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View Full Version : Best way to do...SAPR Training



BigBaze
06-20-2013, 09:23 AM
sounds a lot like our base Resiliency Training

Shadowless
06-20-2013, 09:28 AM
For most SAPR training is a down day or a day off, but for some of us lucky ones we get to work 8 hours before SAPR, go to SAPR for 8 hours then work another 8 hours right after.

On one...two..three...

Gooooooooooooooooo Air Foooooooooooorce!

CrustySMSgt
06-20-2013, 09:51 AM
For most SAPR training is a down day or a day off, but for some of us lucky ones we get to work 8 hours before SAPR, go to SAPR for 8 hours then work another 8 hours right after.

On one...two..three...

Gooooooooooooooooo Air Foooooooooooorce!

seriously? Your commander is scheduling you to work 24 hours straight? I find that hard to believe.

Shadowless
06-20-2013, 10:01 AM
seriously? Your commander is scheduling you to work 24 hours straight? I find that hard to believe.

Not quite, working 9 hours, get off work, have to be back in 7 hours, go to SAPR for 8 hours, then work 8 hours. So only working 16 hours straight tomorrow.

Shadowless
06-20-2013, 10:07 AM
Sounds like someone in your operational chain needs to grow a pair.

I agree, and I respectfully brought this up and was told that its been congressionally mandated that everyone MUST have this training. I'm like well you do understand that while I am dealing with the real mission I am not going to be at a 100% and will be half asleep at work right? I guess thats good enough.

CrustySMSgt
06-20-2013, 10:17 AM
Not quite, working 9 hours, get off work, have to be back in 7 hours, go to SAPR for 8 hours, then work 8 hours. So only working 16 hours straight tomorrow.

Sounds like someone in your operational chain needs to grow a pair.

Shadowless
06-20-2013, 10:19 AM
Sounds like someone in your operational chain needs to grow a pair.

I agree, and I respectfully brought this up and was told that its been congressionally mandated that everyone MUST have this training. I'm like well you do understand that while I am dealing with the real mission I am not going to be at a 100% and will be half asleep at work right? I guess thats good enough.

Shadowless
06-20-2013, 10:21 AM
I also started to speak of the required time off between work but I decided to just keep my mouth shut once someone started chiming in saying that SAPR wasn't work and that its not my fault that I can't magically fall asleep within 10 seconds of getting home. But either way, I don't know the rules or even if there are any rules since we just do what we are told.

CrustySMSgt
06-20-2013, 10:58 AM
I also started to speak of the required time off between work but I decided to just keep my mouth shut once someone started chiming in saying that SAPR wasn't work and that its not my fault that I can't magically fall asleep within 10 seconds of getting home. But either way, I don't know the rules or even if there are any rules since we just do what we are told.

Some career fields are lucky enough to have rules in writing. Mine says I can't schedule anyone to work more than 12 consecutive hours. I don't give a hoot what anyone says, if you're required to be somewhere in uniform for 8 hours, you're at work!

technomage1
06-20-2013, 11:27 AM
I always thought anyone who has ever been sexually assaulted should be excused from these kind of things. Any victim of a crime will tell you they relive that crime a lot. I can't imagine if I was sexually assaulted and having to attend this with my coworkers and relive the attack. I've got to think it would all come back.

Something management should probably consider....

RFScott
06-20-2013, 11:47 AM
I also started to speak of the required time off between work but I decided to just keep my mouth shut once someone started chiming in saying that SAPR wasn't work and that its not my fault that I can't magically fall asleep within 10 seconds of getting home. But either way, I don't know the rules or even if there are any rules since we just do what we are told.

I take it you are working swing shifts? This kind of thing used to happen to me too. I would work a swing, then have to be back at work by 6:30 the next morning to be in for PT and other nonsense like this, then back to another swing...

Did they make a new SAPR requirement in light of recent developments? I never attended anything this long, BIT had just been introduced before I got out and that was about 90 mins.

Shadowless
06-20-2013, 12:06 PM
I take it you are working swing shifts? This kind of thing used to happen to me too. I would work a swing, then have to be back at work by 6:30 the next morning to be in for PT and other nonsense like this, then back to another swing...

