg
06-26-2013, 12:24 PM
I don't let tip jars intimidate me. I look the cashier in the eyes, and give a well pronounced, "Thank you."

If I return to the establishment, and find the service exceptional, I'll leave a buck or two.

71Fish
06-26-2013, 02:26 PM
The Korean cabbies on base got into the habit (maybe they still do) of rounding up and keeping the change. I always kept track and made sure they gave me every penny back. I didn't really want the change but it was the principle of the thing. As I was told, it is an insult to tip in the Korea culture because you are essentially saying they look they could use extra help. They cab drivers don't seem to be insulted.

Pullinteeth
06-26-2013, 02:36 PM
Just moved to a new city and noticed something strange. No longer are food servers some of the only ones in the service industry expecting tips. There are tip jars at the movie theater ticket counter, tip jars at the Ben & Jerry's cash register, and a tip jar at the pancake joint that's labeled "hostess tips." WTF with this gross sense of entitlement? Tips for just doing your Effing job? Really?

Devil's advocate here....why NOT put out a tip jar? If some sucker will give you a tip just for standing there, why wouldn't you take it when chances are you are making minimum waqe?

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-26-2013, 02:40 PM
Minimum wage is what you get for an entry level job. A waitress I know make a servers wage so I tip, and tip well if service is great. A barista or ice cream scooper makes at least minimum wage. They get dick for a tip from me.

Exactly. You are already getting a wage, one which YOU accepted when you took the job. For the hostess or cashier, EXACTLY what did you do to deserve MORE than the wage you are being paid? If you're courteous (job requirement), then you get a smile and a thank you. Is that no longer good enough?

71Fish
06-26-2013, 02:41 PM
The Korean cabbies on base got into the habit (maybe they still do) of rounding up and keeping the change. I always kept track and made sure they gave me every penny back. I didn't really want the change but it was the principle of the thing. As I was told, it is an insult to tip in the Korea culture because you are essentially saying they look they could use extra help. They cab drivers don't seem to be insulted.

71Fish
06-26-2013, 02:43 PM
Devil's advocate here....why NOT put out a tip jar? If some sucker will give you a tip just for standing there, why wouldn't you take it when chances are you are making minimum waqe?

Minimum wage is what you get for an entry level job. A waitress I know make a servers wage so I tip, and tip well if service is great. A barista or ice cream scooper makes at least minimum wage. They get dick for a tip from me.

Rusty Jones
06-26-2013, 02:51 PM
Just moved to a new city and noticed something strange. No longer are food servers some of the only ones in the service industry expecting tips. There are tip jars at the movie theater ticket counter, tip jars at the Ben & Jerry's cash register, and a tip jar at the pancake joint that's labeled "hostess tips." WTF with this gross sense of entitlement? Tips for just doing your Effing job? Really?

I find it interesting how much the phrase "sense of entitlement" is being thrown around. I can only imagine how superior it must make people feel accuse others of having it.

Did any of them tell you that they "deserve" a tip? The jar is simply there. If you don't want to put anything in the tip jar, then don't do it. It's as simple as that.


It is so refreshing to go to other countries where people are expected to do their job because it is their job, not because you tip them. Sucks when they're exposed to Americans and begon to expect it.

That's because in most countries, servers are paid a wage that doesn't anticipate tips. Here in the US, servers wages are generally below minimum wage and are only enough to cover payroll deductions. In other words... servers only work for tips.


In some jobs, it is factored in to their wages, so they get paid less... but it has crept in to others who have jumped on the bandwagon.

The worst is when you get shitty service and they still expect a tip. Here's you're tip, "you're in the wrong line of work!"

The truth is, customers who tip are going to get better service. I remember when I delivered pizza part time - yes, unlike servers, pizza deliverymen are required to be paid minimum wage. But the fact that some people don't tip, and among those who do, some tip better than others... not all customers are going to be treated the same.

And if someone didn't tip, I wrote down their address and kept a list. When their order came up, the food would sit there until things slowed down enough to the point where it was the only order left to take. If I ended up being the one taking it? I would take the food right out of the leather case; and put it on the floor in front of the passenger seat and put the air conditioner on full blast. And as soon as I got to the destination, I would shake their 2 liter sodas, or even drop it once or twice if there was no one looking.

I drive taxis as my second job now, and while there's no way to screw non-tippers while providing the service, you can always refuse to take calls to certain addresses. So these non-tippers will really feel the pain when they're an hour or two late to their job, or they miss their flight, or they sit in front of the grocery store while their food spoils.

The deal is, you can put down people in professions where it's customary to tip; refuse to tip them out of principle or whatever, but in the end... you're not going to have the last laugh. They're going to win, and you're going to lose.

71Fish
06-26-2013, 03:07 PM
I find it interesting how much the phrase "sense of entitlement" is being thrown around. I can only imagine how superior it must make people feel accuse others of having it.

Did any of them tell you that they "deserve" a tip? The jar is simply there. If you don't want to put anything in the tip jar, then don't do it. It's as simple as that.



That's because in most countries, servers are paid a wage that doesn't anticipate tips. Here in the US, servers wages are generally below minimum wage and are only enough to cover payroll deductions. In other words... servers only work for tips.



The truth is, customers who tip are going to get better service. I remember when I delivered pizza part time - yes, unlike servers, pizza deliverymen are required to be paid minimum wage. But the fact that some people don't tip, and among those who do, some tip better than others... not all customers are going to be treated the same.

And if someone didn't tip, I wrote down their address and kept a list. When their order came up, the food would sit there until things slowed down enough to the point where it was the only order left to take. If I ended up being the one taking it? I would take the food right out of the leather case; and put it on the floor in front of the passenger seat and put the air conditioner on full blast. And as soon as I got to the destination, I would shake their 2 liter sodas, or even drop it once or twice if there was no one looking.

I drive taxis as my second job now, and while there's no way to screw non-tippers while providing the service, you can always refuse to take calls to certain addresses. So these non-tippers will really feel the pain when they're an hour or two late to their job, or they miss their flight, or they sit in front of the grocery store while their food spoils.

The deal is, you can put down people in professions where it's customary to tip; refuse to tip them out of principle or whatever, but in the end... you're not going to have the last laugh. They're going to win, and you're going to lose.

I'm pretty surprised to read such a progressive such as yourself discriminating based simply on an address. What parts of town do you refuse "service"?

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-26-2013, 03:23 PM
I find it interesting how much the phrase "sense of entitlement" is being thrown around. I can only imagine how superior it must make people feel accuse others of having it.

Did any of them tell you that they "deserve" a tip? The jar is simply there. If you don't want to put anything in the tip jar, then don't do it. It's as simple as that.



That's because in most countries, servers are paid a wage that doesn't anticipate tips. Here in the US, servers wages are generally below minimum wage and are only enough to cover payroll deductions. In other words... servers only work for tips.



The truth is, customers who tip are going to get better service. I remember when I delivered pizza part time - yes, unlike servers, pizza deliverymen are required to be paid minimum wage. But the fact that some people don't tip, and among those who do, some tip better than others... not all customers are going to be treated the same.

And if someone didn't tip, I wrote down their address and kept a list. When their order came up, the food would sit there until things slowed down enough to the point where it was the only order left to take. If I ended up being the one taking it? I would take the food right out of the leather case; and put it on the floor in front of the passenger seat and put the air conditioner on full blast. And as soon as I got to the destination, I would shake their 2 liter sodas, or even drop it once or twice if there was no one looking.

I drive taxis as my second job now, and while there's no way to screw non-tippers while providing the service, you can always refuse to take calls to certain addresses. So these non-tippers will really feel the pain when they're an hour or two late to their job, or they miss their flight, or they sit in front of the grocery store while their food spoils.

The deal is, you can put down people in professions where it's customary to tip; refuse to tip them out of principle or whatever, but in the end... you're not going to have the last laugh. They're going to win, and you're going to lose.

I'm a pretty good tipper, when deserved. Walking me to my Denny's table is not worthy of a tip, and neither is selling me two tickets to a lousy movie for $26.00. When these people put the tip jars out, I am quite sure they believe they are as deserving (and entitled) of a tip as a (good) waitress is.

So today it's the cashier or hostess and they MAY not expect that tip. Tomorrow the pool includes the Wallmart cashier, 7-Eleven cashier, and toll booth worker and they will expect a tip. I chalk it up to an increased "sense of entitlement" in this country, but you attribute it to other things. That's fine!

Rusty Jones
06-26-2013, 03:23 PM
I'm pretty surprised to read such a progressive such as yourself discriminating based simply on an address. What parts of town do you refuse "service"?

I never said that certain "parts of town" are full of non-tippers. You just did.

71Fish
06-26-2013, 03:26 PM
I never said that certain "parts of town" are full of non-tippers. You just did.

Spin my words however you'd like.

Rusty Jones
06-26-2013, 03:31 PM
Spin my words however you'd like.

Oh, you don't like that, do you? You tried that, and it backfired... and now you're bitching about it.

Rusty Jones
06-26-2013, 03:31 PM
When these people put the tip jars out, I am quite sure they believe they are as deserving (and entitled) of a tip as a (good) waitress is.

...and how so?

If someone wants to make an extra buck, let them. As long as they're not trying to con anyone, why knock their hustle?

Greg
06-26-2013, 03:32 PM
I find it interesting how much the phrase "sense of entitlement" is being thrown around. I can only imagine how superior it must make people feel accuse others of having it.

Did any of them tell you that they "deserve" a tip? The jar is simply there. If you don't want to put anything in the tip jar, then don't do it. It's as simple as that.

That's because in most countries, servers are paid a wage that doesn't anticipate tips. Here in the US, servers wages are generally below minimum wage and are only enough to cover payroll deductions. In other words... servers only work for tips.

The truth is, customers who tip are going to get better service. I remember when I delivered pizza part time - yes, unlike servers, pizza deliverymen are required to be paid minimum wage. But the fact that some people don't tip, and among those who do, some tip better than others... not all customers are going to be treated the same.

And if someone didn't tip, I wrote down their address and kept a list. When their order came up, the food would sit there until things slowed down enough to the point where it was the only order left to take. If I ended up being the one taking it? I would take the food right out of the leather case; and put it on the floor in front of the passenger seat and put the air conditioner on full blast. And as soon as I got to the destination, I would shake their 2 liter sodas, or even drop it once or twice if there was no one looking.

I drive taxis as my second job now, and while there's no way to screw non-tippers while providing the service, you can always refuse to take calls to certain addresses. So these non-tippers will really feel the pain when they're an hour or two late to their job, or they miss their flight, or they sit in front of the grocery store while their food spoils.

The deal is, you can put down people in professions where it's customary to tip; refuse to tip them out of principle or whatever, but in the end... you're not going to have the last laugh. They're going to win, and you're going to lose.

You sit behind a desk as your primary means of income, and then to earn a little extra, you sit behind a steering wheel. Excellent. Plus, you're resentful. Got it.
The you post on MilitaryTimes/forums the discrepancies -as you see them- of others. Nice.

Rusty Jones
06-26-2013, 03:48 PM
You sit behind a desk as your primary means of income, and then to earn a little extra, you sit behind a steering wheel. Excellent. Plus, you're resentful. Got it.
The you post on MilitaryTimes/forums the discrepancies -as you see them- of others. Nice.

Resentful? Nope, all I'm doing on my second job is whatever makes the most money. If I'm going to get more by taking one call over the other, then that's what I'm going to do.

Besides... don't be mad! Stop knocking my hustle!

Greg
06-26-2013, 03:55 PM
Resentful? Nope, all I'm doing on my second job is whatever makes the most money. If I'm going to get more by taking one call over the other, then that's what I'm going to do.

Besides... don't be mad! Stop knocking my hustle!


I have nothing against anyone putting forth effort to earn an extra buck, but messing with someone else's pizza? How do expect to stay employed if there's no return business?

Rusty Jones
06-26-2013, 04:02 PM
I have nothing against anyone putting forth effort to earn an extra buck, but messing with someone else's pizza? How do expect to stay employed if there's no return business?

That's the point. To make sure that the non-tippers are either weeded out, or they get onboard. I could care less which one happens, as long as one of them does.

And if you think that pizza deliverymen getting back at non-tippers is new? Man...

My ex-wife was a part-time server as Pizza Hut. You didn't tip her, you'd better not come in during "that time of the month" or the sauce on your pizza might be a little... "contaminated." That's in addition to the water scooped out of the toilet that you'd be drinking.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-26-2013, 04:02 PM
That's the point. To make sure that the non-tippers are either weeded out, or they get onboard. I could care less which one happens, as long as one of them does.

And if you think that pizza deliverymen getting back at non-tippers is new? Man...

My ex-wife was a part-time server as Pizza Hut. You didn't tip her, you'd better not come in during "that time of the month" or the sauce on your pizza might be a little... "contaminated." That's in addition to the water scooped out of the toilet that you'd be drinking.

Tips are for those who go Above and Beyond the minimum. For a pizza place, the owner expects their employees to MEET minimum standards, which includes providing the promised quality (warm pizza, reasonable preparation/delivery time). As an employee, it's not your right to FAIL in meeting the owner's expectations just because you aren't PERSONALLY benefiting financially over and above your mutually agreed upon wage. By intentionally delivering cold pizza you are hurting the business and should be fired, period!

