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imported_SergeantJack
04-04-2013, 07:40 PM
40 days from today I will be paroled from the Air Force. To say that I can't wait is an understatement.

JD2780
04-04-2013, 08:01 PM
It's weird. I didnt even do 15 and its weird. Life certainly continues. Look at bruwin, tak, and all the other silverbacks around here.

FLAPS
04-04-2013, 10:16 PM
40 days from today I will be paroled from the Air Force. To say that I can't wait is an understatement.

Be a JROTC instructor, gov civilian or retiree volunteer at the base clinic. Just stay blue because it's the right thing to do!

JD2780
04-05-2013, 01:06 PM
Be a JROTC instructor, gov civilian or retiree volunteer at the base clinic. Just stay blue because it's the right thing to do!

Slap yourself for the last part of your statement. The rest it of it is cool.

imported_SergeantJack
04-05-2013, 03:33 PM
Be a JROTC instructor, gov civilian or retiree volunteer at the base clinic. Just stay blue because it's the right thing to do!

If Ronald Reagan himself rose from the grave and personally asked me to come back and serve alongside any component of the US Armed Forces, I would still say no.

Day one of retirement:
Uniforms -- burned.
All military manuals -- burned.
All plaques, certificates -- burned.
All military members -- phone-blocked.

Complete severance. I might still come in here, though.

DWWSWWD
04-05-2013, 03:35 PM
Be a JROTC instructor, gov civilian or retiree volunteer at the base clinic. Just stay blue because it's the right thing to do! Have you been paying attention? ROTC is not in Jack's future.

imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting
04-05-2013, 05:50 PM
If Ronald Reagan himself rose from the grave and personally asked me to come back and serve alongside any component of the US Armed Forces, I would still say no.

Day one of retirement:
Uniforms -- burned.
All military manuals -- burned.
All plaques, certificates -- burned.
All military members -- phone-blocked.

Complete severance. I might still come in here, though.



Been that fun, eh?

JD2780
04-05-2013, 08:16 PM
With the Ronald Reagan reference, I would guess you are at least in your 30s, since your moniker refers to you as an NCO, I am not sure I get it. It seems that the likelyhood is greater than not that you not only enlisted once but re-enlisted at least once so alluding to your service as a sentence to be completed just doesn't compute. I get that you are not a fan and if you didn't know what you were getting into, I get it but if you signed more than once...you kinda knew what you were in for.

I wish you the best.

The AF has been in sharp decline so I. Understand where he is coming from.

Pullinteeth
04-05-2013, 08:35 PM
40 days from today I will be paroled from the Air Force. To say that I can't wait is an understatement.


If Ronald Reagan himself rose from the grave and personally asked me to come back and serve alongside any component of the US Armed Forces, I would still say no.

Day one of retirement:
Uniforms -- burned.
All military manuals -- burned.
All plaques, certificates -- burned.
All military members -- phone-blocked.

Complete severance. I might still come in here, though.

With the Ronald Reagan reference, I would guess you are at least in your 30s, since your moniker refers to you as an NCO, I am not sure I get it. It seems that the likelyhood is greater than not that you not only enlisted once but re-enlisted at least once so alluding to your service as a sentence to be completed just doesn't compute. I get that you are not a fan and if you didn't know what you were getting into, I get it but if you signed more than once...you kinda knew what you were in for.

I wish you the best.

JD2780
04-05-2013, 08:41 PM
With the Ronald Reagan reference, I would guess you are at least in your 30s, since your moniker refers to you as an NCO, I am not sure I get it. It seems that the likelyhood is greater than not that you not only enlisted once but re-enlisted at least once so alluding to your service as a sentence to be completed just doesn't compute. I get that you are not a fan and if you didn't know what you were getting into, I get it but if you signed more than once...you kinda knew what you were in for.

I wish you the best.

The AF has been in sharp decline so I. Understand where he is coming from.

Pullinteeth
04-05-2013, 08:59 PM
Hate it when people give this response. I reenlisted 3 times and extended twice. I had some good times. I would never, in a million years, do 20 years again. By the time I realized I wasn't enjoying it any more it would have been stupid to get out because of retirement, so I've "sucked it up" for the last 7 or 8 years.

If I was 18 years old again, I'd get me a union job, have better benefits than I currently have, and would never have had to deal with the crap we deal with on a daily basis.

I can see where you are coming from and when I got out, I am quite certian I referred to it exactly how he did. My only qualm is that if you make a decision to say because you have put in XX years and want XX back, that is a decision you made. It is really just semantics. I get that a LOT of people are relieved when they punch out and that there is a lot out there that a lot of people are looking forward to... I just don't see it as a 20 year sentence when you get a chance every four to six years to bail... That's all.

sandsjames
04-05-2013, 09:05 PM
With the Ronald Reagan reference, I would guess you are at least in your 30s, since your moniker refers to you as an NCO, I am not sure I get it. It seems that the likelyhood is greater than not that you not only enlisted once but re-enlisted at least once so alluding to your service as a sentence to be completed just doesn't compute. I get that you are not a fan and if you didn't know what you were getting into, I get it but if you signed more than once...you kinda knew what you were in for.



Hate it when people give this response. I reenlisted 3 times and extended twice. I had some good times. I would never, in a million years, do 20 years again. By the time I realized I wasn't enjoying it any more it would have been stupid to get out because of retirement, so I've "sucked it up" for the last 7 or 8 years.

If I was 18 years old again, I'd get me a union job, have better benefits than I currently have, and would never have had to deal with the crap we deal with on a daily basis.

sandsjames
04-05-2013, 09:09 PM
I can see where you are coming from and when I got out, I am quite certian I referred to it exactly how he did. My only qualm is that if you make a decision to say because you have put in XX years and want XX back, that is a decision you made. It is really just semantics. I get that a LOT of people are relieved when they punch out and that there is a lot out there that a lot of people are looking forward to... I just don't see it as a 20 year sentence when you get a chance every four to six years to bail... That's all.

Loving that it shows your reply ahead of the actual post. You seem to be trumping everyone with the order of posts in this new system.

Anyway, you are correct. At every point in my career it has been my choice. I think it's probably been about an 8 year sentence, so I can't complain too much.

Pullinteeth
04-05-2013, 09:15 PM
Loving that it shows your reply ahead of the actual post. You seem to be trumping everyone with the order of posts in this new system.

Anyway, you are correct. At every point in my career it has been my choice. I think it's probably been about an 8 year sentence, so I can't complain too much.

Yepppers...I am psychotic...I know what you are GOING to say... Complain away... I do...

sandsjames
04-05-2013, 10:06 PM
Yepppers...I am psychotic...I know what you are GOING to say... Complain away... I do...

What's even better is the double posts where one is at, say, 12:48 and the other is at 1:20.

FLAPS
04-06-2013, 12:22 AM
If Ronald Reagan himself rose from the grave and personally asked me to come back and serve alongside any component of the US Armed Forces, I would still say no.

Day one of retirement:
Uniforms -- burned.
All military manuals -- burned.
All plaques, certificates -- burned.
All military members -- phone-blocked.

Complete severance. I might still come in here, though.

Well, at least you'll still be Facebook friends with your Shirt and CC....because it's the right thing to do.

efmbman
04-06-2013, 01:00 AM
If Ronald Reagan himself rose from the grave and personally asked me to come back and serve alongside any component of the US Armed Forces, I would still say no.

Day one of retirement:
Uniforms -- burned.
All military manuals -- burned.
All plaques, certificates -- burned.
All military members -- phone-blocked.

Complete severance. I might still come in here, though.

I hear ya - I felt the same way when I retired from the Army last year. A buddy / mentor talked me out of doing what are are planning. He told me to just stash all that crap away for a couple of years and revisit it then. There may be some nostalgia after all. Once you burn it and get rid of it, it's gone. Just my two cents.

OtisRNeedleman
04-06-2013, 01:16 AM
If Ronald Reagan himself rose from the grave and personally asked me to come back and serve alongside any component of the US Armed Forces, I would still say no.

Day one of retirement:
Uniforms -- burned.
All military manuals -- burned.
All plaques, certificates -- burned.
All military members -- phone-blocked.

Complete severance. I might still come in here, though.

Can see chucking out the military manuals, but not the plaques, certificates, and uniforms. Can't see phone-blocking military members. Anyway, they'll forget you once out the door.

Don't look at the plaques/certificates/uniform as symbols of your final, unhappy time in the AF. Look at them as tangible reminders of service to your country, things you can deservedly be proud of. The AF will be part of your life forever, even if only in the form of a retirement check and your benefits.

When you leave that last day, do not go out with an angry heart. Go with your head held high. You came to the AF with honor, you served in the AF with honor, and despite the efforts of some in your last unit towards you, you can leave active duty with honor.

And when you leave don't look back. This part of your life is over. Time for the rest of your life to begin.

Otis

Chief_KO
04-06-2013, 02:29 AM
Great post Otis!

DWWSWWD
04-06-2013, 03:15 AM
Yep. It is a great post. A reminder of when you exceeded standards. You failed to meet what the AF asks of you and now are a victim of the man. I don't get it, brother. The AF has provided very well for you and your family. You've travelled to some great places and made lifelong friends. Friends that you'll block because you got fat? I'm glad it worked out for you, Jack, i really am. But come on, man. Folks went to bat for you to get the retirement that you earned in probably your first 14 yrs of service. I don't suspect you've met standards since then.

OtisRNeedleman
04-06-2013, 05:01 AM
Great post Otis!

Thanks! Just wanted to help.

sandsjames
04-06-2013, 07:41 PM
Can see chucking out the military manuals, but not the plaques, certificates, and uniforms. Can't see phone-blocking military members. Anyway, they'll forget you once out the door.

Don't look at the plaques/certificates/uniform as symbols of your final, unhappy time in the AF. Look at them as tangible reminders of service to your country, things you can deservedly be proud of. The AF will be part of your life forever, even if only in the form of a retirement check and your benefits.

When you leave that last day, do not go out with an angry heart. Go with your head held high. You came to the AF with honor, you served in the AF with honor, and despite the efforts of some in your last unit towards you, you can leave active duty with honor.

And when you leave don't look back. This part of your life is over. Time for the rest of your life to begin.

Otis

I look as plaques and certificates given by the military as leaderships misconception of what troops mean when we say, during pretty much every survey, that what we want is "recognition" from the "leaders" for what we do. What we mean is we want to be appreciated and not treated like a child. What they interpret that as is that we want pieces of paper and wood saying "Great Job!!!"

