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View Full Version : Racism in the Racsim and sexism isn't just for republicans



JD2780
05-28-2013, 01:19 PM
http://www.eclectablog.com/2013/04/township-clerk-calls-her-township-supervisor-an-arrogant-nigger-and-yeah-shes-a-democrat.html

Wow, just wow. Kind of blatant on that one.

http://mobile.alternet.org/alternet/#!/entry/watch-jon-stewart-tears-into-racist-and-sexist-democrats,518cf323da27f5d9d0c07cb0/1

Once again democrats are showing they're just as as bad as republicans.

I remember using that derogatory word once growing up. My parents spoke loud and clear with an open palm. Didn't turn out well with me.

Rusty Jones
05-28-2013, 02:05 PM
Your second link was bad.

In your first link; it was made very clear that the person who wrote this article is also a Democrat; and that the person who said this has been cut off from the party. Not defended or justified by other Democrats; but shunned.

What I must point out, is that the GOP is the party that's always on the defensive about this. That says a lot.

The GOP in its modern form began with Richard Nixon's Southern Strategy; which was specifically designed to harness the racism of the South and use it to keep their party in power. That's what the Southern Strategy is all about; and it's the basis for today's GOP.

Then there's that famous interview with Republican Lee Atwater with how the Southern Strategy Works:


Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now [the new Southern Strategy of Ronald Reagan] doesn't have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he's campaigned on since 1964 and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.

Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

As you see here, Atwater actually admits that they speak in code. Instead of making laws targeting blacks; you make laws targeting certain things that have to do with blacks - and though it means you won't get every black person, and that there's going to be some white collateral damage; it's something that will suffice for them.

JD2780
05-28-2013, 02:08 PM
Your second link was bad.

In your first link; it was made very clear that the person who wrote this article is also a Democrat; and that the person who said this has been cut off from the party. Not defended or justified by other Democrats; but shunned.

What I must point out, is that the GOP is the party that's always on the defensive about this. That says a lot.

The GOP in its modern form began with Richard Nixon's Southern Strategy; which was specifically designed to harness the racism of the South and use it to keep their party in power. That's what the Southern Strategy is all about; and it's the basis for today's GOP.

Then there's that famous interview with Republican Lee Atwater with how the Southern Strategy Works:



As you see here, Atwater actually admits that they speak in code. Instead of making laws targeting blacks; you make laws targeting certain things that have to do with blacks - and though it means you won't get every black person, and that there's going to be some white collateral damage; it's something that will suffice for them.

Yes, not surprising it's from 68. Yes, and when some republicans say outlandish things many will shun them as well.

As for the second link I thought it would end up being bad. It's from the mobile site. Ill try to change it out.

Rusty Jones
05-28-2013, 02:09 PM
Lee Atwater's quote is actually from 1981.

JD2780
05-28-2013, 02:25 PM
Lee Atwater's quote is actually from 1981.

Misread it then. Ok so 32 years ago. This little gem said it a little more recently than that.

Measure Man
05-28-2013, 02:35 PM
Once again democrats are showing they're just as as bad as republicans.

No doubt a source of pride for the GOP.

JD2780
05-28-2013, 02:47 PM
As the saying goes, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Rusty Jones
05-28-2013, 02:53 PM
Misread it then. Ok so 32 years ago. This little gem said it a little more recently than that.

...and here's why that's important: Lee Atwater actually doesn't appear to be a racist guy himself. Richard Nixon? He's been quoted as saying some racist things, but nothing that indicated any intrinsic motivation to be malevolent with his racism.

What these Republican politicians were doing, whether they themselves were racist or not, was simply pandering to the racists in order to get their votes; so they can stay in power and have a job.

So how does that affect the GOP today? First, there are many Republicans from that time who still hold office. In addition, there are many young people who were brought up as actually racists from that time who the GOP was pandering to; that have no grown up, and are holding office.


No doubt a source of pride for the GOP.

The problem is, the GOP can point fingers at Democrats and say "ah ha!" whenever they feel that they've found their smoking gun; but the most that they will ever do with that is "win" an argument with a Democrat who says the GOP is racist. They will not, nor do they care to, actually CONVINCE minority voters of anything.

JD2780
05-28-2013, 04:53 PM
...and here's why that's important: Lee Atwater actually doesn't appear to be a racist guy himself. Richard Nixon? He's been quoted as saying some racist things, but nothing that indicated any intrinsic motivation to be malevolent with his racism.

What these Republican politicians were doing, whether they themselves were racist or not, was simply pandering to the racists in order to get their votes; so they can stay in power and have a job.

So how does that affect the GOP today? First, there are many Republicans from that time who still hold office. In addition, there are many young people who were brought up as actually racists from that time who the GOP was pandering to; that have no grown up, and are holding office.



The problem is, the GOP can point fingers at Democrats and say "ah ha!" whenever they feel that they've found their smoking gun; but the most that they will ever do with that is "win" an argument with a Democrat who says the GOP is racist. They will not, nor do they care to, actually CONVINCE minority voters of anything.

Personally, I like minority republicans. They tend invalidate the racist argument.

JD2780
05-28-2013, 07:25 PM
What makes me laugh on this whole front, is when a black guy tells another black guy :you're an arrogant N((((((" its ok, but if a white person says it the same way, with the same inflections, it all of a suddenly becomes racist...

Another double standard. Watch Comedy Central and you'll see the double standard. Black guy makes jokes about white people nd everybody laughs. White guy makes jokes about black people and isn't seen or heard from again!!

I've are plenty of black people tell me they hate it when they hear other black people refer to each other a n*gger. They say it completely undermines everything they've worked for. I tend to agree with them.

garhkal
05-28-2013, 07:28 PM
What makes me laugh on this whole front, is when a black guy tells another black guy :you're an arrogant N((((((" its ok, but if a white person says it the same way, with the same inflections, it all of a suddenly becomes racist...

JD2780
05-28-2013, 07:34 PM
What makes me laugh on this whole front, is when a black guy tells another black guy :you're an arrogant N((((((" its ok, but if a white person says it the same way, with the same inflections, it all of a suddenly becomes racist...

Another double standard. Watch Comedy Central and you'll see the double standard. Black guy makes jokes about white people nd everybody laughs. White guy makes jokes about black people and isn't seen or heard from again!!

I've are plenty of black people tell me they hate it when they hear other black people refer to each other a n*gger. They say it completely undermines everything they've worked for. I tend to agree with them.

Measure Man
05-28-2013, 07:39 PM
White guy makes jokes about black people and isn't seen or heard from again!!

You never watched Daniel Tosh?

- - - Updated - - -


As the saying goes, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Yeah, and "the other guys are just as bad as us"...is not a campaign slogan that inspires confidence.

Rusty Jones
05-28-2013, 10:47 PM
Personally, I like minority republicans. They tend invalidate the racist argument.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about. Minority Republicans may help you win an argument, but they're not going to convince anyone of anything. Minority Republicans are seen as defectors.


What makes me laugh on this whole front, is when a black guy tells another black guy :you're an arrogant N((((((" its ok, but if a white person says it the same way, with the same inflections, it all of a suddenly becomes racist...

That all depends. There are white folks who do it all the time, and have no problems. If you're white, and you grew up in the hood; and have the same mannerisms as the group using the word; you'll be alright. However, if you're just some random dude faking the intonation and everything, they're going to notice.


Another double standard. Watch Comedy Central and you'll see the double standard. Black guy makes jokes about white people nd everybody laughs. White guy makes jokes about black people and isn't seen or heard from again!!

For example?


I've are plenty of black people tell me they hate it when they hear other black people refer to each other a n*gger. They say it completely undermines everything they've worked for. I tend to agree with them.

Well, there certain post-slavery "eras" that you can divide the history of black American culture into. First, immediately following the Emancipation; black people were doing their damnedest to do exactly what today's conservatives say that want black people to do: integrate. They named their children the same names that white people named their children, their aspired to succeed the same way white people did and wanted the same opportunities, the dressed the same way white people did (to the extent that their finances allowed); you name it.

