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technomage1
04-16-2013, 02:24 AM
I'm sure most people have read the news by now. 2 dead and many others injured.

I'm a runner. I'm not a very good one, or a very fast one, but I do enjoy the sport. I though I might give the non runners out there an idea of what Boston means to us. Boston is arguably the pinnacle of marathon running worldwide, and is certainly the top race in the US. Due to high demand, it have to qualify to run Boston, and if you do believe me that earns you bragging rights. This year, 27k runners qualified and started the event, to give you an idea of numbers. Many of them sacrificed long hours of training, and many were raising money for charities. I don't think you'll ever find a more dedicated and open group of people than long distance runners. Competitive, heck yeah. But even if you're struggling in the back of the field (me) you'll get a kind word and applause when you cross the finish.

Ill never qualify,for boston anywhere but in my dreams, but that doesn't stop me from rooting for those that do, including 2 members of my run club (who, after anxious hours, reported in safe).

And its not just the runners. It takes organizers months of hard work and preparation for an event of this size. From fielding entries, to coordinating volunteers and working with the city to block off the route, a lot of people work hard - without being paid, I might add, to pull this off. No other sport does that. Not with that many participants and not with voluneteers.

So it really, really pisses me off some cowards decided to target my sport. And you know what? I'm not going to let them win. I'm still going to race. I'm still going to enjoy my sport and my community of fellow runners.

Give me liberty or give me death stopped being a history lesson for me today.

giggawatt
04-16-2013, 09:15 AM
I'm sure most people have read the news by now. 2 dead and many others injured.

I'm a runner. I'm not a very good one, or a very fast one, but I do enjoy the sport. I though I might give the non runners out there an idea of what Boston means to us. Boston is arguably the pinnacle of marathon running worldwide, and is certainly the top race in the US. Due to high demand, it have to qualify to run Boston, and if you do believe me that earns you bragging rights. This year, 27k runners qualified and started the event, to give you an idea of numbers. Many of them sacrificed long hours of training, and many were raising money for charities. I don't think you'll ever find a more dedicated and open group of people than long distance runners. Competitive, heck yeah. But even if you're struggling in the back of the field (me) you'll get a kind word and applause when you cross the finish.

Ill never qualify,for boston anywhere but in my dreams, but that doesn't stop me from rooting for those that do, including 2 members of my run club (who, after anxious hours, reported in safe).

And its not just the runners. It takes organizers months of hard work and preparation for an event of this size. From fielding entries, to coordinating volunteers and working with the city to block off the route, a lot of people work hard - without being paid, I might add, to pull this off. No other sport does that. Not with that many participants and not with voluneteers.

So it really, really pisses me off some cowards decided to target my sport. And you know what? I'm not going to let them win. I'm still going to race. I'm still going to enjoy my sport and my community of fellow runners.

Give me liberty or give me death stopped being a history lesson for me today.

Sit down. If you think this way, you're going to be a loser. You're never going to make it because there is no never.

You've got to get up and say "I'm going to qualify for the Boston Marathon and I'll do whatever it takes. The amount of hours it takes, the this, the that, the visualization, looking at training footage, looking at motivational books, the reading, WHATEVER it takes. I will do." That is what I want to hear from you.

The hunger, you have to develop. You have to create a goal for yourself, a short term goal and a long term goal. You have to go after that goal. If you do not see it and you do not believe it, who else will?

The body is very important but the mind is even more important than the body. You have to visualize what the body must do to make it win because that's what then creates the will. The will that you need to run every day, the will that makes you go through the forced training sessions, the will that makes you go beyond the 10 miles when you can't take another step. It's the will that makes you go one more mile. It is all of this sort of mental aspect that motivates you and that makes the difference between you being in the gym full of joy and looking forward to taking that extra step and looking forward to running that extra mile and working past the pain barrier. That's all the mind. That's not the body. The body is very important but the mind is even more important than the body.

So you have to go to the track and feel like every step is getting you one step closer to your goal to make that vision that you have turn into reality.

To think that along the way you're not gonna fail then you're blind because there is no one that, no matter how succesful they are, has said that they have not had their failures along the way. The only way you can really know if you can run 26.2 miles is if you're willing to fail. If you're afraid of failure then you'll never grow. The people who go the furthest are the people that really don't care if they fail or if they make it. They're gonna take that risk because that's what you have to do.

technomage1
04-16-2013, 10:10 AM
Sit down. If you think this way, you're going to be a loser. You're never going to make it because there is no never.

You've got to get up and say "I'm going to qualify for the Boston Marathon and I'll do whatever it takes. The amount of hours it takes, the this, the that, the visualization, looking at training footage, looking at motivational books, the reading, WHATEVER it takes. I will do." That is what I want to hear from you.

The hunger, you have to develop. You have to create a goal for yourself, a short term goal and a long term goal. You have to go after that goal. If you do not see it and you do not believe it, who else will?

The body is very important but the mind is even more important than the body. You have to visualize what the body must do to make it win because that's what then creates the will. The will that you need to run every day, the will that makes you go through the forced training sessions, the will that makes you go beyond the 10 miles when you can't take another step. It's the will that makes you go one more mile. It is all of this sort of mental aspect that motivates you and that makes the difference between you being in the gym full of joy and looking forward to taking that extra step and looking forward to running that extra mile and working past the pain barrier. That's all the mind. That's not the body. The body is very important but the mind is even more important than the body.

So you have to go to the track and feel like every step is getting you one step closer to your goal to make that vision that you have turn into reality.

To think that along the way you're not gonna fail then you're blind because there is no one that, no matter how succesful they are, has said that they have not had their failures along the way. The only way you can really know if you can run 26.2 miles is if you're willing to fail. If you're afraid of failure then you'll never grow. The people who go the furthest are the people that really don't care if they fail or if they make it. They're gonna take that risk because that's what you have to do.

My entire post and that's what you pick up on? Thanks for the entirely unwanted and unasked for advice.

71Fish
04-16-2013, 12:25 PM
My entire post and that's what you pick up on? Thanks for the entirely unwanted and unasked for advice.

Yeah, no shit.

On topic, I'm surprised we haven't been hit in the US since 9/11. A major sporting event always seemed like a likely target. The difference with a marathon, is you have a large number of people hanging around (at the finish) but don't have to pass through security to get there. At other sports stadium there is security, even if it has grown relaxed over the years. We will now be back to more thorough checks.

JD2780
04-16-2013, 12:50 PM
Yeah, no shit.

On topic, I'm surprised we haven't been hit in the US since 9/11. A major sporting event always seemed like a likely target. The difference with a marathon, is you have a large number of people hanging around (at the finish) but don't have to pass through security to get there. At other sports stadium there is security, even if it has grown relaxed over the years. We will now be back to more thorough checks.

They have had documentaries about what goes into the super bowl. There is a much that goes into the Boston Marathon as well, but not nearly as much obviously.

As for the gripe with the the post. Techno, you only mentioned the actual bombing in the end off your post. So he based his response off off the majority of your post. Take a deep breath dude.

TVANSCOT
04-16-2013, 01:02 PM
Yeah, no shit.

On topic, I'm surprised we haven't been hit in the US since 9/11. A major sporting event always seemed like a likely target. The difference with a marathon, is you have a large number of people hanging around (at the finish) but don't have to pass through security to get there. At other sports stadium there is security, even if it has grown relaxed over the years. We will now be back to more thorough checks.

Agreed... I am amazed every year that passes by that more events are not hit. It really is amazing, and as bad is it was in Boston, you can just imagine that it could have been much much worse.

Tak
04-16-2013, 01:18 PM
No need to be amazed, just thank Bush.

BOSS302
04-16-2013, 03:36 PM
My entire post and that's what you pick up on? Thanks for the entirely unwanted and unasked for advice.

That is not a very good reply to someone who was just trying to talk good to you. How about you ease up a bit?

ConfusedAirman
04-16-2013, 03:52 PM
My entire post and that's what you pick up on? Thanks for the entirely unwanted and unasked for advice.

+1 (and some more to have enough characters)

Edited to add - Boss, don't worry. I've seen enough of technomage1's posts to know he DID ease up.

Robert F. Dorr
04-16-2013, 05:04 PM
Yeah, no shit.

On topic, I'm surprised we haven't been hit in the US since 9/11. A major sporting event always seemed like a likely target. The difference with a marathon, is you have a large number of people hanging around (at the finish) but don't have to pass through security to get there. At other sports stadium there is security, even if it has grown relaxed over the years. We will now be back to more thorough checks.

Coming to a conclusion about who did it?

71Fish
04-16-2013, 05:37 PM
Coming to a conclusion about who did it?

Unless I've missed a report, there hasn't been enough info yet to come to a conclusion.

Tak
04-16-2013, 05:58 PM
Seriously, time to toughen bomb control laws and enforce the
National bomb registry.

SomeRandomGuy
04-16-2013, 05:59 PM
Seriously, time to toughen bomb control laws and enforce the
National bomb registry.

Actually a good guy with a bomb is the only way to stop a bad guy with a bomb. If only more people at the finish line had bombs we could have stopped this.

Tak
04-16-2013, 05:59 PM
Actually a good guy with a bomb is the only way to stop a bad guy with a bomb. If only more people at the finish line had bombs we could have stopped this.

No shit, I don't go anywhere without my ied.

Tak
04-16-2013, 06:00 PM
Agreed... I am amazed every year that passes by that more events are not hit. It really is amazing, and as bad is it was in Boston, you can just imagine that it could have been much much worse.

There have been many attempts stopped stateside since 9/11, but because
No body count, media could care less.

TJMAC77SP
04-16-2013, 06:00 PM
Coming to a conclusion about who did it?

Bob, I don't understand your question. I understand the words but not the relevance. I didn't see anything in 71Fish's post that would lead the reader to believe he as drawing a conclusion as to guilty parties.

You do agree there is/are guilty party/parties right?

Tak
04-16-2013, 06:00 PM
Actually a good guy with a bomb is the only way to stop a bad guy with a bomb. If only more people at the finish line had bombs we could have stopped this.

No shit, I don't go anywhere without my ied.

(Note for serious people, this is a joke on
Gun control correlation)

Pullinteeth
04-16-2013, 06:42 PM
Bob, I don't understand your question. I understand the words but not the relevance. I didn't see anything in 71Fish's post that would lead the reader to believe he as drawing a conclusion as to guilty parties.

You do agree there is/are guilty party/parties right?

I think he is confessing....

technomage1
04-16-2013, 08:32 PM
They have had documentaries about what goes into the super bowl. There is a much that goes into the Boston Marathon as well, but not nearly as much obviously.

As for the gripe with the the post. Techno, you only mentioned the actual bombing in the end off your post. So he based his response off off the majority of your post. Take a deep breath dude.

Aside from the post title and first sentance, you mean? Trust me, I DID take a deep breath. My first response would have probably blown up people's computers. There is a time and place for advice. This wasn't it, and the arrogance of assuming someone can run a 3:15 hour marathon to qualify if they only believe in themselves is rubbish. Not everyone can do that, no matter how much hard work and effort they put in. I'm realistic about my ability as a runner, just as I'm realistic about the probabilty of me being picked as a starting quarterback in the NFL (it ain't gonna happen).

And yes, if anyone asks, I can run 26.2 miles, though I tend to prefer 13.1s. I just can't do it anywhere near 3:15.

garhkal
04-16-2013, 08:36 PM
Yeah, no shit.

On topic, I'm surprised we haven't been hit in the US since 9/11. A major sporting event always seemed like a likely target. The difference with a marathon, is you have a large number of people hanging around (at the finish) but don't have to pass through security to get there. At other sports stadium there is security, even if it has grown relaxed over the years. We will now be back to more thorough checks.

Same here.. With all the sporting events, large scale charity runs (such as the susan b komen for the cure), and marathons, i have been dreading the day we hear of an attack ON those events as they are mass casualty/low risk/soft target wrote all over them.. Now one HAS been hit, it makes me wonder if the terrorists are going to be enbolden to strike at another one.


Agreed... I am amazed every year that passes by that more events are not hit. It really is amazing, and as bad is it was in Boston, you can just imagine that it could have been much much worse.

True.. Imagine if it had been right at the start... say a suicide bomber in the mix with it in his camel back/backpack.. rather than hidden in what looked like a building near the end.


There have been many attempts stopped stateside since 9/11, but because
No body count, media could care less.

More likely it was cause the media were never even told about it, even afterwards..

Tak
04-16-2013, 08:59 PM
Same here.. With all the sporting events, large scale charity runs (such as the susan b komen for the cure), and marathons, i have been dreading the day we hear of an attack ON those events as they are mass casualty/low risk/soft target wrote all over them.. Now one HAS been hit, it makes me wonder if the terrorists are going to be enbolden to strike at another one.



True.. Imagine if it had been right at the start... say a suicide bomber in the mix with it in his camel back/backpack.. rather than hidden in what looked like a building near the end.



More likely it was cause the media were never even told about it, even afterwards..

No that's not it

BRUWIN
04-16-2013, 09:32 PM
Coming to a conclusion about who did it?

Well...in the last 40 years or so almost all of these attacks seem to be the work of folks of Middle Eastern descent than I will be one of the first to go out on a limb and suggest they are high on the list of suspects. And none of the politically correct anti-racial profiling rhetoric will stop me from thinking it. If you want to put a bet on this Bob we can. I'm not much of a gambler but I know the odds are stacked well in my favor.

garhkal
04-17-2013, 04:56 AM
What of the potential it was home grown nutjobs.. similar to the Texas/Colorado da shootings and the recent riacin letter sent to MS rep Wicker

WillsPowers
04-17-2013, 05:10 AM
I thought Hussein Obama said the lost war on terror was being concluded. I thought Homeland Insecurity said we were safe and that success was measured by the absence of any attacks on the homeland. If this was done by the religion of pieces then that immigration amnesty bill and the gun confiscation bill in Congress are TOAST.

giggawatt
04-17-2013, 06:49 AM
I apologize for my insensitive, positive response. I guess jokes about banning bombs and bomb/gun control are way more appropriate.

VCO
04-17-2013, 10:40 AM
We need some better laws controlling pressure cookers. This is getting ridiculous.

sandsjames
04-17-2013, 03:56 PM
Dammit dammit dammit. Home Depot now has a registry for nail puchases. My nail gun can no longer legally hold more than 5 at a time. Makes shingling my roof a pain in the ass.

giggawatt
04-17-2013, 05:43 PM
That's weird because I tried to buy a pressure cooker and they did a back ground check and now I have to wait a week to pick it up.

BULLITT
04-17-2013, 06:22 PM
Suspect identified...this is gonna get interesting!

Tak
04-17-2013, 07:16 PM
they may have made an arrest in the boston bombing, now if they can check into benghazi

Pullinteeth
04-17-2013, 08:03 PM
These are not the droids you're looking for....

Tak
04-17-2013, 08:08 PM
These are not the droids you're looking for....

Shitty media strike again!

garhkal
04-18-2013, 03:13 AM
Suspect identified...this is gonna get interesting!

Heard about that while watching West ham and Man united (soccer) and that the leak was unfounded.. Hope the hell the leaker is smacked for this..

MACHINE666
04-18-2013, 05:06 PM
Hmm....4 pages and no talk of a possible "False Flag" operation??

Then let me start by adding this conspiracy theory....! :D

sandsjames
04-18-2013, 05:10 PM
Heard about that while watching West ham and Man united (soccer) and that the leak was unfounded.. Hope the hell the leaker is smacked for this..

Run away season this year. Too bad they had to mess up the FA Cup.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-18-2013, 05:29 PM
Hmm....4 pages and no talk of a possible "False Flag" operation??

Then let me start by adding this conspiracy theory....! :D

You’ll find plenty of that crap over at the Alex Jones website.