That's why those things mean nothing and burning them is probably the most appropriate action.

sandsjames
04-06-2013, 08:06 PM
Folks went to bat for you to get the retirement that you earned in probably your first 14 yrs of service. I don't suspect you've met standards since then.

Probably because after that 14 year mark, the standards were changed.

tiredretiredE7
04-06-2013, 08:11 PM
40 days from today I will be paroled from the Air Force. To say that I can't wait is an understatement.

I have four words for you; North Korea=Stop Loss.

tiredretiredE7
04-06-2013, 08:15 PM
Yep. It is a great post. A reminder of when you exceeded standards. You failed to meet what the AF asks of you and now are a victim of the man. I don't get it, brother. The AF has provided very well for you and your family. You've travelled to some great places and made lifelong friends. Friends that you'll block because you got fat? I'm glad it worked out for you, Jack, i really am. But come on, man. Folks went to bat for you to get the retirement that you earned in probably your first 14 yrs of service. I don't suspect you've met standards since then.

This post really disappoints me. Have you forgotten what PT and assessments of physical fitness did for his first 14 years? A bike test that fat guys could pass with a cigarette and a cup of coffee and marathon runners would constantly fail. Not everyone was or is gifted in the realm of physical fitness. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

OtisRNeedleman
04-06-2013, 09:26 PM
I look as plaques and certificates given by the military as leaderships misconception of what troops mean when we say, during pretty much every survey, that what we want is "recognition" from the "leaders" for what we do. What we mean is we want to be appreciated and not treated like a child. What they interpret that as is that we want pieces of paper and wood saying "Great Job!!!"

That's why those things mean nothing and burning them is probably the most appropriate action.

Simply put, you are wrong about the plaques, certificates, coins, and other mementos.

I appreciate every plaque, certificate, etc., ever received. To be sure, I was recognized for my work on performance reports and medal citations, but the plaques weren't just from my various supervisors. They were also from the people I worked with, day in, day out, good times and tough times. We all chipped in for the plaques and mementos. So when I look at those things I see an awful lot of teammates' faces, and I remember. I'm sure when my teammates look at their various plaques they remember me.

And that's why the plaques, certificates, and mementos are worth keeping. It isn't because of the bosses, it's because of our teammates.

sandsjames
04-06-2013, 10:53 PM
I have four words for you; North Korea=Stop Loss.

Two words: Going postal

sandsjames
04-06-2013, 10:54 PM
I have four words for you; North Korea=Stop Loss.

Two words: Going postal

DWWSWWD
04-06-2013, 10:59 PM
Probably because after that 14 year mark, the standards were changed. You're right, SJ. Standards change all the time. When we re-enlist, we agree to uphold those standards the same as we did when we very first signed up. TR7, I can't stand a victim, I really can't. I'm big on personal responsibility. I don't understand why someone so scorned, would come here every day to share in all things Air Force and then bitch about it. Airmen do get a screwed sometimes, but usually not. Believe me, if an Airman isn't getting a fair shake or if I perceive someone trying to get someplace on the back of someone else, I will use all of my abilities to make it right.

sandsjames
04-06-2013, 11:00 PM
40 pizzas? That ain't your style! What happened to the "take a dump in their coffee pot" Machine666 we all came to expect?

Order 40 pizzas? Good schtick!

How about a comprimise? Order the 40 pizzas, eat them all, then take a dump in the coffee pot.

sandsjames
04-06-2013, 11:01 PM
40 pizzas? That ain't your style! What happened to the "take a dump in their coffee pot" Machine666 we all came to expect?

Order 40 pizzas? Good schtick!

How about a comprimise? Order the 40 pizzas, eat them all, then take a dump in the coffee pot.

MACHINE666
04-06-2013, 11:04 PM
40 days from today I will be paroled from the Air Force. To say that I can't wait is an understatement.

Congrats on a job well done. As a last act of defiance, order 40 pizzas and give them the name of the douchebag NCO or officer who gave you the most grief at your last assignment. Get the last laugh.

sandsjames
04-06-2013, 11:17 PM
Simply put, you are wrong about the plaques, certificates, coins, and other mementos.

I appreciate every plaque, certificate, etc., ever received. To be sure, I was recognized for my work on performance reports and medal citations, but the plaques weren't just from my various supervisors. They were also from the people I worked with, day in, day out, good times and tough times. We all chipped in for the plaques and mementos. So when I look at those things I see an awful lot of teammates' faces, and I remember. I'm sure when my teammates look at their various plaques they remember me.

And that's why the plaques, certificates, and mementos are worth keeping. It isn't because of the bosses, it's because of our teammates.

That's good. Some people need validation.

KellyinAvon
04-06-2013, 11:20 PM
Congrats on a job well done. As a last act of defiance, order 40 pizzas and give them the name of the douchebag NCO or officer who gave you the most grief at your last assignment. Get the last laugh.

40 pizzas? That ain't your style! What happened to the "take a dump in their coffee pot" Machine666 we all came to expect?

Order 40 pizzas? Good schtick!

sandsjames
04-07-2013, 12:26 AM
You're right, SJ. Standards change all the time. When we re-enlist, we agree to uphold those standards the same as we did when we very first signed up. TR7, I can't stand a victim, I really can't. I'm big on personal responsibility. I don't understand why someone so scorned, would come here every day to share in all things Air Force and then bitch about it. Airmen do get a screwed sometimes, but usually not. Believe me, if an Airman isn't getting a fair shake or if I perceive someone trying to get someplace on the back of someone else, I will use all of my abilities to make it right.

I just don't understand why you can't see his point of view, that's all. You should know, as well as anyone, that there are many, many people who don't enjoy being in the service. And, yes, it's a choice to stay. However, especially in an economy like we have right now, I'd rather grind my way through the last few years than to drop out and try to find something else. I don't have to like it. I don't have to love the Air Force. Do I have to meet the standards, whether new or not? Of course. But I can still dislike the changes and make a statement saying that I'd never do it again if given the choice.

OtisRNeedleman
04-07-2013, 10:20 PM
That's good. Some people need validation.

Don't see it as validation so much as it is pride in your teammates and your various outfits over the years.

You seem bitter about your service. Even without knowing everything, or anything you have done rest assured you have made a difference.

DWWSWWD
04-08-2013, 02:53 PM
People are sometimes surprised when I tell them that I don't care if they don't exceed standards. I don't really care why you joined or what motivates you. You are in it for you, the health care, the school benefits, whatever. If you don't have faith in leadership, that's OK with me. All you have to do is MEET the very minimum standards. If you do that, you will get your check and your Obama phone at 20yrs. What surprises me is that folks can't even agree to that. They want to be angry, in it for them and fail to meet standards.

imported_CLSE
04-08-2013, 03:03 PM
With the Ronald Reagan reference, I would guess you are at least in your 30s, since your moniker refers to you as an NCO, I am not sure I get it. It seems that the likelyhood is greater than not that you not only enlisted once but re-enlisted at least once so alluding to your service as a sentence to be completed just doesn't compute. I get that you are not a fan and if you didn't know what you were getting into, I get it but if you signed more than once...you kinda knew what you were in for.

I wish you the best.

I've re-enlisted several times and I actually loved being in the Air Force, Active Duty, Guard and now Reserves, right up until the point that I had a commander who tried to f**k me. The regs were on my side, but all I got in response was "Yeah, your right, but nobody can/will help you".

From that point on, it was me against the Air Force and it took me digging to find the couple of people with the balls to stand and up and call bulls**t.

I'm back into a similar situation for the second time in 5 years. Never had these problems or even heard about them in the first 15 years.

Hell, from what I saw and heard, back then it was pretty much a given that, if you were within a few years of retirement, short of a serious crime, you could expect to make it to retirement.

Now, they are starting to actively try to prevent people from making it to retirement, i.e., trying to kick a guy out at 19 years (what happened to Jack).

During my first fifteen years in the Air Force, I wasn't a blue-kool-aid drinker by any means, but I loved being in and I was proud of the Air Force as a service and proud to be a member of it. I was willing to put the Air Force ahead of a lot of things when it was needed just because I thought it was the right to do.

Now, f**k the Air Force and Air Force leadership. From here on out, I'm here for me, because it benefits me, because of the the mission and the work and the people I support and because I like and respect the people in my unit.

Air Force leadership has made it plainly clear that they going to run this service like a big business and that means f**king their people just like any other big business when it comes to the bottom line.

Have a great Air Force day.

imported_CLSE
04-08-2013, 03:19 PM
People are sometimes surprised when I tell them that I don't care if they don't exceed standards. I don't really care why you joined or what motivates you. You are in it for you, the health care, the school benefits, whatever. If you don't have faith in leadership, that's OK with me. All you have to do is MEET the very minimum standards. If you do that, you will get your check and your Obama phone at 20yrs. What surprises me is that folks can't even agree to that. They want to be angry, in it for them and fail to meet standards.


I can tell you that in my case, I met standards, the standards changed, I busted my ass to try and meet them, but couldn't until I identified a that was causing me problems. Since then, I've been meeting standards.

However, that didn't stop my commander from refusing to re-enlist me - twice - even though I met the standards. It took getting the area defense counsel, the IMA first Sergeant and personnel at AFRC headquarters involved before that got fixed.

I had to go to a new unit and one I checked with told me they'd like to have me and were willing to put me in an overage, right up until I told them I had to do the walk. Then they weren't so interested.

Now I just got put on no-points/no-pay and I'm being threatened with being made non-worldwide qualified all because it's one doc's opinion that people who can't do the run for the PT test shouldn't be worldwide deployable and another doc who, with no medical evidence or history, thinks I could have peripheral artery disease or some other random medical problem, even though I have another, diagnosed and unrelated medical issue.

The fact that I've been deploying for 20 years and haven't had a single duty-related problem from my condition doesn't register with them.

For those of us who have any problems, the PT program has become nothing more than command-sponsored harrassment.

JD2780
04-08-2013, 04:25 PM
I can tell you that in my case, I met standards, the standards changed, I busted my ass to try and meet them, but couldn't until I identified a that was causing me problems. Since then, I've been meeting standards.

However, that didn't stop my commander from refusing to re-enlist me - twice - even though I met the standards. It took getting the area defense counsel, the IMA first Sergeant and personnel at AFRC headquarters involved before that got fixed.

I had to go to a new unit and one I checked with told me they'd like to have me and were willing to put me in an overage, right up until I told them I had to do the walk. Then they weren't so interested.

