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LC-45
06-16-2013, 01:31 PM
Kadena in the news again...

http://japandailypress.com/us-soldier-in-okinawa-arrested-for-vandalizing-parked-car-while-drunk-0329895

imported_blacksheep1208
06-17-2013, 07:54 AM
That's what happens when f%#k a stranger in the a$$.

imported_AFKILO7
06-17-2013, 11:18 AM
I honestly wonder what the disconnect is, and why people act they way they do in Okinawa. I was in my early 20's when I lived in Europe and I honestly do not remember hearing crazy stories like this in Germany. I was stationed in Misawa and some of the stuff that would happen over the weekends amazed me. I have drank to excess, but I have never broke into another persons home and fell asleep in their child's bed or decided to vandalize personal property.

Is it a socioeconomic issue? A lack of parenting? A lack of enforcing discipline on behalf of the frontline supervisor? With all of this in mind I still do not understand why the individual isn't hammered by leadership. I'm talking physical punishment. I would venture to guess that some people would reconsider acting like an ass if the possibility of a intense caning was the punishment for their actions. Holding EVERYONE accountable surely hasn't worked yet...

Absinthe Anecdote
06-17-2013, 12:01 PM
I honestly wonder what the disconnect is, and why people act they way they do in Okinawa. I was in my early 20's when I lived in Europe and I honestly do not remember hearing crazy stories like this in Germany. I was stationed in Misawa and some of the stuff that would happen over the weekends amazed me. I have drank to excess, but I have never broke into another persons home and fell asleep in their child's bed or decided to vandalize personal property.

Is it a socioeconomic issue? A lack of parenting? A lack of enforcing discipline on behalf of the frontline supervisor? With all of this in mind I still do not understand why the individual isn't hammered by leadership. I'm talking physical punishment. I would venture to guess that some people would reconsider acting like an ass if the possibility of a intense caning was the punishment for their actions. Holding EVERYONE accountable surely hasn't worked yet...

I think a contributing factor is the type of drinking that goes on in Japan, binge drinking.

Maybe it is because all the bars are clustered into the same area and people leave one bar and then stop off at another place and then repeat the process until they are too far gone.

I used to tend bar in a neighborhood of Baltimore that has about 60 bars and restaurants in a one square mile area and saw the same thing every weekend. Some people felt like they had to hit them all in one night.

RFScott
06-17-2013, 12:32 PM
I think a contributing factor it is the type of drinking that goes on in Japan, binge drinking.

Maybe it is because all the bars are clustered into the same area and people leave one bar and then stop off at another place and then repeat the process until they are too far gone.

I used to tend bar in a neighborhood of Baltimore that has about 60 bars and restaurants in a one square mile area and saw the same thing every weekend. Some people felt like they had to hit them all in one night.

Does USFJ have a curfew policy right now? I know binge drinking was a huge problem in Korea too, with all the bars clustered in the ville outside the gates. It seems like a lot of people would try to consume as much alcohol as possible downtown before the drunk march back to base to make the 1 A.M. curfew. I'm not sure if things changed when they lifted the curfew in '09, but I have heard USFK reinstated a curfew not long after lifting it. Maybe one of the guys who is in Korea now could answer that question.

BOSS302
06-17-2013, 12:42 PM
Does USFJ have a curfew policy right now? I know binge drinking was a huge problem in Korea too, with all the bars clustered in the ville outside the gates. It seems like a lot of people would try to consume as much alcohol as possible downtown before the drunk march back to base to make the 1 A.M. curfew. I'm not sure if things changed when they lifted the curfew in '09, but I have heard USFK reinstated a curfew not long after lifting it. Maybe one of the guys who is in Korea now could answer that question.

USFK has a minimum curfew of 1am - 5am. However, the U.S. Army has fluctuated in the severity of the curfew over the past year due to jackasses in Seoul doing jackass things, such as the BB gun incident and the groping of a woman incident. Kunsan AB also has a curfew of 12am for...whatever reason the Kunsan Wing/CC decided.

USFK did do away with the curfew and, interestingly, incidents involving US service members DROPPED. The following USFK commander introduced curfew again for "Force Protection" issues, of course....

As it stands now, Osan AB has a curfew of 1am to 5am but the Songtan Entertainment District - "the strip" of bars and restaurants and clubs and cafes right outside the front of the base - is completely off-limits from 11am until 5am due to protests at the main gate.

Airborne
06-17-2013, 12:48 PM
Never been to Kadena, but in Mildenhall there were 5 or 6 pubs all within in walking distance, all happily selling strong beer and spirits. Rarely is there ever a problem outside of your normal debauchery. Maybe because the UK has more of a binge drinking culture and its easier for a 20 year old blonde hair blue eye male to disappear into the crowd? I know Germany has a celebrated drinking culture al well. Our time is limited in Kadena I think.

