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JD2780
06-05-2013, 12:19 PM
Some female senators were going crazy asking why 1/100 go to trial and why 1/10 provide a conviction?

The 1/100 I don't know. Maybe it's because insufficient evidence.

For the 1/10 conviction rate, perhaps it's because the accused didn't actually commit rape? Would some of these folks like wrongful convictions so we can in turn rape their careers?

No woman or man should ever endure a rape or a sexual assault, but at what cost do we pursue this? Throw accused careers away for the sake of playing nice with senators?

Retired USAF Officer
06-05-2013, 04:55 PM
I wish these female senators could read the security police reports that I read as a commander. They would see an entirely different picture. Given the lack of any moral compass that most young men and women have today, in addition to the "hook-up" mentality that is everywhere in today's media, most of these "sexual assaults" or more "drunken regret".

RobotChicken
06-05-2013, 06:29 PM
Just maybe these senators should look at the civilian societies they created that are giving us these recruits and officers FIRST instead of blaming it ALL on OUR military societies doings; when their equal everything goes in a 18-21 year old's mind being conditioned to nuke a million people or wipe out a third world country at a drop of a hat!(or salute) This is apples and oranges,real life;not Hollywood! (never saw any body bags in a McDonalds supply cabinet) Our civilians raised them till 18+ and THEN gave 'em to us! We have to fix 'em too? (Happy Bob?)

20+Years
06-05-2013, 07:40 PM
After sitting a rape trial, I can tell you not everything is black and white. Thre are definitely three sides to every story. Sitting, as a juror, what eveidence would you need to declare someone guilty of rape? Just the womans story and some tears, or true evidence (rape kit, verified DNA, pictures, clear video, ect). Most likely none of those will be available if a rape is not reported for a day or two. Thats why the conviction rate is so low.

Banned
06-05-2013, 09:05 PM
After sitting a rape trial, I can tell you not everything is black and white. Thre are definitely three sides to every story. Sitting, as a juror, what eveidence would you need to declare someone guilty of rape? Just the womans story and some tears, or true evidence (rape kit, verified DNA, pictures, clear video, ect). Most likely none of those will be available if a rape is not reported for a day or two. Thats why the conviction rate is so low.

Agreed. It goes both ways. There's plenty of baseless rape claims, and there's plenty cases of - if you will - "legitimate rape" getting swept under the rug.

wildman
06-06-2013, 02:50 AM
I wish these female senators could read the security police reports that I read as a commander. They would see an entirely different picture. Given the lack of any moral compass that most young men and women have today, in addition to the "hook-up" mentality that is everywhere in today's media, most of these "sexual assaults" or more "drunken regret".

So what criteria do you as a commander use? If a women says she was assaulted do you take her seriously or wish she would keep her mouth shut? Not a easy task but one that needs to be addressed IMO. Where is the leadership also, my subordinates (the ones I supervised) were more afraid of me than they were of the commander and knew I would make their life a living hell if they messed up. Cases of sexual assault were not that prevalent. Oh they may have occurred but if they did I did not see but one case in my 17 years with the Air Force, and it happened to be an individual whom I supervised. It turned out to be a drunken regret, but I still recommended and got the commander to administer an article 15 and to take a stripe. The female received like wise.

Always,
Wildman

garhkal
06-06-2013, 07:13 AM
Agreed. It goes both ways. There's plenty of baseless rape claims, and there's plenty cases of - if you will - "legitimate rape" getting swept under the rug.

I'll agree with joe here.. there are plenty of cases that are more than likely 'drunken regret'. but there are also going to be cases where the 'good old boys' protect their star workers.

RS6405
06-06-2013, 10:05 AM
Wow....JD you statistics are scary. If your statistic is true then compare it to the statistics I heard* from a LEO that handles child abuse cases..... Of all reported child abuse cases, only 20% go to trial (delays in reporting, lack of evidence, conflicting motives for reporting with no evidence of assault) and only 7% of child sexual assaults get a conviction (loss of hymen, STD, narrow time frame of when it happen with no other perps to commit act, or [very rare to test for] DNA of STD matches perps STD's DNA). It is one of the more frustrating fields in law enforcement because of the nature and lack of conviction.