One of his “reporters” asked if was a false flag operation at yesterday’s FBI press briefing and they basically ignored him, like they should have.

ConfusedAirman
04-18-2013, 06:37 PM
You’ll find plenty of that crap over at the Alex Jones website.

One of his “reporters” asked if was a false flag operation at yesterday’s FBI press briefing and they basically ignored him, like they should have.

Alex Jones will spin it to say that by ignoring the question they confirmed the "truth".

Banned
04-18-2013, 08:06 PM
Well...in the last 40 years or so almost all of these attacks seem to be the work of folks of Middle Eastern descent than I will be one of the first to go out on a limb and suggest they are high on the list of suspects. And none of the politically correct anti-racial profiling rhetoric will stop me from thinking it. If you want to put a bet on this Bob we can. I'm not much of a gambler but I know the odds are stacked well in my favor.

"Almost all of these attacks"? Really? So the Unabomber, Oklahoma City Bombers, DC snipers, Alpha 66, and Army of God are of Middle Eastern decent? You sure about that?

BOSS302
04-18-2013, 11:55 PM
"Almost all of these attacks"? Really? So the Unabomber, Oklahoma City Bombers, DC snipers, Alpha 66, and Army of God are of Middle Eastern decent? You sure about that?

Looks like the GS-11 Civilian Airman hooked him a biggun'. The bait wasn't even really that strong...

71Fish
04-19-2013, 12:39 AM
Looks like the GS-11 Civilian Airman hooked him a biggun'. The bait wasn't even really that strong...

The bait doesn't always need to be that strong. Just wiggle it in front of his face a little bit.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 12:51 AM
"Almost all of these attacks"? Really? So the Unabomber, Oklahoma City Bombers, DC snipers, Alpha 66, and Army of God are of Middle Eastern decent? You sure about that?

Glad to see your immediate defense of people of "Middle Eastern decent". What is it that compels you to feel the need to be the defender of non-whites?

CrustySMSgt
04-19-2013, 10:00 AM
HA, they gone one of these mo-fos! Hope they send the other one to his maker (whoever that is) soon!

technomage1
04-19-2013, 11:33 AM
HA, they gone one of these mo-fos! Hope they send the other one to his maker (whoever that is) soon!

I understand how you feel, believe me, but we need to know if there are any more of these loonies out there. Get the intel, then blow his legs off and let him bleed out.

BRUWIN
04-19-2013, 12:09 PM
"Almost all of these attacks"? Really? So the Unabomber, Oklahoma City Bombers, DC snipers, Alpha 66, and Army of God are of Middle Eastern decent? You sure about that?

I considered those...that's why I said "almost." I really don't need you to point out the obvious to me. They are a drop in the bucket compared to the attacks we've been dealt from the Middle East both in the US and overseas.

KellyinAvon
04-19-2013, 12:11 PM
Two brothers from Chechnya. Ask the Russians about Chechnya.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-09-11-russia-rebels_x.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/oct/24/russia.chechnya

KellyinAvon
04-19-2013, 12:17 PM
I considered those...that's why I said "almost." I really don't need you to point out the obvious to me. They are a drop in the bucket compared to the attacks we've been dealt from the Middle East both in the US and overseas.

JB is looking for Chechnya on Google Maps even as we type.

BRUWIN
04-19-2013, 12:31 PM
JB is looking for Chechnya on Google Maps even as we type.

I don't know...I would think he probably has rebel friends he visits there.

Banned
04-19-2013, 01:08 PM
Glad to see your immediate defense of people of "Middle Eastern decent". What is it that compels you to feel the need to be the defender of non-whites?

Because who else will side with them? If we let the Religious Right railroad the Muslims, its only a matter of time before they railroad the atheists too.


I considered those...that's why I said "almost." I really don't need you to point out the obvious to me. They are a drop in the bucket compared to the attacks we've been dealt from the Middle East both in the US and overseas.

I'll have to admit to jumping on this grenade... well played. Very well played.


JB is looking for Chechnya on Google Maps even as we type.

Are you saying I'm not properly educated? I'll have you know I went to a private Christian Conservative school for 12 years. I'm not a product of those evil liberal homosexual Marxist Muslim public schools.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 01:17 PM
Because who else will side with them? If we let the Religious Right railroad the Muslims, its only a matter of time before they railroad the atheists too. You're like a superhero. "Apologist Man...Defender of the Brown Skin".

Banned
04-19-2013, 01:20 PM
You're like a superhero. "Apologist Man...Defender of the Brown Skin".

The old American ideal used to be defending the underdog. Very sad that this is no longer the case.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-19-2013, 01:31 PM
The old American ideal used to be defending the underdog. Very sad that this is no longer the case.

Are you suggesting that non-white people are dogs who are less capable than white people?

That is a rather jacked up way of thinking if you ask me.

Banned
04-19-2013, 01:39 PM
Are you suggesting that non-white people are dogs who are less capable than white people?

That is a rather jacked up way of thinking if you ask me.

Sarcasm aside, I think even you know that the country is becoming evil and twisted. In previous eras - the use of force to crush a weaker group - a slave revolt, a coal miner strike, protesting veterans... this generally provoked public outcry and reform.

Nowadays we cheer at photos of protesters being beaten down by heavily armored police, and entertain ourselves with movies glorifying the empire - such as "Act of Valor" and "Zero Dark Thirty".

Absinthe Anecdote
04-19-2013, 01:54 PM
Sarcasm aside, I think even you know that the country is becoming evil and twisted. In previous eras - the use of force to crush a weaker group - a slave revolt, a coal miner strike, protesting veterans... this generally provoked public outcry and reform.

Nowadays we cheer at photos of protesters being beaten down by heavily armored police, and entertain ourselves with movies glorifying the empire - such as "Act of Valor" and "Zero Dark Thirty".

It is?

Oh my!

I’d better go hide in the basement and use pots and pans for a shield and a helmet!

JD2780
04-19-2013, 01:54 PM
Sarcasm aside, I think even you know that the country is becoming evil and twisted. In previous eras - the use of force to crush a weaker group - a slave revolt, a coal miner strike, protesting veterans... this generally provoked public outcry and reform.

Nowadays we cheer at photos of protesters being beaten down by heavily armored police, and entertain ourselves with movies glorifying the empire - such as "Act of Valor" and "Zero Dark Thirty".


Umm check out some of the movies from the 50s there homie. We've had war movies for decades now.

Tak
04-19-2013, 01:54 PM
Police sealed off densely populated portions the Boston metro area early Friday after a violent night of chasing the Boston Marathon terror suspects left one of the men and a police officer dead.

Police ordered businesses in the suburb of Watertown and nearby communities to stay closed and told residents to stay inside and answer the door for no one but authorities. Boston authorities advised the same. The city's subway, bus and Amtrak train systems have been shut down. Taxi service across the city was suspended. Every Boston area school is closed.

"It's jarring," said CNN Belief blog writer Danielle Tumminio, who lives in Watertown.

Boston's public transit authority sent city buses to Watertown to evacuate residents while bomb experts combed the surroundings for possible explosives.

Police shot one of the men dead after a wild car chase through Watertown in which authorities say they hurled explosives at pursuing officers.

Police believe the men are the same ones pictured in images released Thursday by the FBI as suspects in the marathon bombing that killed three people Monday.

The men are shown in the images walking together near the marathon finish line.

Several sources told CNN that the dead suspect has been identified as Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26. The one still being sought is Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, age 19.

The first suspect, the one believed killed by police, appears in the images wearing a dark hat, sunglasses and a backpack. The second suspect, wearing a white cap, is the one who remains at large, police said.

Police warned Watertown residents to lock their homes and stay away from their windows and doors.

JD2780
04-19-2013, 01:58 PM
I guess this is just more of the police brutality joe describes. I guess we should be chasing this guy in small sedans with pellet guns.

Banned
04-19-2013, 02:01 PM
Umm check out some of the movies from the 50s there homie. We've had war movies for decades now.

War movies that glorified terrorism and torture? You're absolutely right that there have always been appalling elements in our culture - as in most or all cultures. But I personally think this sadism we're seeing today is fairly new.


It is?

Oh my!

I’d better go hide in the basement and use pots and pans for a shield and a helmet!

Your nonchalant attitude towards the terror in mayhem we're causing overseas is a microcosm for everything that's wrong with America today.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 02:04 PM
Terrorism and torture. Yup we are the evil empire. Go ahead and denounce your citizenship and move then.

He'd never do that. He knows that even though he defends the people who attack us that if he was to speak, even for a minute, in those countries like he does here, they wouldn't think twice about killing him. At best they'd put him in prison and have their way with him. But we're the bad guys.

JD2780
04-19-2013, 02:04 PM
War movies that glorified terrorism and torture? You're absolutely right that there have always been appalling elements in our culture - as in most or all cultures. But I personally think this sadism we're seeing today is fairly new.



Your nonchalant attitude towards the terror in mayhem we're causing overseas is a microcosm for everything that's wrong with America today.

Terrorism and torture. Yup we are the evil empire. Go ahead and denounce your citizenship and move then.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 02:04 PM
Your nonchalant attitude towards the terror in mayhem we're causing overseas is a microcosm for everything that's wrong with America today.

Yes, the terror we're causing. Especially with these Chechnya born Muslims, one who was 9 years old when they moved here. We caused that how? Educating them? Giving them scholarships? Maybe if we quit allowing people into the country to better their lives we will stop "causing" this sort of thing.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-19-2013, 02:05 PM
Because who else will side with them? If we let the Religious Right railroad the Muslims, its only a matter of time before they railroad the atheists too.

I am amazed that your disdain for the “religious right” is so great that it blinds you to the oppression of Islam.

I am also astounded that your “America is bad” programming allows your thought process to make comparisons of bombing a marathon to striking coal miners .

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 02:07 PM
I am amazed that your disdain for the “religious right” is so great that it blinds you to the oppression of Islam.

I am also astounded that your “America is bad” programming allows your thought process to make comparisons of bombing a marathon to striking coal miners .

A lot of his rhetoric reminds me of the rhetoric you'd hear inside a mosque attempting to radicalize members.

Banned
04-19-2013, 02:11 PM
Terrorism and torture. Yup we are the evil empire. Go ahead and denounce your citizenship and move then.

Great... now we have red blooded 'muricans like yourself telling everyone who disagrees with national policy to leave the country. Good to know which side you'll be on when shit hits the fan.


Yes, the terror we're causing. Especially with these Chechnya born Muslims, one who was 9 years old when they moved here. We caused that how? Educating them? Giving them scholarships? Maybe if we quit allowing people into the country to better their lives we will stop "causing" this sort of thing.

No, to my knowledge, not Chechnya.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 02:14 PM
Great... now we have red blooded 'muricans like yourself telling everyone who disagrees with national policy to leave the country. Good to know which side you'll be on when shit hits the fan. You don't just disagree with American policy. You justify the actions of others based on the policies of the U.S. That's the issue.




No, to my knowledge, not Chechnya.Not Chechnya what? I don't understand the response.

JD2780
04-19-2013, 02:15 PM
Great... now we have red blooded 'muricans like yourself telling everyone who disagrees with national policy to leave the country. Good to know which side you'll be on when shit hits the fan.



No, to my knowledge, not Chechnya.

Yea I'll be on the side protecting my religious freedoms and other rights.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-19-2013, 02:31 PM
You don't just disagree with American policy. You justify the actions of others based on the policies of the U.S. That's the issue.



Not Chechnya what? I don't understand the response.

That might be his subtle way of saying they are from the Dagestan Oblast of Russia and are of Chechen descent.

imported_CLSE
04-19-2013, 02:54 PM
Sarcasm aside, I think even you know that the country is becoming evil and twisted. In previous eras - the use of force to crush a weaker group - a slave revolt, a coal miner strike, protesting veterans... this generally provoked public outcry and reform.

Nowadays we cheer at photos of protesters being beaten down by heavily armored police, and entertain ourselves with movies glorifying the empire - such as "Act of Valor" and "Zero Dark Thirty".


Who's "We", pale-face?

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 02:57 PM
At least Mexicans don't blow shit up when they come here.

Not true. Ate at one of their restaurants recently. Blew up my toilet.

Tak
04-19-2013, 02:58 PM
At least Mexicans don't blow shit up when they come here.

CYBERFX1024
04-19-2013, 02:58 PM
Dagestan is right beside Chechnya, and that whole region has been rife with insurgency for over 20 years now. Chechens are known to be extreme fighters, and everybody around the region knows about how die hard they are. They have been fighting in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 02:59 PM
At least Mexicans don't blow shit up when they come here.

Not true. Ate at one of their restaurants recently. Blew up my toilet.

Tak
04-19-2013, 03:01 PM
Not true. Ate at one of their restaurants recently. Blew up my toilet.

"Their" has been deemed racist.

Banned
04-19-2013, 03:02 PM
Who's "We", pale-face?

LOL


At least Mexicans don't blow shit up when they come here.

Well, most don't at least. Violent crime, drug/arms trade, and human trafficking over the border are still an issue.


A lot of his rhetoric reminds me of the rhetoric you'd hear inside a mosque attempting to radicalize members.

"We should mind our own business and let other countries control their own governments?"


I am amazed that your disdain for the “religious right” is so great that it blinds you to the oppression of Islam.

I am also astounded that your “America is bad” programming allows your thought process to make comparisons of bombing a marathon to striking coal miners .

I would love to see where I compared the Boston marathon bombing to striking coal miners. I compared the occupy movement to striking coal miners.

May I also remind you that I (and many other people) have been predicting another large attack against the United States by Muslims for quite some time now.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 03:04 PM
"Their" has been deemed racist.

Roger that. Ate at a restaurant owned and operated by Mexicans.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 03:04 PM
LOL




May I also remind you that I (and many other people) have been predicting another large attack against the United States by Muslims for quite some time now.

Wow, you're really going out on a limb with this one.

Just to jump on board, I'm predicting another large natural disaster in the future. I'm also going to predict another mass shooting. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the military will see more sexual assaults.

Tak
04-19-2013, 03:04 PM
So, is it safe for Obama to use the phrase terrorist yet

Banned
04-19-2013, 03:06 PM
You don't just disagree with American policy. You justify the actions of others based on the policies of the U.S. That's the issue.

Every action will have an equal and opposite reaction. It is extremely foolish to believe that committing extreme violence against other nations won't someday result in somebody committing equally extreme violence against us.


Not Chechnya what? I don't understand the response.

I'm not entirely sure why Chechens would have a bone to pick with us. Me personally, I was expecting the perpetrators to either be some disgruntled American right-wingers, or Middle Eastern Muslim radicals. I guess I was half right - these guys were probably Muslim, just not from the region I expected.


Wow, you're really going out on a limb with this one.

Just to jump on board, I'm predicting another large natural disaster in the future. I'm also going to predict another mass shooting. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the military will see more sexual assaults.

I'm not going out on a limb. Its blindingly obvious that killing thousands of Muslims is going to create enemies, and eventually one of those enemies will be smart and dedicated enough to retaliate against us on our own soil.

Tak
04-19-2013, 03:17 PM
No need for profiling, we had video. Send up the drone army.

Tak
04-19-2013, 03:18 PM
Thank god for water boarding.

JD2780
04-19-2013, 03:35 PM
Every action will have an equal and opposite reaction. It is extremely foolish to believe that committing extreme violence against other nations won't someday result in somebody committing equally extreme violence against us.



I'm not entirely sure why Chechens would have a bone to pick with us. Me personally, I was expecting the perpetrators to either be some disgruntled American right-wingers, or Middle Eastern Muslim radicals. I guess I was half right - these guys were probably Muslim, just not from the region I expected.



I'm not going out on a limb. Its blindingly obvious that killing thousands of Muslims is going to create enemies, and eventually one of those enemies will be smart and dedicated enough to retaliate against us on our own soil.

