PDA

View Full Version : Is it time for the dorms to go away?



imported_WILDJOKER5
06-07-2013, 05:44 PM
No actually. May need to actually revert back to having unmarried, dependant free E-5/6's back in the dorms to cut down on the cost of BAH/BAQ.

SomeRandomGuy
06-07-2013, 05:48 PM
Couple thoughts here:

1. Budget restrictions is making it harder and harder for CE to maintaint the facilities. The AF has already determined it more efficient to pay BAH to ALL married folks and let them pay their privatized housing contractor "rent". So, why wouldn't it be the same for the dormitories? Cost of repair, preventative maintenance, lawn care, snow removal, utilities, etc. The cost of BAH has to be close or less than all the maintenance and contracts covering the dorms.

2. I've seen an increasing number of older folks joining the AF, meaning 25+ years old. At the moment, their is no provision allowing them to move out of the dorms before E4 and 3 years.

Perhaps complete elimination isnt the answer. However, if they are key and essential personnel, then they could reside in base housing and pay the "rent". 15 years ago, as an A1C(married), I had single airman/lts living in housing on my block.

What say you?

I say every base should have one or maybe two dormitories total. Thsi dorm would be used to hosue financially irrresponsible Amn, transient personnel, those confined to base, and of course anyone who simply wanted to live in the dorms. Living in these dorms would be the same as paying rent for those people they simply lose thier BAH. If an indidiual base wants to keep more dorms due to high housing costs in the area (Minot) then they could make taht decision at the local level. For every other base we need to allow Airmen the chance to live their lives as opposed to treating them like children. BAH became cheaper then dorms as soon as the AF decided that everyone should get thier own dorm room and we should build dorms that are as nice as small apartments.

RobotChicken
06-07-2013, 05:50 PM
Issue everyone a 'pup-tent'! Problem solved.

fufu
06-07-2013, 05:53 PM
Couple thoughts here:

1. Budget restrictions is making it harder and harder for CE to maintaint the facilities. The AF has already determined it more efficient to pay BAH to ALL married folks and let them pay their privatized housing contractor "rent". So, why wouldn't it be the same for the dormitories? Cost of repair, preventative maintenance, lawn care, snow removal, utilities, etc. The cost of BAH has to be close or less than all the maintenance and contracts covering the dorms.

2. I've seen an increasing number of older folks joining the AF, meaning 25+ years old. At the moment, their is no provision allowing them to move out of the dorms before E4 and 3 years.

Perhaps complete elimination isnt the answer. However, if they are key and essential personnel, then they could reside in base housing and pay the "rent". 15 years ago, as an A1C(married), I had single airman/lts living in housing on my block.

What say you?

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-07-2013, 05:55 PM
No actually. May need to actually revert back to having unmarried, dependant free E-5/6's back in the dorms to cut down on the cost of BAH/BAQ.

TREYSLEDGE
06-07-2013, 05:56 PM
Maybe the AF could privatize dorms, like some base housing areas have been.

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-07-2013, 06:14 PM
That may not be a bad idea. I know some will be pissed, but I also know some younger E-5s that would love to be back in the dorms.

There are hot young sweet thangs up in the dorms that need some serious "old school" counseling and mentoring. Something to show how mature adults are supposed to act. ;)

JD2780
06-07-2013, 06:19 PM
No actually. May need to actually revert back to having unmarried, dependant free E-5/6's back in the dorms to cut down on the cost of BAH/BAQ.

That may not be a bad idea. I know some will be pissed, but I also know some younger E-5s that would love to be back in the dorms.

Pullinteeth
06-07-2013, 06:24 PM
Maybe the AF could privatize dorms, like some base housing areas have been.

Jesus christ. Can you imagine that? You think they are broke now? Wait until HBC gets their hooks in them....

VFFTSGT
06-07-2013, 06:28 PM
Couple thoughts here:

1. Budget restrictions is making it harder and harder for CE to maintaint the facilities. The AF has already determined it more efficient to pay BAH to ALL married folks and let them pay their privatized housing contractor "rent". So, why wouldn't it be the same for the dormitories? Cost of repair, preventative maintenance, lawn care, snow removal, utilities, etc. The cost of BAH has to be close or less than all the maintenance and contracts covering the dorms.

2. I've seen an increasing number of older folks joining the AF, meaning 25+ years old. At the moment, their is no provision allowing them to move out of the dorms before E4 and 3 years.

Perhaps complete elimination isnt the answer. However, if they are key and essential personnel, then they could reside in base housing and pay the "rent". 15 years ago, as an A1C(married), I had single airman/lts living in housing on my block.

What say you?

Actually, it's not cheaper. It's special interest that drive the privatization.

From the DOD's own website...
http://www.acq.osd.mil/housing/docs/Baldwin%20article%20on%20Privatization.pdf

Pullinteeth
06-07-2013, 06:58 PM
Actually, it's not cheaper. It's special interest that drive the privatization.

From the DOD's own website...
http://www.acq.osd.mil/housing/docs/Baldwin%20article%20on%20Privatization.pdf

Yep...even before privitazation, the DoD would kowtow to civilians when it comes to housing. If the local housing market was down...demolish base housing and pay BAH....