But despite all of those efforts, they were still denied integration into mainstream society.

Enter the 1960's, 100 year after the Emancipations. After 100 years of blacks trying to integrate, and repeatedly being denied. They finally decided that it was time for them to look to each other for validation. And this is where a unified black culture began to emerge; and where they made strong efforts to culturally distinguish themselves from whites - since whites had been rejecting them for a whole century. This is where black cultural aspects, such as "black names," started to emerge.

By this time; the damage had been done.

However, hope wasn't lost. After Jim Crow ended with the Civil Rights Era, into the 70's, black culture became "cool" and admired. Blaxpoitation films, soul music, you name it; everyone was into it. Then we move into the 1980's; and picture this: black TV shows, particularly black sitcoms, with high white viewership (unlike now, where movies and TV shows with mostly black casts are viewed as being made ONLY for black people, where movies and TV shows with only white casts are made for "everyone."). Remember The Cosby Show? How many people do we know, black, white, or otherwise, that didn't love that show?

While there was plenty of racism from the Jim Crow Era that had yet to die off; the following ten years showed obvious signs of progress. Black folks were on the move, and society was headed toward integration.

Then, in 1985, something happened. It didn't hurt race relations much, but it killed and scaled back the progress that blacks were making for themselves. What happened? The introduction of crack. Not just the drug itself, but the increased violence that it caused over turf wars when deciding who gets to sell where.

Even if it would have had a bad affect on race relations, something great happened started in the late 1980's that lasted into the early 1990's: the New Jack Swing Era. The time where we all loved similar music - Al B Sure, Milli Vanilli, Keith Sweat, George Michael, MC Hammer, Taylor Dayne, Color Me Badd, Kid n Play; music that we've all done "the running man" or "the Roger Rabbit" or any variation thereof to.

Then... the wedge between black and white started to be driven, when the LA Riots started. Although it was never the intent of grunge to do this (as early alternative/grunge in the 80's included artists like Tracy Chapman and Was (Not Was)), it began to lure away whites who felt alienated by the aftermath surrounding the LA Riots.

This mostly left hip hop and R&B with only black listeners, and the music became... "de-tamed" since they no longer felt that the appeal had to be universal, and their baggage from the riots was carried into it. The result was the rise of "gangsta rap," and the promotion of loveless sex in R&B music.

The final nail in the coffin wasn't there yet. The OJ trial took care of that.

The OJ trial brings us to where we are now, though I'm sure one could argue that the time after Obama's election might be distinguishable.

Banned
05-28-2013, 11:21 PM
Yeah, and "the other guys are just as bad as us"...is not a campaign slogan that inspires confidence.

Yet you hear it all the time from Republicans.

Homophobic Christian Republicans caught having homosexual sex in the men's room? No worries, the Democrats are just as bad. Obama saluted the Marines while talking on his cell phone.

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-04-2013, 05:05 PM
Another double standard. Watch Comedy Central and you'll see the double standard. Black guy makes jokes about white people nd everybody laughs. White guy makes jokes about black people and isn't seen or heard from again!!

Daniell Tosh. Just saying.

JD2780
06-04-2013, 05:17 PM
Wow GOP racist biggots. Nice one.

JD2780
06-04-2013, 05:19 PM
Daniell Tosh. Just saying.

True. There is one. Sarah Silverman is another. Yup, not many but there are a few.

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-04-2013, 05:24 PM
What is amazing is that even with all this supposed racism in the south and GOP being racist biggots, blacks are migrating in mass to the south and other red states. Guess it cant be all that bad. And you actually see more racism from minorities towards other minorities than you see from whites. Many people in the big liberal cities love their little segregated sections, and refuse to change and be part of the American culture. Lastly, to believe that the southerners have all ways been the same southerners or that people from the south have never moved north or west is rediculous. But to also believe that kids always follow their parents beliefs, that nieve in thinking, if it happened like that, Joe wouldnt be praising all those kids becoming athiest and there would have never been an end to slavery because the north loved slaves in the beginning too. Generations change in their thinking, just because the south was historically glamorized as racist while the north and west racisms were ignored, doesnt mean that the south is STILL perdominately racist as the north and west are now.

JD2780
06-04-2013, 05:26 PM
Wow GOP racist biggots. Nice one.

garhkal
06-04-2013, 07:40 PM
Many people in the big liberal cities love their little segregated sections, and refuse to change and be part of the American culture. Lastly, to believe that the southerners have all ways been the same southerners or that people from the south have never moved north or west is rediculous.


Yup.. Always hear about china towns, little tokyos, little saudi etc.. never any 'sweedish town' or britishville.

Banned
06-05-2013, 01:37 AM
Wow really we're complaining about Chinatown now?

Has it occurred to you that its possible to be American and still celebrate your roots... and that tourists like to go into a part of town that's different and exciting?

garhkal
06-05-2013, 03:43 AM
That it is.. BUT we are always being told by those advocating for allowing MORE immagration/amnesty for the illegals here, its cause they DO integrate into our society.. To me having those 'segments' are not what i consider integrating.

Banned
06-05-2013, 05:12 AM
That it is.. BUT we are always being told by those advocating for allowing MORE immagration/amnesty for the illegals here, its cause they DO integrate into our society.. To me having those 'segments' are not what i consider integrating.

What does Chinatown, Japantown, etc have to do with illegal immigration?

JD2780
06-05-2013, 11:30 AM
What does Chinatown, Japantown, etc have to do with illegal immigration?

Are you seriously asking that question JB? You think Mexicans are the only illegals.

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-05-2013, 01:45 PM
Wow really we're complaining about Chinatown now?

Has it occurred to you that its possible to be American and still celebrate your roots... and that tourists like to go into a part of town that's different and exciting?

No complaining, just pointing out that people like to cry about the southern racism undertones, when liberal cities are full of grand displays of racism and segregation.

JD2780
06-05-2013, 01:57 PM
No complaining, just pointing out that people like to cry about the southern racism undertones, when liberal cities are full of grand displays of racism and segregation.

That's impossible. Only southerners, Christians and the GOP can be racist.

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-05-2013, 02:02 PM
That's impossible. Only southerners, Christians and the GOP can be racist.

But no proof or examples of why that out weigh what liberals do all the time. Its horrible the way a minority conservative is treated by the left, but there is no examples the liberals give to say why minorities shouldnt be part of the GOP. Its all about the guilt trip.

JD2780
06-05-2013, 02:49 PM
Seen quite a few Germantowns, though.

You've heard of southie though!!

Measure Man
06-05-2013, 02:52 PM
Yup.. Always hear about china towns, little tokyos, little saudi etc.. never any 'sweedish town' or britishville.

Seen quite a few Germantowns, though.

JD2780
06-05-2013, 02:54 PM
I don't know what that means.

It's the Irish part of south Boston.

Greg
06-05-2013, 03:00 PM
It's the Irish part of south Boston.

I remember being part of the parade one March 17th, some years ago. Well, the first half of it.

JD2780
06-05-2013, 03:00 PM
Seen quite a few Germantowns, though.

You've heard of southie though!!

Measure Man
06-05-2013, 03:01 PM
You've heard of southie though!!

I don't know what that means.

JD2780
06-05-2013, 03:05 PM
I don't know what that means.

It's the Irish part of south Boston.

Banned
06-05-2013, 05:49 PM
That's impossible. Only southerners, Christians and the GOP can be racist.

And you wonder why I don't take Christian conservatives seriously. You can only justify yourselves by the bad behavior of others.


Are you seriously asking that question JB? You think Mexicans are the only illegals.

And once again your ignorance and racism is on display. I didn't even mention Mexicans, but you automatically associate "illegal" with "Mexican".

The vast majority of any of these racial or ethnic groups are legal immigrants and citizens.