I think its a liberal left wing extremist!!!

Tak
04-19-2013, 03:38 PM
So much for allies.

Banned
04-19-2013, 04:16 PM
I think its a liberal left wing extremist!!!

It did cross my mind, but I found it unlikely because we have a Democrat as president, so not necessarily a lot of obvious political motivation - and besides - liberals for the most part love physical fitness. If a liberal was going to be a terrorist, he would be more likely to blow up a fast food restaurant, not a marathon. :D

Tak
04-19-2013, 04:17 PM
It did cross my mind, but I found it unlikely because we have a Democrat as president, so not necessarily a lot of obvious political motivation - and besides - liberals for the most part love physical fitness. If a liberal was going to be a terrorist, he would be more likely to blow up a fast food restaurant, not a marathon. :D

A fast food Mexican restaurant?

Tak
04-19-2013, 04:27 PM
"I don't have a single American friend, I don't understand them," the older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was killed in a shootout with police hours after the pair was identified as suspects, told a photographer in 2009.

What drove him and his brother, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, who lived with him in Cambridge, Mass., to perpetrate the deadly attack which killed three people and injured 176 others is not clear. They are believed to be Muslim and to have had military training overseas

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 04:31 PM
Every action will have an equal and opposite reaction. It is extremely foolish to believe that committing extreme violence against other nations won't someday result in somebody committing equally extreme violence against us. This is true. However, that doesn't mean that I have to defend the actions of the other coutries.


I'm not entirely sure why Chechens would have a bone to pick with us. Me personally, I was expecting the perpetrators to either be some disgruntled American right-wingers, or Middle Eastern Muslim radicals. I guess I was half right - these guys were probably Muslim, just not from the region I expected. There are several Chechnyan fighters fighting with the Taliban in Afghanstan. And yes, these guys were definitely Muslim. Well, Muslim extremists anyway.




I'm not going out on a limb. Its blindingly obvious that killing thousands of Muslims is going to create enemies, and eventually one of those enemies will be smart and dedicated enough to retaliate against us on our own soil. I don't know if I'd call them smart. Unless you think it's smart to go on a suicide mission for religious reasons, which I know you don't.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 04:34 PM
It did cross my mind, but I found it unlikely because we have a Democrat as president, so not necessarily a lot of obvious political motivation - and besides - liberals for the most part love physical fitness. If a liberal was going to be a terrorist, he would be more likely to blow up a fast food restaurant, not a marathon. :D

That's some funny shit. Liberals love physical fitness. I don't know if it's true or not, just not a generalization I'd ever heard.

edit: Old people love soup!

Pullinteeth
04-19-2013, 05:49 PM
HA, they gone one of these mo-fos! Hope they send the other one to his maker (whoever that is) soon!

They shot him then his brother ran over him to get away...


It did cross my mind, but I found it unlikely because we have a Democrat as president, so not necessarily a lot of obvious political motivation - and besides - liberals for the most part love physical fitness. If a liberal was going to be a terrorist, he would be more likely to blow up a fast food restaurant, not a marathon. :D

Not necessarily true... Just like when a Republican is in the White House, there are always elements of the right or left that think the person in the oval office isn't right/left ENOUGH and get pretty pissed about it... The Boston Marathon is an athletic event run by the Boston Athletic Association with considerable corporate sponsorship that is fairly exclusive (must meet qulifying times) and they do charge entry fees so while unlikely, it is possible that an extreme left-leaning individual would target such an event as an elitist event symptomatic of the evils of capitalism...

crwchf16
04-19-2013, 08:34 PM
"I don't have a single American friend, I don't understand them," the older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was killed in a shootout with police hours after the pair was identified as suspects, told a photographer in 2009.

What drove him and his brother, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, who lived with him in Cambridge, Mass., to perpetrate the deadly attack which killed three people and injured 176 others is not clear. They are believed to be Muslim and to have had military training overseas

:focus Thanks for posting that Tak. Based on what we've heard in the news so far (if you can trust it), the older brother apparently had explosives on him when he was shot so there is little doubt this scumbag was guilty. On the other hand I do sincerely hope that the younger one is taken alive so we can get some answers about this whole nightmare. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about this kid just doesn't fit with what we know so far.

Tak
04-19-2013, 08:43 PM
:focus Thanks for posting that Tak. Based on what we've heard in the news so far (if you can trust it), the older brother apparently had explosives on him when he was shot so there is little doubt this scumbag was guilty. On the other hand I do sincerely hope that the younger one is taken alive so we can get some answers about this whole nightmare. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about this kid just doesn't fit with what we know so far.

I posted older bros photo on my thread, graphic justice.
Update, younger brother drove over him to get away

garhkal
04-19-2013, 10:27 PM
I considered those...that's why I said "almost." I really don't need you to point out the obvious to me. They are a drop in the bucket compared to the attacks we've been dealt from the Middle East both in the US and overseas.

And according to all news outlets, both the dumb f***s involved have been radicalized by islam, yet again the muslim faith rears its ugly head.


Yes, the terror we're causing. Especially with these Chechnya born Muslims, one who was 9 years old when they moved here. We caused that how? Educating them? Giving them scholarships? Maybe if we quit allowing people into the country to better their lives we will stop "causing" this sort of thing.

When i heard on the news that both of these buttheads came here cause their PARENTS got asylum, i was dumbfounded.. Now i can see it if they came WITH the parents at the time they claimed asylum, but 2+ years later.> Heck no. And if the country that they claimed asylum from was so bad they had to flee, how is it both dad and the eldest son went back for visits??


Well, most don't at least. Violent crime, drug/arms trade, and human trafficking over the border are still an issue.

Along with all those south of the border who come here, drive unlicensed/insured etc and kill US citizens, then flee before the trial (or while on parole), or who get off cause they 'don't understand english'..



I'm not going out on a limb. Its blindingly obvious that killing thousands of Muslims is going to create enemies, and eventually one of those enemies will be smart and dedicated enough to retaliate against us on our own soil.

So what should we be doing joe? Not going to war against those who would kill us?

Tak
04-19-2013, 10:38 PM
I bet when they got asylum, they filled out forms saying they loved America
And even receited airman creed from memory.

VCO
04-20-2013, 01:13 AM
Because who else will side with them? If we let the Religious Right railroad the Muslims, its only a matter of time before they railroad the atheists too.

Islam is now estimated to be the largest religion in the world and growing. Christianity is in decline. As an atheist, the "religious right" may make you feel insecure and question your faith in nothing. Muslims will hang you and be done.

KellyinAvon
04-20-2013, 01:45 AM
Got him!!!!!

Greg
04-20-2013, 01:56 AM
Got him!!!!!

Yep, watching CNN right now.

Tak
04-20-2013, 01:57 AM
Must be some terrorist need some killin.
- Maj P

Banned
04-20-2013, 02:05 AM
And according to all news outlets, both the dumb f***s involved have been radicalized by islam, yet again the muslim faith rears its ugly head.

Shouldn't come as a surprise. We turned Islam into a weapon to fight the Communists. Unfortunately, it didn't occur to us that this weapon could turn against us further down the road.



When i heard on the news that both of these buttheads came here cause their PARENTS got asylum, i was dumbfounded.. Now i can see it if they came WITH the parents at the time they claimed asylum, but 2+ years later.> Heck no. And if the country that they claimed asylum from was so bad they had to flee, how is it both dad and the eldest son went back for visits??

I'm not a fan of fucking over millions of people because of two bad apples.



Along with all those south of the border who come here, drive unlicensed/insured etc and kill US citizens, then flee before the trial (or while on parole), or who get off cause they 'don't understand english'..

Paranoia. No one has gotten off for not speaking English. Yes, sometimes immigrants get away with crimes... just like criminals who were born here.


So what should we be doing joe? Not going to war against those who would kill us?

We shouldn't kill hundreds of thousands off people who were totally uninvolved in an attack against us.


That's some funny shit. Liberals love physical fitness. I don't know if it's true or not, just not a generalization I'd ever heard.

edit: Old people love soup!

Just saying. Hanging out in the Carolinas, Texas, and Kentucky... fat people everywhere. Hang out in San Francisco - almost everyone's tight and skinny. ;)


Islam is now estimated to be the largest religion in the world and growing. Christianity is in decline. As an atheist, the "religious right" may make you feel insecure and question your faith in nothing. Muslims will hang you and be done.

I used to believe in the imaginary sky man... I was indoctrinated from birth to believe in him... I abandoned him when I started thinking for myself, and realized that even if a god did exist - he's a pompous selfish douchebag, not deserving of any respect from us.

As for the Muslims - they can run their countries any way they like. I couldn't care less.

JD2780
04-20-2013, 02:54 AM
Hey JB no Miranda rights were read to them. Are you going to cry about this?

Tak
04-20-2013, 02:57 AM
Waterboard hiz azz

JD2780
04-20-2013, 03:02 AM
Waterboard hiz azz

98 buckets of water on you 98 buckets of water, you told me a lie this one is now dry 98 buckets of water on you!!!

KellyinAvon
04-20-2013, 03:10 AM
He's nothing but a low-down, double-dealing, backstabbing, larcenous perverted worm! Hanging's too good for him. Burning's too good for him! He should be torn into little bitsy pieces and buried alive! Hanover Fist, Heavy Metal (1981)

Tak
04-20-2013, 03:13 AM
Mess with the bull, you get the horns and by horns I mean
Dead and wounded.

Tak
04-20-2013, 04:40 AM
Wtf...mom in Canada, dad in Russia...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/19/heres-what-we-know-so-far-about-the-alleged-boston-bomber-brothers/

Tak
04-20-2013, 04:59 AM
Quit breaking the law asshole!!!!!!!!!!
- J. Carey

Tak
04-20-2013, 05:14 AM
No Miranda rights for you

FLAPS
04-20-2013, 12:31 PM
When is the liberal media going to admit that ISLAM was the primary motive for these attacks?

Banned
04-20-2013, 12:41 PM
When is the liberal media going to admit that ISLAM was the primary motive for these attacks?

About the same time the "liberal media" points out there's no point in having hundreds of bases across the world, and bombing people in multiple countries.

Banned
04-20-2013, 01:14 PM
Watched a video on Fox of the mother - saying she wants actual proof - not bullshit blurry photos of them walking and standing around, and an incomprehensible video of gunfire. Actual proof that they planted the bombs.

Actually sounds pretty reasonable to me.

sandsjames
04-20-2013, 01:21 PM
Watched a video on Fox of the mother - saying she wants actual proof - not bullshit blurry photos of them walking and standing around, and an incomprehensible video of gunfire. Actual proof that they planted the bombs.

Actually sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Yeah, because throwing explosives out of a car at the cops isn't proof of anything. But you are right. Proof is necessary as part of the legal system. From what I understand, they have video of one of the boys setting the bag down by the trash can.

Banned
04-20-2013, 01:29 PM
Yeah, because throwing explosives out of a car at the cops isn't proof of anything.

If that's the case, then there will probably be some video of it.



But you are right. Proof is necessary as part of the legal system. From what I understand, they have video of one of the boys setting the bag down by the trash can.

Then why was his Miranda Rights waived? I was okay with this right up to that point. Yet another bad precedent set in the "war on terror".

Tak
04-20-2013, 01:48 PM
What proof do ya think would have been needed in Russia.

FLAPS
04-20-2013, 02:29 PM
What proof do ya think would have been needed in Russia.

Or china. Suspicion alone can earn you a bullet in the head.

Banned
04-20-2013, 05:10 PM
Yes because Russia and China are such outstanding role models. We should be just like them.

FLAPS
04-20-2013, 06:02 PM
Yes because Russia and China are such outstanding role models. We should be just like them.

Countries are not role models, people are. Look it up

Greg
04-20-2013, 06:15 PM
Countries are not role models, people are. Look it up

He only reads youtube videos.

garhkal
04-20-2013, 06:43 PM
Yeah, because throwing explosives out of a car at the cops isn't proof of anything. But you are right. Proof is necessary as part of the legal system. From what I understand, they have video of one of the boys setting the bag down by the trash can.

If that's the case, then there will probably be some video of it.

Which if it is the case, should be released DURING the trial, not before.

One thing i do have on my mind.. Recently we had a discussion about whether chanting USA USA, or being patriotic and singing the US nat anthem was racist (like at those schools).. but i notice not one site is claiming all the chants/flag waving/singing is anything BUT being patriotism at its finest here..

Banned
04-20-2013, 08:13 PM
Countries are not role models, people are. Look it up


He only reads youtube videos.

...what on earth are you talking about? I was talking about how disturbing it is to see "patriots" wanting us to be like China.


Which if it is the case, should be released DURING the trial, not before.

One thing i do have on my mind.. Recently we had a discussion about whether chanting USA USA, or being patriotic and singing the US nat anthem was racist (like at those schools).. but i notice not one site is claiming all the chants/flag waving/singing is anything BUT being patriotism at its finest here..

Yup, and I have mixed feelings about that. Of course its a good thing that the alleged perpetrator has been caught, but I've never been a fan of brainless flag waving patriotic bullshit. We should respond to a crisis with our brains, not feel good 'Murica ramblings.

Tak
04-20-2013, 09:21 PM
did someone say "swede"?!? www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4gAZKsL2CU

Tak
04-20-2013, 09:24 PM
Did someone say "Swede"?!?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4gAZKsL2CU

AJBIGJ
04-20-2013, 09:34 PM
Now that this issue has been seemingly brought to some sort of resolution, is anyone else sitting a little bit concerned for what the good idea fairies in DC are about to come up with to provide for our "security" from such actions?

Tak
04-20-2013, 09:40 PM
Is he an enemy combatant?

Tak
04-21-2013, 06:05 AM
"We find the pressure cooker embedded in the car down the street, so there's a major explosion during this gunfight (with) my officers -- six of my officers that I'm extremely proud of," Deveau said.

The brothers also allegedly threw other explosives at the officers. "They were lighting them and throwing them," Deveau said, adding they were "very rough devices."

Two exploded and two did not. Police later found a sixth explosive in one of the cars.

At one point, the older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, came directly toward police, Deveau said.

"He all of a sudden comes out from under cover and just starts walking down the street, shooting at our police officers, trying to get closer," Deveau said. "Now, my closest officer is five to 10 feet away, and they're exchanging gunfire between them. And he runs out of ammunition -- the bad guy -- and so one of my police officers comes off the side and tackles him in the street.

"We're trying to get him handcuffed. There's two or three police officers handcuffing him in the street -- the older brother. At the same time, at the last minute -- they obviously have tunnel vision, it's a very, very stressful situation -- one of them yells out, 'Look out!' and here comes the black SUV, the carjacked car, directly at them. They dive out of the way, and he (the younger brother) drives over his brother and drags him a short distance down the street."

Tamerlan Tsarnaev was later pronounced dead at the hospital. Officers then saw that a transit police officer who arrived after the first five was shot in the groin during the firefight.

The younger brother drove off amid more gunfire, Deveau said. He got two or three streets away, with officers in pursuit, then dumped the car and ran into the darkness, he said.

CJSmith
04-21-2013, 11:30 AM
Provided this dude survives, this is going to be a lengthy court battle. His defense won't be that he's innocent, it will be that he was coerced into doing the crime. With his brother dead and unable to defend himself, it will be a perfect wet dream for the defense.

Robert F. Dorr
04-21-2013, 11:35 AM
Provided this dude survives, this is going to be a lengthy court battle. His defense won't be that he's innocent, it will be that he was coerced into doing the crime. With his brother dead and unable to defend himself, it will be a perfect wet dream for the defense.

Thank goodness.

Unless the American legal system offers protections to the most despicable among us, it offers protections to no one.

They need to drop this idea of reviving the Bush-era fraud "enemy combatant" and treat this man as exactly what he is, a suspect accused of a criminal act.

