PDA

View Full Version : Personal Attacks - Moderator Logic



PickYourBattles
05-26-2013, 09:57 AM
In the past, my observation was that moderators were largely absent, and only sprung into action when somebody complained about a post. I found that even posts that had no attack whatsoever, were used to ban me (thanks SandsJames). But it's not like this forum is making any bank, so I figured it was just lazy mods. So to test that theory, I reported attacking posts by SJ and TMAC, and wouldn't you know it - they were not banned and I got no response from the mods.

But then there was this "re-org" of the board recently. Made me wonder if perhaps the moderation on the site was being done more responsibly.

But then I got a warning about "attacking" JD - no reference to what post. I can hazzard a guess as to which post wasn't soft and delicate enough for military fighting men (and former service men) on a message board full of words.

Dear PickYourBattles,

You have received an infraction at MilitaryTimes.com Forums.

Reason: Insulted Other Member(s)
-------
Please discontinue your targeted personal attacks against JD2780.
-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

All the best,
MilitaryTimes.com Forums

But then today I get another warning about attacking JD, and I know that one is bunk. Again, no pointer to what post was offending or why, and it reminds me of the SandsJames complaint that was from left field.

Dear PickYourBattles,

You have received an infraction at MilitaryTimes.com Forums.

Reason: Insulted Other Member(s)
-------
D not continue harassing JD. This is your final warning.
-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

All the best,
MilitaryTimes.com Forums

Neg rep might be gone to keep the childish from playing games, but apparently reporting posts is alive and well.

PickYourBattles
05-26-2013, 10:05 AM
So I think mods need to make their warnings and bannings public, the offending post, the reason why it was offending. You know, transparency.

Otherwise, I will continue to think this board is run by unprincipled sissies who punish those who offend those who complain like a false sexual harassment complainer. Yeah, I said it. Make it transparent, or stop moderating at all and let the truth take its course.

And of course I have no issue being booted from this worthless forum.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
05-26-2013, 11:14 AM
And of course I have no issue being booted from this worthless forum.

Come on now, you don't mean this!

tiredretiredE7
05-26-2013, 12:35 PM
In the past, my observation was that moderators were largely absent, and only sprung into action when somebody complained about a post. I found that even posts that had no attack whatsoever, were used to ban me (thanks SandsJames). But it's not like this forum is making any bank, so I figured it was just lazy mods. So to test that theory, I reported attacking posts by SJ and TMAC, and wouldn't you know it - they were not banned and I got no response from the mods.

But then there was this "re-org" of the board recently. Made me wonder if perhaps the moderation on the site was being done more responsibly.

But then I got a warning about "attacking" JD - no reference to what post. I can hazzard a guess as to which post wasn't soft and delicate enough for military fighting men (and former service men) on a message board full of words.

Dear PickYourBattles,

You have received an infraction at MilitaryTimes.com Forums.

Reason: Insulted Other Member(s)
-------
Please discontinue your targeted personal attacks against JD2780.
-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

All the best,
MilitaryTimes.com Forums

But then today I get another warning about attacking JD, and I know that one is bunk. Again, no pointer to what post was offending or why, and it reminds me of the SandsJames complaint that was from left field.

Dear PickYourBattles,

You have received an infraction at MilitaryTimes.com Forums.

Reason: Insulted Other Member(s)
-------
D not continue harassing JD. This is your final warning.
-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

All the best,
MilitaryTimes.com Forums

Neg rep might be gone to keep the childish from playing games, but apparently reporting posts is alive and well.

PYB,

You did make a comment about JD's PTSD and I do not believe making fun of someone's disabilities will be tolerated in these forums. I did not report the post but I believe most people would.

efmbman
05-26-2013, 01:11 PM
I normally do not agree with PYB, but in this case I will. I have moderated three forums over the years and I found that consistency in enforcing the rules is always the right play. Just like in real life - imagine THAT!

I have reported a member several times, and was never acknowledged for doing so nor was there any action taken against that member. And this was not for a "he hurt my feelings" incident. This was for a rule that is expressly mentioned in the dialog box used to report a post! When you are reporting a post, this rule is RIGHT THERE! Lesson learned - rules apply to some, not to all. Just like in real life - imagine THAT!

I used to be much more active here because I enjoyed the debate and I saw this as an opportunity to learn something from other service members - especially those from other services. My activity has dropped off for the reasons mentioned already. Not that I am missed or anything... that's just my 2 cents.

BOSS302
05-26-2013, 01:41 PM
-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s)


Haha, a point deduction system? Reminds me of 8th grade and "Citizenship Points". If you were "bad", you had points deducted from a starting total of 100. If you dipped below 80 points, you had to attend a detention on Friday afternoon while everyone else got to take a half-hour period at the end of day and attend a "Citizenship Party", where the teachers played music and sold sodas/candy.

You could re-acquire "Citizenship Points" during the week if you lost any by doing things such as bringing in aluminum cans for recycling, writing a one page essay on why you were "bad" and what you would do to stop being "bad", or attending morning study hall.

TJMAC77SP
05-26-2013, 02:10 PM
Perhaps you could go public with what posts you consider attacking and actually BE transparent.

Perhaps someone called you a fascist. Perhaps they intimated that you are a rapist or child molester. Perhaps they continually make lame and unoriginal comments about you killing dogs in thread after thread.

You could always take your ball and go home.

BTW. What was the radio station the clip was broadcast on?

Banned
05-26-2013, 03:38 PM
I normally do not agree with PYB, but in this case I will. I have moderated three forums over the years and I found that consistency in enforcing the rules is always the right play. Just like in real life - imagine THAT!

I have reported a member several times, and was never acknowledged for doing so nor was there any action taken against that member. And this was not for a "he hurt my feelings" incident. This was for a rule that is expressly mentioned in the dialog box used to report a post! When you are reporting a post, this rule is RIGHT THERE! Lesson learned - rules apply to some, not to all. Just like in real life - imagine THAT!

