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View Full Version : Active duty folks: Do you follow this AFI? If not, why not?



SENDBILLMONEY
06-17-2013, 12:03 PM
AFI 36-3106

8.1. The Installation Commander:

8.1.8. Ensures retirees receive the same respect and courtesy shown to active duty members by informing active duty members that retirees will be addressed by their retired grade (except for those retirees who are currently employed by Civil Service) to include the retiree’s grade on all official records; and to address retirees by their retired grade in official correspondence. Installation commanders should periodically forward guidance to units and organization about continuing to show military respect to retirees.

I did this without fail when I was on active duty and dealt with retirees. Now that I'm on the other side of the fence, it seems that compliance with the policy is hit or miss. Security Forces is great about it at the gate. The legal office is a coin flip. Medical is more miss than hit.

I don't raise a fuss when it doesn't happen because it's not in my best interest to do so. If I'm dealing with the military, it's for customer service. If I raised a fuss, I'd be labeled as "that guy" and possibly subject to reprisal on the level or type of customer service I got. Still, it leaves a poor impression of the person's professionalism.

So, do you follow this AFI? If not, why not?

RFScott
06-17-2013, 12:26 PM
I honestly didn't know that this AFI existed, so I would have to say no, I did not follow it. I certainly never had an installation commander inform me of any of the above provisions. I never really had any interaction with retirees on a normal basis, except for the rare occasion that one would call the base weather station with a general question. I would always be respectful either way, but I did not know that addressing them by their retired grade was a requirement.

imported_Renazance
06-17-2013, 12:30 PM
Not sure if this is rule is followed since I haven't dealt with retirees. If need be, I wouldn't mind addressing them by their retired grade on OFFICIAL correspondence. What I would mind is if some retiree who still thinks he/she has authority over me try to have me address them by their retired grade.

As far as I'm concerned, once you retire, you're all on the same level and hold the same grade, Mr. or Mrs.

Ace Airspeed
06-17-2013, 12:30 PM
What I would mind is if some retiree who still thinks he/she has authority over me try to have me address them by their retired grade.

As far as I'm concerned, once you retire, you're all on the same level and hold the same grade, Mr. or Mrs.

As a retiree, I completely agree with you. My military days are right where they belong - behind me.

imported_KnuckleDragger
06-17-2013, 12:34 PM
LOL. The AD to AD conversations rarely use rank at the hospital.

You are right though, if you go around quoting obscure AFIs to those currently enlisted...you are "that guy"

You earned your retirement, go enjoy it.

SomeRandomGuy
06-17-2013, 12:35 PM
AFI 36-3106

8.1. The Installation Commander:

8.1.8. Ensures retirees receive the same respect and courtesy shown to active duty members by informing active duty members that retirees will be addressed by their retired grade (except for those retirees who are currently employed by Civil Service) to include the retiree’s grade on all official records; and to address retirees by their retired grade in official correspondence. Installation commanders should periodically forward guidance to units and organization about continuing to show military respect to retirees.

I did this without fail when I was on active duty and dealt with retirees. Now that I'm on the other side of the fence, it seems that compliance with the policy is hit or miss. Security Forces is great about it at the gate. The legal office is a coin flip. Medical is more miss than hit.

I don't raise a fuss when it doesn't happen because it's not in my best interest to do so. If I'm dealing with the military, it's for customer service. If I raised a fuss, I'd be labeled as "that guy" and possibly subject to reprisal on the level or type of customer service I got. Still, it leaves a poor impression of the person's professionalism.

So, do you follow this AFI? If not, why not?

At finance we used an access database for customer sign in. Whatever the customer signed in as is what we called them up by. If they signed in as Mr. Smith we called them up by that. If they signed in a CMSgt Smith that is how we called them up. After initially calling the person up you really have no reason to address them by name after that so it was never really an issue.

I will tell you what was an issue though. One day a brand new GS civilian stopped by. He clicked on the list and the first title that jumped out to him was "General" since he did not notice Mr. was an option. We were debating about whether or not to call the room to attention when we called him up. He looked very young for a General so we decided against it. After we called him up we kindly explained that Gen. is a rank in the military and his proper term of address is Mr.

efmbman
06-17-2013, 12:42 PM
When I was in the Army Medical Department, I ensured that I (and my troops) addressed retirees with the proper rank. I also told them that if the retiree said to "Just call me Bill", they could switch to "Mr. Anderson". The retiree earned the title of address, and it is theirs to decline - not ours.