No complaining, just pointing out that people like to cry about the southern racism undertones, when liberal cities are full of grand displays of racism and segregation.

You must have a really hard, bitter life. I see Chinatown and think "fun". You see Chinatown and think "OMG liberal racism". Gimme a break dude!


But no proof or examples of why that out weigh what liberals do all the time. Its horrible the way a minority conservative is treated by the left, but there is no examples the liberals give to say why minorities shouldnt be part of the GOP. Its all about the guilt trip.

I'm not entirely sure what you were trying to say here.

TJMAC77SP
06-05-2013, 05:54 PM
And you wonder why I don't take Christian conservatives seriously. You can only justify yourselves by the bad behavior of others.

Come on Joe you know what he meant by that sarcasm.

Banned
06-05-2013, 05:56 PM
Come on Joe you know what he meant by that sarcasm.

But as I think you know that the underlying point was perfectly serious, not sarcasm. Instead of solving and eliminating bad behavior on the Right, Republicans are more concerned about scouring the left for supposed equivalent bad behavior.

Banned
06-05-2013, 06:02 PM
Well, I don't KNOW what is in JD's mind but I read it as an indictment of myopic hyperbole posted on this forum.

I'm tying it in with his other recent thread stating (correctly) that there is also racism on the left... expecting that to be some sort of validation for hiw own party's flaws.

Banned
06-05-2013, 06:03 PM
Well, I don't KNOW what is in JD's mind but I read it as an indictment of myopic hyperbole posted on this forum.

I'm tying it in with his other recent thread stating (correctly) that there is also racism on the left... expecting that to be some sort of validation for hiw own party's flaws.

TJMAC77SP
06-05-2013, 06:09 PM
But as I think you know that the underlying point was perfectly serious, not sarcasm. Instead of solving and eliminating bad behavior on the Right, Republicans are more concerned about scouring the left for supposed equivalent bad behavior.

Well, I don't KNOW what is in JD's mind but I read it as an indictment of myopic hyperbole posted on this forum.

JD2780
06-05-2013, 06:35 PM
I'm tying it in with his other recent thread stating (correctly) that there is also racism on the left... expecting that to be some sort of validation for hiw own party's flaws.

Keep chucking stones from the glass house.

As for the Mexicans being the only I illegals it was sarcasm JB.

No wonder I don't take liberal extremists seriously.

Banned
06-06-2013, 06:38 AM
Well, I don't KNOW what is in JD's mind but I read it as an indictment of myopic hyperbole posted on this forum.

I don't KNOW what's in his mind either, nor am I attempting to guess motivation - just pointing out behaviorial patterns. And I think even you can see it -

"Yeah, the Republicans did X, but look, the Democrats did Y, that makes X okay, or at least not so bad!"

TJMAC77SP
06-06-2013, 10:47 AM
I don't KNOW what's in his mind either, nor am I attempting to guess motivation - just pointing out behaviorial patterns. And I think even you can see it -

"Yeah, the Republicans did X, but look, the Democrats did Y, that makes X okay, or at least not so bad!"

Maybe I did misunderstand him becuase I thought his post was aimed at you and your posts, not Democrats or liberals or anyone else.

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-06-2013, 11:24 AM
And you wonder why I don't take Christian conservatives seriously. You can only justify yourselves by the bad behavior of others.And you dont see the from the left? These secret email accounts to by pass the FOIA is attributed to what some Bush appointees did, so its ok for all of Obama's team and possibly Obama him self to have secret email addresses. No one is trying to excuse the GOP of any "wrong" behavior, just trying to point out that the left is more wrong and more open about their behavior, but still gets a pass.


And once again your ignorance and racism is on display. I didn't even mention Mexicans, but you automatically associate "illegal" with "Mexican".

The vast majority of any of these racial or ethnic groups are legal immigrants and citizens.Speaking of ignorance, what race is Mexican?


You must have a really hard, bitter life. I see Chinatown and think "fun". You see Chinatown and think "OMG liberal racism". Gimme a break dude!

So you would be ok with "redneckville" if the handed out stars and bars flags and free samples of meth as long as they did it in a "fun" atmosphere? I dont care to shut down Chinatown, just dont try to say the south is racist just because they dont vote democrat.


I'm not entirely sure what you were trying to say here.
Can you make the clear argument of why you think the south or GOP is more racists than the left or the rest of the country?

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-06-2013, 11:31 AM
I don't KNOW what's in his mind either, nor am I attempting to guess motivation - just pointing out behaviorial patterns. And I think even you can see it -

"Yeah, the Republicans did X, but look, the Democrats did Y, that makes X okay, or at least not so bad!"

Well, you see here we have a clear example of open and deliberate racism from the left, now try to counter that with something from the right, and then you can say he is trying to make that argument. Right now all I see is showing you the difference between true racism from the left and giving you a chance to counter with something from the right. Rusty tried with the "southern strategy" from 30 years ago, how about something a little more current?

Rusty Jones
06-06-2013, 11:52 AM
You know; I've stated this before. No matter how much the right digs something up from the left in order to say "Aha! You guys are just as bad," or "You guys are the real racists" - at the end of the day, you can argue with someone from the left, and you might win that argument by way of leaving someone from the left with nothing to say to counter your rhetoric.

But at the end of the day, that's all you've done. You've won an argument.

What you've failed to do, is actually convince anyone of anything. And the voting trends among women and minorities reflect this; and will continue to do so for a long time.

JD2780
06-06-2013, 11:57 AM
You know; I've stated this before. No matter how much the right digs something up from the left in order to say "Aha! You guys are just as bad," or "You guys are the real racists" - at the end of the day, you can argue with someone from the left, and you might win that argument by way of leaving someone from the left with nothing to say to counter your rhetoric.

But at the end of the day, that's all you've done. You've won an argument.

What you've failed to do, is actually convince anyone of anything. And the voting trends among women and minorities reflect this; and will continue to do so for a long time.

Sounds familiar. Like it belongs on a different thread.

The left like to make promises and then switch it around. How did Gitmo turn out?

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-06-2013, 12:10 PM
You know; I've stated this before. No matter how much the right digs something up from the left in order to say "Aha! You guys are just as bad," or "You guys are the real racists" - at the end of the day, you can argue with someone from the left, and you might win that argument by way of leaving someone from the left with nothing to say to counter your rhetoric.

But at the end of the day, that's all you've done. You've won an argument.

What you've failed to do, is actually convince anyone of anything. And the voting trends among women and minorities reflect this; and will continue to do so for a long time.

Yep, its the brain washing and the guilt trip the left is great at. No matter what, you can show time and time again that the left today is the left of yesterday, but it doesnt make a difference to the "lo-fo" voters cause they only do what they have been told to do for decades.

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 01:13 PM
You know; I've stated this before. No matter how much the right digs something up from the left in order to say "Aha! You guys are just as bad," or "You guys are the real racists" - at the end of the day, you can argue with someone from the left, and you might win that argument by way of leaving someone from the left with nothing to say to counter your rhetoric.

But at the end of the day, that's all you've done. You've won an argument.

What you've failed to do, is actually convince anyone of anything. And the voting trends among women and minorities reflect this; and will continue to do so for a long time.

I'm convinced. You mad, bro? Pfft

JD2780
06-06-2013, 01:13 PM
Do you not have it in you to try to counter what I just said?



So you're going to try to win over those voters by questioning their intelligence? Great tactic, bud.

And that's the problem. Not only does the right fail to convince anyone of anything, but they're not making any real effort because they don't even care to.

Nixon's Southern Strategy - today, still the basis for the Republican Party that makes it a distinct entity from the one that Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, and Lincoln belonged to; and the one that rightfully earned the racist reputation that the GOP has. And until the GOP sheds that Southern Strategy, this is going to continue.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Lee Atwater, who served under Reagan and explain his implementation of the Southern Strategy, explained it best.

Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now [the new Southern Strategy of Ronald Reagan] doesn't have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he's campaigned on since 1964 and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.

Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

The Republican Party didn't gain the votes of blacks in the 1860's by questioning their intelligence. The Democratic Party didn't win them over with that tactic in the 1940's, either. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

Counter it? Like what? Tell you that you're doing the exact same thing in a different thread. Just bashing something you disagree with to try and win an argument on the Internet. Sure.

What your failing to do is convince anyone of anything.

Rusty Jones
06-06-2013, 01:16 PM
Sounds familiar. Like it belongs on a different thread.

The left like to make promises and then switch it around. How did Gitmo turn out?

Do you not have it in you to try to counter what I just said?


Yep, its the brain washing and the guilt trip the left is great at. No matter what, you can show time and time again that the left today is the left of yesterday, but it doesnt make a difference to the "lo-fo" voters cause they only do what they have been told to do for decades.

So you're going to try to win over those voters by questioning their intelligence? Great tactic, bud.

And that's the problem. Not only does the right fail to convince anyone of anything, but they're not making any real effort because they don't even care to.

Nixon's Southern Strategy - today, still the basis for the Republican Party that makes it a distinct entity from the one that Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, and Lincoln belonged to; and the one that rightfully earned the racist reputation that the GOP has. And until the GOP sheds that Southern Strategy, this is going to continue.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Lee Atwater, who served under Reagan and explain his implementation of the Southern Strategy, explained it best.

Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now [the new Southern Strategy of Ronald Reagan] doesn't have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he's campaigned on since 1964 and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.

Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

The Republican Party didn't gain the votes of blacks in the 1860's by questioning their intelligence. The Democratic Party didn't win them over with that tactic in the 1940's, either. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

JD2780
06-06-2013, 01:22 PM
Do you not have it in you to try to counter what I just said?



So you're going to try to win over those voters by questioning their intelligence? Great tactic, bud.

And that's the problem. Not only does the right fail to convince anyone of anything, but they're not making any real effort because they don't even care to.

Nixon's Southern Strategy - today, still the basis for the Republican Party that makes it a distinct entity from the one that Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, and Lincoln belonged to; and the one that rightfully earned the racist reputation that the GOP has. And until the GOP sheds that Southern Strategy, this is going to continue.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Lee Atwater, who served under Reagan and explain his implementation of the Southern Strategy, explained it best.

Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now [the new Southern Strategy of Ronald Reagan] doesn't have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he's campaigned on since 1964 and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.

Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

The Republican Party didn't gain the votes of blacks in the 1860's by questioning their intelligence. The Democratic Party didn't win them over with that tactic in the 1940's, either. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

Counter it? Like what? Tell you that you're doing the exact same thing in a different thread. Just bashing something you disagree with to try and win an argument on the Internet. Sure.

What your failing to do is convince anyone of anything.

Rusty Jones
06-06-2013, 01:25 PM
Counter it? Like what? Tell you that you're doing the exact same thing in a different thread. Just bashing something you disagree with to try and win an argument on the Internet. Sure.

I may be doing that, but at least it's in a counter to your statements.


What your failing to do is convince anyone of anything.

And I'm not even trying. And it's not because I don't care. It's because these coded beliefs that Atwater is referring to... GOP voters know damned well that the GOP holds these beliefs, and most agree with these beliefs themselves; but they're just simply in denial that they, and their party, actually holds such beliefs.

I can't convince you of something that you already know to be true. Whether you're in denial or not.

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 01:42 PM
I may be doing that, but at least it's in a counter to your statements.



And I'm not even trying. And it's not because I don't care. It's because these coded beliefs that Atwater is referring to... GOP voters know damned well that the GOP holds these beliefs, and most agree with these beliefs themselves; but they're just simply in denial that they, and their party, actually holds such beliefs.

I can't convince you of something that you already know to be true. Whether you're in denial or not.

Pfft......

JD2780
06-06-2013, 01:42 PM
I may be doing that, but at least it's in a counter to your statements.



And I'm not even trying. And it's not because I don't care. It's because these coded beliefs that Atwater is referring to... GOP voters know damned well that the GOP holds these beliefs, and most agree with these beliefs themselves; but they're just simply in denial that they, and their party, actually holds such beliefs.

I can't convince you of something that you already know to be true. Whether you're in denial or not.

What that the dems chuck the same stones from the glass house?

I don't think they're racist. It's ok though, the dems always like play victim.

Rusty Jones
06-06-2013, 01:51 PM
Pfft......

Well, it was a long and drawn out battle; but it turns out that Team Religion has just lost someone in battle - sandsjames! It looks like he can't continue. You guys are one man short now.


What that the dems chuck the same stones from the glass house?

I don't think they're racist. It's ok though, the dems always like play victim.

Okay, then; so do you much about the Southern Strategy? It's a pretty quick read; will probably only take you about ten minutes to get you up to speed. If you'd rather me do the legwork, I can provide links. So, then; I actually would like to know, in context of knowing of the Southern Strategy, how the Republican Party isn't deserving of its reputation as the racist party.

Rusty Jones
06-06-2013, 01:53 PM
Do you really believe there is anywhere logical for the conversation still to go? You're a smart guy. You must realize that it has run it's course. We are now in (and have been for awhile) a "I know you are but what am I" stage. Why continue to repeat the same arguments? What's the point? Pfft...

Umm... what are you doing outside of the penalty box? Go back and sitdown, until we can find a rule that gets you out of it!

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 01:57 PM
Umm... what are you doing outside of the penalty box? Go back and sitdown, until we can find a rule that gets you out of it!

So now you're the ref? Must be a replacement official...

JD2780
06-06-2013, 01:58 PM
Well, it was a long and drawn out battle; but it turns out that Team Religion has just lost someone in battle - sandsjames! It looks like he can't continue. You guys are one man short now.



Okay, then; so do you much about the Southern Strategy? It's a pretty quick read; will probably only take you about ten minutes to get you up to speed. If you'd rather me do the legwork, I can provide links. So, then; I actually would like to know, in context of knowing of the Southern Strategy, how the Republican Party isn't deserving of its reputation as the racist party.

Oh yea, an out dated strategy. Good reference.

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 01:59 PM
Well, it was a long and drawn out battle; but it turns out that Team Religion has just lost someone in battle - sandsjames! It looks like he can't continue. You guys are one man short now. Do you really believe there is anywhere logical for the conversation still to go? You're a smart guy. You must realize that it has run it's course. We are now in (and have been for awhile) a "I know you are but what am I" stage. Why continue to repeat the same arguments? What's the point? Pfft...

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-06-2013, 02:01 PM
So you're going to try to win over those voters by questioning their intelligence? Great tactic, bud.You can lead a horse to water but you can make it drink. I dont need to question their intelligence, it plain to see when they dont know anything about the POTUS policies and are so misinformed on the opposition that they actually believe things like Palin said she "could see Russia from her house".


And that's the problem. Not only does the right fail to convince anyone of anything, but they're not making any real effort because they don't even care to.I am not of the right either BTW, they are pretty "lo-fo" voters as well. Try talking to them about how they love freedom and what not, then talk to them about gay marriage or leagalizing weed, and they revert back to their progressive stance of more government control on those issues.


Nixon's Southern Strategy - today, still the basis for the Republican Party that makes it a distinct entity from the one that Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, and Lincoln belonged to; and the one that rightfully earned the racist reputation that the GOP has. And until the GOP sheds that Southern Strategy, this is going to continue.But you dont show how they are the same today, 30 years after Nixon. What part of Nixons strat is still in play?


I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Lee Atwater, who served under Reagan and explain his implementation of the Southern Strategy, explained it best.

Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now [the new Southern Strategy of Ronald Reagan] doesn't have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he's campaigned on since 1964 and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.

Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

The Republican Party didn't gain the votes of blacks in the 1860's by questioning their intelligence. The Democratic Party didn't win them over with that tactic in the 1940's, either. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

And you honestly believe that the south is still the same as it was 30+ years ago? Hell, according to you propagandist, the GOP changed in 20 years from being the party FOR civil liberties to the party against. You cant really believe that the GOP is actually going after the south because of the "racist" that live there, because it is one of the highest desity of minorities of the US. And blacks are moving to the south in mass. That is a losing tactic to keep if that is what they are still doing. Its pretty sad to think the party that did everything in it power to keep blacks down from its creation gets all the credit for civil rights, yet in every liberal city, you see the worse neighborhoods and crime and poverty levels for all minorities than you see in the south. Even southern liberal cities, minorities are far below the curve in these areas. Atl, Macon, Jacksonville, Tampa, Montgomery, Charlotte, Miami, just horrible places for minorities if you look at crime, employment, poverty, and schooling. Keep believing the Dems are all about bolstering the minorites, but look at what their policies produce, nothing but generational well-fare and jails full of minorities.

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 02:05 PM
Well, it was a long and drawn out battle; but it turns out that Team Religion has just lost someone in battle - sandsjames! It looks like he can't continue. You guys are one man short now.



Okay, then; so do you much about the Southern Strategy? It's a pretty quick read; will probably only take you about ten minutes to get you up to speed. If you'd rather me do the legwork, I can provide links. So, then; I actually would like to know, in context of knowing of the Southern Strategy, how the Republican Party isn't deserving of its reputation as the racist party.

Southern Strategy or no Southern Strategy, the GOP gets the reputation for views on things like Affirmative Action and welfare. Of course what the other side doesn't realize is that these policies have, in the past and, will continue to be programs that don't make minorities any stronger. In an effort to bring people up another level, while the Democrats continue to keep minorities down at a certain level, the GOP has been viewed as racist.

Banned
06-06-2013, 05:33 PM
Believes in Christianity, doesn't believe in evolution...

EMBRACES SOCIAL DARWINISM

Makes perfect sense...

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 05:42 PM
Believes in Christianity, doesn't believe in evolution... Wrong...more like this...Doesn't believe in Christianity, believes in Christ. Believes in evolution. Believes that evolution still continues as we adapt to our surroundings and our surroundings adapt to us. Just doesn't believe that we came from a single cell. Creation and evolution can coexist. Just as creation and the Big Bang can coexist.

Here's my argument against people evolving from a single cell. The orgasm. How did the awesome feeling of an orgasm evolve? Did people not have sex before the sensation was there? What would be the purpose? How would one have even known what to do? If there's no sensation with it, then how would procreation ever have begun? So, once we evolved into mating creatures, what kept us from immediately going extinct? Or did we all the sudden evolve into with the sensation of an orgasm leading us to procreation all at once? There is no doubt that God gave us the orgasm, both to ensure procreation and to test us with lust.

As far as social Darwinism, that's not my thing, either. I'm not for the "only the strong survive" thing. I'm for the "make the weak strong without making the strong weak" thing that socialism pushes for. I don't want anyone to be poor. I don't want anyone to suffer. I want people to be shown that they can succeed. I don't want to keep them dependent.

EMBRACES SOCIAL DARWINISM

Makes perfect sense...[/QUOTE]

TJMAC77SP
06-06-2013, 05:46 PM
Believes in Christianity, doesn't believe in evolution...

EMBRACES SOCIAL DARWINISM

Makes perfect sense...

Religious faith like most beliefs is rarely an 'all or nothing' situation. I realize it makes it much easier to make your argument but it is a logic fail

Rusty Jones
06-06-2013, 06:34 PM
Southern Strategy or no Southern Strategy, the GOP gets the reputation for views on things like Affirmative Action and welfare.

If you would have taken a little bit more time to digest Lee Atwater's explanation of the Southern Strategy after reading it, you would've known that these stances on welfare and Affirmative Action are all a part of the Southern Strategy. Lee Atwater explicitly mentioned a few programs - like food stamps and bussing.


Of course what the other side doesn't realize is that these policies have, in the past and, will continue to be programs that don't make minorities any stronger. In an effort to bring people up another level, while the Democrats continue to keep minorities down at a certain level, the GOP has been viewed as racist.

Here's the problem. If I recall correctly, it was Rick Santorum who preached so much about "a hand up, not a hand out."

Which is all fine and dandy - because if you don't provide one, then certainly the other is necessary.

But where is the "hand up"? The GOP doesn't want to give people fish; fine. Where are the programs that are supported by the GOP that teach people how to fish?

The truth is, middle and lower class GOP voters are tools. I could write a whole book on this.

This is another issue that I have with "democracy" - the illusion of equality. The people in power will tell you that you're equal to them, and that with "hard work," you can have what they have. They don't believe this crap. But the peoples' wishful thinking asses do.

Why did socialism succeed in Europe and elsewhere abroad? Because these countries have a history of royalty and nobility behind them. If they don't have it now, they did in the past, and it still affects their culture today. With the ranks of nobility and royalty, the peasants, and the common people... everyone in these societies knew their place. If you were poor, you knew you were poor. If you were privileged, you knew you were privileged. You were never told the lie that "we're all equal" and that if you "work hard," you can be among the highly influential. No, your "place" in society was established as law of the land.

It's no wonder that socialism is accepted in so many places outside of the US. Here? Oh no, just in case I get my "break" I don't anyone taking my money (because here in America, we all think we're going to get that "break," don't we?).

But... wait a second, that thing I said about people not knowing their place in America? I take that back - minorities! There were laws stating what their place in society was. And it still affects the culture today, just as royalty and nobility affects the culture of European countries today, regardless of whether or not they are still monarchies.

Minorities, unlike middle class and poor whites, know their place in society. For most of their time in the US, the government and society never hesitated to remind them of their place if they got out of line.

The illusion of equality was never a part of their culture. Middle class and poor whites have been fed these lies of equality and "work hard and you can be like me" for 400 years now. Minorities have only been fed these lies for the past 45.

This should say a lot for GOP votership among the various races and ethnicities.

Banned
06-06-2013, 06:36 PM
I'm convinced. You mad, bro? Pfft

Any other children gotten cancer lately because of what they did to Magic Sky Man's world?

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-06-2013, 06:56 PM
If you would have taken a little bit more time to digest Lee Atwater's explanation of the Southern Strategy after reading it, you would've known that these stances on welfare and Affirmative Action are all a part of the Southern Strategy. Lee Atwater explicitly mentioned a few programs - like food stamps and bussing.Man, you guys really believe Lee was a profit or something?


Here's the problem. If I recall correctly, it was Rick Santorum who preached so much about "a hand up, not a hand out."

Which is all fine and dandy - because if you don't provide one, then certainly the other is necessary.

But where is the "hand up"? The GOP doesn't want to give people fish; fine. Where are the programs that are supported by the GOP that teach people how to fish?Who's going to take the fishing lessons when the fish are already provided to you for free with no work involved?

There are many lessons, and they are called grants, scholarships, and free education. But all those require work and some people see how much easier it is to get the free fish instead.


The truth is, middle and lower class GOP voters are tools. I could write a whole book on this.So are liberal minority voters.


This is another issue that I have with "democracy" - the illusion of equality. The people in power will tell you that you're equal to them, and that with "hard work," you can have what they have. They don't believe this crap. But the peoples' wishful thinking asses do.So thats why the dems pacify their voting blocks with free stuff? The simple luxuries like cell phones, food, place to stay and free health care?


Why did socialism succeed in Europe and elsewhere abroad? Because these countries have a history of royalty and nobility behind them. If they don't have it now, they did in the past, and it still affects their culture today. With the ranks of nobility and royalty, the peasants, and the common people... everyone in these societies knew their place. If you were poor, you knew you were poor. If you were privileged, you knew you were privileged. You were never told the lie that "we're all equal" and that if you "work hard," you can be among the highly influential. No, your "place" in society was established as law of the land.Where is this "success"? How are you measuring success? Man, if only you were a dem back in slavery or jim crow you would have fit right in and kept "those people" in their place. If you could have only been in charge of Allen West, Cain, Bill Gates, Obama, Steve Jobs, George Soros, etc, you could have kept them in poverty so that way they really knew their place. If only we could go back to nobility and royalty, then all these new millionaires and successful people could stay in the streets instead of taking money from the Rich people that rightfully deserve the money not already theirs.


