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View Full Version : Unionized disgruntlement melodrama at Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst



MajesticThunder
04-06-2013, 06:26 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20130405_Tension_rising_at_Joint_Base_McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst.html

“The officer added that only a handful of grievances was filed each year while he worked at Fort Dix under the Army’s control.”

WTF - Army brass kinder and gentler on their civilians than AF? :kiss

Thunderhorse19
04-06-2013, 06:50 PM
The same protests are going on at Offutt AFB. Less than 5% of Offutt's 2,800 civilians are members of the AFGE. Now they are inflating the numbers to 3,800, according to the Omaha World-Herald. The average salary for civilians at Offutt is $72,000, but the average salary in the private sector of Nebraska is only $42,000. I have not heard of any of their 300 SES's, GS15's or GS14's offering any advice or suggestions. It's very hard to sympathize with the perfumed prince grade creepers working at Offutt.

Robert F. Dorr
04-06-2013, 07:09 PM
Maybe part of the disgruntlement is caused by the obstacle of pronouncing the base's name.

MAJOR MAJOR: Where are you stationed?

AIRMAN ARMANN: You mean at what base?

MAJOR MAJOR: No, I mean under which fire hydrant? Of course I mean at what base.

JOE BONHAM: I don't have anything to add but I have to get another post in, here.

AIRMAN ARMANN: I would love to tell you, major, but the truth is, I keep forgetting what order the words come in.

OtisRNeedleman
04-06-2013, 10:16 PM
I just don't get it. During the last assignment at DLI, I worked in a highly unionized environment. Was told that most of my fellow associate deans had had union grievences filed against them. I worked as an associate dean in three different schools and never had a grievance filed against me, even though there were times when I needed to address/help address some tough issues with faculty. I just treated everyone with courtesy and respect, even when I didn't agree with them. It's less work and overall costs much less to treat people properly, even when you have to pass on bad news.

KellyinAvon
04-06-2013, 11:13 PM
So, they're bitchin about getting OT being cut? We're talkin bout, OT. Not salary, OT?

RobotChicken
04-06-2013, 11:58 PM
GS-11,civilian-airman-major-warrior-retired-airman on strike? Need to 'cut' something off for sure.

tiredretiredE7
04-07-2013, 01:36 AM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20130405_Tension_rising_at_Joint_Base_McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst.html

“The officer added that only a handful of grievances was filed each year while he worked at Fort Dix under the Army’s control.”

WTF - Army brass kinder and gentler on their civilians than AF? :kiss

No this is another example of incompetent AF management just like the Minot to Barksdale nuke incident, the tanker lease program, the F35 program. This goes to directly prove the Army is superior to the AF in not only enlisted leadership but branch level management as well.

RobotChicken
04-07-2013, 02:06 AM
:hat 'Leadership' answers to no one in a 'PC world'. :deadhorse

technomage1
04-07-2013, 07:54 AM
Overtime isn't an entitlement. While it stinks losing it, suck it up, buttercup.

oregonbean
04-07-2013, 12:48 PM
There is a lot more to this story, and a completely different point of view. I started working in civilian personnel at JBMDL about a year after joint basing. I didn't work in employee relations, but was in the same general office. As soon as management shifted from the Army to AF, they started complaining. About everything. To call some of the grievances mundane is an understatement; it was like they were sitting(or I guess standing since the chairs were removed from their breakroom) around going through their union contract line by line looking for things to gripe about.

An acquaintance of my husband's had a grievance filed against him his first day on the job, because one of the civilian officers did not like the new schedule or the fact that he was being supervised by an AF security forces officer. It was insanely asinine.

On a personal level, I had a very unpleasant interaction with one of these civilian gate guards--it was his first week, and he thought my inspection sticker was illegal(it was not and I tried to tell him)--he tried to tell me I could go to jail for falsifying a government document, I could lose my driving privileges, have to pay a huge fine, be taken down to the station in the back of a squad car, my husband could get in big trouble, but since he was in a forgiving mood, he would allow me 24 hours to "take care of it"--it was such a joke. Had my husband not been deployed at the time, it would have turned into a very ugly incident(he used to be a security forces officer).

On an entirely different level, when you have union negotiators that just want to fight every little thing the other side puts on the table, it's impossible to reach any sort of compromise. I thought one of our labor relations employees was going to have a stroke trying to get through meetings with the union reps. I have nothing against unions--my Dad was a union electrician for over 20 years. But, when the union reps and the people in the union feel that they should get whatever they want and are unwilling to compromise, it's completely counterproductive.

It sounds like the atmosphere has deteriorated even more since I was there, which is hard to believe.