LFAWes
06-17-2013, 12:52 PM
This nonsense has been going on since we took over the island. Its just now we have it sent all over the world in minutes. And everyone is hyper sensitive to it.

BOSS302
06-17-2013, 12:57 PM
Never been to Kadena, but in Mildenhall there were 5 or 6 pubs all within in walking distance, all happily selling strong beer and spirits. Rarely is there ever a problem outside of your normal debauchery. Maybe because the UK has more of a binge drinking culture and its easier for a 20 year old blonde hair blue eye male to disappear into the crowd? I know Germany has a celebrated drinking culture al well. Our time is limited in Kadena I think.

The Bird in Hand was right outside the gate. I mean, the parking lot of the Bird in Hand pub was hemmed in on one side by the base perimeter fence! I saw many a drunk American during my time there and the reaction from the Brits vs Japanese (and Koreans) is so culturally different.

The Brits have no problem punching it out with drunk Americans; the Brits have no problem sending a drunk American up the road to sleep it off; they have no issue letting their "Bobbies" handle our drunks. They very rarely - if ever! - turn an incident involving drunk Americans into something big. I would assume it is the culture of Western values, common law values, and the propensity for the Brits to be quite the drunkards themselves.

imported_KnuckleDragger
06-17-2013, 01:18 PM
The Bird in Hand was right outside the gate. I mean, the parking lot of the Bird in Hand pub was hemmed in on one side by the base perimeter fence! I saw many a drunk American during my time there and the reaction from the Brits vs Japanese (and Koreans) is so culturally different.

The Brits have no problem punching it out with drunk Americans; the Brits have no problem sending a drunk American up the road to sleep it off; they have no issue letting their "Bobbies" handle our drunks. They very rarely - if ever! - turn an incident involving drunk Americans into something big. I would assume it is the culture of Western values, common law values, and the propensity for the Brits to be quite the drunkards themselves.

Agreed. Similar to my experiences in Germany.

The Media is also to blame, by picking/choosing which stories to run.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-17-2013, 01:21 PM
Never been to Kadena, but in Mildenhall there were 5 or 6 pubs all within in walking distance, all happily selling strong beer and spirits. Rarely is there ever a problem outside of your normal debauchery. Maybe because the UK has more of a binge drinking culture and its easier for a 20 year old blonde hair blue eye male to disappear into the crowd? I know Germany has a celebrated drinking culture al well. Our time is limited in Kadena I think.

There is another element to how these events are being portrayed in the Japanese media. The Okinawa Prefecture uses these incidents to generate outrage and then leverages Tokyo for more economic concessions and funding.

Don’t get me wrong, our guys shouldn’t be going out and getting drunk off their ass and then doing stupid shit.

But I don’t think that our relationship with the Japanese government is at risk because of alcohol related incidents.

Plus, I’ve spent a lot of time riding the metro in Tokyo late at night and have seen plenty of drunken Japanese salarymen do outrageous stunts from pissing in the subway cars to having violent outbursts.

My point is people from all walks of life and backgrounds get drunk and stupid. Don’t believe me? Get a part-time job tending bar.

Shadowless
06-17-2013, 01:36 PM
USFK has a minimum curfew of 1am - 5am. However, the U.S. Army has fluctuated in the severity of the curfew over the past year due to jackasses in Seoul doing jackass things, such as the BB gun incident and the groping of a woman incident. Kunsan AB also has a curfew of 12am for...whatever reason the Kunsan Wing/CC decided.

USFK did do away with the curfew and, interestingly, incidents involving US service members DROPPED. The following USFK commander introduced curfew again for "Force Protection" issues, of course....

As it stands now, Osan AB has a curfew of 1am to 5am but the Songtan Entertainment District - "the strip" of bars and restaurants and clubs and cafes right outside the front of the base - is completely off-limits from 11am until 5am due to protests at the main gate.

Thats the problem, when will this clueless lack of leadership ever understand? When you put these curfews and rules into play all you are doing is making people want to act out and stick it to the man. The military is a dictorship, yes we know, but for heavens sake can we just start taking personal responsability into account? If someone messes up, punish them, don't make an entire country have a bed time, how old are we again? The military tends to be a joke when I see things like curfews, pretty pathetic if you ask me.

RFScott
06-17-2013, 02:11 PM
USFK has a minimum curfew of 1am - 5am. However, the U.S. Army has fluctuated in the severity of the curfew over the past year due to jackasses in Seoul doing jackass things, such as the BB gun incident and the groping of a woman incident. Kunsan AB also has a curfew of 12am for...whatever reason the Kunsan Wing/CC decided.

USFK did do away with the curfew and, interestingly, incidents involving US service members DROPPED. The following USFK commander introduced curfew again for "Force Protection" issues, of course....