It's no wonder that socialism is accepted in so many places outside of the US. Here? Oh no, just in case I get my "break" I don't anyone taking my money (because here in America, we all think we're going to get that "break," don't we?).Some people want that break given to them, they are called liberals. Some people want the break to just happen cause they are who they are, they are called conservatives. Then there are people that make the break happen, they are usually Libertarians.


But... wait a second, that thing I said about people not knowing their place in America? I take that back - minorities! There were laws stating what their place in society was. And it still affects the culture today, just as royalty and nobility affects the culture of European countries today, regardless of whether or not they are still monarchies.Thats if they chose to relive that culture. Many minorities jsut getting here and the generational asians have put that BS aside and make their own place at the top. Victimism, liberals best defense of why they are still poor.


Minorities, unlike middle class and poor whites, know their place in society. For most of their time in the US, the government and society never hesitated to remind them of their place if they got out of line.Irish seem to have no problem changing their place in life. Same with Asians. Usually legal mexican migrants do pretty well too. Even new Africans get a move on the social ladder.


The illusion of equality was never a part of their culture. Middle class and poor whites have been fed these lies of equality and "work hard and you can be like me" for 400 years now. Minorities have only been fed these lies for the past 45.So it hasnt sunk in yet? What about the minorities that "make it" and still live like they are in "da hood"? They are called rappers. Its a maturaty thing, and when you are being provided for your whole life, and you see your parents being provided for, you dont grow up to respect money. Generally, you blow it off like someone is just going to give it to you again. Thats not ingrained over centuries, it happens from the time you are born. The work ethics. And also being happy with what you have instead of always looking for more "stuff".


This should say a lot for GOP votership among the various races and ethnicities.
Well, again, Asians dont believe that, neither do Jews, but they are heavy democrat voters none the less.

garhkal
06-06-2013, 07:02 PM
And you dont see the from the left? These secret email accounts to by pass the FOIA is attributed to what some Bush appointees did, so its ok for all of Obama's team and possibly Obama him self to have secret email addresses. No one is trying to excuse the GOP of any "wrong" behavior, just trying to point out that the left is more wrong and more open about their behavior, but still gets a pass.

Speaking of ignorance, what race is Mexican?

To defend Joe, Latino is a race (as defined by all the forms i have ever filled out that asks for your racial ethnicity).. And since being mexician means you are Latino, it could be crossed..

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-06-2013, 07:13 PM
To defend Joe, Latino is a race (as defined by all the forms i have ever filled out that asks for your racial ethnicity).. And since being mexician means you are Latino, it could be crossed..

So its a sub race then? There are only 3 races, but off shoots after that. And the boxes I see are asking if you have latino in your blood after you identify you are white or black.

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 07:57 PM
Any other children gotten cancer lately because of what they did to Magic Sky Man's world?

Not because of what they did...because of what we did.

Rusty Jones
06-06-2013, 07:59 PM
Man, you guys really believe Lee was a profit or something?

Until very recently, the GOP actually denied that he said this. It was something of an urban legend, up until a few months ago when Jimmy Carter's grandson released the tape of Atwater saying this.

That the GOP was in denial of this... really says a lot.


Who's going to take the fishing lessons when the fish are already provided to you for free with no work involved?

Contrary to popular belief, those who are getting the fish handed to them are getting low quality and quantity. Try spending in a neighborhood full of welfare recipients if you don't believe me.


There are many lessons, and they are called grants, scholarships, and free education. But all those require work and some people see how much easier it is to get the free fish instead.

You mean things that the GOP has been trying to do away with for decades?


So thats why the dems pacify their voting blocks with free stuff? The simple luxuries like cell phones, food, place to stay and free health care?

Since when did these things become "luxuries"? The only thing you mentioned that could arguably be considered a "luxury" is a cell phone, but in a day and age where one must be reachable 24/7 - where one missed phone call could mean one missed job offer - it's safe to say that cell phones are now a necessity. The same way computers and the internet have become, when it became the only way to apply for jobs.


Where is this "success"? How are you measuring success? Man, if only you were a dem back in slavery or jim crow you would have fit right in and kept "those people" in their place.

Not quite. There's a famous quote by Harriet Tubman. I don't know it verbatim, but it goes something like "In my life, I have freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more, if only they knew that they were slaves."

You get where I'm going with this? When there's no question as to what your place in society is, you know that something needs to be done about the situation. You won't do anything if you don't know.

If I had to guess, if there actually were slaves who didn't know that there were slaves (as Harriet Tubman's quote suggests), then were slave masters who did exactly to those slaves what the GOP does to today's middle and lower class whites.


If you could have only been in charge of Allen West, Cain, Bill Gates, Obama, Steve Jobs, George Soros, etc, you could have kept them in poverty so that way they really knew their place. If only we could go back to nobility and royalty, then all these new millionaires and successful people could stay in the streets instead of taking money from the Rich people that rightfully deserve the money not already theirs.

They may have worked for what they had, but they were also afforded opportunities that a very select few will ever see.


Some people want that break given to them, they are called liberals. Some people want the break to just happen cause they are who they are, they are called conservatives. Then there are people that make the break happen, they are usually Libertarians.

Right... I guess that's why all of those corporate executives and other movers & shakers were backing Ron Paul over Mitt Romney. Oh, wait...


Thats if they chose to relive that culture. Many minorities jsut getting here and the generational asians have put that BS aside and make their own place at the top.

What, because they own a nail shop? You can't be serious.


Victimism, liberals best defense of why they are still poor.

I think that the best explanation was the 40 acres and a mule that never happened during Reconstruction. You know, giving the newly freed slaves an asset that could be passed down. Something that non-slaves at the time generally had.


Irish seem to have no problem changing their place in life.

That's because this was before Jim Crow was over. When second and subsequent generation Irishmen lost their accents, no one could tell them from a WASP. THAT'S why.


Same with Asians. Usually legal mexican migrants do pretty well too. Even new Africans get a move on the social ladder.

People who don't have that same history with whites, as African Americans do.


So it hasnt sunk in yet? What about the minorities that "make it" and still live like they are in "da hood"? They are called rappers. Its a maturaty thing, and when you are being provided for your whole life, and you see your parents being provided for, you dont grow up to respect money. Generally, you blow it off like someone is just going to give it to you again. Thats not ingrained over centuries, it happens from the time you are born. The work ethics. And also being happy with what you have instead of always looking for more "stuff".

Do you know the history behind the concept of being "nigger rich," or the more euphemistic term, "hood rich?" (By the way, I personally don't care which term you choose to use)

Housing discrimination. Once upon a time, it didn't matter how many money you had. You could have enough money to buy a particular house five times over, but if you weren't white, you weren't wanted in that neighborhood, and that house wasn't going to be sold to you most case(however, there were cases of houses in white neighborhoods being sold to blacks for several times the value).

Why is this significant? Because most blacks who ran into money - whether someone who had a relative die and are getting the insurance money, or even working hard and "making it" - could not leave "the hood," even if they wanted to. Even though they had money.

So what did they do with all of the money that they had? The only thing that they could: spend it. So now, they had expensive jewelry, Cadillacs, and Lincolns. Because they couldn't do anything else with the money.

And everyone in the neighborhood watching the guy who ran into the money and was buying all these nice things? They all wanted to be just like him.

So now, over the decades, it became culture.



Well, again, Asians dont believe that, neither do Jews, but they are heavy democrat voters none the less.

Bullshit. Look at the history of how Jews were treated in Europe, of the fact that EVERY country in Far East Asia that exists today has a history of royalty and nobility behind it.

