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Absinthe Anecdote
04-21-2013, 03:40 PM
Unfortunately this isn’t another miracle tactic to pass the PT test but it is testimony from one of the recent MTI court-martials.

I would like to think that I would have flat out refused to have done that crap if ordered to do so by a TI; however, I can’t say with a hundred percent certainty as an 18 year old recruit that I would have refused the order.

I’ll ask the question to you guys.

Would you have refused to play TSgt Bass’s shower games? Would you have chosen to be recycled or applied the icy hot?

Excerpts from story and link are below:

----------------------------------------------------
The testimony Wednesday centered on a group of trainees in Lackland in fall 2009, when Bass was certifying a new drill sergeant. Both oversaw the group of 50 to 60 trainees, called a band flight because the members could play musical instruments.

The first to testify was Tech. Sgt. James McBride, the new drill sergeant. Testifying with immunity from prosecution, he said Bass at times sent him home or allowed him to run errands when some of the alleged hazing and misconduct occurred. But he did describe a distraught group of trainees he encountered upon his return after what prosecutors call the shower incident.

Witnesses blush

The other five witnesses, three still in the military and two now civilians, will not be identified because of the sexual nature of the charges.
Two in uniform blushed at times while testifying.

The trainee witnesses said they did what they were told because they feared their basic training would be prolonged if they didn't.

They talked of being ordered, while naked in the shower with bodies touching, to reach as high as they could and to bend over and touch the wall as low as they could.

One told of being called into Bass' office and ordered to apply Icy Hot muscle cream to his genitals. He said he hurt for hours and he was not allowed to wash it off.
Another said he was called into Bass' office and given an option of the Icy Hot or taking the risk of having his basic training extended. He said he chose the Icy Hot, saying washing it off would have made it worse.

All told of an incident when their trainee leaders were brought out in their underwear and ordered to do pushups while the rest of the group was ordered to mock and laugh.

One talked of being ordered to take multiple showers and shave all his body hair except for his arms and legs. Bass also ordered him to write his girlfriend an emotional break-up letter. Another told the jury Bass slammed him against the wall in his office.

No misconduct reports

None of Wednesday's witnesses reported any misconduct until investigators in the Lackland scandal case approached them several years later.

http://www.sunherald.com/2013/04/17/4600409/jury-selection-continues-in-case.html

Witnesses said Bass shared one or two beers with his trainee leaders at the end of the 8 1/2-week course.

Another told the military court he saw several basic trainees lying on their backs in the shower area with their arms and legs up like roaches.

They were "sweating and appeared to be in pain" while other trainees were ordered to defecate in the toilets and not flush. The showers were turned on hot to create steam.

All told some version of being ordered to strip and pack into a shower.

Testimony from trainee leaders in the group was more favorable and two cited the almost four-year lag for their failure to remember details, but they confirmed drinking with Bass.

The military trial is being held at Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi because Bass is stationed there. It is the first case connected with the Lackland sex scandal that became public last year to be tried somewhere other than Lackland, the Texas base that handles basic training for the Air Force.

Bass is also accused of forcible sodomy, a charge that carries life in prison, and having an unprofessional relationship with a man he supervised in 2007 and 2008, while he was deployed in Kyrgyzstan. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/04/18/189023/airmen-testify-about-treatment.html

Robert F. Dorr
04-21-2013, 04:20 PM
I'm not sure what Icy Hot is. I took basic training in summer 1957 and was 17 years old. I cannot imagine refusing any order from the instructor. The term then was Training Instructor (TI) and some were the same rank as me, E-2. Few were higher rank than E-4 or E-5.

Airborne
04-21-2013, 06:35 PM
Icy hot is an over the counter topical cream that is for muscle therapy to relieve mild discomfort after injury or over exertion. It starts off cold then gives you a very warm feeling. There is a very common prank in locker rooms where you put some in a guys jock and once they start to run around it burns like a son of a gun. I dont think it actually damages skin, but on the sensitive skin of the genitals it is very painful and could damage someone with sensitive skin. Im pretty sure it says keep away from mucus membranes and genitals on the label. I wouldnt dream of doing that to females due to serious injury.
The fact that it was band nerds who perhaps never played sports or dealt with locker room type horseplay are of course more apt to not go along with it. That being said, those things shouldnt be done by TIs. Perhaps amongst trainees but not from the supervision.

Tak
04-21-2013, 06:43 PM
I guess bob never saw revenge of the nerds.

tiredretiredE7
04-21-2013, 06:54 PM
----------------------------------------------------
Bass is also accused of forcible sodomy, a charge that carries life in prison, and having an unprofessional relationship with a man he supervised in 2007 and 2008, while he was deployed in Kyrgyzstan. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/04/18/189023/airmen-testify-about-treatment.html

So a gay guy openly abused his position and got to force men to bend over naked in the shower to look at their anuses. But heterosexual MTI is not allowed to look into a shower filled with heterosexual women? I see a double standard open to continued abuses. However, the PC AF will blindly look past this and still allow gay people to be MTI. I won't agree on gay MTIs until heterosexual TI are allowed in view of opposite sex showers. I do believe lesbians can be MTIs. Am I the only one who sees the problem?

Absinthe Anecdote
04-21-2013, 07:51 PM
So a gay guy openly abused his position and got to force men to bend over naked in the shower to look at their anuses. But heterosexual MTI is not allowed to look into a shower filled with heterosexual women? I see a double standard open to continued abuses. However, the PC AF will blindly look past this and still allow gay people to be MTI. I won't agree on gay MTIs until heterosexual TI are allowed in view of opposite sex showers. I do believe lesbians can be MTIs. Am I the only one who sees the problem?

I’m going to assume that you are being sarcastic; even so, I had to read that five times and I’m not sure what your beef is.

Do you want sexual predators, regardless of their orientation, to have equal access to their potential victims?

I’m not sure if that is what you were talking about but it reminded me of the Army chaplain who wrote that long letter to Stars and Stripes a few years ago complaining that he didn’t want to be “eye candy” for homosexuals in the shower. Anyway, I think you were joking so it doesn’t matter.