71Fish
06-26-2013, 04:11 PM
Tips are for those who go Above and Beyond the minimum. For a pizza place, the owner expects their employees to MEET minimum standards, which includes providing the promised quality (warm pizza, reasonable preparation/delivery time). As an employee, it's not your right to FAIL in meeting the owner's expectations just because you aren't PERSONALLY benefiting financially over and above your mutually agreed upon wage. By intentionally delivering cold pizza you are hurting the business and should be fired, period!

Excellent point. Post of the topic award.

raustin0017
06-26-2013, 04:12 PM
Here is a tip about tipping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-qV9wVGb38

Greg
06-26-2013, 04:17 PM
That's the point. To make sure that the non-tippers are either weeded out, or they get onboard. I could care less which one happens, as long as one of them does.

And if you think that pizza deliverymen getting back at non-tippers is new? Man...

My ex-wife was a part-time server as Pizza Hut. You didn't tip her, you'd better not come in during "that time of the month" or the sauce on your pizza might be a little... "contaminated." That's in addition to the water scooped out of the toilet that you'd be drinking.

My very first job, the summer between sophomore and junior years in high school, was in a high end restaurant. A steakhouse. I'm well aware of how minimum wage, tipping, and the food industry all correlates. I have worked full-time as a delivery driver, and installer, of large appliances, and big screen TVs. I've had a couple friends work as food delivery drivers, and heard their stories.

Rusty Jones
06-26-2013, 04:22 PM
Tips are for those who go Above and Beyond the minimum. For a pizza place, the owner expects their employees to MEET minimum standards, which includes providing the promised quality (warm pizza, reasonable preparation/delivery time). As an employee, it's not your right to FAIL in meeting the owner's expectations just because you aren't PERSONALLY benefiting financially over and above your mutually agreed upon wage. By intentionally delivering cold pizza you are hurting the business and should be fired, period!

Don't be so naive. You know as well as I do... that there's the way things should be, and then there's the way things are.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: you can stiff someone in an occupation where it's customary to tip; but you're not going to get the last laugh. They are going to win, and you are going to lose.

Ever since there was a such thing as tipped professions, it has always been like that. And that's how it's always going to be.

So... don't forget to tip your pizza deliveryman!

71Fish
06-26-2013, 04:39 PM
Don't be so naive. You know as well as I do... that there's the way things should be, and then there's the way things are.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: you can stiff someone in an occupation where it's customary to tip; but you're not going to get the last laugh. They are going to win, and you are going to lose.

Ever since there was a such thing as tipped professions, it has always been like that. And that's how it's always going to be.

So... don't forget to tip your pizza deliveryman!

I don't think anyone has an aversion to tipping where it has been customarily done (except Mr. Pink), such as a waiter or waitress. Even for cab drivers and pizza delivery guys (who receive at least minimum wage), tipping is customary in those jobs and they are providing me a service. But a tip for pouring me an overpriced cup of coffee, I don't think so. They are just giving me what I asked for that I am willing to pay for, not really providing a service, that's just doing the job you were hired to do.

71Fish
06-26-2013, 04:51 PM
If you have ever been to a Cold Stones, they have this annoying song they sing when someone tips. I don't tip them just because of that damn song.

Rusty Jones
06-26-2013, 04:57 PM
I don't think anyone has an aversion to tipping where it has been customarily done (except Mr. Pink), such as a waiter or waitress. Even for cab drivers and pizza delivery guys (who receive at least minimum wage), tipping is customary in those jobs and they are providing me a service. But a tip for pouring me an overpriced cup of coffee, I don't think so. They are just giving me what I asked for that I am willing to pay for, not really providing a service, that's just doing the job you were hired to do.
Fine; and I'm not knocking someone for refusing to put money in a tip jar at Starbucks. What I DO take issue with, is people bitching about the fact that the jar is there. If you don't want to put anything in the tip jar, then don't. That tip jar isn't going to jump out and bite you.

Rusty Jones
06-26-2013, 05:14 PM
Even for cab drivers and pizza delivery guys (who receive at least minimum wage), tipping is customary in those jobs and they are providing me a service.
Just for clarification, taxi drivers generally aren't paid a wage. Typically, we lease the vehicle (where I drive, it's $75 for a 12-hour lease); and then we're responsible for our own gas ($40-$50 worth, depending on the make and model of the vehicle). You pay for all of that, and then you make profit. And you know what? There are times where you don't even make the profit. There are actually times where you lose money.

Barbers, hairdressers - even strippers - operate in a similar way. Barebers rent the chair; and strippers pay for the time and space.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-26-2013, 05:43 PM
Fine; and I'm not knocking someone for refusing to put money in a tip jar at Starbucks. What I DO take issue with, is people bitching about the fact that the jar is there. If you don't want to put anything in the tip jar, then don't. That tip jar isn't going to jump out and bite you.

The jar shouldn't be there and wouldn't be if I was the owner.

Rusty Jones
06-26-2013, 05:48 PM
The jar shouldn't be there and wouldn't be if I was the owner.

How is the jar being there hurting you? Why do you care if people other than yourself choose to give them a little extra money? What concern is it of yours?

How about this: if it bothers you so much, then don't give places with tip jars your business. Find someplace where they don't have them.

LogDog
06-26-2013, 06:36 PM
Just moved to a new city and noticed something strange. No longer are food servers some of the only ones in the service industry expecting tips. There are tip jars at the movie theater ticket counter, tip jars at the Ben & Jerry's cash register, and a tip jar at the pancake joint that's labeled "hostess tips." WTF with this gross sense of entitlement? Tips for just doing your Effing job? Really?
"TIPS" originally meant "To Ensure Prompt Service" but today that has come to mean any type of service. I'll tip where it is appropriate such as restaurants, barber shops, taxis, etc.. My tip is based upon how well of a service they provided me.

Almost all of the people I tip are employed in minimum wage jobs and the tips really help them. In many businesses, the tips are pooled and shared equally among the employees. They are expected to provide a minimum level of service but if they meet or exceed these standards and I'm pleased with them then I'll give them a tip. I once left a tip of 20 cents for a waitress who provided lousy service because the lousy tip sent her a message about her service better than no tip could do. On the other hand, I bowl at a base and civilian bowling alley and the service I receive from the snack bar personnel is great whether or not I tip. I leave them a tip simply because of the good service they provide.

If you have a problem with the "TIP JAR" then that's your problem. Try putting yourself in their shoes. They're trying to make a living and if they doing a good job, why not tip them to show your appreciation? Your tip isn't going to make or break them financially but is is simply a way of saying "Thank you."

USMC0341
06-26-2013, 09:25 PM
The jar shouldn't be there and wouldn't be if I was the owner.

The owners removed the tip jar from a place I frequent (and almost always tip generously due to service), the employees apparently had it out without owners knowledge. I still tip since they usually do a bang up job in a short timeframe for me.

Now Starbucks posses me off, I use to tip because I hate change jingling in my pocket, but after the 4th time staring at the guy while I put in a tip, without so much as a fuck off, I stopped. If someone puts a damn jar out and a customer tips and the worker doesn't have enough courtesy to say thanks, they can go fuck themselves.

garhkal
06-27-2013, 04:52 AM
Just moved to a new city and noticed something strange. No longer are food servers some of the only ones in the service industry expecting tips. There are tip jars at the movie theater ticket counter, tip jars at the Ben & Jerry's cash register, and a tip jar at the pancake joint that's labeled "hostess tips." WTF with this gross sense of entitlement? Tips for just doing your Effing job? Really?

I feel your pain. On some forums i have been lambasted for my mentality in regards to giving or not giving tips to servers ad others. To me do the base work, then it imo is not deserving of a tip. do more than just the base job, then that is when i look for giving tips.


The Korean cabbies on base got into the habit (maybe they still do) of rounding up and keeping the change. I always kept track and made sure they gave me every penny back. I didn't really want the change but it was the principle of the thing. As I was told, it is an insult to tip in the Korea culture because you are essentially saying they look they could use extra help. They cab drivers don't seem to be insulted.

Not sure which of the mid eastern countries it was i pulled into for a port visit, but we were told in our 'port brief' that do NOT under any circumstance tip at the restaurants' as it is a grave insult. I wish some of that attitude made it stateside.


I find it interesting how much the phrase "sense of entitlement" is being thrown around. I can only imagine how superior it must make people feel accuse others of having it.

Did any of them tell you that they "deserve" a tip? The jar is simply there. If you don't want to put anything in the tip jar, then don't do it. It's as simple as that.


In some way i agree, but i have had many an instance i have gotten 'evil looks' for NOT putting anything into a tip jar when i have been out somewhere and got basic service. Peer pressure like that can goad people into giving when they normally would not.


And if someone didn't tip, I wrote down their address and kept a list. When their order came up, the food would sit there until things slowed down enough to the point where it was the only order left to take. If I ended up being the one taking it? I would take the food right out of the leather case; and put it on the floor in front of the passenger seat and put the air conditioner on full blast. And as soon as I got to the destination, I would shake their 2 liter sodas, or even drop it once or twice if there was no one looking.

And with a mentality like that, do you wonder why people don't like delivery personnel? Expecting a tip or "Ill screw over your order"...


I have nothing against anyone putting forth effort to earn an extra buck, but messing with someone else's pizza? How do expect to stay employed if there's no return business?

Exactly, if i ever caught a delivery driver doing something like that, not only would i refuse to give a tip, but as soon as he left, i would report his ass to the management at his store.


That's the point. To make sure that the non-tippers are either weeded out, or they get onboard. I could care less which one happens, as long as one of them does.

And if you think that pizza deliverymen getting back at non-tippers is new? Man...

My ex-wife was a part-time server as Pizza Hut. You didn't tip her, you'd better not come in during "that time of the month" or the sauce on your pizza might be a little... "contaminated." That's in addition to the water scooped out of the toilet that you'd be drinking.

So IYO, its like the protection rackets the mob has, TIP or else!


I've said this before, and I'll say it again: you can stiff someone in an occupation where it's customary to tip; but you're not going to get the last laugh. They are going to win, and you are going to lose.

So... don't forget to tip your pizza deliveryman!

So not tipping cause of poor service, or thinking that if the service sucks, you don't need to tip is being naive?
By not ordering any pizza i AM getting the last laugh..


I once left a tip of 20 cents for a waitress who provided lousy service because the lousy tip sent her a message about her service better than no tip could do.

I've been told elsewhere, leaving only 1 cent is the worst tip you can leave, bar leaving nothing period. That flat out tells them that their service sucked so bad its not even worth giving them your 'two pennies worth" (as the saying goes)..

Rusty Jones
06-27-2013, 04:42 PM
In some way i agree, but i have had many an instance i have gotten 'evil looks' for NOT putting anything into a tip jar when i have been out somewhere and got basic service. Peer pressure like that can goad people into giving when they normally would not.

Never experienced that myself, but the choice is still yours.


And with a mentality like that, do you wonder why people don't like delivery personnel? Expecting a tip or "Ill screw over your order"...

They don't like delivery personnel, because they know what can happen when they don't tip. So my suggestion? If you don't want to tip, then go the restaurant yourself and order takeout.


Exactly, if i ever caught a delivery driver doing something like that, not only would i refuse to give a tip, but as soon as he left, i would report his ass to the management at his store.

The only problem with that, is that management has generally started out as deliverymen themselves. Jus' sayin'.


So IYO, its like the protection rackets the mob has, TIP or else!

Something like that.


So not tipping cause of poor service, or thinking that if the service sucks, you don't need to tip is being naive?

Many won't like this, but... as a man of color, I feel that I HAVE to tip regardless. Mostly to make up for the stereotype (and a pretty justified one - I delivered pizzas then, and I drive cabs now - so I'm not going to deny the truth); but also for two more reasons - if someone gives poor service because they look at me and assume that I'm not going to tip, they're actually going to feel like a real guilty ass when they DO get that tip. Secondly, it gives me more credibility if I ever have to complain to management about the service; so that it doesn't look like I'm trying to scam a refund or free stuff from them.


By not ordering any pizza i AM getting the last laugh..

When it's one less non-tipper for the deliveryman to worry about? Okay...

Pullinteeth
06-27-2013, 05:22 PM
Many won't like this, but... as a man of color, I feel that I HAVE to tip regardless. Mostly to make up for the stereotype (and a pretty justified one - I delivered pizzas then, and I drive cabs now - so I'm not going to deny the truth); but also for two more reasons - if someone gives poor service because they look at me and assume that I'm not going to tip, they're actually going to feel like a real guilty ass when they DO get that tip. Secondly, it gives me more credibility if I ever have to complain to management about the service; so that it doesn't look like I'm trying to scam a refund or free stuff from them.

I thought when you were posting under your OTHER SN, you said you were white? Anyway, don't think it is relevant to anything. I will tell you that when it comes to servers, I always tip at LEAST 10%. The reason? I was a server (HATED it) and found out that you get paid a couple of bucks an hour and taxed on that AND 10% of your sales (if credit card tips exceed 10% you get charged that too...). I worked pizza and seem to recall that the drivers made less than min wage but don't recall that for sure... Another reason to tip the person who brings your food is this...once they put in the order they have ABSOLUTELY no control over how long it takes you to get your food...unless they let it sit in the window, the cooks control the ticket times (or sometimes they lose control due to volume but I think you get the point).

