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View Full Version : Moral Patches....love'em or leave'em?



70gto
04-15-2013, 08:05 PM
Noticed this story on AF.mil regarding a critical care team... Interesting morale patches, a U.S. flag shaped like a mustache and two other moral patches on his left arm. Fun or disrespectful??

http://www.amc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/2013/03/130323-F-LR266-142.JPG

imported_SergeantJack
04-17-2013, 08:15 PM
I would say.........it's FADDISH.

Tak
04-17-2013, 08:52 PM
Noticed this story on AF.mil regarding a critical care team... Interesting moral patches, a U.S. flag shaped like a mustache and two other moral patches on his left arm. Fun or disrespectful??

http://www.amc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/2013/03/130323-F-LR266-142.JPG

Noticed you need to speak morale correctly.

loadsmith
04-18-2013, 12:38 AM
Most times in flight or away from your deployed location, many folks with have a "special" patch they will wear, much like the one on his right arm. His mustache flag patch is awful and in poor taste in my opinion. Usually when you know someone is taking photos that may get printed, that's a good time to remove all your flair and unauthorized patches. On the other hand, those CCATT folks do some great helping to save lives on those flights, maybe he uses the patch as a way to make the injured soldiers smile.

JD2780
04-18-2013, 12:42 AM
I say, if they're authorized let everybody sport them. Not just the nobles in flight suits.

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 01:24 AM
I say, if they're authorized let everybody sport them. Not just the nobles in flight suits.

If you notice the fella in the pic is not in a flight suit. Not taking away from the Med folks but their really not crew members.

Tak
04-18-2013, 01:29 AM
just when you think this place is becoming prick free, strataboomer posts.

JD2780
04-18-2013, 01:31 AM
If you notice the fella in the pic is not in a flight suit. Not taking away from the Med folks but their really not crew members.

Pic was jacked up on my end so I couldn't tell.

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 01:36 AM
just when you think this place is becoming prick free, strataboomer posts.

If you ever had them on a jet you would know what I mean. Had to egress once and they could barely find the hatch.

JD2780
04-18-2013, 01:37 AM
If you notice the fella in the pic is not in a flight suit. Not taking away from the Med folks but their really not crew members.

Aero vac are considered crew members. They have been known to wear flight suits. We rocked certain patches on our ACUs and REMFs jumped out shit for having shitbag tabs, suck-o-meters, and shockers. We also had other things like hadj don't surf, Major League Bomb dropper.

Moments later some sky god walked by with a baby stewey patch on his flight suit and nothing was said to him. The fraternity was in full swing.

I say let th is doc/PA/nurse, wear whatever patches he wants.

JD2780
04-18-2013, 01:39 AM
If you ever had them on a jet you would know what I mean. Had to egress once and they could barely find the hatch.

Apparently the crew didnt properly train them for emergency procedures or the crew didnt properly lead during the emergency.

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 01:40 AM
Apparently the crew didnt properly train them for emergency procedures or the crew didnt properly lead during the emergency.

They are certified on each airplane for egress.

JD2780
04-18-2013, 01:43 AM
They are certified on each airplane for egress.

Yet you said they weren't crew. Contradicting yourself.

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 01:47 AM
Yet you said they weren't crew. Contradicting yourself.

I said they are not really crew members. They are not considered CEA's or rated.

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 01:47 AM
I say, if they're authorized let everybody sport them. Not just the nobles in flight suits.

For the record....I have never worn a morale patch nor do I like them

JD2780
04-18-2013, 01:52 AM
I said they are not really crew members. They are not considered CEA's or rated.

Nope, but they are listed as crew members, receive flight pay, and complete the egress training you described. So they are considered crew members. They're just busy keeping people alive in the back instead of having aircraft related duties.

JD2780
04-18-2013, 01:56 AM
For the record....I have never worn a morale patch nor do I like them

Fair enough. We have one flyer that dislikes morale patches.