Measure Man
06-07-2013, 09:00 PM
Need more info!

- I'm not convinced keeping people in a dorm is cheaper than paying them BAH. Seems like dorms are always being renovated and sucking dollars.

- Keeping 400 Airman in a single building is a force protection "concern"...maybe not a huge risk, but definitely something that bears watching. For being on a base, it's a fairly soft target with a large number of people.

- I never minded living in the dorms as long as I had my own room...hate sharing a room with another grown man. Last time I lived in the dorms was as an E-8 in Korea and it suited me just fine...no bills to keep track of, no responsibilities...suits me just fine. We also didn't have room inspections in the SNCO dorm, which was another thing I always hated.

Measure Man
06-07-2013, 09:07 PM
Actually, it's not cheaper. It's special interest that drive the privatization.

From the DOD's own website...
http://www.acq.osd.mil/housing/docs/Baldwin%20article%20on%20Privatization.pdf

Now that is interesting!!

I've been to bases that had "Wherry Housing" and "Capehart Housing" areas...and I always thought that those names referred to the architectural style...LOL.

imported_KnuckleDragger
06-07-2013, 09:19 PM
^^ What MM said ^^

RobotChicken
06-07-2013, 09:37 PM
Some things never change...

Zxc
06-07-2013, 10:22 PM
Need more info!

- I'm not convinced keeping people in a dorm is cheaper than paying them BAH. Seems like dorms are always being renovated and sucking dollars.

- Keeping 400 Airman in a single building is a force protection "concern"...maybe not a huge risk, but definitely something that bears watching. For being on a base, it's a fairly soft target with a large number of people.

- I never minded living in the dorms as long as I had my own room...hate sharing a room with another grown man. Last time I lived in the dorms was as an E-8 in Korea and it suited me just fine...no bills to keep track of, no responsibilities...suits me just fine. We also didn't have room inspections in the SNCO dorm, which was another thing I always hated.

We're wasteful with Dormitory projects and management. Dorms have common areas filled with televisions, gaming systems, pool tables, exercise equipment and more, yet we still build community centers for the same target audience with all of the same amenities. Why the redundancy? Why do such amenities need to be so accessible that Airmen needn't even get dressed to use them? The dorms are generally all within short walking distance of eachother; why not just beef up the Community Center with the same type of amenities and call it a day? Army does it right in this situation--they build up central locations where Airman can GO to, relax, socialize. Equipment is monitored and checked out. They don't try to make every dormitory facility into its own Community Center

technomage1
06-07-2013, 11:10 PM
We're wasteful with Dormitory projects and management. Dorms have common areas filled with televisions, gaming systems, pool tables, exercise equipment and more, yet we still build community centers for the same target audience with all of the same amenities. Why the redundancy? Why do such amenities need to be so accessible that Airmen needn't even get dressed to use them? The dorms are generally all within short walking distance of eachother; why not just beef up the Community Center with the same type of amenities and call it a day? Army does it right in this situation--they build up central locations where Airman can GO to, relax, socialize. Equipment is monitored and checked out. They don't try to make every dormitory facility into its own Community Center

Ahh, accidentally hit the dislike button on this post while swiping with my iPad. Sorry!

Measure Man
06-07-2013, 11:32 PM
We're wasteful with Dormitory projects and management. Dorms have common areas filled with televisions, gaming systems, pool tables, exercise equipment and more, yet we still build community centers for the same target audience with all of the same amenities. Why the redundancy? Why do such amenities need to be so accessible that Airmen needn't even get dressed to use them? The dorms are generally all within short walking distance of eachother; why not just beef up the Community Center with the same type of amenities and call it a day? Army does it right in this situation--they build up central locations where Airman can GO to, relax, socialize. Equipment is monitored and checked out. They don't try to make every dormitory facility into its own Community Center

Yes, agree with you there...those "quality of life" funds seem to override everything else.

Zxc
06-07-2013, 11:34 PM
Ahh, accidentally hit the dislike button on this post while swiping with my iPad. Sorry!

Had a PM from another poster when I logged in saying the same thing... those things are dangerous! :P

RobotChicken
06-07-2013, 11:41 PM
Need more info!

- I'm not convinced keeping people in a dorm is cheaper than paying them BAH. Seems like dorms are always being renovated and sucking dollars.

- Keeping 400 Airman in a single building is a force protection "concern"...maybe not a huge risk, but definitely something that bears watching. For being on a base, it's a fairly soft target with a large number of people.

- I never minded living in the dorms as long as I had my own room...hate sharing a room with another grown man. Last time I lived in the dorms was as an E-8 in Korea and it suited me just fine...no bills to keep track of, no responsibilities...suits me just fine. We also didn't have room inspections in the SNCO dorm, which was another thing I always hated.
10/23/1983, we saw how well that idea worked out...299+kia.

Greg
06-08-2013, 12:13 AM
10/23/1983, we saw how well that idea worked out...299+kia.

