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View Full Version : Judge rules illegal imcompetent to stand trial



garhkal
04-12-2013, 11:05 PM
The illegal immigrant who was allegedly drunk driving when police say he hit and dragged a Milford man to his death has been ruled incompetent to stand trial, MyFoxBoston.com reported.

Judge Janet Kinton-Walker says Nicolas Guaman's "unique cultural background" and language barrier means that he doesn't understand the court process, the report said. The court also said that he lacks the ability to consult with his attorney properly.

Wow.. so even though he has a court appointed interpreter, AND he supposedly has had run ins with the courts in the past, his trial for DUI and vehicular manslaughter is held up??
What the F is this judge smoking???

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/11/massachusetts-judge-rules-illegal-immigrant-incompetent-to-stand-trial/

Banned
04-16-2013, 04:52 AM
The judge ordered Guaman's attorney to find an interpreter and educate him on the court process.

Makes sense to me. Its not a fair trial if the defendant has no idea what's going on.

He's not walking free... this just means that they need an interpreter (which one would THINK somebody would have thought of already before going to trial)

sandsjames
04-16-2013, 03:36 PM
The illegal immigrant who was allegedly drunk driving when police say he hit and dragged a Milford man to his death has been ruled incompetent to stand trial, MyFoxBoston.com reported.

Judge Janet Kinton-Walker says Nicolas Guaman's "unique cultural background" and language barrier means that he doesn't understand the court process, the report said. The court also said that he lacks the ability to consult with his attorney properly.

Wow.. so even though he has a court appointed interpreter, AND he supposedly has had run ins with the courts in the past, his trial for DUI and vehicular manslaughter is held up??
What the F is this judge smoking???

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/11/massachusetts-judge-rules-illegal-immigrant-incompetent-to-stand-trial/

You forget that illegals don't have to adhere to our laws but do receive protections of the constitution. Quiero abogado!

Pullinteeth
04-16-2013, 03:44 PM
Makes sense to me. Its not a fair trial if the defendant has no idea what's going on.

He's not walking free... this just means that they need an interpreter (which one would THINK somebody would have thought of already before going to trial)

The article didn't make sense...if he was ruled incompetent to stand trial, that generally means he wouldn't stand trial. That doesn't seem to be what happened. What seems to have acually happened was the judge delayed the trial until they could find an interpreter. What also doesn't make sense is how the heck does someone have a unique language?

Banned
04-16-2013, 05:47 PM
You forget that illegals don't have to adhere to our laws but do receive protections of the constitution. Quiero abogado!

You do realize of course that you are protected by the Constitution regardless of whether you follow the law... right?


The article didn't make sense...if he was ruled incompetent to stand trial, that generally means he wouldn't stand trial. That doesn't seem to be what happened. What seems to have acually happened was the judge delayed the trial until they could find an interpreter. What also doesn't make sense is how the heck does someone have a unique language?

Sounds like an error in fact on the part of Fox. The judge simply delayed the trial, which the reporter interpreted to mean "incompetent to stand trial", which I THINK would be false if if the only issue was the absence of an interpreter.

garhkal
04-16-2013, 06:04 PM
Both the news report and the tv spot on this mentioned he has been to court several times in the past though, with no issues in regards to interpreters/uniqueness of culture etc. So why was it all of suddenly important now?

JD2780
04-16-2013, 06:12 PM
Both the news report and the tv spot on this mentioned he has been to court several times in the past though, with no issues in regards to interpreters/uniqueness of culture etc. So why was it all of suddenly important now?

Because he is no longer an illegal alien but an documented immigrant. Is massoftwoshits. That's the legal system there for you. Look at Obamas moronic uncle. Not tying to Obama, that's just how people know him.

sandsjames
04-16-2013, 06:52 PM
You do realize of course that you are protected by the Constitution regardless of whether you follow the law... right?





Yes, but I'm also required to follow the law or face the consequences.

Banned
04-18-2013, 08:45 PM
Yes, but I'm also required to follow the law or face the consequences.

You do realize that when you face the consequences you're still protected by the Constitution, right?

efmbman
04-18-2013, 11:30 PM
There is a lot more to this story...

1) The accused did not have a license, and this should be obvious since even a moderate knowledge of the English language should be required to get a license to drive. This makes sense considering he lacks enough knowledge of English that he requires an interpreter.

2) There was a witness, riding in the pickup with the accused. This witness has since fled the US and returned to his home country of Ecuador after cutting off the ankle monitor the ICE had put on him.

3) The truck the accused was driving belongs to the brother of the accused. He was initially charge with a misdemeanor charge of allowing someone without a license to operate a motor vehicle. That charge has since been dropped in exchange for the brother being deposed in this case.

So much of this makes no sense at all, and in my opinion is just another example of how messed up the immigration system is. If this person is now a documented immigrant (I cannot find a source on that) then one would think that he should, by now, have enough comprehension of our language to be deemed competent to stand trial. I will never understand this.