Would you have chosen to apply Icy Hot or asked to be recycled in basic training?

I think I would have asked to be recycled because it would have given me a chance to talk to a First Sergeant or the CC.

However, at 18 years old I can’t say that I would have figured out that the TI was bluffing and really putting himself in a risky position of having his chain find out about what he was doing to the trainees.

BRUWIN
04-21-2013, 11:47 PM
I’m going to assume that you are being sarcastic; even so, I had to read that five times and I’m not sure what your beef is.



Whatever his beef is I'm sure it will end up the fault of CMSgt's everywhere.

Tak
04-21-2013, 11:49 PM
Whatever his beef is I'm sure it will end up the fault of CMSgt's everywhere.

Yes, that mti had a chief.

KellyinAvon
04-22-2013, 12:13 AM
He got away wih abusing a subordinate at Manas then he went to the one place he could do as he pleased and no one would stand up to him.

tiredretiredE7
04-22-2013, 02:10 AM
I’m going to assume that you are being sarcastic; even so, I had to read that five times and I’m not sure what your beef is.

Do you want sexual predators, regardless of their orientation, to have equal access to their potential victims?

I’m not sure if that is what you were talking about but it reminded me of the Army chaplain who wrote that long letter to Stars and Stripes a few years ago complaining that he didn’t want to be “eye candy” for homosexuals in the shower. Anyway, I think you were joking so it doesn’t matter.

I am not joking and I brought up this same scenario when DADT was repealed. There are some jobs homosexuals should not be allowed to perform in the AF. You are missing a very valid point that I am trying to make. AF can no longer have a muscle magazine on their desk because it might be offensive. How it is not offensive for a gay man to be able to look at a shower full of naked dudes? How it is any different for a heterosexual man to be reading a pornographic magazine at his desk? There is clearly a double standard for gay men. I would be very offended to have some gay man staring at my naked body while I was in the shower. I guess it would not bother you if a gay guy was staring at you naked in the showering and imagining all of the things he would like to do to your body? Again, there is clearly a double standard for homosexuals.

My prediction is a LOR, a fine no loss of rank and retained on active duty due to the PC of the AF if this even goes to court martial.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-22-2013, 03:20 AM
I am not joking and I brought up this same scenario when DADT was repealed. There are some jobs homosexuals should not be allowed to perform in the AF. You are missing a very valid point that I am trying to make. AF can no longer have a muscle magazine on their desk because it might be offensive. How it is not offensive for a gay man to be able to look at a shower full of naked dudes? How it is any different for a heterosexual man to be reading a pornographic magazine at his desk? There is clearly a double standard for gay men. I would be very offended to have some gay man staring at my naked body while I was in the shower. I guess it would not bother you if a gay guy was staring at you naked in the showering and imagining all of the things he would like to do to your body? Again, there is clearly a double standard for homosexuals.

My prediction is a LOR, a fine no loss of rank and retained on active duty due to the PC of the AF if this even goes to court martial.

So much for giving you the benefit of a doubt!

You are sounding more and more like an idiot and if I am missing your point it is because you are doing a lousy job explaining it.

The muscle magazine and porno magazine analogy is completely lost on me.

Just how did DADT protect you from the leers of a latent homosexual in the shower?

There were still gay dudes in the military under DADT so I fail to see how it prevented anyone from sneaking glances at ding dongs in the shower and having fantasies.

It sounds like you are upset that gay dudes don’t have to hide anymore but again, I’m not sure I understand what your beef is.

TSgt Bass is being accused of much more than looking at his trainees. The court martial proceeding are under way and the verdict is expected next week.

Tak
04-22-2013, 03:21 AM
So much for giving you the benefit of a doubt!

You are sounding more and more like an idiot and if I am missing your point it is because you are doing a lousy job explaining it.

The muscle magazine and porno magazine analogy is completely lost on me.

Just how did DADT protect you from the leers of a latent homosexual in the shower?

There were still gay dudes in the military under DADT so I fail to see how it prevented anyone from sneaking glances at ding dongs in the shower and having fantasies.

It sounds like you are upset that gay dudes don’t have to hide anymore but again, I’m not sure I understand what your beef is.

TSgt Bass is being accused of much more than looking at his trainees. The court martial proceeding are under way and the verdict is expected next week.

I am very disappointed in the lot of you!

There is nothing in that article to suggest that Chief Master Sgt. Buckner resigned for any dishonorable reason.

It is just as Bruwin said, she or one of her family members could be in poor health.

You guys should be ashamed! I think you should do something to redeem yourselves.

If my years as a member of the Top 3 taught me anything it was that nothing builds character better than baking.

Tak, since you were the worst offender, go bake a batch of double fudge packed brownies.

If you need help packing your fudge get Flaps to help you.

Now get going!

I’ll stay here and write EPR bullets.

tiredretiredE7
04-22-2013, 03:21 AM
Whatever his beef is I'm sure it will end up the fault of CMSgt's everywhere.

So you are saying a Chief should not have known about the abuses by NCOs under their charge? I thought most Chiefs got out from behind their desks and visited their troops in work centers. Oh wait, Chiefs stopped doing that 15 years ago. Thanks for reminding me. I guess it is much better for a Chief to just stay behind their desk and use the "I didn't know it was happening excuse".

tiredretiredE7
04-22-2013, 03:27 AM
I am very disappointed in the lot of you!

There is nothing in that article to suggest that Chief Master Sgt. Buckner resigned for any dishonorable reason.

It is just as Bruwin said, she or one of her family members could be in poor health.

You guys should be ashamed! I think you should do something to redeem yourselves.

If my years as a member of the Top 3 taught me anything it was that nothing builds character better than baking.

Tak, since you were the worst offender, go bake a batch of double fudge packed brownies.

If you need help packing your fudge get Flaps to help you.

Now get going!

I’ll stay here and write EPR bullets.

Classic Tak, I thought you were losing your touch for awhile.

tiredretiredE7
04-22-2013, 03:27 AM
I am very disappointed in the lot of you!