As a retiree now, I feel a little different. I had my time in uniform, and I retired. Therefore, in my opinion, I have no rank. My title of address is "Mister".

Of course, you never know how each retiree will react. There are those that still cling to their rank, and those that couldn't care less.

SomeRandomGuy
06-17-2013, 12:45 PM
One more thing to add: I had a roomate who worked in the hospital at WPAFB. He said there was a retired Chief who would insist on being called Chief and would lecture people when they did not address him as such. One day my roomate sees this guy at the ER. He called him up as "CMSgt Retired" I see nothing wrong with that. If you want to be called by your rank that is fine but I have no problem reminding you that the rank you want to be addressed by is the rank you used to hold.

SENDBILLMONEY
06-17-2013, 12:48 PM
In the Army...officially...aren't Warrant Officers meant to be called "Mister"?

EDIT: Yes, they are.

The Army Warrant Officer is an adaptive technical expert, combat leader, trainer, and advisor. Through progressive levels of expertise in assignments, training, and education, the Warrant Officer administers, manages, maintains, operates, and integrates Army systems and equipment across the full spectrum of Army operations. Warrant Officers are formally addressed as either Mr. or Ms. - Army.mil

Now the question is...do you all really call them that??

Let's not police up the Army until we get "Senior" under control :)

BOSS302
06-17-2013, 12:48 PM
When I was in the Army Medical Department, I ensured that I (and my troops) addressed retirees with the proper rank. I also told them that if the retiree said to "Just call me Bill", they could switch to "Mr. Anderson". The retiree earned the title of address, and it is theirs to decline - not ours.

As a retiree now, I feel a little different. I had my time in uniform, and I retired. Therefore, in my opinion, I have no rank. My title of address is "Mister".

Of course, you never know how each retiree will react. There are those that still cling to their rank, and those that couldn't care less.

In the Army...officially...aren't Warrant Officers meant to be called "Mister"?

EDIT: Yes, they are.

The Army Warrant Officer is an adaptive technical expert, combat leader, trainer, and advisor. Through progressive levels of expertise in assignments, training, and education, the Warrant Officer administers, manages, maintains, operates, and integrates Army systems and equipment across the full spectrum of Army operations. Warrant Officers are formally addressed as either Mr. or Ms. - Army.mil

Now the question is...do you all really call them that??

SENDBILLMONEY
06-17-2013, 01:01 PM
In the Army...officially...aren't Warrant Officers meant to be called "Mister"?

EDIT: Yes, they are.

The Army Warrant Officer is an adaptive technical expert, combat leader, trainer, and advisor. Through progressive levels of expertise in assignments, training, and education, the Warrant Officer administers, manages, maintains, operates, and integrates Army systems and equipment across the full spectrum of Army operations. Warrant Officers are formally addressed as either Mr. or Ms. - Army.mil

Now the question is...do you all really call them that??

Let's not police up the Army until we get "Senior" under control :)

imported_KnuckleDragger
06-17-2013, 01:01 PM
AFI 36-3106

8.1. The Installation Commander:

8.1.8. Ensures retirees receive the same respect and courtesy shown to active duty members by informing active duty members that retirees will be addressed by their retired grade (except for those retirees who are currently employed by Civil Service) to include the retiree’s grade on all official records; and to address retirees by their retired grade in official correspondence. Installation commanders should periodically forward guidance to units and organization about continuing to show military respect to retirees.

FAIL by the Commander

technomage1
06-17-2013, 01:08 PM
I had no idea this existed, but then again I'm not interfacing with retirees on a regular basis.

About the only time I run accross them is when they retiree mine the comissary - ie, wait for AD in uniform to come in to clog the aisles and spend 20 minutes blocking the meat section looking at every single cut in there.

71Fish
06-17-2013, 01:11 PM
As a retiree on almost a year, I prefer them using my first name, or Mr if they are feeling formal. I'm no longer in the military. As some have said, those days are behind me. It made me feel odd when I was active duty and the civilian cops at the gate called me by my first name, and it makes me feel just as odd when the same civilian cops now call me MSgt.