By the way, I've seen nothing in the reporting to suggest that he is coherent, let alone that he claims to have been coerced. Where did you read that? Or did you make it up?

CJSmith
04-21-2013, 11:41 AM
Thank goodness.

Unless the American legal system offers protections to the most despicable among us, it offers protections to no one.

They need to drop this idea of reviving the Bush-era fraud "enemy combatant" and treat this man as exactly what he is, a suspect accused of a criminal act.

By the way, I've seen nothing in the reporting to suggest that he is coherent, let alone that he claims to have been coerced. Where did you read that? Or did you make it up?

This link suggests to my own opinion that this will happen.

http://news.yahoo.com/bombing-suspects-may-led-whom-001538013--spt.html

tiredretiredE7
04-21-2013, 12:58 PM
Tamerlan Tsarnaev was later pronounced dead at the hospital. Officers then saw that a transit police officer who arrived after the first five was shot in the groin during the firefight.

They shot a guy in the d1ck. Death penalty just for that.

KellyinAvon
04-21-2013, 02:06 PM
Thank goodness.

Unless the American legal system offers protections to the most despicable among us, it offers protections to no one.

They need to drop this idea of reviving the Bush-era fraud "enemy combatant" and treat this man as exactly what he is, a suspect accused of a criminal act.

By the way, I've seen nothing in the reporting to suggest that he is coherent, let alone that he claims to have been coerced. Where did you read that? Or did you make it up?

First, look at the big numbers on the calendar Bob. Now type "Beslan" into your favorite search engine. Now, type Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (or underwear bomber, that's easier) into your favorite search engine. Now Miranda v Arizona and really look at what Miranda protection is all about. Now copy/paste Tamerlan Tsarnaev Feiz Mohammad.

I'm not sure the answer here, it ain't disarming the law-abiding, that's for damn sure.

Tak
04-21-2013, 03:17 PM
Bob, I disagree. They had to have lied when seeking asylum and two years ago when FBI
Interviewed a brother, about their true anti American feelings. Thus invalidating their
Asylum granted, revoking American citizienship, advance to Quantico bay and collect
Enemy combatant status.

Tak
04-21-2013, 03:51 PM
"Feds hope to charge bombing suspect Dzhokar Tsarnaev as early as today, Justice Department official tells CNN"

giggawatt
04-21-2013, 05:17 PM
I guess the "Indefinite Detention" clause of the NDAA claims its first victim.

Tak
04-21-2013, 06:17 PM
Boston Bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was a big fan of "Breaking Bad" ... praising the show for teaching him how to dispose of corpses.

Since his capture Friday ... a lot of information is surfacing about the 19-year-old Chechan college student who helped mastermind a deadly attack on the Boston Marathon and led police on a massive manhunt.

Turns out Dzhokhar was a fan of violent TV shows ... in particular "Game of Thrones" and "Breaking Bad."

He tweeted earlier this year ... "Breaking Bad taught me how to dispose of a corpse."

As TMZ previously reported, his 26-year-old brother Tamerlan -- who was killed by cops during the manhunt -- was deep into hip hop.

Dzhokhar remains in police custody, in serious condition and unable to speak

garhkal
04-21-2013, 07:11 PM
What i'd like to know is if he "IS too poor" to get anything but a public defender, who the heck is paying for his medical treatment?

Banned
04-22-2013, 12:04 AM
First, look at the big numbers on the calendar Bob. Now type "Beslan" into your favorite search engine. Now, type Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (or underwear bomber, that's easier) into your favorite search engine. Now Miranda v Arizona and really look at what Miranda protection is all about. Now copy/paste Tamerlan Tsarnaev Feiz Mohammad.

I'm not sure the answer here, it ain't disarming the law-abiding, that's for damn sure.

And your point is what exactly?

Gripe about it all day... but in the end, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone.

Tak
04-22-2013, 12:31 AM
And your point is what exactly?

Gripe about it all day... but in the end, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone.

Wrong, it does not apply to dragons or unicorns.

KellyinAvon
04-22-2013, 01:00 AM
And your point is what exactly?

Gripe about it all day... but in the end, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone.

I haven't the time or the patience to spoon feed it to you. It's all there, just requires a little effort. And when did you change your name to Bob?

BURAWSKI
04-22-2013, 01:23 AM
Something I don't understand and maybe never will. Why do people who believe in Radical Islam want to kill us? I just can't seem to wrap myself around this. All of these terrorist attacks seem to center on the same common theme. It seems there are people that believe in the Quran's literal translation or the interpretation. There must be a way to reach out to those Muslims that believe this and change their minds about hating and killing people who have done nothing to them and pose no threat to them. It seems to me that those that believe in Radical Islam feel that we are a threat to them. I'd just like to know why because it has never made the least bit of sense to me.

Tak
04-22-2013, 02:24 AM
Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is awake and responding sporadically in writing to questions, authorities said. Investigators are asking about other cell members and other unexploded bombs, law enforcement sources told ABC News.

Tak
04-22-2013, 02:49 AM
I bet there's people on here who believe this
http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/are-you-just-a-believer-or-do-you-think/41807

JD2780
04-22-2013, 02:53 AM
Crazy folks.

Banned
04-22-2013, 02:54 AM
I haven't the time or the patience to spoon feed it to you. It's all there, just requires a little effort. And when did you change your name to Bob?


Something I don't understand and maybe never will. Why do people who believe in Radical Islam want to kill us? I just can't seem to wrap myself around this. All of these terrorist attacks seem to center on the same common theme. It seems there are people that believe in the Quran's literal translation or the interpretation. There must be a way to reach out to those Muslims that believe this and change their minds about hating and killing people who have done nothing to them and pose no threat to them. It seems to me that those that believe in Radical Islam feel that we are a threat to them. I'd just like to know why because it has never made the least bit of sense to me.

Fear and paranoia. I guess the violence won't stop until we eventually meet an enemy we can't overpower.

giggawatt
04-22-2013, 07:16 AM
Boston Bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was a big fan of "Breaking Bad" ... praising the show for teaching him how to dispose of corpses.

Since his capture Friday ... a lot of information is surfacing about the 19-year-old Chechan college student who helped mastermind a deadly attack on the Boston Marathon and led police on a massive manhunt.

Turns out Dzhokhar was a fan of violent TV shows ... in particular "Game of Thrones" and "Breaking Bad."

He tweeted earlier this year ... "Breaking Bad taught me how to dispose of a corpse."

As TMZ previously reported, his 26-year-old brother Tamerlan -- who was killed by cops during the manhunt -- was deep into hip hop.

Dzhokhar remains in police custody, in serious condition and unable to speak

Those idiots read too much into that. Just because he was fan of those shows doesn't mean it was an indicator of anything. I've read the guy's twitter feed. He seemed like a normal teenager. Some reporters thought he was a deep thinker or violent because they took Eminem and other rap lyrics to be his own.

I like Breaking Bad and I love Game of Thrones. In fact, I like gratuitous violence in movies. That's not an indication of violent tendencies.

INB4 FBI investigates me.

PickYourBattles
04-22-2013, 09:36 AM
All American citizens are entitled to full due process. Period. There is no discussion, unless you're a fascist, in which case you could bolster your arguments by studying the arguments Hitler made in support of the same goal. There is no reason why justice can't be served here, and our constitution and OUR rights preserved. Due process...court, trial, jury, sentence, death. There is no need to be so eager to trample on the Constitution we took an oath to, just to look like a tough guy online.

And this will be interesting. Seems the original Saudi suspect has just a few family members related to AQ and five actually in GITMO. I bet there is an interesting story there. http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/abdul-rahman-ali-al-harbi-bombing-person-of-interest-has-6-saudi-terrorists-in-family5-more-are-in-gitmo-47371/

FLAPS
04-22-2013, 10:06 AM
I bet there's people on here who believe this
http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/are-you-just-a-believer-or-do-you-think/41807

It does make you wonder. Any reason NOT to believe it? I'm not saying I believe it, but why should I not? Is it because the government would never do such an evil thing?

KellyinAvon
04-22-2013, 10:29 AM
I wonder how any of the house searches were voluntary. Having multiple gun barrels pointed at you really isn't the same as being asked if they can come in.

PYB: I don't think they'll need a confession from this guy (Miranda issue). They have the car-jacked Mercedes SUV guy for that. I'd say they got enough right now to execute this guy 12 times in any court.

I'm concerned about what I've seen too.

KellyinAvon
04-22-2013, 10:37 AM
It does make you wonder. Any reason NOT to believe it? I'm not saying I believe it, but why should I not? Is it because the government would never do such an evil thing?

This would be a conspiracy of a magnitude unimaginable even in a Hollywood summer blockbuster. How many people/local, state, federal, international agencies/hospitals would have to be involved? That's a cast of thousands.

FLAPS
04-22-2013, 10:40 AM
This would be a conspiracy of a magnitude unimaginable even in a Hollywood summer blockbuster. How many people/local, state, federal, international agencies/hospitals would have to be involved? That's a cast of thousands.

Cast of thousands...got it.

TJMAC77SP
04-22-2013, 11:47 AM
Thank goodness.

Unless the American legal system offers protections to the most despicable among us, it offers protections to no one.

They need to drop this idea of reviving the Bush-era fraud "enemy combatant" and treat this man as exactly what he is, a suspect accused of a criminal act.

By the way, I've seen nothing in the reporting to suggest that he is coherent, let alone that he claims to have been coerced. Where did you read that? Or did you make it up?

It was a supposition Bob. You make those all the time. His coherence was not mentioned.

BTW, I agree with you that he should be treated like what he is.......a criminal

PickYourBattles
04-22-2013, 12:43 PM
It was a supposition Bob. You make those all the time. His coherence was not mentioned.

BTW, I agree with you that he should be treated like what he is.......a criminal

Color me shocked to see your view on this matter. Fruit of a poisonous tree, indeed. You've got a whole orchard in your head.

giggawatt
04-22-2013, 12:56 PM
This would be a conspiracy of a magnitude unimaginable even in a Hollywood summer blockbuster. How many people/local, state, federal, international agencies/hospitals would have to be involved? That's a cast of thousands.

The only ones that need to know what's really going on are the ones at the very top. Just something I heard.

TJMAC77SP
04-22-2013, 02:28 PM
Color me shocked to see your view on this matter. Fruit of a poisonous tree, indeed. You've got a whole orchard in your head.

Oh please pissant, extend your 'break from the MTF' please. You are shocked because, color ME surprised your narrow, narcissistic viewpoint is, again color ME surprised full of SHIT.

BTW: What in the name of all that is holy does your inane reference to 'fruit of the poisonous tree' reference have to do with my post (note bold text) other than to act as a straight line for the completely moronic follow-up?

(whole orchard.......not even clever....having a tough morning are you?)

Tak
04-22-2013, 02:50 PM
Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, called his mother early Friday morning, alerting her that police were following him and his younger brother and that there had been a shooting.

"'The police, they have started shooting at us, they are chasing us,'" Zubeidat Tsarnaeva told ABC News in a telephone interview.

The conversation ended when Tsarnaev said, "'Mama, I love you,'" his mother said.

Tsarnaeva got frightened and started to cry and shout. He told her Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, was with him before the line cut off

Tak
04-22-2013, 02:50 PM
God, please help us.

(Braces for pyb/tj diatribes)

tiredretiredE7
04-22-2013, 02:52 PM
Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, called his mother early Friday morning, alerting her that police were following him and his younger brother and that there had been a shooting.

"'The police, they have started shooting at us, they are chasing us,'" Zubeidat Tsarnaeva told ABC News in a telephone interview.

The conversation ended when Tsarnaev said, "'Mama, I love you,'" his mother said.

Tsarnaeva got frightened and started to cry and shout. He told her Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, was with him before the line cut off

So he called his mommy for help? What a bad @$$ terrorist.

Tak
04-22-2013, 03:19 PM
Fixed it for ya. My pearls of wisdom are NEVER diatribes...................

Not sure if diatribes in themselves are good or bad,
Just require a cubic shit ton of reading.

TJMAC77SP
04-22-2013, 03:20 PM
God, please help us.

(Braces for pyb diatribe)

Fixed it for ya. My pearls of wisdom are NEVER diatribes...................

Tak
04-22-2013, 03:22 PM
Fixed it for ya. My pearls of wisdom are NEVER diatribes...................

Not sure if diatribes in themselves are good or bad,
Just require a cubic shit ton of reading.

Tak
04-22-2013, 03:53 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/parents-boston-suspect-describe-russia-trip-205525143.html

http://mto.mediatakeout.com/external/62421

Tak
04-22-2013, 08:40 PM
The White House said Monday that the surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing will not be treated as an enemy combatant, in response to calls from Republican lawmakers to consider that option for the sake of intelligence gathering.

JD2780
04-22-2013, 08:44 PM
The White House said Monday that the surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing will not be treated as an enemy combatant, in response to calls from Republican lawmakers to consider that option for the sake of intelligence gathering.

They are US citizens. So we kind of need to go that route. If Hassan is getting trial so should these two asshats. However, make it a quick trial.

Tak
04-22-2013, 09:02 PM
They are US citizens. So we kind of need to go that route. If Hassan is getting trial so should these two asshats. However, make it a quick trial.

Do you think they lied during citizenship process and FBI interviews years ago.

JD2780
04-22-2013, 09:03 PM
Do you think they lied during citizenship process and FBI interviews years ago.

Nope. That would assume they were that creative.

KellyinAvon
04-22-2013, 10:29 PM
Do you think they lied during citizenship process and FBI interviews years ago.

They didn't check "Yes" on the question: Do you plan to kill Americans with an improvised weapon of mass destruction?
Did anyone ask?

Tak
04-22-2013, 10:33 PM
They didn't check "Yes" on the question: Do you plan to kill Americans with an improvised weapon of mass destruction?
Did anyone ask?

Well, put that shit on there. That way when they attack, we invalidate their citizienship
And its waterboarding follies.

garhkal
04-23-2013, 12:06 AM
I wonder how any of the house searches were voluntary. Having multiple gun barrels pointed at you really isn't the same as being asked if they can come in.

PYB: I don't think they'll need a confession from this guy (Miranda issue). They have the car-jacked Mercedes SUV guy for that. I'd say they got enough right now to execute this guy 12 times in any court.

I'm concerned about what I've seen too.

I wondered that myself.. During the search for the brothers where they were going door to door with armed swat like cops, how realistically could anyone NOT feel they could have said "NO, you have no probable cause" or "where's your warrant"...

El Kabong
04-23-2013, 01:44 AM
Well, put that shit on there. That way when they attack, we invalidate their citizienship
And its waterboarding follies.

if its anything like the number of convictions from lying on an atf form 4473? never mind.

Robert F. Dorr
04-23-2013, 02:04 AM
The term "enemy combatant" has its history in J. Edgar Hoover's wish to execute a handful of German spies who happened to be physically present in the United States and who also happened (although this is irrelevant) to be American citizens. The concept of an "enemy combatant" was revived during the George W. Bush administration to apply to al-Qaeda members captured outside the United States. The term has no legitimacy.

The surviving brother in Boston is physically present in the United States and also happens (although this is irrelevant) to be an American citizen. He can be interviewed without being told his rights, but the results of an interview-without-Miranda cannot be used in a courtroom. He is accused of a crime, which among other things happens to be an act of terrorism, but not of committing an act of war. He cannot be treated differently than any other criminal suspect. He can be prosecuted and tried. He cannot be subjected to a military commission.

The American constitutional system will work only when it offers even the most despicable among us a genuine opportunity for a defense in a courtroom. The surviving brother in Boston, like every person accused of a crime and physically present in the United States (regardless of citizenship), can be prosecuted and tried -- but this must take place under the U.S. justice system, not in some military kangaroo court.