Now I just got put on no-points/no-pay and I'm being threatened with being made non-worldwide qualified all because it's one doc's opinion that people who can't do the run shouldn't be worldwide deployable and another doc who, with no medical evidence or history, thinks I could have peripheral artery disease or some other random medical problem, even though I have another, diagnosed and unrelated medical issue.

The fact that I've been deploying for 20 years and haven't had a single duty-related problem from my condition doesn't register with them.

For those of us who have any problems, the PT program has become nothing more than command-sponsored harrassment.

If you can't run, you shouldn't be deployable in support of contingency operations.

imported_CLSE
04-08-2013, 04:40 PM
If you can't run, you shouldn't be deployable in support of contingency operations.

I can run, I have a gait problem that limits how far I can run at full speed - the fastest I can do the 1.5 is 14 minutes and I have to do intervals at that pace.

I train doing 3 miles with a 45 pound ruck, I normally do right around 50-55 minutes with a target of 45 minutes before my PT test, I've deployed multiple times, never had an issue, ever, never even an indication that there was a problem.

The gait problem only affects my ability to do the run on the PT test, that's why it took 15 years - when I had to start doing the run again - before it was identified and why I never had a problem prior to that.

The bigger problem is that I have to get a profile every time I test so I can do the walk.

The docs have to explain why people are on the profiles for extended periods and ensure their people are safe, I understand that, but instead of just saying that I have a gait problem and the only way I can pass the PT test is doing the walk and that requires a profile, the docs seem to be more interested in trying to find problems that don't exist.

In the meantime, I can't even show up for drill, let alone deploy and the one doc is talking about restricting me to CONUS-only w/ fixed MTF because of a medical condition that he hasn't even identified or diagnosed me as having.

sandsjames
04-08-2013, 04:45 PM
If you can't run, you shouldn't be deployable in support of contingency operations.

Not being able to run doesn't exempt one from an Air Force deployment. It only exempts you from being able to do an ILO type deployment (unless your career field is an OTW type AFSC). A guy I worked with had a bad back. He'd had several surgeries and has been on a run profile for 6 years now. They boarded him and the decision was that he was perfectly capable of doing his job in an Air Force deployment for our career field. He was retained and will be retiring as a MSgt in a couple of years.

If he's able to do his job in his condition in a contingency operation, by Air Force medical standards, then so are many others who "can't run". This is why the fitness standards we have being related to "fit to fight" at all is a joke.

sandsjames
04-08-2013, 05:22 PM
Why do you do that? I'm no exercise physiologist, but I'm thinking the only result you'll get from that is injured hip/knee/ankle joints from the inordinate stress you're inflicting upon them.

Agree. To pass the run you need to practice the test. When I study for WAPs, I study WAPs material. I don't study material that isn't going to be on the test. Would it help my overall knowledge to study other stuff? Yes. Would it help me pass the test? No.

imported_CLSE
04-08-2013, 05:30 PM
Agree. To pass the run you need to practice the test. When I study for WAPs, I study WAPs material. I don't study material that isn't going to be on the test. Would it help my overall knowledge to study other stuff? Yes. Would it help me pass the test? No.

I can't do the run because of the gait problem - I need some way to increase the cardio stress to build endurance. Since I can't run it, I use the weight and practice doing the walk.

BENDER56
04-08-2013, 05:43 PM
I train doing 3 miles with a 45 pound ruck ...

Why do you do that? I'm no exercise physiologist, but I'm thinking the only result you'll get from that is injured hip/knee/ankle joints from the inordinate stress you're inflicting upon them.

imported_CLSE
04-08-2013, 05:52 PM
Why do you do that? I'm no exercise physiologist, but I'm thinking the only result you'll get from that is injured hip/knee/ankle joints from the inordinate stress you're inflicting upon them.

I'm used to doing it and I don't run with it - jog/fast walk that minimizes the impact and not too much weight.

Yes, if you try to run with a ruck like you do on the track, you'll destroy your knees and ankles in no time at all.

imported_SergeantJack
04-08-2013, 05:54 PM
I have four words for you; North Korea=Stop Loss.

WE HATES YOU BAGGINS! WE HATES YOU FOREVER.

JD2780
04-08-2013, 06:10 PM
Not being able to run doesn't exempt one from an Air Force deployment. It only exempts you from being able to do an ILO type deployment (unless your career field is an OTW type AFSC). A guy I worked with had a bad back. He'd had several surgeries and has been on a run profile for 6 years now. They boarded him and the decision was that he was perfectly capable of doing his job in an Air Force deployment for our career field. He was retained and will be retiring as a MSgt in a couple of years.

If he's able to do his job in his condition in a contingency operation, by Air Force medical standards, then so are many others who "can't run". This is why the fitness standards we have being related to "fit to fight" at all is a joke.

Shit happens on fobs/airbases. If you can't run you shouldn't be deployable. As for clse thing. What is your gait problem? Not spear chucking I'm curious.

JD2780
04-08-2013, 06:11 PM
Why do you do that? I'm no exercise physiologist, but I'm thinking the only result you'll get from that is injured hip/knee/ankle joints from the inordinate stress you're inflicting upon them.

It's certainly can. It jacks us up all the time. It's a requirement for us though.

imported_SergeantJack
04-08-2013, 06:11 PM
To DWWSWSDWDSWD and others,

I got 20 years of employment to the Air Force and gave back a lot more. And you're right; I could have walked away after 14 years, but what kind of retarded ass clown does that when you're 2/3 of the way to the brass ring? No, most people would just tough it out, and that's what I've done.

If it were simply that, I wouldn't be so displeased with the Air Force. They did keep moving the goal posts, and I always struggled to keep up. I didn't have problems outside of the fitness program, but the Air Force has taken these failures and turned it into a character issue, and has attempted to convince me of the same. I have been persona non grata to my chain of command for years, and if you don't think that wears you down, then you're mistaken. They castigated me for my failures as if they were failures in character. They don't represent a small portion of the Air Force that treats people unkindly--they ARE the Air Force. They managed to make me dislike who I am, and for that, I won't forgive them.

I don't begrudge anybody their own successful career. But if 20 years in the service have taught me anything, it's how few things are under my control as an enlisted person. One of those things is my attitude. Another is the fact that I can walk away from, or destroy, all these painful reminders of a painful 20 years. They mean nothing but pain. They represent nothing but a reminder of failure, and missed opportunities. They go in the garbage, because I plan on living the rest of my life free from that.

Regarding my attitude, Big Blue did that to itself. I can't hurt them back for all they've taken from me, but I can be happy to be quit of them. And I will oppose any effort on my kids' part to become a part of that machine. It's poisonous, it's cancerous, and it's not worth it.

imported_CLSE
04-08-2013, 06:18 PM
Shit happens on fobs/airbases. If you can't run you shouldn't be deployable. As for clse thing. What is your gait problem? Not spear chucking I'm curious.

The podiatrist says that when he was watching me run, my feet move like I'm doing a fast walk, not running and that overworks the muscles in my calves.

That causes exertional compartment syndrome, basically, my calve muscles swell up to the point where they start cutting off the circulation in my lower legs, the harder and longer I run, the more they swell up.

It finally explained why I could do sprints and intervals and even long, slow distances but started having problems when I increased both the pace and distance.

JD2780
04-08-2013, 06:25 PM
The podiatrist says that when he was watching me run, my feet move like I'm doing a fast walk, not running and that overworks the muscles in my calves.

That causes exertional compartment syndrome, basically, my calve muscles swell up to the point where they start cutting off the circulation in my lower legs, the harder and longer I run, the more they swell up.

It finally explained why I could do sprints and intervals and even long, slow distances but started having problems when I increased both the pace and distance.

Why is it you can't condition your body to running? Creating the habit of running. For instance, my son walks on hiss toes. This is creating a problem with his calf muscles and hamstrings. We are stretching him and have a device for him to sleep in. Also, he walks around in them. Could you begin jogging shorter distances and force your feet into position until they're conditioned to it? I'm sure the folks that have gone to school for 10 yrs have thought of all of this.

AF2017
04-08-2013, 06:48 PM
To DWWSWSDWDSWD and others,

I got 20 years of employment to the Air Force and gave back a lot more. And you're right; I could have walked away after 14 years, but what kind of retarded ass clown does that when you're 2/3 of the way to the brass ring? No, most people would just tough it out, and that's what I've done.

If it were simply that, I wouldn't be so displeased with the Air Force. They did keep moving the goal posts, and I always struggled to keep up. I didn't have problems outside of the fitness program, but the Air Force has taken these failures and turned it into a character issue, and has attempted to convince me of the same. I have been persona non grata to my chain of command for years, and if you don't think that wears you down, then you're mistaken. They castigated me for my failures as if they were failures in character. They don't represent a small portion of the Air Force that treats people unkindly--they ARE the Air Force. They managed to make me dislike who I am, and for that, I won't forgive them.

I don't begrudge anybody their own successful career. But if 20 years in the service have taught me anything, it's how few things are under my control as an enlisted person. One of those things is my attitude. Another is the fact that I can walk away from, or destroy, all these painful reminders of a painful 20 years. They mean nothing but pain. They represent nothing but a reminder of failure, and missed opportunities. They go in the garbage, because I plan on living the rest of my life free from that.

Regarding my attitude, Big Blue did that to itself. I can't hurt them back for all they've taken from me, but I can be happy to be quit of them. And I will oppose any effort on my kids' part to become a part of that machine. It's poisonous, it's cancerous, and it's not worth it.


Very well put.

imported_CLSE
04-08-2013, 06:59 PM
Why is it you can't condition your body to running? Creating the habit of running. For instance, my son walks on hiss toes. This is creating a problem with his calf muscles and hamstrings. We are stretching him and have a device for him to sleep in. Also, he walks around in them. Could you begin jogging shorter distances and force your feet into position until they're conditioned to it? I'm sure the folks that have gone to school for 10 yrs have thought of all of this.


Honestly, not sure why I can't get it to condition. I've always had a difficult time running, it's just never felt natural. Because of that, I went to Korea about a year and a half after I joined and started carrying a ruck everywhere, including exercising.

Personally, I think 14 years of going everywhere and training with a ruck but never running without one is probably the main problem.

When I took my first PT test in 2008 (the Guard didn't start until then) I had actually been training to take the PAST for TACP, so I had been running regularly and I knew I wasn't fast, but I figured I wouldn't have any problem passing. Then I did 15:30.

The first thing I figured was, like you mentioned, I still needed to work on my form and running habits.