TACPs on the ABCCC weren't CEA yet fly just like the loadmasters, FE or another enlisted aircrew member. I guess they werent real crew members though.

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 01:56 AM
Nope, but they are listed as crew members, receive flight pay, and complete the egress training you described. So they are considered crew members. They're just busy keeping people alive in the back instead of having aircraft related duties.

They don't get flight pay....they get hazardous duty pay only when they are in a flying billet. Yes they are, but again they are not Career Enlisted Aviators or Rated. Big differences. I have hauled them around the world in a empty jet and it is a circus. Not insulting them....they do a great job of getting folks home! Just stating a point of view and a few facts

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 02:03 AM
Fair enough. We have one flyer that dislikes morale patches.

TACPs on the ABCCC weren't CEA yet fly just like the loadmasters, FE or another enlisted aircrew member. I guess they werent real crew members though.
FE's and Loads are CEA's. AFI 11-402 Spells out what the AF considers CEA's. So no they were not.

JD2780
04-18-2013, 02:10 AM
FE's and Loads are CEA's. AFI 11-402 Spells out what the AF considers CEA's. So no they were not.

There was a typo in my post and it wouldn't let me edit. No they aren't aircrew. It's funny how "aircrew" still seem to look down on folks flying missions with them that aren't actual aircrew members. You said you're not insulting them, but you do appear to look down on them with disdain.

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 02:14 AM
There was a typo in my post and it wouldn't let me edit. No they aren't aircrew. It's funny how "aircrew" still seem to look down on folks flying missions with them that aren't actual aircrew members. You said you're not insulting them, but you do appear to look down on them with disdain.

To a point....your correct. Not arguing that. I just get wrapped around the axle because it seems everyone likes to rag on fliers.

JD2780
04-18-2013, 02:19 AM
To a point....your correct. Not arguing that. I just get wrapped around the axle because it seems everyone likes to rag on fliers.

We do. It's usually because flyers tend to look down on nonflyers.

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 02:28 AM
We do. It's usually because flyers tend to look down on nonflyers.

Possibly. :cry

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 02:32 AM
That's funny

JD2780
04-18-2013, 02:32 AM
Possibly. :cry

Yes, folks bitch and moan. If they don't, they bottle it all up and start being some asses. I chose to tell pilots what I think instead of beating their asses. It seems like the more mature thing to do.

Tak
04-18-2013, 02:40 AM
If you ever had them on a jet you would know what I mean. Had to egress once and they could barely find the hatch.

We had them on missile, no prob.

CrustySMSgt
04-18-2013, 07:19 AM
I've all but given up chasing these clowns down and trying to get them to do the right thing... I could spend all day doing it. The RPA guys and their "sortie count" and "flying hours" patches. REALLY?!? The attitude is so prevelant that I have talked to cops and maintainers with patches. Hell I've even seen a wing commander has been seen rocking a morale patch, so how do you get the Airmen to do the right thing? I really just want to go down to the boardwalk alterations shop, buy up 3-4 obnoxious patches and slap them on my velcro and walk around looking like a fool, just to see who says something. I'm guessing no one...


If you notice the fella in the pic is not in a flight suit. Not taking away from the Med folks but their really not crew members.

They are OCP "flight suits"


They don't get flight pay....they get hazardous duty pay only when they are in a flying billet. Yes they are, but again they are not Career Enlisted Aviators or Rated. Big differences. I have hauled them around the world in a empty jet and it is a circus. Not insulting them....they do a great job of getting folks home! Just stating a point of view and a few facts

This reminded my of a boom I once knew who actually though so much of himself that he sported a hideously gaudy bracelet of his "wings." You just can't make this shit up... seriously?

JD2780
04-18-2013, 10:11 AM
That's funny

What's funny is the fact that many aircrew think they're more important than anybody else.

Chief_KO
04-18-2013, 11:52 AM
Somebody tried to market "moral" patches...no one bought any.

