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View Full Version : With 10 patterns, U.S. military branches out on camouflage front



ConfusedAirman
05-09-2013, 10:58 AM
In 2002, the U.S. military had just two kinds of camouflage uniforms. One was green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Dress_Uniform), for the woods. The other was brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Camouflage_Uniform), for the desert.

Then things got strange.

Today, there is one camouflage pattern just for Marines in the desert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARPAT). There is another just for Navy personnel (https://portal.navfac.navy.mil/portal/page/portal/navfac/nwu/gallery) in the desert. The Army has its own “universal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Camouflage_Pattern)” camouflage pattern, which is designed to work anywhere. It also has another one (http://www.army.mil/article/71921/) just for Afghanistan, where the first one doesn’t work.

Even the Air Force has its own unique camouflage, used in a new Airman Battle Uniform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airman_Battle_Uniform). But it has flaws. So in Afghanistan, airmen are told not to wear it in battle.

In just 11 years, two kinds of camouflage have turned into 10. And a simple aspect of the U.S. government has emerged as a complicated and expensive case study in federal duplication.


Read more at http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-military-has-10-kinds-of-camouflage-uniforms-government-duplication-at-its-finest/2013/05/08/58f2fe4e-b67c-11e2-bd07-b6e0e6152528_story.html

ConfusedAirman
05-09-2013, 11:11 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rw/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/05/08/National-Politics/Graphics/w-camouflage.jpg

Absinthe Anecdote
05-09-2013, 12:54 PM
The duplication problem grows out of three qualities that are deeply rooted in Washington. Good intentions. Little patience. And a lust for new turf.

Absinthe Anecdote
05-09-2013, 01:22 PM
http://www.afisr.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/120402-F-UV300-033copy.jpg

Pattern No. 7 came from the Air Force. On the surface, that did not make a whole lot of sense: Only a subset of Air Force personnel fight on the ground, including rescuers of downed pilots and battlefield air controllers. But the branch still spent $3.1 million to come up with its own ground combat uniform. It was a “tiger stripe” pattern, a throwback to camouflage used in the Vietnam War.

But it was not well-suited to Afghanistan.

“They were not designed to hide anybody. They were designed to look cool,” said O’Neill, the West Point camouflage expert, giving his outside appraisal of the Air Force design. “It’s what we call ‘CDI Factor.’ Which is, ‘Chicks dig it.’ ”

JD2780
05-09-2013, 01:25 PM
However, none of the battlefield jobs wanted the pattern. It sucked and it still sucks.

SomeRandomGuy
05-09-2013, 01:30 PM
However, none of the battlefield jobs wanted the pattern. It sucked and it still sucks.

It was not designed for the battleffield. It was designed for the office. Have you seen how many pen pockets those things have? Trust me no one ever needed to ask if I had an extra pen. I always had at least 10 on me and room for more.

Absinthe Anecdote
05-09-2013, 01:32 PM
The Navy spent more than $435,000 on three new designs. One was a blue-and-gray pattern, to be worn aboard ships. Pattern No. 8.
Sailors worried that it would hide them at the one time they would want to be found.

“You fall in the damn water and you’re wearing water-colored camouflage. What the hell is that?” said one active-duty petty officer. He asked that his name be withheld because he was criticizing a decision by the brass. “It’s not logical. It’s not logical at all to have water-colored uniforms.”

ConfusedAirman
05-09-2013, 01:39 PM
Pattern No. 7 came from the Air Force. On the surface, that did not make a whole lot of sense: Only a subset of Air Force personnel fight on the ground, including rescuers of downed pilots and battlefield air controllers. But the branch still spent $3.1 million to come up with its own ground combat uniform. It was a “tiger stripe” pattern, a throwback to camouflage used in the Vietnam War.

But it was not well-suited to Afghanistan.

“They were not designed to hide anybody. They were designed to look cool,” said O’Neill, the West Point camouflage expert, giving his outside appraisal of the Air Force design. “It’s what we call ‘CDI Factor.’ Which is, ‘Chicks dig it.’ ”

If chicks dig it so much, why do so many guys resort to sexual assault? Just wave your ABU in their face and have them creaming their jeans.

sandsjames
05-09-2013, 01:52 PM
If chicks dig it so much, why do so many guys resort to sexual assault? Just wave your ABU in their face and have them creaming their jeans.