I used to be much more active here because I enjoyed the debate and I saw this as an opportunity to learn something from other service members - especially those from other services. My activity has dropped off for the reasons mentioned already. Not that I am missed or anything... that's just my 2 cents.

Same here. There is a member who openly admits to maintaining a second account so he can continue rambling about how much the Air Force sucks even when he's banned... which is expressly against the terms of service.

Better still - Rusty Jones himself actually had his alt account banned. Yet this other member OPENLY, OPENLY admits to having two accounts, I report him, yet nothing happens.

Maybe he has a profile. A "fight or flight" profile.

Absinthe Anecdote
05-26-2013, 05:04 PM
So I think mods need to make their warnings and bannings public, the offending post, the reason why it was offending. You know, transparency.

Otherwise, I will continue to think this board is run by unprincipled sissies who punish those who offend those who complain like a false sexual harassment complainer. Yeah, I said it. Make it transparent, or stop moderating at all and let the truth take its course.

And of course I have no issue being booted from this worthless forum.

Yep!

I’d say that it is pretty clear that you are being picked on.

You could deal with this using conventional means but that could take years and cost thousands of user profiles.

I think you should outfit each of your posts with video cameras and armor plates.

The second a person starts to read one of your posts the video cameras will be there to capture every sardonic eye roll and malicious chortle.
When they start typing a response, again, the cameras will be there to record every single hostile clickety clack and all those subtly malevolent tapety taps.

You can post these videos in a Youtube channel and perhaps garner support from a vast network of world-wide supporters.

All that will be left for you to do is vanquish your online foes with an uppercase admonishment to be courageous.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
05-26-2013, 05:22 PM
You all deserve a response, but I am afraid I cannot be fully "transparent." Here's why:



I like how you correctly placed the period at the end of your sentence inside the quotes. You must have attended private schools, I'm guessing.

VFFTSGT
05-26-2013, 07:26 PM
You all deserve a response, but I am afraid I cannot be fully "transparent." Here's why:

Moderating a forum is inherently an unfair practice, as it is rooted in subjectivity.
Moderating is meant to maintain only the status quo of "fairness" for the largest number of people. It is impossible to be fair to each party in a given incident. One party is censored or punished, the other is not, and the punished party is ultimately, treated "unfairly" in their mind - as most people always feel they are within their rights, purview, or the rules of the forums to make a given statement. Adding to that, these incidents, along with the resulting punishment or seeming lack thereof, are almost always witnessed by others who will feel this action was either right or wrong.

I cannot and will not be fully transparent because that would only incite more public discussion, more disagreement, and ultimately detract from what these boards are about and why you all enjoy them. When the forums are taken over by dissent around the way they are moderated or not moderated, the purpose of the forum is lost and people like efmbman simply participate less and less.

I can, however, privately respond to your request for clarification of the infraction.

And yes, I do not like the infraction system either. I too am reminded of receiving demerits in middle school. However, infractions are the only systematic and, in our view - fair, way to take action for all incidents and members, when those complaints do not warrant immediate bans.

Please understand that not all complaints will warrant punitive action. On the other hand, not all punishments and consequences are public - this is one such example.

Please know that we take your concerns seriously. And we will take action where we deem necessary. Please continue to report posts and individuals who are violating our policies.

I think it is reasonable for an individual to be made aware of what specific post got them in trouble. Including the link to the specific post in your message to the offending party would not be that complicated.

Some people may not realize they are making an ad hominem argument (personal attack) at the moment they type/post.

Like you mentioned before, these forums have been running wild for sometime. Now, out of the blue, there is an authority around. What people thought was allowed because it has been for some time is no longer allowed. It will take time to rein in the personal attacks and other inappropriate posts. Pointing to the offending post in your message to the offending party will help people understand what they are doing wrong.

I do think you engaging in the forum like you have been lately is good thing.

STL7997
05-26-2013, 07:40 PM
While we're here. This forum could benefit a lot from a few of these well established mods.

User Tagging:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=242733

Thanks/Likes (with potential to make dislikes)
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=243510

Follow User:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=293491

User Name Change:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=236980

Report Posts:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=285206&highlight=Advanced+Report+System

Just to name a few....

wildman
05-26-2013, 08:03 PM
I am rather new to this forum, but I do belong to others and have quit some along the way. I over the years have seen some forums over taken by individuals who did not comply with the TOS an the Admins an moderators could not get a handle on the situation, those sites have almost disappeared an the membership is down to a hand full. I also will tell you I have also been banned from a few sites. The best sites in my opinion are the ones that make their TOS crystal clear an enforce it. Also the Admins handle the problems via PM's an the general membership is not made aware of what took place.

Always
Wildman

Drackore
05-26-2013, 08:34 PM
Just remember, there is no freedom of speech here. They can censor and ban you at will for any reason whatsoever. That said - making fun of someone with PTSD is not only sick, especially on this forum, but worthy of a punch to the face, repeatedly, in real life. Karma, please make your presence known.

PickYourBattles
05-26-2013, 08:41 PM
I put up with as much shit from others on the site as I dish out. There is only one of me. There are several in your crowd. I'm fine with that. I'm a big boy and can handle words and "attacks" online. But there are several sissies who spend so much time whining to the mods anytime they are challenged, or an insult is returned, and it is my experience that the board isn't moderated fairly.

If somebody is going to be given an infraction, create a thread and just list 1) who was given an infraction, 2) what rule was broken, and 3) what post broke the rule. That's not difficult, and then people can see how the board is moderated and what the rules are and how they're enforced. That's fair.

The other good option, if that's too difficult, is to let military fighting men figure out how to exist in the ever so dangerous sticks and stones online world.

wildman
05-26-2013, 08:42 PM
I use to think that the 2nd amendment applied to all forums, found out rather quick that is not necessarily true. When you agree to the TOS of a forum you are bound by that agreement an the rules an regs of that forum are final. Sort of like when one joined the service you agreed to obey the orders of those appointed over you, and freedom of speech would not save your sorry butt if you did not comply.