Rusty Jones
06-27-2013, 05:38 PM
I thought when you were posting under your OTHER SN, you said you were white?

Yeah, I explained that when I opened up the Rusty Jones account.


Anyway, don't think it is relevant to anything. I will tell you that when it comes to servers, I always tip at LEAST 10%. The reason? I was a server (HATED it) and found out that you get paid a couple of bucks an hour and taxed on that AND 10% of your sales (if credit card tips exceed 10% you get charged that too...). I worked pizza and seem to recall that the drivers made less than min wage but don't recall that for sure... Another reason to tip the person who brings your food is this...once they put in the order they have ABSOLUTELY no control over how long it takes you to get your food...unless they let it sit in the window, the cooks control the ticket times (or sometimes they lose control due to volume but I think you get the point).

My tipping schedule is typically 10% for below standard, 15% for meeting the standard, and 20% for either exceeding the standard, or for shit service that's going to prompt me to speak with a manager - again, that's me building up my credibility, and hoping that what's coming to that server is going to outweigh the 20% tip. It's really no skin off my ass, since I always go into a restaurant with intention of paying a 20% tip anyway.

Banned
06-27-2013, 06:19 PM
Just moved to a new city and noticed something strange. No longer are food servers some of the only ones in the service industry expecting tips. There are tip jars at the movie theater ticket counter, tip jars at the Ben & Jerry's cash register, and a tip jar at the pancake joint that's labeled "hostess tips." WTF with this gross sense of entitlement? Tips for just doing your Effing job? Really?

Jobs that were once considered "entry level" jobs for teenagers are now full of older people. People are getting desperate, and will probably only continue to get more desperate as wealth concentration and labor surpluses increase.

What I find funny is how many employers are hostile to tips - especially Southern conservative ones. For example Six Flags (based out of Texas) flat out forbids their employees from accepting tips.

garhkal
06-27-2013, 08:37 PM
My tipping schedule is typically 10% for below standard, 15% for meeting the standard, and 20% for either exceeding the standard, or for shit service that's going to prompt me to speak with a manager - again, that's me building up my credibility, and hoping that what's coming to that server is going to outweigh the 20% tip. It's really no skin off my ass, since I always go into a restaurant with intention of paying a 20% tip anyway.

People are going to give me shi) for my 'scale.
First visit, unless its exemplary service, i leave no tip. IMO my coming back to that place IS my tip
2nd visit on, depending on level of service 5-15%. Never left more than 20% and that was for a REAL good level of service.

It also depends on where i am at. Somewhere like BWW or hooters when i go to watch the UFC events, i will tip more for taking up the booth/table for 3+ hrs, than i would if i was elsewhere.

Rusty Jones
06-27-2013, 08:57 PM
People are going to give me shi) for my 'scale.
First visit, unless its exemplary service, i leave no tip. IMO my coming back to that place IS my tip
2nd visit on, depending on level of service 5-15%. Never left more than 20% and that was for a REAL good level of service.

It also depends on where i am at. Somewhere like BWW or hooters when i go to watch the UFC events, i will tip more for taking up the booth/table for 3+ hrs, than i would if i was elsewhere.

Yep, and you're probably drinking toilet water or drinking soft drinks with spit or piss in it; and eating off of plates that had sweaty balls rubbed on them, among other possibilities. Your stomach, not mine.

Rusty Jones
06-27-2013, 09:00 PM
What counts as "exemplary service"? Do they have to suck your dick?

The issue I have with people who claim that they only tip in the case of "exemplary service" is that they come off as the type who will try to find reasons to not tip the server. People who never had any intent to tip in the first place.

Greg
06-27-2013, 09:04 PM
The issue I have with people who claim that they only tip in the case of "exemplary service" is that they come off as the type who will try to find reasons to not tip the server. People who never had any intent to tip in the first place.

Those that look to complain usually don't hang around long. Eventually they run out of things to complain about, and move on.

Patience, it's a virtue.

Banned
06-27-2013, 09:05 PM
The issue I have with people who claim that they only tip in the case of "exemplary service" is that they come off as the type who will try to find reasons to not tip the server. People who never had any intent to tip in the first place.

And this is the reason why I said I quit working a cash register. There's too many fucking pricks. Everybody wants to be Mitt Romney. Even a guy scraping by on $30 thousand a year still relishes the opportunity to go to a Dennies and treat the waitress like shit.

Banned
06-27-2013, 09:05 PM
The issue I have with people who claim that they only tip in the case of "exemplary service" is that they come off as the type who will try to find reasons to not tip the server. People who never had any intent to tip in the first place.

And this is the reason why I said I quit working a cash register. There's too many fucking pricks. Everybody wants to be Mitt Romney. Even a guy scraping by on $30 thousand a year still relishes the opportunity to go to a Dennies and treat the waitress like shit.

Banned
06-27-2013, 09:07 PM
What counts as "exemplary service"? Do they have to suck your dick?

Rusty Jones
06-27-2013, 09:14 PM
What counts as "exemplary service"? Do they have to suck your dick?

The issue I have with people who claim that they only tip in the case of "exemplary service" is that they come off as the type who will try to find reasons to not tip the server. People who never had any intent to tip in the first place.

Greg
06-27-2013, 09:15 PM
And this is the reason why I said I quit working a cash register. There's too many fucking pricks. Everybody wants to be Mitt Romney. Even a guy scraping by on $30 thousand a year still relishes the opportunity to go to a Dennies and treat the waitress like shit.

You must travel in some exclusive circles. I would eat at Denny's quite a bit, while on the road for Waste Mgmt. Inc., and rarely did I ever witness waitresses being treated like shit from the mostly blue collar crowd that frequented those joints.

Rusty Jones
06-27-2013, 10:22 PM
You must travel in some exclusive circles. I would eat at Denny's quite a bit, while on the road for Waste Mgmt. Inc., and rarely did I ever witness waitresses being treated like shit from the mostly blue collar crowd that frequented those joints.

That "crowd" must not consist people who think like people on MTF who refuse to tip out of some bullshit "principle." You know, the high and mighty folks who are out to teach the poor folks who work for peanuts a lesson on their "sense of entitlement."

Measure Man
06-27-2013, 10:34 PM
I tip large and often.

I used to tip the sandwich maker at the commissary until one time the supervisor was there and informed me since they are govt. employees they are prohibited from accepting tips.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-27-2013, 10:39 PM
I tip large and often.

I used to tip the sandwich maker at the commissary until one time the supervisor was there and informed me since they are govt. employees they are prohibited from accepting tips.

For those in traditional tipping positions (not cashier or hostess) I typically give 20%.

Rusty Jones
06-27-2013, 10:44 PM
Ah...so now I'm "high and mighty" for not tipping the Denny's Hostess or movie theater cashier? Here's a question, why in the world do people in these positions put the tip jar out? You walked me to a table or processed an easy transaction better than your peers? Is that the rationale?

I was talking about the actual servers.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-27-2013, 10:51 PM
That "crowd" must not consist people who think like people on MTF who refuse to tip out of some bullshit "principle." You know, the high and mighty folks who are out to teach the poor folks who work for peanuts a lesson on their "sense of entitlement."

Ah...so now I'm "high and mighty" for not tipping the Denny's Hostess or movie theater cashier? Here's a question, why in the world do people in these positions put the tip jar out? You walked me to a table or processed an easy transaction better than your peers? Is that the rationale?

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-27-2013, 10:53 PM
I tip large and often.

I used to tip the sandwich maker at the commissary until one time the supervisor was there and informed me since they are govt. employees they are prohibited from accepting tips.

For those in traditional tipping positions (not cashier or hostess) I typically give 20%. This was the point of the thread, the non-traditional tip recipients.

garhkal
06-27-2013, 11:13 PM
What counts as "exemplary service"? Do they have to suck your dick?

To me - base level service, getting me sat in a reasonable time. Having my order taken in a reasonable time, getting my food to me while still hot.
Exemplary service would be sitting me quickly/getting my order taken as soon as i sit down. checking in from time to time so i am not looking around for the waiter/waitress to ask for something.

Measure Man
06-27-2013, 11:51 PM
For those in traditional tipping positions (not cashier or hostess) I typically give 20%. This was the point of the thread, the non-traditional tip recipients.

Yes, I do some non-traditional tipping...sometimes it's more of a thank-you gift though...

- a bottle of wine for my step-daughters vice-principal when she graduated...he really went out of his way to help her over the years...

- Bottle of wine for the foreman of my house painting crew...

Or cash tips for people not everyone tips:

- the packers and movers when I PCS/move usually get a tip
- the guys that installed a new door in my house got a tip
- the guy that hand dries my car after the car wash usually gets one.

Banned
06-28-2013, 12:59 AM
You must travel in some exclusive circles. I would eat at Denny's quite a bit, while on the road for Waste Mgmt. Inc., and rarely did I ever witness waitresses being treated like shit from the mostly blue collar crowd that frequented those joints.

Let me tell you bud that such treatment becomes more obvious when you're on the receiving end of it for a while.


To me - base level service, getting me sat in a reasonable time. Having my order taken in a reasonable time, getting my food to me while still hot.
Exemplary service would be sitting me quickly/getting my order taken as soon as i sit down. checking in from time to time so i am not looking around for the waiter/waitress to ask for something.

So you're tipping (or not tipping) the waitress based on factors entirely beyond her control? Nice.

Greg
06-28-2013, 01:11 AM
Let me tell you bud that such treatment becomes more obvious when you're on the receiving end of it for a while.


Apparently you missed post #23. I also worked, part time, at a seafood restaurant while on AD in Boston, Mass.

garhkal
06-28-2013, 05:32 AM
So you're tipping (or not tipping) the waitress based on factors entirely beyond her control? Nice.

While i will admit some is not under her control (or his), a good chunk is.

Banned
06-28-2013, 05:59 AM
While i will admit some is not under her control (or his), a good chunk is.

Such as what exactly? the waitress has no control over how quickly the food is prepared, or how good it is. If its a full house, she may not even get to visit your particular table too often.

Tipping is about politeness, and the fact that that server's income is dependent on tips, as the hourly wage is almost always very low. It's not a way to "rate" how good she is at sucking up to you. Sure if you like her, or think she was extra polite, give her a bigger tip. But no tip at all is plain rude.

Juggs
06-28-2013, 12:39 PM
Such as what exactly? the waitress has no control over how quickly the food is prepared, or how good it is. If its a full house, she may not even get to visit your particular table too often.

Tipping is about politeness, and the fact that that server's income is dependent on tips, as the hourly wage is almost always very low. It's not a way to "rate" how good she is at sucking up to you. Sure if you like her, or think she was extra polite, give her a bigger tip. But no tip at all is plain rude.

Here are my factors for tipping

Is order correct? If it isnt how do they react to me mentioning it. The reaction is a big one for me.

Do they treat me with me witb respect or am I just another number.

How they interact with my kids. Do they blow them off or talk to them? Not expecting a full conversation with them because im their dad and I can barely follow their logic sometimes.

Mostly it comes down to respect and personality. I know mistakes are made and many are beyond the servers control.

Capt Alfredo
06-28-2013, 08:51 PM
Reminder to please keep this thread on topic.

Irony when this is the off-topic forum.

Capt Alfredo
06-28-2013, 09:17 PM
Off-topic forum, not off-topic thread comments.

The conversation has all at least been loosely related to tipping, which was the topic. Let's not get crazy here. It's the OFF TOPIC forum, not debating the meaning of life.

Capt Alfredo
06-28-2013, 09:58 PM
What does your statement have to do with tips? :focus

You know, more about Dick sucking exemplary service
As is being discussed in here...

What did your noting that this is the off-topic forum, not off-topic post have to do with tips? I, too, can play the meta game.

To get back on the topic at hand, I used to deliver Domino's and a small cheese pizza was $4.99, or $5.24 after taxes. Some losers would hand me $5.25 and tell me to keep the change. I insisted they get the penny back, because if you can only afford to have a small cheese pizza on a Friday night, you need the penny. I never felt the need to do anything to the pizza. I did, however, try to avoid making that run if at all possible.

Chief_KO
06-28-2013, 11:14 PM
I tipped the Airmen who gave my my blue retired ID card, I also tipped the contractor who gave me my AF civilian CAC.
I also tip the staff at the VA & and at Family Practice at my MTF.
I always tip my bartender and tip waitresses/waiters when the service and food is great.
I tip my barber...even though I'm 50% bald and still pay the same for a haircut as someone with all their hair.
What can I say...I use my "Tip Calculator" just like Morty Seinfeld. Tipping often and much torques off fellow retirees and I like that!

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-28-2013, 11:26 PM
How about this? You get a $30 bill, but use a coupon to reduce it to $20. Is your tip percentage based on the original price or the discounted price? I base it on the original bill because I don't want the server penalized for the coupon use.

Measure Man
06-29-2013, 12:03 AM
How about this? You get a $30 bill, but use a coupon to reduce it to $20. Is your tip percentage based on the original price or the discounted price? I base it on the original bill because I don't want the server penalized for the coupon use.