Tak
04-23-2013, 02:14 AM
The term "enemy combatant" has its history in J. Edgar Hoover's wish to execute a handful of German spies who happened to be physically present in the United States and who also happened (although this is irrelevant) to be American citizens. The concept of an "enemy combatant" was revived during the George W. Bush administration to apply to al-Qaeda members captured outside the United States. The term has no legitimacy.

The surviving brother in Boston is physically present in the United States and also happens (although this is irrelevant) to be an American citizen. He can be interviewed without being told his rights, but the results of an interview-without-Miranda cannot be used in a courtroom. He is accused of a crime, which among other things happens to be an act of terrorism, but not of committing an act of war. He cannot be treated differently than any other criminal suspect. He can be prosecuted and tried. He cannot be subjected to a military commission.

The American constitutional system will work only when it offers even the most despicable among us a genuine opportunity for a defense in a courtroom. The surviving brother in Boston, like every person accused of a crime and physically present in the United States (regardless of citizenship), can be prosecuted and tried -- but this must take place under the U.S. justice system, not in some military kangaroo court.

Stop Bush hate...

In 1984, the Reagan Administration used the term "war against terrorism" as part of an effort to pass legislation that was designed to freeze assets of terrorist groups and marshal the forces of government against them. Author Shane Harris asserts this was a reaction to the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/OCO_GWOT.jpg

BURAWSKI
04-23-2013, 02:25 AM
I'm not sure if an act of terrorism isn't an act of war. I mean all of the facts aren't in yet. It looks like these two might be members of a terrorist group that present a clear and present danger to all of us. I have read that his brother was a follower of Radical Islam which teaches to kill non-believers of Alla and Muhammad. That makes no sense to me. What terrorist group might have influenced them? Al Qaeda or some other terrorist group? The American people deserve protection from these groups which may even resort to using nuclear weapons (the kind that can be hidden in a suitcase - - not a dirty bomb either). Can you achieve that if you afford this guy the rights of an American citizen? These people don't play by the rules or even the Law of War. As far as I'm concerned neither he or his brother have rights. They forfeited them when they resorted to terrorism.

Tak
04-23-2013, 02:37 AM
When the two ethnic Chechen suspects were identified, the FBI said it reviewed its records and found that in early 2011, a foreign government — which law enforcement officials confirmed was Russia — had asked for information about Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The FBI said it was told that Tsarnaev was a "follower of radical Islam" and was preparing to travel to this foreign country to join unspecified underground groups.

drc100882
04-23-2013, 05:21 AM
When the two ethnic Chechen suspects were identified, the FBI said it reviewed its records and found that in early 2011, a foreign government — which law enforcement officials confirmed was Russia — had asked for information about Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The FBI said it was told that Tsarnaev was a "follower of radical Islam" and was preparing to travel to this foreign country to join unspecified underground groups. And then nothing happened. A few years later he recruited his brother and they planted bombs in a crowd and killed 3 innocent people while maiming hundreds more and ran away like the coward he is. Then the FBI caught up with him.

There, I fixed it for you.

CJSmith
04-23-2013, 05:23 AM
Provided this dude survives, this is going to be a lengthy court battle. His defense won't be that he's innocent, it will be that he was coerced into doing the crime. With his brother dead and unable to defend himself, it will be a perfect wet dream for the defense.

And it begins.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-claims-brother-masterminded-boston-marathon-bombings-023900412.html

drc100882
04-23-2013, 05:37 AM
And it begins.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-claims-brother-masterminded-boston-marathon-bombings-023900412.html

The dude is 19, competent, and well aware of what he was doing. Not to mention the massive amounts of video and photos of him. The defense of "he made me" isn't really the best way to go for him. If this turns into a "the devil made me do it" kind of trial we might as well just let him walk.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 05:47 AM
What gets me is we (the US) killed 10 children on April 7th and no one blinked an eye...

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-afghanistan-nato-airstrike-10-children-killed-20130407,0,6644610.story

And if I remember right there have been a total of a couple hundred "collateral damage" child deaths total.

I point this out because of all the emotional evoking media reports and political grandstanding going on about this Boston attack.

I also would like to point out more people were killed (including more first responders than just that 1 cop in Boston) and hurt in Texas but hardy anyone knows anything happened in Texas.

Tak
04-23-2013, 06:02 AM
What gets me is we (the US) killed 10 children on April 7th and no one blinked an eye...

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-afghanistan-nato-airstrike-10-children-killed-20130407,0,6644610.story

And if I remember right there have been a total of a couple hundred "collateral damage" child deaths total.

I point this out because of all the emotional evoking media reports and political grandstanding going on about this Boston attack.

I also would like to point out more people were killed (including more first responders than just that 1 cop in Boston) and hurt in Texas but hardy anyone knows anything happened in Texas.

Not comparable at all.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 06:22 AM
Not comparable at all.

Sarcasm?

or Why not?

Monkey
04-23-2013, 06:45 AM
What gets me is we (the US) killed 10 children on April 7th and no one blinked an eye...

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-afghanistan-nato-airstrike-10-children-killed-20130407,0,6644610.story

And if I remember right there have been a total of a couple hundred "collateral damage" child deaths total.

Civilians/non-combatants were not the targets of the airstrike(s). The bombs in Boston were meant solely to kill civilians (as many as possible). I'm not trying to diminish the tragedy of the children that "we" killed--I'm just trying to clarify the difference.


I also would like to point out more people were killed (including more first responders than just that 1 cop in Boston) and hurt in Texas but hardy anyone knows anything happened in Texas.

Murder will always garner more attention than an accident.

BOSS302
04-23-2013, 06:52 AM
What gets me is we (the US) killed 10 children on April 7th and no one blinked an eye...

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-afghanistan-nato-airstrike-10-children-killed-20130407,0,6644610.story

And if I remember right there have been a total of a couple hundred "collateral damage" child deaths total.

I point this out because of all the emotional evoking media reports and political grandstanding going on about this Boston attack.

I also would like to point out more people were killed (including more first responders than just that 1 cop in Boston) and hurt in Texas but hardy anyone knows anything happened in Texas.

Don't generalize just for the sake of your argument. The events in Texas were front-page news both in the US and in major media outlets across the world. Just like you did with your letter to your Congressmen a long time ago, you subscribe others to your views and opinions (using "We" and "Us" and "Anyone" language) without realizing that you do not speak for everyone.

In regards to these two events, one was an explosion caused by a fire at a fertilizer plant in a small town in the middle of Texas, the other was a terrorist attack in a major metropolitan area during an internationally-recognized athletic event. Both tragically took lives, but use some common sense; which do you think the media will cover? Which do you think people will want to follow simply due to the circumstances surrounding the events?

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 06:55 AM
Don't generalize just for the sake of your argument. The events in Texas were front-page news both in the US and in major media outlets across the world. Just like you did with your letter to your Congressmen a long time ago, you subscribe others to your views and opinions (using "We" and "Us" and "Anyone" language) without realizing that you do not speak for everyone.

In regards to these two events, one was an explosion caused by a fire at a fertilizer plant in a small town in the middle of Texas, the other was a terrorist attack in a major metropolitan area during an internationally-recognized athletic event. Both tragically took lives, but use some common sense; which do you think the media will cover? Which do you think people will want to follow simply due to the circumstances surrounding the events?

I speak for people I know that I hear say they have seen 5 second sound bites on Texas and 36 hours of Boston in one afternoon news cycle.

If by people, you mean sheeple...then yes, the story the media can invoke high emotional rage in people boosting ratings translating to revenue. And supporting a government that never waste an emergency to support an agenda or pass laws in the 'cover of darkness.'


Civilians/non-combatants were not the targets of the airstrike(s). The bombs in Boston were meant solely to kill civilians (as many as possible). I'm not trying to diminish the tragedy of the children that "we" killed--I'm just trying to clarify the difference.

Murder will always garner more attention than an accident.

"Intended Targets" don't make the loss of human life any less a tragedy. And blowback is real; what if this was a result of blowback?

The cop in Boston was sitting in a car and is touted as a hero.

First responders in Texas were actually in pursuit of saving people and you can hear the crickets.

Homeland Secretary was right...this isn't a NCIS episode. She was right, but the media is treating it like is.

AJBIGJ
04-23-2013, 09:35 AM
I swear people get a fair trial by jury confused with getting off scott free, of course this will be the case until a discussion steers in the direction of a female individual accusing a male individual of date rape then of course every trial is a railroading of the defendant 100% of the time (in the minds and arguments I've seen from many in here).

It's not an onerous undertaking to guarantee a human individual the rights of habeus corpus, despite the nature of the things they are being accused of. RFD has hit the nail on the head, chances are, if the evidence is sufficient to convict someone of a crime, especially one so well-publicized, that it will eventually result in a conviction. For our government to take a life absent habeus corpus, the threat needs to be both immediate and imminent, not a crapload of circumstancial evidence that they have committed a crime or may commit one sometime in the non-specific future. The difference is that when we do hold our accused in a fair trial, we've now exhausted the possibility by all apparent and available means that the individual being accused was not responsible in any way shape or form for what they are being accused of. Considering the penalties at stake, I for one want to be damned certain we got the right person. Without a trial by jury that includes fair representation for the individual being accused, at best we're operating a mob justice system, at worst Godwin's law is no longer an exaggeration.

Give the men a trial, they were born as persons and no crime a person can commit will ever deny an individual the rights of personhood. Our Constitution binds our government's actions, it doesn't give and take away our inherent rights as individuals. I'm pretty sure i read that somewhere, oh yes they have an amendment for that.

giggawatt
04-23-2013, 10:18 AM
BOOM! Nailed it AJ and RFD.

This guy is no different than James Holmes, Adam Lanza, Tim McVeigh, or Nadal Hassan. It's like people hear the word muslim and go apeshit so he must be a terrorist enemy combatant. What about Lanza? That guy slaughtered 22 kids!

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 10:27 AM
BOOM! Nailed it AJ and RFD.

This guy is no different than James Holmes, Adam Lanza, Tim McVeigh, or Nadal Hassan. It's like people hear the word muslim and go apeshit so he must be a terrorist enemy combatant. What about Lanza? That guy slaughtered 22 kids!

We didn't blast photos of the Holmes and Lanza bloodshed all over the TV...why are we treating Boston like it's an NCIS episode?

The shootings turned immediately into the gun control...the same day. I am surprised we are not hearing talk of needing to go to war over this Boston deal; there is a lot of propaganda coming out though.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2kkp4z.jpg

AJBIGJ
04-23-2013, 11:07 AM
We didn't blast photos of the Holmes and Lanza bloodshed all over the TV...why are we treating Boston like it's an NCIS episode?

The shootings turned immediately into the gun control...the same day. I am surprised we are not hearing talk of needing to go to war over this Boston deal; there is a lot of propaganda coming out though.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2kkp4z.jpg

Short answer is it's not really so much a conspiracy so much as a natural response of the media to a public backlash. When the news went viral Social Media lit up like a storm, after that the media was feeding the public what it apparently wanted to hear, play-by-play updates. The initial use of the word "terrorism" and all similar contexts helped fuel the fire, but it pretty well burned hot on its own. It wasn't left-wing media conspiracy (entirely anyways) more just the good old-fashioned use of demagoguery mixed with smart marketing to the consumer. Best thing we collectively could have done to get an honest portrayal of every occurrance surrounding this marathon debacle is to click the remote to a different channel. Since we didn't the media apparently felt obligated to give us the bang for our buck for all the attention we paid it, so they extinguished our burning fires with gasoline.

JD2780
04-23-2013, 11:56 AM
What gets me is we (the US) killed 10 children on April 7th and no one blinked an eye...

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-afghanistan-nato-airstrike-10-children-killed-20130407,0,6644610.story

And if I remember right there have been a total of a couple hundred "collateral damage" child deaths total.

I point this out because of all the emotional evoking media reports and political grandstanding going on about this Boston attack.

I also would like to point out more people were killed (including more first responders than just that 1 cop in Boston) and hurt in Texas but hardy anyone knows anything happened in Texas.

They aren't the same thing. One was a deliberate attack on civilians while the others are attacks on combatant that use civilians as shields. We don't always know who is in the home that they drive into.

As for not knowing what happened in TX, it's because people chose not to know. I know plenty of what happened and its a damn tragedy. However, it wasn't a deliberate attack, didn't involve a crazy ass man hunt. So one is viewed as more sensational by the media.

JD2780
04-23-2013, 12:05 PM
I speak for people I know that I hear say they have seen 5 second sound bites on Texas and 36 hours of Boston in one afternoon news cycle.

If by people, you mean sheeple...then yes, the story the media can invoke high emotional rage in people boosting ratings translating to revenue. And supporting a government that never waste an emergency to support an agenda or pass laws in the 'cover of darkness.'



"Intended Targets" don't make the loss of human life any less a tragedy. And blowback is real; what if this was a result of blowback?

The cop in Boston was sitting in a car and is touted as a hero.

First responders in Texas were actually in pursuit of saving people and you can hear the crickets.

Homeland Secretary was right...this isn't a NCIS episode. She was right, but the media is treating it like is.

The MIT cop was shot in his car and not touted as a hero. The transit cop was pursuing the clown and was shot.

No accidentally killing civilians is a tragic result of this enemy putting them in harms way. We can't read the minds of our enemy, I don't know that his family is there. I don't know a JDAM is going to go stupid.

The Boston marathon was a deliberate attack on civilians.

We haven't intentionally dropped weapons of a gathering of people enjoying a public event. When it did happen, pretty sure NATO reacted with apologies and support.

They are very different. Pull your head out of your ass.

71Fish
04-23-2013, 12:35 PM
We didn't blast photos of the Holmes and Lanza bloodshed all over the TV...why are we treating Boston like it's an NCIS episode?

The shootings turned immediately into the gun control...the same day. I am surprised we are not hearing talk of needing to go to war over this Boston deal; there is a lot of propaganda coming out though.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2kkp4z.jpg

Are you puposely being obtuse or are you just stupid?

These Moolim guys photos were flashed all over TV because, a) They were on the run and considered very dangerous, an b) there WAS much photo and video footage of them in the act.

The other white guys you mentioned weren't on the run or caught on camera committing the crime. Homles' mug shot and court videos are shown everytime he makes a court appearance, and Lanza's picture was shown a lot and still often shown.

Tim McVeigh's photo was constantly shown while he was on the run, and is still shown today at times.

Quit feeling sorry for vitimized terrorists who's daddy didn't love them when they were kids.

ConfusedAirman
04-23-2013, 01:49 PM
We should stop trying to compartmentalize terrorism as either a crime or act of war. Terrorism is a belief or ideology. Proponents of terrorism (terrorists) believe that creating terror in the general public will help them acheive their goals. This requires that the general public connect the source of the terror with the responsible terrorists and their goals. The terrorists then hope that the general public (and its government) will eventually accede to their demands in order to stop the terror activities. At its core, terrorism is extortion. Terrorism can be as deadly as 9/11 or the Boston Marathon incident, or as simple as a fake bomb scare. But acts that create terror are not necessarily terrorism. A mugger/burglar/serial murderer terrorizes his victims and the general public may be terrorized upon learning that a such a criminal is on the loose. But such crimes should not be, and usually aren't, called terrorism because common criminals commit such crimes for personal satisfaction and not to terrorize the general public. The same can most likely be said about Newtown, Va Tech, Columbine, and even Fort Hood. From all indication these individuals merely wanted to kill people and the terror instilled in the general public was a byproduct and not the primary intent. Killing and/or injuring large numbers of people as they go about their normal day-to-day lives is the best means to create terror within the general public because people will question and/or lose their sense of security and safety. Such actions have been part of history for centuries and will no doubt continue for as long as humans exist.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 02:16 PM
We should stop trying to compartmentalize terrorism as either a crime or act of war. Terrorism is a belief or ideology. Proponents of terrorism (terrorists) believe that creating terror in the general public will help them acheive their goals. This requires that the general public connect the source of the terror with the responsible terrorists and their goals. The terrorists then hope that the general public (and its government) will eventually accede to their demands in order to stop the terror activities. At its core, terrorism is extortion. Terrorism can be as deadly as 9/11 or the Boston Marathon incident, or as simple as a fake bomb scare. But acts that create terror are not necessarily terrorism. A mugger/burglar/serial murderer terrorizes his victims and the general public may be terrorized upon learning that a such a criminal is on the loose. But such crimes should not be, and usually aren't, called terrorism because common criminals commit such crimes for personal satisfaction and not to terrorize the general public. The same can most likely be said about Newtown, Va Tech, Columbine, and even Fort Hood. From all indication these individuals merely wanted to kill people and the terror instilled in the general public was a byproduct and not the primary intent. Killing and/or injuring large numbers of people as they go about their normal day-to-day lives is the best means to create terror within the general public because people will question and/or lose their sense of security and safety. Such actions have been part of history for centuries and will no doubt continue for as long as humans exist.