ThaBufe
06-06-2013, 08:09 PM
And you wonder why I don't take Christian conservatives seriously. You can only justify yourselves by the bad behavior of others.


What's truely absurd is the assertion that one person must justify or bear responsibility for the behavior of another individual simply because the two aggree on other unrelated issues.

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 08:30 PM
Collective punishment? So its bad for the rich to be "forced" to pay for starving children... but its okay for starving children to be punished for the crimes of the rich?

It's bad for anyone to be forced, by the government, to do anything. And why do you keep saying the children are being punished? They are not. Sickness happens. It is a result of the choices humans have made. It's up to us to stop it, not up to God. He's already shown us/told us what we're supposed to do. We just have to choose to do it. If we did it, there wouldn't be sickness. Not because God keeps it away, but because we are staying away from those things that cause the sickness.

Banned
06-06-2013, 08:36 PM
Not because of what they did...because of what we did.

Collective punishment? So its bad for the rich to be "forced" to pay for starving children... but its okay for starving children to be punished for the crimes of the rich?

Banned
06-06-2013, 08:36 PM
It's bad for anyone to be forced, by the government, to do anything. And why do you keep saying the children are being punished? They are not. Sickness happens. It is a result of the choices humans have made. It's up to us to stop it, not up to God. He's already shown us/told us what we're supposed to do. We just have to choose to do it. If we did it, there wouldn't be sickness. Not because God keeps it away, but because we are staying away from those things that cause the sickness.

So again - why do children have to suffer for the choices someone else made? That's pretty fucked up.

Banned
06-06-2013, 08:37 PM
It's bad for anyone to be forced, by the government, to do anything. And why do you keep saying the children are being punished? They are not. Sickness happens. It is a result of the choices humans have made. It's up to us to stop it, not up to God. He's already shown us/told us what we're supposed to do. We just have to choose to do it. If we did it, there wouldn't be sickness. Not because God keeps it away, but because we are staying away from those things that cause the sickness.

So again - why do children have to suffer for the choices someone else made? That's pretty fucked up.

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 08:40 PM
Collective punishment? So its bad for the rich to be "forced" to pay for starving children... but its okay for starving children to be punished for the crimes of the rich?

It's bad for anyone to be forced, by the government, to do anything. And why do you keep saying the children are being punished? They are not. Sickness happens. It is a result of the choices humans have made. It's up to us to stop it, not up to God. He's already shown us/told us what we're supposed to do. We just have to choose to do it. If we did it, there wouldn't be sickness. Not because God keeps it away, but because we are staying away from those things that cause the sickness.

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 08:50 PM
So again - why do children have to suffer for the choices someone else made? That's pretty fucked up.

Should probably move this to the other thread. But to respond, ask the parents why the kids have to suffer.

Banned
06-06-2013, 10:21 PM
Should probably move this to the other thread. But to respond, ask the parents why the kids have to suffer.

This point is fallacious, as if we're talking a miserable hell on earth, like Darfur for example, the parents are probably equally powerless and suffering as the children. But even if we do accept the notion that childrens' suffering is the fault of the parents... again - why is the system set up so the innocent are punished (or if you prefer, suffer the consequences) of the misdeeds of the guilty?

sandsjames
06-06-2013, 10:55 PM
This point is fallacious, as if we're talking a miserable hell on earth, like Darfur for example, the parents are probably equally powerless and suffering as the children. But even if we do accept the notion that childrens' suffering is the fault of the parents... again - why is the system set up so the innocent are punished (or if you prefer, suffer the consequences) of the misdeeds of the guilty?

There is no "system". The condition of people on Earth has nothing to do with any system. It has to do with what we do. This isn't a religion thing. Religion plays no part. A higher power plays no part. Kids suffer because their parents are idiots...or they suffer because those of us who have the means to help choose not to, for whatever reason...or they suffer because they live (speaking of Darfur) in an area where disease runs rampant. Nobody (or thing) is giving them the disease. It's not a punishment. It a result. Cause and effect. Why do you get hung over? Because you drink too much the night before. Why do babies starve? Because they don't have enough food. It's simple. Why disease? Maybe bathing in shit? Just a guess. But these things are "cast upon us". They are a result of our actions.

jody
06-06-2013, 11:07 PM
Thanks for your opinion.

RobotChicken
06-07-2013, 12:19 AM
'Darwin's Theory' comes to mind...

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-07-2013, 03:25 PM
Until very recently, the GOP actually denied that he said this. It was something of an urban legend, up until a few months ago when Jimmy Carter's grandson released the tape of Atwater saying this.

That the GOP was in denial of this... really says a lot.maybe it was something they didnt know about,


Contrary to popular belief, those who are getting the fish handed to them are getting low quality and quantity. Try spending in a neighborhood full of welfare recipients if you don't believe me.That might be because they are also selling the fish for drugs.


You mean things that the GOP has been trying to do away with for decades?So? They are still there. Maybe the GOP sees that few people take that stuff, or take over advantage of that stuff and we as a nation cant afford to keep providing it.


Since when did these things become "luxuries"? The only thing you mentioned that could arguably be considered a "luxury" is a cell phone, but in a day and age where one must be reachable 24/7 - where one missed phone call could mean one missed job offer - it's safe to say that cell phones are now a necessity. The same way computers and the internet have become, when it became the only way to apply for jobs. So you dont consider any place to stay for free as a luxury if you dont have to work for it? Same with food, especially when you can buy McDs with government money? There are still libraries and pay phones. Not to mention landlines and answering machienes. Plus, free cell phones dont need to be smart phones.


Not quite. There's a famous quote by Harriet Tubman. I don't know it verbatim, but it goes something like "In my life, I have freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more, if only they knew that they were slaves."

You get where I'm going with this? When there's no question as to what your place in society is, you know that something needs to be done about the situation. You won't do anything if you don't know.

If I had to guess, if there actually were slaves who didn't know that there were slaves (as Harriet Tubman's quote suggests), then were slave masters who did exactly to those slaves what the GOP does to today's middle and lower class whites.Ok, so like now how you dont see that you are a slave when you have your income, or part of your income, taken by force from you to fund the governments ideas and luxuries? Kind of sad when you think about it, you are making the arguement to be a libertarian here.


They may have worked for what they had, but they were also afforded opportunities that a very select few will ever see.So the military is only open for a select few? The chance to work harder than everyone else is, because unlike popular AF belief, there can be only a few "5's" (best of the best). But that shouldnt stop anyone from trying to be better and to better them selves unless they are happy where they are.


Right... I guess that's why all of those corporate executives and other movers & shakers were backing Ron Paul over Mitt Romney. Oh, wait...
Like I said, conservatives. Ron Paul wont let people become big just because they are who they are, they would actually have to fight and be inovative to attract new customers, not get the government to regulate the businesses so that only the strong can survive.


What, because they own a nail shop? You can't be serious.Wow, kind of racist statement there. That Asians only open nail shops. Cant discuss this with someone so close minded.


I think that the best explanation was the 40 acres and a mule that never happened during Reconstruction. You know, giving the newly freed slaves an asset that could be passed down. Something that non-slaves at the time generally had.150 years ago.... And still, that is all based off a authoritarian government. You look at both Obama and Romney, they are actually both pretty authoritarian. Lincoln deffinately was, since he started a war with people that didnt do exactly as he said.


That's because this was before Jim Crow was over. When second and subsequent generation Irishmen lost their accents, no one could tell them from a WASP. THAT'S why.Ah, the red hair didnt give them away. And no one in southie has that accent either.


People who don't have that same history with whites, as African Americans do.African blacks are distinguishable from american blacks by white people? Really? Or are you saying that blacks of Africa can make in the US because they chose to work hard and have no grudge with black americans have a grudge and refuse to work?