Always
Wildman

PickYourBattles
05-26-2013, 08:44 PM
I swear sometimes I confuse this board for Chucky Cheese, with all the coddling that goes on here.

PickYourBattles
05-26-2013, 08:46 PM
I use to think that the 2nd amendment applied to all forums, found out rather quick that is not necessarily true. When you agree to the TOS of a forum you are bound by that agreement an the rules an regs of that forum are final. Sort of like when one joined the service you agreed to obey the orders of those appointed over you, and freedom of speech would not save your sorry butt if you did not comply.

Always
Wildman

I couldn't agree more. But kind of like the service, it's funny how certain groups don't have those same rules applied to them and the fairness is questioned. So make the process transparent, or let people figure it out without crying to the hall monitor because they have a verbal skinned knee and snot running down their faces.

PickYourBattles
05-26-2013, 08:49 PM
If the price of posting on this board is reporting every post from TJMAC where he calls me a "pissant" just to see (or not) whether a moderator agrees that is an "ATTACK!" that crosses the line, then I'll take my posting elsewhere. I don't want to have to do that, because neg rep silliness has morphed into reporting posts silliness.

TJMAC wants to tell me to grow up, but I think that's a strange command on a forum that appears to be run like a playground.

wildman
05-26-2013, 08:57 PM
I don't know what rank you hold or held in the service, but I knew that if my supervisor made a decision that was final an there was to be no arguments about it. Same sort of thing here I think, and yes it may not always be fair. We could always to to the I.G. if we thought we had a case, and I think we could appeal to an Admin on this forum also. I disagree about putting this out for all to see however. To me it becomes a personal matter and no one else business. It's between me an the powers to be.

Always
Wildman

PickYourBattles
05-26-2013, 09:17 PM
I don't know what rank you hold or held in the service, but I knew that if my supervisor made a decision that was final an there was to be no arguments about it. Same sort of thing here I think, and yes it may not always be fair. We could always to to the I.G. if we thought we had a case, and I think we could appeal to an Admin on this forum also. I disagree about putting this out for all to see however. To me it becomes a personal matter and no one else business. It's between me an the powers to be.

Always
Wildman

My rank isn't important on an online messageboard. And this board isn't the military. I think that should be obvious. It's a board about discussing issues relevant to the military. I'm not sure why you disagree about people on an online messageboard discussing that online messageboard, but your comments and your low post count make me wonder if perhaps you're not a moderator who simply doesn't want how they moderate to be a topic of discussion? Maybe I'm off.

OtisRNeedleman
05-26-2013, 09:30 PM
A humble suggestion. If you really don't like what someone posts, just put the person on your "ignore" list. Arguing on the Internet means little and solves nothing. I'm on some other boards and on one board there's a person I don't like. Instead of getting into a pissing contest I just rise above it and ignore him. Have one person on my ignore list here. I don't ignore many people; their behavior has to be pretty irritating.

PickYourBattles
05-26-2013, 09:43 PM
Funny that those who complain the most about me had me on their ignore lists. But then they didn't anymore. They wanted to tell everybody they were ignoring me, but they didn't really want to ignore me. But they did want to neg rep and report my posts, while ruining my threads with cereal discussions and such. And now, "Mom! Mom!" is their new tactic against "the pissant."

If after these community inputs, the moderator(s) keep things status quo instead of either 1) making the reported posts transparent so all can see both the rules and the infractions (and can make a judgment about how fairly the board is moderated), or 2) letting grown men figure it out themselves in their exchange of words, then I'll cease activity here. This board has been laborious with childish antics involving neg rep, or childish antics over reporting posts when it should be a place to have discussions, and where those who insult reap what they sow without the principal being called.

Banned
05-26-2013, 09:53 PM
Same here. There is a member who openly admits to maintaining a second account so he can continue rambling about how much the Air Force sucks even when he's banned... which is expressly against the terms of service.

Better still - Rusty Jones himself actually had his alt account banned. Yet this other member OPENLY, OPENLY admits to having two accounts, I report him, yet nothing happens.

Maybe he has a profile. A "fight or flight" profile.

I received a PM about this - from the forum admin demanding to know if Rusty has any active alt accounts.

And of course completely ignored my point about the other member. And ignored my response PM naming this other member.

There is no doubt in my mind that this increase in moderation is mostly based on personal bias, not actual facts or standardized, equally enforced rules.

PickYourBattles
05-26-2013, 10:19 PM
I received a PM about this - from the forum admin demanding to know if Rusty has any active alt accounts.

And of course completely ignored my point about the other member. And ignored my response PM naming this other member.

There is no doubt in my mind that this increase in moderation is mostly based on personal bias, not actual facts or standardized, equally enforced rules.

The forum has gotten somewhat better given getting rid of neg rep. A transparent system to show what posts are reported by who, and action taken and why, would help this board out much more. Or just a policy of "bring a thick skin and good luck" like we deal with in the real world everyday, where only the most serious infractions require moderator action (private info being released, death threats, hate speech, etc), instead of the moderators wasting their time referring online sissy slap fights, or participating in them from behind the scenes.

Absinthe Anecdote
05-26-2013, 10:40 PM
I do not think there is an ignore function anymore. I had Robot Chicken and on my ignore list for the longest time and I started seeing their posts again.

Speaking of alt accounts and tattle tells, isn’t Tak the one who does this constantly?

RobotChicken
05-26-2013, 10:45 PM
:clock :tape:ohwell:typing:cry:boom:hurt :closed_2 (Hey 'AA', Like-wise!!) And your still on the :lol "A$$CLOWN OF THE QUARTER LIST! fur your 'EVAL'..:closed_2

BURAWSKI
05-26-2013, 11:55 PM
Being a moderator on these forums is a thankless job. There will always be some that are unsatisfied. But hey, you just can't please everybody.

imported_DannyJ
05-26-2013, 11:56 PM
I swear sometimes I confuse this board for Chucky Cheese, with all the coddling that goes on here.