My brother, a BTFA, was stationed on the USS Puget Sound which was at anchor, over the horizon (out of rocket range) at the time. He told me, the resulting shock wave from the bomb blast lifted the whole ship, a sub tender, out of the water! A submarine tender, per square foot, weighs more than an aircraft carrier.

imported_DannyJ
06-08-2013, 12:51 AM
Back to topic...I think the dorms are an important part of the transitional phase for young Airmen. I would actually like to see that married E1-E4 have to live on base (if available). I've seen too many stories of young ones that can't manage their finances and end up in significant trouble. I think it takes one thing off the back of kids just learning to be part of the military.

RobotChicken
06-08-2013, 12:58 AM
My brother, a BTFA, was stationed on the USS Puget Sound which was at anchor, over the horizon (out of rocket range) at the time. He told me, the resulting shock wave from the bomb blast lifted the whole ship, a sub tender, out of the water! A submarine tender, per square foot, weighs more than an aircraft carrier.
My Brother had just left the compound a few days before to come back to Conus after his 3rd tour there.

Measure Man
06-08-2013, 01:02 AM
10/23/1983, we saw how well that idea worked out...299+kia.

...and, of course, Khobar Towers

Capt Alfredo
06-08-2013, 01:24 AM
Man, there was nothing worse than living in the barracks/dorms. I spent my first three years (counting tech school) in the dorms, in a 2+2 configuration, and it sucked monkey balls. No privacy. I remember I had one of those roommates who never left the room except to go to the chow hall and to the gym. I had a girlfriend whose roomie was the same. We NEVER got any privacy. I ended up neck deep in credit card debt just from going out to dinner and whatnot all the time to escape the prison cell that was my dorm room. And this was at Ft Meade so there was no fun parties or anything going on, either. Add in suite mates who worked shift work and made crazy amounts of noise at all hours, and I was ready to get out of the military after one tour. Thank goodness they kicked everyone out of the dorms in around '94 to renovate and everyone ended up getting BAH.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-08-2013, 12:47 PM
My brother, a BTFA, was stationed on the USS Puget Sound which was at anchor, over the horizon (out of rocket range) at the time. He told me, the resulting shock wave from the bomb blast lifted the whole ship, a sub tender, out of the water! A submarine tender, per square foot, weighs more than an aircraft carrier.

No disrespect, but your brother can’t mean that literally the whole ship was lifted out of the water from 20 plus miles away from a truck bomb.
Think about it for a minute, that’s an obvious tall tale.

Greg
06-08-2013, 01:08 PM
No disrespect, but your brother can’t mean that literally the whole ship was lifted out of the water from 20 plus miles away from a truck bomb.
Think about it for a minute, that’s an obvious tall tale.

Since there was a liberal amount of alcohol consumed that evening, I'm sure he meant to say, "It felt as if the whole ship..." Or I could be misremembering, either way, the beers, and shots, were flowing!

sandsjames
06-08-2013, 01:26 PM
Now that is interesting!!

I've been to bases that had "Wherry Housing" and "Capehart Housing" areas...and I always thought that those names referred to the architectural style...LOL.

Hey, I know that base....

ConfusedAirman
06-09-2013, 10:06 AM
Open bay barracks and community latrines.

BOSS302
06-09-2013, 03:35 PM
From a CE perspective, dormitories are a money pit.

They require constant maintenance and upkeep; this can be attributed to (1) Stupid airmen doing stupid things, (2) the Air Force choosing the cheapest contractors who use the cheapest material and cut the quickest corners.

They are ENERGY HOGS. Airmen leave lights on. Airmen take long showers (when the hot water is working). Airmen will crank the A/C up but leave their doors/windows open. And why wouldn't they? Their rooms are not individually metered for billing.

There are too many "good idea fairies" floating around in contracting and CC offices who use the dormitory QoL initiatives as bullet-padding opportunities. Money is thrown into weight rooms, 72" 3D televisions in the common areas, new-fangled washer/dryer units (I've only seen ONE dormitory my entire career that was smart and had INDUSTRIAL units installed), surround-sound systems, and gaming systems. Hell, one dormitory at Lakenheath had a coffee CAFE in the little community area (obviously rarely used, if ever; the foo-foo mocha and flavor syrup bottles were collecting dust). As someone else pointed out, there are already facilities on base that have all this.

I'm not informed enough to know whether dormitories are cheaper/more expensive than everyone on BAH/OHA; I do know that the dorms can be expensive in their own right...perpetually.

I also know that, as a 19 year-old airman at my first base, the dormitories were an eye-opening, memorable life experience and were also an environment that kept me responsible (fiscally and personally) during my first few years in the AF. Some things you just can't put a price on...

imported_KnuckleDragger
06-09-2013, 04:52 PM
I've only seen ONE dormitory my entire career that was smart and had INDUSTRIAL units installed

Not installing Industrial units should be considered FWA. The units in a MX dorm take a beating. I can't imagine the ones that have residents doing a lot of field exercises.

JD2780
06-09-2013, 05:12 PM
Not installing Industrial units should be considered FWA. The units in a MX dorm take a beating. I can't imagine the ones that have residents doing a lot of field exercises.

Yup, washing field gear, washing the charcoal out of the old mopp suits.