As a contractor now, I work with several retired officers, all below the rank of Col. Everyone goes by first names. It seems retired Col's and CMSgt's in the AF are still called Col or Chief (by those who new them as such) when they retire out of respect, not necessarily because they insist. There is a retired CMSgt I work with now, but I've only seen him maybe twice in the past 6 months. When we were AD together he was obviously "Chief" to me. Next time I see him I'm going to call him by his first names and see what the reaction is. To everyone (except for coworkers) he goes by his first name, why shouldn't I also call him by his first name?

20+Years
06-17-2013, 01:21 PM
Hmmm. I didn't even know this existed, but it could be something I have just forgotten. There is more in that latter category than I'd like to admit.

sandsjames
06-17-2013, 01:58 PM
Didn't know it existed. It seems to be more about "official correspondence", paperwork, etc, but does say that it should always happen. I will make sure to notify my coworkers, as I retire in 9 days. They will NOT be calling me by my name, that's for sure. I may carry a copy of this around in my pocket so I can whip it out when necessary. And all my responses to those who don't comply will be in line with Bruwin's sig line.

BRUWIN
06-17-2013, 01:59 PM
I continue to live in the past and jack up everybody that doesn't call me Chief.

imported_KnuckleDragger
06-17-2013, 02:16 PM
I was just about to ask where Chief GS Civilian Airmen was...and low and behold it's the last comment to date. Good on you for not missing this gem of a post, Bru.

Retiree...I have about four years and change to go. I think about it often. I see this post and the only thing that comes to mind is: Wow...entitled cry baby. You got your 50% (or 40% + CSB). You made your sacrifice, you did your time, and I am sure people are still shaking your hand and saying "Thanks for your service". Polish your flag pin and move on. Who gives a fuck what they call you. If I survive to retirement, they can call me asshole and salute me with the middle finger for all I care. At that point I'll just be happy that they kept the 50% promise they made me.

FTFY

(when will this Forum be fixed?)

Drackore
06-17-2013, 02:23 PM
I was just about to ask where Chief GS Civilian Airmen was...and low and behold it's the last comment to date. Good on you for not missing this gem of a post, Bru.

Retiree...I have about four years and change to go. I think about it often. I see this post and the only thing that comes to mind is: Wow...entitled cry baby. You got your 50% (or 40% + SRB). You made your sacrifice, you did your time, and I am sure people are still shaking your hand and saying "Thanks for your service". Polish your flag pin and move on. Who gives a fuck what they call you. If I survive to retirement, they can call me asshole and salute me with the middle finger for all I care. At that point I'll just be happy that they kept the 50% promise they made me.

SENDBILLMONEY
06-17-2013, 02:26 PM
I was just about to ask where Chief GS Civilian Airmen was...and low and behold it's the last comment to date. Good on you for not missing this gem of a post, Bru.

Retiree...I have about four years and change to go. I think about it often. I see this post and the only thing that comes to mind is: Wow...entitled cry baby. You got your 50% (or 40% + SRB). You made your sacrifice, you did your time, and I am sure people are still shaking your hand and saying "Thanks for your service". Polish your flag pin and move on. Who gives a fuck what they call you. If I survive to retirement, they can call me asshole and salute me with the middle finger for all I care. At that point I'll just be happy that they kept the 50% promise they made me.

Thanks for your service and for your classy response.

CJSmith
06-17-2013, 02:27 PM
About 10% of our division are retired AF ranging from MSgt to LtCol, all are called by their first names. They prefer it. We even had one LtCol recently retire and moved one cubicle over. We all call him by his first name, no big deal.

At a previous base there was a retired CMSgt that worked at base education. Pretty much everybody called him Chief even though he had been retired for years. He helped a lot of folks out and genuinely cared about enlisted getting an education. The guy was just well respected and folks never batted an eye at calling him Chief.

BRUWIN
06-17-2013, 02:35 PM
I was just about to ask where Chief GS Civilian Airmen was...and low and behold it's the last comment to date. Good on you for not missing this gem of a post, Bru.