Yes, it should be on the original bill.

Just like the tax is, too.

Banned
06-29-2013, 12:57 AM
Bottom line... this is why I will never again work in any capacity where I depend on tips. I'm not going to make my living on having to suck up to pretentious pricks and douchebags who are "judging" me on my performance, like it's some sort of deranged blue-collar kiss ass contest.

Banned
06-29-2013, 01:07 AM
I've noticed at buffets, like golden corral, hardly anyone tips.
Perhaps because people think there are only bus boys (sexist)

Yeah, I've noticed that too - I catch myself leaving shitty tips there sometimes too, I try to tip just as I would anywhere else.

RobotChicken
06-29-2013, 02:41 AM
"I enjoy bread covered with cans!!"

garhkal
06-29-2013, 07:10 AM
How about this? You get a $30 bill, but use a coupon to reduce it to $20. Is your tip percentage based on the original price or the discounted price? I base it on the original bill because I don't want the server penalized for the coupon use.

I have heard that before, and to me it should be on the post coupon amount, just as if you got a discount (mil) via other means.


Just like the tax is, too.

Don't know where you have ate at before, but every place i have been to with a coupon/discount, the tax is on the lowered amount..


Yeah, I've noticed that too - I catch myself leaving shitty tips there sometimes too, I try to tip just as I would anywhere else.

You're supposed to tip where you get your own food?? Strange.

USMC0341
06-29-2013, 12:10 PM
I just left a great server a nice tip last night. She was attentive, friendly and new the answers to all my wife's stupid questions. Also, she was quick to see us after we were seated as well. Gave her a 28% tip (since I like whole numbers).

I guess I don't understand when joe said something to the effect of actions and personality playing a role in the type of tip one receives; I think that is what someone incurs when they are in a service field. Yes there are a lot of other factors in play, but that server is the front line defense to ensure that regardless of any circumstances that arise, the customer still has an enjoyable evening.

Banned
06-29-2013, 10:56 PM
I just left a great server a nice tip last night. She was attentive, friendly and new the answers to all my wife's stupid questions. Also, she was quick to see us after we were seated as well. Gave her a 28% tip (since I like whole numbers).

I guess I don't understand when joe said something to the effect of actions and personality playing a role in the type of tip one receives; I think that is what someone incurs when they are in a service field. Yes there are a lot of other factors in play, but that server is the front line defense to ensure that regardless of any circumstances that arise, the customer still has an enjoyable evening.

I agree - if someone's unusually nice, that means a higher tip. What I was attempting to get at is that aside from the server being a real d-bag, there should be no reason at all to tip 0%. I'm going to tip at least 15-20% - probably more than that under most circumstances. If I'm drunk, I'm tipping at least $20.

Sock Puppet
06-30-2013, 07:15 AM
Pretty 25%
Big booty 30%
Big titties 35%
Hj 40%
Bj 45%
Zj marriage

Are you ironically stupid or are you the real deal?

Banned
06-30-2013, 04:33 PM
I have heard that before, and to me it should be on the post coupon amount, just as if you got a discount (mil) via other means.

Stingy much?


You're supposed to tip where you get your own food?? Strange.

Even at Golden Corrall they still wait your table and bring you drinks.

Capt Alfredo
06-30-2013, 10:52 PM
I've heard that people are supposed to tip the maids/housekeeping when they stay at hotels. Has anyone ever done this? You can even claim this on your voucher when traveling on official business. I have never done this. I have tipped the rental car shuttle guys for hoisting my bags in and out, though.

garhkal
07-01-2013, 02:15 AM
Stingy much?


I prefer Frugal..



Even at Golden Corrall they still wait your table and bring you drinks.

Not at the ones i have been at. I always have gotten my own drinks.


I've heard that people are supposed to tip the maids/housekeeping when they stay at hotels. Has anyone ever done this? You can even claim this on your voucher when traveling on official business. I have never done this. I have tipped the rental car shuttle guys for hoisting my bags in and out, though.

Heard of it back in 97 when going to a C school out in San Diego.. Tried it, but got told by finance, any tips i decided to give were NOT claimable on the voucher.

Capt Alfredo
07-01-2013, 02:30 AM
Heard of it back in 97 when going to a C school out in San Diego.. Tried it, but got told by finance, any tips i decided to give were NOT claimable on the voucher.

Hell, there's a drop-down in DTS under non-milage expenses labeled "Baggage Tips." Not sure about other gratuities, i.e. the maids.

garhkal
07-01-2013, 04:13 AM
I don't remember DTS being available for use back then..

Pullinteeth
07-01-2013, 03:22 PM
"TIPS" originally meant "To Ensure Prompt Service" but today that has come to mean any type of service.

Wouldn't they be TEPS then?


For those in traditional tipping positions (not cashier or hostess) I typically give 20%.

Ha ha ha....little do you know. At a lot of these locations, not only are your servers being taxed by the gov on 10% of their sales regardless of actual tips, they also have to do what is called tipsharing-generally to the host/hostess, expo, and the bartender (nevermind that the bartender often makes more in tips than a server AND makes more hourly) also based on the sales so regardless of what you tip (or don't tip), the server has to tip the hostess....


How about this? You get a $30 bill, but use a coupon to reduce it to $20. Is your tip percentage based on the original price or the discounted price? I base it on the original bill because I don't want the server penalized for the coupon use.

For tax purposes (for the servers taxes not yours), it is the post-coupon that counts but I agree...I tip based on pre-coupon.

Measure Man
07-01-2013, 03:44 PM
I've heard that people are supposed to tip the maids/housekeeping when they stay at hotels. Has anyone ever done this? You can even claim this on your voucher when traveling on official business. I have never done this. I have tipped the rental car shuttle guys for hoisting my bags in and out, though.

Yes, I usually leave $5 for housekeeping.

I've claimed baggage handler tips before...don't remember ever claiming hotel tips. Incidentally, civilians can not claim baggage handler tips, only military can. I don't recall where I read that, but I found it interesting.

Rusty Jones
07-01-2013, 03:53 PM
Ha ha ha....little do you know. At a lot of these locations, not only are your servers being taxed by the gov on 10% of their sales regardless of actual tips, they also have to do what is called tipsharing-generally to the host/hostess, expo, and the bartender (nevermind that the bartender often makes more in tips than a server AND makes more hourly) also based on the sales so regardless of what you tip (or don't tip), the server has to tip the hostess....

This is very true. I had a neighbor who waitressed at Steak & Ale in Hampton, back when it was still there. She told me the story of a group of five women who were flat out rude and demanding. They would ask for small samples of every damn thing on the menu, which was really pissing off the cooks in the back. Some of them sent their meals back, and ask for replacements, etc, etc.

After all was said and done, they each left a one dollar tip when their orders came to a total of over $300.

Her manager was so upset at what went on, so after the women left; she went back and put $35 discount on the order and gave the money to the waitress - which I thought was a pretty awesome gesture, considering how it actually COST her money to wait that table.

Pullinteeth
07-01-2013, 03:56 PM
I never messed with anyone's meal but I can't vouch for any of the others....

garhkal
07-01-2013, 08:54 PM
"TIPS" originally meant "To Ensure Prompt Service" but today that has come to mean any type of service.


Logdog, where are you getting that from, that TIPS meant that?



For tax purposes (for the servers taxes not yours), it is the post-coupon that counts but I agree...I tip based on pre-coupon.


My brother who (EWWWW) works for the IRS, though you are correct for Fed income taxes, at the state level says that is dependant on state.


I never messed with anyone's meal but I can't vouch for any of the others....

With the # of people on this site, and others where we are discussing Tipping, that have stated that 'dont tip, expect to get your order f*&^ed with' is really making me consider not dining out as often as i used to.

Pullinteeth
07-08-2013, 06:56 PM
My brother who (EWWWW) works for the IRS, though you are correct for Fed income taxes, at the state level says that is dependant on state.

With the # of people on this site, and others where we are discussing Tipping, that have stated that 'dont tip, expect to get your order f*&^ed with' is really making me consider not dining out as often as i used to.

I wouldn't worry that much about it.... Think about it. How exactly are they going to KNOW that you aren't going to tip? You usually get your food BEFORE you tip right? If you are being a dickhole, then maybe you might need to worry but most servers just want you to treat them like they are human beings.... They may curse you for not leaving a tip but really at that point, there isn't anything they can do to you except trip you as you leave...


Logdog, where are you getting that from, that TIPS meant that?

Best guess? It is a poor excuse for a backronym based upon the confusion between the word insure and ensure....

Rusty Jones
07-08-2013, 07:25 PM
I wouldn't worry that much about it.... Think about it. How exactly are they going to KNOW that you aren't going to tip? You usually get your food BEFORE you tip right? If you are being a dickhole, then maybe you might need to worry but most servers just want you to treat them like they are human beings.... They may curse you for not leaving a tip but really at that point, there isn't anything they can do to you except trip you as you leave...

And that's exactly why, if you're not going to tip, you never show your face in that restaurant again. And don't think that you're in the clear if you get a different server. Servers talk. And once the server that you stiffed last time sees you, he's gonna run to the back and tell his buddies.

I know that at one restaurant where I delivered pizzas, we actually kept a list of names and addresses in the back that everyone could see. So even if you got a new deliveryman, your pizza was still going to be late and/or cold; and your 2 liter Pepsi was still going to end up on your white carpet.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-09-2013, 12:53 PM
And that's exactly why, if you're not going to tip, you never show your face in that restaurant again. And don't think that you're in the clear if you get a different server. Servers talk. And once the server that you stiffed last time sees you, he's gonna run to the back and tell his buddies.

I know that at one restaurant where I delivered pizzas, we actually kept a list of names and addresses in the back that everyone could see. So even if you got a new deliveryman, your pizza was still going to be late and/or cold; and your 2 liter Pepsi was still going to end up on your white carpet.

If I have a good reason not to tip, then I also have good reason to let everyone else know not to go there. This includes a nasty comment on Trip Advisor. Not receiving a tip is the employees fault, NOT the customer's (in most cases).

Rusty Jones
07-09-2013, 01:36 PM
If I have a good reason not to tip, then I also have good reason to let everyone else know not to go there. This includes a nasty comment on Trip Advisor. Not receiving a tip is the employees fault, NOT the customer's (in most cases).

Have you ever served tables? Delivered pizza? Drove taxis? Cut hair? Tattooed anyone?

If you had ever done any of those; you'd know that the majority of the time, getting stiffed is a result of the customer simply being cheap or poor and buying a something that he or she can't afford. And, from what I'm reading here, out of an anti-entitlement principle.

You can leave a nasty comment on Trip Advisor, but unless the majority of the comments are also negative, it's not going to matter much.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-09-2013, 01:55 PM
Have you ever served tables? Delivered pizza? Drove taxis? Cut hair? Tattooed anyone?

If you had ever done any of those; you'd know that the majority of the time, getting stiffed is a result of the customer simply being cheap or poor and buying a something that he or she can't afford. And, from what I'm reading here, out of an anti-entitlement principle.

You can leave a nasty comment on Trip Advisor, but unless the majority of the comments are also negative, it's not going to matter much.

Doesn't matter if I've worked for tips. As a customer, I tip for average to above average service, but usually around 20%. If I receive poor service, which was within that person's ability to prevent, then I don't tip. I think this has happened maybe twice in the last two years. Bottom line is that I don't tip just because that person depends on it for a living. That's not the purpose of tipping.

Rusty Jones
07-09-2013, 02:11 PM
Doesn't matter if I've worked for tips.

If you're going to speak on why someone does or doesn't get tipped in general, then it does matter. Otherwise, you don't know what you're talking about. Again, the majority of stiffing comes from people who are either too poor for the service to begin with, or are just plain cheap.


As a customer, I tip for average to above average service, but usually around 20%. If I receive poor service, which was within that person's ability to prevent, then I don't tip. I think this has happened maybe twice in the last two years. Bottom line is that I don't tip just because that person depends on it for a living. That's not the purpose of tipping.

Okay then; if you don't tip then you either don't return, or don't get mad when you get a little something extra in your food.

Pullinteeth
07-10-2013, 07:24 PM
Here you are...the federal tipped wage is... $2.13... Some states have a higher tipped wage and some don't allow for a reduction for tipped employees...

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

garhkal
07-10-2013, 08:20 PM
Nice rundown.. thanks for posting it.

Pullinteeth
07-10-2013, 09:31 PM
This is very true. I had a neighbor who waitressed at Steak & Ale in Hampton, back when it was still there. She told me the story of a group of five women who were flat out rude and demanding. They would ask for small samples of every damn thing on the menu, which was really pissing off the cooks in the back. Some of them sent their meals back, and ask for replacements, etc, etc.

After all was said and done, they each left a one dollar tip when their orders came to a total of over $300.

Her manager was so upset at what went on, so after the women left; she went back and put $35 discount on the order and gave the money to the waitress - which I thought was a pretty awesome gesture, considering how it actually COST her money to wait that table.

We used to have what were called "Boothers." They would come in right before closing, request a booth (thus the name), order the cheapest stuff on the menu-but complicate the order, hang out FOREVER and leave nothing... What made it worse is that a lot of the time they had school aged kids with 'em-what the hell are they doing at a restaurant at 11/12 at night?