Outback 1982
04-07-2013, 03:42 PM
Doubtful! A grievance can only be filed against a specific violation in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, commonly known as the CBA. If it was his/her first day on the job, it was left over from the previous exempt manager. Shifts and supervision are clearly negotiated in the CBA. Unless you are trying to call in an employee on a different shift, i.e. first to second or third without notice, a shift grievance is unlikely. A Smart Manager will not tolerate or even hear a complaint/grievance unless the Union Employee can cite a specific article in the CBA. It will never extend past step one in the process. Employee shifts and who they report to are an issue of seniority and pay and rarely a subject of a grievance. They will next to never file a complaint against another employee. Kind of like being branded a scab. A Union Rat is akin to a DUI Child Molester in a school zone. You can expect payback in spades!!

Having said that, I've seen labor unions blossom, bloom and the crush the very industry they sought to control. Does Michelin ring a bell? A Vote for organized labor in 2005 pushed manufacturing to Mexico. I'm sure everyone heard of Twinkie....
I've never met a Union employee that would vote for a strike after walking the picket line. The $125 a month strike allowance doesn't go very far. Unions are about More pay and control for less work and responsibility.

I could go on and on but I'm no longer in that game, I will never again work the line or be a manager of a Union Work Force, Frankly it's just not worth it!!.

CORNELIUSSEON
04-16-2013, 11:17 PM
Doubtful! A grievance can only be filed against a specific violation in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, commonly known as the CBA. If it was his/her first day on the job, it was left over from the previous exempt manager. Shifts and supervision are clearly negotiated in the CBA. Unless you are trying to call in an employee on a different shift, i.e. first to second or third without notice, a shift grievance is unlikely. A Smart Manager will not tolerate or even hear a complaint/grievance unless the Union Employee can cite a specific article in the CBA. It will never extend past step one in the process. Employee shifts and who they report to are an issue of seniority and pay and rarely a subject of a grievance. They will next to never file a complaint against another employee. Kind of like being branded a scab. A Union Rat is akin to a DUI Child Molester in a school zone. You can expect payback in spades!!

Having said that, I've seen labor unions blossom, bloom and the crush the very industry they sought to control. Does Michelin ring a bell? A Vote for organized labor in 2005 pushed manufacturing to Mexico. I'm sure everyone heard of Twinkie....
I've never met a Union employee that would vote for a strike after walking the picket line. The $125 a month strike allowance doesn't go very far. Unions are about More pay and control for less work and responsibility.

I could go on and on but I'm no longer in that game, I will never again work the line or be a manager of a Union Work Force, Frankly it's just not worth it!!.

You are talking to a retired Union Employee who voted for a strike, walked the Picket Line, and survived afterwards. In my National Guard days, I was a Station Agent for the MTA in New York for 28 years, serving as an Elected Union Officer for 20 of those 28 Years (TWU Convention Delegate, Station Agent shop Steward, Station Agent Recording Secretary, and Station Agent Vice Chairman. As a Retiree, I'm now a Vice Chairman Emeritus. Unlike the union you were a member of, the Transport Workers' Union isn't about trading more pay for less work. Indeed, the fight for us has been to maintain the work force we have, by trading obsolete tasks for modern tasks as necessary. It has been Management who has wanted to reduce our numbers by eliminating work sites over an extended period of time. When I started, we had 4,215 Station Agents, and the numbers were down by 2,000 by the time I retired, and NO, the jobs weren't reduced by firing anyone. When an Agent Retired, his Seniority Position was filled from below, his moving up brought along everyone below him,and the empty position at the bottom was left empty. Now, WHY did they do things that way? because we were being replaced by Automation.

As for the grievance procedure, I find it hard to believe that your Union would actually agree to the structure you talk about. In the TWU, Step One is primarily automatic: The Union is informed of all Write-ups, and an Oficer represents the Member at any and all hearings. If the member doesn't prevail, then appeal to Step Two is the only alternative. Likewise, Step Two has the same automatic language, with Arbitration the final step. Management and the Union each pay the Arbitrator 50% of his agreed fee, and New York State Labor Law require arbitrators to be licensed by the State, so neutrality is assured. From that point, the fate of the Member is up to the Arbitrator. Oh, and to make sure that our Members can cite Chapter and Verse, they are issued a copy of the CBA as part of their intake, followed by any changes negotiated at Contract Renewal Time.

As for Rats, there is no profit for a rat since today's "friendly" Supervisor or Manager can be tomorrow's "Knife In The Back", so we maintain a healthy distance from them.

