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View Full Version : CNO launches attack on Sailor busy work



BURAWSKI
06-18-2013, 02:51 PM
http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130618/NEWS/306180010/CNO-launches-attack-sailor-busy-work


http://cmsimg.navytimes.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=M6&Date=20130618&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=306180010&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&CNO-launches-attack-sailor-busy-work

Are you kidding me? I thought this article was ironic having spent 25 years in the Navy in the administrative field. I've seen so many of these type of initiatives work in cycles. I remember seeing something about this along the same lines around 1986 when Admiral Boorda was Chief of Naval Personnel. He was publicizing an initiative to reduce paperwork as well, but it never went anywhere. This looks to be like the same thing. Let me lay down a reality check here: The only way to get serious about reducing all of the papework is not by forming a committee, but by reducing all of the unnecessary programs, which means cutting out or downsizing some of the many inordinate number of staffs that support admirals (i.e., drastically reduce the number of General Officers). The large, overextended bureacracy is what generates all of this unneeded paperwork. Unfortunately people, this ain't gonna happen. In other words, that dog don't hunt. I'm sure most, if not all, of the comments that Navy Times receives on this will be in agreement.


B. M. BURAWSKI
Chief Yeoman, U.S. Navy (Ret.)

Vrake
06-18-2013, 03:22 PM
Dead on Great post!

As long as they keep popping up with last minute hot training (SAPR anyone) items and what ever else is the emergency of the week mindless taskers will never go away. The requirement to ensure all the training is done and reported the way they want would use this new "task force" they came up with.

Just another feel good " neh neh there we did it"

CaliMC
06-18-2013, 08:04 PM
This, on the heels of a moronic inspection of every space looking for offensive material. And each command has to report completion of this inspection. Sorry, this isn't 1985 anymore. Another thing I find ironic is the CNO appointed the Head Nuke to spearhead this effort! Is there another community more obsessed with paperwork than nukes?

Got to go. Headed to mandatory SAPR stand down. Want to ensure my attendance is recorded and reported to higher authority as directed...

Measure Man
06-18-2013, 08:19 PM
only[/U] way to get serious about reducing all of the papework is not by forming a committee, but by reducing all of the unnecessary programs, which means cutting out some rice bowels and empires (i.e., drastically reduce the number of General Officers).

Rice bowels??

Rusty Jones
06-18-2013, 08:31 PM
A few things things you can do:

Get rid of PQS. The Navy is the only service that has it, while members of other services simply get trained on a piece of equipment and then start operating it. Marines don't need a PQS to fire an M9. Someone simply shows them how to use it, and then they use it.

PQS is simply a CYA tool. Just like the majority of paperwork. Make the Navy less of a CYA environment, and LOTS of paperwork can be done any with.

I think 3M may constitute the lion's share of paperwork that the Fleet could do without. Why should the administration behind the maintenance take up more man hours than the maintenance itself?

Stalwart
06-18-2013, 09:19 PM
Get rid of PQS. The Navy is the only service that has it, while members of other services simply get trained on a piece of equipment and then start operating it. Marines don't need a PQS to fire an M9. Someone simply shows them how to use it, and then they use it.

It was ironic that after 12 years as a Marine Infantryman, I had to do a computer based course and PQS to be considered 'safe' to fire an M-16 or M9.

JoeMorgue
06-19-2013, 07:34 PM
Rice bowels??

"Rice Bowling" is the habit of hording information about how your job is performed in to inflate either your actual importance or your perceived importance. Basically it's the art of wedging yourself into a job and then keeping all the information about it to yourself so no one can now how your job is actually done so they can't judge you based on how well you're actually doing it. By doing this one can present the impression that a mind numbingly simple job is amazingly difficult.

I think the fact that the Navy stood up a task force headed by a two star that no doubt has several dozen people working for him... to answer the question as to why the Navy has too much paperwork is all the answer we really need.

CaliMC
06-25-2013, 07:43 PM
"Rice Bowling" is the habit of hording information about how your job is performed in to inflate either your actual importance or your perceived importance. Basically it's the art of wedging yourself into a job and then keeping all the information about it to yourself so no one can now how your job is actually done so they can't judge you based on how well you're actually doing it. By doing this one can present the impression that a mind numbingly simple job is amazingly difficult.

I think the fact that the Navy stood up a task force headed by a two star that no doubt has several dozen people working for him... to answer the question as to why the Navy has too much paperwork is all the answer we really need.

Joe, I think he was commenting on the misspelling (bowel vice bowl)...

BURAWSKI
06-25-2013, 11:50 PM
Joe, I think he was commenting on the misspelling (bowel vice bowl)...

Yes, you are correct. I did make a mistake which is the reason I changed that sentence. But hey, stuff happens. Bowl – a round, deep dish used for food or liquid.
Bowel - The part of the alimentary canal below the stomach; the intestine.