E4RUMOR
07-11-2013, 08:51 AM
I find it interesting how much the phrase "sense of entitlement" is being thrown around. I can only imagine how superior it must make people feel accuse others of having it.

Did any of them tell you that they "deserve" a tip? The jar is simply there. If you don't want to put anything in the tip jar, then don't do it. It's as simple as that.



That's because in most countries, servers are paid a wage that doesn't anticipate tips. Here in the US, servers wages are generally below minimum wage and are only enough to cover payroll deductions. In other words... servers only work for tips.



The truth is, customers who tip are going to get better service. I remember when I delivered pizza part time - yes, unlike servers, pizza deliverymen are required to be paid minimum wage. But the fact that some people don't tip, and among those who do, some tip better than others... not all customers are going to be treated the same.

And if someone didn't tip, I wrote down their address and kept a list. When their order came up, the food would sit there until things slowed down enough to the point where it was the only order left to take. If I ended up being the one taking it? I would take the food right out of the leather case; and put it on the floor in front of the passenger seat and put the air conditioner on full blast. And as soon as I got to the destination, I would shake their 2 liter sodas, or even drop it once or twice if there was no one looking.

I drive taxis as my second job now, and while there's no way to screw non-tippers while providing the service, you can always refuse to take calls to certain addresses. So these non-tippers will really feel the pain when they're an hour or two late to their job, or they miss their flight, or they sit in front of the grocery store while their food spoils.

The deal is, you can put down people in professions where it's customary to tip; refuse to tip them out of principle or whatever, but in the end... you're not going to have the last laugh. They're going to win, and you're going to lose.

Here's the message I glean from this: Tip out of fear.

For the record, my wife and I ALWAYS tip. Sometimes we come up short, but we always give something.

We've tipped movers, grocery baggers, waitresses, waiters, the pizza deliver man, etc.,.

In fact, I've paid for groceries via card, and realized I had no cash. I've gone to the ATM, drawn a $20.00 Bill and went back into the store to break the change, and hunted down the bagger just to give them $5.00.

Then there's other cases where I've ordered a pizza, paid with my card over the phone, and my wife and I spent 20 minutes frantically looking around the house for any change we could find for a tip.

Ergo, I'm a little preturbed by your actions stated here. For one, it's selfish. Let me explain why: You look at it as a person being rude or cheap. But the problem lies in not knowing the person's background or the circumstances. By your logic, because of that one time they didn't have money for a tip, they shouldn't have ordered the pizza in the first place.

This clearly demonstrates your character. Most employers look for individuals to hire based upon not only their credentials, but also their people skills, and most importantly, their drive to assist in making the company as successful as possible.

If I was your boss, and I found out you did that with someone's order, I'd fire you in a heartbeat. Why? Because most good businesses know that the Customer's satisfaction comes first. The Customer is always right. The most successful corporations and business in the world abide by this principle. One bad review can cause a domino effect and bring down a business altogether. If the employee doesn't live by, and understand this principle, they are a liability.

Your own admission here dictates your work character. It's all about what's in it for you. You don't work off the premise in taking personal and professional pride in your services, and doing the right thing even when no one is looking. That means your integrity is garbage too.

Provided tips for you would be based soley out of fear that someone's food would get f*&cked with. Not your work ethic or customer service.

I'm not going to change my tipping habits based off your poor excuse or reasoning which you feel is justification.

And you are absolutely incorrect. The employee does not always win. If an employee continues to have a string of bad complaints filed against him/her after their deliveries or services, the company is going to catch a hint and give that person the boot.

Right now, I'm stationed in Okinawa, Japan. Out here it's an INSULT to tip at a Restaurant. Why? Because people here take pride in their work. The food at McDonalds looks just like the pictures in the drive-through. To give them extra money insinuates they are beneath you. They demonstrate a perfect work ethic. It's not based off money. It's based off personal pride and ethics.

Tipping is not the end-all to great customer service. My own experiences have proven this. You know what is? Interpersonal Communication Skills. If an employee has a name-tag, utilize their first name when speaking with them. This forms a subconscious familiarity between the customer and employee, and takes the business transaction to a more personal level. I've found when I speak to waitresses, waiters, store employees, etc., utilizing these skills, my customer service is exemplary. The tip is the reward for going above and beyond what's already expected in their job description and for what they are already getting paid for. However, I stimulated that service by treating them like a person, not a servant. And most employees in job fields that require interacting with customers would rather be treated like a person than be treated rudely followed by a tip.

I'm still shaking my head incredulously.... Geesh.

E4RUMOR
07-11-2013, 08:58 AM
And one last thing, I've gone to restaurants and received HEINOUS service from waitresses and waiters, and still left a little something. But that's just me. So should they still receive a tip in those cases? I think not. I just have a big heart, I reckon'.

Rusty Jones
07-11-2013, 12:21 PM
Here's the message I glean from this: Tip out of fear.

Whatever works.


For the record, my wife and I ALWAYS tip. Sometimes we come up short, but we always give something.

We've tipped movers, grocery baggers, waitresses, waiters, the pizza deliver man, etc.,.

In fact, I've paid for groceries via card, and realized I had no cash. I've gone to the ATM, drawn a $20.00 Bill and went back into the store to break the change, and hunted down the bagger just to give them $5.00.

Then there's other cases where I've ordered a pizza, paid with my card over the phone, and my wife and I spent 20 minutes frantically looking around the house for any change we could find for a tip.

As long is it's more than, "Oh, $14.79? Here's $15; keep the change," I'm good. Not that I'm saying there's a minimum amount of tip that I want; but in that situation, the only reason I got the 21 cents was because it wasn't worth it for them to wait for me to make change. Other than that, as long as there appeared to be a bona fide attempt to leave a little something extra; I'm fine.


Ergo, I'm a little preturbed by your actions stated here. For one, it's selfish. Let me explain why: You look at it as a person being rude or cheap. But the problem lies in not knowing the person's background or the circumstances. By your logic, because of that one time they didn't have money for a tip, they shouldn't have ordered the pizza in the first place.

Damned right.


This clearly demonstrates your character. Most employers look for individuals to hire based upon not only their credentials, but also their people skills, and most importantly, their drive to assist in making the company as successful as possible.

For white collar, skilled, and professional occupations? Yes. I've delivered for three pizza restaurants. In all three, I went in to apply and got hired right on the spot. You know why? Occupations like that have such a high turnover rate, that they can't afford to wait for Boy Scouts to apply.


If I was your boss, and I found out you did that with someone's order, I'd fire you in a heartbeat. Why? Because most good businesses know that the Customer's satisfaction comes first. The Customer is always right. The most successful corporations and business in the world abide by this principle. One bad review can cause a domino effect and bring down a business altogether. If the employee doesn't live by, and understand this principle, they are a liability.

First of all, no you wouldn't. If you did, you'd have no drivers because they'd ALL be doing it, and so will the drivers that you hire to replace them.

Secondly, someone who doesn't tip isn't likely to be a customer service connoiseur (sp?) anyway, at least not one that will take time out of their day to do a review.

Third, even if they did; is what they're saying outweighed by positive reviews? There isn't a single restaurant out there - not one - that doesn't have at least one negative review.


Your own admission here dictates your work character. It's all about what's in it for you. You don't work off the premise in taking personal and professional pride in your services, and doing the right thing even when no one is looking. That means your integrity is garbage too.

Maybe it is garbage. And you know something else? I don't give a fuck. I live life making and changing the rules of how I live it as I go along. Fuck integrity.

If I take on a second job, then I'm there to supplememt my income. Others are there full time, because they're trying to earn a living.


Provided tips for you would be based soley out of fear that someone's food would get f*&cked with. Not your work ethic or customer service.

You know what the funny thing is? Every time I went to a middle class neighborhood, I ALWAYS. Got tipped. The ONLY time I didn't is when I went to the poorer neighborhoods.

Trust me, customer service isn't the problem. It's cheap customers.


I'm not going to change my tipping habits based off your poor excuse or reasoning which you feel is justification.

You said you always tip anyway, so that was a pretty easy statement for you to make.


And you are absolutely incorrect. The employee does not always win. If an employee continues to have a string of bad complaints filed against him/her after their deliveries or services, the company is going to catch a hint and give that person the boot.

Oh, how clueless you are. Many managers ENCOURAGE this. The list of non-tippers we kept in the back? The manager SHOWED me that list my first day on the job. These managers came up through the ranks themselves. For servors, customers not tipping means that it's going to cost the store money in order to make up for the wages.

Don't be naive. There's the way things should be, and there's the way things are. The sooner accept that, the better off you'll be.


Right now, I'm stationed in Okinawa, Japan. Out here it's an INSULT to tip at a Restaurant. Why? Because people here take pride in their work. The food at McDonalds looks just like the pictures in the drive-through. To give them extra money insinuates they are beneath you. They demonstrate a perfect work ethic. It's not based off money. It's based off personal pride and ethics.

Tips aren't factored into their wages. THAT'S why.


Tipping is not the end-all to great customer service. My own experiences have proven this. You know what is? Interpersonal Communication Skills. If an employee has a name-tag, utilize their first name when speaking with them. This forms a subconscious familiarity between the customer and employee, and takes the business transaction to a more personal level. I've found when I speak to waitresses, waiters, store employees, etc., utilizing these skills, my customer service is exemplary. The tip is the reward for going above and beyond what's already expected in their job description and for what they are already getting paid for. However, I stimulated that service by treating them like a person, not a servant. And most employees in job fields that require interacting with customers would rather be treated like a person than be treated rudely followed by a tip.

I'm still shaking my head incredulously.... Geesh.

That's fine. If you feel someone should have to earn a tip - without the ridiculously stringent requirements that were expressed earlier in this thread - fine. But if you're cheap and not going to tip regardless, and expect the same customer service provided to those who do tip... then, even moreso than is already the case, you need to abandon idealism and embrace realism.

Pullinteeth
07-11-2013, 02:05 PM
Occupations like that have such a high turnover rate, that they can't afford to wait for Boy Scouts to apply.

First of all, no you wouldn't. If you did, you'd have no drivers because they'd ALL be doing it, and so will the drivers that you hire to replace them.

Oh, how clueless you are. Many managers ENCOURAGE this. The list of non-tippers we kept in the back? The manager SHOWED me that list my first day on the job. These managers came up through the ranks themselves. For servors, customers not tipping means that it's going to cost the store money in order to make up for the wages.

Bullshit. As someone that was a manager at a pizza delivery joint, that is absolute bullshit. You can ALWAYS find drivers. In this economy? No you can't wait for boy scouts but you can fire pretty much anyone that acts like a jackass.

I would never condone fucking with someone's food but what I WOULD do is try to balance the runs. As you said, you can make a fairly educated guess on what runs are going to tip well and which one won't. No one knows that better than the drivers themselves. If I sent them on a shitty run, they knew that I would keep a good one for them on one of their next couple of runs. The only list we kept was the neighborhoods that were off-limits.

Rusty Jones
07-11-2013, 02:35 PM
Bullshit. As someone that was a manager at a pizza delivery joint, that is absolute bullshit. You can ALWAYS find drivers. In this economy? No you can't wait for boy scouts but you can fire pretty much anyone that acts like a jackass.

You can always find drivers, but it's going to be the same thing every time. Even though drivers have to be paid minimum wage, that really only compensates for the use of their personal vehicle on the job, the wear and tear, and other things that they're subjecting their vehicle to. In the end, the tips are what the drivers are really working for.

If you fire one, you're gonna have to fire them all. Because I guarantee; they're ALL doing it. By the way, did you start out as a driver or a cook? If you were a driver, you probably did it too.


I would never condone fucking with someone's food but what I WOULD do is try to balance the runs. As you said, you can make a fairly educated guess on what runs are going to tip well and which one won't. No one knows that better than the drivers themselves. If I sent them on a shitty run, they knew that I would keep a good one for them on one of their next couple of runs. The only list we kept was the neighborhoods that were off-limits.

I had one manager that did that, and I didn't like it. And that was at last pizza restaurant that I worked at, because I switched over to driving taxis. Sure, balancing the orders is fair to the drivers... but the non-tipper doesn't get punished when you do that.

garhkal
07-11-2013, 05:37 PM
Here's the message I glean from this: Tip out of fear.


As i said earlier, he seems to feel tips are akin to a protection racket.. TIP OR ELSE.


Maybe it is garbage. And you know something else? I don't give a fuck. I live life making and changing the rules of how I live it as I go along. Fuck integrity.

As a q rusty.. If you by your own admission say F integrity, why do you feel places should hire you?

oldgrndr@
07-11-2013, 08:00 PM
You can always find drivers, but it's going to be the same thing every time. Even though drivers have to be paid minimum wage, that really only compensates for the use of their personal vehicle on the job, the wear and tear, and other things that they're subjecting their vehicle to. In the end, the tips are what the drivers are really working for.

If you fire one, you're gonna have to fire them all. Because I guarantee; they're ALL doing it. By the way, did you start out as a driver or a cook? If you were a driver, you probably did it too.


I had one manager that did that, and I didn't like it. And that was at last pizza restaurant that I worked at, because I switched over to driving taxis. Sure, balancing the orders is fair to the drivers... but the non-tipper doesn't get punished when you do that.