Or "terrorism" is blowback for decades of foreign intervention. After all, we (the US) created Al Qaeda...you won't read that in the PDG.



Are you puposely being obtuse or are you just stupid?

These Moolim guys photos were flashed all over TV because, a) They were on the run and considered very dangerous, an b) there WAS much photo and video footage of them in the act.

I was not referring to posting the wanted ads. I am referring to the constant nonsense spewed in the media before they were caught and after.


The other white guys you mentioned weren't on the run or caught on camera committing the crime. Homles' mug shot and court videos are shown everytime he makes a court appearance, and Lanza's picture was shown a lot and still often shown.

That doesn't affect whether or not dead bodies are plastered all over the news... Notice how I referred to their bloodshed aka victims...not them? No, of course not, you have no objectivity - you are full of the emotion the media has evoked in you.


Quit feeling sorry for vitimized terrorists who's daddy didn't love them when they were kids.

I'm not. Take your ad homenim arguments somewhere else. I feel sorry for the sheeple who are about to be paying sales tax on internet purchases because the Senate is using this distraction to pass new bills.

SomeRandomGuy
04-23-2013, 02:26 PM
[QUOTE=VFFTSGT;619778]Or "terrorism" is blowback for decades of foreign intervention. After all, we (the US) created Al Qaeda...you won't read that in the PDG.[QUOTE]

I was reading an article the other day about drone strikes. There is a group that is doing a review of them and plans to present it to the U.N. this summer. The article raised some interesting questions.

1. How is it ok for us to drop bombs in another country (Pakistan) without their permission?
2. If we are dropping bombs on Al Qaeda we must be at war with them right?
3. If we are at war with Al Qaeda and we can bombs on them wherever we find them can they not do the same to us?

TJMAC77SP
04-23-2013, 02:29 PM
The term "enemy combatant" has its history in J. Edgar Hoover's wish to execute a handful of German spies who happened to be physically present in the United States and who also happened (although this is irrelevant) to be American citizens. The concept of an "enemy combatant" was revived during the George W. Bush administration to apply to al-Qaeda members captured outside the United States. The term has no legitimacy.

The surviving brother in Boston is physically present in the United States and also happens (although this is irrelevant) to be an American citizen. He can be interviewed without being told his rights, but the results of an interview-without-Miranda cannot be used in a courtroom. He is accused of a crime, which among other things happens to be an act of terrorism, but not of committing an act of war. He cannot be treated differently than any other criminal suspect. He can be prosecuted and tried. He cannot be subjected to a military commission.

The American constitutional system will work only when it offers even the most despicable among us a genuine opportunity for a defense in a courtroom. The surviving brother in Boston, like every person accused of a crime and physically present in the United States (regardless of citizenship), can be prosecuted and tried -- but this must take place under the U.S. justice system, not in some military kangaroo court.

Bob,

Something you said got me thinking. Putting aside your amateur legal opinion, whatever Asshat says under un-Mirandized questioning would be inadmissible but that isn’t necessarily the primary concern of the authorities at this point. They are looking for a larger cell, according to some reports the two Asshat Brothers may have been part of a cell with up to 12 members. Granted news reporting accuracy is for shit nowadays but if true that is probably the focus of their questioning.

BOSS302
04-23-2013, 02:29 PM
Or "terrorism" is blowback for decades of foreign intervention. After all, we (the US) created Al Qaeda...you won't read that in the PDG.




I was not referring to posting the wanted ads. I am referring to the constant nonsense spewed in the media before they were caught and after.



That doesn't affect whether or not dead bodies are plastered all over the news... Notice how I referred to their bloodshed aka victims...not them? No, of course not, you have no objectivity - you are full of the emotion the media has evoked in you.



I'm not. Take you ad homenim arguments somewhere else. I feel sorry for the sheeple who are about to be paying sales tax on internet purchases because the Senate is using this distraction to pass new bills.

Yes. The Senate is using the bombings in Boston as a means of passing a bill that deals with commerce. You and Alex Jones would make good drinking partners.

The "dead bodies all over the news" is simply modern media; get used to it. People have smart phones with HD cameras that can upload pictures to the Internet in a matter of seconds. Journalism is evolving and this is the path it is taking. Is it right or wrong, that's another debate. But the "dead bodies all over the news" is not part of some agenda; it's simply news.

What "constant nonsense spewed all over the media before and after" are you talking about? Again, you are generalizing and making a blanket statement. I read plenty of news stories from both main stream media sources and more obscure blogs concerning the Boston bombings. Some was nonsense, some was actually informative and enlightening, some was simply the facts and nothing more.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 02:33 PM
I was reading an article the other day about drone strikes. There is a group that is doing a review of them and plans to present it to the U.N. this summer. The article raised some interesting questions.

1. How is it ok for us to drop bombs in another country (Pakistan) without their permission?
2. If we are dropping bombs on Al Qaeda we must be at war with them right?
3. If we are at war with Al Qaeda and we can bombs on them wherever we find them can they not do the same to us?

Please do not use practical points of view here.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 02:34 PM
If you don't REALLY see the difference I have a feeling no amount of explaining will tilt your opinion.

There is no difference in them killing our civilians and us killing their civilians. Unjustified death of civilians is just that, unjustified and wrong. LOAC taught me that.

TJMAC77SP
04-23-2013, 02:34 PM
Sarcasm?

or Why not?

If you don't REALLY see the difference I have a feeling no amount of explaining will tilt your opinion.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 02:36 PM
If you don't REALLY see the difference I have a feeling no amount of explaining will tilt your opinion.

There is no difference in them killing our civilians and us killing their civilians. Unjustified death of civilians is just that, unjustified and wrong. LOAC CBT taught me that.

Our civilians are not anymore important than their civilians.

TJMAC77SP
04-23-2013, 02:37 PM
There is no difference in them killing our civilians and us killing their civilians. Unjustified death of civilians is just that, unjustified and wrong. LOAC taught me that.

From the simple standpoint of end result.......absolutely. A little too simplistic. Actually LOAC didn't teach you that. It taught you that the intential targeting of civilians and the failure to take all reasonable precautions to prevent civilian deaths is mandated.

I get you are trying to make a point...I just don't think your comparison is working.

JD2780
04-23-2013, 02:38 PM
Or "terrorism" is blowback for decades of foreign intervention. After all, we (the US) created Al Qaeda...you won't read that in the PDG.

I was not referring to posting the wanted ads. I am referring to the constant nonsense spewed in the media before they were caught and after.



That doesn't affect whether or not dead bodies are plastered all over the news... Notice how I referred to their bloodshed aka victims...not them? No, of course not, you have no objectivity - you are full of the emotion the media has evoked in you.



I'm not. Take your ad homenim arguments somewhere else. I feel sorry for the sheeple who are about to be paying sales tax on internet purchases because the Senate is using this distraction to pass new bills.

Hey if you got a problem with how we execute business you can always get out of the military and protest. Go for it. You're a hypocrite at best. You will support the folks that are fighting the enemy, yet talk smack about how we do it.

If I remember correctly we didn't hijack any planes and fly them into buildings that had children in them. We don't purposefully go after civilians.

Yea sheeple. Pot calling the kettle black.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 02:41 PM
Hey if you got a problem with how we execute business you can always get out of the military and protest. Go for it. You're a hypocrite at best. You will support the folks that are fighting the enemy, yet talk smack about how we do it.

If I remember correctly we didn't hijack any planes and fly them into buildings that had children in them. We don't purposefully go after civilians.

Yea sheeple. Pot calling the kettle black.

I plan on getting out. snap. next ad hominem argument

You must have forgot about the Japanese internment.

JD2780
04-23-2013, 02:45 PM
I guess by your reasoning I'm not different than these two assholes. I'm no different than the pricks that flew planes into our buildings. To that I say fuck you. I am different. What to know why? Because we put safeguards in place to minimize it. I actually have intense remorse when something goes wrong.

I guess our UAS crews are the same as terrorists, our fixed wing pilots and crews are no different. I suggest you get out of the military and start making protest posters. Yes, I took your pathetic statements personally. Fuck off.

BURAWSKI
04-23-2013, 02:48 PM
These home-grown terrorists are really going to start forcing our government to justify the further erosion of our civil liberties in the name of national security and the safety of the people. The fact that the FBI had taken a look at this guy and didn't find anything is going to come back and haunt all of us at some point. You think we have still have the same rights that our Constitution originally guaranteed us? Think again. We don't. It's going to get worse.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 02:49 PM
From the simple standpoint of end result.......absolutely. A little too simplistic. Actually LOAC didn't teach you that. It taught you that the intential targeting of civilians and the failure to take all reasonable precautions to prevent civilian deaths is mandated.

I get you are trying to make a point...I just don't think your comparison is working.

If Gitmo is used to recruit terrorists then us killing civilians most certainly is. The people being recruited by the propaganda don't care about whether or not we "took precautions."

Hasn't the majority of this war been about winning hearts and minds?


I guess by your reasoning I'm not different than these two assholes. I'm no different than the pricks that flew planes into our buildings. To that I say fuck you. I am different. What to know why? Because we put safeguards in place to minimize it. I actually have intense remorse when something goes wrong.

I guess our UAS crews are the same as terrorists, our fixed wing pilots and crews are no different. I suggest you get out of the military and start making protest posters. Yes, I took your pathetic statements personally. Fuck off.

Nope, not what I said...I was actually hating on the media and introducing the possibility that blowback might be the cause.

But yeah, keep on with the emotional ad hominem arguments.

JD2780
04-23-2013, 02:51 PM
I plan on getting out. snap. next ad hominem argument

You must have forgot about the Japanese internment.

No I didn't forget. Snap? Ok you're so cool.

Yes, and we have repeatedly admitted that rounding up the Japanese was fucked up. Also bring up some recent shit because most terror groups are filled with kids that don't know anything except the recent events.

Next "America is evil and I feel bad and sympathize with folks that kill civilians without batting an eye"

Be sure to turn down all your va benefits. Don't want to profit from the great satan.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 02:56 PM
These home-grown terrorists are really going to start forcing our government to justify the further erosion of our civil liberties in the name of national security and the safety of the people. The fact that the FBI had taken a look at this guy and didn't find anything is going to come back and haunt all of us at some point. You think we have still have the same rights that our Constitution originally guaranteed us? Think again. We don't. It's going to get worse.

Never let an emergency go to waste.



Also bring up some recent shit because most terror groups are filled with kids that don't know anything except the recent events.

The confiscation of firearms from civilians by US Military after Katrina.

71Fish
04-23-2013, 02:59 PM
If Gitmo is used to recruit terrorists then us killing civilians most certainly is. The people being recruited by the propaganda don't care about whether or not we "took precautions."



We should probably let all the terrorists out of Club Gitmo so they stop hating us.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 03:02 PM
We should probably let all the terrorists out of Club Gitmo so they stop hating us.

That is not what I said...you emotionally filled people putting words into my mouth are ridiculous.

Merely introducing an idea that requires critical thinking about the possibility of blowback and how it does affect us, like it or not. Like it or not, the US created Al Qaeda decades ago to run Russia out of Afghanistan. Like it or not, we did not find WMD's in Iraq after 10 years of war.

If some cop came and wrongfully killed your child how would you react?

Jose Guerena Killed: Arizona Cops Shoot Former Marine In Botched Pot Raid
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html

I'm sure the cops felt bad when their good intentions fell through the cracks, but it doesn't change the psychological affect it has on people close to Jose.

giggawatt
04-23-2013, 03:08 PM
There are two things that always come out of this topic that I hate.

1.) It's no different than bombing kids with drones. This one really gets me. Yes, civilian deaths are always tragic. I suppose the best argument would be that we've become desensitized to it throughout 12 years of war. But to view the intentional murder of civilians at a marathon or children at a school the same as accidental casualties of a military strike is just silly.

2.) GD conspiracy theorists. Look, I know that not everything is what it seems and question everything but not EVERY thing is a government conspiracy. I will agree that this event can be used to justify increased security at the expense of civil liberties but I seriously doubt that the government came up with this elaborate plan for that reason. I also seriously doubt that this was cooked up to distract everyone from bills such as CISPA and the internet tax.

Given the lack of interest in government and politics by the people in this country, those bills would probalby pass without Boston, Texas, or North Korea in the news. An informed voter would be paying attention to a lot of things that goes on in the house and senate but unfortunately there is too much apathy. People are too busy keeping up with the Kardasians and Honey Boo Boo. They don't want to put in the effort to seek the information to make informed decisions or any decisions at all.

Saying that, I don't see it necessary for the government to cook up elaborate schemes to distract people while they pass shitty bills.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 03:12 PM
There are two things that always come out of this topic that I hate.

1.) It's no different than bombing kids with drones. This one really gets me. Yes, civilian deaths are always tragic. I suppose the best argument would be that we've become desensitized to it throughout 12 years of war.

Very much so.


But to view the intentional murder of civilians at a marathon or children at a school the same as accidental casualties of a military strike is just silly.


The psychological affect on the family and friends is no different and it is real...whether their kid was killed by accident or intentional. Their kid is dead. I just hate the how the media treats some people as more important than others based solely on the amount of emotion they can stir up.


2.) GD conspiracy theorists. Look, I know that not everything is what it seems and question everything but not EVERY thing is a government conspiracy. I will agree that this event can be used to justify increased security at the expense of civil liberties but I seriously doubt that the government came up with this elaborate plan for that reason. I also seriously doubt that this was cooked up to distract everyone from bills such as CISPA and the internet tax.

No one suggested that.


Given the lack of interest in government and politics by the people in this country, those bills would probalby pass without Boston, Texas, or North Korea in the news. An informed voter would be paying attention to a lot of things that goes on in the house and senate but unfortunately there is too much apathy. People are too busy keeping up with the Kardasians and Honey Boo Boo. They don't want to put in the effort to seek the information to make informed decisions or any decisions at all.

True story.


Saying that, I don't see it necessary for the government to cook up elaborate schemes to distract people while they pass shitty bills.

No one suggested that. Rahm Emanuel is the one who famously said never let a crisis go to waste. Feinstein said the same thing with her gun control law proposals.

The internet tax bill actually initially came up while everyone was distracted with the gun control drama. Kind of like NDAA went through the night while everyone was distracted by the artificial budget crisis.

Tak
04-23-2013, 03:18 PM
Sarcasm?

or Why not?

No comment, I plead the fif.

JD2780
04-23-2013, 03:27 PM
Never let an emergency go to waste.



The confiscation of firearms from civilians by US Military after Katrina.

US civilians, not folks with ties to radical Islamists. Nice though. Good game.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 03:28 PM
US civilians, not folks with ties to radical Islamists. Nice though. Good game.

You stated:


We don't purposefully go after civilians.