This reminds me of the time in the dark days of the early 90's when we tried the ASNP (Aircrew Style Name Patch) on the BDUs to replace stripes and USAF/name tapes. Sold to the masses as the response to Airmen complaining about the cost of buying and sewing of item on the BDU. Lasted about a year or so...

Interesting point is that while the aircrew were allowed different colors (each meaning something different) along with the ever popular (gag) "Call Sign", the rank and file Airmen were mandated to wear only black leather ASNP with only rank, last name, first name, middle initial with specialty badge. Guess we couldn't have some CE Airman spouting a ASNP with "Turd Wrangler" on his ASNP. Also we couldn't roll up the cuffs on our BDUs and never got our leather jackets either...

Imagine the anarchy if all Airmen followed the baggie wearer mantra of blatantly choosing to obey only certain regulations, instructions, policies...

loadsmith
04-18-2013, 01:44 PM
If you notice the fella in the pic is not in a flight suit. Not taking away from the Med folks but their really not crew members.

First, have you ever seen or worn a OCP flight suit? Second, check out AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 11-2AE VOLUME 2, AEROMEDICAL EVACUATION AIRCREW EVALUATION CRITERIA. What in your opinion consititues a "crew member?" Just because you have wings? Many folks fly on my plane that don't have wings or wear a bag but during the course of our mission they are considered in my eyes as a "crew member." How many AE missions inside Iraq/Afghanistan how you flown to actually see what their actually mission is and how these folks contribute downrange. And you are aware they Flight Nurses are awarded wings as well?

JD2780
04-18-2013, 01:53 PM
First, have you ever seen or worn a OCP flight suit? Second, check out AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 11-2AE VOLUME 2, AEROMEDICAL EVACUATION AIRCREW EVALUATION CRITERIA. What in your opinion consititues a "crew member?" Just because you have wings? Many folks fly on my plane that don't have wings or wear a bag but during the course of our mission they are considered in my eyes as a "crew member." How many AE missions inside Iraq/Afghanistan how you flown to actually see what their actually mission is and how these folks contribute downrange. And you are aware they Flight Nurses are awarded wings as well?

Woah now, you can be going against him. He is the all knowing of CEA. If you don't got wings, you're a danger to his flying gas station. Since you ARE a CEA I'll call you a blasphemer and have you excommunicated. Turn in your frat cub card, aviator glasses, and AFI waiver for rolling up your sleeves.

Seriously though, nice to see a flyer that understands what those AE folks do. They've kept a few of my friends alive. The aircrew themselves did great jobs as well. I'm sure its a little different than flying pallets of MREs around.

CrustySMSgt
04-18-2013, 01:53 PM
First, have you ever seen or worn a OCP flight suit? Second, check out AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 11-2AE VOLUME 2, AEROMEDICAL EVACUATION AIRCREW EVALUATION CRITERIA. What in your opinion consititues a "crew member?" Just because you have wings? Many folks fly on my plane that don't have wings or wear a bag but during the course of our mission they are considered in my eyes as a "crew member." How many AE missions inside Iraq/Afghanistan how you flown to actually see what their actually mission is and how these folks contribute downrange. And you are aware they Flight Nurses are awarded wings as well?

Better watch your tongue son! You're gonna get blackballed! :director :madgrin

CrustySMSgt
04-18-2013, 01:54 PM
Woah now, you can be going against him. He is the all knowing of CEA. If you don't got wings, you're a danger to his flying gas station. Since you ARE a CEA I'll call you a blasphemer and have you excommunicated. Turn in your frat cub card, aviator glasses, and AFI waiver for rolling up your sleeves.



GMTA! :usa2

JD2780
04-18-2013, 01:57 PM
GMTA! :usa2

It happens from time to time.

BISSBOSS
04-18-2013, 03:29 PM
Noticed this story on AF.mil regarding a critical care team... Interesting morale patches, a U.S. flag shaped like a mustache and two other moral patches on his left arm. Fun or disrespectful??

http://www.amc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/2013/03/130323-F-LR266-142.JPG


Just my opinion but the whole Morale Patch thing is shady at best.