Wait a minute aren't you the guy hacking on others here on MTF for speaking out of turn for more people then just themselves? Hello Mr. Pot!

Rusty Jones
07-11-2013, 11:01 PM
As i said earlier, he seems to feel tips are akin to a protection racket.. TIP OR ELSE.

You may not like the way it is, but that's the way it is. Arguing with me isn't going to change a thing. Especially since I haven't delivered a pizza in over a year.


As a q rusty.. If you by your own admission say F integrity, why do you feel places should hire you?

No one needs to. I've already got two jobs. And... being a realist, you don't go very far unless you're willing put your morals aside to get the job done. It's the world we live in; one that I didn't create.

Rusty Jones
07-11-2013, 11:05 PM
Wait a minute aren't you the guy hacking on others here on MTF for speaking out of turn for more people then just themselves? Hello Mr. Pot!

You know the difference? I'm saying "they" and not "we." I'm also not including people here on MTF that haven't stated a position.

By the way, who are you?

oldgrndr@
07-12-2013, 03:57 AM
I guarantee; they're ALL doing it. By the way, did you start out as a driver or a cook? If you were a driver, you probably did it too.

This is you speaking for all delivery drivers not just yourself and/or the one's that you knew at the time that did it when you were one. That would be you trying to merge your definitions of "they" and "we" and subsequently trying to lump Pullinteeth into it as well.



You know the difference? I'm saying "they" and not "we." I'm also not including people here on MTF that haven't stated a position.

By the way, who are you? I obviously do know the difference, do you? Yes you did try to include people here on MTF as I just showed with Pullinteeth. And I am someone that worked as a dishwasher before joining. So I can figure out plenty of ways to screw with orders if I was self-entitled like you. And I got a share of tips. What I know full well that you don’t is that repeat business relies upon quality service REGARDLESS of tip. I also understand something else that you do not. 1 “oh shit” (such as what you promote doing) undoes 100 “atta boys” (which is anything to include “reasonable” service and better). So there again you tried to speak for me as a previously unstated position.

E4RUMOR
07-12-2013, 05:05 AM
Maybe it is garbage. And you know something else? I don't give a fuck. I live life making and changing the rules of how I live it as I go along. Fuck integrity.

Well this was the most important aspect to take away from everything you have said thus far. Once you discover a person does not value honesty, and operates their lifestyle based on that premise, they essentially become scum, and directly contribute to the dis functionality in our society.

Furthermore, ANYTHING you post or say here from this point forward should be treated with skepticism and temperance. A person who does not value honesty is not an honest person. That's just logical reasoning.

My wife worked at a Pizza Hut in San Diego, CA for a year and debunked every point you made, which I read to her, pretty much saying you are full of shit. You simply had piss poor managers who fostered a dishonest work atmosphere.

And more than one person here has claimed you are full of shit in one or more of your points. So, unlike your claims, this is not reality... It's life according to Rusty Jones. And one man's opinion or outlook doesn't set the parameters of reality for the rest of us.

Either way, debating with you further is illogical and a waste of time.

Rusty Jones
07-12-2013, 10:46 AM
This is you speaking for all delivery drivers not just yourself and/or the one's that you knew at the time that did it when you were one. That would be you trying to merge your definitions of "they" and "we" and subsequently trying to lump Pullinteeth into it as well.

No, it's not. I don't have imaginary friends. Do Wildman a favor and let him be a big boy.


I obviously do know the difference, do you? Yes you did try to include people here on MTF as I just showed with Pullinteeth. And I am someone that worked as a dishwasher before joining. So I can figure out plenty of ways to screw with orders if I was self-entitled like you. And I got a share of tips. What I know full well that you don’t is that repeat business relies upon quality service REGARDLESS of tip.

That's because, as a dishwasher, you can't see the customers or know who's tipping and who's not. You couldn't do anything if you wanted to, unless a server told you.

Also, you don't depend directly on the customers for the tips; you depend on the waitstaff.


also understand something else that you do not. 1 “oh shit” (such as what you promote doing) undoes 100 “atta boys” (which is anything to include “reasonable” service and better). So there again you tried to speak for me as a previously unstated position.

It's not an "oh shit" if it was done on purpose. ;-)

Rusty Jones
07-12-2013, 11:00 AM
Well this was the most important aspect to take away from everything you have said thus far. Once you discover a person does not value honesty, and operates their lifestyle based on that premise, they essentially become scum, and directly contribute to the dis functionality in our society.

Furthermore, ANYTHING you post or say here from this point forward should be treated with skepticism and temperance. A person who does not value honesty is not an honest person. That's just logical reasoning.

My wife worked at a Pizza Hut in San Diego, CA for a year and debunked every point you made, which I read to her, pretty much saying you are full of shit. You simply had piss poor managers who fostered a dishonest work atmosphere.

And more than one person here has claimed you are full of shit in one or more of your points. So, unlike your claims, this is not reality... It's life according to Rusty Jones. And one man's opinion or outlook doesn't set the parameters of reality for the rest of us.

Either way, debating with you further is illogical and a waste of time.

You have no idea what "integrity" is, do you?

You think it's synonymous with "honesty." It's not. Intregrity is the ability to stick to one's principles regardless of the cost or benefit.

Different people have different needs, and having a sense of integrity isn't always a good thing (for example, if your principles are questionable), and lacking a sense of integrity isn't necessarily a bad thing (as there may be a "greater good" that needs to entertained, where most peoples' principles would prevent them from doing what it takes to entertain that greater good).

I prefer to live life taking on EVERYTHING on case by case basis; and not having a predetermined set of rules on how I deal with things.

THAT is me saying "fuck integrity" Not honesty.

Rusty Jones
07-12-2013, 11:06 AM
Well this was the most important aspect to take away from everything you have said thus far. Once you discover a person does not value honesty, and operates their lifestyle based on that premise, they essentially become scum, and directly contribute to the dis functionality in our society.

Furthermore, ANYTHING you post or say here from this point forward should be treated with skepticism and temperance. A person who does not value honesty is not an honest person. That's just logical reasoning.

My wife worked at a Pizza Hut in San Diego, CA for a year and debunked every point you made, which I read to her, pretty much saying you are full of shit. You simply had piss poor managers who fostered a dishonest work atmosphere.

And more than one person here has claimed you are full of shit in one or more of your points. So, unlike your claims, this is not reality... It's life according to Rusty Jones. And one man's opinion or outlook doesn't set the parameters of reality for the rest of us.

Either way, debating with you further is illogical and a waste of time.

You have no idea what "integrity" is, do you?

You think it's synonymous with "honesty." It's not. Intregrity is the ability to stick to one's principles regardless of the cost or benefit.

Different people have different needs, and having a sense of integrity isn't always a good thing (for example, if your principles are questionable), and lacking a sense of integrity isn't necessarily a bad thing (as there may be a "greater good" that needs to entertained, where most peoples' principles would prevent them from doing what it takes to entertain that greater good).

I prefer to live life taking on EVERYTHING on case by case basis; and not having a predetermined set of rules on how I deal with things.

THAT is me saying "fuck integrity" Not honesty.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-12-2013, 02:08 PM
Tip:

Server at crowded Mexican restaurant immediately ready to take drink order, then back within minutes to take our food order. Checks up on us multiple times, and without us asking first, tops off drinks and asks if we want more chips. Hovers around restaurant while keeping an eye in our direction. Awesome experience!

Her reward-- 22% tip
Restaurant's reward-- we'll be back next week!


No Tip:

Ate at a not-so crowded Mexican restaurant. Wait about five minutes before waiter shows up. Takes order, makes weird face at wife as he walks away. Food takes 20 minutes before runner (not waiter) delivers food. Over next 25 minutes we ate the waiter never once checks on us, but did walk right past our table three times without looking down. Needless to say, we ran out of chips, salsa and Pepsi 10 minutes back. Waiter finally shows up after we waived him down, the asks if we want more chips. "No, I want the check. Also, why didn't you ever stop by earlier? He states, "sorry, but busy setting up for a large party (not there yet)." He then comes back with check after we wait five more minutes, but the amounts were wrong. He apologizes, then comes back with the right check.

His reward-- I stiffed him. NO tip, not even a fucking dime.
Restaurant's reward-- nasty review in Tripadvisor and a promise to never return.



Rusty- I know, I'm a dick. That waiter depends on the tips for a living and it was owed to him, regardless of his lack of skills or initiative. However, as a meany I just don't give a rat's ass about this guy, or his livelihood, or his family. Such a cruel, cruel world!

Pullinteeth
07-12-2013, 02:37 PM
Tip:

Server at crowded Mexican restaurant immediately ready to take drink order, then back within minutes to take our food order. Checks up on us multiple times, and without us asking first, tops off drinks and asks if we want more chips. Hovers around restaurant while keeping an eye in our direction. Awesome experience!

Her reward-- 22% tip
Restaurant's reward-- we'll be back next week!

No Tip:

Ate at a not-so crowded Mexican restaurant. Wait about five minutes before waiter shows up. Takes order, makes weird face at wife as he walks away. Food takes 20 minutes before runner (not waiter) delivers food. Over next 25 minutes we ate the waiter never once checks on us, but did walk right past our table three times without looking down. Needless to say, we ran out of chips, salsa and Pepsi 10 minutes back. Waiter finally shows up after we waived him down, the asks if we want more chips. "No, I want the check. Also, why didn't you ever stop by earlier? He states, "sorry, but busy setting up for a large party (not there yet)." He then comes back with check after we wait five more minutes, but the amounts were wrong. He apologizes, then comes back with the right check.

His reward-- I stiffed him. NO tip, not even a fucking dime.
Restaurant's reward-- nasty review in Tripadvisor and a promise to never return.

As you may or may not be aware, sometimes-not always but sometimes, the servers are 10 times as busy when the restaurant isn't than they are when it IS busy. Why? Depending upon the time of day they may have other tasks they have to complete in the kitchen to prep for the day or cleaning tasks for the end of the day (still don't get paid shit for it though) AND if the management is worth their salt, they don't have people working if there is no one in the restaurant-if it is early-they have them scheduled to come in later and if it is later, they cut 'em loose early.

So the kid might have been telling you the truth-at least he apologized (twice)..... Two apologies isn't worth anything to you?

Rusty Jones
07-12-2013, 08:30 PM
http://tipthepizzaguy.com/discussion/thread.php?num=13052

garhkal
07-12-2013, 11:17 PM
Tip:

Server at crowded Mexican restaurant immediately ready to take drink order, then back within minutes to take our food order. Checks up on us multiple times, and without us asking first, tops off drinks and asks if we want more chips. Hovers around restaurant while keeping an eye in our direction. Awesome experience!

Her reward-- 22% tip
Restaurant's reward-- we'll be back next week!


No Tip:

Ate at a not-so crowded Mexican restaurant. Wait about five minutes before waiter shows up. Takes order, makes weird face at wife as he walks away. Food takes 20 minutes before runner (not waiter) delivers food. Over next 25 minutes we ate the waiter never once checks on us, but did walk right past our table three times without looking down. Needless to say, we ran out of chips, salsa and Pepsi 10 minutes back. Waiter finally shows up after we waived him down, the asks if we want more chips. "No, I want the check. Also, why didn't you ever stop by earlier? He states, "sorry, but busy setting up for a large party (not there yet)." He then comes back with check after we wait five more minutes, but the amounts were wrong. He apologizes, then comes back with the right check.

His reward-- I stiffed him. NO tip, not even a fucking dime.
Restaurant's reward-- nasty review in Tripadvisor and a promise to never return.



Rusty- I know, I'm a dick. That waiter depends on the tips for a living and it was owed to him, regardless of his lack of skills or initiative. However, as a meany I just don't give a rat's ass about this guy, or his livelihood, or his family. Such a cruel, cruel world!

I'd have done the same. Though i might also have spoken to the manager as to why they are taking servers for already sat areas off to make the party zone ready.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-13-2013, 05:15 AM
As you may or may not be aware, sometimes-not always but sometimes, the servers are 10 times as busy when the restaurant isn't than they are when it IS busy. Why? Depending upon the time of day they may have other tasks they have to complete in the kitchen to prep for the day or cleaning tasks for the end of the day (still don't get paid shit for it though) AND if the management is worth their salt, they don't have people working if there is no one in the restaurant-if it is early-they have them scheduled to come in later and if it is later, they cut 'em loose early.

So the kid might have been telling you the truth-at least he apologized (twice)..... Two apologies isn't worth anything to you?

Thanks for the excuses for POOR service. Zero tip EARNED.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-13-2013, 03:00 PM
Fake users probably never tip.

The Fake User thread must be located somewhere else, but has no relevance to this topic.

Rainmaker
07-13-2013, 06:09 PM
Godfather, regardless of whether you are right or wrong, there is no purpose for your continued "fake account" comments aside from harassment.

Targeting and harassing another member is a violation of our rules. This issue should not be brought up in ANY post, thread, or forum.

We will investigate and take action against any account we have found to be an alternate or fake. If you have concerns, they should be reported to us through the proper channels.

ForumAdmin is Tak.

Rusty Jones
07-13-2013, 07:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOpubTKFJqw

What do you think of this video?

Greg
07-13-2013, 08:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOpubTKFJqw

What do you think of this video?