But, after two years of staying away from the ruck, just running and trying everything I and anybody else I talked to could think of, I got 1 and 1/2 minutes off of my time and that was it.

I finally went to the podiatrist because there no reason anybody could find for why I couldn't get my time down.

The podiatrist thinks physical therapy might help, but I'd have to use my insurance and sick leave from my civilian job to do it and while I think it would help, I'm not convinced it would be enough for the test. The only other option is surgery and I won't do that.

JD2780
04-08-2013, 07:02 PM
Honestly, not sure why I can't get it to condition. I've always had a difficult time running, it's just never felt natural. Because of that, I went to Korea about a year and a half after I joined and started carrying a ruck everywhere, including exercising.

Personally, I think 14 years of going everywhere and training with a ruck but never running without one is probably the main problem.

When I took my first PT test in 2008 (the Guard didn't start until then) I had actually been training to take the PAST for TACP, so I had been running regularly and I knew I wasn't fast, but I figured I wouldn't have any problem passing. Then I did 15:30.

The first thing I figured was, like you mentioned, I still needed to work on my form and running habits.

But, after two years of staying away from the ruck, just running and trying everything I and anybody else I talked to could think of, I got 1 and 1/2 minutes off of my time and that was it.

I finally went to the podiatrist because there no reason anybody could find for why I couldn't get my time down.

The podiatrist thinks physical therapy might help, but I'd have to use my insurance and sick leave from my civilian job to do it and while I think it would help, I'm not convinced it would be enough for the test. The only other option is surgery and I won't do that.

Yea the guard is a different animal when you're traditional guard. Also don't feel bad. I'd say a good 25% of TACPs can't pass the PAST. It should be an annual requirement but it isn't unfortunately.

imported_CLSE
04-08-2013, 07:15 PM
Yea the guard is a different animal when you're traditional guard. Also don't feel bad. I'd say a good 25% of TACPs can't pass the PAST. It should be an annual requirement but it isn't unfortunately.

I never actually made it to the unit to take the PAST, my commander wouldn't approve my transfer. Looking at it now, that was for the better, I would have failed because of the leg problem and then would have been stuck having to drive from southern California to Idaho every month until they figured out what to do with me.

OtisRNeedleman
04-08-2013, 07:42 PM
To DWWSWSDWDSWD and others,

I got 20 years of employment to the Air Force and gave back a lot more. And you're right; I could have walked away after 14 years, but what kind of retarded ass clown does that when you're 2/3 of the way to the brass ring? No, most people would just tough it out, and that's what I've done.

If it were simply that, I wouldn't be so displeased with the Air Force. They did keep moving the goal posts, and I always struggled to keep up. I didn't have problems outside of the fitness program, but the Air Force has taken these failures and turned it into a character issue, and has attempted to convince me of the same. I have been persona non grata to my chain of command for years, and if you don't think that wears you down, then you're mistaken. They castigated me for my failures as if they were failures in character. They don't represent a small portion of the Air Force that treats people unkindly--they ARE the Air Force. They managed to make me dislike who I am, and for that, I won't forgive them.

I don't begrudge anybody their own successful career. But if 20 years in the service have taught me anything, it's how few things are under my control as an enlisted person. One of those things is my attitude. Another is the fact that I can walk away from, or destroy, all these painful reminders of a painful 20 years. They mean nothing but pain. They represent nothing but a reminder of failure, and missed opportunities. They go in the garbage, because I plan on living the rest of my life free from that.

Regarding my attitude, Big Blue did that to itself. I can't hurt them back for all they've taken from me, but I can be happy to be quit of them. And I will oppose any effort on my kids' part to become a part of that machine. It's poisonous, it's cancerous, and it's not worth it.

If nothing else, I apologize for the way you've been treated. The character issue is with the people who have hounded you, not with you. Yes, you didn't always pass PT tests, but that doesn't mean you failed as an airman or a human being. You made a difference, you just can't always see where it happened or who was affected by your work.

I would also say that wearing bars or oak leaves on the shoulders doesn't always give you a lot of control over things, either. Yes, commanders do have more control over a number of things, but relatively few officers are commanders at any given time.

Far as discouraging your kids from joining the AF, I can understand. My kids were born into the AF. I neither encouraged nor discouraged them from joining. They didn't join.

I would ask you this, please. Before you trash and burn your AF mementos, wait a year. The time away from active duty will allow you to gain perspective. Getting through 20 years is not failure at all. Raising your kids is not failure, either. You succeeded. Believe me, there are many, many people who wish they could draw a pension at all, much less in your late 30's/early 40's, with outstanding, cheap medical benefits to boot, not to mention the commissary.

The man you see in the mirror is a good man. Give him a break. When you leave on that last day, hold your head high, go with honor, and look forward to the rest of your life. No use being angry and bitter. The AF doesn't care. So don't let that anger rent space in your head.

JD2780
04-08-2013, 07:44 PM
I never actually made it to the unit to take the PAST, my commander wouldn't approve my transfer. Looking at it now, that was for the better, I would have failed because of the leg problem and then would have been stuck having to drive from southern California to Idaho every month until they figured out what to do with me.

Yea that would've sucked. Boise is the shit though

DWWSWWD
04-08-2013, 09:36 PM
To DWWSWSDWDSWD and others,

I got 20 years of employment to the Air Force and gave back a lot more. And you're right; I could have walked away after 14 years, but what kind of retarded ass clown does that when you're 2/3 of the way to the brass ring? No, most people would just tough it out, and that's what I've done.

If it were simply that, I wouldn't be so displeased with the Air Force. They did keep moving the goal posts, and I always struggled to keep up. I didn't have problems outside of the fitness program, but the Air Force has taken these failures and turned it into a character issue, and has attempted to convince me of the same. I have been persona non grata to my chain of command for years, and if you don't think that wears you down, then you're mistaken. They castigated me for my failures as if they were failures in character. They don't represent a small portion of the Air Force that treats people unkindly--they ARE the Air Force. They managed to make me dislike who I am, and for that, I won't forgive them.

I don't begrudge anybody their own successful career. But if 20 years in the service have taught me anything, it's how few things are under my control as an enlisted person. One of those things is my attitude. Another is the fact that I can walk away from, or destroy, all these painful reminders of a painful 20 years. They mean nothing but pain. They represent nothing but a reminder of failure, and missed opportunities. They go in the garbage, because I plan on living the rest of my life free from that.

Regarding my attitude, Big Blue did that to itself. I can't hurt them back for all they've taken from me, but I can be happy to be quit of them. And I will oppose any effort on my kids' part to become a part of that machine. It's poisonous, it's cancerous, and it's not worth it. Jack, you stayed in a place where you didn't fit and you did it for years. I can't imagine having something in my life that made me feel unwanted or substandard. I wouldn't. I've had people in my life to try a belittle me to make themselves look better. A friend of mine says, "they'll blow your candle out to make theirs seem brighter." I cut those people out of my life. If it were a job, I'd leave. Life is too short. I've talked to a few people in your situation, and let them know that they will never reach their potential in an organization that judges your waist size or how fast you can run. I let them know that it will be a miserable xx years to 20 and they may never make it. Then they make a choice, as you did. Thanks for your service, Jack. I think in a year or so, when this fades away and you are settled into a new job, you'll wonder why you didn't get out years ago. I hope that for you, I really do. You'll be happier than you have been in a lot of years and you'll realize that the AF didn't take anything from you that you didn't let them take.

tiredretiredE7
04-08-2013, 09:39 PM
To DWWSWSDWDSWD and others,

I got 20 years of employment to the Air Force and gave back a lot more.

Regarding my attitude, Big Blue did that to itself. I can't hurt them back for all they've taken from me, but I can be happy to be quit of them. And I will oppose any effort on my kids' part to become a part of that machine. It's poisonous, it's cancerous, and it's not worth it.

Jack,

Thank you for not giving up the fight and going to the end. I had a couple of troops like you and I went out of my way to help them through while they worked for me but they were eventually whittled out by PT assessments as soon as other supervisors took them over. I think the comments are a huge indicator of how most NCOs do enough to get themselves promoted and let their subordinates get caught up in the system. Some if the comments blame (managers) you while other comments give you support and motivation (leadership) to assist you in being the best you could be for the AF. Unfortunately most of today's Chiefs are simply managers and refuse to lead the enlisted force under them. PT is a perfect example. Most Chiefs rely on the new AF standard of PT being an individual’s responsibility and use this crutch to get out of leading the enlisted troops in their units who struggle with PT. I don’t understand how any Chief could accept the preventable failure of any enlisted without taking that preventable failure personal at some level. I have recommended against joining the AF to several young people I have met since I retired. I just can't believe some of these forum members are so drunk on BigBlue's KoolAid that they would post some of these comments to you. Good luck to you in all of your future endeavors. The current AF is a huge CF and I am glad I am not part of it. Hopefully General Welsh will correct some of the problems, it is obvious Cheif Cody isn't going to anything.

FLAPS
04-09-2013, 12:44 AM
To DWWSWSDWDSWD and others,

I got 20 years of employment to the Air Force and gave back a lot more. And you're right; I could have walked away after 14 years, but what kind of retarded ass clown does that when you're 2/3 of the way to the brass ring? No, most people would just tough it out, and that's what I've done.

If it were simply that, I wouldn't be so displeased with the Air Force. They did keep moving the goal posts, and I always struggled to keep up. I didn't have problems outside of the fitness program, but the Air Force has taken these failures and turned it into a character issue, and has attempted to convince me of the same. I have been persona non grata to my chain of command for years, and if you don't think that wears you down, then you're mistaken. They castigated me for my failures as if they were failures in character. They don't represent a small portion of the Air Force that treats people unkindly--they ARE the Air Force. They managed to make me dislike who I am, and for that, I won't forgive them.

I don't begrudge anybody their own successful career. But if 20 years in the service have taught me anything, it's how few things are under my control as an enlisted person. One of those things is my attitude. Another is the fact that I can walk away from, or destroy, all these painful reminders of a painful 20 years. They mean nothing but pain. They represent nothing but a reminder of failure, and missed opportunities. They go in the garbage, because I plan on living the rest of my life free from that.

Regarding my attitude, Big Blue did that to itself. I can't hurt them back for all they've taken from me, but I can be happy to be quit of them. And I will oppose any effort on my kids' part to become a part of that machine. It's poisonous, it's cancerous, and it's not worth it.