Did they make a new SAPR requirement in light of recent developments? I never attended anything this long, BIT had just been introduced before I got out and that was about 90 mins.

You are correct, and I know what your job was and where you probebly were so yes its bullshit and they wonder why certain career fields are undermanned. My supervisor was like "this training sucks for all of us" and I replied "yeah but you are working 7-4 anyways right" didn't get a reply after that.

I don't know why our leadership allows this to happen, I don't know if they are spineless or cowards or what...

I'm not sure about the new SAPR requirements and sadly I don't give a crap either. I am not going to rap or do anything to another person because I have this thing called 'respect' and I am an adult, but I have been in the military long enough to realize we are all children and will be treated like childern and in most cases act like children because of it.

Why did you get out?

Shadowless
06-20-2013, 12:19 PM
Burned out man.....just couldn't deal with the bullshit anymore. Is this the SAPR training for NCO/SNCOs? Or is everyone required to do this eight hour thing nowadays?

I think its required, I just found out about it today when I got on shift. Just shows you how well managed this is. But once again, our 'leaders' are clueless and spineless just trying to cover their asses.

Shadowless
06-20-2013, 12:19 PM
Burned out man.....just couldn't deal with the bullshit anymore. Is this the SAPR training for NCO/SNCOs? Or is everyone required to do this eight hour thing nowadays?

I think its required, I just found out about it today when I got on shift. Just shows you how well managed this is. But once again, our 'leaders' are clueless and spineless just trying to cover their asses.

RFScott
06-20-2013, 12:29 PM
You are correct, and I know what your job was and where you probebly were so yes its bullshit and they wonder why certain career fields are undermanned. My supervisor was like "this training sucks for all of us" and I replied "yeah but you are working 7-4 anyways right" didn't get a reply after that.

I don't know why our leadership allows this to happen, I don't know if they are spineless or cowards or what...

I'm not sure about the new SAPR requirements and sadly I don't give a crap either. I am not going to rap or do anything to another person because I have this thing called 'respect' and I am an adult, but I have been in the military long enough to realize we are all children and will be treated like childern and in most cases act like children because of it.

Why did you get out?

Burned out man.....just couldn't deal with the bullshit anymore. Is this the SAPR training for NCO/SNCOs? Or is everyone required to do this eight hour thing nowadays?

20+Years
06-20-2013, 12:32 PM
Crap. Just notified Monday is an ENTIRE day of SAPR briefings. Dammit.

Well, at least 8 more hrs of briefings will solve this issue. //sarcasm off//

DWWSWWD
06-20-2013, 01:15 PM
Sounds like someone in your operational chain needs to grow a pair. Mine did. We have been scheduled for a family day on 5 July. We got the word that the family day was out and we were doing SAPR standown. I've got 125 TDY folks that are planning to go see Momma over the 4 day weekend. Family day is back on. Great decision. It took the 4-star to make it but still.

technomage1
06-20-2013, 01:52 PM
Mine did. We have been scheduled for a family day on 5 July. We got the word that the family day was out and we were doing SAPR standown. I've got 125 TDY folks that are planning to go see Momma over the 4 day weekend. Family day is back on. Great decision. It took the 4-star to make it but still.

I can't believe it took a 4 star to make that decision. Seriously, this perfectly illustrates why I've started refering to the higher ups as management and not leadership.

DWWSWWD
06-20-2013, 01:59 PM
I can't believe it took a 4 star to make that decision. Seriously, this perfectly illustrates why I've started refering to the higher ups as management and not leadership. To be fair, it was directed by the SecDef. With many AETC units being geographically separated from one another and the impact to thousands of TDY students, it makes sense for everyone to be on the same page. The only way to do that is for the decision to come from AETC/CC.

Drackore
06-20-2013, 02:45 PM
What dumbfuck son of a bitch said SAPR isn't work?!? In fact, show this to the idiot and tell them that a SNCO called them a dumbfuck son of a bitch.


I also started to speak of the required time off between work but I decided to just keep my mouth shut once someone started chiming in saying that SAPR wasn't work and that its not my fault that I can't magically fall asleep within 10 seconds of getting home. But either way, I don't know the rules or even if there are any rules since we just do what we are told.