There is nothing in that article to suggest that Chief Master Sgt. Buckner resigned for any dishonorable reason.

It is just as Bruwin said, she or one of her family members could be in poor health.

You guys should be ashamed! I think you should do something to redeem yourselves.

If my years as a member of the Top 3 taught me anything it was that nothing builds character better than baking.

Tak, since you were the worst offender, go bake a batch of double fudge packed brownies.

If you need help packing your fudge get Flaps to help you.

Now get going!

I’ll stay here and write EPR bullets.

Classic Tak, I thought you were losing your touch for awhile.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-22-2013, 03:27 AM
Tak have you been drinking Grandpa's cough medicine or is Robot Chicken logged in under your account again?

tiredretiredE7
04-22-2013, 03:27 AM
So much for giving you the benefit of a doubt!

You are sounding more and more like an idiot and if I am missing your point it is because you are doing a lousy job explaining it.

The muscle magazine and porno magazine analogy is completely lost on me.

Just how did DADT protect you from the leers of a latent homosexual in the shower?

There were still gay dudes in the military under DADT so I fail to see how it prevented anyone from sneaking glances at ding dongs in the shower and having fantasies.

It sounds like you are upset that gay dudes don’t have to hide anymore but again, I’m not sure I understand what your beef is.

TSgt Bass is being accused of much more than looking at his trainees. The court martial proceeding are under way and the verdict is expected next week.

Trolled, hook line and sinker, thanks for playing. I do still think he will get a slap on the wrist and returned to AD. The jury is deliberating on Monday so there should be a finding Monday afternoon.

Tak
04-22-2013, 03:29 AM
Tak have you been drinking Grandpa's cough medicine or is Robot Chicken logged in under your account again?
:hat:cell:spider:phone
:preggers:lock1:scared

Absinthe Anecdote
04-22-2013, 03:30 AM
:hat:cell:spider:phone
:preggers:lock1:scared

I thought so!

tiredretiredE7
04-22-2013, 04:00 AM
So much for giving you the benefit of a doubt!

Just how did DADT protect you from the leers of a latent homosexual in the shower?

TSgt Bass is being accused of much more than looking at his trainees. The court martial proceeding are under way and the verdict is expected next week.

This is almost over and has already gone to the jury. http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/military/article/Lackland-trainer-on-trial-for-abuse-charges-4435917.php vedict should be complete Monday afternoon.

CrustySMSgt
04-22-2013, 04:43 AM
So a gay guy openly abused his position and got to force men to bend over naked in the shower to look at their anuses. But heterosexual MTI is not allowed to look into a shower filled with heterosexual women? I see a double standard open to continued abuses. However, the PC AF will blindly look past this and still allow gay people to be MTI. I won't agree on gay MTIs until heterosexual TI are allowed in view of opposite sex showers. I do believe lesbians can be MTIs. Am I the only one who sees the problem?

Unfortunately not.



So much for giving you the benefit of a doubt!

You are sounding more and more like an idiot and if I am missing your point it is because you are doing a lousy job explaining it.


You obviously haven't read his previous posts.

Drackore
04-22-2013, 06:34 AM
I have to agree with what was said earlier - it is indeed a double standard when you allow unfettered access to the desires of one sexual orientation and segregate for another, claiming sexual harassment/assault/predators.

DoD is saying only straight men are the problems. We've been having male on male crimes for years now. I think this highlights the problem at its very core now.

Everyone here agrees that society SHOULD be capable of certain things. A woman SHOULD be able to dress how she wants and not expect to get raped. A child SHOULD be able to walk to school without some perv pulling up next to him and trying to coax the kid into the van. A woman SHOULD tell the truth and not have the "next morning regret" of cheating on her husband and NOT claim rape. Whites SHOULD accept blacks. Blacks SHOULD accept whites. The list goes on. Gays SHOULD be allowed to get married.

The problem is the upper case word: SHOULD. Should does not equal WILL. It does not even mandate compliance. What you have is a group of people imposing their will against others for their varied causes and multitude of reasons, of which always include the word: should.

I remember the movie Stormship Troopers, I think that's the title. Basic training shower scene - men and women, naked and showering together. I've seen unisex bathrooms that had men and women in it. Hell even in Japan and Germany I've seen women cleaning men's restrooms without closing the rest room.

The United States still remains uptight about sexuality and the naked form. So long as this lasts - these problems will last. Segregation of the genders really just needs to stop. The argument of "should" is invalid, because you ignore root causes and just want a result in your favor. The easy way out, the shortcuts, the avoidance of real work towards fixing the real problems. That's what DoD lack-of-leadership needs to focus on.

My argument with the repeal of DADT was "If you don't want another man leering at your wife, daughter, girlfriend, or sister than why is it ok for a lesbian to do so?" Well here is a story that backs it all up. Now I am not saying that all gay men and women are as messed in the head as this guy - but given that I went through the joke of a psychological profile to go MTI, well it's easy to see that we have a LOT of work to do. It should have been done before the appeal.

So we "should" (there's that word) end segregation in all forms, all instances. In the end though, people will do what people do. People have beliefs, and I find it funny that one group will slam another over their beliefs and demand acceptance of their own in the same breath. Desegregation efforts of the 70s and 80s amongst the races did work, but not 100%. There will always be white people that don't want to live around colored people, and vice versa. The more you force it, the more problems you will create. Is America truly free, or is freedom of choice just a catch phrase?

Absinthe Anecdote
04-22-2013, 11:36 AM
I have to agree with what was said earlier - it is indeed a double standard when you allow unfettered access to the desires of one sexual orientation and segregate for another, claiming sexual harassment/assault/predators.

DoD is saying only straight men are the problems. We've been having male on male crimes for years now. I think this highlights the problem at its very core now.

