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View Full Version : For those who repeatedly fail their PT test



jondstewart
04-15-2013, 08:04 PM
Back in the winter of 2008, I had a troop that failed his PT test some 5 times in a row over a 1-2 year period. Now, I think if he couldn't/wouldn't pass his test that the commander certainly has the authority to discharge him. But this troop of mine lived in base housing and in Alaska at Elmendorf AFB. After he failed it for the last time, he was given 72 hours to collect his stuff and get the hell off the base. Thrown on to the streets with no house or job lined up. And in Alaska thousands of miles from home, which was Chicago for him. Shouldn't the commander have at least given him a ticket home via SATO travel and let him arrange with TMO to get his stuff out of base housing to be shipped back?

Do commanders still have the right to do this, no matter where the location is? I think it's really shitty he was made to move off base within 3 days with no job or prospects AND in Alaska!

SomeRandomGuy
04-15-2013, 08:16 PM
Back in the winter of 2008, I had a troop that failed his PT test some 5 times in a row over a 1-2 year period. Now, I think if he couldn't/wouldn't pass his test that the commander certainly has the authority to discharge him. But this troop of mine lived in base housing and in Alaska at Elmendorf AFB. After he failed it for the last time, he was given 72 hours to collect his stuff and get the hell off the base. Thrown on to the streets with no house or job lined up. And in Alaska thousands of miles from home, which was Chicago for him. Shouldn't the commander have at least given him a ticket home via SATO travel and let him arrange with TMO to get his stuff out of base housing to be shipped back?

Do commanders still have the right to do this, no matter where the location is? I think it's really shitty he was made to move off base within 3 days with no job or prospects AND in Alaska!

Im throwing up the BS flag here. If you read the AFI on administrative seperations you would know that a PT discharge is considered an honorable discharge unless there are other circumstances. You would also know that anyone with over 6 years of service is also entitled to 1/2 seperation pay. You would also know that anyone with an honorable discharge is entitled to full travel entitlements (including TMO move) to their home of record. While I am sure it is possible to separate someone in 3 days (though very difficult) you could not take away all entitlements. Honestly for most discharges the Amn is allowed longer than 3 days just to appeal. ADC would have been all over a case like you mentioned. This never happened.

MedWeenie
04-15-2013, 08:17 PM
I'm throwing the flag as well. Did not happen.

SomeRandomGuy
04-15-2013, 08:31 PM
I'm throwing the flag as well. Did not happen.

Just for the Hell of it:

From AFI 36-208 (page 96)

5.65. Failure in the Fitness Program. Airmen who do not meet fitness standards in AFI 10-248, Fitness Program, (formerly AFIs 40-501 and 40-502) may be discharged when the failure in the fitness program resulted from a cause which was within their control. Follow the procedures for failure in the fitness program according to AFI 10-248 before starting action to discharge. Make sure the case file shows the record of those actions. NOTE: Administrative actions commenced on or before 31 Dec 03 may be executed to completion, using this paragraph and separation program designator (SPD) codes JCR, GCR, and HCR. Members who were notified in writing on or after 1 Jan 04 (as specified in AFI 10-248) IAW this directive will be separated using SPD codes JFT, GFT and HFT and paragraph 5.26.6.

From AFI 10-248 (page 29)

8.2.6. Administrative Separation. Commanders will make a discharge or retention recommendation
to the Installation Commander when an individual remains in the poor fitness category for a continuous
12-month period or receives four poor fitness assessments in a 24-month period. Commanders
follow procedures in AFI 36-3206, Administrative Discharge Procedures for Commissioned Officers,
or AFI 36-3208, Administrative Separation of Airmen.

Also from AFI 32-3608 (page 30)

Table 1.3. Reasons and Authority for Involuntary Separation.

Reason Authorizing Paragraph Characterization of Discharge
14. Failure in the Fitness Program 5.65. Honorable or entry-level separation.

Tak
04-15-2013, 08:40 PM
Once civilian they're owed nothing for not hacking it.

Case in post, had a troop get out when pregnant, my smsgt looked me square in
Eyes and said "why the Fuck should we have a going away for a quitter?!?"

JD2780
04-15-2013, 08:42 PM
Once civilian they're owed nothing for not hacking it.

Case in post, had a troop get out when pregnant, my smsgt looked me square in
Eyes and said "why the Fuck should we have a going away for a quitter?!?"


Because retirees are quitters also yet we go through the hoops for their fat asses.

giggawatt
04-15-2013, 08:57 PM
I want to be leaf!

Tak
04-15-2013, 08:58 PM
Because retirees are quitters also yet we go through the hoops for their fat asses.

Exactly, when a MSgt retires at 20 for himself rather
Than give the man 24, he's a fat Ass quitter.

JD2780
04-15-2013, 09:01 PM
Exactly, when a MSgt retires at 20 for himself rather
Than give the man 24, he's a fat Ass quitter.

Exactly, no ceremony, no special medal.

Tak
04-15-2013, 09:06 PM
Exactly, no ceremony, no special medal.

Ceremony is not official, its ceremonial.
Medial is same as others, with different words on end.

jondstewart
04-15-2013, 09:13 PM
Im throwing up the BS flag here. If you read the AFI on administrative seperations you would know that a PT discharge is considered an honorable discharge unless there are other circumstances. You would also know that anyone with over 6 years of service is also entitled to 1/2 seperation pay. You would also know that anyone with an honorable discharge is entitled to full travel entitlements (including TMO move) to their home of record. While I am sure it is possible to separate someone in 3 days (though very difficult) you could not take away all entitlements. Honestly for most discharges the Amn is allowed longer than 3 days just to appeal. ADC would have been all over a case like you mentioned. This never happened.