I've actually known of this AFI for years and I carry a highlighted copy of the applicable AFI page in my left pocket at all times. Despite my civilian rank being the equivalent of a Capt....I choose to stick to my enlisted roots. I am humble that way.

technomage1
06-17-2013, 02:43 PM
Can I just say now that when I retire I don't expect to be called by my rank? I really don't plan to spend a lot of time on an installation anyway. I guess it would be nice if they called me by my rank when I got my retiree ID or whatever but I certainly wouldn't get upset if they didn't.

SENDBILLMONEY
06-17-2013, 02:48 PM
Can I just say now that when I retire I don't expect to be called by my rank? I really don't plan to spend a lot of time on an installation anyway. I guess it would be nice if they called me by my rank when I got my retiree ID or whatever but I certainly wouldn't get upset if they didn't.

I bow to the consensus. Would you be in favor of removing grade from ID cards altogether, so nothing distinguished a retired O-10 from a retired E-1?

Measure Man
06-17-2013, 02:59 PM
This AFI was created by a two-star right before he retired and became a contractor.

It's purpose is that he felt having the Lt. Col. contractor be required to refer to him as General, gave him an advantage in contract negotiations.

DWWSWWD
06-17-2013, 03:02 PM
Huh. Too bad we have to have a regulation mandating what should be common courtesy. That said, I have downplayed the rank in one circumstance because it was confusing the gentleman as to his position in the organization. We had a lot of civilians in the organization all the way to our Vice Commander or whatever the hell they call that when it's a civilian. Anywho, I had to chat with this gentleman and explain that he could have applied for any of those jobs and probably should have. But he applied to be the NCOIC of a mx shop and "that's the job that I need you to do." By the way this guy retired as a Chief from that unit. Wait for it.... I was his replacement. Much learning occured for this young, brand new SMSgt.

BRUWIN
06-17-2013, 03:14 PM
Huh. Too bad we have to have a regulation mandating what should be common courtesy. That said, I have downplayed the rank in one circumstance because it was confusing the gentleman as to his position in the organization. We had a lot of civilians in the organization all the way to our Vice Commander or whatever the hell they call that when it's a civilian. Anywho, I had to chat with this gentleman and explain that he could have applied for any of those jobs and probably should have. But he applied to be the NCOIC of a mx shop and "that's the job that I need you to do." By the way this guy retired as a Chief from that unit. Wait for it.... I was his replacement. Much learning occured for this young, brand new SMSgt.

That's specifically the reason I tell everybody at work to call me by my first name. It was strange for some at first but we all got through it. Some still refuse. However, we already have one Chief in the squadron...they don't need another running around thinking he's still the Chief.

technomage1
06-17-2013, 03:15 PM
I bow to the consensus. Would you be in favor of removing grade from ID cards altogether, so nothing distinguished a retired O-10 from a retired E-1?

I don't really care either way. I suppose it's on there because it's relevant in pay situations and the like. But when I retire I plan to not make the Air Force a routine part of my life.

Pullinteeth
06-17-2013, 03:17 PM
AFI 36-3106

8.1. The Installation Commander:

8.1.8. Ensures retirees receive the same respect and courtesy shown to active duty members by informing active duty members that retirees will be addressed by their retired grade (except for those retirees who are currently employed by Civil Service) to include the retiree’s grade on all official records; and to address retirees by their retired grade in official correspondence. Installation commanders should periodically forward guidance to units and organization about continuing to show military respect to retirees.

I did this without fail when I was on active duty and dealt with retirees. Now that I'm on the other side of the fence, it seems that compliance with the policy is hit or miss. Security Forces is great about it at the gate. The legal office is a coin flip. Medical is more miss than hit.

I don't raise a fuss when it doesn't happen because it's not in my best interest to do so. If I'm dealing with the military, it's for customer service. If I raised a fuss, I'd be labeled as "that guy" and possibly subject to reprisal on the level or type of customer service I got. Still, it leaves a poor impression of the person's professionalism.

So, do you follow this AFI? If not, why not?

Did you happen to actually READ the AFI? It doesn't apply to ADAF, AFR, or ANG...only to retirees and their families.....

"This instruction implements Air Force Policy Directive 36-31, Personal Affairs. It sets procedures for the Retiree Activities Program and provides guidance for Retiree Activities Offices operating on and off active duty facilities. It applies to all retirees and their family members, and surviving spouses, as well as to paid and volunteer personnel who support retiree activities."