In theory - It looks like a great thing to do but in execution (as with a bunch of things in the AF) there are ALWAYS those who take it too far. I have seen some that were crude, vulgar, profane, misogynistic and outright offensive. Those have no (ZERO) place being displayed on a uniform. At all. Make it difficult to explain to your guys why they have to wear the uniform correctly when Morale Patches are proudly displayed and condoned.

The "Do as I say and not as I do" attitude is part of the reason the AF is having problems today...

Just my two cents...

-BB-

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 11:45 PM
First, have you ever seen or worn a OCP flight suit? Second, check out AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 11-2AE VOLUME 2, AEROMEDICAL EVACUATION AIRCREW EVALUATION CRITERIA. What in your opinion consititues a "crew member?" Just because you have wings? Many folks fly on my plane that don't have wings or wear a bag but during the course of our mission they are considered in my eyes as a "crew member." How many AE missions inside Iraq/Afghanistan how you flown to actually see what their actually mission is and how these folks contribute downrange. And you are aware they Flight Nurses are awarded wings as well?

Well Loadie yes I have....hence what I said I am not taking anything away from them. Flew in and out of Bagram with those folk doing a hell of a job taking care of our heroes. But...yes the but....that does not make them crewmembers, just folks doing their job on a jet hat can also be done on the ground. Again, not taking any of their accomplishments away. They do a hell of job in shitty conditions.

In response to your mention of Vol 2...,so do Sensor Operators as well....but they are not crewmembers...they have their own AFSC but they have 0 hours in a airplane.

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 11:48 PM
Woah now, you can be going against him. He is the all knowing of CEA. If you don't got wings, you're a danger to his flying gas station. Since you ARE a CEA I'll call you a blasphemer and have you excommunicated. Turn in your frat cub card, aviator glasses, and AFI waiver for rolling up your sleeves.

Seriously though, nice to see a flyer that understands what those AE folks do. They've kept a few of my friends alive. The aircrew themselves did great jobs as well. I'm sure its a little different than flying pallets of MREs around.

They do a hell of a job.....not arguing that fact.

strataboomer
04-18-2013, 11:53 PM
I've all but given up chasing these clowns down and trying to get them to do the right thing... I could spend all day doing it. The RPA guys and their "sortie count" and "flying hours" patches. REALLY?!? The attitude is so prevelant that I have talked to cops and maintainers with patches. Hell I've even seen a wing commander has been seen rocking a morale patch, so how do you get the Airmen to do the right thing? I really just want to go down to the boardwalk alterations shop, buy up 3-4 obnoxious patches and slap them on my velcro and walk around looking like a fool, just to see who says something. I'm guessing no one...



They are OCP "flight suits"



This reminded my of a boom I once knew who actually though so much of himself that he sported a hideously gaudy bracelet of his "wings." You just can't make this shit up... seriously?

I think I knew that guy as well.....what base? For the record flying hour patches are authorized. I am not a fan of them....

70gto
04-19-2013, 12:11 AM
Well Loadie yes I have....hence what I said I am not taking anything away from them. Flew in and out of Bagram with those folk doing a hell of a job taking care of our heroes. But...yes the but....that does not make them crewmembers, just folks doing their job on a jet hat can also be done on the ground. Again, not taking any of their accomplishments away. They do a hell of job in shitty conditions.

In response to your mention of Vol 2...,so do Sensor Operators as well....but they are not crewmembers...they have their own AFSC but they have 0 hours in a airplane.
Are you referring to Aeromedical Evacuation Crew members or Critical Care Teams because they are two completely different things. CCATT are operational support flyers which augment an AE Team. AE are crew members as they are responsible for the interaction of medical equipment on the aircraft as well as configuring the aircraft for patient use. AE teams earn flight pay, attend a formal training unit at WPAFB, and earn a "universal qualification" on multiple aircraft.