Funny...I was thinking you whine an awful lot for a Major.

RobotChicken
05-26-2013, 11:59 PM
Being a moderator on these forums is a thankless job. There will always be some that are unsatisfied. But hey, you just can't please everybody.
:usa2 :ohwell:thumb:thumb :usa2

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 12:03 AM
True, you can't make everybody happy. Still, I think several of us have pointed out ways that moderation could be done better, or more fairly and transparently, with very little effort required. Nothing is ever perfect, but that's not a good argument for not taking easy steps to make something better.

Rusty Jones
05-27-2013, 12:17 AM
I received a PM about this - from the forum admin demanding to know if Rusty has any active alt accounts.

And of course completely ignored my point about the other member. And ignored my response PM naming this other member.

There is no doubt in my mind that this increase in moderation is mostly based on personal bias, not actual facts or standardized, equally enforced rules.

Funny that they asked you, because I haven't received any messages from the mod asking me directly. Why don't we make a deal with the mod? Delete the other guy's alt account, and I'll disclose mine if any.

RobotChicken
05-27-2013, 12:23 AM
:tsk:tsk:tsk Gettin' a little PARANOID are we??? :clock:suspicious:lol:lol:lol:rain

wildman
05-27-2013, 01:51 AM
Let me say again I'm new to this forum an no I am not a moderator nor an admin, I'm just a member. Now if some of you want to display your dirty laundry (so to speak in public) that's your business, for me that's a no no. As I said I have been banned from some forums an the PM's exchanged in those cases I sure as hell do not want made public for anyone an all to see. If one has a problem with a forum they should first contact the owner of that forum and if then not satisfied make the decision if they want to remain a member or not. Moderators IMO are there to assist the admins in the running of the forum but the final decisions should rest with the admins an preferably only the owner of the forum albeit in some cases this is not always possible. There is my two cents worth, of course they are only suggestions and the owner or admins will make the final call.

Always
Wildman

Robert F. Dorr
05-27-2013, 02:07 AM
You all deserve a response, but I am afraid I cannot be fully "transparent." Here's why:

Moderating a forum is inherently an unfair practice, as it is rooted in subjectivity.
Moderating is meant to maintain only the status quo of "fairness" for the largest number of people. It is impossible to be fair to each party in a given incident. One party is censored or punished, the other is not, and the punished party is ultimately, treated "unfairly" in their mind - as most people always feel they are within their rights, purview, or the rules of the forums to make a given statement. Adding to that, these incidents, along with the resulting punishment or seeming lack thereof, are almost always witnessed by others who will feel this action was either right or wrong.

I cannot and will not be fully transparent because that would only incite more public discussion, more disagreement, and ultimately detract from what these boards are about and why you all enjoy them. When the forums are taken over by dissent around the way they are moderated or not moderated, the purpose of the forum is lost and people like efmbman simply participate less and less.

I can, however, privately respond to your request for clarification of the infraction.

And yes, I do not like the infraction system either. I too am reminded of receiving demerits in middle school. However, infractions are the only systematic and, in our view - fair, way to take action for all incidents and members, when those complaints do not warrant immediate bans.

Please understand that not all complaints will warrant punitive action. On the other hand, not all punishments and consequences are public - this is one such example.

Please know that we take your concerns seriously. And we will take action where we deem necessary. Please continue to report posts and individuals who are violating our policies.

Why don't you have a name? In the distant past, the moderator here did have a name. Why should you post anonymously?

RobotChicken
05-27-2013, 02:11 AM
:clock 'Forum Admin' is a 'NAME', like Admiral, General, Airman GS 11, etc...:doh

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 02:17 AM
I prefer a community forum to be more community than that. I certainly wouldn't classify somebody getting points taken away from them because somebody complained about being personally "attacked" to be dirty laundry, but perhaps I just live in a more exciting world. But like you said, those who own the site will make the call. If they don't want to have transparency despite multiple people so far claiming things are not done fairly, that is their call. And people can choose to contribute here or not, where some of the chosen can call folks pissants and insult as they wish, while others who return insults are banned.

sandsjames
05-27-2013, 02:50 AM
Who's this person everyone is talking about having an alt account? I'm dead against that. You'll notice that from my sig line. Stop the silliness!

RobotChicken
05-27-2013, 02:52 AM
:car Hey I 'uparmoured' my VW Jetta, and got a 'Corsair' to cover me..so bring it on!!! :plane

TJMAC77SP
05-27-2013, 04:00 AM
If the price of posting on this board is reporting every post from TJMAC where he calls me a "pissant" just to see (or not) whether a moderator agrees that is an "ATTACK!" that crosses the line, then I'll take my posting elsewhere. I don't want to have to do that, because neg rep silliness has morphed into reporting posts silliness.

TJMAC wants to tell me to grow up, but I think that's a strange command on a forum that appears to be run like a playground.

Seems you have told us you were leaving before.

TJMAC77SP
05-27-2013, 04:03 AM
I've asked about the two "infractions" I've recently received, as to which posts specifically garnered those. I did get this message from FA:

"You have repeatedly attacked JD about his PTSD and the dog incident. Attacks include direct comments and implications/insinuations of a passive-aggressive nature.
This is not a single isolated incident, but multiple cases of continual harassment.
Additionally, JD is not the only person to see or report your attacks. Two individuals in your thread also note that they witnessed the attacks."

I disagree completely that I have "attacked JD about his PTSD and the dog incident," but of course I'll need specific posts to examine those claims. Since it's apparently a matter of "reported posts" it should be easy to see which posts I'm being accused over.

If not believing a person has PTSD equates to "attacking them," then that should be put into the forum rules so all will know you cannot challenge a person's claim to have PTSD online.

And if making fun of a guy who said he shot a dog is off limits, well then I'm really at a loss.