I've had four outstanding SSgts-MSgts work for me who got taken down by PT. I've told each one that if this was Continental Airlines then I'd give them a pay raise on the spot. Unfortunately, PT has become a condition of employment, and that's a damn shame. The point is, don't ever allow the AF define who you are as a human being. Move on, excel in what you choose to do, and surround yourself with those who appreciate you.

efmbman
04-09-2013, 01:58 AM
Unfortunately, PT has become a condition of employment, and that's a damn shame.

I'm curious about this part. Is this 100% accurate? Or could it also be:

Unfortunately, PT has always been a condition of employment and now it is being enforced, and that's a damn shame. Was there a time when meeting physical fitness requirements was not mandated by regulations in the Air Force?

FLAPS
04-09-2013, 10:16 AM
I'm curious about this part. Is this 100% accurate? Or could it also be:

Unfortunately, PT has always been a condition of employment and now it is being enforced, and that's a damn shame. Was there a time when meeting physical fitness requirements was not mandated by regulations in the Air Force?

Good question. I came in the AF in 1987. I don't remember exactly what the AFR stated, but our requirement was to participate in a mass 1.5 mile run down the runway or around taxiways. If you didn't have a heart attack, then you passed the test. If you did have a heart attack, but managed to get to the finish line, then you passed.

You were required to weigh in, and if you busted your weight limit for your height you went on the fat boy program or had your bodyfat checked at the clinic.

You were also required to "look good" in uniform to the commander making the subjective evaluation.

Up until 2004ish I don't recall anyone getting a referral APR/EPR, losing a stripe or their job over PT...ever!

If we applied today's PT standards back in 1991, then PT alone would have taken care of the mass drawdown following the Gulf Skirmish (so-called war). There were a lot of fat, out of shape people (mostly smokers) back then!

Chief_KO
04-09-2013, 01:42 PM
I enlisted in 1982. PT testing required a scale, stop/start line, stopwatch, & clipboard. An entire unit could be tested in an hour. After testing a pancake breakfast or bbq would follow. Unit PT meant intramural sports along with volleyball or basketball at work. A lot of Airmen wore blues everyday so it was easy for a commander to identify anyone who looked out of shape to place them on the weight management (chunky chicken) program. I knew Airmen who passed the test, but who looked out of shape (military image) who received a "7" on their APR. No referrals, no lost stripe, no discharge.

SomeRandomGuy
04-09-2013, 01:59 PM
Yep. I think my max weight back then was 203. i weighed about 180, which was pretty slim for me at 6'2". I wished I weighed that now. Anywho, because I was within 10% of my max weight, I was on the fat boy program. It seems ridiculous now but I didn't have an internet to bitch on and nobody else wanted to hear about it. I had two good friends kicked out for being overweight. My roommated would sleep in a trash bag and eat chocolate ex-lax before the weigh in.

Too bad you do not have a time machine. You could go back to those days and hang a bulletin board in the hallway. People could stop by and anonymously and write whatever they wanted about the AF. If they wanted, they could even create an anonymous handle for their notes. If other people reading these anonymous notes did not like the message they could leave anonymous comments for the anonymous poster. Based on current events I think a system like this would have been a huge hit back then.

JD2780
04-09-2013, 02:00 PM
We are in the military and should be expected to be physically fit and competent in our specialties. A over emphasis does exist but that doesn't mean its only the AF's fault for people getting booted.

DWWSWWD
04-09-2013, 02:02 PM
Good question. I came in the AF in 1987. I don't remember exactly what the AFR stated, but our requirement was to participate in a mass 1.5 mile run down the runway or around taxiways. If you didn't have a heart attack, then you passed the test. If you did have a heart attack, but managed to get to the finish line, then you passed.

You were required to weigh in, and if you busted your weight limit for your height you went on the fat boy program or had your bodyfat checked at the clinic.

You were also required to "look good" in uniform to the commander making the subjective evaluation.

Up until 2004ish I don't recall anyone getting a referral APR/EPR, losing a stripe or their job over PT...ever!

If we applied today's PT standards back in 1991, then PT alone would have taken care of the mass drawdown following the Gulf Skirmish (so-called war). There were a lot of fat, out of shape people (mostly smokers) back then! Yep. I think my max weight back then was 203. i weighed about 180, which was pretty slim for me at 6'2". I wished I weighed that now. Anywho, because I was within 10% of my max weight, I was on the fat boy program. It seems ridiculous now but I didn't have an internet to bitch on and nobody else wanted to hear about it. I had two good friends kicked out for being overweight. My roommated would sleep in a trash bag and eat chocolate ex-lax before the weigh in.

imported_CLSE
04-09-2013, 02:15 PM
I'm curious about this part. Is this 100% accurate? Or could it also be:

Unfortunately, PT has always been a condition of employment and now it is being enforced, and that's a damn shame. Was there a time when meeting physical fitness requirements was not mandated by regulations in the Air Force?

No, it's not as simple as the PT regs are just now being enforced.

I was actually a big supporter of a new PT test for the Air Force because the bike test was a both wildly inaccurate and a joke.

The problem is, the Air Force, in typical fashion and just like the bike-test, couldn't just simply come up with a PT test like the other services use, they had to one-up everybody else and come up with some complicated, "better" test.

To complicate matters, they let the 5K/marathon crowd take control of the design of the test.

Worst of all, AF leadership decided that integrity was not a necessary component of the test.

First, they took scientifically established standards (the run) and modified them and, despite scientifically verified medical research that contradicted the modified standards and without doing anything to test the accuracy of the modified standards, claimed they were still valid.

Second, they took something that was used as a general guideline in the medical community (Abdominal Circumference) and was not an absolute standard but used as a trigger to start looking more closely at an individual and created a standard for it out of thin air. They then claimed the standard was scientifically verified (which was not true) while there was medical research already published that contradicted the standard and more research has since come out and more firmly contradicts the Air Force standard.

For six years, they held people to those standards while saying that the standards were based on the best information around, then suddenly changed the standards, without addressing the basic lack of scientific validity of either one.

And if you want to best example of the complete lack of validity that these standards have, it is the altitude adjustment.

They had an altitude adjustment for the first six years, then got rid of it in 2010 and claimed that there was no need for an altitude adjustment. Somebody who grew up in a remote village in the mountains of Africa and never stepped foot in a school could tell you this was dead wrong just from personal experience, yet the Air Force stood by that claim for several years, before finally putting the altitude adjustments back in.

People's lives and careers were affected by this and the Air Force lost years of institutional knowledge and experience as a result of this.

If a civilian medical insitution ran a research program like this and tried to present the results for peer review, they'd be the laughing stock of the medical community.

Nobody has ever argued that the Air Force should not have physical fitness standards. What a lot of people have argued is that the standards a) need to be valid, b) they need to be related to what we actually do, not some pie-in-the-sky master-race standard and c) physical fitness standards cannot be the be-all, end-all single standard upon which everybody's career teeters.

SomeRandomGuy
04-09-2013, 02:20 PM
I'm curious about this part. Is this 100% accurate? Or could it also be:

Unfortunately, PT has always been a condition of employment and now it is being enforced, and that's a damn shame. Was there a time when meeting physical fitness requirements was not mandated by regulations in the Air Force?

I went to 7 level with a girl who was a SSgt Air Reserve Technician (I think she was Reserve may have been Guard though). She was telling me that in her office they had a 55 year old TSgt. When I mentioned the "new" PT program she said it was kind of a shame because they were having to boot the 55 year old because she could not pass. She was telling me about in the late 90s or maybe early 2000s their unit simply required the mile and a half run but completely untimed. It was such a joke that the unit even offered to let people do substitute events inestead. She was telling me that most of her unit (including the 55 year old) would simply make a $10 donation to relay for life and perform their mile and half walk. The unit was ok with this and most viewed it as a way to "buy your way out" of the PT test.

I tend to agree that prior to 2004-2006 PT was not being taken seriously in the Air Force. Around this time they began issuing PT uniforms in basic training. That should have been a huge clue for everyone. They also began writing and re-writing the PT regulation. The unit I was part of always had "mandatory" PT but for some reason the only people who ever showed up were SSgt and below. The SNCOs and officers always seemed to be too busy for "mandatory" PT. Eventually word got out to commanders that PT was the new big thing and everyone started showing up for PT. Even at this point I still remember it being at least another year or two before referral EPRs were required. If you think about it there is not anyone who can realistically claim that this whole PT thing was a surprise. Anyone currently being booted would have or should have known by at least 2006 that PT was part of their job requirements. This is 2013 which means those people should have known at least 7 years ago they needed to get in shape. So when you say there are people who have 14-16 years in who are being booted I would say these are the same people who had 7-9 years in when this started and had ample time to get in shape. If they couldn't make the necessary lifestyle changes by now they never will. At this point they are draining valuable resources and are only going to be a burden on any unit they join. They might as well fail the test, take their severance pay and buy an annuity. They will not get as much from any annuity they can buy as they would have from retiring but they at least get something. Time to go find a different line of work where fitness is not a job requirement.

imported_CLSE
04-09-2013, 02:21 PM
I'm curious about this part. Is this 100% accurate? Or could it also be:

Unfortunately, PT has always been a condition of employment and now it is being enforced, and that's a damn shame. Was there a time when meeting physical fitness requirements was not mandated by regulations in the Air Force?

No, it's not as simple as the PT regs are just now being enforced.

I was actually a big supporter of a new PT test for the Air Force because the bike test was a both wildly inaccurate and a joke.

The problem is, the Air Force, in typical fashion and just like the bike-test, couldn't just simply come up with a PT test like the other services use, they had to one-up everybody else and come up with some complicated, "better" test.

To complicate matters, they let the 5K/marathon crowd take control of the design of the test.

Worst of all, AF leadership decided that integrity was not a necessary component of the test.

First, they took scientifically established standards (the run) and modified them and, despite scientifically verified medical research that contradicted the modified standards and without doing anything to test the accuracy of the modified standards, claimed they were still valid.

Second, they took something that was used as a general guideline in the medical community (Abdominal Circumference) and was not an absolute standard but used as a trigger to start looking more closely at an individual and created a standard for it out of thin air. They then claimed the standard was scientifically verified (which was not true) while there was medical research already published that contradicted the standard and more research has since come out and more firmly contradicts the Air Force standard.

For six years, they held people to those standards while saying that the standards were based on the best information around, then suddenly changed the standards, without addressing the basic lack of scientific validity of either one.

And if you want to best example of the complete lack of validity that these standards have, it is the altitude adjustment.