Everyone here agrees that society SHOULD be capable of certain things. A woman SHOULD be able to dress how she wants and not expect to get raped. A child SHOULD be able to walk to school without some perv pulling up next to him and trying to coax the kid into the van. A woman SHOULD tell the truth and not have the "next morning regret" of cheating on her husband and NOT claim rape. Whites SHOULD accept blacks. Blacks SHOULD accept whites. The list goes on. Gays SHOULD be allowed to get married.

The problem is the upper case word: SHOULD. Should does not equal WILL. It does not even mandate compliance. What you have is a group of people imposing their will against others for their varied causes and multitude of reasons, of which always include the word: should.

I remember the movie Stormship Troopers, I think that's the title. Basic training shower scene - men and women, naked and showering together. I've seen unisex bathrooms that had men and women in it. Hell even in Japan and Germany I've seen women cleaning men's restrooms without closing the rest room.

The United States still remains uptight about sexuality and the naked form. So long as this lasts - these problems will last. Segregation of the genders really just needs to stop. The argument of "should" is invalid, because you ignore root causes and just want a result in your favor. The easy way out, the shortcuts, the avoidance of real work towards fixing the real problems. That's what DoD lack-of-leadership needs to focus on.

My argument with the repeal of DADT was "If you don't want another man leering at your wife, daughter, girlfriend, or sister than why is it ok for a lesbian to do so?" Well here is a story that backs it all up. Now I am not saying that all gay men and women are as messed in the head as this guy - but given that I went through the joke of a psychological profile to go MTI, well it's easy to see that we have a LOT of work to do. It should have been done before the appeal.

So we "should" (there's that word) end segregation in all forms, all instances. In the end though, people will do what people do. People have beliefs, and I find it funny that one group will slam another over their beliefs and demand acceptance of their own in the same breath. Desegregation efforts of the 70s and 80s amongst the races did work, but not 100%. There will always be white people that don't want to live around colored people, and vice versa. The more you force it, the more problems you will create. Is America truly free, or is freedom of choice just a catch phrase?

I think you just killed this thread; you SHOULD be sorry.

You SHOULD be able to see the many paradoxes in that meandering post.

I SHOULD take the time to try to decipher your post.

You SHOULD put Icy Hot on your genitals and then help Tak and TR-E7 bake a tray of double fudge packed brownies.

Bruwin SHOULD get out from behind his desk and supervise the endeavor.

I’ll stay here and write EPR bullets.

Tak
04-22-2013, 01:01 PM
I think you just killed this thread; you SHOULD be sorry.

You SHOULD be able to see the many paradoxes in that meandering post.

I SHOULD take the time to try to decipher your post.

You SHOULD put Icy Hot on your genitals and then help Tak and TR-E7 bake a tray of double fudge packed brownies.

Bruwin SHOULD get out from behind his desk and supervise the endeavor.

I’ll stay here and write EPR bullets.

For the record, I never did a top 3 event or worked any fundraiser where I cooked.
Now Bru, that's another story, he stopped getting grease on his uniform
Like 20 years ago, at the end, it was mostly batter.

Chief_KO
04-22-2013, 01:49 PM
I think the worst thing we had to do in BMT (30 years ago) was to hand buff the floors with our towels (the buffer was broke).
If all the allegations are against him are true, he is one truly sadistic, sick individual. Too bad he will not have to endure what he forced others to do. My amateur psychiatry degree tells me that he probably burnt ants with a magnifying glass, tortured cats, and was either a bully or was bullied in school. Either way, sick sick sick. Not much of a defense offered either, so...off to Kansas you criminal!!

Absinthe Anecdote
04-22-2013, 03:42 PM
For the record, I never did a top 3 event or worked any fundraiser where I cooked.
Now Bru, that's another story, he stopped getting grease on his uniform
Like 20 years ago, at the end, it was mostly batter.

The sad thing about your post is that you say that as if it is a bad thing.

I say those batter droplets are the true mark of a leader!

After Bruwin mastered the technical aspects of his career field he moved on and kept growing.

He demonstrated the total person concept by supporting his military community in doing all that baking you didn’t do. He also honed his leadership skills on all those Top 3 committees that planed the innumerable BBQs, Bake Sales, Holiday parties, Dinning Outs that you never went to or where forced to go to.

Furthermore, because he is a CCAF graduate he demonstrated that he can figure out the dimensions of a cake pan whose area is 296cm and length is equal to six times its width with the quadratic equation.

What the hell would you do in that situation? I’m guessing you’d do something dumb like go look for a ruler.

You are proud of grease on your uniform? No thank you.

I’ll take the SNCO with cake batter on their uniform every time; although the truly polished SNCO will use an apron and have an immaculate uniform.

I explain this concept in greater detail in my new book entitled “They Also Baked”.

It is possibly the most poignant book ever written on the SNCO corps’ contribution to American Aerospace power.

“They Also Baked” is available on Amazon and in Barnes and Noble bookstores everywhere.

Tak
04-22-2013, 03:57 PM
The sad thing about your post is that you say that as if it is a bad thing.

I say those batter droplets are the true mark of a leader!

After Bruwin mastered the technical aspects of his career field he moved on and kept growing.

demonstrated the total person concept by supporting his military community in doing all that baking you didn’t do. He also honed his leadership skills on all those Top 3 committees that planed the innumerable BBQs, Bake Sales, Holiday parties, Dinning Outs that you never went to or where forced to go to.

Furthermore, because he is a CCAF graduate he demonstrated that he can figure out the dimensions of a cake pan whose area is 296cm and length is equal to six times its width with the quadratic equation.

What the hell would you do in that situation? I’m guessing you’d do something dumb like go look for a ruler.

You are proud of grease on your uniform? No thank you.

I’ll take the SNCO with cake batter on their uniform every time; although the truly polished SNCO will use an apron and have an immaculate uniform.

I explain this concept in greater detail in my new book entitled “They Also Baked”.

It is possibly the most poignant book ever written on the SNCO corps’ contribution to American Aerospace power.

“They Also Baked” is available on Amazon and in Barnes and Noble bookstores everywhere.