In comparison, military sexual assaults have just a 10% conviction rate of all trials, while child sexual abuse is 35% (20% trial/ 7% conviction of all reported). Considering the extreme limitations that occur in prosecuting child sexual assaults, that statistic is a shameful conviction rate.

* Granted, the statistics I shared are repeated in that field, but I did not look up the statistics to confirm the accuracy or source. Take it as you wish.

JD2780
06-06-2013, 10:54 AM
Wow....JD you statistics are scary. If your statistic is true then compare it to the statistics I heard* from a LEO that handles child abuse cases..... Of all reported child abuse cases, only 20% go to trial (delays in reporting, lack of evidence, conflicting motives for reporting with no evidence of assault) and only 7% of child sexual assaults get a conviction (loss of hymen, STD, narrow time frame of when it happen with no other perps to commit act, or [very rare to test for] DNA of STD matches perps STD's DNA). It is one of the more frustrating fields in law enforcement because of the nature and lack of conviction.

In comparison, military sexual assaults have just a 10% conviction rate of all trials, while child sexual abuse is 35% (20% trial/ 7% conviction of all reported). Considering the extreme limitations that occur in prosecuting child sexual assaults, that statistic is a shameful conviction rate.

* Granted, the statistics I shared are repeated in that field, but I did not look up the statistics to confirm the accuracy or source. Take it as you wish.

I got the stats from a senator on the news. Obviously not exact.

Nuckin Futs
06-24-2013, 01:24 AM
Here's the issue with why it is so hard to try and convict these cases...

She says he did, he says he didn't. There is no other evidence. Throw in the defense umbrella provided by the comments made from the POTUS/CMC that give lawyers the undue influence card to play and you're looking at a defense attorney's dream. It's hard to get convictions, the solution is to prevent rape in the first place, hammer people for fraternization, and for the love of god get girls to understand that they have to be more vigilant because sadly they are in a vulnerable state in the barracks.

raider8169
06-24-2013, 03:29 AM
for the love of god get girls to understand that they have to be more vigilant because sadly they are in a vulnerable state in the barracks.

I know what you mean by this but you word is really negativly. Girls should not have to be vigilant, instead males should not try and prey on every girl they see.

Nuckin Futs
06-24-2013, 03:37 AM
I know what you mean by this but you word is really negativly. Girls should not have to be vigilant, instead males should not try and prey on every girl they see.

I agree completely. Not for one second do I think that girls SHOULD have to be more vigilant. That said, we don't live in the world of should... They do. It sucks, but they do. I should be able to leave my wallet, phone and car keys on the front seat of my car with the windows down in the middle of Detroit. Do that and you stuff gets stolen. It sucks, but it is where we are as a society.

I don't see that vigilance as a long term solution. The long term solution is to get guys to stop raping girls(and guys, which is a bigger problem than people realize). In the interim though, it is an unfortunate necessity.

Your point though is well taken, because there are a lot of people who think that getting girls to live in an almost thunder dome level of awareness is the permanent solution and that is absurd.

Stalwart
06-24-2013, 02:36 PM
Girls should not have to be vigilant, instead males should not try and prey on every girl they see.

I agree with you, but would also offer that I am a bit vigilant when riding the Metro at night, going through a parking garage to get to my car, walking down the street in an unfamiliar neighborhood alone etc. I would be concerned if my wife were to be doing some of the same activities by herself in the same conditions. In a civilized society we should not have to look over our shoulder to watch out for fellow citizens that would harm us, but that is life too.

The military, while held to a higher standard than the average citizen, is still filled by members who come from society, and while we have people who are incredibly competent, motivated to serve and good people -- there will always be predators, thieves and other less than honorable people as well. It is just the law of averages.

Nuckin Futs
06-24-2013, 09:49 PM
Girls should not have to be vigilant, instead males should not try and prey on every girl they see.