They had an altitude adjustment for the first six years, then got rid of it in 2010 and claimed that there was no need for an altitude adjustment. Somebody who grew up in a remote village in the mountains of Africa and never stepped foot in a school could tell you this was dead wrong just from personal experience, yet the Air Force stood by that claim for several years, before finally putting the altitude adjustments back in.

People's lives and careers were affected by this and the Air Force lost years of institutional knowledge and experience as a result of this.

If a civilian medical insitution ran a research program like this and tried to present the results for peer review, they'd be the laughing stock of the medical community.

Nobody has ever argued that the Air Force should not have physical fitness standards. What a lot of people have argued is that the standards a) need to be valid, b) they need to be related to what we actually do, not some pie-in-the-sky master-race standard and c) physical fitness standards cannot be the be-all, end-all single standard upon which everybody's career teeters.

SomeRandomGuy
04-09-2013, 02:24 PM
Yep. I think my max weight back then was 203. i weighed about 180, which was pretty slim for me at 6'2". I wished I weighed that now. Anywho, because I was within 10% of my max weight, I was on the fat boy program. It seems ridiculous now but I didn't have an internet to bitch on and nobody else wanted to hear about it. I had two good friends kicked out for being overweight. My roommated would sleep in a trash bag and eat chocolate ex-lax before the weigh in.

Too bad you do not have a time machine. You could go back to those days and hang a bulletin board in the hallway. People could stop by and anonymously and write whatever they wanted about the AF. If they wanted, they could even create an anonymous handle for their notes. If other people reading these anonymous notes did not like the message they could leave anonymous comments for the anonymous poster. Based on current events I think a system like this would have been a huge hit back then.

Pullinteeth
04-09-2013, 03:21 PM
You're right, SJ. Standards change all the time. When we re-enlist, we agree to uphold those standards the same as we did when we very first signed up. TR7, I can't stand a victim, I really can't. I'm big on personal responsibility. I don't understand why someone so scorned, would come here every day to share in all things Air Force and then bitch about it. Airmen do get a screwed sometimes, but usually not. Believe me, if an Airman isn't getting a fair shake or if I perceive someone trying to get someplace on the back of someone else, I will use all of my abilities to make it right.

And that is why I got out once upon a time...There was a standard, the standard changed, I was unwilling to comply so I got out...

DWWSWWD
04-09-2013, 03:45 PM
Too bad you do not have a time machine. You could go back to those days and hang a bulletin board in the hallway. People could stop by and anonymously and write whatever they wanted about the AF. If they wanted, they could even create an anonymous handle for their notes. If other people reading these anonymous notes did not like the message they could leave anonymous comments for the anonymous poster. Based on current events I think a system like this would have been a huge hit back then.
We did have something like that. It was called the NCO club. Everyone would go there, drink beer and work out their issues. Like the internet, but in person.

sandsjames
04-09-2013, 03:58 PM
We did have something like that. It was called the NCO club. Everyone would go there, drink beer and work out their issues. Like the internet, but in person.

Beer and smoke pits always make the best aides in hashing out work issues. Maybe that's why stuff is so messed up now, as these things have gone by the wayside.

CrustySMSgt
04-09-2013, 04:00 PM
Because of the comment above, I went & looked up the Army weight standards. I gotta say I'm amazed at their "standard", given the number of fat bodies I see roaming around. At 75" and over 40, my max weight would be 220. I haven't weighed under 220 since the end of my one year remote in Korea 12 years ago. If you bust weight then they do some magical math using your A/C, neck, and height to determine body fat.

It is separate from the PT program, but the consequences of not meeting standards are the same, no promotion, no appointment to key positions...

MACHINE666
04-09-2013, 06:42 PM
To DWWSWSDWDSWD and others,

I got 20 years of employment to the Air Force and gave back a lot more. And you're right; I could have walked away after 14 years, but what kind of retarded ass clown does that when you're 2/3 of the way to the brass ring? No, most people would just tough it out, and that's what I've done.

If it were simply that, I wouldn't be so displeased with the Air Force. They did keep moving the goal posts, and I always struggled to keep up. I didn't have problems outside of the fitness program, but the Air Force has taken these failures and turned it into a character issue, and has attempted to convince me of the same. I have been persona non grata to my chain of command for years, and if you don't think that wears you down, then you're mistaken. They castigated me for my failures as if they were failures in character. They don't represent a small portion of the Air Force that treats people unkindly--they ARE the Air Force. They managed to make me dislike who I am, and for that, I won't forgive them.

I don't begrudge anybody their own successful career. But if 20 years in the service have taught me anything, it's how few things are under my control as an enlisted person. One of those things is my attitude. Another is the fact that I can walk away from, or destroy, all these painful reminders of a painful 20 years. They mean nothing but pain. They represent nothing but a reminder of failure, and missed opportunities. They go in the garbage, because I plan on living the rest of my life free from that.

Regarding my attitude, Big Blue did that to itself. I can't hurt them back for all they've taken from me, but I can be happy to be quit of them. And I will oppose any effort on my kids' part to become a part of that machine. It's poisonous, it's cancerous, and it's not worth it.

*Standing ovation as tears roll down my eyes*

Jack, you know me all too well....I have suffered in the same shoes that you have, so to speak, and I can only cheer you on even that much more for making it across the finish line.

The Air Force IS toxic, cancerous, poisonous, and ultimately detrimental to a person's state of mental health. All the bullshit they want you to believe, and worse, want you to believe it's your fault if you don't measure up to the company idea of what the AFIs have to say.

Well, I say let's put the shoe on the other foot. Who the hell is writing these AFIs? Who decided what "is" and "is not" acceptable? I can tell you that as a GS employee, I get treated 100 times better than I ever did when I was active duty. Nobody in their right mind talks down to me, asks me to do moronic stuff, or insults my intelligence with some Blue Kool-Aid answer. I even put this one Air Force doctor in his place not too long ago, did it without resorting to profanity, and made him look like the pompous ass he truly is in front of everyone, without so much any kind of backlash or recoil.

The whole system is in serious need of an overhaul. We need to ditch rank, titles and entitlement. Parking spaces must go, along with salutes, preferential base housing, and the whole RHIP concept. If contractors can go kill terrorists as hired mercenaries without having to abide by the same weight standards and professional standards we have, and get paid 3 - 5 times the amount of what we do it for, then I say "SCREW 'EM". Gimme that bacon cheeseburger and fries to go!!!

Now go out, enjoy life, and never look back. You made the Air Force a better place by being yourself, and not some stuffy douche NCO.

M

efmbman
04-09-2013, 09:22 PM
Because of the comment above, I went & looked up the Army weight standards. I gotta say I'm amazed at their "standard", given the number of fat bodies I see roaming around. At 75" and over 40, my max weight would be 220. I haven't weighed under 220 since the end of my one year remote in Korea 12 years ago. If you bust weight then they do some magical math using your A/C, neck, and height to determine body fat.

It is separate from the PT program, but the consequences of not meeting standards are the same, no promotion, no appointment to key positions...

Good call, Crusty... and yet there are people in the Army that will cry and complain about busting tape. At this point, it is a lot like urinalysis to me. It is not a new metric - you know damn well you will be tested and weighed twice a year. More often should you be selected to attend an Army school.

I will say that the Army will selectively enforce this. After Desert Storm, I went to Germany and I was amazed at the overweight soldiers in my unit. I asked the First Sergeant about it and for my inquiry I was blessed with the additional duty of Weight Control NCO. As I realized that several of the soldiers had no intent to make their weight, I initiated the paperwork to seperate them. When this was mentioned to my higher headquarters, I was told that once these soldiers were seperated no replacements would be assigned, so it was suggested to drop the issue. Headquarters would still sign off on the separations, however. So I was faced with either seperating soldiers that were not meeting the standards... or ensure that the unit operated below strength.

imported_CLSE
04-09-2013, 10:42 PM
Good call, Crusty... and yet there are people in the Army that will cry and complain about busting tape. At this point, it is a lot like urinalysis to me. It is not a new metric - you know damn well you will be tested and weighed twice a year. More often should you be selected to attend an Army school.

I will say that the Army will selectively enforce this. After Desert Storm, I went to Germany and I was amazed at the overweight soldiers in my unit. I asked the First Sergeant about it and for my inquiry I was blessed with the additional duty of Weight Control NCO. As I realized that several of the soldiers had no intent to make their weight, I initiated the paperwork to seperate them. When this was mentioned to my higher headquarters, I was told that once these soldiers were seperated no replacements would be assigned, so it was suggested to drop the issue. Headquarters would still sign off on the separations, however. So I was faced with either seperating soldiers that were not meeting the standards... or ensure that the unit operated below strength.


The Air Force used the same height/weight standards as the Army before and it was the same routine, if you were over on weight, you got taped. If you were under on tape, you were fine, if you were over, you had problems.

Nobody I knew really had a beef with it because at least you had two ways to measure that accounted for for the fact that not everybody was within in the statistical norm, i.e, it was based on reality.

The current Air Force AC standards are based on somebody's pie-in-the-sky dream of what an airman "should" look like.

It was minor annoyance because I was always over "the" weight, but I'll take that over the system we have now.

efmbman
04-10-2013, 12:39 AM
I forgot to mention that the Army also allowed the Commander to have anyone taped at any time if the Commander thought the soldier was not within standards. What this really meant was that the First Sergeant would whisper to the CO that someone should get taped.

I always said that I could shit-can any Army regulation, it would be the weight control reg. I saw many great soldiers get kicked out for being overweight even if they max their PT test. There was no allowance for genetics either. This put Samoans at a great disadvantage.

DWWSWWD
04-10-2013, 01:00 AM
The Air Force IS toxic, cancerous, poisonous, and ultimately detrimental to a person's state of mental health. All the bullshit they want you to believe, and worse, want you to believe it's your fault if you don't measure up to the company idea of what the AFIs have to say.



Why do you come here?

tiredretiredE7
04-10-2013, 01:06 AM
Why do you come here?

Revenge, for being wronged by the AF. There is some therapy relief as well. I do agree with Jack and Machine666. To disagree is a failure to realize the problem and being part of the problem.

Tak
04-10-2013, 02:48 AM
I guess that's one thing you could do. I've alluded to being wronged in the past. My approach is to move out swiftly. If I have no say in the resolution of the issue, I move out. I may be part of the problem. I believe there are very, very few Airmen that should have 41 inch waists. I believe that almost all Airmen should be able to do 40 or so push-up and sit-ups and should be able to run a mile and half in 14 minutes. I realize there are exceptions. I have fought for these folks and will continue to do so until my cart sits sideways in the aisles of the commissary. It's tough to do anything but generalize because I don't know these internet dudes and you folks don't know me. Most folks would say that I try my hardest to do right by them. I am fully aware that the E-9 that folks speak of..... I am also that guy to some folks because they didn't get the outcome they were hoping for. Maybe it's you.