I didn't hear a mention on the service; lousy, so-so, or good.

I have sat down at a restaurant, and then realized I did not have as much cash as first thought. I ordered appropriately, ensuring a more than adequate tip for the server.

As far as what I thought of the video? Classy lady.

Rusty Jones
07-13-2013, 08:18 PM
I didn't hear a mention on the service; lousy, so-so, or good.

I have sat down at a restaurant, and then realized I did not have as much cash as first thought. I ordered appropriately, ensuring a more than adequate tip for the server.

As far as what I thought of the video? Classy lady.

Of course; she didn't mention the quality of service, because it didn't matter to her. She even stated in the video that there are going to be times where they don't get tips, no matter how attentive they are or how much they smile; etc, etc. Yeah, she's right; but she has absolutely no problem with it. She didn't mention the quality of service, because she knew what she was going to do, regardless.

Now, here's the thing... it's different with waiting tables and driving taxis; but one thing that I know is that with pizza delivery is that, more often than not, the customer has already determined whether or not he's going to tip - and how much that tip is going to be - long before you get there.

With driving taxis, it actually doesn't bother me as much. The argument that "if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out" doesn't apply here, because taking a taxi can be a need and not merely a want.

However, non-tippers also need to realize that on busy days; they might be waiting awhile before they get a cab; if they even get one at all. We've got nothing against them - they've got their needs. But at the same time, we've got ours.

Now as to people in the food industry fucking the with the food of non-tippers. If you've given someone the best possible service that you could, you'd be just as pissed off as the man who followed this woman out of the restaurant.

When she comes back, and you exact your revenge on her, will you be pissed when she doesn't leave the tip then?

I know I wouldn't. If I'm the waiter - or a pizza deliveryman in the case of pizza delivery - and I don't get a tip, I'm gonna make sure that the reason I didn't get the tip was because I didn't deserve it.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-13-2013, 09:49 PM
I don't know how true this is, but I've always heard that seniors and black people are notoriously bad tippers. Another issue is that some people have no clue how to figure out 15% of any particular number. She mentioned her sister waited tables, so I'm sure she had a clue.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
07-13-2013, 09:53 PM
GodFather, regardless of whether you are right or wrong, there is no purpose for your continued "fake account" comments aside from harassment.

Targeting and harassing another member is a violation of our rules. This issue should not be brought up in ANY post, thread, or forum.

We will investigate and take action against any account we have found to be an alternate or fake. If you have concerns, they should be reported to us through the proper channels.

I recommend a permanent ban for any repeat offenses, to include replacement alt names. Thank you for your assistance and keep up the great work!

sandsjames
07-13-2013, 10:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOpubTKFJqw

What do you think of this video?

I think it seems pretty stereotypical.

wildman
07-13-2013, 10:08 PM
If I want to leave a tip I will and if I don't I wont. If the server has an issue about this it's between him/her and the restaurant. If tipping is mandatory then include it in the price of the bill if not then it is strictly the customers call. If the little shit head server has an issue with this they need to find another type of employment. I like the title of this thread "DESERVE" like it's there due? BS! do your job and know some days will be good and others not but they are not entitled to Jack Shit.

Always,
Wildman

TSgt"M"
07-13-2013, 10:32 PM
My retirement home is on the St Joseph river in southern mi. Most people have boats but many (for reasons I don't know) don't have trailers. I will help most folks get thieir boat in/out of the water with my trailer, I expect a gratuity, gas, wear and tear on my jeep and trailer. I never ask for a gratuity, but I except it if offered. (Most will offer $10/20) The ones who don't offer will get my help a couple of times before I tell them to hit the rental depot for a $50 dollar half day rental. Old folks and special circumstances excluded. Some will just take advantage until you spell it out for them. I know this doesn't apply to food service but had to through my 2 cents in.

Chief_KO
07-13-2013, 10:43 PM
I don't know how true this is, but I've always heard that seniors and black people are notoriously bad tippers. Another issue is that some people have no clue how to figure out 15% of any particular number. She mentioned her sister waited tables, so I'm sure she had a clue.

After my military discount, senior discount, student discount, and coupons I often get paid to eat at most restaurants.

RobotChicken
07-14-2013, 02:48 AM
All,

As a pre-emptive measure, I would like you all to be mindful of what you say here. Remember that this is a discussion about tipping workers in service industries. Discussions of social stereotypes and other such phenomena are welcome, but these should be restricted to discussion about these phenomena, not an exhibition of them. Whatever your personal opinions, you are still expected to respect all members of this forums regardless of age, sex, ethnicity, religious view, or similar.

Thank you,

"How about being 'Handicapped'? This 'hunt and peck' is hard on the 'Beak'!!"

garhkal
07-14-2013, 06:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOpubTKFJqw

What do you think of this video?

Mouthy, disrespectful and definitely racist. It matters not the color, you leave 8 bucks on a 160+ bill, they will feel you stiffed them. And like her, i have had the waiter come out and ask what was up before when i left "Less than what they felt" they should have gotten (2.60 on a 22.40 bill).


When she comes back, and you exact your revenge on her, will you be pissed when she doesn't leave the tip then?

Or tells the manager etc..



I don't know how true this is, but I've always heard that seniors and black people are notoriously bad tippers. Another issue is that some people have no clue how to figure out 15% of any particular number. She mentioned her sister waited tables, so I'm sure she had a clue.


I have heard that those of certain ethnicity are bad tippers, but not seniors.. Most of those i know who work in the food industry say they love their older customers cause they seem to be the most respectful and consistent in tips. To not sound racist i won't say which 2 ethnicity's i have heard are the bad ones...

RobotChicken
07-14-2013, 06:59 AM
"I tip 15-20% less tax. $100 +$20 tax with good server is $20. AC...10%.(feel sorry for them)"

Rusty Jones
07-14-2013, 09:29 AM
Mouthy, disrespectful

Really? Because she's expressing the SAME attitude towards tipping as you in a few others. So what has changed, and why now?


and definitely racist.

Against who? Did she mention any particular race that she may have a problem with?

And please, don't base it on her saying that someone is racist. Because, by the same standard, so are many of the members here.


It matters not the color, you leave 8 bucks on a 160+ bill, they will feel you stiffed them. And like her, i have had the waiter come out and ask what was up before when i left "Less than what they felt" they should have gotten (2.60 on a 22.40 bill).

So which side of the fence are you on?


I have heard that those of certain ethnicity are bad tippers, but not seniors.. Most of those i know who work in the food industry say they love their older customers cause they seem to be the most respectful and consistent in tips. To not sound racist i won't say which 2 ethnicity's i have heard are the bad ones...

I always tip. In the case of bad service, the tip will be no less than 10%. It's the burden that I bear because of people like the woman in video. If I don't tip, no matter how justified I may feel in not doing it; I'd still be just another black man who doesn't tip.

garhkal
07-14-2013, 06:19 PM
Really? Because she's expressing the SAME attitude towards tipping as you in a few others. So what has changed, and why now?


Her language, her attitude.



Against who? Did she mention any particular race that she may have a problem with?

And please, don't base it on her saying that someone is racist. Because, by the same standard, so are many of the members here.

TO me that IS someone who is racist..




So which side of the fence are you on?.

Tips should not be EXPECTED, but are a sign of good service. DOn't expect to be tipped for poor service or bad behavior.

sandsjames
07-14-2013, 06:36 PM
Tips should not be EXPECTED, but are a sign of good service. DOn't expect to be tipped for poor service or bad behavior.

Exactly. If it's something that is expected, it should be added on the bill. I never tip based on quality of the food as the server has nothing to do with that. Generally, the time in between drink refills or the time it takes to get my bill once we are done eating plays a big part in how much I tip. Most of the time, the length of time it takes to get the meal is more based on how busy it is or how slow/fast the cook is. So that pretty much leaves the other little things.

E4RUMOR
07-14-2013, 10:58 PM
You have no idea what "integrity" is, do you?

You think it's synonymous with "honesty." It's not. Intregrity is the ability to stick to one's principles regardless of the cost or benefit.

Different people have different needs, and having a sense of integrity isn't always a good thing (for example, if your principles are questionable), and lacking a sense of integrity isn't necessarily a bad thing (as there may be a "greater good" that needs to entertained, where most peoples' principles would prevent them from doing what it takes to entertain that greater good).

I prefer to live life taking on EVERYTHING on case by case basis; and not having a predetermined set of rules on how I deal with things.

THAT is me saying "fuck integrity" Not honesty.

Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions. Integrity can be regarded as the opposite of hypocrisy,[1] in that integrity regards internal consistency as a virtue, and suggests that parties holding apparently conflicting values should account for the discrepancy or alter their beliefs.

The word "integrity" stems from the Latin adjective integer (whole, complete).[2] In this context, integrity is the inner sense of "wholeness" deriving from qualities such as honesty and consistency of character. As such, one may judge that others "have integrity" to the extent that they act according to the values, beliefs and principles they claim to hold.

A value system's abstraction depth and range of applicable interaction may also function as significant factors in identifying integrity due to their congruence or lack of congruence with observation. A value system may evolve over time[3] while retaining integrity if those who espouse the values account for and resolve inconsistencies.

integrity   Show IPA/ɪnˈtɛgrɪti/ Show Spelled
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: honor, uprightness
Synonyms: candor, forthrightness, goodness, honestness, honesty, honorableness, incorruptibility, incorruption, principle, probity, purity, rectitude, righteousness, sincerity, straightforwardness, virtue
[I]Antonyms: corruption, disgrace, dishonesty, dishonor


Please, continue to dig your hole even deeper. Once again, your reality and the world according to Rusty Jones. Not fact, which based off a dictionary and thesaurus definition, clearly proving you are wrong in this case.... again.

E4RUMOR
07-14-2013, 11:13 PM
As you may or may not be aware, sometimes-not always but sometimes, the servers are 10 times as busy when the restaurant isn't than they are when it IS busy. Why? Depending upon the time of day they may have other tasks they have to complete in the kitchen to prep for the day or cleaning tasks for the end of the day (still don't get paid shit for it though) AND if the management is worth their salt, they don't have people working if there is no one in the restaurant-if it is early-they have them scheduled to come in later and if it is later, they cut 'em loose early.

So the kid might have been telling you the truth-at least he apologized (twice)..... Two apologies isn't worth anything to you?

Bad business practice on the part of the Restaurant management. The Customer should always come first.

Rusty Jones
07-14-2013, 11:49 PM
Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions. Integrity can be regarded as the opposite of hypocrisy,[1] in that integrity regards internal consistency as a virtue, and suggests that parties holding apparently conflicting values should account for the discrepancy or alter their beliefs.

The word "integrity" stems from the Latin adjective integer (whole, complete).[2] In this context, integrity is the inner sense of "wholeness" deriving from qualities such as honesty and consistency of character. As such, one may judge that others "have integrity" to the extent that they act according to the values, beliefs and principles they claim to hold.

A value system's abstraction depth and range of applicable interaction may also function as significant factors in identifying integrity due to their congruence or lack of congruence with observation. A value system may evolve over time[3] while retaining integrity if those who espouse the values account for and resolve inconsistencies.

integrity   Show IPA/ɪnˈtɛgrɪti/ Show Spelled
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: honor, uprightness
Synonyms: candor, forthrightness, goodness, honestness, honesty, honorableness, incorruptibility, incorruption, principle, probity, purity, rectitude, righteousness, sincerity, straightforwardness, virtue
[I]Antonyms: corruption, disgrace, dishonesty, dishonor


Please, continue to dig your hole even deeper. Once again, your reality and the world according to Rusty Jones. Not fact, which based off a dictionary and thesaurus definition, clearly proving you are wrong in this case.... again.

Looks like you've got some selective reading problems. Let me help you out:


Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions. Integrity can be regarded as the opposite of hypocrisy,[1] in that integrity regards internal consistency as a virtue, and suggests that parties holding apparently conflicting values should account for the discrepancy or alter their beliefs.

The word "integrity" stems from the Latin adjective integer (whole, complete).[2] In this context, integrity is the inner sense of "wholeness" deriving from qualities such as honesty and consistency of character. As such, one may judge that others "have integrity" to the extent that they act according to the values, beliefs and principles they claim to hold.

A value system's abstraction depth and range of applicable interaction may also function as significant factors in identifying integrity due to their congruence or lack of congruence with observation. A value system may evolve over time[3] while retaining integrity if those who espouse the values account for and resolve inconsistencies.

integrity   Show IPA/ɪnˈtɛgrɪti/ Show Spelled
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: honor, uprightness
Synonyms: candor, forthrightness, goodness, honestness, honesty, honorableness, incorruptibility, incorruption, principle, probity, purity, rectitude, righteousness, sincerity, straightforwardness, virtue
[I]Antonyms: corruption, disgrace, dishonesty, dishonor

Looks like your own source worked against you, and your dumb ass couldn't see it.

Honesty is a mere COMPONENT of integrity. Integrity itself is the ability to stick to your principles. Do what you say you're going to do, and ensure that your actions reflect your beliefs.

Again, I don't life my life by a self-inhibiting "moral code." I take everything and act on them on a case-by-case basis, instead of having a predetermined moral code that tells me how to deal with everything. If you question my "integrity," you're not going to hurt my feelings.