Making fun of a person's car, calling them a pissant, these things are fine but if this place is going to be micro-managed like a daycare, "Now PYB, you hurt Tommy's feelings..." then I think we definitely need to have a thread that makes it clear who will be given "infractions" and possibly banned, and for what, so that people can understand what the ground rules are. Right now the grounds rules appear to be that if you whine to the moderators about your feelings being hurt, and they like you, they will hand out infractions. But if they don't like you, then your whining will go unnoticed.

I understand that if that is the case, then transparency will not be desired.

Is this how your tenure at BaseOps ended?

TJMAC77SP
05-27-2013, 04:04 AM
I bet you can't back that up with a link...

But then again, that's what this is all about isn't it?

Now why YOU would want ME to leave this forum, I have no idea why that is. I can't think of anything.

Wait, are you saying you have not claimed to be 'taking a break" from the MTF ?!?!

I wasn't exactly NOTHING from you.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 04:07 AM
I've asked about the two "infractions" I've recently received, as to which posts specifically garnered those. I did get this message from FA:

"You have repeatedly attacked JD about his PTSD and the dog incident. Attacks include direct comments and implications/insinuations of a passive-aggressive nature.
This is not a single isolated incident, but multiple cases of continual harassment.
Additionally, JD is not the only person to see or report your attacks. Two individuals in your thread also note that they witnessed the attacks."

I disagree completely that I have "attacked JD about his PTSD and the dog incident," but of course I'll need specific posts to examine those claims. Since it's apparently a matter of "reported posts" it should be easy to see which posts I'm being accused over.

If not believing a person has PTSD equates to "attacking them," then that should be put into the forum rules so all will know you cannot challenge a person's claim to have PTSD online.

And if making fun of a guy who said he shot a dog is off limits, well then I'm really at a loss.

Making fun of a person's car, calling them a pissant, these things are fine but if this place is going to be micro-managed like a daycare, "Now PYB, you hurt Tommy's feelings..." then I think we definitely need to have a thread that makes it clear who will be given "infractions" and possibly banned, and for what, so that people can understand what the ground rules are. Right now the grounds rules appear to be that if you whine to the moderators about your feelings being hurt, and they like you, they will hand out infractions. But if they don't like you, then your whining will go unnoticed.

I understand that if that is the case, then transparency will not be desired.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 04:10 AM
Seems you have told us you were leaving before.

I bet you can't back that up with a link...

But then again, that's what this is all about isn't it?

Now why YOU would want ME to leave this forum, I have no idea why that is. I can't think of anything.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 04:11 AM
BTW, I love the word "attacks" being thrown around. Perhaps the AFT forum could come up with a "PYB Week" to play along with "Shark Week." Vicious attacks, so brutal, I just have to cover my eyes!

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 04:12 AM
Who was it that claimed I was a racist or supported slavery in their sig block for some time, something they pulled completely out of thin air with no justification and did purposefully? Did they get banned?

If the mod is going to run the site like this, shouldn't there be some transparency on who gets infractions and why? I realize you don't want discussion and debate about it, you don't want to be transparent about it, but could that be because you are actually not interested in enforcing the board's TOS fairly?

RobotChicken
05-27-2013, 04:12 AM
:car Better 'up armourer' your ride if your going to cruise this forum...:closed_2

RobotChicken
05-27-2013, 04:16 AM
:usa2 All is fair in love and WAR!!! :closed_2

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 04:22 AM
Wait, are you saying you have not claimed to be 'taking a break" from the MTF ?!?!

I wasn't exactly NOTHING from you.

Well if you "wasn't exactly nothing" from me, then cool.

BTW, got a link to that post where I said I was leaving? Or was it "taking a break?" Because those things seem to be different. You know, like going on leave might mean taking a break, and separating might mean actually leaving. Anyway, it's all words - and I have to give it to you, you're better with those than I am.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 05:45 AM
Jesus, this forum tires me.


Here is a randomly selected group of your incessant attacks against JD. There are more, but I think the point is made.

http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1592858-F-the-Police&p=627396#post627396
http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1592858-F-the-Police&p=623593#post623593
http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1592858-F-the-Police&p=624103#post624103
http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1592858-F-the-Police&p=603425#post603425
http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1595904-How-much-power-does-a-Chief-really-have&p=627159#post627159
http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1595117-Concealed-Carry-on-base&p=605838#post605838
http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1595117-Concealed-Carry-on-base&p=605333#post605333
http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1595117-Concealed-Carry-on-base&p=604980#post604980
http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1595117-Concealed-Carry-on-base&p=604972#post604972
http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1595215-We-May-Not-Get-Paid-At-The-End-Of-The-Month&p=605253#post605253
http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1595215-We-May-Not-Get-Paid-At-The-End-Of-The-Month&p=605251#post605251

So did you start moderating, and then begin an exhaustive historical study to come up with your current actions? Or were there specific examples in the NOW time frame that led to your actions? I would suppose if you were to go back and look at the entire posting history of everybody on this forum, you will be able to find plenty of examples of insults and "attacks" as you call them. I could easily point you to several similar from TJMAC and SandsJames and others, but of course I didn't report those posts because I understand that in the big bad world, some folks may not like me and that's just the way it is. And strangely enough, when I shut down my computer at night, I'm actually not harmed when TJMAC calls me a pissant or somebody else makes fun of my car. Somehow I'm able to survive from digital insults.

Anyway, if you'd like to show me the specific two posts that led to your two infractions against me, I'd like to see those. Or if you're just going to do a search when somebody whines to you, and then only present a list of undefined, undiscussed, links where I am to divine for myself apparently where I "attacked" somebody, then obviously I will be unable to learn from my supposedly "bad" behavior.

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 05:54 AM
While I'm sure PYB's response will be nothing but insults and how he is better than me. Look at your post history on this forum. Just review it. Its nothing but flat out attacks, your mamma jokes, I banged your wife jokes, you lack education jokes. You have made a e-career of being John Doe's brother Dill. You are in conflict with over half the active posters on this site. To say you are in the cross hairs of the admin would be the understatement of the year.