Shit, that was funny, I have to admit I like you.
I'd only add, that he also worked in a bachelor's
Between bake sales, something I never got.

tiredretiredE7
04-22-2013, 04:33 PM
The sad thing about your post is that you say that as if it is a bad thing.

I say those batter droplets are the true mark of a leader!

After Bruwin mastered the technical aspects of his career field he moved on and kept growing.

He demonstrated the total person concept by supporting his military community in doing all that baking you didn’t do. He also honed his leadership skills on all those Top 3 committees that planed the innumerable BBQs, Bake Sales, Holiday parties, Dinning Outs that you never went to or where forced to go to.

Furthermore, because he is a CCAF graduate he demonstrated that he can figure out the dimensions of a cake pan whose area is 296cm and length is equal to six times its width with the quadratic equation.

What the hell would you do in that situation? I’m guessing you’d do something dumb like go look for a ruler.

You are proud of grease on your uniform? No thank you.

I’ll take the SNCO with cake batter on their uniform every time; although the truly polished SNCO will use an apron and have an immaculate uniform.

I explain this concept in greater detail in my new book entitled “They Also Baked”.

It is possibly the most poignant book ever written on the SNCO corps’ contribution to American Aerospace power.

“They Also Baked” is available on Amazon and in Barnes and Noble bookstores everywhere.

This is awesome. Thank you for helping start off this week with some awesome AF comedy.

imported_Joker76
04-22-2013, 05:42 PM
I think the worst thing we had to do in BMT was to hand buff the floors with our towels !

No need for coded messages here, we all know what you mean by "hand buff ", "floors", and "towels". You did things that would make icy hot look like a rewards program!!!

Chief_KO
04-22-2013, 06:13 PM
No need for coded messages here, we all know what you mean by "hand buff ", "floors", and "towels". You did things that would make icy hot look like a rewards program!!!

No coded messages. The floor buffer was broke (some of you young'uns may need to google floor buffer to understand the concept). The TI (the one we all hated) said there was no money to fix it and we had to shine the floor. So, hands and knees with one of your towels, we proceeded to buff the floors in each of the bays.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-22-2013, 09:28 PM
No coded messages. The floor buffer was broke (some of you young'uns may need to google floor buffer to understand the concept). The TI (the one we all hated) said there was no money to fix it and we had to shine the floor. So, hands and knees with one of your towels, we proceeded to buff the floors in each of the bays.

What if?

What if you were in TSgt Bass's band flight? What do you think you would have done? Do you think you would have said, Recycle me, Sir." or would you have applied the Icy Hot?

KellyinAvon
04-22-2013, 09:47 PM
What if?

What if you were in TSgt Bass's band flight? What do you think you would have done? Do you think you would have said, Recycle me, Sir." or would you have applied the Icy Hot?

One thing that comes to mind, do recruiters still have meetings with the the kids in DEP and have recent BMT/Tech School grads come and talk?? "Icy Hot on my balls" might have caught someones attention. The lack of anyone EVER saying that might raise a flag with 1 or 2 of the 60 band flight-types?

Chief_KO
04-22-2013, 11:24 PM
[QUOTE=What if you were in TSgt Bass's band flight? What do you think you would have done? Do you think you would have said, Recycle me, Sir." or would you have applied the Icy Hot?[/QUOTE]

Interesting question...how easy it is to manipulate someone into doing something they would normally never do. From where I sit today, I would not have done it. But, I am not an 18 - 25 year old recruit whose entire future (at least in their mind) is hanging on this moment. Hindsight is always 20/20 and Monday Morning quarterbacking is always right.

drc100882
04-22-2013, 11:52 PM
I'm sure this is beside the issue, but this could have been prevented if they had some kind of briefing during zero week where someone comes in and says "this is what you can get recycled for in basic training" followed by a list of things that they actually can be recycled for. Not telling trainees gives the TI too much room to make threats like the kinds in the article. But on the other hand, I would like to think that a male, 18+, would be smart enough to not do this to himself. But like you said Chief_KO - hindsight is 20/20.
My TI was a dick and hated women. He threatened to murder our families when we failed a dorm inspection but never harassed us. This whole Lackland situation needs to go away.

Greg
04-23-2013, 12:04 AM
I'm sure this is beside the issue, but this could have been prevented if they had some kind of briefing during zero week where someone comes in and says "this is what you can get recycled for in basic training" followed by a list of things that they actually can be recycled for. Not telling trainees gives the TI too much room to make threats like the kinds in the article. But on the other hand, I would like to think that a male, 18+, would be smart enough to not do this to himself. But like you said Chief_KO - hindsight is 20/20.
My TI was a dick and hated women. He threatened to murder our families when we failed a dorm inspection but never harassed us. This whole Lackland situation needs to go away.

Never underestimate the collective stupidity of a group consisting of adolescent males.

El Kabong
04-23-2013, 12:52 AM
I'm sure this is beside the issue, but this could have been prevented if they had some kind of briefing during zero week where someone comes in and says "this is what you can get recycled for in basic training" followed by a list of things that they actually can be recycled for. Not telling trainees gives the TI too much room to make threats like the kinds in the article. But on the other hand, I would like to think that a male, 18+, would be smart enough to not do this to himself. But like you said Chief_KO - hindsight is 20/20.
My TI was a dick and hated women. He threatened to murder our families when we failed a dorm inspection but never harassed us. This whole Lackland situation needs to go away.

what do you consider harassment?

Tak
04-23-2013, 01:27 AM
what do you consider harassment?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIV3DVxKBO8

drc100882
04-23-2013, 04:11 AM
what do you consider harassment?

Anything inappropriate. An no, I don't consider him telling us he'll kill our families as harassment. We rolled our eyes and finished cleaning up the aftermath of his tantrum.

sandsjames
04-23-2013, 03:00 PM
Let's not forget the dumbass Army guy who took a sledge hammer to the chest in front of an entire unit of NCO's/SNCO's. If we can't expect him to use common sense, how can we expect newbs to do the same?