Pullinteeth
06-20-2013, 03:42 PM
So....now you have to go to a couple of hours of SARC training and an entire day of SAPR training because some people can't act like grown ups and some Commanders refuse to hold them responsible for acting like jackasses... I get it that this is a problem. I get it that it destroys lives and these douchebags should be weeded out. What I don't get is why everyone has to suffer. That Airman in FL killed her boyfriend, did we have a day of briefings on why murder is bad and what you should do if someone is killing someone? There are hundreds of military personnel that maltreat their kids...do we have a day of briefings on why it is bad to starve your kids and make them live in filth? Suicide is still an issue in the DoD, do we have days of briefings on that? DUIs are still a problem....days of briefings? All of these issues have and continue to result in deaths yet they are seemingly no longer a priority and sexual assault is the TOP priority. Why? Whose idea was it that briefing after briefing would get a douchebag to not be a douchebag anymore? Probably the same guy that told the last CSAF that his letter to the field saved lives and completely solved problems....

technomage1
06-20-2013, 04:51 PM
So....now you have to go to a couple of hours of SARC training and an entire day of SAPR training because some people can't act like grown ups and some Commanders refuse to hold them responsible for acting like jackasses... I get it that this is a problem. I get it that it destroys lives and these douchebags should be weeded out. What I don't get is why everyone has to suffer. That Airman in FL killed her boyfriend, did we have a day of briefings on why murder is bad and what you should do if someone is killing someone? There are hundreds of military personnel that maltreat their kids...do we have a day of briefings on why it is bad to starve your kids and make them live in filth? Suicide is still an issue in the DoD, do we have days of briefings on that? DUIs are still a problem....days of briefings? All of these issues have and continue to result in deaths yet they are seemingly no longer a priority and sexual assault is the TOP priority. Why? Whose idea was it that briefing after briefing would get a douchebag to not be a douchebag anymore? Probably the same guy that told the last CSAF that his letter to the field saved lives and completely solved problems....

...and if recent history is any indication, the Lt Col doing the briefing is more likely to be the predator anyway....

WeaponsTSGT
06-21-2013, 01:41 AM
This is just a guess.....but I'd be willing to bet that you can't brief the rapeyness out of a person. It's along the same lines as other extreme criminal activities, if the threat of prison and possible execution isn't going to deter someone, then all the briefings in the world aren't going to make them change their mind.

Monkey
06-21-2013, 07:43 AM
This is just a guess.....but I'd be willing to bet that you can't brief the rapeyness out of a person. It's along the same lines as other extreme criminal activities, if the threat of prison and possible execution isn't going to deter someone, then all the briefings in the world aren't going to make them change their mind.

Agreed, but what you can do is prevent "questionable" crimes. Example: currently the DoD considers having consensual sex while under the influence of alcohol to be rape (one cannot give consent while impaired). While in the civilian world these cases of rape are virtually unheard of, the AF will use standard witch-hunting to find and prosecute these cases. If you explain it enough times to everybody, and use inflated stats to back it up, eventually people will stop taking chances and choose to abstain.

I consider this training to be an opportunity to save people from doing something they thought was harmless and paying an awful price for it.

Shadowless
06-21-2013, 08:36 AM
Agreed, but what you can do is prevent "questionable" crimes. Example: currently the DoD considers having consensual sex while under the influence of alcohol to be rape (one cannot give consent while impaired). While in the civilian world these cases of rape are virtually unheard of, the AF will use standard witch-hunting to find and prosecute these cases. If you explain it enough times to everybody, and use inflated stats to back it up, eventually people will stop taking chances and choose to abstain.

I consider this training to be an opportunity to save people from doing something they thought was harmless and paying an awful price for it.

I consider this training to be a slap in the face. So if someone has one drink and we have sex, that means I rapped them?

Monkey
06-21-2013, 09:10 AM
I consider this training to be a slap in the face. So if someone has one drink and we have sex, that means I rapped them?

No. You r-a-p-e-d them.

Shadowless
06-21-2013, 10:09 AM
No. You r-a-p-e-d them.

Rapped sounds better though. The military is turning into a bigger joke then it already is. What if a girl has one sip of beer, does that mean I R-A-P-E-D her? hahahah what a laughing matter.