In addition as you yourself have stated many times. It's just a message board, it's not real life. Who cares? At the end of the day, you have a job, a family, food on the table and health. Correct? is what occurs on a message board on the internet so important that it rents space in your head and causes you to lose any of the above listed?

Does this site dictate your life? Unlike real life all you have to do is click that red X in the upper right corner and its gone.

There are mountains and there are mole hills. Your making this mole hill into a mountain.

* waits for personal attacks

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 05:56 AM
Ok, so here are the "offending" posts of mine apparently, from a "random" sampling that the ForumAdmin has given me to justify two "infractions" and which seem to mostly come from January of February time frame. Dog jokes. DOG JOKES. Really???


As usual you prove that you can't teach some dogs (oh shit, sorry) new tricks.

Nobody here hates cops. Some on here hate bad cops. Just like hating priests who molest little kids, does not mean a person hates priests. But for you, if you hate a bad cop then you hate all cops. You should be smarter than that, but then again the Air Force invited you to leave and they don't have genius standards or anything, so maybe that isn't the case. You "no" what I mean?


Poodles aren't really dogs? Learn something knew everyday. And from a source I trust when it comes to dogs.

BTW, good on you JD for your steadfast participation here. You're the better man. The Air Force says thanks but no thanks, to your JTAC service and you separate far before a full career, and yet here you are everyday. Is this because your doctor told you it was good for your "PTSD?"


Nobody is following you, relax. No need to be all tense and paranoid. Well, except for that dog behind you. Better shoot him before he bites through your armor plating!

I particularly like his one from January:


Here's a movie for you. I'm guessing you'd label this a Horror Movie so keep the lights on. I know how dogs scare you so much that you just have to shoot them.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YyWTqXSXL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I so miss your war stories but now that you're back, I'm sure I'll get to see them again, any time you can possibly squeeze some of that drama in (which would be anytime for you). "You can die in combat from that! I've seen it happen! Nobody died, but...."


Did you let them no that you can't spell simple words, because you're still suffering from the stress of dogs barking?


You mean like the stressful situation of a dog barking, such that you have to shoot it?

The Second Amendment doesn't have fuck all to say about proficiency or your opinion of somebody else's skill. You know what will make people want to practice and get trained properly? People fucking up with their weapons and injuring somebody else, then doing hard time or losing all they own due to their negligence. You fry people when they fuck up, not because you *think* they might.


Will a picture of one of JD's dogs work?

http://rlv.zcache.com/kitten_slayer_dog_shirt-p155375675747166072bflb1_400.jpg

It runs in the family.


Dude, I just don't kill dogs and brag about it on an internet forum. I mean, I guess perhaps I might, if I hadn't ever personally killed the enemy and that's all I had.

I won't compare myself to ground dudes (more risk than me). Especially not the dudes I worked for...top notch. But in my job I spent a great deal of time to protect those guys. Did a lot of work with them. Always ready to hang it out. And all that time.....means I can spot a poser from a mile away, correction, ten miles away.

Not everybody on the ground is a hero.


Nice try dog slayer. The point of my assertion was not to say that killing somebody with a sniper rifle was the same as killing them with a hand gun, or the same as killing them from a mile away with 25mm. Yes, all three of those guns, which kill people, kill people with differences. The point of my bringing that up, was not to compete with your heroic story of killing puppies in country, but to point out that the government entrusted me with far more firepower than anything you have ever had strapped to your body, and yet they would not allow me to exercise my right to carry a handgun on base, despite the fact that I can carry it off base. It's silly.

Kind of like your response. Standard though.


Thanks for reminding me you have dogs, flame.


Pretty funny to see Snap and Crackel of the online cereal gang talking about being unoriginal. I thought about not mentioning you as a dog slayer to prove you wrong, but I figure I'll throw you a bone. But if a dog grabs that bone, don't shoot it. That doesn't make you a hero. And I don't want you to have flashbacks and start crying online again.

Queue the "you're so mean!" nonsense.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:09 AM
That first piece of evidence of how I "attacked" JD is priceless.


As usual you prove that you can't teach some dogs (oh shit, sorry) new tricks.

Nobody here hates cops. Some on here hate bad cops. Just like hating priests who molest little kids, does not mean a person hates priests. But for you, if you hate a bad cop then you hate all cops. You should be smarter than that, but then again the Air Force invited you to leave and they don't have genius standards or anything, so maybe that isn't the case. You "no" what I mean?

I can't even make a dog joke. It's ok if people call me pissant or reference my armored car, but don't mention canines!

BURAWSKI
05-27-2013, 06:12 AM
This thread has got out of hand. I can think of more important and interesting things to post about.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:13 AM
I understand your frustrations, lets look at the grand scheme of things. You fly jets, put bombs on target and do something kids dream of doing when they get older

does it really matter if an internet handle that is anonymous is reporting a post?

Big picture here

It does matter to me where I spend my time for the purpose of dialog, and if I'm spending my time at a corporate owned website that makes money off the military but which punishes certain unpopular views or has some sort of an online clique that punishes those they don't like, with the excuse that an F'ng war veteran might have his feelings hurt over dog jokes, and uses that to screw with me despite me taking similar insults on a regular basis, then yeah it matters to me. Because I don't want to spend my time on a board that has its fair share of crybaby panzies that is moderated by an idiot.

BOSS302
05-27-2013, 06:13 AM
This thread has got out of hand. I can think of a lot more interesting threads to start.

I challenge you to start an interesting thread from the following three options:

- Cleaning Supplies
- Zebras
- Man Purses

RobotChicken
05-27-2013, 06:14 AM
:clock:cry:attention:hail:laser:target:hurt:hurt:h urt

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:14 AM
While I'm sure PYB's response will be nothing but insults and how he is better than me. Look at your post history on this forum. Just review it. Its nothing but flat out attacks, your mamma jokes, I banged your wife jokes, you lack education jokes. You have made a e-career of being John Doe's brother Dill. You are in conflict with over half the active posters on this site. To say you are in the cross hairs of the admin would be the understatement of the year.