That's the end state, but not the current world we live in. If I leave my wallet and car keys on the seat in Detroit or Baltimore they are walking away. Theoretically I should be able to do that and nobody should steal them....

They are in a very vulnerable situation in the barracks, far from home for the first time(for a lot of them), surrounded by people of their age group. Especially as it pertains to having male supervisors with bad intentions, it is a pretty bad situation.

I don't think we can punish our way out of it, we have to change the culture. Until that happens Girls have to be vigilant, as unfair as that is.

71Fish
06-24-2013, 10:04 PM
Agreed. It goes both ways. There's plenty of baseless rape claims, and there's plenty cases of - if you will - "legitimate rape" getting swept under the rug.

Is legitimate rape the same as "rape rape"?

Banned
06-24-2013, 10:12 PM
Is legitimate rape the same as "rape rape"?

Yes, the kind of rape where she said "no" like "NO", not "noooooooo"

efmbman
06-24-2013, 10:51 PM
I know what you mean by this but you word is really negativly. Girls should not have to be vigilant, instead males should not try and prey on every girl they see.

I am a well-trained combat veteran of 22 years and I am always vigilant. Not just for myself, but for my family. The fact is there are people in the world that choose to do bad things to others. It does not matter if it is right, wrong, legal or illegal. These things will happen to someone sometime. If one wishes to go through the world with the belief that karma will work everything out... or that someone out there should have taught the wrong-doers that they are wrong... that just does not make a lot of sense to me. I leave my car open and the keys in it... someone steals it... is there something I could have or should have done to prevent that? Absolutely.

Men should not rape women. I am not debating that. A woman usually does not ask to be raped or sexually assaulted (maybe some do, I do not want to generalize and offend someone that is seeking rape). However... there are things women can do (and should do) to minimize the risk. As military members, we were all exposed to risk management in operations. This is no different.

Sock Puppet
06-24-2013, 11:54 PM
I am a well-trained combat veteran of 22 years and I am always vigilant. Not just for myself, but for my family. The fact is there are people in the world that choose to do bad things to others. It does not matter if it is right, wrong, legal or illegal. These things will happen to someone sometime. If one wishes to go through the world with the belief that karma will work everything out... or that someone out there should have taught the wrong-doers that they are wrong... that just does not make a lot of sense to me. I leave my car open and the keys in it... someone steals it... is there something I could have or should have done to prevent that? Absolutely.

Men should not rape women. I am not debating that. A woman usually does not ask to be raped or sexually assaulted (maybe some do, I do not want to generalize and offend someone that is seeking rape). However... there are things women can do (and should do) to minimize the risk. As military members, we were all exposed to risk management in operations. This is no different.

I hear ya. Such a PC culture has been created that we don't want to offend a raper.

Sock Puppet
06-24-2013, 11:56 PM
Yes, the kind of rape where she said "no" like "NO", not "noooooooo"

I miss the good ol days when "no" meant "yes".

garhkal
06-25-2013, 09:33 PM
I am a well-trained combat veteran of 22 years and I am always vigilant. Not just for myself, but for my family. The fact is there are people in the world that choose to do bad things to others. It does not matter if it is right, wrong, legal or illegal. These things will happen to someone sometime. If one wishes to go through the world with the belief that karma will work everything out... or that someone out there should have taught the wrong-doers that they are wrong... that just does not make a lot of sense to me. I leave my car open and the keys in it... someone steals it... is there something I could have or should have done to prevent that? Absolutely.

Men should not rape women. I am not debating that. A woman usually does not ask to be raped or sexually assaulted (maybe some do, I do not want to generalize and offend someone that is seeking rape). However... there are things women can do (and should do) to minimize the risk. As military members, we were all exposed to risk management in operations. This is no different.

Should be saying "People should not be raping others" whether women raping men, men raping women, or otherwise..

efmbman
06-25-2013, 10:10 PM
Should be saying "People should not be raping others" whether women raping men, men raping women, or otherwise..

Very true. There are so many people to offend and so little time.