Measure Man
04-18-2013, 11:52 PM
The article didn't make sense...if he was ruled incompetent to stand trial, that generally means he wouldn't stand trial.

No, it doesn't. Don't confuse "incompetent to stand trial" with "not guilty by insanity"....two different things. "Incompetent to stand trial" is very often a temporary situation...i.e the suspect is in a coma, otherwise hospitalized, etc. It could also be a permenent incompetency too, though, yes. IN this case, it appears he was ruled temporarily incompetent until he can be brought up to speed on what's going on, etc. Just a defense delay tactic, or appeal hope, so the judge granted it to avoid the appeal probably....he's still gonna stand trial.


That doesn't seem to be what happened. What seems to have acually happened was the judge delayed the trial until they could find an interpreter. What also doesn't make sense is how the heck does someone have a unique language?

Yeah, kind of bullshit, really.



Sounds like an error in fact on the part of Fox. The judge simply delayed the trial, which the reporter interpreted to mean "incompetent to stand trial", which I THINK would be false if if the only issue was the absence of an interpreter.

No, he has indeed been ruled incompetent to stand trial...at this time. But, not permanently.


You forget that illegals don't have to adhere to our laws but do receive protections of the constitution. Quiero abogado!

Well, they do have to adhere to our laws, of course, which is why this guy is on trial.

Would you rather his god-granted rights are not protected while he is in the custody of the US govt.?



There is a lot more to this story...

1) The accused did not have a license, and this should be obvious since even a moderate knowledge of the English language should be required to get a license to drive.

I think you only need enough English to understand the street signs.

That's about all the German I know, too, and I got a license there.


This makes sense considering he lacks enough knowledge of English that he requires an interpreter.

Being able to understand what is going on in a legal proceeding, and being able to drive and two completely different things...hell a lot of people who speak perfect English get confused in court.


2) There was a witness, riding in the pickup with the accused. This witness has since fled the US and returned to his home country of Ecuador after cutting off the ankle monitor the ICE had put on him.

Okay...what relevancy is that?


3) The truck the accused was driving belongs to the brother of the accused. He was initially charge with a misdemeanor charge of allowing someone without a license to operate a motor vehicle. That charge has since been dropped in exchange for the brother being deposed in this case.

Interesting...but minor point.


So much of this makes no sense at all, and in my opinion is just another example of how messed up the immigration system is. If this person is now a documented immigrant (I cannot find a source on that) then one would think that he should, by now, have enough comprehension of our language to be deemed competent to stand trial. I will never understand this.

This is a minor stall tactic...nothing more. This is basically the equivalent of after being read your rights, the cop asks you if you understand what he just read to you...and you say "no" It's not gonna get you out of anything, but they might have to explain them differently or whatever', or discount what you say before appearing before a judge with representation. Honestly, I don't know exactly what happens if you answer 'no'.

efmbman
04-19-2013, 12:13 AM
I think you only need enough English to understand the street signs.

That's about all the German I know, too, and I got a license there.

I see what you're trying to do, but it's not the same thing. We are allowed to get a drivers license in Germany for passing a very basic written test and a sign comprehension test only because of the SOFA. The procedure a German endures to get a license is much more complicated and expensive and lasts about a year from what I understand.

In this case, the driver (the accused) was not licensed and look what happened. It baffles me that there are states considering laws that would allow illegal immigrants to obtain a drivers license. Hell in California, there was a case about a illegal immigrant trying to take the bar exam to become a lawyer... a lawyer! He would be licensed to practice law in a this country... the same country in which he is an illegal immigrant.

I know this is basically a hit and run + vehicular manslaughter (I doubt he will get 2nd degree murder in Massachusetts), but it symbolizes more to me, that's all. Sure I am ranting about something over which I have no control, but who among us does not do that from time to time?

garhkal
04-19-2013, 05:09 AM
So much of this makes no sense at all, and in my opinion is just another example of how messed up the immigration system is. If this person is now a documented immigrant (I cannot find a source on that) then one would think that he should, by now, have enough comprehension of our language to be deemed competent to stand trial. I will never understand this.

Well, being that speaking or reading english is not a requirement for citizenship it seems these days, why do you expect him to be fluent. Heck we have people here for 30+ years who ARE citizens who still (so it seems) don't speak a lick of english (mostly asians it seems, specially koreans and vietnameese)..


In this case, the driver (the accused) was not licensed and look what happened. It baffles me that there are states considering laws that would allow illegal immigrants to obtain a drivers license. Hell in California, there was a case about a illegal immigrant trying to take the bar exam to become a lawyer... a lawyer! He would be licensed to practice law in a this country... the same country in which he is an illegal immigrant.

Yea.. i would love to have those states hit by the justice dept the same as they hit the states like AZ and others who wanted to get harsher on illegals..