In addition as you yourself have stated many times. It's just a message board, it's not real life. Who cares? At the end of the day, you have a job, a family, food on the table and health. Correct? is what occurs on a message board on the internet so important that it rents space in your head and causes you to lose any of the above listed?

Does this site dictate your life? Unlike real life all you have to do is click that red X in the upper right corner and its gone.

There are mountains and there are mole hills. Your making this mole hill into a mountain.

* waits for personal attacks

Really? So my participation on this forum has ONLY been mama jokes (oh my!) and such? Man, and to think I offered some decent stuff to compete with Lady Gaga Takes a Dump threads. I guess I was just completely off.

But hey, if the way the board is moderated now is not to report a current or recent post and punish it for violating the TOS, but rather is to dig into the past of the board and pull up select posts to justify punishing some and not others, well I suppose that works too.

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:15 AM
So BURAWSKI and SGT HULK are duplicate accounts too??? How interesting.

Surely you realize I was mocking him right?

he reposted that same thing in this thread twice

cmon dude you're way off your game this morning

Banned
05-27-2013, 06:17 AM
It is just an Internet forum; an Internet forum built around a civilian "news" outlet that is essentially a military-flavored National Enquirer.

I think the mod(s) need to take their foot off the neck; if PYB will be singled-out, then everyone needs to be singled-out because almost everyone has insulted, flamed, ridiculed, and degraded someone on this board or done the same to their point of view. I do not agree with PYB a lot, if ever, but there seems to be some isolation going on here by the mod(s)...and that could be a precedent.

Unless there are death threats or something extreme, I believe the mod(s) just need to let it roll and let people hash it out. If it gets to be too much, then just lock the thread & move on.

There are MULTIPLE people on this forum - myself included - who have been equally aggressive as PYB. Yet we're not the subject of this scrutiny. I'm guessing that this is not so much that he's aggressive, but that his views are unpopular.

What's all the more ironic is that, as a libertarian, somewhat conservative, pro-gun type - most of the people here agree with 99% of what he believes...

I'm the opposite - I partially or completely disagree with 99% of what he says - though we apparently agree on the few topics that matter the most these days. What's very interesting is that in his early days, when he was declared "uncool", everybody distanced themselves from him, not wanting to be caught associating with someone who's not cool.

Those of us who do continue talking to him... well, we're told we're in a "love triangle", or a "love affair", or "gay lovers", or whatever. And ironically, these accusations come from members who claim not to be homophobic.

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:17 AM
to think, I'm on yourside and trying to get you to see the big picture, and I was mocking the clown that was posting the same thing over and over

lol at Mod. i dont care near enough about the internet to get worked up nor moderate something i have little time for. Its simply coffee time and morning paper

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:18 AM
I understand your frustrations, lets look at the grand scheme of things. You fly jets, put bombs on target and do something kids dream of doing when they get older

does it really matter if an internet handle that is anonymous is reporting a post?

Big picture here

Banned
05-27-2013, 06:18 AM
There are MULTIPLE people on this forum - myself included - who have been equally aggressive as PYB. Yet we're not the subject of this scrutiny. I'm guessing that this is not so much that he's aggressive, but that his views are unpopular.

What's all the more ironic is that, as a libertarian, somewhat conservative, pro-gun type - most of the people here agree with 99% of what he believes...

I'm the opposite - I partially or completely disagree with 99% of what he says - though we apparently agree on the few topics that matter the most these days. What's very interesting is that in his early days, when he was declared "uncool", everybody distanced themselves from him, not wanting to be caught associating with someone who's not cool.

Those of us who do continue talking to him... well, we're told we're in a "love triangle", or a "love affair", or "gay lovers", or whatever. And ironically, these accusations come from members who claim not to be homophobic.

This forum is completely fucked... this last post ended up at the top of the previous page.

BOSS302
05-27-2013, 06:19 AM
It is just an Internet forum; an Internet forum built around a civilian "news" outlet that is essentially a military-flavored National Enquirer.

I think the mod(s) need to take their foot off the neck; if PYB will be singled-out, then everyone needs to be singled-out because almost everyone has insulted, flamed, ridiculed, and degraded someone on this board or done the same to their point of view. I do not agree with PYB a lot, if ever, but there seems to be some isolation going on here by the mod(s)...and that could be a precedent.

Unless there are death threats or something extreme, I believe the mod(s) just need to let it roll and let people hash it out. If it gets to be too much, then just lock the thread & move on.

BURAWSKI
05-27-2013, 06:21 AM
This thread has got out of hand. I can think of a lot more interesting threads to start.

Banned
05-27-2013, 06:21 AM
anyone else seeing these posts jumble around the site

This shit is completely fucking retarded.

Banned
05-27-2013, 06:21 AM
anyone else seeing these posts jumble around the site

This shit is completely fucking retarded.

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:22 AM
This thread has got out of hand. I can think of more important and interesting things to post about.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:22 AM
This thread has got out of hand. I can think of a lot more interesting threads to start.

So go start them and stay out of this thread that doesn't interest you?

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:22 AM
Surely you realize I was mocking him right?

he reposted that same thing in this thread twice

cmon dude you're way off your game this morning

You were mocking him in the very same minute? By posting almost the same exact thing?

And there are some thread deletes going on too, and quick action. I think you may very well be the moderator, but you definitely have duplicate accounts.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:22 AM
So BURAWSKI and SGT HULK are duplicate accounts too??? How interesting.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:23 AM
This thread has got out of hand. I can think of a lot more interesting threads to start.


This thread has got out of hand. I can think of more important and interesting things to post about.

What is going on in this forum?

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:24 AM
I am going to go out on a limb here, and say that Sgt Hulk is a moderator here.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:25 AM
There are MULTIPLE people on this forum - myself included - who have been equally aggressive as PYB. Yet we're not the subject of this scrutiny. I'm guessing that this is not so much that he's aggressive, but that his views are unpopular.

What's all the more ironic is that, as a libertarian, somewhat conservative, pro-gun type - most of the people here agree with 99% of what he believes...