I said we have...Japanese internment is one example.

The confiscation of firearms from civilians by US Military personnel after Katrina is more recent example, the recent example you asked for.

giggawatt
04-23-2013, 03:32 PM
Very much so.



The psychological affect on the family and friends is no different and it is real...whether their kid was killed by accident or intentional. Their kid is dead. I just hate the how the media treats some people as more important than others based solely on the amount of emotion they can stir up.



No one suggested that.



True story.



No one suggested that. Rahm Emanuel is the one who famously said never let a crisis go to waste. Feinstein said the same thing with her gun control law proposals.

The internet tax bill actually initially came up while everyone was distracted with the gun control drama. Kind of like NDAA went through the night while everyone was distracted by the artificial budget crisis.

I wasn't trying to suggest that anyone proposed the same ideas that I mentioned. I was just commenting on the overall topic.

I will concede that you have a point about the psychological effect. But I think that goes back to the desensitizing that we have experienced as a society. Things become more real when they hit closer to home.

The bold part is why I don't see the need for the government to cook up elaborate schemes to get legislation passed. The general public can't seem to focus on more than one issue.

JD2780
04-23-2013, 03:33 PM
You stated:



I said we have...Japanese internment is one example.

The confiscation of firearms from civilians by US Military personnel after Katrina is more recent example, the recent example you asked for.

You mention us making America haters over seas. Show me how US military has deliberately attacked civilians overseas. Here is a more refined question you apparently need.

71Fish
04-23-2013, 03:33 PM
That is not what I said...you emotionally filled people putting words into my mouth are ridiculous.

If some cop came and wrongfully killed your child how would you react?

Jose Guerena Killed: Arizona Cops Shoot Former Marine In Botched Pot Raid
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html

I'm sure the cops felt bad when their good intentions fell through the cracks, but it doesn't change the psychological affect it has on people close to Jose.

I didn't say you said it. That's what I said.

Cops make mistakes. Politicians make mistakes. Military leaders make mistakes. You and I make mistakes. It sucks, but hopefully everyone learns from them.

Tak
04-23-2013, 03:34 PM
You mention us making America haters over seas. Show me how US military has deliberately attacked civilians overseas. Here is a more refined question you apparently need.

My lia.....

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 03:40 PM
You mention us making America haters over seas. Show me how US military has deliberately attacked civilians overseas. Here is a more refined question you apparently need.

I introduced the possibility exists - apparently there is proof out there that Gitmo has been used as a recruiting tool (has been well known/claimed by politicians and groups) and if that is true us killing civilians, whether intentional or not, has the same effect. I never have agreed with the attempting closing of it though because there is also proof those we have released have went to terrorism. But at the same time, there are claims that people who weren't terrorist became terrorist after being held in Gitmo. Imagine a world where we never created Al Qaeda in the first place and we wouldn't have this dilemma today.

And not only have we screwed up in the past, we haven't learned from it...we did the same thing in Egypt and doing the same in Syria with the rebels. Why is it we "care" about dictatorships and human right abuses in the middle east but not south of us?

I never claimed the US deliberately attacked civilians overseas. It doesn't matter to the family, friends, etc if we took precautions. It doesn't matter to the potential terrorists being recruited whether or not we took precautions. Hell, even our own recruiters are well known for lying, stretching the truth, misrepresent the truth, etc.

BURAWSKI
04-23-2013, 03:59 PM
Ron Paul talked about blowback with regard to the kind of terrorism we are experiencing today. The truth is our foreign policy is a big factor. We are involved in the wrong wars for the wrong reasons, with the wrong countries, at the wrong time. In other words most of them have been unnecessary which caused deaths on both sides. Also, our military presence overseas does nothing to enhance our image. There is no practical reason that we have a substantial military presence in so many countries. I believe that America's foreign and covert action policies have instigated most of the terrorism we are experiencing. And now a new generation is picking up the home grown torch and carrying it forward.

71Fish
04-23-2013, 04:25 PM
Ron Paul talked about blowback with regard to the kind of terrorism we are experiencing today. The truth is our foreign policy is a big factor. We are involved in the wrong wars, with the wrong countries, at the wrong time. Also, our military presence overseas does nothing to enhance our image. There is no practical reason that we have a substantial military presence in so many countries. I believe that America's foreign and covert action policies have instigated most of the terrorism we are experiencing. And now a new generation is picking up the home grown torch and carrying it forward.

We are still operating with a Cold War mentality. During the Cold War, we were present in so many countries to thwart an attack from the USSR.

Nowadays we are spread out trying to cover all the countries that may harbor terrorists. I don' know what the right answer is. If we leave those countries, we become more isolationist, possibly strengthening AQ and others. But we would probably minumize future attacks in the US. Spreading ourselves the way we are now is becoming unsustainable. I don't know what the right answer is, and apparently neither does DC.

TJMAC77SP
04-23-2013, 04:27 PM
No I didn't forget. Snap? Ok you're so cool.

Yes, and we have repeatedly admitted that rounding up the Japanese was fucked up. Also bring up some recent shit because most terror groups are filled with kids that don't know anything except the recent events.

Next "America is evil and I feel bad and sympathize with folks that kill civilians without batting an eye"

Be sure to turn down all your va benefits. Don't want to profit from the great satan.

I think "Japanese Internment" has become the new Nazi reference on the MTF.

Pullinteeth
04-23-2013, 05:10 PM
Thank goodness.

Unless the American legal system offers protections to the most despicable among us, it offers protections to no one.

They need to drop this idea of reviving the Bush-era fraud "enemy combatant" and treat this man as exactly what he is, a suspect accused of a criminal act.

By the way, I've seen nothing in the reporting to suggest that he is coherent, let alone that he claims to have been coerced. Where did you read that? Or did you make it up?

Your ignorance is blinding...the term enemy combatant has been around for centuries...what you are referring to is using the term enemy combatant synonymously with unlawful combatant. While you would like to blame Bush for this I am sure, the concept was formalized into international law under the Third Geneva Convention...the Third Geneva Convention was created in 1929-a full seven years befor G.W. Bush was born so it would be quite a stretch to think this is all his fault.... Not a stretch YOU would be unwilling to make I'm sure but a rational educated person?.....


The term "enemy combatant" has its history in J. Edgar Hoover's wish to execute a handful of German spies who happened to be physically present in the United States and who also happened (although this is irrelevant) to be American citizens. The concept of an "enemy combatant" was revived during the George W. Bush administration to apply to al-Qaeda members captured outside the United States. The term has no legitimacy.

Still wrong....on ALL levels... With your stubborn refusal to let any facts get in the way of your spewing forth drivel, I am starting to wonder if Joe hijacked your account...

Robert F. Dorr
04-23-2013, 07:00 PM
Your ignorance is blinding...the term enemy combatant has been around for centuries...what you are referring to is using the term enemy combatant synonymously with unlawful combatant. While you would like to blame Bush for this I am sure, the concept was formalized into international law under the Third Geneva Convention...the Third Geneva Convention was created in 1929-a full seven years befor G.W. Bush was born so it would be quite a stretch to think this is all his fault.... Not a stretch YOU would be unwilling to make I'm sure but a rational educated person?.....

Still wrong....on ALL levels... With your stubborn refusal to let any facts get in the way of your spewing forth drivel, I am starting to wonder if Joe hijacked your account...

This has got to be the stupidest post in the history of these Forums.

For someone who usually seems well informed, you are dangerously off course here.

Of course, the words "enemy combatant" have had meaning in the English language for centuries. It was 100% clear that I was referring to the term in the legal sense in which it is being used in present-day news reporting stories, not as simply a pair of words.

Every word of my previous post -- the origin with Hoover, the use of the term under Bush -- is accurate. Also accurate is my assertion that the term has no legitimacy.

The surviving Boston brother is an alleged criminal who is being charged with criminal acts. The alternative (hypothetically) would be for him to be a prisoner of war under Article V of the Geneva Convention of 1949 (not 1929) on Prisoners of War. If he were a prisoner of war, he could not be prosecuted for killing others.

The Hoover-Bush legal term enemy combatant -- not to be confused with enemy combatant when it's merely a pair of words thrown together is your appallingly stupid construction -- is illegitimate.

In any event, someone accused of a crime is entitled to a defense. That was the point.

garhkal
04-23-2013, 07:11 PM
And it begins.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-claims-brother-masterminded-boston-marathon-bombings-023900412.html

If little brother is that easily swayed, something is wrong..



I also would like to point out more people were killed (including more first responders than just that 1 cop in Boston) and hurt in Texas but hardy anyone knows anything happened in Texas.

And as many were injured.. Though i do give Fox credit (more so than CNN/MSNBC) in that they have been going back to texas periodically.
But i also notice Not one of them (other than a little bit on the ticker) have had diddly squat about the 180+ dead 11000+ injured in the latest China earthquake.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57580620/over-189-dead-in-china-earthquake-we-lost-everything/



In regards to these two events, one was an explosion caused by a fire at a fertilizer plant in a small town in the middle of Texas, the other was a terrorist attack in a major metropolitan area during an internationally-recognized athletic event. Both tragically took lives, but use some common sense; which do you think the media will cover? Which do you think people will want to follow simply due to the circumstances surrounding the events?

Don't know about you (or anyone else) but i would like to know about both.
Was the fire set deliberatly? Why was the plant so close to a population center. According to several reports the day of the blast/fire, the plant WAS cited for irregularities/safety issues (supposedly), back in 07.. if so why was it still open?


The cop in Boston was sitting in a car and is touted as a hero.

First responders in Texas were actually in pursuit of saving people and you can hear the crickets.

yup. We all know the names of everyone who died in Boston (inc that cop), but i have yet to hear about any of the name of the dead (or still missing first responders) from texas..

BURAWSKI
04-23-2013, 07:12 PM
There is a difference between crimes and terrorism. Terrorism with the intention of inflicting as much death and destruction among innocent people is just not the same as a crime. By that I mean it is more in the category of being an Act of War and should be approached much differently in the response. I certainly don't think it would be appropriate to be reading these people the Miranda warning. These people really want to destroy everything we stand for. Terrorists are truly a clear and present danger to the safety and security of our country and in a class removed from criminals. I feel the people who commit these acts should be treated the way an enemy soldier would be treated when captured.

JD2780
04-23-2013, 07:13 PM
If little brother is that easily swayed, something is wrong..



And as many were injured.. Though i do give Fox credit (more so than CNN/MSNBC) in that they have been going back to texas periodically.
But i also notice Not one of them (other than a little bit on the ticker) have had diddly squat about the 180+ dead 11000+ injured in the latest China earthquake.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57580620/over-189-dead-in-china-earthquake-we-lost-everything/



Don't know about you (or anyone else) but i would like to know about both.
Was the fire set deliberatly? Why was the plant so close to a population center. According to several reports the day of the blast/fire, the plant WAS cited for irregularities/safety issues (supposedly), back in 07.. if so why was it still open?



yup. We all know the names of everyone who died in Boston (inc that cop), but i have yet to hear about any of the name of the dead (or still missing first responders) from texas..

I've been getting info about the fire fighters in through the FF network.

giggawatt
04-23-2013, 08:33 PM
There is a difference between crimes and terrorism. Terrorism with the intention of inflicting as much death and destruction among innocent people is just not the same as a crime. By that I mean it is more in the category of being an Act of War and should be approached much differently in the response. I certainly don't think it would be appropriate to be reading these people the Miranda warning. These people really want to destroy everything we stand for. Terrorists are truly a clear and present danger to the safety and security of our country and in a class removed from criminals. I feel the people who commit these acts should be treated the way an enemy soldier would be treated when captured.

How would you classify James Holmes and Adam Lanza?

Tak
04-23-2013, 08:48 PM
How would you classify James Holmes and Adam Lanza?

PUSSIES!!!

BURAWSKI
04-23-2013, 08:55 PM
By my definition I would call them terrorists too.

VFFTSGT
04-23-2013, 09:09 PM
How would you classify James Holmes and Adam Lanza?

They are terrorist as much as some nails and a pressure cooker is a Weapon of Mass Destruction. If that is a WMD, then I guess Iraq was a success because I am sure we found comparable weapons there. However, last I heard we did not find any weapons of mass destruction (which is commonly used to describe nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons) in Iraq.

I don't understand the point in labeling things with the most viscous label just to make us feel better.

Are they alleged criminals? Yes Should they get a fair trial? Yes Should they get the death penalty? Yes, if convicted beyond a reasonable doubt

Should we label them something more heinous to manipulate laws on the books to seek a more emotionally satisfying outcome? NO

BURAWSKI
04-23-2013, 09:16 PM
I understand your point. My opinion hasn't changed though. And it is just my opinion. I can't help but feel strongly about it.

Measure Man
04-23-2013, 09:29 PM
There is a difference between crimes and terrorism. Terrorism with the intention of inflicting as much death and destruction among innocent people is just not the same as a crime. By that I mean it is more in the category of being an Act of War and should be approached much differently in the response. I certainly don't think it would be appropriate to be reading these people the Miranda warning. These people really want to destroy everything we stand for. Terrorists are truly a clear and present danger to the safety and security of our country and in a class removed from criminals. I feel the people who commit these acts should be treated the way an enemy soldier would be treated when captured.

An enemy soldier would be treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention...required to only give name, rank, date of birth and service number...repatriated after the end of hositilities.


They are terrorist as much as some nails and a pressure cooker is a Weapon of Mass Destruction. If that is a WMD, then I guess Iraq was a success because I am sure we found comparable weapons there. However, last I heard we did not find any weapons of mass destruction (which is commonly used to describe nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons) in Iraq.

I don't understand the point in labeling things with the most viscous label just to make us feel better.

Are they alleged criminals? Yes Should they get a fair trial? Yes Should they get the death penalty? Yes, if convicted beyond a reasonable doubt

Should we label them something more heinous to manipulate laws on the books to seek a more emotionally satisfying outcome? NO

Personally, I feel "Enemy Combatant" is a term of much more respect than "Criminal"...


I understand your point. My opinion hasn't changed though. And it is just my opinion. I can't help but feel strongly about it.

What happens when these "Enemy Combatants" hit a valid military target? i.e. the Ft Dix Six...or the guy who sot the uniformed soldier in AR...are those even a crime for an "Enemy Combatant"? So, should those guys simply be held as POWs until hostilites end (with who/what entity?)....Granted, they would have still violated some LOAC rules, but far short than murder or attempted murder.

BURAWSKI
04-23-2013, 09:43 PM
I feel it is uncharted territory. I don't remember even having to worry about the types of things that are occuring today. It was unheard of on American soil. We live in different times then what we may be used to previously. I was just expressing my opinion on the subject. I wish I had all the answers. And I never said I may be right either. People can get very emotional about this topic as well.

Measure Man
04-23-2013, 10:00 PM
I feel it is uncharted territory. I don't remember even having to worry about the types of things that are occuring today. It was unheard of on American soil. We live in different times then what we may be used to previously. I was just expressing my opinion on the subject. I wish I had all the answers. And I never said I may be right either. People can get very emotional about this topic as well.

Yes, it is very emotional. I'm not sure where the emotion to "try them as enemy combatants" is rooted in, however. Seems to me, enemy combatants are supposed to be treated with much more respect and dignity than criminals...I truly don't get it.

There seems to be the assumption that trying them as criminals means they have "the right to remain silent"...which is somewhat true...in that, if they are not read those rights, or coerced into statements, those statements can not be used in their trial. But, the FBI and CIA and military may still be able to question them indefinitely under duress to obtain statements regarding their affiliations, co-conspirators, etc. so long as those statements are not used in his trial.

If we have enough evidence anyway...who cares if his statements can't be used in trial? That's not the point of questioning them anyway.

I still say...criminal!