The guys don't realize it's sexual assault until it's too late. The problem is the camo is just too good. When we're in uniform we are virtually invisible. Women don't even see us so by the time we've banged them they can easily claim they didn't consent. I think the general argument is "I didn't even see him cummin'" Damn camo...

Tak
05-09-2013, 02:07 PM
This is a good metaphor for what is wrong with military.

SomeRandomGuy
05-09-2013, 02:16 PM
You fall in the damn water and you’re wearing water-colored camouflage. What the hell is that?”

I love how the Navy has CAMO uniforms. You guys will never spot me on my massive ship out in the middle of the ocean. Even if you do I will just jump in the water. Who is laughing now?

Absinthe Anecdote
05-09-2013, 02:47 PM
I love how the Navy has CAMO uniforms. You guys will never spot me on my massive ship out in the middle of the ocean. Even if you do I will just jump in the water. Who is laughing now?

Makes perfect sense to me, they even have a pattern for when the skies are cloudy and the seas are gray.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FQZ4BEvtBmM/T_zVrzv6vDI/AAAAAAAAF-s/JUdu_9Fz6U0/s1600/approved_digi_-_high_res-735x637.jpg

Tak
05-09-2013, 02:57 PM
Makes perfect sense to me, they even have a pattern for when the skies are cloudy and the seas are gray.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FQZ4BEvtBmM/T_zVrzv6vDI/AAAAAAAAF-s/JUdu_9Fz6U0/s1600/approved_digi_-_high_res-735x637.jpg

Ha, no shine boots optional, like their sales pitching them. Are their boots black?
Remember af green boot debacle?
http://www.afmc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123187882

RobotChicken
05-09-2013, 03:32 PM
:clock Brother and I were talking about that yesterday....like WTF is this? Dungarees were the best, float good too! :usa2

RobotChicken
05-09-2013, 03:42 PM
:spy Sky hooks, compass bearing 'grease', shaft alley, porthole, LOL!! 'Over (your) head, HEAD.

SomeRandomGuy
05-09-2013, 03:43 PM
:clock Brother and I were talking about that yesterday....like WTF is this? Dungarees were the best, float good too! :usa2

The worst part about the navy is their insistence on calling things on land by the name they would be called on a boat.

Floor=Deck
Kitchen=Galley
Bathroom=Head
Lobby=Quarterdeck

If you insist on these terms do not get mad at me when I make fun of them. When I was at Norfolk we had to do details. In my best pirate voice I said, "Arghh me maties! I will swab the deck!" No one thought it was funny and I ended up with extra details.

Measure Man
05-09-2013, 03:50 PM
We spend more time deciding what to wear than high school girls shopping for the prom.

imported_SergeantJack
05-09-2013, 03:52 PM
This is a good metaphor for what is wrong with military.

Chlamydia is a good metaphor for what is wrong with the military.

Bumble78
05-09-2013, 05:18 PM
Chlamydia is a good metaphor for what is wrong with the military.

Listen. I don't care what you say. Chlamydia is a soup. It's my opinion. I can have that if I'd like. You don't have to argue. I've seen it on the grocery store shelf. Don't argue with me about it. I don't care if you are a doctor.

Rusty Jones
05-09-2013, 05:50 PM
I never understood why everyone bitches about the NWU camoflauge pattern. First off, they're worn on the same occasion as the utility/wash khaki uniforms that preceded it - onboard ship, and inport. Coveralls were, and still are, worn underway.

By the way, look at the color of the coveralls, and tell me that you can fall overboard and be found in THOSE things.

The only way to really support that argument is by suggesting an orange uniform.

From what I've seen, usually the people bitching about NWU's are either Chiefs/Officers who are pissed because they have to wear the same uniform as PO1's and below (i.e., they had to give up their precious wash khakis); or young Sailors who weren't around for the utility uniforms (and, thus, have no clue how much of a pain in the ass those things were), and simply repeat their LCPO's bitchings because they want to align themselves with the old salts.

By the way, that picture is of old protype uniforms. The final product is different from what's in that pic.

VFFTSGT
05-09-2013, 06:42 PM
Read more at http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-military-has-10-kinds-of-camouflage-uniforms-government-duplication-at-its-finest/2013/05/08/58f2fe4e-b67c-11e2-bd07-b6e0e6152528_story.html


In just 11 years, two kinds of camouflage have turned into 10. And a simple aspect of the U.S. government has emerged as a complicated and expensive case study in federal duplication.