Pullinteeth
04-23-2013, 03:43 PM
One thing that comes to mind, do recruiters still have meetings with the the kids in DEP and have recent BMT/Tech School grads come and talk?? "Icy Hot on my balls" might have caught someones attention. The lack of anyone EVER saying that might raise a flag with 1 or 2 of the 60 band flight-types?

I am pretty surprised that someone actually blames the recruiter... Not shocked but it is a stretch. You are of course aware that Recruiter Assistance isn't mandatory right? If it were you, would you say....gee BMT was so much fun I want to go tell everyone about it?

KellyinAvon
04-23-2013, 04:22 PM
I am pretty surprised that someone actually blames the recruiter... Not shocked but it is a stretch. You are of course aware that Recruiter Assistance isn't mandatory right? If it were you, would you say....gee BMT was so much fun I want to go tell everyone about it?

Ain't blamin the recruiter. Just sayin that flags should have gone up. This was something I remember, seemed like it was relavent to the discussion.

With that said, go forth and tell potential band recruits we don't make them put Icy Hot on their genitals, anymore.

SomeRandomGuy
04-23-2013, 04:27 PM
I do not understand this case. Why did the TI need these extreme forms of punishment? In my opinion having to be in the band flight should have been enough. :violin

El Kabong
04-23-2013, 11:09 PM
Anything inappropriate. An no, I don't consider him telling us he'll kill our families as harassment. We rolled our eyes and finished cleaning up the aftermath of his tantrum.

is threatening to kill someones family appropriate?

drc100882
04-23-2013, 11:25 PM
is threatening to kill someones family appropriate?

Well I suppose that if I actually believed he would kill the families of the ENTIRE flight, then it might have seemed a little inappropriate. Luckily, I did realize that he could not actually go and do that. So no, I didn't think of it as inappropriate.

Chief_KO
04-24-2013, 01:46 AM
Guilty on 31 of 35 charges.

Chief_KO
04-24-2013, 01:47 AM
Found guilty on 31 of 35 charges. http://www.sunherald.com/2013/04/23/4614386/ex-training-instructor-guilty.html#storylink=topnext

"I know a lot of bad things were said about me" http://www.sunherald.com/2013/04/23/4615099/sergeant-i-know-there-were-a-lot.html

KellyinAvon
04-24-2013, 02:09 AM
Guilty on 31 of 35 charges.

That's almost as high as the percentage of guilty counts on Sandusky (he went 45 for 48).

CrustySMSgt
04-24-2013, 05:24 AM
is threatening to kill someones family appropriate?

That's right up there with the old school, "I'm going to rip off your head and shit down your neck" or "I'm going to pop out your eyes and skull fuck you." How many necks were shat down or skulls fucked? I don't have a credible source for that data, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say ZERO.

Pretty doubtful anyone would consider the "threat" to be credible.

Smeghead
04-24-2013, 08:11 PM
That's right up there with the old school, "I'm going to rip off your head and shit down your neck" or "I'm going to pop out your eyes and skull fuck you." How many necks were shat down or skulls fucked? I don't have a credible source for that data, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say ZERO.

Pretty doubtful anyone would consider the "threat" to be credible.

Wish that were true but I know two TIs reprimanded and fired for something equally ridiculous. Both in the chow hall--one told his chow runner if she F'd up again he'd kill her with a teaspoon, the other got canned for telling two trainees to hurry up, eat and get the F out.

Smeghead
04-24-2013, 08:17 PM
Found guilty on 31 of 35 charges. http://www.sunherald.com/2013/04/23/4614386/ex-training-instructor-guilty.html#storylink=topnext

"I know a lot of bad things were said about me" http://www.sunherald.com/2013/04/23/4615099/sergeant-i-know-there-were-a-lot.html

6 months and one stripe. What a load of crap.

Measure Man
04-24-2013, 09:10 PM
31 convictions and gets to stay in the AF...I wonder if that's a record?

JD2780
04-24-2013, 09:32 PM
Wish that were true but I know two TIs reprimanded and fired for something equally ridiculous. Both in the chow hall--one told his chow runner if she F'd up again he'd kill her with a teaspoon, the other got canned for telling two trainees to hurry up, eat and get the F out.

Pathetic. The AF is so pathetic it's making me sick.

MajesticThunder
04-24-2013, 09:55 PM
Monetary fine, down a stripe, and ultimate kick in the nuts … no Good Conduct Medal this time around! :dizzy

No punitive discharge during Sexual Assault Prevention Month after now notorious Lackland sex scandal is a shamefully counterproductive outrage. :der

efmbman
04-24-2013, 10:33 PM
This verdict is something to think about carefully just before the Air Force people do the weigh-in or the PT test... that is when your career is really on the line.

KellyinAvon
04-25-2013, 12:31 AM
Wish that were true but I know two TIs reprimanded and fired for something equally ridiculous. Both in the chow hall--one told his chow runner if she F'd up again he'd kill her with a teaspoon, the other got canned for telling two trainees to hurry up, eat and get the F out.

Got canned for telling 2 trainees to hurry up, eat, and get the f out?? There would have been an AF-wide shortage of MTIs in 1986 if they have fired them for that. There'd have been like 2 left!

OtisRNeedleman
04-25-2013, 01:33 AM
What gets me is the female JAG defense counsel was working for no time behind bars. Wonder if she would have felt the same way if what Bass had done to male trainees had been done to female trainees. This certainly isn't the Air Force I so proudly served in for twenty-one years. I wonder what the panel saw or heard that caused them to impose the punishment they did. Or has political correctness in the AF just gone totally amok, where abuse of male trainees isn't counted in the same way as the abuse of female trainees?

I also want to see if these abused male trainees get anyone in Congress to stand up in their behalf, such as the hue and cry in that august body when Lt Gen Franklin overturned Lt Col Wilkerson's conviction. Because I don't believe justice has been done here.

tiredretiredE7
04-25-2013, 01:33 AM
My prediction is a LOR, a fine no loss of rank and retained on active duty due to the PC of the AF if this even goes to court martial.