Sure it says what the Installation Commander SHOULD do to support retiree actvities but unless the Commander is a retiree...doesn't actully have anything to MAKE him do so...

technomage1
06-17-2013, 03:26 PM
I bow to the consensus. Would you be in favor of removing grade from ID cards altogether, so nothing distinguished a retired O-10 from a retired E-1?

I don't really care either way. I suppose it's on there because it's relevant in pay situations and the like. But when I retire I plan to not make the Air Force a routine part of my life.

20+Years
06-17-2013, 03:30 PM
We had this exact situation in a unit I was part of. The outgoing superintendant landed a job as a civilian fligth Chief. He was absolutely adament that people call him by his first name or Mr. He did not want confusion when people said, "Go talk to Chief". That would just be rude to the incoming Chief if people were trying to undermine him by going to the old Chief just because he conveinently never left.

You know, at my last unit I was close to the Gp Chief. We had a retired Chief in the Gp and even the current Chief called him by his first name, but he would often put the reminder out that he was a retired Chief and had a wealth of knowledge that could be utilized. Very humble, great Chief in my opinion.

Chief_KO
06-17-2013, 03:38 PM
Retiree appeciation day typically involves a luncheon at the club, along with some presentations from base agencies (legal, AF&RC, etc. and the VA) usually geared around benefits (death benefits especially)...MDG usually does blood pressure and other easy checks.
Case lot sale at the commissary is also usually the same day.

WRT to using rank...I'm okay with Mr, my first name or Chief.

SomeRandomGuy
06-17-2013, 03:39 PM
That's specifically the reason I tell everybody at work to call me by my first name. It was strange for some at first but we all got through it. Some still refuse. However, we already have one Chief in the squadron...they don't need another running around thinking he's still the Chief.

We had this exact situation in a unit I was part of. The outgoing superintendant landed a job as a civilian fligth Chief. He was absolutely adament that people call him by his first name or Mr. He did not want confusion when people said, "Go talk to Chief". That would just be rude to the incoming Chief if people were trying to undermine him by going to the old Chief just because he conveinently never left.

20+Years
06-17-2013, 03:40 PM
Personally, and I say this from the AD side of the fence. I would think after serving 20 or 30 years, it would be an honor to be called Mr. at the MPS, or Hosp. You are there because you are entitled, it shows you made it through. Just my opinion.

I know a few retired Chiefs that want to be called by thier "retired" name. Tough, it feels odd not call them Chief once I know they were.

technomage1
06-17-2013, 03:44 PM
Incidently, the AFI also states the base is supposed to have an annual "retiree appreciation day". I can't say as if I've ever seen one but I'm not the target audience. Anyone ever seen or heard of one of these?

Playfair
06-17-2013, 03:45 PM
When I retired I "retired" my rank and title. I became a "Mr." and have enjoyed it. I don't expect anyone to call me by my old rank and would wonder why they did if it happened. My 20+ years of being referred to by rank was enough. I like being called by my first name and anything else except dumbs**t or it's equivalent is acceptable.

Pullinteeth
06-17-2013, 03:50 PM
In my unit, we have multiple retired Officers and SNCOs that now work for us as civilians. For those of us that have been around for more than a minute, it is hard not to call them Chief or Col....

BRUWIN
06-17-2013, 04:02 PM
. if you get a "hey" or "how's it going" in passing, then that probably sums it up.

Hey wait a minute....I've gotten a few of those!!!!

SomeRandomGuy
06-17-2013, 04:04 PM
Incidently, the AFI also states the base is supposed to have an annual "retiree appreciation day". I can't say as if I've ever seen one but I'm not the target audience. Anyone ever seen or heard of one of these?

Yes, been to several of them as a briefer. They are not very well attended even at a base with lots of retirees (WPAFB) but they do exist. The idea behind Retiree Appreciation Day used to be to get the word out to retirees about benefits. In the age of technology people do not normally wait until that one special day per year to seek out information. technology has basically relegated RAD to the case lot sale/blood pressure check that Chief_KO mentioned above.

SomeRandomGuy
06-17-2013, 04:05 PM
Incidently, the AFI also states the base is supposed to have an annual "retiree appreciation day". I can't say as if I've ever seen one but I'm not the target audience. Anyone ever seen or heard of one of these?