Monkey
06-21-2013, 10:44 AM
Rapped sounds better though. The military is turning into a bigger joke then it already is. What if a girl has one sip of beer, does that mean I R-A-P-E-D her? hahahah what a laughing matter.

Yes, it does.

Shadowless
06-21-2013, 01:02 PM
Yes, it does.

What if I meet a girl who is drinking a water with lemon..does that mean I raped her too?

Class5Kayaker
06-21-2013, 01:10 PM
On top of the whole "She had a drink, she can't consent" rule, the other awesome (sarcasm) rule is that people who are sexually assaulted can now PCS to get away from their alleged attacker. I predict an uptick in reported sexual asaults in places like Cannon , Malmstrom, Minot, etc.

SINGLE GUYS BEWARE!!!!! (seriously)

Zxc
06-21-2013, 01:26 PM
What if I meet a girl who is drinking a water with lemon..does that mean I raped her too?

It absolutely does unless you have a signed copy of your AF FORM 4369, Authorization of Sexual Consent

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_se/form/af4369/af4369.xfdl

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-21-2013, 02:28 PM
I consider this training to be a slap in the face. So if someone has one drink and we have sex, that means I rapped them?

Just stick to oral sex when drunk. Just be warned, that if you are caught with your ding-a-ling in her mouth, then you will be charged with sexual assault and will go to prison. For you fellow officers, expect to do at least a few days in prison before a GO gets around to overturning your conviction. The admin process takes a day or two so just be patient.

Pullinteeth
06-21-2013, 03:44 PM
Agreed, but what you can do is prevent "questionable" crimes. Example: currently the DoD considers having consensual sex while under the influence of alcohol to be rape (A FEMALE cannot give consent while impaired). While in the civilian world these cases of rape are virtually unheard of, the AF will use standard witch-hunting to find and prosecute these cases. If you explain it enough times to everybody, and use inflated stats to back it up, eventually people will stop taking chances and choose to abstain.

I consider this training to be an opportunity to save people from doing something they thought was harmless and paying an awful price for it.


There you go...fixed it for ya!

RetC141BFCC
06-21-2013, 05:08 PM
So every time I got drunk and with home with let’s say a weight challenged woman See I am being politically correct did not call them fat. Does that mean SHE RAPED me? I never would have had sex with her if I was sober. So I guess I was raped

RetC141BFCC
06-21-2013, 05:09 PM
That what I was wondering. Could you counter charge her?

Pullinteeth
06-21-2013, 05:17 PM
So every time I got drunk and with home with let’s say a weight challenged woman See I am being politically correct did not call them fat. Does that mean SHE RAPED me? I never would have had sex with her if I was sober. So I guess I was raped

I wonder if you could use that as a defense? "We were both drunk but look how ugly she is...I wouldn't hit that sober....she raped ME."

RetC141BFCC
06-21-2013, 05:22 PM
That what I was wondering. Could you counter charge her?

Roto
06-21-2013, 06:07 PM
I wonder if you could use that as a defense? "We were both drunk but look how ugly she is...I wouldn't hit that sober....she raped ME."

Heh.. Give it a shot. Due to double standards though, good luck getting many people to agree with you.

imported_DannyJ
06-21-2013, 06:55 PM
So every time I got drunk and with home with let’s say a weight challenged woman See I am being politically correct did not call them fat. Does that mean SHE RAPED me? I never would have had sex with her if I was sober. So I guess I was raped

Seems legit.

Pullinteeth
06-22-2013, 01:32 AM
Heh.. Give it a shot. Due to double standards though, good luck getting many people to agree with you.

The SARC here says that it is all in who reports it first. You are drunk and go whaleing....all good. If the whale reports it first, you ar GUILTY. You report it first, SHE is the rapist.... How often does THAT happen?

Bkral93
06-24-2013, 01:00 AM
My squadron made the work day into the training. Even had SAPR related trivia in our PT run, pretty ridiculous.

loggie94
06-24-2013, 05:36 AM
My squadron made the work day into the training. Even had SAPR related trivia in our PT run, pretty ridiculous.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little imagining that. Ridiculous isn't strong enough of a word....

Drackore
06-24-2013, 11:49 AM
Start off your SAPR training with a joke!

Joke teller) Knock Knock...

Receipient) Who's th......

Joke teller) Just Kidding...forced entry!