Well, my prediction was pretty close. Now some of you may be wondering why his punishment was so lenient. Simple, he was a gay TI and the jury did not want the stigma of coming down hard on the first gay TI to be court martialed. I know this is a very politically incorrect statement to make but there isn't any other reason for this punishment. I am sure he will stay in and make MSgt before he retires even though the AF has to get rid of 1200 people this year. Again, as I stated before, there is clearly a double standard for gay men in the military and this case prove my point. Just compare the punishment for the heterosexual TIs who were court martialed. So many of you doubt me and then hate me when I am right and you were wrong. This sets a very bad precedent for Tis in the future. Why should any of them fear any repercussions unless they are hetrosexuals?

OtisRNeedleman
04-25-2013, 01:34 AM
Got canned for telling 2 trainees to hurry up, eat, and get the f out?? There would have been an AF-wide shortage of MTIs in 1986 if they have fired them for that. There'd have been like 2 left!

There wouldn't have been any left at all in 1974.

OtisRNeedleman
04-25-2013, 01:37 AM
Well, my prediction was pretty close. Now some of you may be wondering why his punishment was so lenient. Simple, he was a gay TI and the jury did not want the stigma of coming down hard on the first gay TI to be court martialed. I know this is a very politically incorrect statement to make but there isn't any other reason for this punishment. I am sure he will stay in and make MSgt before he retires even though the AF has to get rid of 1200 people this year. Again, as I stated before, there is clearly a double standard for gay men in the military and this case prove my point. Just compare the punishment for the heterosexual TIs who were court martialed. So many of you doubt me and then hate me when I am right and you were wrong. This sets a very bad precedent for Tis in the future. Why should any of them fear any repercussions unless they are hetrosexuals?

Gay? Married to his high school sweetheart, with four kids? Dunno.

tiredretiredE7
04-25-2013, 01:38 AM
What gets me is the female JAG defense counsel was working for no time behind bars. Wonder if she would have felt the same way if what Bass had done to male trainees had been done to female trainees. This certainly isn't the Air Force I so proudly served in for twenty-one years. I wonder what the panel saw or heard that caused them to impose the punishment they did. Or has political correctness in the AF just gone totally amok, where abuse of male trainees isn't counted in the same way as the abuse of female trainees?

I also want to see if these abused male trainees get anyone in Congress to stand up in their behalf, such as the hue and cry in that august body when Lt Gen Franklin overturned Lt Col Wilkerson's conviction. Because I don't believe justice has been done here.

Great points and great minds do think alike. I just wish there were some other people in these forums like Dakore, Tak you and I who would speak the truth. It is now official, gay men can can have unprofessional relationships with their subordinates.

OtisRNeedleman
04-25-2013, 01:40 AM
Great points and great minds do think alike. I just wish there were some other people like Dakore, Tak you and I who would speak the truth.

Thank you kindly. But all three of us are retired and no longer exist in the eyes of Big Blue except as pension and medical costs. Even if what I wrote did somehow end up in the AF Times doubt anyone in a position of power will even notice. Don't believe the punshment can be increased anyway.

VFFTSGT
04-25-2013, 01:48 AM
Cream of the crop we have these days. Thank goodness for the EPR system that weeds out the trouble makers.

tiredretiredE7
04-25-2013, 01:59 AM
Thank you kindly. But all three of us are retired and no longer exist in the eyes of Big Blue except as pension and medical costs. Even if what I wrote did somehow end up in the AF Times doubt anyone in a position of power will even notice. Don't believe the punshment can be increased anyway.

I spoke the same way on AD. I earned the respect of my subordinates for speaking my mind and ofcourse my leadership (especially Chiefs) did not hearing the truth. So glad I retired when I did and I really feel sorry for those still on AD in the AF. I was hoping the AF would be turning aournd under new leadership but this proves the AF is still in a tailspin and the ground is coming up fast.

imported_DannyJ
04-25-2013, 03:31 AM
Monetary fine, down a stripe, and ultimate kick in the nuts … no Good Conduct Medal this time around! :dizzy

No punitive discharge during Sexual Assault Prevention Month after now notorious Lackland sex scandal is a shamefully counterproductive outrage. :der

This is so beyond f**ked. I've seen people get more for a DUI!!! This guy should be sent to "federal pound-me-in-the-ass" prison. WTF military justice?! Where's the equality!?!?!?!?!?!?

OtisRNeedleman
04-25-2013, 04:29 AM
This is so beyond f**ked. I've seen people get more for a DUI!!! This guy should be sent to "federal pound-me-in-the-ass" prison. WTF military justice?! Where's the equality!?!?!?!?!?!?

The ONLY chance I think these abused men have is to IMMEDIATELY raise hell with their Senator/Congressperson. That MIGHT get something done.

CrustySMSgt
04-25-2013, 06:07 AM
Just compare the punishment for the heterosexual TIs who were court martialed. So many of you doubt me and then hate me when I am right and you were wrong. This sets a very bad precedent for Tis in the future. Why should any of them fear any repercussions unless they are hetrosexuals?

He wasn't accused of sexual assualt or inappropriate relationship as a TI; those charges came from something that happened on a deployment in 07.

I don't hate you. I think a great deal of what you say is completely rediculous, but I don't hate you.


Great points and great minds do think alike. I just wish there were some other people in these forums like Dakore, Tak you and I who would speak the truth.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back there hero.

http://whodeyfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/back_pat.jpg



This verdict is something to think about carefully just before the Air Force people do the weigh-in or the PT test... that is when your career is really on the line.

Sad but true...

tiredretiredE7
04-25-2013, 09:03 AM
I don't hate you. I think a great deal of what you say is completely rediculous, but I don't hate you.
Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back there hero.

I like how you reply to my comments but do not have any counter points to make. I believe you actually agree with my on a lot of my comments but you can't publically reply due to your location being "Air, Space, and Cyberspace (Kandahar)" which would give away your identity. I actually did not see your location until a couple of minutes ago. I won't do my typical slam on you such as "then what is your reason for the lenient punishment of this TI versus the harsh punishment for the heterosexual TIs?" or "I forgot you still believe in the AF judicial system". I know it must really get under your skin when I make comments about how messed up the AF is in general and you agree with me but your position simple does not allow to speak your mind. It is OK, you can finally speak your mind once you retire and are no longer controlled by the puppet strings of BigBlue since there won't be any civilian jobs AF for you to politic into.