El Kabong
04-24-2013, 12:05 AM
How would you classify James Holmes and Adam Lanza?

mass-murderers

Capt Alfredo
04-24-2013, 12:22 AM
You mention us making America haters over seas. Show me how US military has deliberately attacked civilians overseas. Here is a more refined question you apparently need.

As much as it pains me to agree with VFFTSGT (!), but his point, it would seem, and I support it, is that when you're dead, you're dead. It doesn't matter the intent. If the Russians decided they wanted to liberate the U.S. from evil Obama and they "accidentally" killed my family while attacking some evil pinko leftists, you're damn right I'd be working up some good old-fashioned hate and terror against the Russkies, good intentions be damned.

VFFTSGT
04-24-2013, 01:28 AM
As much as it pains me to agree with VFFTSGT (!), but his point, it would seem, and I support it, is that when you're dead, you're dead. It doesn't matter the intent. If the Russians decided they wanted to liberate the U.S. from evil Obama and they "accidentally" killed my family while attacking some evil pinko leftists, you're damn right I'd be working up some good old-fashioned hate and terror against the Russkies, good intentions be damned.

Oh, it is not that painful! :hail

Tak
04-24-2013, 01:53 AM
Oh, it is not that painful! :hail

VFF is certified at pissing in the wind.

Greg
04-24-2013, 01:58 AM
Two US Marines, with prosthetics, visiting two Boston marathon victims, in the hospital:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy_LNYR-MiI&feature=player_embedded

Robert F. Dorr
04-24-2013, 02:09 AM
There is a difference between crimes and terrorism. Terrorism with the intention of inflicting as much death and destruction among innocent people is just not the same as a crime. By that I mean it is more in the category of being an Act of War and should be approached much differently in the response. I certainly don't think it would be appropriate to be reading these people the Miranda warning. These people really want to destroy everything we stand for. Terrorists are truly a clear and present danger to the safety and security of our country and in a class removed from criminals. I feel the people who commit these acts should be treated the way an enemy soldier would be treated when captured.

Terrorism is an accurate term for what happened in Boston. However, what happened in Boston was also a crime, not an act of war. There's nothing wrong with withholding a Miranda warning so long as the prosecution doesn't intend to use the result of the interview. It's still terrorism. It's still a crime, not an act of war. Miranda is required only if a prosecutor wants to use the result of the interview.

The term "enemy combatant" has no legal status and no legitimacy and can't be used to justify withholding the constitutional rights to which every person accused of a crime in the United States (regardless of that person's citizenship) is entitled.

I don't think you want these people to "be treated the way an enemy soldier would be treated when captured." That enemy soldier would be a prisoner of war, not a criminal (whether he commits an act of terrorism is irrelevant). If he is a prisoner of war, he cannot be prosecuted for killing the enemy. And he is entitled to a certain kind of treatment. I don't think this is what you want, Burawski.

I think what you want is to treat this guy like the prisoners at Guantanamo. But everything about Guantanamo is illegal and unconstitutional.

Robert F. Dorr
04-24-2013, 02:18 AM
I feel it is uncharted territory. I don't remember even having to worry about the types of things that are occuring today. It was unheard of on American soil. We live in different times then what we may be used to previously. I was just expressing my opinion on the subject. I wish I had all the answers. And I never said I may be right either. People can get very emotional about this topic as well.

Nothing uncharted about it. People have been committing crimes, including crimes that happen to be acts of terrorism, forever. Think about the anarchist movement in the United States at the start of the twentieth century. Our constitutional and judicial system can handle it. We don't need to manufacture a new term for it. If someone is believed to commit a criminal act, whether it's terrorism or not, you prosecute him. It's very familiar ground.

BURAWSKI
04-24-2013, 02:20 AM
Terrorism is an accurate term for what happened in Boston. However, what happened in Boston was also a crime, not an act of war. There's nothing wrong with withholding a Miranda warning so long as the prosecution doesn't intend to use the result of the interview. It's still terrorism. It's still a crime, not an act of war. Miranda is required only if a prosecutor wants to use the result of the interview.

The term "enemy combatant" has no legal status and no legitimacy and can't be used to justify withholding the constitutional rights to which every person accused of a crime in the United States (regardless of that person's citizenship) is entitled.

I don't think you want these people to "be treated the way an enemy soldier would be treated when captured." That enemy soldier would be a prisoner of war, not a criminal (whether he commits an act of terrorism is irrelevant). If he is a prisoner of war, he cannot be prosecuted for killing the enemy. And he is entitled to a certain kind of treatment. I don't think this is what you want, Burawski.

I think what you want is to treat this guy like the prisoners at Guantanamo. But everything about Guantanamo is illegal and unconstitutional.


I've been misunderstood. I do not condone torture. I believe in the Constitution which is frustrating and ironic because it hasn't been upheld by our policymakers. They failed us in that regard by abusing their authority and using events like September 11th to justify eroding our civil liberties. I do believe people who commit acts like the terrorism experienced in Boston should be held in a place where terrorists are held. Right now that place happens to be Gitmo. I just happen to believe that these Jihadists commiting acts of terror on American soil don't deserve (and haven't earned) the right to be treated as Americans who just committed a crime like his mother who was arrested for shoplifting. I certainly wouldn't want to see one of these people getting off on a legal technicality or some loophole in the law. I believe there will be another September 11th X10 someday. We need to prepare for it. Those hijackers could have been stopped had the FBI and CIA were working effectively. The FBI knew some of those hijackers were in country a year before September 11th, but DOJ lawyers placed a stopgap on further investigation over a concern that their rights would be violated. That was wrong in my opinion. What we are dealing with cannot be fought and stopped using conventional practices we have used in the past. Let me ask you this. Would you still feel the same way about this if somehow he was acquited either on an insanity defense or some other other legal maneuver defense lawyers use? And why was the guy who was shot dead on the FBI's radar in the past and then all inqueries of him were dropped. He should have been watched but the FBI was concerned about his rights. In this case I know that is almost impossible that his brother would be acquited on an insanity defense but these lawyers have done some pretty crazy things before, allowing the guilty to walk. I know my rant sounds ironic but that just goes to show the kind of problem these home-grown terrorists cause with regard to how to deal with them without taking away all our rights under the Constitution. Where do you draw the line between keeping American citizens safe and preserving the rights guaranteed to us under the Constitution? I don't have the answer, unfortunately.

Tak
04-24-2013, 03:05 AM
Nothing uncharted about it. People have been committing crimes, including crimes that happen to be acts of terrorism, forever. Think about the anarchist movement in the United States at the start of the twentieth century. Our constitutional and judicial system can handle it. We don't need to manufacture a new term for it. If someone is believed to commit a criminal act, whether it's terrorism or not, you prosecute him. It's very familiar ground.

Good point,
salem witches were terrorists.
KKK were terrorists.

giggawatt
04-24-2013, 07:07 AM
It appears to me, not a fact, not accusing anyone here, just appears that the same ones that are so willing to skirt the constitution for this case and others are in the same crowd that villifies the Obama administration for skirting the constitution for his agenda. Like I said, that is just how it appears to me.

JD2780
04-24-2013, 11:49 AM
I just get a kick out of the folks that are willing to put our troops in the same light as these assholes. We are different. We don't, in our current wars, deliberately attack civilians. Yes shit happens, and its horrible. Not it may not make a difference to th families, but it does make a difference to me and my friends. These two clowns weren't losing sleep over killing an 8 year old, mean while my buddy was beside himself for days when he realized he killed a family, when the trigger man of an. IED ran in a house and was shooting US troops. My buddy dropped on the house. Yea, he killed a family, but he was more remorseful than these assholes. Plus, he didn't put the family in that position. The other guy did. I guess we are just Ike them though.

TJMAC77SP
04-24-2013, 11:58 AM
They are terrorist as much as some nails and a pressure cooker is a Weapon of Mass Destruction. If that is a WMD, then I guess Iraq was a success because I am sure we found comparable weapons there. However, last I heard we did not find any weapons of mass destruction (which is commonly used to describe nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons) in Iraq.

I don't understand the point in labeling things with the most viscous label just to make us feel better.

Are they alleged criminals? Yes Should they get a fair trial? Yes Should they get the death penalty? Yes, if convicted beyond a reasonable doubt

Should we label them something more heinous to manipulate laws on the books to seek a more emotionally satisfying outcome? NO

Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) are defined in US law (18 USC §2332a) as:

(A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title (i.e. explosive device);

(B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;

(C) any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector (as those terms are defined in section 178 of this title)(D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.”

Section 921

(4) The term “destructive device” means—

(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas—

(i) bomb,
(ii) grenade,
(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,
(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(v) mine, or
(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;

TJMAC77SP
04-24-2013, 12:01 PM
Terrorism is an accurate term for what happened in Boston. However, what happened in Boston was also a crime, not an act of war. There's nothing wrong with withholding a Miranda warning so long as the prosecution doesn't intend to use the result of the interview. It's still terrorism. It's still a crime, not an act of war. Miranda is required only if a prosecutor wants to use the result of the interview.

The term "enemy combatant" has no legal status and no legitimacy and can't be used to justify withholding the constitutional rights to which every person accused of a crime in the United States (regardless of that person's citizenship) is entitled.

I don't think you want these people to "be treated the way an enemy soldier would be treated when captured." That enemy soldier would be a prisoner of war, not a criminal (whether he commits an act of terrorism is irrelevant). If he is a prisoner of war, he cannot be prosecuted for killing the enemy. And he is entitled to a certain kind of treatment. I don't think this is what you want, Burawski.

I think what you want is to treat this guy like the prisoners at Guantanamo. But everything about Guantanamo is (in my unprofessional opinion and absent court rulings) illegal and unconstitutional.

While I agree with you about the asshat in Boston I had to fix the rest of your post.

Pullinteeth
04-24-2013, 01:36 PM
This has got to be the stupidest post in the history of these Forums.

For someone who usually seems well informed, you are dangerously off course here.

Of course, the words "enemy combatant" have had meaning in the English language for centuries. It was 100% clear that I was referring to the term in the legal sense in which it is being used in present-day news reporting stories, not as simply a pair of words.

Every word of my previous post -- the origin with Hoover, the use of the term under Bush -- is accurate. Also accurate is my assertion that the term has no legitimacy.

The surviving Boston brother is an alleged criminal who is being charged with criminal acts. The alternative (hypothetically) would be for him to be a prisoner of war under Article V of the Geneva Convention of 1949 (not 1929) on Prisoners of War. If he were a prisoner of war, he could not be prosecuted for killing others.

The Hoover-Bush legal term enemy combatant -- not to be confused with enemy combatant when it's merely a pair of words thrown together is your appallingly stupid construction -- is illegitimate.

In any event, someone accused of a crime is entitled to a defense. That was the point.

So you are saying that the Geneva Conventions have no legitimacy? Interesting. The use of enemy combatant (in the current vernauclar) refers to unlawful comabatants as defined by the Geneva Conventions. I wasn't aware that Hoover served on the Supreme Court of the United States....after all it was their decision in 1942 that distinguished between lawful combantants, unlawful combatants, and enemy combatants.... Since the Supreme Court made that definition back in 1942, it shows how strong your bias is that you STILL blame Bush for the definition....


Terrorism is an accurate term for what happened in Boston. However, what happened in Boston was also a crime, not an act of war. There's nothing wrong with withholding a Miranda warning so long as the prosecution doesn't intend to use the result of the interview. It's still terrorism. It's still a crime, not an act of war. Miranda is required only if a prosecutor wants to use the result of the interview.

The term "enemy combatant" has no legal status and no legitimacy and can't be used to justify withholding the constitutional rights to which every person accused of a crime in the United States (regardless of that person's citizenship) is entitled.

I don't think you want these people to "be treated the way an enemy soldier would be treated when captured." That enemy soldier would be a prisoner of war, not a criminal (whether he commits an act of terrorism is irrelevant). If he is a prisoner of war, he cannot be prosecuted for killing the enemy. And he is entitled to a certain kind of treatment. I don't think this is what you want, Burawski.

I think what you want is to treat this guy like the prisoners at Guantanamo. But everything about Guantanamo is illegal and unconstitutional.

You are 100% correct...it was an act of terrorism AND a crime, committed by U.S. citizens on U.S. soil..

Wrong...it does do. A supreme Court Decision is sort of the pinnacle of legal authority and they defined it (legally) back in 1942. I am not sure your are right that a foriegn terrorist wouldn't be defined as such if they struck on U.S. soil but these are U.S. citizens so I agree that it certianly doesn't apply to them.

I get that you don't see the Geneva Conventions as having any legitamacy but you are right that they aren't POWs nor could they be treated as a POW...can't send them back to an Army/country they don't belong to...

Not true...even Obama loves Gitmo....


BTW, I am of the opinion that this yahoo has constitutional rights, should be tried in U.S. courts, and that he is NOT an enemy combatant (though he is a terrorist). There is nothing all that special about him. He is a criminal and should be treated as such...

Tak
04-24-2013, 03:06 PM
Helping those in need

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2314072/Boston-bomber-Tamerlan-sat-home-collecting-WELFARE-benefits-plotting-bomb-America-wife-worked-80-hours-week.html

Tak
04-24-2013, 03:09 PM
I can imagine response to this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313249/Boston-bomber-search-Moment-SWAT-teams-ordered-innocent-neighbors-houses-GUNPOINT.html?ICO=most_read_module

VFFTSGT
04-24-2013, 03:47 PM
Yeap, not only illegal and unconstitutional searches but bad precedent too.

Already been talking about them on another forum.

SomeRandomGuy
04-24-2013, 03:54 PM
Yeap, not only illegal and unconstitutional searches but bad precedent too.

Already been talking about them on another forum.

Kind of reminds me about the things cops were doing when they were searching for Chris Dorner. Like for example when they opened fire on two ladies ina truck that was not even the same color as the suspect's. I guess when people are afraid we are automatically willing to surrender any and all rights and just let the police do as they please.

JD2780
04-24-2013, 03:56 PM
If it means protecting my family from a guy that has already blown up a sporting event, and shot at cops, I'd be willing to invite the cops in and look around without ANY issue.

71Fish
04-24-2013, 04:30 PM
So you are saying that the Geneva Conventions have no legitimacy? Interesting. The use of enemy combatant (in the current vernauclar) refers to unlawful comabatants as defined by the Geneva Conventions. I wasn't aware that Hoover served on the Supreme Court of the United States....after all it was their decision in 1942 that distinguished between lawful combantants, unlawful combatants, and enemy combatants.... Since the Supreme Court made that definition back in 1942, it shows how strong your bias is that you STILL blame Bush for the definition....



You are 100% correct...it was an act of terrorism AND a crime, committed by U.S. citizens on U.S. soil..

Wrong...it does do. A supreme Court Decision is sort of the pinnacle of legal authority and they defined it (legally) back in 1942. I am not sure your are right that a foriegn terrorist wouldn't be defined as such if they struck on U.S. soil but these are U.S. citizens so I agree that it certianly doesn't apply to them.

I get that you don't see the Geneva Conventions as having any legitamacy but you are right that they aren't POWs nor could they be treated as a POW...can't send them back to an Army/country they don't belong to...

Not true...even Obama loves Gitmo....


BTW, I am of the opinion that this yahoo has constitutional rights, should be tried in U.S. courts, and that he is NOT an enemy combatant (though he is a terrorist). There is nothing all that special about him. He is a criminal and should be treated as such...

I'm not a law professor so I could be wrong. I'm sure someone here who is a law professor will correct me. The Geneva Convention only applies to enemy combatants during time of "declared war". That being the case, these two idiots fall under criminal laws of the US.


Maybe I got it backassward the point you were trying to make. You seemed to be trying to make several.


On a side note, don't we normally deport Naturalized citizens after they serve out their term?

Tak
04-24-2013, 04:34 PM
Is there not a global war on terror...is that just a made up name...