As it stands now, Osan AB has a curfew of 1am to 5am but the Songtan Entertainment District - "the strip" of bars and restaurants and clubs and cafes right outside the front of the base - is completely off-limits from 11am until 5am due to protests at the main gate.

Sounds like things never really changed. It was midnight to 5 A.M. during the weekdays, and 1 to 5 A.M. on the weekends when I was there. General Sharp had eased it to 3 to 5 A.M. towards the end of my 2 years there, and then I heard the curfew was lifted altogether not long after I left. Perhaps the binge drinking and incidents would have continued to drop had the curfew remained shelved. The force protection excuse still seems perplexing to me, as one could still get trashed in their room on base and not have the wits to respond quickly should the shit hit the fan.

BRUWIN
06-17-2013, 02:48 PM
I think a contributing factor it is the type of drinking that goes on in Japan, binge drinking.



Never a truer statement. I think a lot of the off-duty issues today are a result of binge drinking...and I believe alcohol rather than attitudes is more of the issue with regards to sexual assault. Nobody is immune to causing a ruckus if they've slammed alcohol all night, I don't care how good a troop you are you are not the same person when you binge drink. I don't drink anymore...simply because I was becoming irresponsible in my behavior when doing so. I am so glad I gave it up 6 1/2 years ago.....life became a lot simpler. Many can drink responsibly and for quite a long time I could as well. That changed for me as time went on and it was time to stop drinking.

BRUWIN
06-17-2013, 02:57 PM
You didn't crash your brand new Porch, did you?

If you knew the story about what led to my decision to quit drinking you'd get a kick out of it...everybody else does. However, in the interest of forum anonymity I won't tell it here.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-17-2013, 03:00 PM
Never a truer statement. I think a lot of the off-duty issues today are a result of binge drinking...and I believe alcohol rather than attitudes is more of the issue with regards to sexual assault. Nobody is immune to causing a ruckus if they've slammed alcohol all night, I don't care how good a troop you are you are not the same person when you binge drink. I don't drink anymore...simply because I was becoming irresponsible in my behavior when doing so. I am so glad I gave it up 6 1/2 years ago.....life became a lot simpler. Many can drink responsibly and for quite a long time I could as well. That changed for me as time went on and it was time to stop drinking.

You didn't crash your brand new Porch, did you?

BRUWIN
06-17-2013, 03:09 PM
You didn't crash your brand new Porch, did you?

If you knew the story about what led to my decision to quit drinking you'd get a kick out of it...everybody else does. However, in the interest of forum anonymity I won't tell it here.

CJSmith
06-17-2013, 03:16 PM
The Media is also to blame, by picking/choosing which stories to run.

Let's just hope the next incident at Kadena doesn't involve a drunk, sexual assault prevention guy fondeling a woman. The media would have a field day with that one!

technomage1
06-17-2013, 03:32 PM
Never a truer statement. I think a lot of the off-duty issues today are a result of binge drinking...and I believe alcohol rather than attitudes is more of the issue with regards to sexual assault. Nobody is immune to causing a ruckus if they've slammed alcohol all night, I don't care how good a troop you are you are not the same person when you binge drink. I don't drink anymore...simply because I was becoming irresponsible in my behavior when doing so. I am so glad I gave it up 6 1/2 years ago.....life became a lot simpler. Many can drink responsibly and for quite a long time I could as well. That changed for me as time went on and it was time to stop drinking.

And that's the elephant in the room no one wants to touch or address. It's wink-wink, nudge-nudge to the younger troops to go out and have a good time - and they only define that as being hammered. What utter BS that is. You can go out and have a great time and not get blasted. I'm not anti alcohol, I do drink upon occasion, but at most it's a couple of beers. I have a great time, I don't act like an idiot, I'm not broke, and I'm not hung over or chewing my arm off the next morning because I woke up next to someone.

How many of these sexual harrassment cases involve not only younger troops but Lt Cols, etc getting hammered drunk?

Absinthe Anecdote
06-17-2013, 04:21 PM
If you knew the story about what led to my decision to quit drinking you'd get a kick out of it...everybody else does. However, in the interest of forum anonymity I won't tell it here.

I’m sure I would get a kick out of it and I’m glad that you survived the incident.

I didn’t quit drinking entirely but I don’t drink like I did in my twenties. When I was in my mid-thirties I got a part time job tending bar and saw a lot of things that made me rethink a lot of my notions about alcohol and human nature.

I’ve seen the nicest intelligent people turn into to total morons over the course of an evening. I learned more about how to treat people and dissolve confrontations tending bar than I did in any PME or management course.

Yes, working in a little dive bar for two and a half years gave me more knowledge about human behavior than any other experience in my life.

BRUWIN
06-17-2013, 04:40 PM
Yes, working in a little dive bar for two and a half years gave me more knowledge about human behavior than any other experience in my life.

I've always wanted to do that job for the very reasons you state. Two years working in a bar should be an automatic 4 year counseling degree.