CrustySMSgt
04-25-2013, 10:04 AM
I like how you reply to my comments but do not have any counter points to make. I believe you actually agree with my on a lot of my comments but you can't publically reply due to your location being "Air, Space, and Cyberspace (Kandahar)" which would give away your identity. I actually did not see your location until a couple of minutes ago. I won't do my typical slam on you such as "then what is your reason for the lenient punishment of this TI versus the harsh punishment for the heterosexual TIs?" or "I forgot you still believe in the AF judicial system". I know it must really get under your skin when I make comments about how messed up the AF is in general and you agree with me but your position simple does not allow to speak your mind. It is OK, you can finally speak your mind once you retire and are no longer controlled by the puppet strings of BigBlue since there won't be any civilian jobs AF for you to politic into.

Another great laugh... thanks, I needed that!

No, it wouldn't be hard to figure out who I am... but I could give a shit if you did. My counterpoint was you're full of shit as usual... this individual was convicted of maltreating trainees, not sexual misconduct or inappropriate relationships with trainees, which is what the majority of the other TIs were charged with, so your comparison is apples & oranges.

Get back with me when a gay TI gets convicted of a gay inappropriate relationship and we'll discuss how the sentences compare.

As far as my belief in the AF Judicial system, it would seem, from my observations, pretty jacked up. Of course none of us know all the facts and can only base our opinions on the events on what we read, but given some of the recent issues of late, it sure does seem like there is a systemic problem. While I only know of a couple of the actions resulting in Bass' conviction on THIRTY-ONE counts, I am appalled at how insignificant his sentance will be, as well as the fact he'll be continuing to serve. Looks like he'll have 1, maybe 2 shots at making TSgt again before he hits SSgt HYT... so I suspect he'll be forced out at 15 years. Not soon enough!

Chief_KO
04-25-2013, 12:15 PM
It was a good move on his part (probably advised by his defense council) to have a two officer/ six enlisted panel vice an all enlisted panel (jury). From what I've heard from the Os regarding military training at OTS, ROTC, or USAFA the things Bass did are in par with what the upper classmen (who are normally put in charge of the military training) do.
If memory serves, the military judge determines the sentence (within the guidelines). Just like with the IG case, the NAF CC can overturn the sentence the judge gave...highly doubt it though.
Wonder if anyone will plant a jar of Icy Hot on his desk when he gets out of prison?

tiredretiredE7
04-25-2013, 01:49 PM
Another great laugh... thanks, I needed that!

No, it wouldn't be hard to figure out who I am... but I could give a shit if you did. My counterpoint was you're full of shit as usual... this individual was convicted of maltreating trainees, not sexual misconduct or inappropriate relationships with trainees, which is what the majority of the other TIs were charged with, so your comparison is apples & oranges.

Get back with me when a gay TI gets convicted of a gay inappropriate relationship and we'll discuss how the sentences compare.

As far as my belief in the AF Judicial system, it would seem, from my observations, pretty jacked up. Of course none of us know all the facts and can only base our opinions on the events on what we read, but given some of the recent issues of late, it sure does seem like there is a systemic problem. While I only know of a couple of the actions resulting in Bass' conviction on THIRTY-ONE counts, I am appalled at how insignificant his sentance will be, as well as the fact he'll be continuing to serve. Looks like he'll have 1, maybe 2 shots at making TSgt again before he hits SSgt HYT... so I suspect he'll be forced out at 15 years. Not soon enough!

I was not talking about me finding out who you are, I was referring to your puppet string pullers reading your posts. He did get convicted of the unprofessional relationship with his male subordinate while being deployed so I was wrong in my post. He probably will get admin discharged once his prison time is over. By the way, most gay men enjoy their prison time so the 6 months will be like a vacation to him. However, there will only be one reason if he is kept on AD and does make it to retirement. Guess what that reason would be?

Tak
04-25-2013, 02:12 PM
I'm talking about finding out who he is.

20+Years
04-25-2013, 02:15 PM
Well I am still active duty and I don't think there should be a way on God's green earth that this scumbag should remain in our AF. I don't so much compare what he did to the other TI scandals (proven inappropriate relationships), but to the behavior in GITMO. I don't know if he was getting his jollies off or not, but he was humiliating the trainees for his own pleasure. I don't care what goes with it, but a bad conduct discharge should be included.

chevyman
04-27-2013, 04:55 PM
WTF is wrong with this dude?

Absinthe Anecdote
04-28-2013, 02:58 PM
Well I am still active duty and I don't think there should be a way on God's green earth that this scumbag should remain in our AF. I don't so much compare what he did to the other TI scandals (proven inappropriate relationships), but to the behavior in GITMO. I don't know if he was getting his jollies off or not, but he was humiliating the trainees for his own pleasure. I don't care what goes with it, but a bad conduct discharge should be included.

Have we confirmed that this guy will not be discharged after he does his six months in jail?

I know the recent stories make no mention of a discharge but that doesn’t mean that he’ll ever return to normal duty.

I’d be happy if he gets a general discharge.

CrustySMSgt
04-28-2013, 03:06 PM
Have we confirmed that this guy will not be discharged after he does his six months in jail?

I know the recent stories make no mention of a discharge but that doesn’t mean that he’ll ever return to normal duty.

I’d be happy if he gets a general discharge.

They'll "consider admin discharge after his sentence" so who knows.

Rainmaker
05-03-2013, 03:19 PM
Rainmaker used to use a little Seabreeze astringent before a night on the town with ladies in Panama. Make that bad boy stand up and crow like a rooster.

Golther
05-04-2013, 09:39 PM
Holy shit. SSgt Bass back in the day was getting his final training on my flight. I knew him as much an any trainee would know; however, I would have never guess he would do anything like that.