Rusty Jones
07-14-2013, 11:55 PM
Her language, her attitude.

Wait a sec... so because someone that you have something against is saying it... you disagree with them? When, before, you were expressing the SAME beliefs? Now they changed because SHE is saying it too?


TO me that IS someone who is racist..

What, so someone who says that someone else is racist is racist? So that applies to both black and white, right? So if a white person here on MTF says that black person is racist, or that a certain institution is discriminatory toward whites... then that white person is racist, right?

You'd better clarify this, because if you don't... you know as well as I do, that there will be PLENTY of opportunities on MTF for me to hold you to that claim.


Tips should not be EXPECTED, but are a sign of good service. DOn't expect to be tipped for poor service or bad behavior.

Are you saying that tips shouldn't be expected for poor service, or that they shouldn't be expected at all?

E4RUMOR
07-15-2013, 02:10 AM
Looks like you've got some selective reading problems. Let me help you out:



Looks like your own source worked against you, and your dumb ass couldn't see it.

Honesty is a mere COMPONENT of integrity. Integrity itself is the ability to stick to your principles. Do what you say you're going to do, and ensure that your actions reflect your beliefs.

Again, I don't life my life by a self-inhibiting "moral code." I take everything and act on them on a case-by-case basis, instead of having a predetermined moral code that tells me how to deal with everything. If you question my "integrity," you're not going to hurt my feelings.

My purpose was to point out that stating integrity is not synonymous with honesty is flawed. You see it as a component. Fair enough. However, according to a Thesaurus, one of the synonyms, no, three synonyms are, honestness, honesty, and honorableness.

If you want to play semantics in order to justify your position, then that is your perogative.

However, to say you don't care concerning my referral to your integrity as being garbage is simply not true. I have obviously poked at something, because you remain ardent to argue about it. Furthermore, a person who doesn't care simply believes what they believe regardless of what others may think, and walks away. You don't need to justify yourself to me, or even explain where you draw your conclusions from. If you think I'm off my rocker, or have it all wrong, simply say it and go your separate way. Let me believe what I want, since you obviously know yourself better than anyone else. You wouldn't feel the need to justify yourself if you didn't give a shit.

One can also reasonably deduce from your statements that you are an Atheist. Good for you.

garhkal
07-15-2013, 05:47 AM
Wait a sec... so because someone that you have something against is saying it... you disagree with them? When, before, you were expressing the SAME beliefs? Now they changed because SHE is saying it too?


No.. Its like ID requirements for voting. i feel that people should be required to have them. But if someone gets all mouthy saying the same thing with lots of expletives and attitude, i call it like i see it.. even if they are effectively saying the same thing as me.



What, so someone who says that someone else is racist is racist? So that applies to both black and white, right? So if a white person here on MTF says that black person is racist, or that a certain institution is discriminatory toward whites... then that white person is racist, right?
Its not what she said, but HOW that makes me consider her racist.



Are you saying that tips shouldn't be expected for poor service, or that they shouldn't be expected at all?

If someone delivers poor service, they should not be expecting a tip and if they get one, they should be thankful that the customers don't hold their poor service against them.

Rusty Jones
07-15-2013, 02:31 PM
My purpose was to point out that stating integrity is not synonymous with honesty is flawed. You see it as a component. Fair enough. However, according to a Thesaurus, one of the synonyms, no, three synonyms are, honestness, honesty, and honorableness.

If you want to play semantics in order to justify your position, then that is your perogative.

However, to say you don't care concerning my referral to your integrity as being garbage is simply not true. I have obviously poked at something, because you remain ardent to argue about it. Furthermore, a person who doesn't care simply believes what they believe regardless of what others may think, and walks away. You don't need to justify yourself to me, or even explain where you draw your conclusions from. If you think I'm off my rocker, or have it all wrong, simply say it and go your separate way. Let me believe what I want, since you obviously know yourself better than anyone else. You wouldn't feel the need to justify yourself if you didn't give a shit.

One can also reasonably deduce from your statements that you are an Atheist. Good for you.

Me letting you know that integrity is not of my concern isn't me worrying about what others think. It's me ensuring that you and I aren't talking about the whole pizza delivery thing from two separate planes of discussion.

By the way, I'm not an Atheist. I'm an atheist.


No.. Its like ID requirements for voting. i feel that people should be required to have them. But if someone gets all mouthy saying the same thing with lots of expletives and attitude, i call it like i see it.. even if they are effectively saying the same thing as me.

Okay, I can agree with you there. I remember something I saw in Mobile, AL. A couple raising a huge Confederate Flag on their motorcycle - which really doesn't bother me, but then they started yelling things out loud like "Yeah, put that fucking flag UP!" - as if they were hoping to draw negative attention to themselves. Having the flag on their bike wasn't the problem, until they got loud about it.


Its not what she said, but HOW that makes me consider her racist.

Okay, but against who? She only mentioned the races of her and her friends, and the other people who were eating there. She didn't mention the race of the wait staff, the cooks, the busboy, or management. In order to say that she's racist, we would need to see her say something derogatory toward another race; correct?


If someone delivers poor service, they should not be expecting a tip and if they get one, they should be thankful that the customers don't hold their poor service against them.

You didn't answer my question. Let me ask you again: Should tips not be expected in the case of poor service, or should they not be expected at all?

Pullinteeth
07-15-2013, 02:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOpubTKFJqw

What do you think of this video?

She is an idiot....not sure how she figures the server was being racist by wanting a tip-ESP since her sister also said she should have tipped (I could be wrong but I would GUESS her sister is probably black?)... You want to see a bunch of racists in a restaurant go to the Red Lobster in Montgomery and just watch what happens to white people in there....

Rusty Jones
07-15-2013, 02:55 PM
I agree with you 100%.

But the attitude towards tipping that I see here... I was actually wondering if the attitudes might change after seeing this video. And it looks like for some, it has.

I won't lie - I've mentioned it before: it's because of blacks being known to not tip well (and even I will say this), that I feel the need to tip - no matter what the circumstance (the server could slap me in the face, and I'd probably STILL him or her). Because, no matter what the circumstance, if I don't tip; it's attributed to my race - "black people don't tip." It's a self-consciousness that garhkal doesn't have to worry about.

I remember reading a peer reviewed article in a restaurant & hospitality journal that actually discusses this, and the economic impact it actually has. Namely, that many restaurants would like to open up locations in black neighborhoods because they know that the market is there and it would serve as a boost to the community; but the problem would lie in not being able to keep waitstaff.

The article also spoke of ways to try to get the message out that they should tip - albeit in subtle ways - through the use of black media, such as Jet Magazine, or paying hip hop artist to put in their lyrics.

garhkal
07-15-2013, 08:48 PM
Okay, I can agree with you there. I remember something I saw in Mobile, AL. A couple raising a huge Confederate Flag on their motorcycle - which really doesn't bother me, but then they started yelling things out loud like "Yeah, put that fucking flag UP!" - as if they were hoping to draw negative attention to themselves. Having the flag on their bike wasn't the problem, until they got loud about it.

Glad we at least agree on this.



Okay, but against who? She only mentioned the races of her and her friends, and the other people who were eating there. She didn't mention the race of the wait staff, the cooks, the busboy, or management. In order to say that she's racist, we would need to see her say something derogatory toward another race; correct?

True she 'should have said it towards someone. Its just that to me someone consistently mentioning race in a situation where it seemed 'race' was not an issue to me IS trying to make it about race, which imo IS racist.



You didn't answer my question. Let me ask you again: Should tips not be expected in the case of poor service, or should they not be expected at all?

IMO they should not be 'expected' at all. If it is supposed to be "Mandatory", then just go ahead and include it already figured into the bill.


I remember reading a peer reviewed article in a restaurant & hospitality journal that actually discusses this, and the economic impact it actually has. Namely, that many restaurants would like to open up locations in black neighborhoods because they know that the market is there and it would serve as a boost to the community; but the problem would lie in not being able to keep waitstaff.

Do you by chance know which mag? OR if its online?

Pullinteeth
07-16-2013, 02:38 PM
I remember reading a peer reviewed article in a restaurant & hospitality journal that actually discusses this, and the economic impact it actually has. Namely, that many restaurants would like to open up locations in black neighborhoods because they know that the market is there and it would serve as a boost to the community; but the problem would lie in not being able to keep waitstaff.

Not sure if it is what you are talking about but four Chicago suburbs and the University of Illinois did a study that sounds a lot like you described-has to do with 'Retail Redlining.'

http://www.businessinsider.com/retail-redlining-in-us-is-racist-2013-4

Here is one from Cornell that found that black patrons tip on average 20% less than whites....

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1329241

Rusty Jones
07-16-2013, 04:05 PM
The peer reviewed articles I only had access to during my undergrad; as I was actually doing a paper on the restaurant industry. But, yes, this is what I'm talking about.

Of note, don't let the articles give you the impression that it has anything to do with being of lower income.

As a taxi driver; I've picked up black officers from the bases, black doctors from the hospitals, and black corporate managers from downtown to their big homes in mostly white neighborhoods - and you are EQUALLY as (un)likely to get a tip from them as you are from lower income blacks from the projects.

Occasionally, you'll get the black overtipper - one who is very self-conscious about this situation, and tries to make up for it to the extent that he can. And, just like the non-tippers, they could be from ANY economic background.

Though, I think that the poverty mindset doesn't leave those who may have grown up in it.

For example, I know a few servers who've all given me figures of AT LEAST 90%, that blacks who order steaks, order them well done. I did a little research on this, and found that this is actually due to lower income people only being able to afford the cheaper cuts of steak at the store; cuts that have to be thoroughly cooked in order to be safe to consume. But... it's about the same percentage, whether they're minimum wage earners or if they make six figures.

garhkal
07-16-2013, 06:59 PM
For example, I know a few servers who've all given me figures of AT LEAST 90%, that blacks who order steaks, order them well done. I did a little research on this, and found that this is actually due to lower income people only being able to afford the cheaper cuts of steak at the store; cuts that have to be thoroughly cooked in order to be safe to consume. But... it's about the same percentage, whether they're minimum wage earners or if they make six figures.

Wow, never knew that.

Pullinteeth
07-16-2013, 07:53 PM
For example, I know a few servers who've all given me figures of AT LEAST 90%, that blacks who order steaks, order them well done. I did a little research on this, and found that this is actually due to lower income people only being able to afford the cheaper cuts of steak at the store; cuts that have to be thoroughly cooked in order to be safe to consume. But... it's about the same percentage, whether they're minimum wage earners or if they make six figures.

Wouldn't have to by definition be one or the other? It is either due to not being able to afford good meat or it isn't...

Rusty Jones
07-16-2013, 08:04 PM
Wouldn't have to by definition be one or the other? It is either due to not being able to afford good meat or it isn't...

What I'm saying is that it's somewhat of a culture of poverty. If you grew up eating fully cooked meat - because all your family could afford was meat that HAD to be fully cooked - then you're probably going want your steaks well done, because that's all you knew growing up... even if you grew up to take on six figure salary job. Likewise, someone like that will pass this onto their children.

Pullinteeth
07-16-2013, 08:04 PM
What I'm saying is that it's somewhat of a culture of poverty. If you grew up eating fully cooked meat - because all your family could afford was meat that HAD to be fully cooked - then you're probably going want your steaks well done, because that's all you knew growing up... even if you grew up to take on six figure salary job. Likewise, someone like that will pass this onto their children.

Makes sense... Not sure it would be deliniated as clearly along racial lines then though... I know I grew up on everything being cooked well done...though I have gotten over that.

SomeRandomGuy
07-16-2013, 08:26 PM
Makes sense... Not sure it would be deliniated as clearly along racial lines then though... I know I grew up on everything being cooked well done...though I have gotten over that.

My mom is white and she always orders her steak well done (dont waste your time with the momma joke). The reason though is because she is a health inspector for the Health department. Even growing up around this I order my steak medium well. I despise it when someone burns my food and I honestly don't care if I get sick from undercooked steak. I would probably get more sick from an overcooked steak because it would make me gag.

Rusty Jones
07-16-2013, 08:39 PM
Makes sense... Not sure it would be deliniated as clearly along racial lines then though... I know I grew up on everything being cooked well done...though I have gotten over that.

Right, but I'd wager a paycheck that there isn't a stage of doneness that at least 90% of whites order.


Is this a sub thread now of what black people eat and why?

Could be.


My mom is white and she always orders her steak well done (dont waste your time with the momma joke). The reason though is because she is a health inspector for the Health department. Even growing up around this I order my steak medium well. I despise it when someone burns my food and I honestly don't care if I get sick from undercooked steak. I would probably get more sick from an overcooked steak because it would make me gag.

I grew up poor, and before I had moved out on my own, the only restaurant that I had ever eaten at (outside of fast food) was Friendly's, and I only got their burgers (well done, of course).

When I was finally out of high school and somewhat on my own (my own source of income, anyway) and went out to eat - like on dates, etc - I initially ordered my steaks well done. I thought it was dry and flavorless like that. I'm told that there are restaurants out there that can make a well done steak without making it dry - though I have yet to see it. Anyhow, I moved down to medium well, and finally down to medium. And that's how I order my steaks now.