About time the civlian media pick up on the uniform failures, but as the story noted it is only one symptom of a vast problem.


There are, for instance, at least 209 federal programs to improve science and math skills.

Tak
05-09-2013, 07:38 PM
http://tigerstripeproducts.com/airforcetiger/

MisterBen
05-09-2013, 10:36 PM
I guess the announcement will happen for the Army's birthday.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130415/NEWS/304150002/New-camo-coming-Who-gets-when

MisterBen
05-09-2013, 10:37 PM
I guess the announcement will happen for the Army's birthday.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130415/NEWS/304150002/New-camo-coming-Who-gets-when

Measure Man
05-09-2013, 11:11 PM
Nothing will ever beat the old AF Permanent Press fatigues... $13 per set, came out of the dryer without a wrinkle...you could cut the sleeves short, shirt tucked in or out...blouse boots or wear low quarters or chuka boots, sq ball caps,...unit patches...it really was the best.

AF Comm Guy
05-10-2013, 12:21 AM
http://tigerstripeproducts.com/airforcetiger/

I remember that blue tiger stripe monstrosity that the AF field tested for a while. Our unit in Japan got a visit from the PACAF chief (Chief Roy, I think) and he was all gung ho for it. We all had trouble keeping a straight face because it looked so hideous and was as wrinkled as my grandma's ass. Seriously, a command chief looking like a duffel bag was such an embarrassment. I just want to know why some office weenie was field testing a uniform instead of a maintenance or combat troop?

For the old timers out there, what was your opinion of the pickle suit? Were they comfortable? Durable? Did they provide decent camouflage in the woods/jungle? I'd really like to know.

KellyinAvon
05-10-2013, 12:54 AM
Nothing will ever beat the old AF Permanent Press fatigues... $13 per set, came out of the dryer without a wrinkle...you could cut the sleeves short, shirt tucked in or out...blouse boots or wear low quarters or chuka boots, sq ball caps,...unit patches...it really was the best.

You beat me to it, MM. BRING BACK GREEN FATIGUES!! Short sleeves, ball cap, unit patches, bloused or not, fatigues rocked!

fufu
05-10-2013, 01:23 AM
You beat me to it, MM. BRING BACK GREEN FATIGUES!! Short sleeves, ball cap, unit patches, bloused or not, fatigues rocked!

I would love not to have to blouse my pants. I hate it, its hot and looks dumb as hell IMO.

AF Comm Guy
05-10-2013, 02:37 AM
People complain about the Marines not sharing their pattern but I'm impressed at how little they spent to design and field test a uniform which ended up working out pretty well. $319K isn't very much money at all, especially when the other services spent millions to accomplish less. I'm not bothered so much by the services changing to their own uniforms. What bothers me is how long they took to finally produce a total failure, especially the the air force. After five years we ended up with camouflage that doesn't hide anyone made of material that glows in the dark and is so thick and heavy that it was considered hazardous to wear in the desert. Then, to add insult to injury, the damned thing ended up being flammable. So then, one single air force uniform became two uniforms, cotton/poly and then all cotton. But wait, then there's the desert version that came out for a while which was like the OCP but didn't last long because ABU's were deemed useless in the desert. After that, it was just easier to issue the OCP to deploying airmen rather than develop a fourth uniform. Did I say there was no fourth uniform? Oh, silly me. Now we finally have a summer weight ABU which has been in production for over a year but still won't be available outside of the southern states until winter... of 2014.

Hey, uniform designers. YOU SUCK AT YOUR JOBS!!! You are total, abject failures at what you do! I don't know if this was a military, civilian or combined effort but the people involved should be ashamed of themselves. If you're going to develop a new uniform, ask the Marines who were involved in their redesign. They got it right and for very little money. There is no need to reinvent the wheel every single time.

Only three more years to retirement. Hopefully there won't be anymore changes before then.

Measure Man
05-10-2013, 03:20 AM
I don't think the SNCO's of today could handle that level of unprofessionalism.

Grease stains meant you worked for living...:faint

VFFTSGT
05-10-2013, 03:23 AM
Nothing will ever beat the old AF Permanent Press fatigues... $13 per set, came out of the dryer without a wrinkle...you could cut the sleeves short, shirt tucked in or out...blouse boots or wear low quarters or chuka boots, sq ball caps,...unit patches...it really was the best.

I don't think the SNCO's of today could handle that level of unprofessionalism.

And officers couldn't handle enlisted having that many choices.