I sure hope you are right! Because if what I mentioned really happened to my troop, the commander could have had his ass given to him! This troop had about 6-7 years in too and was a Senior Airman! Holy crap, I need to find a way to contact him and see if he could go back and get the entitlements he needed.

But yes, he really was thrown off the base! I was his escort to make sure he had everything done in 3 days! He did get an apartment for himself and his son, but that's all I knew. I don't know if he ever got a job. Best I can say is he just abandoned the place and his family sent him money to come home

Quixotic
04-15-2013, 09:33 PM
If this is true, one has to wonder what else was going on, besides multiple PT failures...

jondstewart
04-15-2013, 10:48 PM
If this is true, one has to wonder what else was going on, besides multiple PT failures...

Nope, nothing! He just had a reputation as fat and lazy to many. His EPR's were 4's, except his last that was a referral 3. So, can I move forward and contact this guy to see that he gets his man!

CrustySMSgt
04-16-2013, 07:01 AM
I'd switch to a different dealer... you got a bad batch of whatever you're smoking and it caused you to have a bad trip.

BOSS302
04-16-2013, 09:21 AM
I sure hope you are right! Because if what I mentioned really happened to my troop, the commander could have had his ass given to him! This troop had about 6-7 years in too and was a Senior Airman! Holy crap, I need to find a way to contact him and see if he could go back and get the entitlements he needed.

But yes, he really was thrown off the base! I was his escort to make sure he had everything done in 3 days! He did get an apartment for himself and his son, but that's all I knew. I don't know if he ever got a job. Best I can say is he just abandoned the place and his family sent him money to come home

Nope. Did not happen. This airman was never thrown off base. This airman was never forced to be off installation within 72 hours. This airman did not lose his entitlements. You did not escort anyone off base and you did not ensure an airman had everything done in three days. Nothing was abandoned. This is a BS story.

What is wrong with you?

CrustySMSgt
04-16-2013, 01:44 PM
All right, I tried to go back & edit my post or add another reply, but this PoS website was still wigging out and wouldnt' let me.

Per the JFTR, even a court martialed Airman should be authorized HHG shipment to HOR and travel... especially from an OCONUS assignment, so even if there was more to the story and it wasn't just a PT issue, they aren't going to kick a guy out the gate with a pile of boxes w/i 72 hours.

SomeRandomGuy
04-16-2013, 01:49 PM
All right, I tried to go back & edit my post or add another reply, but this PoS website was still wigging out and wouldnt' let me.

Per the JFTR, even a court martialed Airman should be authorized HHG shipment to HOR and travel... especially from an OCONUS assignment, so even if there was more to the story and it wasn't just a PT issue, they aren't going to kick a guy out the gate with a pile of boxes w/i 72 hours.

I think I know what the problem was. If you read a few posts above you can see that if this story is true (which it is not) the original poster was supposed to escort the person around to outprocess. Maybe the OP actually believed this poor Airman's sob story and did not bother to take him/her to TMO or finance to get an entitlement briefing. You are correct though that even a courtmartialed Amn gets a TMO move and the least expensive travel method home. For an Amn in the CONUS they get up to the cost of a bus ticket (greyhound). For an Amn overseas they get the cheapest flight avaliable back to their home of record.

imported_CLSE
04-16-2013, 04:32 PM
Im throwing up the BS flag here. If you read the AFI on administrative seperations you would know that a PT discharge is considered an honorable discharge unless there are other circumstances. You would also know that anyone with over 6 years of service is also entitled to 1/2 seperation pay. You would also know that anyone with an honorable discharge is entitled to full travel entitlements (including TMO move) to their home of record. While I am sure it is possible to separate someone in 3 days (though very difficult) you could not take away all entitlements. Honestly for most discharges the Amn is allowed longer than 3 days just to appeal. ADC would have been all over a case like you mentioned. This never happened.

One the one hand, per the AFI on separations (unless it was changed in the last year or so), admin discharge for PT failures is not eligible for any separation pay.

On the other hand, as others have mentioned, the Air Force has to transport the individual and their goods back to their home of record.

SomeRandomGuy
04-16-2013, 04:52 PM
One the one hand, per the AFI on separations (unless it was changed in the last year or so), admin discharge for PT failures is not eligible for any separation pay.

On the other hand, as others have mentioned, the Air Force has to transport the individual and their goods back to their home of record.

Oops! I am wrong about the separation pay. Table 9.1 of AFI 36-3208 covers payments authorized. Rule 8 says separation for failure in PT program gets no separation pay. The second part is correct though. JFTR would still authorize full travel and household goods entitlements.

Tak
04-16-2013, 06:04 PM
Good thing no punishment for failing pt test...

CrustySMSgt
04-17-2013, 08:30 AM
Good thing no punishment for failing pt test...

administrative actions ≠ punishment

imported_SergeantJack
04-17-2013, 08:22 PM
administrative actions ≠ punishment

I hope you're joking. Because...well, I hope you're joking.

Tak
04-17-2013, 08:26 PM
administrative actions ≠ punishment

Dude you're being a neo-maxi-zoom-dweebie.