TJMAC77SP
04-17-2013, 12:12 PM
You are talking to a retired Union Employee who voted for a strike, walked the Picket Line, and survived afterwards. In my National Guard days, I was a Station Agent for the MTA in New York for 28 years, serving as an Elected Union Officer for 20 of those 28 Years (TWU Convention Delegate, Station Agent shop Steward, Station Agent Recording Secretary, and Station Agent Vice Chairman. As a Retiree, I'm now a Vice Chairman Emeritus. Unlike the union you were a member of, the Transport Workers' Union isn't about trading more pay for less work. Indeed, the fight for us has been to maintain the work force we have, by trading obsolete tasks for modern tasks as necessary. It has been Management who has wanted to reduce our numbers by eliminating work sites over an extended period of time. When I started, we had 4,215 Station Agents, and the numbers were down by 2,000 by the time I retired, and NO, the jobs weren't reduced by firing anyone. When an Agent Retired, his Seniority Position was filled from below, his moving up brought along everyone below him,and the empty position at the bottom was left empty. Now, WHY did they do things that way? because we were being replaced by Automation.

As for the grievance procedure, I find it hard to believe that your Union would actually agree to the structure you talk about. In the TWU, Step One is primarily automatic: The Union is informed of all Write-ups, and an Oficer represents the Member at any and all hearings. If the member doesn't prevail, then appeal to Step Two is the only alternative. Likewise, Step Two has the same automatic language, with Arbitration the final step. Management and the Union each pay the Arbitrator 50% of his agreed fee, and New York State Labor Law require arbitrators to be licensed by the State, so neutrality is assured. From that point, the fate of the Member is up to the Arbitrator. Oh, and to make sure that our Members can cite Chapter and Verse, they are issued a copy of the CBA as part of their intake, followed by any changes negotiated at Contract Renewal Time.

As for Rats, there is no profit for a rat since today's "friendly" Supervisor or Manager can be tomorrow's "Knife In The Back", so we maintain a healthy distance from them.

I am confused, not surprised, but confused nonetheless.

How does the ‘why’ in this statement make sense?

“When an Agent Retired, his Seniority Position was filled from below, his moving up brought along everyone below him,and the empty position at the bottom was left empty. Now, WHY did they do things that way? because we were being replaced by Automation.”

Why does the reason (automation) your ranks were being reduced justify inflating the salaries of those left employed? Particularly since it waters down the cost benefits of the investment in automation and reduces any fare breaks to the customers the system serves.

I bought Toyota because my house is odd numbered………………….

I don’t see the correlation.

wxjumper
04-17-2013, 07:50 PM
This all comes down to OT. They are pissed about not getting OT so are now starting a campaign to complain about everything. "ohh the Major held my shoulder too firm." I'm sure you can handle it mr. police officer.

RetC141BFCC
04-20-2013, 02:38 PM
Doubtful! A grievance can only be filed against a specific violation in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, commonly known as the CBA. If it was his/her first day on the job, it was left over from the previous exempt manager. Shifts and supervision are clearly negotiated in the CBA. Unless you are trying to call in an employee on a different shift, i.e. first to second or third without notice, a shift grievance is unlikely. A Smart Manager will not tolerate or even hear a complaint/grievance unless the Union Employee can cite a specific article in the CBA. It will never extend past step one in the process. Employee shifts and who they report to are an issue of seniority and pay and rarely a subject of a grievance. They will next to never file a complaint against another employee. Kind of like being branded a scab. A Union Rat is akin to a DUI Child Molester in a school zone. You can expect payback in spades!!

Having said that, I've seen labor unions blossom, bloom and the crush the very industry they sought to control. Does Michelin ring a bell? A Vote for organized labor in 2005 pushed manufacturing to Mexico. I'm sure everyone heard of Twinkie....
I've never met a Union employee that would vote for a strike after walking the picket line. The $125 a month strike allowance doesn't go very far. Unions are about More pay and control for less work and responsibility.

I could go on and on but I'm no longer in that game, I will never again work the line or be a manager of a Union Work Force, Frankly it's just not worth it!!.

Sorry I have to disagree with you on this one. I have been a Union Steward for the last seven years and the Vice President of my Local Lodge for the last two. We are not a small lodge we have over 1100 members. When our last contract was up the company first offer was a 25 percent cut in pay and benefits. This is a company that is making Hugh profits in the Airline Industry; it’s not about control now it’s about an honest wage for an honest day’s pay. The reason Michelin tires went to Mexico is called NAFTA. Michelin went with cheap labor. As far as the members going line by line thru the contact its called working to contact the company signed that contract they have to live with it. One question what kind of idiot would remove seats from a break room? Now if I was the union steward in that shop we would never have done one grievance for the seats. If there were 10 people working there I would have done 10 separate grievances. I have seen Airline mechanics do safety campaigns. Keep an eye on US Airways and there unfair labor practices. Do a Google search the mechanics there have asked to be relived from mediation. This is the first step before I strike. So it’s not always about the greedy union it’s about the greedy CEO trying to maximize profits on the backs of workers. When you get overtime pay or Holiday pay you can thank a Union all that became possible due to unions in America