Come on now chief, don't act like some pushups, situps and run mean anything...
Certainly don't relate to job competence or show character. Just as the
Yearly weighins didn't reflect on job or character either. The difference is back
Then, the med community was part of the solution, not part of the problem like today.
I bet you advocate the bike test and you couldnt understand how people couldn't achieve
A certain VOX score. Come back down to reality chief, we take care of the people all
The way to escorting out the front gate. Join the team and come on in for the big win.

DWWSWWD
04-10-2013, 02:49 AM
Revenge, for being wronged by the AF. There is some therapy relief as well. I do agree with Jack and Machine666. To disagree is a failure to realize the problem and being part of the problem.

I guess that's one thing you could do. I've alluded to being wronged in the past. My approach is to move out swiftly. If I have no say in the resolution of the issue, I move out. I may be part of the problem. I believe there are very, very few Airmen that should have 41 inch waists. I believe that almost all Airmen should be able to do 40 or so push-up and sit-ups and should be able to run a mile and half in 14 minutes. I realize there are exceptions. I have fought for these folks and will continue to do so until my cart sits sideways in the aisles of the commissary. It's tough to do anything but generalize because I don't know these internet dudes and you folks don't know me. Most folks would say that I try my hardest to do right by them. I am fully aware that the E-9 that folks speak of..... I am also that guy to some folks because they didn't get the outcome they were hoping for. Maybe it's you.

tiredretiredE7
04-10-2013, 04:23 AM
I am fully aware that the E-9 that folks speak of..... I am also that guy to some folks because they didn't get the outcome they were hoping for. Maybe it's you.

I achieved my goal of E7. I know that is a failure in your book but I did my time and earned the respect of my subordinates and peers, even some CCs. I know my average E7 skills would be more than most Chiefs of the last 10 years. I realize the Chief has to be the bad guy sometimes; I would like to see some leadership of the enlisted corps along the way. PT is the easy point to start and lead from the front.

DWWSWWD
04-10-2013, 02:03 PM
I achieved my goal of E7. I know that is a failure in your book but I did my time and earned the respect of my subordinates and peers, even some CCs. I know my average E7 skills would be more than most Chiefs of the last 10 years. I realize the Chief has to be the bad guy sometimes; I would like to see some leadership of the enlisted corps along the way. PT is the easy point to start and lead from the front. It is not mathematically possible for everyone to be a Chief. We need Airmen of all ranks to do what we do. One of teammates retired recently. Family and service started pulling in different directions. She was sad and told me that she always wanted to be a Chief. i asked her what that meant to her because that in itself doesn't mean anything to me. Making Chief is an opportunity to do something. Being one is nothing. I told her that she'd done more as a SMSgt than many Chiefs ever will. Another teammated of mine that I respect about as much as any Airman I've ever worked with is an E-7. He'll retire this Summer at HYT. He has had an unbelievable career and certainly a successful one. I don't get hung up on rank, I really don't. It's about the person. To Tak, here's the truth about sit-ups and push-ups..... I don't give a shit, really. If we hadn't got fat, we'd have none of this. We as NCOs failed to take care of business so Dad came up with a plan. Is it ideal? Absolutely not. No one size fits all plan ever is. We've got what we've got and we have to pass it. With a jacked up EPR system that shows everyone walking on water, who are you going to get rid of? I've had a broken neck, a back surgery, heart surgery and am getting ready to have another neck surgery. I have to pass the test and I do, with a 95 last time. I have to work at it every day. If I don't, I'll get shown the door the same as everyone else. Could be I have a little less sympathy for a 22 yr old fattie who is trying to explain to me how big his bones are.

Tak
04-10-2013, 03:19 PM
It is not mathematically possible for everyone to be a Chief. We need Airmen of all ranks to do what we do. One of teammates retired recently. Family and service started pulling in different directions. She was sad and told me that she always wanted to be a Chief. i asked her what that meant to her because that in itself doesn't mean anything to me. Making Chief is an opportunity to do something. Being one is nothing. I told her that she'd done more as a SMSgt than many Chiefs ever will. Another teammated of mine that I respect about as much as any Airman I've ever worked with is an E-7. He'll retire this Summer at HYT. He has had an unbelievable career and certainly a successful one. I don't get hung up on rank, I really don't. It's about the person. To Tak, here's the truth about sit-ups and push-ups..... I don't give a shit, really. If we hadn't got fat, we'd have none of this. We as NCOs failed to take care of business so Dad came up with a plan. Is it ideal? Absolutely not. No one size fits all plan ever is. We've got what we've got and we have to pass it. With a jacked up EPR system that shows everyone walking on water, who are you going to get rid of? I've had a broken neck, a back surgery, heart surgery and am getting ready to have another neck surgery. I have to pass the test and I do, with a 95 last time. I have to work at it every day. If I don't, I'll get shown the door the same as everyone else. Could be I have a little less sympathy for a 22 yr old fattie who is trying to explain to me how big his bones are.

Sad when you have to admit eprs are so bad we pretty much only have pt to go by.

sandsjames
04-10-2013, 03:22 PM
I achieved my goal of E7. I know that is a failure in your book but I did my time and earned the respect of my subordinates and peers, even some CCs. I know my average E7 skills would be more than most Chiefs of the last 10 years. I realize the Chief has to be the bad guy sometimes; I would like to see some leadership of the enlisted corps along the way. PT is the easy point to start and lead from the front.

You're exactly right. The Chief does need to be the bad guy sometimes. He needs to be the one who says "Because I said so!" or "Don't ask stupid questions!" Instead, what we get it "Because this is the best way to further your career" or "The Commander wants it done this way". I don't want a passive agressive Chief. I want a Chief who's going to tell me to STFU and do my job. I want a Chief who's not going to worry about how he's viewed by his troops. This is the same Chief who is going to tell the Commander that it's ok to have beer at the squadron picnic or tell the Commander that we are just too short manned to complete all of the tasks we're being assigned. The "no bullshit" guy is the guy I want leading me. Not the current "I'm your best friend" guy in public and the "I'm gonna screw you behind your back" guy in private.

Man up and do your job.

Tak
04-10-2013, 03:40 PM
I came in 92, first boss retired as a ssgt.
I set my goal to make MSgt by 18 and retire
At 20. I adjusted it as a ssgt, when a boss
Reminded me of final three retirement, so
My goal was wear MSgt before 17, which
I did. Sticking to goals make life easy.
Not doing over 20 was a major goal,
Beyond even if I ever wanted to go beyond
Rank, which I never did.
Talking about rank these days is different,
No one cared about rank when I started because
It was known ssgt was 7/8 years and TSgt up to
15, very few retired as msgts, it was mostly tech,
I know cuz I made ret certs in graphics from 92-06.
Now, these kids are ssgt by 4, TSgt by 7/8 and MSgt
By 12, so making higher before 20 is more feasible.

sandsjames
04-10-2013, 03:47 PM
I achieved my goal of E7. I know that is a failure in your book but I did my time and earned the respect of my subordinates and peers, even some CCs. I know my average E7 skills would be more than most Chiefs of the last 10 years. I realize the Chief has to be the bad guy sometimes; I would like to see some leadership of the enlisted corps along the way. PT is the easy point to start and lead from the front.

You're exactly right. The Chief does need to be the bad guy sometimes. He needs to be the one who says "Because I said so!" or "Don't ask stupid questions!" Instead, what we get it "Because this is the best way to further your career" or "The Commander wants it done this way". I don't want a passive agressive Chief. I want a Chief who's going to tell me to STFU and do my job. I want a Chief who's not going to worry about how he's viewed by his troops. This is the same Chief who is going to tell the Commander that it's ok to have beer at the squadron picnic or tell the Commander that we are just too short manned to complete all of the tasks we're being assigned. The "no bullshit" guy is the guy I want leading me. Not the current "I'm your best friend" guy in public and the "I'm gonna screw you behind your back" guy in private.

Man up and do your job.

Luvnlife
04-10-2013, 04:24 PM
I came in 92, first boss retired as a ssgt.
I set my goal to make MSgt by 18 and retire
At 20. I adjusted it as a ssgt, when a boss
Reminded me of final three retirement, so
My goal was wear MSgt before 17, which
I did. Sticking to goals make life easy.
Not doing over 20 was a major goal,
Beyond even if I ever wanted to go beyond
Rank, which I never did.
Talking about rank these days is different,
No one cared about rank when I started because
It was known ssgt was 7/8 years and TSgt up to
15, very few retired as msgts, it was mostly tech,
I know cuz I made ret certs in graphics from 92-06.
Now, these kids are ssgt by 4, TSgt by 7/8 and MSgt
By 12, so making higher before 20 is more feasible.
I retired as a TSgt. I can remember back when I was an A1C in '90 and looking up to the SSgt's in our unit, they all were either pushing 10 years or more. You actually had to apply yourself to make it. I do remember one fastburner who made TSgt and I think he was at 11 or 12 years.

Not sure why some consider it bad to not retire as a MSgt. My goal when I came in were to do 20 and that's it, I never really cared about what rank I was and it never helped that I am terrible at test taking. I just wanted to work and not have to babysit or spend my time writing EPR's/Decs/1206's.

I really feel sorry for those that have to get another job as soon as they retire because they cant afford to lose the income. I was lucky enough to have planned for my retirement and able to choose to walk away without worrying about finances. I came back to contract work because I wanted too (easy money/stress free work) and just over the past couple of months I've had two retiree's (SMSgt & MSgt) who left the contract but had to immediately look for another job because they cant make it on just their retirement/disability check.

Just put a realistic goal/plan in place and stick to it.

MACHINE666
04-10-2013, 08:42 PM
Revenge, for being wronged by the AF. There is some therapy relief as well. I do agree with Jack and Machine666. To disagree is a failure to realize the problem and being part of the problem.

Precisely, on all parts!

Damn RE-7, I think you're one of the few people who actually pays attention to what people post around here, and better yet, you have the critical thinking skills to see the root cause of people's behavior. Damn, you're scary like that.

imported_SergeantJack
04-10-2013, 09:23 PM
Five weeks from today. I can't wait.