I'm the opposite - I partially or completely disagree with 99% of what he says - though we apparently agree on the few topics that matter the most these days. What's very interesting is that in his early days, when he was declared "uncool", everybody distanced themselves from him, not wanting to be caught associating with someone who's not cool.

Those of us who do continue talking to him... well, we're told we're in a "love triangle", or a "love affair", or "gay lovers", or whatever. And ironically, these accusations come from members who claim not to be homophobic.

These forum posts are jacked up.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:25 AM
It is just an Internet forum; an Internet forum built around a civilian "news" outlet that is essentially a military-flavored National Enquirer.

I think the mod(s) need to take their foot off the neck; if PYB will be singled-out, then everyone needs to be singled-out because almost everyone has insulted, flamed, ridiculed, and degraded someone on this board or done the same to their point of view. I do not agree with PYB a lot, if ever, but there seems to be some isolation going on here by the mod(s)...and that could be a precedent.

Unless there are death threats or something extreme, I believe the mod(s) just need to let it roll and let people hash it out. If it gets to be too much, then just lock the thread & move on.

I'm not sure it's just me being singled out. I think it's just some folks versus other folks, and just moderation that should be applied more evenly and transparently.

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:28 AM
anyone else seeing these posts jumble around the site

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:28 AM
OMG look 1 minute later

guys Im PYB i have 3 accounts

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:29 AM
OMG guys look i have 3 accounts now I am PYB we posted the same thing within moments

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:32 AM
OMG guys look i have 3 accounts now I am PYB we posted the same thing within moments

Oh, thou doest protest too much. ForumAdmin.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:32 AM
Surely you realize I was mocking him right?

he reposted that same thing in this thread twice

cmon dude you're way off your game this morning

So he posted twice and you mocked him by basically saying the same thing, with minor changes, within a minute of his posts? And I only saw one post by him.

What is that first core value?

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:36 AM
You were mocking him in the very same minute? By posting almost the same exact thing?

And there are some thread deletes going on too, and quick action. I think you may very well be the moderator, but you definitely have duplicate accounts.

conspiracy for the win, You're now going off time stamps, time stamps in a thread in which posts that are being posted right now are showing up on page 4 and jumbling around.

forum admin please for the love of all that is holy, post my IP address along with the other guys just to prove tin foil here that I do not have duplicate accounts, moderator too lol

i post about once every few months on this site.

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:36 AM
So now time stamps are changing?

I have a screen grab of Burawski posting a comment, and then the very next minute Sgt Hulk posting the same comment with a couple deviations, and now the time stamps don't match.

Let me guess, this thread will get deleted in 3,2,1...

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:36 AM
Im also sandjames JD, Joe Bonham, shrike, Pickyourbattles and Chief B

actually 90% of this forum is me and TAK

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:37 AM
So now time stamps are changing?

I have a screen grab of Burawski posting a comment, and then the very next minute Sgt Hulk posting the same comment with a couple deviations, and now the time stamps don't match.

Let me guess, this thread will get deleted in 3,2,1...

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:37 AM
Im also sandjames JD, Joe Bonham, shrike, Pickyourbattles and Chief B

actually 90% of this forum is me and TAK

That wouldn't shock me actually.

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:38 AM
OMG guys look i have 3 accounts now I am PYB we posted the same thing within moments

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:39 AM
So Burawski posts "This thread got out of hand. I can think of a lot more interesting threads to start" at 1:21.

Then Sgt Hulk posts "This thread got out of hand. I can think of more important and interesting things to post about" at 1:22

Then when confronted, Sgt Hulk says he was posting that to make fun of Burawski?

Then the time stamps change?

And Sgt Hulk has been one of the most anti-PYB dudes on the board... Something doesn't add up.

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:40 AM
So Burawski posts "This thread got out of hand. I can think of a lot more interesting threads to start" at 1:21.

Then Sgt Hulk posts "This thread got out of hand. I can think of more important and interesting things to post about" at 1:22

Then when confronted, Sgt Hulk says he was posting that to make fun of Burawski?

Then the time stamps change?

And Sgt Hulk has been one of the most anti-PYB dudes on the board... Something doesn't add up

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:42 AM
See how easy copy and paste is.

I came into this thread on YOUR side, YOUR side, you have now reverted back to tin foil hat theories. that dude burawaski reposted the exact same quote 3 times in this thread i copied and pasted just as I have done to you.

again I came in backing you up, a error that i now realize as you cannot be helped at all, there is little medicine on this earth that can cure what you have.

again its a message board, I feel for you. I tried to support you and came in here backing you up and now well I have 6 accounts a moderator and a big conspriacy is on hand

im off to work lol

god bless buddy, you need jesus or valium or anti-depressents in your life

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:44 AM
btw check post 55 and post 66 in your thread you will see he posted the exact comments that I copied and pasted

PickYourBattles
05-27-2013, 06:44 AM
See how easy copy and paste is.

I came into this thread on YOUR side, YOUR side, you have now reverted back to tin foil hat theories. that dude burawaski reposted the exact same quote 3 times in this thread i copied and pasted just as I have done to you.

again I came in backing you up, a error that i now realize as you cannot be helped at all, there is little medicine on this earth that can cure what you have.

again its a message board, I feel for you. I tried to support you and came in here backing you up and now well I have 6 accounts a moderator and a big conspriacy is on hand

im off to work lol

god bless buddy, you need jesus or valium or anti-depressents in your life

Right. You got caught.

imported_Sgt HULK
05-27-2013, 06:46 AM
Im also sandjames JD, Joe Bonham, shrike, Pickyourbattles and Chief B

actually 90% of this forum is me and TAK

Banned
05-27-2013, 06:48 AM
Im also sandjames JD, Joe Bonham, shrike, Pickyourbattles and Chief B

actually 90% of this forum is me and TAK

Actually, we are all alt accounts by Magic Sky Man.

I'm surprised JD hasn't reported me for all the magic references.