JD2780
04-19-2013, 02:05 AM
Well Loadie yes I have....hence what I said I am not taking anything away from them. Flew in and out of Bagram with those folk doing a hell of a job taking care of our heroes. But...yes the but....that does not make them crewmembers, just folks doing their job on a jet hat can also be done on the ground. Again, not taking any of their accomplishments away. They do a hell of job in shitty conditions.

In response to your mention of Vol 2...,so do Sensor Operators as well....but they are not crewmembers...they have their own AFSC but they have 0 hours in a airplane.

Zero hours yet have wings and are aviators.

CJSmith
04-19-2013, 03:50 AM
But...yes the but....that does not make them crewmembers, just folks doing their job on a jet hat can also be done on the ground. Again, not taking any of their accomplishments away. They do a hell of job in shitty conditions.

Sigh. It seems like everybody else in here gets it except for you. AE folks receive a checkride and get a form 8 that is filed in their FEF/PEX and also are subjected to no-notice evals just like everybody else that wears wings. They go through a FTU and receive AFSC specific training to learn how to do their job in the air, not on the ground. These folks are now more than qualified because they can do their job on the ground AND in the air. Without them qualified as aircrew members we would not have the aeromed lift we have today and many more people would have died. Stop being a prick and get over yourself and just call them for what they are, crewmembers. Why is that so hard? Better yet, go tell the kid that got his legs blown off and had to be urgently evac'd to Germany in order to survive that those folks aren't crewmembers. I think he'll say something differently.

CrustySMSgt
04-19-2013, 08:58 AM
I think I knew that guy as well.....what base? For the record flying hour patches are authorized. I am not a fan of them....

Travis

"official" AMC flying out additions to patches are authorized... stupid little rectangular patches on OCPs are not.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-19-2013, 02:51 PM
The only morale patch that I saw that I ever thought was funny was an aircrew name tape with “Son of a Bitch” as the name.

A tragically true story about the demise of the pilot who wore that name tape, he overloaded his Piper Cub and crashed into some trees shortly after takeoff.

What did he overload his plane with? He only had two passengers, a very hot lady and her morbidly obese friend.

It sounds insensitive telling that story but that’s how he died.

Anyway, most morale patches are about as dumb as knock-knock jokes.

Tak
04-19-2013, 02:56 PM
Any attempt to instill morale usually falls flat.
Normally its self created out of many aspects
Leaders do not grasp.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 02:58 PM
Any attempt to instill morale usually falls flat.
Normally its self created out of many aspects
Leaders do not grasp.

Wrong!!! Morale is created by events that bring people together who usually wouldn't hang out. Fun runs, cook-outs, base beautification, etc, have always made me feel like a team player. I always go home in a better mood and look forward to coming back to work the next day. If it wasn't for "leadership" telling me that I'm having fun how could I know? If it wasn't "leadership" telling me how important my job is how could I possibly know?

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 03:09 PM
Your bullshit becomes you.

Thank you...

Madeline Ashton: "Ernest... my ass! I can see MY ASS!"

Tak
04-19-2013, 03:09 PM
Wrong!!! Morale is created by events that bring people together who usually wouldn't hang out. Fun runs, cook-outs, base beautification, etc, have always made me feel like a team player. I always go home in a better mood and look forward to coming back to work the next day. If it wasn't for "leadership" telling me that I'm having fun how could I know? If it wasn't "leadership" telling me how important my job is how could I possibly know?

Your bullshit becomes you.

Turbo
06-05-2013, 09:01 PM
That being said....that also goes for the loads and booms.....as we are doing our job keeping people alive...wait here they come NO boots on flt suit wrapped around there waist walking from one end of the AC to the other in front of Pacs and Pts.....
So we go to Flight school ---go to SERE...log hrs get crew rest pre and post and are able to get Air Medals for our flying......Whatever!!!!