RobotChicken
06-25-2013, 11:54 PM
" We still respect you Chief!!" 'RC.' ($h*t happens)

4CECMC
06-29-2013, 03:05 AM
Want to get rid of "busy work" then give the Sailors the resources they absolutely have to have in order to maintain their ships, attend required schools and quit overwhelming them with time consuming and insignificant emergent training events, (SAPR/DADT, etc...). You ask any DESRON Commander, (off the record of course) what his/her greatest challenge is and I bet you hear them echo similar thoughts. If you don't think the CSG, TYCOM and Commander is aware of these issues then you are mistaken. Walk the water front in S.D. and NORVA and you'll see clear signs of these problems not only on the QD but deep in the main spaces. The resources spent on researching and outfitting the Fleet with an unsat working uniform, developing and implementing these training events and inundating the Fleet with minutia continues to take it's toll. You want a happy Sailor? Give him/her the tools they need to safely and efficiently take their unit into harms way with unmatched confidence and watch morale and combat efficiency take off!

Pullinteeth
07-15-2013, 04:59 PM
Would you consider sending military members in uniform to babysit single sailors "busy work?"

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130714/NEWS05/307140012/Military-works-change-culture-combat-rape

Greg
07-15-2013, 06:18 PM
Would you consider sending military members in uniform to babysit single sailors "busy work?"

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130714/NEWS05/307140012/Military-works-change-culture-combat-rape

"...every branch is scrambling to demonstrate it can get the situation under control by instituting new measures that emphasize a zero-tolerance message and crack down on alcohol, which is said to be a major contributor to the problem.

'We need cultural change...'"

In 1980, they instituted a zero tolerance on alcohol related incidents. This was after installing a zero tolerance policy on drugs, post Vietnam, to which was considered a resounding success.

It's the same-old-same-old. A policy is crafted, implemented, and enforced, with fervor. And then, after awhile, people become complacent; back to business as usual.

Pullinteeth
07-15-2013, 06:46 PM
"...every branch is scrambling to demonstrate it can get the situation under control by instituting new measures that emphasize a zero-tolerance message and crack down on alcohol, which is said to be a major contributor to the problem.

'We need cultural change...'"

In 1980, they instituted a zero tolerance on alcohol related incidents. This was after installing a zero tolerance policy on drugs, post Vietnam, to which was considered a resounding success.

It's the same-old-same-old. A policy is crafted, implemented, and enforced, with fervor. And then, after awhile, people become complacent; back to business as usual.

IMO when you hear ZERO-tolerance, it means they don't have a solution and don't want to have to think about it/apply logic and/or reason....

Rusty Jones
07-15-2013, 07:09 PM
This might sound like an effed up thing to say, but certain things cannot effectively be rectified through preventive measures. They can only be dealt with through corrective measures. This definitely applies to rape and sexual assault.

That is, unless you don't mind making everyone's lives hell.

Salty Old Dog
07-25-2013, 03:55 PM
A few things things you can do:

Get rid of PQS. The Navy is the only service that has it, while members of other services simply get trained on a piece of equipment and then start operating it. Marines don't need a PQS to fire an M9. Someone simply shows them how to use it, and then they use it.

PQS is simply a CYA tool. Just like the majority of paperwork. Make the Navy less of a CYA environment, and LOTS of paperwork can be done any with.

I think 3M may constitute the lion's share of paperwork that the Fleet could do without. Why should the administration behind the maintenance take up more man hours than the maintenance itself?

That may be true, top side, but the engineering spaces live and breathe off of PQS-type qualification for watchstanding. Sorry, but you can't equate firing an M9 to operating a steam or gas turbine plant......there's a world of difference in the complexity.

Engineering watch quals keep a person from being qualified, after being taught, "This is how I do it, never mind how the book says to do it", especially in the nuke power world. You learn it right, and operate it correctly, or you're in a world of hurt, professionally. I dare say that our watch qualifications prevent some really stupid incidents and equipment casualties from happening.

Unless, of course, you enjoy the idea of being dead in the water, waiting for the ocean-going tug to show up, instead of being on liberty?? :rolleyes1:

BURAWSKI
07-25-2013, 05:43 PM
That may be true, top side, but the engineering spaces live and breathe off of PQS-type qualification for watchstanding. Sorry, but you can't equate firing an M9 to operating a steam or gas turbine plant......there's a world of difference in the complexity.

Engineering watch quals keep a person from being qualified, after being taught, "This is how I do it, never mind how the book says to do it", especially in the nuke power world. You learn it right, and operate it correctly, or you're in a world of hurt, professionally. I dare say that our watch qualifications prevent some really stupid incidents and equipment casualties from happening.

Unless, of course, you enjoy the idea of being dead in the water, waiting for the ocean-going tug to show up, instead of being on liberty?? :rolleyes1:


There are some programs where paper documentation is a requirement and I agree that PQS qualifications are one of them.

Navy Mustang
07-26-2013, 05:26 PM
And with all the mando and redundant training (CYA or what not) that gets put on us, instead of sifting through message traffic trying to see what we need to do and attainment reporting via waste of time message traffic back to HHQ, how about instead the flag types all get on the same page and package all the training requirements into an annual plan that Commanders can fold into their own training plan with their own pertinent mission/rating requirements? Instead of all this piecemeal standdown this and that, make it a concentrated week of training and sustainment then let the folks go back about the mission. If not, just give me the muster sheet....surrre, I was there.