Do you know the history behind the concept of being "nigger rich," or the more euphemistic term, "hood rich?" (By the way, I personally don't care which term you choose to use)

Housing discrimination. Once upon a time, it didn't matter how many money you had. You could have enough money to buy a particular house five times over, but if you weren't white, you weren't wanted in that neighborhood, and that house wasn't going to be sold to you most case(however, there were cases of houses in white neighborhoods being sold to blacks for several times the value).

Why is this significant? Because most blacks who ran into money - whether someone who had a relative die and are getting the insurance money, or even working hard and "making it" - could not leave "the hood," even if they wanted to. Even though they had money.

So what did they do with all of the money that they had? The only thing that they could: spend it. So now, they had expensive jewelry, Cadillacs, and Lincolns. Because they couldn't do anything else with the money.

And everyone in the neighborhood watching the guy who ran into the money and was buying all these nice things? They all wanted to be just like him.

So now, over the decades, it became culture.Wow, the defense of such immaturaty is astonishing. I guess they couldnt move to differnt place that didnt act like that. Or build their own homes up that they did have, nah, lets get flashy things.


Bullshit. Look at the history of how Jews were treated in Europe, of the fact that EVERY country in Far East Asia that exists today has a history of royalty and nobility behind it.But the ones in America dont follow that same culture. They strive to be better.

JD2780
06-07-2013, 09:10 PM
So you're saying Magic Sky Man has no power over his own creation? That would be the only explanation for there being no system.

And if Magic Sky Man has the power to feed starving children and end disease - but chooses not to - then he is just as guilty as we are.

He gave us free will.

However, those damn racist bigot republics. Theyre responsible for world hunger, disease, every war, and Justin Bieber.

RobotChicken
06-07-2013, 09:14 PM
'J B' MUST be FUN to work with or live within 2 blocks of his church! (Jonestown comes to mind)

Banned
06-07-2013, 09:19 PM
There is no "system". The condition of people on Earth has nothing to do with any system. It has to do with what we do. This isn't a religion thing. Religion plays no part. A higher power plays no part. Kids suffer because their parents are idiots...or they suffer because those of us who have the means to help choose not to, for whatever reason...or they suffer because they live (speaking of Darfur) in an area where disease runs rampant. Nobody (or thing) is giving them the disease. It's not a punishment. It a result. Cause and effect. Why do you get hung over? Because you drink too much the night before. Why do babies starve? Because they don't have enough food. It's simple. Why disease? Maybe bathing in shit? Just a guess. But these things are "cast upon us". They are a result of our actions.

So you're saying Magic Sky Man has no power over his own creation? That would be the only explanation for there being no system.

And if Magic Sky Man has the power to feed starving children and end disease - but chooses not to - then he is just as guilty as we are.

JD2780
06-07-2013, 09:21 PM
So you're saying Magic Sky Man has no power over his own creation? That would be the only explanation for there being no system.

And if Magic Sky Man has the power to feed starving children and end disease - but chooses not to - then he is just as guilty as we are.

He gave us free will.

However, those damn racist bigot republicans. Theyre responsible for world hunger, disease, every war, and Justin Bieber.

Banned
06-07-2013, 09:21 PM
He gave us free will.

Really? Throughout history many - perhaps the vast majority - of people have no opportunity to ever exercise free will. They're born in poverty and disease, enslaved by men with more money and weapons... and are either murdered, or eventually succumb to starvation or illness. Free will doesn't mean a damn thing.

And - to use your logic - doesn't Magic Sky Man himself have free will? Why does he deliberately choose to let innocent and powerless people suffer and die, and allow evil people to prosper by exploiting their neighbors?

Rusty Jones
06-07-2013, 10:01 PM
There is no "system". The condition of people on Earth has nothing to do with any system. It has to do with what we do. This isn't a religion thing. Religion plays no part. A higher power plays no part. Kids suffer because their parents are idiots...or they suffer because those of us who have the means to help choose not to, for whatever reason...or they suffer because they live (speaking of Darfur) in an area where disease runs rampant. Nobody (or thing) is giving them the disease. It's not a punishment. It a result. Cause and effect. Why do you get hung over? Because you drink too much the night before. Why do babies starve? Because they don't have enough food. It's simple. Why disease? Maybe bathing in shit? Just a guess. But these things are "cast upon us". They are a result of our actions.

"...If he is neither willing or able [to destroy evil], then why call him God?"
~Epicurus

sandsjames
06-07-2013, 11:59 PM
"...If he is neither willing or able [to destroy evil], then why call him God?"
~Epicurus

Yes, I've seen you quote this more than once. Here's the best answer I can give you. You'll have to ask Him when you get the chance.

Banned
06-08-2013, 12:04 AM
Yes, I've seen you quote this more than once. Here's the best answer I can give you. You'll have to ask Him when you get the chance.

Well now isn't that some inspirational leadership right there! Just the kind of guy we should blindly worship.

sandsjames
06-08-2013, 12:07 AM
Well now isn't that some inspirational leadership right there! Just the kind of guy we should blindly worship.

Don't you have some spoken verse to listen to at some little coffee shop?

Banned
06-08-2013, 12:40 AM
Don't you have some spoken verse to listen to at some little coffee shop?

I got my Bible right HERE!

JD2780
06-08-2013, 11:01 AM
You always have free will. Sometimes the bad folks use it to inflict misery on others. Others have it to free the enslaved from the misery.

JD2780
06-08-2013, 11:09 AM
Yes, I've seen you quote this more than once. Here's the best answer I can give you. You'll have to ask Him when you get the chance.

Because he gave us free will and expected good people to stop the bad.

sandsjames
06-08-2013, 12:33 PM
I got my Bible right HERE!

You mad, bro?

RobotChicken
06-08-2013, 08:27 PM
Post #57 on should be in the 'Religion section'; as usual a 'normal thread' turns into 'Joe's pulpit' after careful baiting and steering on his behalf. 'RC'. (thank you 'AA')

Absinthe Anecdote
06-08-2013, 08:41 PM
Post #57 on should be in the 'Religion section'; as usual a 'normal tread' turns into 'Joe's pulpit' after careful baiting and steering on his behalf. 'RC'.

Thread!

I don’t want to be a spelling cop but you get it wrong every single time.

For Pete’s sake please learn how to spell thread.

PS

I’ll stop playing spelling cop if you stop playing thread cop.

Deal?

RobotChicken
06-08-2013, 08:44 PM
Thanks 'AA'; I'll cluck better for you next time!

wildman
06-09-2013, 02:48 AM
Upon reading the posts in this thread and the ones in other threads one starts to get a pattern of the same rhetoric from the same dull, boring, self centered, opinionated, over inflated ego, mistakenly thought to be educated ass clown atheists. There does however appear to be a few individuals with some common sense, but they are unceasingly attacked and ridiculed by these nimrods.

Always,
Wildman

RobotChicken
06-09-2013, 03:23 AM
Upon reading the posts in this thread and the ones in other threads one starts to get a pattern of the same rhetoric from the same dull, boring, self centered, opinionated, over inflated ego, mistakenly thought to be educated ass clown atheists. There does however appear to be a few individuals with some common sense, but they are unceasingly attacked and ridiculed by these nimrods.

Always,
Wildman
After your 130 posts; figure you would catch on.....

Banned
06-10-2013, 05:34 AM
You mad, bro?

HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MAGIC SKY MAN!

RobotChicken
06-10-2013, 05:57 AM
That about sums it 'up'!!

JD2780
06-10-2013, 12:18 PM
Upon reading the posts in this thread and the ones in other threads one starts to get a pattern of the same rhetoric from the same dull, boring, self centered, opinionated, over inflated ego, mistakenly thought to be educated ass clown atheists. There does however appear to be a few individuals with some common sense, but they are unceasingly attacked and ridiculed by these nimrods.

Always,
Wildman

You're no different than the Christian bashing atheist. You can't stand atheists. You can't let it go can you? By the way, do you actually know what nimrod means? If not I can enlighten you. It means skillful hunter. Better choose your insults ore wisely. Also, you might want to work on what it means to be a decent Christian.