Yes, been to several of them as a briefer. They are not very well attended even at a base with lots of retirees (WPAFB) but they do exist. The idea behind Retiree Appreciation Day used to be to get the word out to retirees about benefits. In the age of technology people do not normally wait until that one special day per year to seek out information. technology has basically relegated RAD to the case lot sale/blood pressure check that Chief_KO mentioned above.

USMC0341
06-17-2013, 04:11 PM
I think one can determine how their men/women truly felt about them when they retire and whether they were respected or simply put up with; if you get called by your rank, it is usually a mark of respect. if you get a "hey" or "how's it going" in passing, then that probably sums it up.

efmbman
06-17-2013, 06:10 PM
I don't really care either way. I suppose it's on there because it's relevant in pay situations and the like. But when I retire I plan to not make the Air Force a routine part of my life.

I would have no heartburn about retiree ID cards losing the rank. I have a feeling that just about every E9 and probably all O5+ would want to keep it.

The Army is no longer a part of my life. I show my ID card at Lowes and Home Depot happily!!

grimreaper
06-17-2013, 06:18 PM
AFI 36-3106

8.1. The Installation Commander:

8.1.8. Ensures retirees receive the same respect and courtesy shown to active duty members by informing active duty members that retirees will be addressed by their retired grade (except for those retirees who are currently employed by Civil Service) to include the retiree’s grade on all official records; and to address retirees by their retired grade in official correspondence. Installation commanders should periodically forward guidance to units and organization about continuing to show military respect to retirees.

I did this without fail when I was on active duty and dealt with retirees. Now that I'm on the other side of the fence, it seems that compliance with the policy is hit or miss. Security Forces is great about it at the gate. The legal office is a coin flip. Medical is more miss than hit.

I don't raise a fuss when it doesn't happen because it's not in my best interest to do so. If I'm dealing with the military, it's for customer service. If I raised a fuss, I'd be labeled as "that guy" and possibly subject to reprisal on the level or type of customer service I got. Still, it leaves a poor impression of the person's professionalism.

So, do you follow this AFI? If not, why not?


In today's AF, it's hard enough to be shown respect even if your active duty in uniform. I was part of an inspection team recently and as the MAJCOM IG stopped at the gate, the SrA SFS Sentry asked him "What's up?". Not to mention, this SrA had sideburns that were about a good inch longer than allowed.

If this is what the people IN the service are dealing with, I wouldn't be expecting a lot in retirement.

SENDBILLMONEY
06-17-2013, 08:53 PM
Did you happen to actually READ the AFI? It doesn't apply to ADAF, AFR, or ANG...only to retirees and their families.....

"This instruction implements Air Force Policy Directive 36-31, Personal Affairs. It sets procedures for the Retiree Activities Program and provides guidance for Retiree Activities Offices operating on and off active duty facilities. It applies to all retirees and their family members, and surviving spouses, as well as to paid and volunteer personnel who support retiree activities."

Sure it says what the Installation Commander SHOULD do to support retiree actvities but unless the Commander is a retiree...doesn't actully have anything to MAKE him do so...

Fair bust to a point, if I was trying to get someone punished or chewed out. It's a professional expectation, it was communicated, I followed it when I was on the AD side of the fence, and now that I'm retired I see that it varies widely in practice. So noted.

It's interesting to see the "let go" snipes from fellow USAF retirees who regularly log into the Air Force forum. I'm not sure how to reconcile that, but whatever gets you through the day.

grimreaper
06-17-2013, 11:40 PM
Did you happen to actually READ the AFI? It doesn't apply to ADAF, AFR, or ANG...only to retirees and their families.....

"This instruction implements Air Force Policy Directive 36-31, Personal Affairs. It sets procedures for the Retiree Activities Program and provides guidance for Retiree Activities Offices operating on and off active duty facilities. It applies to all retirees and their family members, and surviving spouses, as well as to paid and volunteer personnel who support retiree activities."

Sure it says what the Installation Commander SHOULD do to support retiree actvities but unless the Commander is a retiree...doesn't actully have anything to MAKE him do so...

Not to mention that the word "should" in AFI speak is only a recommendation. It is not mandatory.