Tak
04-10-2013, 09:36 PM
I retired as a TSgt. I can remember back when I was an A1C in '90 and looking up to the SSgt's in our unit, they all were either pushing 10 years or more. You actually had to apply yourself to make it. I do remember one fastburner who made TSgt and I think he was at 11 or 12 years.

Not sure why some consider it bad to not retire as a MSgt. My goal when I came in were to do 20 and that's it, I never really cared about what rank I was and it never helped that I am terrible at test taking. I just wanted to work and not have to babysit or spend my time writing EPR's/Decs/1206's.

I really feel sorry for those that have to get another job as soon as they retire because they cant afford to lose the income. I was lucky enough to have planned for my retirement and able to choose to walk away without worrying about finances. I came back to contract work because I wanted too (easy money/stress free work) and just over the past couple of months I've had two retiree's (SMSgt & MSgt) who left the contract but had to immediately look for another job because they cant make it on just their retirement/disability check.

Just put a realistic goal/plan in place and stick to it.

Last day of work was Jul 13, 2012...tis nice

imported_SergeantJack
04-10-2013, 10:31 PM
Holy balls, I was wrong! It's five weeks from YESTERDAY! I feel like Christmas came early!!!

FLAPS
04-11-2013, 01:24 AM
Holy balls, I was wrong! It's five weeks from YESTERDAY! I feel like Christmas came early!!!

Retirement ceremony?

JD2780
04-11-2013, 02:07 AM
Last day in uniform was 27 aug 2012. The day of my final out.

Got presented my medal and rudis at joes crap shack. Surrounded by beer, seafood while wearing a beard a tshirt board shorts and flip flops. I loved it.

Tak
04-11-2013, 03:53 AM
a guy on here went to my retirement,
my full and complete speech was and i quote:
"thanks for coming"

F4CrewChick
04-11-2013, 09:47 AM
Last day in uniform was 27 aug 2012. The day of my final out.

Got presented my medal and rudis at joes crap shack. Surrounded by beer, seafood while wearing a beard a tshirt board shorts and flip flops. I loved it.I like Joe's Crap Shack...

Tak
04-11-2013, 03:59 PM
I thought about that, too. Maybe a "fun run". I'll make sure I have my run profile handy so I can kick back and have a beer while the rest of the squadron is running.

retirement cake/refreshments only for those who scored above 90.

imported_SergeantJack
04-11-2013, 04:01 PM
Retirement ceremony?

Hilarious.

sandsjames
04-11-2013, 04:10 PM
Hilarious.

You should. Make everyone show up in full dress. Make it a long drawn out process.

I'm actually thinking of having a slideshow. Not for the purpose of having a slideshow, but in order to insert quotes of AFIs the my commander has "bypassed" over the last year. I'll flip through a couple slides, then one will pop up with a quoted AFI. I'll say "Oops, how did that get in there?" then move on. This will happen a couple times throughout the show. I think it will be kind of fun. The best part is that my family won't realize what it's about, but all the military members will see what's happening, as will the commander.

Tak
04-11-2013, 04:19 PM
retirement uniform of the day: PT gear

Tak
04-11-2013, 04:21 PM
I like Joe's Crap Shack...
your p is upsidedown hun

sandsjames
04-11-2013, 04:21 PM
retirement uniform of the day: PT gear

I thought about that, too. Maybe a "fun run". I'll make sure I have my run profile handy so I can kick back and have a beer while the rest of the squadron is running.

Tak
04-11-2013, 04:23 PM
I thought about that, too. Maybe a "fun run". I'll make sure I have my run profile handy so I can kick back and have a beer while the rest of the squadron is running.

retirement cake/refreshments only for those who scored above 90.

omertalifestyle
04-11-2013, 04:29 PM
I applaud you for making it to 20. I won't be able to get there sadly, and my perspective of the military is forever changed because of that. I recently PCSed too, and the weight of my prior base was lifted, however it came back when I was given my supervisor.....a 5 year TIS SSgt that was still in middle school when I joined....FML.

FLAPS
04-11-2013, 04:36 PM
I'm actually thinking of having a slideshow. Not for the purpose of having a slideshow, but in order to insert quotes of AFIs the my commander has "bypassed" over the last year.

What you should do is film yourself banging the CC's wife, then transition to that 2-5 minutes into your slideshow. Just make sure the slideshow is at the end of the ceremony, just so as you are hauling ass out the door you can still say you "checked that block" on having a ceremony.

Tak
04-11-2013, 04:36 PM
What you should do is film yourself banging the CC's wife, then transition to that 2-5 minutes into your slideshow. Just make sure the slideshow is at the end of the ceremony, just so you can say you "checked that block" on having a ceremony.

nice...ensure its after your retirement effective date

Tak
04-11-2013, 04:37 PM
Book the gym/health and wellness center for ceremony.

JD2780
04-11-2013, 05:19 PM
I like Joe's Crap Shack...

Shut your blasphemous trap. I was going to say c**k holster but that truly doesn't apply. Joe's Crab Shack is delicious. It ain't home but its close!!!

Tak
04-11-2013, 05:24 PM
Shut your blasphemous trap. I was going to say c**k holster but that truly doesn't apply. Joe's Crab Shack is delicious. It ain't home but its close!!!
clam holster perhaps

JD2780
04-11-2013, 05:26 PM
clam holster perhaps

Perhaps. We could also use muff-mouth

imported_CLSE
04-11-2013, 06:03 PM
Hilarious.

Set up a retirement ceremony, get all detailed and grandiose with it, then don't show up.

MACHINE666
04-11-2013, 08:38 PM
Last day in uniform was 27 aug 2012. The day of my final out.

Got presented my medal and rudis at joes crap shack. Surrounded by beer, seafood while wearing a beard a tshirt board shorts and flip flops. I loved it.

I had my retirement ceremony for the douchebags at work (some people insisted that it was 'mandatory'), but then I had the real celebration at Oktoberfest in Munich. I drank a gallon and a half (5 - 6 steins) of lovely Paulaner beer while lasciviously ogling all the hot chicks in their dirndl dresses. Then, when my retirement date officially hit, I spent this past year celebrating in style by going places, going to concerts, and getting laid. I make sure that when I do these kinds of things, I go LARGE!!! Life is too short to skimp on the extras, yah know?
\
:D :D :D :D :D

imported_SergeantJack
04-12-2013, 06:49 PM
I had my retirement ceremony for the douchebags at work (some people insisted that it was 'mandatory'....

SELLOUT!!! :)

I'm sticking to my guns. No retirement ceremony for me. NONE. I won't show up for it. I won't be guilted or bullied into it. My supervisor told me the other day that he didn't know if that was "going to fly" with our new commander, but if they push the issue, I will make them regret it. I'll make them regret it HARD. I have 20 years of pain to formulate into a speech.

JD2780
04-12-2013, 08:38 PM
SELLOUT!!! :)

I'm sticking to my guns. No retirement ceremony for me. NONE. I won't show up for it. I won't be guilted or bullied into it. My supervisor told me the other day that he didn't know if that was "going to fly" with our new commander, but if they push the issue, I will make them regret it. I'll make them regret it HARD. I have 20 years of pain to formulate into a speech.

You could just quote the AFI and bring up how much it'll cost in man hours, and actual cost. Then bring up how they could use the money else where.

Another idea is over do!!! Everybody in blues. Honor Guard, speeches about speeches.

MACHINE666
04-15-2013, 06:10 PM
SELLOUT!!! :)

I'm sticking to my guns. No retirement ceremony for me. NONE. I won't show up for it. I won't be guilted or bullied into it. My supervisor told me the other day that he didn't know if that was "going to fly" with our new commander, but if they push the issue, I will make them regret it. I'll make them regret it HARD. I have 20 years of pain to formulate into a speech.

Pay some homeless guy to wear your Service Dress and pretend to be you! Bonus points if he's drunk or coming down off something....

:D :D :D :D :D

imported_SergeantJack
04-15-2013, 07:09 PM
Pay some homeless guy to wear your Service Dress and pretend to be you! Bonus points if he's drunk or coming down off something....

:D :D :D :D :D


That's a great idea. You wouldn't happen to be in town any time in the next 30 days, would you?

Tak
04-15-2013, 07:28 PM
You will not be missed.

MACHINE666
04-16-2013, 07:28 PM
That's a great idea. You wouldn't happen to be in town any time in the next 30 days, would you?

Provide me the beer and I'll put on a show that would even garner applause from Shakespeare himself!

Or it would get me banned from all military installations for life.

I'm still not quite sure which.


:D :D :D :D :D

Tak
04-16-2013, 07:44 PM
Not everyone who has a retirement is a sellout, I had my dad read my retirement order
And my son pin on my retired pin, each had special meaning, which I didn't
Care if anyone knew. I also included the nco and snco creed in my program, which also meant
Something to me. I forbid the airmen creed and af song. Basically, I'm saying if you
Have one, make it your bytch.

imported_SergeantJack
04-17-2013, 08:25 PM
You will not be missed.

....................Dafuq?

Tak
04-17-2013, 08:28 PM
....................Dafuq?

Just messing...and yes, I love eating ice cream at Dq...

imported_SergeantJack
04-17-2013, 09:09 PM
Oh. Well, screw you, then.

For a second there I was wondering if you were part of my chain of command. The sentiment would fit.

Tak
04-17-2013, 09:53 PM
Oh. Well, screw you, then.

For a second there I was wondering if you were part of my chain of command. The sentiment would fit.

Yeah screw me. The one whose been on your side for years.
Note, I just ate a peanut buster parfait.

imported_SergeantJack
04-18-2013, 03:43 PM
Damn you, Internet! WHY NO U CARRY SARCASTIC EMOTION?!?

You're going to make me resort to using sarcastic emoticons with every post.

Tak
04-18-2013, 03:48 PM
Damn you, Internet! WHY NO U CARRY SARCASTIC EMOTION?!?

You're going to make me resort to using sarcastic emoticons with every post.

I remind people half of what I say is sarcastic, the other half bullshit. :usa2

imported_SergeantJack
04-18-2013, 04:26 PM
Put it together, and it's just bullcastic.

Tak
04-18-2013, 04:27 PM
Put it together, and it's just bullcastic.

May be vagstastic.

imported_SergeantJack
04-19-2013, 06:25 PM
Your mom!!

Tak
04-19-2013, 08:05 PM
Your mom!!

On here, make sure you use the phrase "yo momma"

So we don't have to fight.

imported_SergeantJack
04-22-2013, 04:35 PM
On here, make sure you use the phrase "yo momma"

So we don't have to fight.

Racist!!!!